Crazees and clowns

Written By: - Date published: 9:58 am, April 12th, 2018 - 42 comments
Categories: International, Syria, war - Tags: , ,

So there may or may not have been chemicals deployed against civilians in Douma. And if there was, it may have been done by Tom, Dick, Joe or Harry. Each of us is informed by our own logic, reasoning and sources of information on that one.

But here’s the thing.

Douma is now in the hands of the Syrian government. The last terrorists/rebels/insurgents (you choose which) bused out to Idlib province. The Syrian government has invited the OPCW to inspect the site of the alleged chemical deployment.

And yet all we’re getting is talk of war (because the Syrian population really needs more war) and the US vetoing the Russians vetoing the US at the UN Security Council over the head of it all.

Why not send in inspectors from whichever internationally recognised organisation? Then, on the base of solid evidence (if any such exists) propose or take a next step.

I just wish people who wield immense power; who can consign thousands and thousands of people to misery and death with some half absent gesture or pen stroke would grow the fuck up, and stop cock-a-doodle-dooing all over the show. It’s tiresome. And it’s dangerous.

People in Syria are just like you and just like me. They don’t need their lives (and deaths) dictated by crazees and clowns. What they need is for all the boys with their toys to go back where they came from. What they need is a little space in which to breathe.

Can we do anything that might help give them that? Or is the sum total of us nothing much more than that of clucking hens rushing dutifully towards some big roosters latest screeching and ground scratching?

Sometimes I wonder.

 

42 comments on “Crazees and clowns ”

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  1. Stunned Mullet 1
    12 April 2018 at 10:20 am

    “Sometimes I wonder.”

    Oh I don’t, between the global players Russia and the USA, the regional players Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Syrian groups vying to run the show with the loon Assad on one side and multitudinous loons on t’other one would have to be delusionally optimistic to hope that the poor old Syrian trying to get on with their life has much chance of anything approaching what we would consider normal.

  2. mickysavage 2
    12 April 2018 at 10:35 am

    Agreed Bill. Chances are not good of sainty prevailing. Trump is tweeting about firing missiles and it has been reported that May is organising an urgent Cabinet Meeting to authorise a British response.

    Dark times …

  3. JohnSelway 3
    12 April 2018 at 10:50 am

    I like how Trump supporters before the election were all “Clinton will escalate the war in Syria!”, “Clinton will start a war with Russia” etc etc.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/trump-missiles-tweet/index.html

    I hope it is clear to everyone that no one involved in this conflict gives a fuck about Syrian’s – least of all Trump, Putin, Assad or anyone else for the matter

  4. Ed 4
    12 April 2018 at 10:54 am

    Bill you are a voice of sanity.

  5. dukeofurl 5
    12 April 2018 at 11:00 am

    So True. All the talk about ‘more war’
    What the Syrians would love to have is more peace. Simple really.

  6. timeforacupoftea 6
    12 April 2018 at 11:45 am

    Bill Wrote:
    Can we do anything that might help give them that? Or is the sum total of us nothing much more than that of clucking hens rushing dutifully towards some big roosters latest screeching and ground scratching?

    Yes we can.
    We have 3 outstanding government ministers.
    Send these guys in till Xmas :
    Winston Peters MP
    Marama Davidson MP
    Chlöe Swarbrick MP

    • dukeofurl 6.1
      12 April 2018 at 1:48 pm

      Mitchell seems to have form for being a negotiatermercenary in the ME.

      Trouble is US arms via Turkey and Saudi and UAE money helped grow what was an internal dispute into a full scale war.

  7. dukeofurl 7
    12 April 2018 at 12:00 pm

    In case some are looking for people to punish for using gas, remember this

    British use of poison gas in mesopotaomia ( Iraq) in the early 20s against the Kurds

    The Brits have done well to sanitise the files to say ‘only tear gas’ was used, but theres well documented history of UK military leaders making reports disappear. ( Beatty after WW1 and Montgomery after WW2 in areas unrelated to poison gas)

    British use of poison gas around Archangel, 1919 ( Russia) against the Bolsheviks.
    “British aerial attacks using them began on 27 August 1919, targeting the village of Emtsa, 120 miles south of Archangel. Bolshevik soldiers were seen fleeing in panic as the green chemical gas drifted towards them. Those caught in the cloud vomited blood, then collapsed unconscious.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/sep/01/winston-churchill-shocking-use-chemical-weapons

    And an interesting line about Churchill and his racism I hadnt seen before
    “”People sometimes question why on Earth did people not listen to Churchill’s warnings about Hitler in the late 1930s,” says Charmley, “to which the short answer is that he’d used exactly the same language about Gandhi in the early 1930s.”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29701767

    • Stunned Mullet 7.1
      12 April 2018 at 12:07 pm

      So because the British used gas around 100 years ago (as did a number of countries before it was banned), they’re somehow to blame for the use of chemical weapons in Syria ?

      I don’t believe that kind of approach will do much for the average Syrian.

