Fact checking National

14 comments on “Fact checking National ”

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1. Nic the NZer 1

   13 February 2020 at 9:25 am

   The issue around GDP growth as a measure is a tricky one. Other indicators are collected but then play little part in the discussion. It appears to be just a product of how the media and public couches discussions on the economy and therefore difficult to change.

   Similar with unemployment rates. Stats NZ produces a wide range of under and unemployment rates, full and part-time work stats each period and the media reports say, unemployment is x% and leave it at that.
   • Sacha 1.1

     13 February 2020 at 10:26 am

     Remember the Nats played this 'which stats to use' trick in their last term – even changing their own selection several times to suit.
2. tc 2

   13 February 2020 at 10:15 am

   Soimon is just warming up and you'll see plenty of doubling down and bs diversions as he gets called on this tactic.
   • Tiger Mountain 2.1

     13 February 2020 at 10:44 am

     Good on the fact checkers of the world, though it seems a largely thankless service at times.

     As I have discovered on social media, when pointing out the fabrication of something to some of my old car culture friends–essentially they disregard the correction because they actually want, and need, the original assertion to be true!

     Interesting how post modernist/anything goes philosophy is ok for politics and individuals world views, but a materialist/world is knowable approach is just fine when say an engine part has to be measured exactly.

     Neo Liberal hegemony, and its associated hyper individualism, has a lot to answer for when processed through digital media.
     • Sacha 2.1.1

       13 February 2020 at 12:07 pm

       essentially they disregard the correction because they actually want, and need, the original assertion to be true!

       That is how humans work, yes.
3. Enough is Enough 3

   13 February 2020 at 10:16 am

   Measuring a government's success by GDP growth is just a continuation of the failed policies since 1984, which this government unfortunately continues to follow.

   When can we expect to move past Rogernomics?
   • Tiger Mountain 3.1

     13 February 2020 at 10:36 am

     Other than existential biggie–Climate Activism–the key political task of our era has to be burying the legacy of “Roger’n’Ruth”. The decades long neo liberal consensus between the main Parliamentary parties prevents progress being made on so much.
   • tc 3.2

     13 February 2020 at 12:00 pm

     Can't see that until the pain, suffering and destruction causes evolution or revolution.

     Probably a bit of both with the old guard shuffling off and the dissatisfied storming a few gated communities/institutions etc
     • Enough is Enough 3.2.1

       13 February 2020 at 1:09 pm

       My hope is that post election NZ First is gone which will give the Green Party enormous leverage to force a genuinely conservative Labour party into some real meaningful reforms.

       I don't want Jacinda boasting about GDP growth. I want her boasting about how her government destroyed the legacy of Rogernomics.
       • tc 3.2.1.1

         13 February 2020 at 1:22 pm

         Can't see that happening as the mallards Robertsons Nashes, Hipkins etc have successfully purged them out.

         Evolution awaits or maybe a proper left party to play the nat/act game of ‘ they’re making us do it, Damm this mmp’
4. Sacha 4

   13 February 2020 at 10:28 am

   As we have discussed before, 'calling out' lies does not change people's minds.

   All that voters register is the confidence of the person making the assertion (try watching them on telly with the sound turned off). Ardern can win that over Bridges any day. Bigger fish to fry.
5. pat 5

   13 February 2020 at 10:55 am

   This is politics…facts have little to do with it.
6. Sanctuary 6

   13 February 2020 at 11:22 am

   The better tactic rather than demolishing each lie while National simply moves on the next one is to build a narrative around trustworthiness – and Simon Bridges lack thereof.
7. adam 7

   13 February 2020 at 2:16 pm

   Not sure this is the best tactic and use of your time Mickysavage. The US, UK and Aussie elections proved that the whole lying and half truths from the Tory muppets is effective with voters. And the time and energy used to rebut them, does little to engage with the voting public. Mainly because by the time you get to respond – the corporate media have moved to the next lie and half truth.

   Micky of all the commentators and authors here, you could, and probably should push a meta narrative to undermine national, and in particular Bridges. This would be a better than using up your precious time in response posts.

   In a way I'm agreeing with Sanctuary above at 6. But I'm also disagreeing in that – I'd suggest you pick what you want to run with, because then it will be written in your voice, and have your affirming voice to accompany it.

   Have a great day, and ant it been a great week having two social democratic wins.

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