Farm protest mad cows and climate change

Written By: - Date published: 3:49 pm, September 18th, 2017 - 105 comments
Categories: climate change, election 2017, farming, farming, global warming - Tags: , , , , ,

The farmers’ protest in Morrinsville today unfortunately shows that we have made no progress in the 15 years since Bill English attacked the wrong PM with his “mad cow” insult. Meanwhile the effects of climate change have got worse, our options for dealing with it have got fewer, and the Nats don’t want you to know about $19bn of NZ property at risk.

The Protest:

The water:

The climate:

The suppressed report:

105 comments on “Farm protest mad cows and climate change ”

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  1. cleangreen 1
    18 September 2017 at 4:18 pm

    At this farmers rally I see today Winston did also turn up to talk with these ‘farmers’ (may be bused in pay for protest group some of them) and my guess is Winston wanted to float his plan to devalue the dollar so farmers can increase incomes, and that is o/k but we have ‘another elephant in the room’ also that no one is discussing so I want to place it here, what say you”?

    Does the green party want to re-align the ‘Reserve bank Act’ as it was pre-rogernomics era?

    I would like to know what GP wants to do about the treasury please as they are fulll of ex Goldman Sachs stooges and are alwats pulling national right and to borrow mioney from Global investors and not use their own instruments like changing the reserve Bank Act 1961 back to where it used to be before the rogernomics era????????

    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/87025/nz-first-has-long-sought-changes-how-rbnz-runs-monetary-policy-so-alex-tarrant-attempted-

    • JC 1.1
      18 September 2017 at 4:40 pm

      Perhaps read their policies!

      https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/economic-policies

      Rather than making spurious allegations without substance!

    • WILD KATIPO 1.2
      18 September 2017 at 4:53 pm

      Hmmmm ,… a couple of good points , there CLEANGREEN,…

      Were they INDEED ALL farmers that turned up to that protest ?…. we all know National is fond of labeling all protesters as the rent – a – mob paid protesters crowd,… recall John Key labeling Glenn Greenwald as one of Kim Dotcoms ‘ little henchmen’ and Nicky Hager as a ‘screaming communist’.

      It is 5 days until the election after all and judging by Nationals past record of Dirty Politics campaigning and using smearing tactics and telling half truths / forgetting conveniently when asked to ‘ please explain ‘ ,… I wouldn’t put it past them to try to pull a stunt like having a few bogus ‘farmers’ at a protest.

      The second point is putting the Reserve Bank / Treasury back under govt control and regulation. Doing that would go along way to prevent these opportunistic pirates , – or as you say , CLEANGREEN , – Goldman Sachs stooges , – from interfering with the myriad down river effects on our economy , – AND , – having such an inordinate , ( and un – elected ) surreptitious influence on policy that affects New Zealanders.

      • cleangreen 1.2.1
        18 September 2017 at 7:06 pm

        Hi Wild Katipo.

        Yes I watched John Campbell interviewing Winston at 5.15pm during ‘Checkpoint’
        and it was very entertaining because there was good vibes going there without any ‘unpleasantry’ between these two warrors of politics.

        Winston did then mention his want to change the ‘NZ Reserve Bank Act’ when John Campbell asked him ‘what do you want to see changed’ he mentioned your references to (certain parties) rorting the system as it stands now.

        Let’s hope that these three parties if all wanting to shut out the rorting of our treasury can find some common ground to work ‘constructively’ together.

        NZ need to see a joining of the minds of the opposition parties now as we will not survive by kicking eachother around all the time.

        Winston did admit there inn the interview “nothing was not negociable, and he has no bottom lines thus will work with other parties if need be.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201858966/checkpoint-leader-interview-winston-peters

    • Nic the NZer 1.3
      18 September 2017 at 10:53 pm

      No changes in the reserve bank act are needed already in order for the government to alter its policy in this regard.

      https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/independent-review-of-the-operation-of-monetary-policy-2/fiscal-and-monetary-coordination

      “1. Under the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 1989, the Bank’s primary goal is the maintenance of price stability. The Bank is exclusively responsible for this objective – reflecting that inflation is ultimately a monetary phenomenon. That is, whereas monetary policy’s only lasting effect is on inflation, fiscal policy has no lasting effect on inflation. The exception is where fiscal policy subverts monetary policy from its objective, as when a government finds that funding a large fiscal deficit in the market causes unacceptable pressure on interest rates and directs the central bank to provide the funding, that is, to “monetise” the deficit. The structures in the Act very substantially militate against this kind of subversion of the price stability objective of monetary policy, a key feature of the Act. Although the objective may be overridden by the government of the day, this can be done only by way of a very transparent process, and then any override can last for no more than twelve months unless explicitly renewed. These requirements establish a high hurdle for a government wishing to change the objective, and in the absence of the override being invoked, the price stability objective prevails.”

