Christchurch: The Next Day

Written By: - Date published: 10:38 am, March 16th, 2019 - 123 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags: , ,

What we know this morning:

  • 49 people have been killed and many more wounded.
  • Three people are in custody and one will be charged with murder in court this morning.
  • A fourth person arrested was a man in the Linwood mosque who disarmed the terrorist and chased him along Linwood Ave. He has since been released.
  • PM Jacinda Ardern has confirmed our gun laws will change. The terrorist had 5 guns, including two semi automatic weapons. He has a valid NZ gun licence.
  • The attack was live-streamed on Facebook and the video widely circulated. Facebook and other media outlets have been criticised for being slow to act to remove the content.
  • The gunman is an Australian who has lived in NZ on and off. He has left a racist, anti-immigrant manifesto in which he praises mass murderer Anders Breivek and Trump supporter Candace Owens.
  • Solidarity has been shown by world leaders, including the Queen, and Donald Trump, who as usual, showed a complete lack of self awareness, saying a few minutes ago that he didn’t think white supremacy was a rising problem. 
  • Australian Senator Fraser Anning has been condemned for blaming the attack on the Muslim community.
  • Concerts around the country have been cancelled,  as has the third cricket test against Bangladesh.
  • Fundraising for the victims has begun. Over a million dollars has been raised.

I woke up this morning to many messages from friends and family overseas. This attack has shocked the world. One positive feature of the response is that solidarity has been shown from people of all faiths, which suggests the terrorists have instantly failed in their objective to split and divide us.

If you are like me, this morning you’re angry, tearful and confused about how to react. But I know this much; solidarity and aroha will always win.

And all you fascists are bound to lose.

123 comments on “Christchurch: The Next Day ”

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  1. BM 1
    16 March 2019 at 11:04 am

    How can Jacinda Ardern announce that all gun laws are changing?

    Has she got the support of NZ First or National?

    • te reo putake 1.1
      16 March 2019 at 11:11 am

      I imagine she’s already had buy in from the opposition as well as her coalition partners. Bridges is on the same flight to Chch as Ardern this morning. I doubt he’s going to land at the airport and announce National oppose doing something practical to make NZ safer.

    • Sanctuary 1.2
      16 March 2019 at 11:16 am

      Who do you think will vote against it?

      • BM 1.2.1
        16 March 2019 at 11:20 am

        NZ First, maybe National,

        There are over 250,000 gun owners in NZ, they might get a bit angry if politicians want to take away their weapons.

        It’s hard work to get a firearms license these days, lots and lots of background checks, personal interviews with wives, partners, house visits etc.

        I’m more concerned how this guy slipped through the net and wasn’t picked up as an unbalanced nut.

        I don’t own a weapon by the way

        • lprent 1.2.1.1
          16 March 2019 at 11:34 am

          I’m more concerned how this guy slipped through the net and wasn’t picked up as an unbalanced nut.

          All systems can be spoofed. That is just playing with the probabilities – and fails as a strategy when the gun lobby groups eat away at it. Just look at the current strategies that the gun companies have been using in aussie to get around their post-Tasmania shooting.

          Semi-automatic weapons allow even untrained fools to kill and injure a lot people very quickly. If this dickhead had to work a bolt each round, then he’d have been jumped quickly and the weapon taken away from him, as eventually happened.

          The real issue here is that there are semi-automatic weapons available. They just need to be destroyed and not allowed on the market. That is a better way of playing the probabilities with the dickheads. That will reduce any death and injury rates.

          It is also a lot harder to wrangle around a full ban

          • BM 1.2.1.1.1
            16 March 2019 at 11:49 am

            According to someone who read the killers manifesto

            He hopes that his actions and his choice of firearms will cause further firearm restrictions and force firearms owners to take a side noting that they do little to protect the erosion of their rights.

            • arkie 1.2.1.1.1.1
              16 March 2019 at 11:55 am

              Then again, Gun owners might see that it’s a good idea and happily relinquish the semi-automatic guns they own, as happened (after some minor grumbling) in Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.

              Seems likely, as to not give the bastards what they want.

              • Sam …
                16 March 2019 at 1:01 pm

                The $100m funding boost our spy’s got was mostly for infrastructure and hardware which is fine for after the fact. To actually have a readable report in real time you need analyst making those reports. That just leaves a weapons ban as the most likely course of action.

              • Saintarnuad …
                17 March 2019 at 12:20 pm

                Clearly another who doesn’t understand the failure that’s was Howard’s Gun Laws.
                Read the ABS reports for gun crimes in Australia
                Those of the far left just don’t understand attacking law abiding citizens has never worked throughout history.
                Prohibition on guns is fine by the far left, but prohibit drugs that would be against their human rights. How many people are killed and injured on our roads through drivers under the influence of drugs in NZ every year, or how many woman and children subjected to physical violence due to drug use each year. How many drug overdose deaths each year, how many self harm incidents each years induced by drugs, how many psychiatric admissions each year by drugs….and the list goes on

                That’s right, ban guns, not drugs….wake up you stoners

        • Jess NZ 1.2.1.2
          16 March 2019 at 12:37 pm

          Better gun law consultation has already been done – we just need the will to act.

          2017 ‘Police Minister Paula Bennett consulted with independent firearms experts, and accepted seven recommendations, but rejected 12.

          “We needed to strike the right balance between public safety and the rights of legal firearms owners,” Bennett said at the time.’

