Daily Review 14/10/2016

21 comments on “Daily Review 14/10/2016 ”

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1. Draco T Bastard 1

   14 October 2016 at 5:37 pm

   Tweet: Urban design and loneliness
2. Pasupial 2

   14 October 2016 at 5:53 pm

   Grieving, and giving others grief, often coincide.

   In Kiwi funerals I’ve noticed that people are all stoic decorum at the memorial service and eulogies. But once the formalities are done and the wake begins; there’ll be a dust-up in the carpark. And by the next day; parts of the family won’t be talking to one another for months, if not years, about some possibly imagined slight.

   Perhaps coincidentally, Open Mike today got a bit messy, while other posts stayed civil. If my analogy holds,Tonight’s Daily Review might get a bit heated, especially with people coming home after a work week and having a drink or two. I’m not trying to tell the moderator’s their job, or excuse bad behaviour (or winding people up to provoke such). But perhaps any bannings might be best to be on the low 48hour cooling off side, rather than anything that’ll give too much time for brooding?
   • weka 2.1

     14 October 2016 at 6:37 pm

     I agree about funerals and grief.

     The behaviour today mirrors that of recent times, so personally, I see in a different context.
   • Tory 2.2

     14 October 2016 at 8:35 pm

     In my view, things get “a bit messy” due to inconsistent moderation.
     If you are a RWNJ, getting banned, at times seems to be on a whim and is sometimes ended with “a mouthful” of criticism from the moderator. Yet regular left wing commentators can insinuate sex with goats etc and nothing is said.
     KiwiBlog has minimal moderation, there are regular left wing commentators and at times the debate is “robust” and the odd bit of abuse is tolerated.
     Political blogs need input from all areas, either allow the debate to run or lock it down to registered users only.
     • weka 2.2.1

       14 October 2016 at 8:59 pm

       Often moderation is about patterns of behaviour, either individuals, or what is happening in a discussion. That might not be as visible to commenters as it is to moderators.

       Moderation here will always be inconsistent because working within the Policy is left up to individual moderators. Best thing to do is learn the culture of the place and, if you are here a lot, the idiosyncrasies of individual moderators.

       I don’t see a bias against RW commenters myself, but there probably is due not to moderators not liking the political content, but simply the fact that being a RW commenter here appears to largely involve conflict. A notable example would be someone like Wayne, who sticks to the politics and doesn’t get into the abuse, so he never gets moderated (and you can be sure that there are plenty of moderators who disagree with his actual points). If you want to be rude/abusive, you take your chances as to how that is going to be seen.

       The other thing to remember, and this is important, is that all moderation is done by volunteers and takes more time than you can see from the front end. That influences my moderation and I would guess that of others. I’m more likely to hand out a ban if I’m having to spend too much time trying to explain shit to people as a moderator, especially if they should know better. Wasting a moderator’s time is listed in the Policy.
       • Tory 2.2.1.1

         14 October 2016 at 10:06 pm

         Agreed but conflict is part of the political debate, I have no issues with banning for abuse but let’s also not get sucked into only one point of view.
         It’s easy to post on a daily basis, links to stories that support a point of view but that can easily be refuted by a link arguing the opposite (but then the debate becomes whose link is right and whose is wrong, I.e. 9/11 debate and it’s just not worth the ulcer …).
         I think too much emphasis is given on having to provide “evidence” to an argument rather than debate itself around such things as diverse political ideology.
         Just because a publication like The Canary says something, doesn’t mean it’s right, it’s simply a point of view but some are so dogmatic in their views they can’t (or don’t want to) accept that and then the abuse starts.
         For the record I am not a JK supporter as I think National is Labour in drag, I support ACT…….
         • weka 2.2.1.1.1

           14 October 2016 at 10:29 pm

           I agree, conflict is part of debate, but there are limits to that otherwise it becomes counter productive. Ask some of the authors (and no doubt commenters) who were here in the first few years when the moderation policy was more open.

           I think the rest of your comment is about content, and that’s not really the purview of moderation, except where it causes problems to the thread or community. I have my own views on the debate culture here and the value of linking and how the debate goes, but I think in the end if people can’t make a political response and can only abuse, then there’s a line that’s getting crossed. Moderators are there for when the line gets crossed, not to try and control the conversation so that no-one ever crosses it (much as I’d like to sometimes). I do think that commenters have a fair degree of control over how conversations go, and when I’m a commenter I try to be mindful of that. But yeah, there is a wide range of ideas here about what constitutes good or useful debate. Herding cats come to mind.