      E.g the government can finance itself as it chooses today. The main caveat being it must tell the RBNZ (and the public) what its doing and continue renewing its commitment to financing itself in this manner.

      Of course the links back to Friedmans ‘inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon’ are quite clear but equally laughable today as the RBNZ long since gave up monetary aggregate targeting and reverted to interest rate targeting. If this was really believable then allowing the money supply to grow without limit as long as the relevant interest rate is paid (the OCR) would lead to uncontrolled inflation (which it don’t). In the real world inflation rates are mostly dominated by circumstances outside of governments control anyway.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.3.1
        18 September 2017 at 11:33 pm

        … ” The main caveat being it must tell the RBNZ (and the public) what its doing and continue renewing its commitment to financing itself in this manner ” ….

        Ooooo ,… how jilly jolly convivial of them…. I’m sure that arrangement fits in well with the powers that be , mind you … as for the public?,…. most still live in the Shire and are pleasantly drunk by 9.pm….

        And this load of gobbly gook….

        … ” The exception is where fiscal policy subverts monetary policy from its objective, as when a government finds that funding a large fiscal deficit in the market causes unacceptable pressure on interest rates and directs the central bank to provide the funding, that is, to “monetise” the deficit ” ….

        Nice. So in order to prevent a cock up , and to have a situation where wages are forced up due to a fiscal deficit because the hallowed theory of ‘ market forces’ is put at threat of being exposed , – in walks the central bank to prevent panic ( ie : the need for govt bail outs ) .

        So now we see why , … we have a housing problem.

        And a low wage economy in the middle of a ‘ rockstar economy ‘ .

        And an underfunded social infrastructure.

        Gotta keep that inflation down to maximize those returns, eh?

        So , currently , we have these problems because someone’s makin’ a shitload from keeping inflation low and thus wages low and thus shares / investment returns and profits margins high. All because if a govt wanted to advance an initiative ,… that may or may not threaten certain interests directly involved in that initiative. Like mass housing building projects , for example . Just sayin’ ,…

        Dire Straits – Money For Nothing – YouTube

        • Nic the NZer 1.3.1.1
          19 September 2017 at 7:36 am

          With the relationship between the reserve bank and parliament (e.g the government) its important to recognise who is actually in charge. The reserve bank is operationally independent under legislation (which can be changed), the governor of the reserve bank answers to the finance minister and has targets set and updated by the finance minister. Anything the reserve bank is doing government is almost certainly happy they are doing it.

          The fiscal policy paragraph you quoted from talks about if the government forces the reserve bank to fund its spending by issueing new money. How the economy in practice responds to that is up for debate and probably doesn’t fit with what the reserve bank is saying it believes will happen there. NZ has funded itself that way before and nothing unusual happened when it did.

  2. Macro 2
    18 September 2017 at 4:22 pm

    But! But! But! Farmers are the backbone of the country. Surely you must know this. They need to secure their future, whatever that may be. They need respect and understanding. Why! Haven’t they fenced off more than 90% of the major rivers so their cows can’t shit in them anymore? The little rivers and streams through their farms don’t count because they are only little, and even if they do feed into the major rivers it’s only a little bit. Farmers pay far more tax than anyone else in this country – I know this because a farmer told me that once. And what’s more this CO2 thing is flat wrong because the cows only fart methane and that’s a natural gas. I now this because I read it once in the Fed Farmers Mag. And the guy who wrote it was a farmer and he should know.
    Anyway climate change is just a hoax. Trump reckons the Chinese thought it up and he’s a pretty smart guy so he should know. And Its cold and raining here today so that proves its all hogwash.

    /sarc

    • Unicus 2.1
      18 September 2017 at 7:06 pm

      The National party and Federated Farmers made fools of these people today – they looked like uneducated bigoted Yobs out for a brawl

      It’s very sad that they have allowed the party they support to set them up as useful electoral idiots . In the process creating the very town V country hostility National has accused Labour and The Greens of

      • Delia 2.1.1
        18 September 2017 at 10:26 pm

        They did themselves no favours,they acted like the very people they claim to despise,those they call rent a demo. Worse display I have ever seen from farmers in this country.

        • Crashcart 2.1.1.1
          19 September 2017 at 8:21 am

          It also said a lot about the old racist attitudes when one of those interviewed for ! news last night said after the fart tax, water tax and Maori’s get their bit what is left for us? Remind me again how Maori’s are reaching into your pocket poor Mr farmer?