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/97512128/opportunity-missed-for-nz-to-tighten-gun-control-laws

          and 2016

          ”Police Association president Greg O’Connor also believed a mass shooting was “inevitable”, telling MPs police had noticed a massive increase in the number of firearms among “those who simply should not have them”.

          “We’ve already had mass killings, there are mass killings happening in the United States, we would be naive to think we’re not going to have one here.”‘

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83499342/mass-shooting-in-new-zealand-inevitable-without-action-on-gun-laws-mps-warned

          Australia has benefited from their stand….

          “We have an opportunity in this country not to go down the American path.”

          Those were the words of former Australian Prime Minister John Howard before he radically changed Australia’s gun laws and – many believe – rid the country of gun violence on a large scale.

          You will already be hearing some Kiwis clutching their gun rights. We have to decide which ideals we really follow in NZ. Are we actually clean and green? Are we actually peaceful and safe? Which country do we use as a model for our future?

        • Sabine 1.2.1.3
          16 March 2019 at 4:46 pm

          Hi might just not have been a ‘certified nut’ but rather passed all check and balances had a good laugh at us and our little laws and went on to kill unarmed praying people in a house of worship.

          so yes, maybe in NZ we don’t need semi automatics to go hunting?

        • Ankerrawshark 1.2.1.4
          16 March 2019 at 10:38 pm

          BM not hard enough for this terrorist to get a gun.

          It’s like suicide. The suicide rate dropped dramatically after they changed the lethally of house hold gas.

          We will never prevent all terrorist acts, but we can slow them down but limiting their means………

          Anyway why the hell does anyone need a semi automatic

    • Adrian 1.3
      16 March 2019 at 11:19 am

      She obviously hasn’t got yours. It why you are called a Right Wing Nut Job.

    • left_forward 1.4
      16 March 2019 at 5:33 pm

      Why wouldn’t she have their support?
      You mean there is another legitimate point of view?

    • Saintarnuad 1.5
      17 March 2019 at 11:20 am

      By making some controversial announcement, she is effectively deflecting attention away from the fact the incompetent Government SHE LEADS have failed the NZ people and allowed this event to occur.

      Sure the alleged terrorist pulled the trigger, but it was Ms Photopportnity and the Intelligence and Police she and her responsible Ministers that failed to identify this person as a risk.

      I mean the alleged terrorist didn’t exactly hide his intentions, and had been posting regularly on social media for weeks.

      As taxpayers we pay multi millions annually to our intellegence and Police services, and they can’t even see him when he’s standing in plain view.

      No the Prime Minister failed the NZ people again, she is the boss so the buck stops with her.

      Haven’t heard any talk of her sacking the relevant Government Ministers for Intellegence services or Police for gross neglect…no let’s just blame the guns.

      will she launch a Royal Commission into how this could have occurred, given all the resources at her Governments disposal.

      The PM current verbal flatulence on changing gun laws is nothing more than a smoke screen to press home her Marxist agendas and won’t change a thing for the security of the NZ people.

      I suppose the guns sideshow doesn’t work for her, she could get her spin doctors to trot out more family photos for the woman’s magazines.

      • KJT 1.5.1
        17 March 2019 at 11:27 am

        Wrong target.

        It wasn’t the present Government that opposed sensible gun laws.

        Or who set the spooks onto people that embarrassed them, ordinary citizens computers, and on harmless protesters, instead of terrorists.

        BTW. Present day Labour is less “Marxist” than Muldoon. Unfortunately!

        • Saintarnuad 1.5.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 11:46 am

          Gun laws are just another excuse to deflect attention from her Govenments failures.

          You can put up all the defences you like to protect the PM, as all the gun laws in the world don’t stop terrorists. Just look up the Lindt cafe and Parramatta police HQ murders. Both incidents by Muslim males, both having no firearms licences, both firearms used were illegal.

          Criminals, terrorists etc will always get their hand on illegal firearms

          Changing our national laws only makes 1/5 of our population who are law abiding citizens the scapegoats for the Governments failure to identify this terrorist.

          • joe90 1.5.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 12:48 pm

            the Governments failure to identify this terrorist.

            Domestic terrorists who don’t do stupid things that put them on police/security service radar can’t be stopped by anything other then old fashioned dumb luck. And police and security services can’t track people they’ve never heard of.

            In reality, counter terrorism isn’t like the movies but hey, I’m sure there’s something new over on NetFlix to stroke yourself over.

            • Saintarnuad 1.5.1.1.1.1
              17 March 2019 at 3:20 pm

              Ah Joe90, the catch cry replies from the far left when the truth is too confronting…carry on like a tantric child being rude, abusive & threatening.

              Stay in denial Joe90, it’s much easier for your sort to use hate speech from behind the keyboard than mounting a sound structured rebuttal.

              My apologies for using too many big words you may not understand.

              • solkta …
                17 March 2019 at 3:28 pm

                like a tantric child being rude

                tantric
                adjective

                Relating to or involving the doctrines or principles of the Hindu or Buddhist tantras, in particular the use of mantras, meditation, yoga, and ritual.
                ‘tantric yoga’

                (Oxford)

              • solkta …
                17 March 2019 at 3:31 pm

                My apologies for using too many big words you may not understand.

                Thanks for the laugh.

          • KJT 1.5.1.1.2
            17 March 2019 at 12:50 pm

            What a load of rubbish.

            Look up where the guns used in shootings, in NZ, come from.

