Daily review 21/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 21st, 2023 - 27 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

27 comments on “Daily review 21/09/2023 ”

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  1. Drowsy M. Kram 1
    21 September 2023 at 7:04 pm

    Willis – NZ's would-be next Minister of Finance – Jaysus!

    NZ out of recession, after stronger bounce-back than expected
    [21 Sept 2023, @ 2:08 minutes]
    Forget the numbers, she [Willis] says, it's about the vibe.
    "It feels like a recession, and we can have a big debate about the technical numbers…"

    A “big debate” about "the technical numbers" eh? If only. 'Poor' Nicola can't even show voters her working for the Nat's projected revenue from their 15% foreign buyer tax/hoax.

    50,000 homes open for purchase by foreign home buyers under National's plan

    Huge shortfall in National’s expected foreign buyer tax revenue
    [15 Sept 2023]
    National will be up to 71% short of their expected revenue from their proposed foreign buyer tax, a review by three commentators from across the political spectrum shows.

    Ontario recently increased its “non-resident speculation tax” from 20% to 25%. The Nats could make up some of the shortfall in revenue from their 15% foreign buyer tax/hoax by raising it to 25% – similar to increasing GST to part-fund tax cuts.

    Govt’s 2010 tax cuts costing $2 billion and counting [13 May 2012]
    The Green Party has today revealed that the National Government has so far had to borrow an additional $2 billion dollars to fund their 2010 tax cut package for upper income earners.
    …
    “The National Government said that their signature 2010 income tax cut package would be ‘fiscally neutral’ — paid for increased revenues from raising GST. That hasn’t happened.”
    …
    “National’s poor economic decisions have led to record levels of government debt and borrowing.”

    Fool Kiwis once…

  2. Ad 2
    21 September 2023 at 7:12 pm

    Hey the morans at Fonterra are at it again. They sold their massive Chilean business, and so they get an inflated $1.6 billion annual profit. After this year they go back to ordinary profit, and pulling this country down.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/132979152/fonterra-posts-record-16b-annual-profit-pays-highest-ever-dividend

    But they are so bereft of proposals to actually grow and add value to the business that they are returning capital back to their shareholders. Spare me.

    • bwaghorn 2.1
      21 September 2023 at 8:05 pm

      Must be some none share owner cow cockies that are fizzing given they won't make money this year.

  3. weka 3
    21 September 2023 at 7:30 pm

    So who is meant to pay the tens of millions of dollars for a protozoa filter in one of Queenstown's water treatment plants?

    And if the source of the infection is the lake, doesn't that mean that stopping effluent overflows into the lake from the urban wastewater network will mean additional costs?

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/lack-of-water-treatment-highlights-urgency-of-three-waters-reforms-admits-queenstown-mayor

    • Belladonna 3.1
      21 September 2023 at 7:46 pm

      Given that Queenstown is one of the wealthiest cities in NZ (certainly from the property owning/ratepayer aspect) AND that QLDC actively opposed 3 waters

      https://www.qldc.govt.nz/2021/december-2021/21-12-23-qldc-actively-opposes-three-waters-reform-an-open-letter

      The answer seems to be "the Council/Ratepayers".

      All those businesses who have realized how dependent they are on clean water, will, no doubt, be falling over themselves to contribute to the long term solution. /sarc/

      The ability for wealthy cities/communities to pay for this kind of infrastructure has never really been an issue (their willingness to do so, however, is always a problem). The bigger issue is how poor cities/areas can afford the same level of safety in their infrastructure.

      • weka 3.1.1
        21 September 2023 at 8:10 pm

        so if Queenstown has supported 3 Waters, who would be paying for the upgrades? I thought part of the whole point of 3 Waters was that councils couldn't afford upgrades and the government would help.

        There are certainly a lot of wealthy people in QL, but lots of people who aren't wealthy too (the people working in the supermarket, building houses, cleaning toilets in bars and hotels). Are you suggesting a wealth tax? Or that low income people should be paying for this from a rates increase?

        • Belladonna 3.1.1.1
          21 September 2023 at 8:16 pm

          IIRC, there was no suggestion in 3 Waters that the Government would contribute to the infrastructure costs. Any benefit would come from increased leverage on borrowing (i.e. bigger organizations under the Government umbrella could theoretically get loans at better rates).