           “I think too much emphasis is given on having to provide “evidence” to an argument rather than debate itself around such things as diverse political ideology.”

           Interesting, I hadn’t thought about that. The easiest way around that afaik is to express ideology as a belief or opinion. If people ask for evidence you can then point out that it’s an opinion not a fact, and explain why you think that. However one needs to be genuine in that e.g. not just put “I think” in front of a statement of fact.
     • RedLogix 2.2.2

       14 October 2016 at 10:00 pm

       Yet regular left wing commentators can insinuate sex with goats etc and nothing is said.

       Personally I agree with you. Moderation can be inconsistent, and not being even-handed is one of the ways we do get it wrong more often than any other. At the same time this is a left-wing blog and right wingers will always face a bit of a head wind.
     • Gangnam Style 2.2.3

       15 October 2016 at 5:13 am

       “Wah it’s not fair” – welcome to the real world, but unlike the real world here your privilege accounts for nothing. Switch it off, move to another blog, have some crackers to go with your whine, toughen up & get some guts.
   • marty mars 2.3

     14 October 2016 at 9:11 pm

     As the person asked to cool down today I appreciated the instruction. Sometimes feelings of injustice can be tolerated not expressed. I’m sorry for coming close because I don’t want the moderators dealing with me and it’s rude of me to be so rude – my bad.
     • left for dead 2.3.1

       14 October 2016 at 11:29 pm

       All good marty mars, take care.
3. weka 3

   14 October 2016 at 6:35 pm

   Love the image.
4. b waghorn 4

   14 October 2016 at 6:41 pm

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11729169

   completely non political but too good not to shear, shark cage diving anyone?
   • weka 4.1

     14 October 2016 at 9:03 pm

     that’s intense. Have to say they deserve what they get if that goes wrong, but I guess they know that :-/
5. b waghorn 5

   14 October 2016 at 7:32 pm

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11728903

   another time waster but i’m pretty chuffed that i got it in 20 secs
   • ianmac 5.1

     14 October 2016 at 7:53 pm

     Mine a bit longer. The signs lie mathematically of course.
6. Muttonbird 6

   14 October 2016 at 10:14 pm

   I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary on open mike today, just the usual deranged obsession with a celebrity election in ugly USA.

   Where was the sex with goats? Anyone got a link? Tony, got a link?
   • Gangnam Style 6.1

     15 October 2016 at 5:17 am

     I think they just working on the meme that The Standard is a nasty place unlike that nice Kiwiblog fellow where for some reason right wing views are held in higher esteem.
     • Muttonbird 6.1.1

       15 October 2016 at 9:35 pm

       This kiwiblog?

       I hated Kelly with a passion.

       I despised her, feelings may have verged on hatred when ever I saw her.

       They are great guys, right? These are the comments about a person who fought for those without a voice who and who had just died.

       I half wondered whether David Garrett was angling to steal Helen Kelly’s identity. He’s got form.
   • Pasupial 6.2

     15 October 2016 at 1:40 pm

     Apparently the Tory doesn’t believe in links; “I think too much emphasis is given on having to provide “evidence” to an argument “. Or as Groening said:

     Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!

     Yeah, the USAn election is taking up a lot of space, but it is politically the greatest show on earth. Plus there are always those who’ll stop to watch a train wreck. I’m going to be happy when it’s over (or at least; differently unhappy, which is about all one can hope for these days).
7. Robert Atack 7

   15 October 2016 at 7:12 pm

   RUSSIA DROPS FISH BOMB ON NEW ZEALAND AFTER NZ PRIME MINISTER KEY ATTACKS PRESIDENT PUTIN Thursday, October 13th, 2016
   http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16564
   By John Helmer, Moscow
   The Kremlin has dropped a fish and meat bomb on New Zealand. The casualties are reported to be women, children and the elderly forced to eat food formerly sold to Russia; together with fishermen and farmers whose annual income of US$100 million from exports to Russia has been lost since the start of the Ukraine war.
   After the New Zealand Prime Minister, John Key, attacked Russian policy in Syria and on September 26 issued a public insult to President Vladimir Putin, Moscow reacted with the announcement, nine days later, that New Zealand (NZ) exports of meat and fish may be banned from the Russian market. The NZ media have broadcast the prime minister’s attack on Putin; they are not revealing the Russian reaction. NZ government organs, including the NZ Ambassador to Moscow, Ian Hill, refuse to acknowledge the threatened food ban, or to discuss what is happening.

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