        • mauī 1.5.1.2
          17 March 2019 at 12:11 pm

          It wasn’t the present Government either, putting all the terrorism focus onto ISIS and the Middle east, or focusing in on kiwi jihadi brides (not currently living in New Zealand! ) joining ISIS.

          No doubt Saintarnuad is even more outraged at these fairly recent Government failures too… yeah right!

          • Saintarnuad 1.5.1.2.1
            17 March 2019 at 12:25 pm

            Another Jacinta apologist eh Maui???

            She’s been in power heading on for two years, when are you going to stop blaming the previous Government.

            Face it, she’s proven to be a complete dud. There is some talent inside the Labour Party, maybe it’s time they stand up and puss this failed PM aside

      • Incognito 1.5.2
        17 March 2019 at 2:00 pm

        It seems you who is doing all the deflecting attention away from the public glare on our inadequate gun laws that are way too relaxed for our own good and if you think that is a “controversial” statement then it says a lot about you.

        • Saintarnuad 1.5.2.1
          17 March 2019 at 3:26 pm

          Completely incorrect, the present firearms legislation requires review in light of recent events, but not attention seeking knee jerk reactions by a desperate PM whose interests lays deflecting any blame from herself and the Government.

          So you think our PM is not responsible in any way whatsoever for the recent events? Would love to hear your views on how’s she completely blameless

          • Incognito 1.5.2.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 4:43 pm

            … the present firearms legislation requires review in light of recent events …

            Good that you agree with the PM’s announcement on the need to reform NZ gun laws. That is the topic of the thread; anything else is (a) deflection from this.

            • Saintarnuad 1.5.2.1.1.1
              17 March 2019 at 5:02 pm

              Unless Comrade Princess is now backing down and changed her position, Her verbatim quote was “banning”…not review or discussion

              So are you suggesting she’s now changed her position since yesterday?

  2. Adrian 2
    16 March 2019 at 11:16 am

    It’s been a long time since I’ve been this sad, I feel like our country has been cheated and our sense of togetherness has been shattered. It is so unfair that innocent people seeking safety in what should be a safe home in this country have been let down so badly.
    A few puzzles remain, what of the car and people seen driving the gunman away from the Linwood Mosque ? Sure, recall is rarely reliable in such stressful enviroments but still, a few people saw it happen.
    I cannot find a reliable timeline to explain how the arsehole got across central Chch that quickly to strike a second target.
    Which attack came first, and how did the white Subaru get as far as Brougham Sreet after what must have been over 30 minutes since the start of the attack.
    Was it just laziness on behalf of the Police to oppose full scale person and individual gun registration the last time legislation was proposed ?

    • Chris 2.1
      16 March 2019 at 11:40 am

      All the details of what exactly happened will of course be carefully looked at there’ll be conclusions reached and discussions and debate about those conclusions. But as far as why it happened I’m not surprised. It’s interesting the culprits are described as extreme right wing. It’s just a shame that Bridges, Bennett, Collins, Mitchell and their mates don’t have the capacity to ever consider who decides where the line’s drawn.

    • patricia bremner 2.2
      16 March 2019 at 1:50 pm

      Adrian, we all share your sadness and grief.

      We also know some of the grief will move to the anger stage. I think Jacinda has given us a legitimate target for that. These weapons in the wrong hands are lethal. Australia took the opportunity to change their laws after the Port Arthur case, and we could do the same here.

      As to delays in responding, perhaps it was some minutes before the police and responders realised two mosques were involved? It took some time for help to arrive.

      We need to the city to mobilise now to locate the missing three year old, contribute to the fund, reach out to Muslim people with genuine support and aroha, and generally show what we are about. All genuine Kiwis care and feel terrible today.

  3. marty mars 3
    16 March 2019 at 11:29 am

    I hope this helps someone

    “All kids are different. They need different information to feel safe, they look for a different level of detail and they are impacted by different parts of the story. Nobody knows your kids better than you do, so it’s important to manage the conversation based on who they are, what they already know, and what it means for them.”

    https://www.theparentingplace.com/how-to-talk-about/world-trauma/

    • Rapunzel 3.1
      17 March 2019 at 11:43 am

      Thank you for that, only this morning I for some reason realised that probably school children across NZ will turn up for the day and will have varying degrees of understanding or information on what happened in NZ on Friday, but they will hear about it and for some of them it may be the first time they have heard about it.
      I know my daughter’s first inclination was that her son in some way didn’t need to know, or shouldn’t hear about the awful events in Ch Ch, to be fair I think it was an immediate instinct to “protect” her child.
      The weekend has now passed and in case she hasn’t realised herself come tomorrow he will be at school I will be sending her the link to read so she can, if she has not done so, prepare him for what will no doubt be raised at school tomorrow.

      • marty mars 3.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 1:27 pm

        I’m pleased it may help. It is a challenging conversation for us all and especially for the kids.

  4. cleangreen 4
    16 March 2019 at 11:43 am

    This is a clear sign of a changing world now as we begin to have a more libertarian ‘diverse’ population as most overseas first world countries have had for some time and have experienced the same ‘backlash’ from extremists, though most have been historically carried out by Islamic extremists to date as other will obvious evolve.

    This is the price we are about to pay for the dramatic changes in the fabric of our changing culture sadly.