      • dukeofurl 7.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 1:39 pm

        Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 outlawed the use in war of ‘dangerous chemical agents’. So you are wrong about ‘before it was banned’
        eg the 1899 one
        “Declaration concerning the Prohibition of the Use of Projectiles with the Sole Object to Spread Asphyxiating Poisonous Gases
        This declaration states that, in any war between signatory powers, the parties will abstain from using projectiles “the sole object of which is the diffusion of asphyxiating or deleterious gases.” Ratified by all major powers, except the United States.

        So Churchill wasnt an ‘animal’ and Assad is ?, or is more war the answer to stopping chemical usage in Syria

        • Stunned Mullet 7.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 2:29 pm

          🙄 Churchill and Assad cut from the same cloth that is one of the dafter strawmen I’ve seen.

          • dukeofurl 7.1.1.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 4:28 pm

            Next you will be praising Cecil Rhodes

            Thats Why its pointless to play the blame game.

            You must like being wrong on things. As if Assad is responsible for poison attacks using banned chemicals , so was Churchill for promoting the use of banned chemicals in warfare in what was then Mesopotamia.
            Before that was that triumph , Gallipolli

            • stunned mullet 7.1.1.1.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 4:59 pm

              🙄 Keep up the false equivalences and strawmen you’re on a roll. 😆

              • dukeofurl …
                14 April 2018 at 12:05 pm

                You seem to like to excuse Churchill ( a terrible war leader as his generals said at the time) because
                1) he was european
                2) he was the epitome of privledge
                3) he wrote his own history

                You forget the British people voted him out at the first chance practically before the war in Europe was over. The elections had been cancelled so that 1945 was the first since 1935. ( funny that, we had a mid war election
                that was delayed by 2 years though)

        • Obtrectator 7.1.1.2
          12 April 2018 at 10:34 pm

          Those Hague Conventions aren’t worth the paper they were written on (or the electrons the latest versions are stored as).

          When war comes, all the so-called “rules” sooner or later fly out the window. That’s the nature of war. Always has been, always will be. Anyone relying on the Hague Convention to enforce even semi-decency is deluded beyond hope.

          And bringing the violators to justice years or even decades later does nothing for the victims.

          • Macro 7.1.1.2.1
            12 April 2018 at 10:45 pm

            Except if those who violate the law are on the loosing side – then they will be held to account at some stage.
            On 24 March 2016, former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadžić and the first president of the Republika Srpska, was found guilty of genocide in Srebrenica, war crimes, and crimes against humanity on 10 of the 11 eleven charges in total and sentenced to 40 years’ imprisonment

            • reason 7.1.1.2.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 11:52 pm

              Isn’t it interesting how evidence from the war criminal Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadžić … was used to find Milosovich not guilty.

              The man western media called “the butcher of the Balkens” ,,, was against the killings and war crimes…. http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/milosaid.html

              He was found not guilty after his death in custody.

              The Serbs were certainly demonized

            • Obtrectator 7.1.1.2.1.2
              13 April 2018 at 8:47 am

              There are some warped characters who might regard one of their own men stuck away in jail – not even killed – as a pretty good trade for the 8,000 of their “enemies” done to death in Srbrenica alone.

      • reason 7.1.2
        12 April 2018 at 10:30 pm

        You know the Brits have been involved with gassing people in modern times stunned mullet … Seeing as you moaned about a couple of blunt truths I made in a post which contained info ……. About the Btits being involved with the mass gassing of people in the middle east ….. people much like Syrians …

        “Also the worst use of Nerve Gas / Sarin, in the middle east in modern times, involved the british and u.s.a …. supplying ingredients, technology …. and precise co-ordinates of where to use it on the battlefield …. to their then buddy Saddam Hussein … in his invasion / war against Iran….. which they supported

        They then blocked Iran from justice at the UN ….

        Later when Saddam gassed the Kurds …… the dirty buggers tried to blame Iran … eg blame a victim of their chemical weapon attacks.

        No inhibitions against using gas by the brits or usa…. or Israel for that matter

        http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/

        https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/06/uk.iraq

  8. McFlock 8
    12 April 2018 at 1:13 pm

    Well, going by his previous missile attacks, Trump will take pains to make the most limited response possible – telling them ahead of time where he’s going to attack, that sort of thing.

    May might actually want to do some damage, though.

    • JohnSelway 8.1
      12 April 2018 at 9:20 pm

      “…telling them ahead of time where he’s going to attack, that sort of thing.”

      Like so…?

      • McFlock 8.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 9:34 pm

        Ha I know that scene is based on another movie (East of Eden?), but years ago I was watching one ISTR called “The Bridges of Toko Ri” where they had pretty much that exact conversation, stone cold serious.

        It’s so weird seeing funny scenes and then years later realising that it’s not a standalone routine, but an explicit reference.

        The other one is the “Mongo! Santa Maria!” line from Blazing Saddles. Mongo Santamaria happened to be Mel Brooks’ favourite jazz percussionist, so he called a major character “Mongo” just for a five second pun.