          “The Government is proposing four new, large water service delivery entities. Their scale means they would be able to borrow enough to fund the investment needed in water services and infrastructure over the next 30 years. Scale would create operating efficiencies over time, especially in terms of procurement. The larger entities would have more power in the contracting market than 67 disparate councils, and be better able to fund and demand levels of service.”

          https://www.lgnz.co.nz/assets/Three-waters-explained-A3.pdf

        • Belladonna 3.1.1.2
          21 September 2023 at 8:23 pm

          There are certainly a lot of wealthy people in QL, but lots of people who aren't wealthy too (the people working in the supermarket, building houses, cleaning toilets in bars and hotels). Are you suggesting a wealth tax? Or that low income people should be paying for this from a rates increase?

          There are a lot more, even poorer people, in the rest of the district covered by the proposed new water authority – are you suggesting that they should pay for the upgrade in the water supply in Queenstown, the millionaire's paradise?

          Rates, BTW, are a wealth tax. They are a tax on the notional value of an asset (land/improvements) regardless of the income of the owner.

          • weka 3.1.1.2.1
            21 September 2023 at 8:39 pm

            No, I'm just pointing out how stupid the argument is that QL is rich. Unless there is a mechanism for taking excess wealth from very wealthy people, then low income people are going to pay disproportionately.

            Rates aren't a tax on wealth. They're a tax on property. You think landlords won't be putting up rents?

            • weka 3.1.1.2.1.1
              21 September 2023 at 8:40 pm

              I mean, I'm all for QLDC bringing in an actual wealth tax, but hell freezing over and all that.

            • Belladonna 3.1.1.2.1.2
              21 September 2023 at 8:50 pm

              You think landlords won't be putting up rents?

              Why do you think landlords won't put up rents as the result of any wealth tax?

              Most wealth in NZ is in the form of property (indeed our economists frequently bemoan the fact that Kiwis seem to regard property investment as the only good one to engage in).

              So rates are indeed a wealth tax on the largest sector of wealth in NZ.

              If you want to have infrastructure, you have to pay for it somehow. There is no free money tree. If the government were paying for it – then that money would be coming from taxes – primarily income tax – which disproportionately affects the poorest.

              So your infrastructure funding choices are either council rates (local wealth tax) based on the value of your property or government tax (national income tax) based on your income.

              You can pick one or the other, or even a balance between them, but the money has to come from the pockets of Kiwis at some point.

              Even if the Council supplements with a targeted tax on businesses – then the costs will still be passed on to the customers (granted in Q-town this is heavily overseas tourists, but it will still affect the locals (think fixed costs for supermarkets)

    • Ad 3.2
      21 September 2023 at 7:46 pm

      The relevant water treatment items were all in their LTP in outyears.

      QLDC rates went up 14.2% this year.

      Mayor Lewers is in a political quandary since he doesn't have a Wellington Cabinet with more than caretaker capacity to go ask for serious money. Which he needs in days not weeks. And they will shortly hit their debt limits.

      Even if the international tourism press get hold of the story and our tourism economy is dented, it has zero electoral impact.

      The Southland seat which includes Queenstown has a 6,000 majority to Nat Joseph Mooney in 2020 and will blow out in the party vote this year. That will remain even if every single Labour caucus member was personally shovelling sandbags for Gore right now. It's even worse in Waitaki which is its other seat.

    • gsays 3.3
      21 September 2023 at 7:57 pm

      "So who is meant to pay the tens of millions of dollars for a protozoa filter in one of Queenstown's water treatment plants?"

      Logically, those that benefit from having protozoa free water.

      Neo-liberally, those that want to use protozoa free water.

      In a just mindeset, those that introduced or allowed protozoa into the waterways.

      All of which, boils (boom boom) down to the locals.

      • weka 3.3.1
        21 September 2023 at 8:11 pm

        ok, but isn't the point of 3 waters that councils can't afford the upgrades?

        • Belladonna 3.3.1.1
          21 September 2023 at 8:26 pm

          Some Councils can't — some can (and I'd argue that QLDC is one of them). But there have certainly been Councils like Kapiti, who have argued that they've been investing in their water infrastructure all along – and strongly resent having to pay for Wellington (for example) which hasn't.