  5. Glenn 5
    16 March 2019 at 11:54 am

    This is currently on the SMH website. From Waleed an Australian.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1106471346303754240

    Certainly well worth while watching

  6. greywarshark 6
    16 March 2019 at 12:08 pm

    How could this happen in NZ? Well as a regular on TS I notice how plugged in to the USA many are, to the extent they hardly discuss NZ at all. There have been many of these shooting accidents over there. When people get obsessed with the USA and their doings it would lead to copycat responses, from the number who are vulnerable to propaganda and outrage, eventually.

    Then I notice that Radionz, and I suppose most news reporting private stations, (though I’m not sure about this), report in great detail every attack in the USA, getting the sheriff, the mothers, the colleagues, the bystanders…opinion in detailed reports during the news slot.

    Then also there is always the reality of our government showing a lack of interest in NZ citizens needs as terrible holes in our welfare system show, there is a constant degradation of workers and low income lifestyles, while they encourage the rise of housing demand and prices beyond ordinary good citizens’ earning capacity to buy. Then they don’t even ensure there are good rental properties sufficient for the resulting demand from people who would once have been settled and in jobs affording them a reasonable living. Then the government has favoured cheap imports in return for export markets so much that the internal business community with jobs for people in NZ has collapsed because it can’t compete with the cheap imports flooding in and unbalancing our country’s financial standing. We live in a giant ponzi scheme, and though many won’t understand that, they see the results.

    And then foreign people get let into the country as refugees. And they get looked after, and get houses. And foreign people are cutting off westerners heads. And it’s not right.

    Blame the foreigners. That is basically the pathway to the atrocity we saw
    yesterday. The bad stuff just keeps coming and builds up and there seems no end and the thought occurs that someone needs to do something, to show how wrong it all is….

    • One Two 6.1
      16 March 2019 at 1:50 pm

      All relevant points , gw…

      The ‘world’ is an abusive environment, governments being prime movers in local and foreign abuse of human, animal, plant…

      Silos nor vacuums lead to global atrocities such as these…

      And as a result, global atrocities will continue on a daily basis…

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 9:35 am

        You emphasise the points I was making OneTwo. It is a given that there will be serious matters happening in the world every moment! That means that we have to have our antennas up to catch the details but must not let ourselves
        ignore our own problems, now and forecast to come, and we know that there
        are big problems scientifically indicated, not just a prophesy like the daily sandwich-boarded man I saw once proclaiming ‘The End is Nigh’.

        So we need to be extra bright, so many don’t want to know – have to be dragged complaining, threatening legal resort, to our truths in NZ. And TS can help by being bright and balanced. What other blog or media gives access to thought and opinion to the extent that TS does? Other blogs should be read and they gather comments, TS offers the fusion political cafe. And we care about our country, lot’s don’t, they skim across the water like those magic waterwalking insects (image below!), or they tramp across the landscape like fleeing herds of buffalo. (And I have read that the drive to flee is to get away from the cloud of stinging insects that arise in their area.)

        We are animals also, with a heightened sense of our own cleverness, that is unjustified. Now that we can observe our mistakes, and our refusal to admit and think about them, we have to use our cleverness to overcome our clever deviousness.
        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CU8gYYkwSw

    • WILD KATIPO 6.2
      17 March 2019 at 9:15 am

      The Eagle has landed – More bloody foreigners – YouTube

  7. georgecom 7
    16 March 2019 at 12:37 pm

    being white, being pakeha, confers zero natural superiority over any other skin colour.
    It grants no natural right or privilege over any other skin colour.
    It grants no higher intelligence or natural ability over any other skin colour.
    It brings with it no basis what so ever to believe in supremacy based on skin colour.

    What it does do however is give rise to a ignorant, deluded, sick cancerous belief within a % of the white/pakeha population that somehow skin colour creates superior rights which justifies violence.

    Being white/pakeha, that deeply offends me. We don’t need that type of vile filth in our gene pool. I look forward to the day when we have purged that fucked up filth out of our DNA.

    • alwyn 7.1
      16 March 2019 at 5:53 pm

      You are limiting your statement far to much.
      Instead of saying that “sick cancerous belief within a % of the white/pakeha population” you should simply say that “sick cancerous belief within a % of the every racial group in the population”
      It isn’t just white people. It is every group of people who will have some percentage who consider themselves to be superior to everyone else.
      It is that we have to change.

      • georgecom 7.1.1
        16 March 2019 at 10:41 pm

        yes Alwyn, every racial group has it. I just happen to be angry and disgusted that this shit exists in my race, white/pakeha.

        The particular piece of trash who perpetrated the terror in Christchurch is a disgrace and abomination to his blood lines. I find ideas of superiority based on race as abhorrent, such ignorant ideas within my own race the worst.

        I am a kiwi and a pakeha kiwi and bloody proud to be one. Any arsehole who comes to my country to shoot my countrymen, whatever race ethnicity or religion they are, in the name of racial supremacy offends the core of who I am and what my country does or should stand for.

        As I feel at the moment, if the solution to purging this rubbish from white pakeha NZ might mean we dilute the pakeha poluation to the extent we are no longer white skinned, well, lets all get busy with inter racial marriage.

        • solkta 7.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 9:27 am

          Talking as if ‘race’ is an actual thing like you do enables these people to hold that one ‘race’ is superior over another.

      • WILD KATIPO 7.1.2
        17 March 2019 at 9:18 am

        100% alwyn.

        End of story.

        Thank you for that pragmatic and balanced opinion. I agree totally.

        • CLEANGREEN 7.1.2.1
          17 March 2019 at 10:04 am

          Me too Wild Katipo.

