Dutton engages in weaponised brutality
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- Date published:
9:52 am, August 1st, 2019 - 63 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, australian politics, human rights, immigration -
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Australia’s policy of kicking out kiwis who have lived three for decades and set up businesses and families there has been a cause for difficulties in the Anzac relationship for quite a while.
Already there have been about 1,700 kiwis who have been excluded from Australia and their families and jobs and communities and forced to return to New Zealand.
I described the policy in an earlier post in this way:
The Australians are upset with Andrew Little and are throwing Donald Trump type tantrums to show their displeasure.
What has he done to attract their displeasure? He accused the Australian Government of having a deportation policy with what appears to have a venal, political strain.
The policy relates to a 2014 law change which increased the Minister of Immigration’s powers to cancel the visas of Kiwis, including those who have lived in Australia for extended periods of time who who are deemed are not of “good character”.
The change of policy has meant that many kiwis have been thrown into custody, separated from family and removed to a country they may not have any links with.
The cases are numerous but include a 17 year old held in an adult detention centre for non violent offending against International Treaties protecting young people, as well as the case of Ko Hapua and Lee Tepuia, both who were deported because they belonged to motorcycle gangs that were not actually illegal.
Tepuia’s case in particular is jaw dropping. He had lived in Australia since 2005 and his youngest daughter was an Australian. His forcible removal from his wife and four children has had a devastating effect on him.
And he kept winning in Court yet despite this Dutton kept cancelling his visa and not telling him why.
Clearly the policy is a cause of intense frustration and it is affecting Transtasman relationships. So what does the Liberal Government do? Take steps so that tens of thousands and not thousands of Kiwis may be affected.
From Radio New Zealand:
Justice Minister Andrew Little says New Zealand is stuck with Australia’s contentious deportation laws – but the government will continue to raise its objections anyway. Mr Little tackled the thorny subject again during a meeting with the Australian Home Affairs Minister, Peter Dutton, in London overnight. Australia already cancels visas for New Zealand citizens who fail a good character test – even if they’ve lived most of their lives in Australia. They now want the power to cancel the visa of anyone who commits an offence that attracts a two-year jail sentence, even if that sentence is not imposed. Andrew Little says he has raised his concerns about the policies with Mr Dutton again, and with no sign of movement, tension remains high between the two countries.
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Wasn't that how the brits settled Australia?
I think you are all missing the point. This is about debating the issue properly less you fall into the same trap you espouse you hate. Trump emotionalism. Titfortat.
The issue is pretty clear. Australia is treating kiwis the same as it treats other migrants. That's the issue, since the first European colonists criminals, and others, have freely jumped over the ditch and back. It's the radicalists that have pushed media mogals need to sell copy and bungup the democratic processes with distractions. This is the character of our times. Conservative oxymoronic radicalism.
The solution is the law. Does a historical right to free movement between our two countries, now under attack despite the costs to both our economies as communities, families, individuals are burdened with readjustment, a civic tax, is a worthy policy of a supposed party of the economy. When individuals on mass in oz realize they cannot expect economic security when a relative is thrown out, when their businesses are hurt by lost workers, when the real costs and risks on average kiwis are brought home to hurting the Australian economy.
It's precisely, surely, because we are unwilling to debate the reality of rising risks to the rule of law, to economic benefits of free movement of services, of the attack on families that the Australia governing parties, thanks to the lack of media freedom in Aussie. partly due to their electoral system, that blasts you with millions of options and outcomes. but hey stupid economics is the sole preserve of the Tory.
Peter Dutton is one of a very few political figures who I find genuinely frightening; a classic slack-jawed dead-eyed psychopath.
+1
Even though Dutton is a really nasty piece of work, we should bestow permanent NZ Citizenship on him immediately.
Oh what a piece of work is man etc. What a good idea Macro, Barnaby Fudge loved it like a cup of cold sick and I think it would be so appropriate to honour Peter Dutton in such a way. It would be a sort of reverse riposte, very cunning.
(Mod: I forgot ‘w.ke’ is out, will redo while I can edit.)
Dutton does not act alone. He can only do that which the Party instructs or approves.
Totally, Ruperts very happy with the election result also. His outlets were a huge factor and now he wants those pesky cross media ownership laws tinkered as payback.
Dutton does not act alone. He can only do that which the Party instructs or approves.
aka "that which the voters support"
This is a problem alright, and it will likely extend into other areas of the two country’s relations–even “tit for tat” isn’t practicable–not that revenge is a good strategy in any event–far more NZers are resident in Australia than Australians resident here.
Why isn’t tit for tat practicable. I’ve never understood that. Are we so scared we will loose a few Aussie tourists or business opportunities. I’ve always thought we were gutless not treating them the same. The government over there have read the Trump handbook and like it. It doesn’t make them very likeable.
A good idea New Idea. And if all those other countries who have been getting their people returned did the same, what a fuss would be caused. Its not just NZers.
Do we really want to behave badly because they do ?
It's practicable, just not acceptable. The fact that Australia's immigration policy is run by a "slack-jawed, dead-eyed psychopath" (see comment 2 above) isn't a good reason for NZ's to be run the same way.