  4. Anne 4
    21 September 2023 at 7:42 pm

    I'm a little bit suspicious about this latest 'scandal' from TV3's Newshub:.

    The telling sentence:

    The staffers told us they were speaking up because of Halbert's recent complaint about National MP Tim van de Molen bullying him at a Select Committee.

    Northcote is a marginal seat and Shanan Halbert is gay. I don't know him well, but he does not came across to me as a serial bully. There may have been some problem in the past but this sounds like an attempt to turn a molehill into a mountain in order to discredit him a few weeks out from an election. I suspect NAct had a hand in this [possibly] trumped up charge. They have form when it comes to dirty politics.

    Several MPs witnessed the bully boy activity of Tim van de Molen, and Halbert initially tried to sort the misunderstanding directly with him but to no avail.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-labour-s-shanan-halbert-labelled-bully-by-multiple-former-employees.html

    • observer 4.1
      21 September 2023 at 7:51 pm

      For those who don't watch the news on TV, this was the lead story at 6 pm.

      All about an MP who is not a Minister, not a senior figure in the party, not about policy, not about government, current or future. Not about any of the many issues in this election campaign. But broadcast as the lead story only 2 weeks before voting begins.

      So let's call it what it obviously is, a hatchet job. Shame.

      • Anne 4.1.1
        21 September 2023 at 8:18 pm

        And Jenna Lynch is married to Seymour's Chief of Staff. So, you know….

        • Kat 4.1.1.1
          21 September 2023 at 9:28 pm

          Jenna Lynch called Seymour a "low rent" version of Winston in commentary post tonights minor parties debate @1.00.50 mins in.

          Hardly complimentary….

    • Belladonna 4.2
      21 September 2023 at 8:02 pm

      I'd have thought it's a bit late in the piece for a scandal to be deliberately manufactured/broken. Given that Parliament has ended, and electioneering is well underway. I'd be surprised if this has any legs at all as a story.

      It would have been much more effectively timed in May/June this year, as part of the rolling list of Labour ministers being exposed for poor behaviour. Not that Halbert is a Minister, and I think that most of us have only heard of him, because of the Van de Molen incident.

      If you are assuming that gay people can never be bullies – I invite you to take a good hard look at the creative sector. Bad behaviour can be exhibited by all genders/sexual orientations.

      Yes, Northcote is a marginal seat. But Halbert only won in 2020 with the Ardern landslide – so has had little time to cement personal popularity. I think that most commentators have been expecting him to lose, since Labour's popularity started to slide earlier this year. It would almost certainly be unnecessary for a dirty-tricks campaign (which always has the potential to backfire).

  5. Reality 5
    21 September 2023 at 8:30 pm

    The TV3 debate is being well controlled by Rebecca Wright and she firmly challenges when necessary. She is mostly not allowing one or another to dominate. Surprisingly, Marama Davidson is succinct and behaving like an adult. Seymour and Peters are squabbling schoolboys. Seymour is an unpleasant twerp.

  6. ianmac 6
    21 September 2023 at 8:47 pm

    The Newshub debate with the Minor Party Leaders just finished. Much more watchable than the Lab Nat Leaders debate. Biggest loser was Seymour rambled word salad contradictory and mean. Winston 2nd worse rambling and ancient and vague. Winners Marama and Maori Party co-leader (Name?) who complemented each other and were very clear in their progressive view of the World.

    Much more content given with superior control by the compered by the excellent Rebecca Wright. 19/10 JessicaMM 4/10

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-newshub-nation-powerbrokers-debate-live.html

  7. D 7
    21 September 2023 at 9:06 pm

    Yet another labour mp having problems? Is this real then?

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    21 September 2023 at 9:45 pm

    Trotter's essay posted to the Interest website a few days back is a thoughtful take on "where New Zealanders still in possession of a working brain and conscience find themselves struggling, just 26 days out from the General Election of 2023."

    Postmodern readers may need to google conscience to get up with the play. Folks haven't been big on linking conscience to politics for quite some time. Were they ever??

    Good to spot a trend towards acknowledging democracy is failing yet again, as in getting real for a change. The reason it failed in the classical era of civilisation seems multiple really but you can simulate it by blaming human nature if you have a yen for simplicity.

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2023/09/failing-to-hold-back-flood-edgy.html

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