          Alwyn is right here, as my dear departed mother taught me that “there is good and bad in everyone”.

    • Saintarnuad 7.2
      17 March 2019 at 11:23 am

      and your skin colour is exactly?

    • Lucy 7.3
      17 March 2019 at 11:53 am

      I am as my grandfather said the product of the riff raff of Europe being a mix of English, Irish, Scottish and German but being 5th generation NZ I class myself as Pakeha. I agree that these people who want to keep NZ white offends ME, I do nor feel that my culture translates the best to the Pacific, I prefer to defer to cultures that have been here for 1,000 years and at least 4,000 generations.

  8. arkie 8
    16 March 2019 at 1:28 pm

    What I am concerned with is where we go from here. Once we recover from our grief, do we slide back into being passively a “good” country? To simply “not be racist” when what is required of us is to be outspoken “anti-racists”? I don’t want thoughts and prayers. What I want to see is bold leadership, standing up and uniting in this message: that hate will not be allowed to take root and triumph here. And to then act on that message. I need us all to be courageous and really look inwards at the fears, judgment and complacence we may have allowed into our hearts, and look outward to demand a change in the conversation. And to be that change.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/384852/christchurch-mosque-terror-attacks-a-dark-day-of-grief-shock-and-unspeakable-heartbreak

  9. CHCoff 9
    16 March 2019 at 2:00 pm

    A thorough background check into the idenities of all suspects please, this lunatic stuff could be a hallmark of manchurian candidates.

  10. Poission 10
    16 March 2019 at 2:38 pm

    One shooter,two events .

    One gunman is believed to be responsible for both shootings, police say.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/111313938/live-terror-attack-video-christchurch-mosque-shooting-muslims-new-zealand

    • Saintarnuad 10.1
      17 March 2019 at 3:35 pm

      And you thinks that’s possible?

      If the alleged shooter was responsible for events at both locations, then perhaps he should be recruited at the Commander of the NZSASR instead of being sent to prison.

      This tragic event as being reported in the media just doesn’t seem plausible.

      [Go down this track and your time here will rapidly come to an end. I’ve done the trip from Deans Ave to Linwood many, many times. For a person who has no regard for human life, it is entirely possible to do the drive in the time stated by the police. TRP]

      • solkta 10.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 3:39 pm

        This tragic event as being reported in the media just doesn’t seem plausible.

        That’s as being reported by the Police if you bothered to pay attention.

        • Saintarnuad 10.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 5:16 pm

          It’s actually being reported by the media, the police only release a statement

          If you bothered with attention to detail

          • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 5:22 pm

            Attention to detail. Like “tantric” children and NZ’s “senate”.

          • solkta 10.1.1.1.2
            17 March 2019 at 5:28 pm

            Well since you don’t know how to use a dictionary i’m guessing that google is also beyond your skill set. If you do manage to work out how to use it you can find the relevant press conference by the Police Commissioner.

  11. Rae 11
    16 March 2019 at 2:57 pm

    I wonder if Cantabs will be able to feel so proud of the name of their rugby team still, The Crusaders, though I am kind expecting that thought to fly right over the heads of many.

  12. SPC 12
    16 March 2019 at 3:13 pm

    It would appear the Auatralian was here because of our easier gun laws, he would not have been able to legally acquire them and then train up on them over in Oz. So he came here to buy the weapons and then train on them here – all quite legally.

    Other Australians, including their government, will be aware this is now a threat to their security, not just our own.

    If our gun laws had tightened up in 2017, this person would not have come here.

    It’s the misfortune of those at the Christchurch mosques that he decided to make his attack here, for two reasons maybe – the time and risk acquiring such weapons illegally when back in Oz, and because of the name of the city for his homeland people church vs foreign immigrant mosque attack message.

    • alwyn 12.1
      16 March 2019 at 6:17 pm

      It wasn’t only in 2017 that the opportunity was missed. The first time I remember was in 1990, immediately after the Aramoana tragedy. If Parliament had taken the opportunity immediately to tighten up the laws on the sort of weapon you could own it would have been done.
      The trouble is that neither major party was willing to go it alone and as time went by, and people forgot, the impetus was lost. Both parties realised that there were a lot of one-issue voters in the country and if one party tried to put it through they might lose votes to the other side, even if the other side didn’t oppose the bill but simply sat on the fence.

      The only thing to do is for at least National and Labour to agree immediately on a suitable law. Then put it through on a joint basis without either party trying to claim the credit as their own.
      Winston may, or may not, sound of about it but they should simply ignore him if he does. However do it in a strictly defined way, say a simple ban and buy back of every semi-automatic weapon and pass it. Get it done by the end of the month.

      If that doesn’t happen immediately it probably won’t happen at all, just as it never happened in 1990. It isn’t just old men who forget. the bulk of the public will have forgotten the raw horror of yesterday in only a few months time and all those single-issue gun owning voters will be at the front of all the politicians minds.

      Get it done this month,while you can carry the whole population with you.

      • WILD KATIPO 12.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 9:25 am

        Yes indeed, and again , 100% support.

        However I do not think Winston Peters will have a problem with this. I think you are being a little harsh, perhaps even partisan.

        There are three things need changing:

        1 / Banning all semi automatic sales to the general public.

        2 / Limiting the size of magazines – This , however is of lesser importance if the civilian population is only allowed single shot hunting, sporting and pest eradication equipment.