Not acceptable to you. Is that because you’re a nice guy and want to do the right thing. Set an example to the world. Very noble sentiments but not much use to those affected buy such draconian policies. We are treated like shit by the Aussies, look at the way their referees treat the warriors. Look what arseholes their cricketers have been at times. But we’ll just sit back and take it because we’re morally taking the high ground. We’re never going to change their policies by “bringing up the subject” when the politicians meet. A bit of tit for tat would at least get the media interested.
It'd be an excuse to portray Jacinda as a hypocrite for preaching the politics of kindness, taking the high road, being the better person, etc. and then responding in kind. National would have a field day and what would it really accomplish? I'm reasonably sure Dutton's not likely to change his mind. He seems to derive some perverse pleasure from being an arsehole.
I’m not sure National would be any different mostly because they would scared we might loose some business.
Nations attempting to right a wrong with a like wrong back the other way has a chronic failure rate.
It is the simple, knee jerk anticipated reaction destined to end in tears for all.
I think we'd be better off studying the great diplomatic wins over the centuries. To react in kind solves nothing, it doubles the woes.
Not acceptable to you.
Not acceptable to anyone who understands the concept of fairness, or even just understands that cruelty by others isn't an excuse for cruelty by us. I'd hope that that's the great majority of people, but right-wingers often do seem to have a highly-compromised set of ethical standards.
PM I think you may find some left wing supporters would happily duck the Aussie punch and return it with a left jab. You seem to be promoting the old lefties are nice and righties are immoral idea. Don’t mind me I’m a righty who happens to be fairly abrasive. I’m sure there are some nice ones, just as there will be rat bag lefties around as well. You stick to being fair. I’m sure it will show in your comments so I’ll remind you if you slip up. 🤭
I don't think it's a left/right thing New view. It's a reflection of how we go about living with others.
Those that don't respond by lashing out in response to a lash out might also have their hearts set on revenge. A revenge that has the perpetrator deciding to alter their form all by themselves.
That's the only kind of win that counts. Forcing someone to behave in a particular way is always a hollow short lived victory.
Fair enough David but to my mind retaliation isn’t lashing out. We’ve suffered this bullshit for years. Aussies happily come here and enjoy our social benefits and in return we have to become an Australian citizen to get the same. NZERS living in Aus get treated like shit in the same way. There’s nothing knee jerk about my thought process. They’ve treated us like crap for years.
100% new view
Cos they've got begger tats noovoo. We could have special property ownership laws for our special neighbours though.
Do you really think we wouldn't have had a revolution (in the hang the bosses from lamp posts, shoot the priests and turn the churches into palaces of culture kind) if the victims of our low wage, de-unionised economic experiment of the last thirty years had been forced to stay in NZ, rather than exported en-mass to Australia? The free flow of trans Tasman labour is NZ's safety valve for incompetent economic management because it allows us to export our unemployed during a recession, instead of them staying here and imposing crippling unemployment benefit costs and agitating against our boss class. The idea we might lose this safety valve scares the boss class and our political elites shitless.
Interesting perspective! Trouble is we also export all our expensively trained professionals as well – not that Australia wants to send them back, of course!
This is so not surprising
It is as Australian as it comes
They are not particularly pleasant people.
You could obtain licences to hunt and kill aboriginal people up until the 1930's
We have little to nothing in common with them and should begin distancing ourselves from this horrible nation
Oh FFS, how can you draw any parallels between what happened to the aborigines and the deportation of thugs, rapists, and murderers.
That sort of false equivalence is downright insulting to people who truly suffered from colonisation
Oh FFS how can you believe the propaganda that all the people are criminals of the worst kind….Mark. Is that par for you, can't stir the fairness synapse – broken?
You forgot to add "some of them are good people". Otherwise it was a very good impersonation.
Perhaps we ought to tell the airlines we won't accept these people, and any attempt to land them on our shores will incur an enormous fine.
Then they'll have little choice but refuse to allow them board, much to the apoplexy of the Australians.
Of course the airlines will be the meat in the sandwich, but hey – who cares.
Its wrong to exclude our own citizens from their own country.
Hit them where it hurts. Nationalise their Banks.
Australians are like us. We're quick to associate Outlaw motorcycle gangs and powder narcotics. I'd like to know how many of the deportees are affiliated with bike gangs. It appears to be the common denominator. I think Dutton has been charged with window dressing the 'War on Meth' shop-front. Just like here, few families have not had an unfortunate experience with meth, ice, speed etc. Deporting outlaw Kiwi bikers and anyone that shares a beer with them is a soft target vote winner.
Heckuva job Jacinda, going over there and insulting them in front of cameras really worked.
The world like Jacinda because she wears her heart on her sleeve. If she expressed anything but discomfort with the current status quo she would be lying.
Yep, it's a vote winner. Not because our Prime Minister shares how she really feels but because the media and their consumers love a bashed face on the front page and a "Another scumbag never to set foot in Aussie ever again." headline.