  9. David Mac 9
    12 April 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Yes Bill, when you’ve just lost your legs it doesn’t really matter who fired the missle. So much energy seems to get spent on identifying the perpetrators and formulating retaliation. That sector of Earth have been at each other’s throats for centuries, they need to find their own peace, it can’t be forced upon them.

  10. Siobhan 10
    12 April 2018 at 1:41 pm

    what to make of how all this was predicted a month ago by Chief of Russia’s General Staff Valery Gerasimov who claimed Russia had “reliable information” about militants preparing to falsify a government chemical attack against civilians.

  11. SPC 11
    12 April 2018 at 2:06 pm

    Does it matter whether the government that bombs civilian populated areas by aircarft or helicopter or artillery then crossed another red-line (chemical weapons) or not, it has crossed so many others (as per rules of war) by this point, making an issue of this seems arbitrary.

    It speaks more to keeping alive a just cause for intervention (one reminiscient of the WMD and Iraq – one related to regime deligitimisation). Chemical weapons (and or use of) and of course nuclear weapons proliferation …

    • SPC 11.1
      12 April 2018 at 2:09 pm

      In this instance its just means some sort of military strike – Russia will not fire any air defence missiles, they will receive warning of the target and no valuable assets will be lost and in a few weeks the air base will return to operations. Just like last time.

      • dukeofurl 11.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 4:18 pm

        Nothing like that at all.
        1) Trump has cancelled foreign trip- so not just like last time
        2) Bolton is now in the West Wing- so not just like last time.

        • SPC 11.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 4:54 pm

          Do not be too sure, to go any further would require evidence.

          They seem to want act quickly – to demonstrate that there are international consequences but without too much risk. This limted action done quickly is what to expect.

  12. Ed 12
    12 April 2018 at 5:36 pm

    George Galloway

    There is zero evidence any chemical weapons attack took place in Douma. It is a lie/

    • Stunned Mullet 12.1
      12 April 2018 at 5:39 pm

    • Macro 12.2
      12 April 2018 at 10:03 pm

      The World Health Organization has said an estimated 500 people went to health facilities with “signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals” after the attack on the rebel-held town of Douma in Syria at the weekend.
      http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2018/chemical-attacks-syria/en/

      According to reports from Health Cluster partners, during the shelling of Douma on Saturday, an estimated 500 patients presented to health facilities exhibiting signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals. In particular, there were signs of severe irritation of mucous membranes, respiratory failure and disruption to central nervous systems of those exposed.

      More than 70 people sheltering in basements have reportedly died, with 43 of those deaths related to symptoms consistent with exposure to highly toxic chemicals. Two health facilities were also reportedly affected by these attacks.

      I think I would take an independent international organisation dedicated to the provision of world health who have actual relationships with healthcare workers on the ground, above that of some ex politician living in the UK – no matter whether he was a an ex Labour politician or not

  13. spikeyboy 13
    12 April 2018 at 11:07 pm

    It all depends on who these health partner clusters are. If the WHO are merely repeating claims made by groups such as the White Helmets then the claimed “independence” is really a bit of an open question. And this must really be the case since no “independent” western organisations are able to operate in areas controlled by the likes of Jaish al Islam simply beacause they would not be able to stay alive.
    There was a similar problem with MSF giving legitimacy to White Helmet claims at the time of the liberation of Aleppo.

    https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2016/12/30/truth-a-casualty-neglected-by-medicins-sans-frontieres-msf-in-syria/

  14. reason 14
    12 April 2018 at 11:15 pm

    Reading Marcos quote my immediate thought was ….. who are these “Health Cluster partners”, …. and what a rabbit hole that is . http://www.who.int/health-cluster/partners/current-partners/en/

    A quick look gave me enough USAID connections to give me an uneasy feeling … much like the fear of AIDs https://pando.com/2014/04/08/the-murderous-history-of-usaid-the-us-government-agency-behind-cubas-fake-twitter-clone/

    Lots of very slick websites websites with a white helmets type feel … but no Legatum links I could see ….

  15. mikes 15
    13 April 2018 at 1:22 am

    Most of us probably feel the same way as Bill’s article in regards to war.

    I don’t know if this is close to true or have any data to back it up but I betcha 99.9% (or higher) of the people on the planet don’t want any war, think war is offensive and anti-human; and want their elected (or not) politicians (or dictators,etc) to have nothing to do with any wars.

    It’s only a tiny minority of the worlds population who ‘want’ war, yet there is a perpetual state of war on the planet in many regions. How do the many bring the few to heel though..

    edit – it would have to be 99.999% or higher ..lol. (coz 1/1000th is still 8 million or so warmongers!!

    • David Mac 15.1
      13 April 2018 at 7:52 pm

      Yes when diplomacy fails. The go-to option is to send someone to die on behalf of the failed diplomats.

      The best outcome we can hope for after a war is the same option available prior to the war. ‘Lets sit down and talk about it’