        3 / Rate of fire. this however will be determined to be moot if number one – banning semi automatics – is successful. Rate of fire was developed in the 19th century to provide a tactical military advantage over an enemy ; Gatling gun.

        There is no place in civilian firearms for military style equipment.

        There is also a fourth , – that of licensing , – then registering individual firearms – and those firearms being directly linked by registration to that licensed firearms user.

        This would cut out the black market sale of firearms to criminal elements.

        • alwyn 12.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 10:03 am

          There are certainly other things about the firearms situation in New Zealand that need looking at.
          However I believe that there is, as of today, pretty general agreement that there is no place at all for semi, or fully, automatic rifles outside the Police and the Armed Services.
          Banning them in the general public’s hands is something that should be done NOW. If that was put forward immediately I believe that the great majority of the public would accept it and the firearm owners who have these things would get little or no support.
          If it becomes a great big investigation into the whole system it will be argued over for years, people will forget the raw horror of this event and nothing will happen.
          We will simply have the whole thing becoming bogged down in discussions about whether, while we are at it, we should discuss whether duck shooting should be banned, or deer stalking or whatever. I’m sure there will be those who will want to ban farmers shooting stock that really do need putting out of their misery and so on.
          The one thing we can do right now is to get rid of semi-automatic military style weapons. Let’s really do it and not, as is the norm, just talk about it.
          The you can worry about the other things.
          I don’t know who said it first but I’m sure you remember the comment “Never let a good crisis go to waste”. Well we have such a chance.

          • I feel love 12.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 10:18 am

            Well said @Alwyn!

          • Saintarnuad 12.1.1.1.2
            17 March 2019 at 3:52 pm

            So bypass democratic processes, consultation and constructive functional lawful outcomes in lieu of dictorial decree.

            Stalin, Hitler, Mao…any of these murderous despots names ring a bell !

            It’s a very slippery slope once you start down the pathway “banning” without due process. Guns today, free speech tomorrow, next thing you know people are off to the gas chambers for simply having an opinion

            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.2.1
              17 March 2019 at 3:57 pm

              If the “due process” involves ministerial regulation already empowered by current laws, your “slippery slope” is simply a flat plain to walk over.

              And if it requires legislative change, this is why “due process” includes things like legislation passed under urgency. So again, no slope.

              But if you have a large enough chip on your shoulder, the lean might make the plain look like a slope, I suppose.

              • Saintarnuad …
                17 March 2019 at 4:20 pm

                Clearly you don’t understand the legal requirements and legislative process of our parliament under democratic Westminster system….neither does our PM who makes big media grab promises while the victims bodies are still warm.

                its really quick sick, turning a tragedy into political opportunism.

                • McFlock …
                  17 March 2019 at 4:40 pm

                  4 Power to declare weapons to be restricted weapons or specially dangerous airguns

                  (1)

                  For the purposes of this Act, the Governor-General may from time to time, by Order in Council, declare—
                  (a)

                  any weapon (including an airgun) to be a restricted weapon; or
                  (b)

                  any airgun to be a specially dangerous airgun.

                  (2)

                  Any Order in Council made under this section may relate to any weapon or airgun specified by its name or trade name, or to any class of weapons or airguns identified by a description of that class.

                  (3)

                  An Order in Council made under this section is a legislative instrument and a disallowable instrument for the purposes of the Legislation Act 2012 and must be presented to the House of Representatives under section 41 of that Act.

                  • Saintarnuad …
                    17 March 2019 at 4:56 pm

                    Like I said, you clearly don’t understand how legislation work.

                    If you had any legislative understanding, you clearly understand the wording of Subsection 3, and the ability of The Queen (via divested powers to the Govener General) can make an Order in Council, however this Does Not become law, and is sent to the House of Representatives for review ( i.e to be discussed in senate voted upon)

                    Unfortunately, our Comrade Princess thinks she has powers, that simply don’t exist.

                • Incognito …
                  17 March 2019 at 4:53 pm

                  The irony is strong in this one!

        • CLEANGREEN 12.1.1.2
          17 March 2019 at 10:07 am

          100% again Wld Katipo.

          Winston is not a racist at all.

          • alwyn 12.1.1.2.1
            17 March 2019 at 10:51 am

            I never said, or implied, that Winston really was a racist. He doesn’t mind appearing to have a bit of a lean that way if he thinks there are any votes in it though.
            However, as someone who will know precisely what the polls are saying about his parties popularity, he might decide that he will become the champion of the gun owners and come out in support of their right to own any sort of weapon they want. They will be, in his view, the salt of New Zealand society and he will be their champion.
            There are, I gather, about 250,000 of them in New Zealand. If there are that many prospective votes available Winston will go to bat for them. Going to bat for the votes that is. Winston doesn’t really give a damn about any person except himself.

            • CLEANGREEN 12.1.1.2.1.1
              17 March 2019 at 1:47 pm

              Alwyn said “if he thinks there are any votes in it”

              Yes that’s politics.

              And it is not only ‘exclusive’ to Winston.

              But every Politician ‘feathers their own nest’ for the future don’t they?

              It’s really ‘all about the money for most politicians’- from what i see.

  13. SPC 13
    16 March 2019 at 3:23 pm

    The terrorist claims his purpose is to provoke a reaction by Moslems which will increase domestic opposition to immigration by Moslems.

    Given Islamists attacks in Europe were/are of a design to foster a sense of oppression of the Moslem community by western governments, his real purpose maybe to provoke a crackdown of social media use by white race groups to drive them underground and or radicalise them. Already there are calls to regard these groups the same as Islamist ones who have been barred from social media.