That her performance was great for her own polling back in NZ will be reassuring for the Kiwis impacted by Australia's immigration policies. Not only the "bad character" Kiwis getting deported to a country they don't know but also those perfectly law-abiding Kiwis working in Australia who are denied government support.
National's peddling a bizarre fantasy in which Gauleiter Dutton would be kinder to NZ-born Australians if only Jacinda Ardern were better at sucking up to him. Anyone who's heard Dutton talking about the people he's "othered" knows how ridiculously unreal that idea is. It would be comical if it weren't fucking up people's lives.
a vote winner huh? She still can’t lead her party to lead National in the polling and we have bridges ffs.
Well, not in Colmar Brunton's polling, at least. She's got her party leading National comfortably in the Reid Research and UMR polls.
You think it made a difference shggy?
Doubling down on an already inhumane policy that is already causing intense disruption to your closest neighbour suggests an extreme amount of hubris.
And every time the policy gets stricter, support for it goes up.
'Inhumane' my ass.
New Zealanders are generally for deporting foreigners who commit crimes here.
Bloody hypocritical for criticizing Australia for what they are doing —they have every right to kick out people who are criminals or on the path to criminality.
Retrospective legislation markymarky, very difficult to comply with laws that don't yet exist.
Of course it is. Keep your nose clean and don't act like you have rights you don't have. If you're not a citizen, don't act like you can't get deported.
Wipe your nose SHG you are getting snotty.
IMHO the deportation of criminals is a big red herring. The real unfairness lies in the way that Kiwis on SCVs can't get federal social security, emergency disaster relief, student loans, etc etc etc. I really don't care that people failing the character test are getting deported. I wish NZ would do the same. It's the government support bit that stings.
So you see Dutton as a precog?
"On the path to criminality." What, so if you have the potential to commit criminal acts sometime in the near or distant future, you should be chucked on a plane and told to sod off back to New Zealand? Seems totally fair. I hope Dutton's ESP is up to the task.
Dutton needs to be commended for putting the interests of the Australian people first.
Any country in the entire world has the right to kick out foreign criminals and people of bad character.
I totally support the same for New Zealand to do the same thing. You are not a New Zealander and you commit an offence here —then fuck off
Likewise I support the right of the Hong Kong government to hand over corrupt officials and criminals who committed crimes in China back to China, death penalty or no death penalty.
Sheesh. WhaleOil has been finished less than a day and the fascists are already finding their way over here.
Thank fuck your support is meaningless then sambambalam.
Grubby you can't blame the Aussies for putting out the trash.
They made the trash NastiMan.
Can blame them for tipping it over our fence, though. And are.
Fellow nationalist authoritarian sees no problem with Gauleiter Dutton's bigotry – no surprises there then.
'Bigotry???'
If disliking criminals, rapists, thieves, murderers, people of bad character, general pond scum is 'bigoted' then yeah. I am a bigot.
If thinking people like Amerika Uili are anthropoid refuse is 'bigoted' then yeah, I suppose I'm a bigot.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12244629
I expect it was obvious to most readers of this thread, but it's always good to have things explicitly stated. Thanks for helping clear that up.
I don't care if this became law for all future convictions because at least people know what to expect for future actions and can generally avoid it, but making it retrospective is reprehensible.
You've got me wondering if Dutton's not using this little bit of "kiwi bashing", which is raw red meat to the dinkum aussie, to get a precedent for other retrospective law changes affecting other immigrant groups, or the wider Australian population.
Or he's just a xenophobic hobgoblin drunk on power. He routinely overrules tribunal decisions regarding visa cancellations, he's alienated doctors after overseeing massive cuts to the health system, South Africa hates him after he suggested white farmers should be allowed to enter Australia on humanitarian grounds, the courts have repeatedly told him to pull his head in, he boycotted Kevin Rudd's apology to indigenous Australians, he finds the notion of Pacific nations being swamped by climate change 'amusing', and he reacts to journalistic criticism about as well as someone with a peanut allergy reacts to a peanut brownie — going so far as to call one journalist "a mad fucking witch". He's an appalling human being and utterly unfit for office. If Andrew Little wants to give Dutton a verbal kicking every so often, more power to him.
<i>He's an appalling human being and utterly unfit for office.</i>
Typical liberal speak, dehumanizing those who disagree with them, always from the position of virtue signalling and smug moral superiority.
The counterfactual is lives could well have been lost in Australia, had Mr Dutton not put in place his garbage removal policies.
Heh. Dehumanizing those who disagree with me? I did refer to Dutton as a human being, and I'm not the one referring to people as 'garbage'. I simply listed a catalogue of Dutton's 'greatest hits', but don't let his track record of being a shitty person discourage you from singing his praises. Don't you have an Alt-Right rally to attend or something?
Wouldn't surprise me. Unlike here, where we treat residents (i.e. people who who hold resident or permanent resident visas) as quasi-citizens, the Aussie legal framework is less favourable to residents, and more prone to retrospective changes. In theory this encourages people to take up citizenship, but in practice, can cause some awkward outcomes.