  14. joe90 14
    16 March 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Just over 50,000 New Zealanders are Muslims.

    1 out of every 1,000 Muslim New Zealanders were killed yesterday.

  15. adam 15
    16 March 2019 at 5:00 pm

    I’ve been tough on this government. But today I’m glad Ardern is PM.

    Yesterday and today our PM has shown real class. In particular her comment in response to the trump and his glib comment about white supremacy not being a growing problem.

    Asked if she agreed with him, she simply said, no.

    • Muttonbird 15.1
      16 March 2019 at 6:20 pm

      +1.

      Can you imagine Simon Bridges mangling the multiple press conferences required?

      • Incognito 15.1.1
        16 March 2019 at 7:25 pm

        I don’t think much of him as the Leader of the Opposition but I do think he would rise to the occasion if he were to leave out the politics unlike the POTUS …

        • alwyn 15.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 11:05 am

          Frankly I think that Simon did well, as did Jacinda. The only thing that does surprise me is that I haven’t heard a word from the Governor-General? Has she said anything on TV which I only watch on very rare occasions?

          The Government does have a problem though in that the DHB doesn’t appear to understand the religious need to get the bodies buried immediately.
          It is a cultural thing of course and the Hospital is naturally concerned for the living rather than the dead but they shouldn’t have been so slow to try and get the bodies back to the relatives.

          Unfortunately it may end up in a slanging match. The relatives are already complaining about the slowness of the process and to most people not of the religion that looks a bit like ingratitude for the Hospital’s work.

      • cleangreen 15.1.2
        16 March 2019 at 10:09 pm

        Bridges has already “burnt his bridges” and is now ‘dead man walking’

    • aom 15.2
      16 March 2019 at 6:54 pm

      The PM provided a diplomatic response to Trump’s disingenuousness. Mia Farrow called him out with less subtlety saying , “As the President of the United States, one of your first acts was to ban Muslims. Your hateful, anti- Muslim, anti refugee words are heard around the world and can inspire the very worst in humans. You are not blameless in this slaughter.”

      • adam 15.2.1
        17 March 2019 at 12:13 am

        Gotta respect Mia Farrow for that.

        • Saintarnuad 15.2.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 4:28 pm

          Really…
          This would be the same MIA Farrow who protected her peado husband while he was having sexual relations with their adopted child.

          Yea, what a bastion of moral fortitude she is !!!

          • McFlock 15.2.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 4:59 pm

            People can be complicated.

            I’m sure you’d be a massive enigma if we ever got to know you.

          • adam 15.2.1.1.2
            17 March 2019 at 5:22 pm

            And trump said he like to have sex with his daughter, so there is that…

    • Ankerrawshark 15.3
      16 March 2019 at 10:45 pm

      Also adam when trump asked Jacinda what could he do she said said reach out to Muslim communities with love and sympathy

  16. WILD KATIPO 16
    16 March 2019 at 5:25 pm

    I want ,… my Prime Minister to enact gun laws against semi automatics and to relegate them only into the hands of our Police and Military.

    I want , our Prime Minister to require all responsible NZ firearms owners who wish to own and train with pistols, carbines and hybrid firearms including semi automatics to use designated and legitimate and NZ Police vetted gun clubs as the only fit and proper place to use , train with and store and retain under safe storage practice the aforementioned arms.

    Automatics and semi automatics have no place in the sporting , hunting or pest control endeavors of the civilian population of New Zealand. They are , by definition, only the preserve of tactical military application and in the case of the NZ Police , a means of suppression of offenders until such time as apprehension.

    I move that all such firearms and their variants and hybrid capacity excepting those used for legitimate hunting or pest control and eradication or used under strict ad vetted sports activity’s be removed from sale and banned for use by the general New Zealand public.

    Blerta – Dance All Around The World – YouTube

    • Saintarnuad 16.1
      17 March 2019 at 4:32 pm

      Can’t work out if your running for office, or just expecting 5,000,000 Kiwi’s to just bow down to your demands because “you want”

  17. left_forward 17
    16 March 2019 at 5:27 pm

    ‘Hey hey Woodie Guthrie I know that you know’d, all the things that I’m [we’re] saying and a million times more.’

  18. Jackel 18
    16 March 2019 at 5:34 pm

    If you think people quietly praying at a mosque in a peaceful country are your enemy, then you have a very long way to go.

    My thoughts and prayers are with those who have had to go through this heartbreaking tragedy.

    • Saintarnuad 18.1
      17 March 2019 at 4:40 pm

      At least you offered “thoughts and prayers” which is more than our PM could offer.

      Our religion hating atheist PM could only offer “thoughts”.

      Yet it’s well noted in today’s media, that our atheist religion hating PM was wrapping herself up in a Muslim headscarf for a photo opportunity with Muslim families.

      So what is it PM, full time atheist unless there is some shallow photo opportunity…pathetic

      • solkta 18.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 4:44 pm

        There is a thing called respect. You might need to use a dictionary as you obviously have no idea of this concept.

        • Saintarnuad 18.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 5:38 pm

          This PM has no respect, just blatant media opportunism.

          And clearly if she understood Islam, she would know that faith regards her lifestyle and morality far more judgementally than other mainstream religions. Moderate followers of Islam would laugh at her as a joke, hard liners however would be considerably more critical in there critique of her donning a religious headscarf.

          Hey, I personally don’t care what her lifestyle choices are, but just don’t insult people with hapless disingenuous gestures for a photo opportunity in front of the media.

          These people has lost family and friends, they need private time to grieve loved ones, not impromptu visits from Comrade Princess with the press gallery in tow.

          • solkta 18.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 5:55 pm

            I think what they need most is love and support. I am really proud that as a country we are providing that and that we have a PM who is actually capable of these things.

      • Incognito 18.1.2
        17 March 2019 at 5:01 pm

        In the darkest night, the stars shine brightest.

  20. Dennis Frank 20
    16 March 2019 at 8:11 pm

    Well, tonight’s tv news was full of coverage of Tarrant and his background. The efforts by a couple of folks here to deter discussion of that due to some criminologist not liking it obviously died a swift death. Grafton, the NSW town he was born in, features the family as a local institution: the camera showed a large sign saying Tarrant Bridge to illustrate this.

    Yesterday’s narrative that he was the product of the Chch skinhead scene evaporated. First, he actually lived in Dunedin, they interviewed his neighbours (who called him friendly). Second, Oz coverage had him growing up there, so the prior report that he grew up here seems wrong. They said he’d travelled to many different countries in the past seven years since his father died. Inheritance explains that lack of need to work.

    Now the cops reckon he was both shooters. No explanation of why the other people were arrested, so we await clarification of Paul Buchanan’s reference to a cell of ten. The cops will check that out in regard to adding the charge of terrorism to murder. Whether his manifesto advocated shooting of muslims is a key question re evidence.

    • Gabby 20.1
      17 March 2019 at 11:17 am

      If info on Shatpant’s background assists in rooting out more terrorists, then fair enough franky. No doubt industrious polce will look closely into the inheritance/funding issue.

    • Saintarnuad 20.2
      17 March 2019 at 11:37 am

      There now appears to be some questions as to whether the alleged shooter has posted the online material himself.

      More questions being raised as to how he could pull this off himself in just over 30 minutes at two seperate locations.

      Christchurch central police station is under a kilometre from the mosque, what was the delay in responding???

      Conflicting Witness statements in the media don’t all marry up with the suspect currently before the courts

      This whole event is really becoming as questionable as it is tragic

  21. Pat 21
    16 March 2019 at 11:39 pm

    Sadly disturbed individuals of all stripes will always be with us BUT if we continue to create the conditions that increase their prevalence we can do nothing but expect increased tragedy.

  22. Strate 22
    17 March 2019 at 7:24 am

    Why no state of emergency or counter-terror measures invoked? Black bag, intern & render anybody remotely connected to the toxic little man. Soldiers should be guarding all public facilities forthwith. Emboldened neo- Nazis are paying $1.10 to go again

    • Brutus Iscariot 22.1
      17 March 2019 at 2:49 pm

      Because that would be simply moronic.

      The best way NZ can react is by living life as we always have, not by becoming a fearful, undignified and reactive nation like the US did after 9/11.

  23. francesca 23
    17 March 2019 at 10:36 am

    As part of our solidarity with our Muslim brothers and sisters we should be insisting on a far more rigorous inquiry into the unlawful killing of Muslims in Afghan villages
    The Hit and Run saga is state sanctioned terrorism

  24. CLEANGREEN 24
    17 March 2019 at 1:18 pm

    From what i have read Brenton Tarrant was from a poor family in Australia where his father was a ‘bin collector’ so he died before his son was to finish school obviously to support his mother and sister, and worked at a fitness coach at the local gym so he had issues then.

    We do know from NZ school admin’s here that the study they made recently showed children need some government assistance to complete school curriculum to get a real career, so he probably was failed here by the system after his father died of asbestos cancer it says in his history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/16/asia/new-zealand-suspect-brenton-tarrant-about-intl/index.html

    Tarrant’s family in Grafton, Australia
    Tarrant’s father, Rodney Tarrant, died of cancer at age 49 in April 2010, according to an obituary The Daily Examiner in Grafton. He was described as a “dedicated family man” and “competitive athlete.” According to the obituary, Tarrant’s father separated from his mother when he was young.
    Tarrant’s family is currently “assisting and cooperating” with investigations from Grafton, nearly 400 miles north of Sydney, local police told CNN.

  25. Brutus Iscariot 25
    17 March 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Apart from the gun control aspect, Australia owns this atrocity as far as I’m concerned. The guy was an Australian citizen, not in the country very long, and not radicalized here.

    Maybe we should be considering our diplomatic relations with them especially in context of their deportation policy towards us.

  26. NZJester 26
    17 March 2019 at 3:22 pm

    This is a copy of a post I also posted as a comment elsewhere and thought it needed to be said here also:
    The so-called Muslims Terrorists who commit Murder are actually just Right-Wing Fascists flying a false flag. The so-called Cristian Terrorists who are committing murder are also Fascists flying a false flag. It is time that the war on Terror is targeted against the true enemy that is these Fascists no matter what false flag they are flying and religious groups they claim to belong to. Arrest all those who facilitate and radicalize all these Fascists.

  27. Muttonbird 27
    17 March 2019 at 5:31 pm

    This Saintarnuad clown seems like another Tarrant in the making.

  28. solkta 28
    18 March 2019 at 12:11 pm

    I’ve just had my dentist’s assistant cancel an appointment because my dentist is in Christchurch to help identify bodies. She is a forensic expert. Such a hideous thought that this is necessary.

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