  3. JC 3
    18 September 2017 at 4:28 pm

    Yep. ” Barking Mad”. A waste of 15 years!…

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-the-land-of-milk-and-money-dairy-boom-feeds-environmental-fears-1502708406

    or Al Jazeera’s major documentary investigation… Polluted Paradise..

    or “The nation needs to take stock of where farming is headed in the future and focus on sustainability, two agricultural leaders say.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/country/339311/greens-and-farmers-yell-across-chasm

  4. ianmac 4
    18 September 2017 at 4:37 pm

    Did the National Party organise this Protest? English said he didn’t know who organised it. Really!!!
    Notice that no National insignia showing. Why not? English/Joyce want you to think it was a spontaneous protest. Really!!!

  5. Union city greens 5
    18 September 2017 at 4:40 pm

    Pretty communists > Shit polluting, eco system destroying, me first, the worst kind of bank balance driven guardians of the land.

  6. Ed 6
    18 September 2017 at 4:49 pm

    Great we have pro-pollution protests in this country…..

  7. Ad 7
    18 September 2017 at 4:58 pm

    Should Labour get in power, they are going to have to figure out how to work with farmers and not just tax them.

    They have some regional economic development policy, but not enough on farming per se. In the current bunch only the West Coast’s Damien O’Connor has much regional credibility – and he has little support within caucus.

    David Parker well knows that the core reason that farmers are polluting is that they are incentivised by the market and by the government-manufactured corporate Fonterra to produce as much milk as possible as fast and as consistently as possible. Have done ever since GATT Uruguay.

    Labour got caned with effective farmer protest the last time that they were in power and are setting themselves up for more.

    The enemy is not the farmers.

    The enemy is the market mechanisms exercised by the milk oligopoly that drives them: they need to target Fonterra.

    • Union city greens 7.1
      18 September 2017 at 5:04 pm

      Fonterra is farmers, ergo farmers are the enemy.
      Until they are compliant they have to be moulded to the will of the people.
      The onus is on them to seek sustainable change.

    • Muttonbird 7.2
      18 September 2017 at 5:06 pm

      Regulate Fonterra. I like it. We could start by setting them increased productivity targets and lower pollution targets for their members.

      • Ad 7.2.1
        18 September 2017 at 5:22 pm

        A future government needs to review the governing legislation that formed Fontrerra. The focus needs to be not on volume and price regulating mechanisms that govern volume, but on how they are adding value to existing production.

        If a future government shows clearly who the real profiteers are, they have a chance of getting farmers back on side.

        • Muttonbird 7.2.1.1
          18 September 2017 at 5:27 pm

          There’s always a bit of discomfort from members in these type of models. I know it from work I used to do for Stihl. They have a similar model where retail members pay for rights to sell under the brand but it’s not always a happy relationship.

          Peters is the one attacking Fonterra for its volume over value strategy. We don’t need Labour wading into that debate right now – like the CGT someone else owns it.

          • Ad 7.2.1.1.1
            18 September 2017 at 5:31 pm

            I’d certainly agree the damage is well done to Labour now. – no point trying to change tack again in the final week.

            Peters showed guts getting up on the stage at Morrisnville.
            The cowards were the National MPs in attendance who didn’t make a peep.

            • Muttonbird 7.2.1.1.1.1
              18 September 2017 at 5:35 pm

              He highjacked the stage and it didn’t go well for him.

              The Nat MPs were under strict instruction from Bill English to not say anything in case it looked like a National Party endorsed event.

              The organiser described it somewhat erroneously as a celebration of the contribution farmers are making to the environment. In reality however it was a hit against Jacinda Ardern in her hometown.

              • TootingPopularFront …
                18 September 2017 at 9:14 pm

                Yep, dirty politics, given maximum coverage by Paddy Gower on NewsHub tonight. National are shameless and running very scared.

            • WILD KATIPO 7.2.1.1.1.2
              18 September 2017 at 5:45 pm

              … ” The cowards were the National MPs in attendance who didn’t make a peep ” …

              Yes they did ! , – they were the ones dressed in Swandri’s and gumboots waving placards and chanting….

        • Pat 7.2.1.2
          18 September 2017 at 7:16 pm

          ‘If a future government shows clearly who the real profiteers are, they have a chance of getting farmers back on side.”

          The attempt should be made but any expectation of farmer support for Lab/Green needs to be realistic….there is an almost genetic block for it .

        • Stuart Munro 7.2.1.3
          19 September 2017 at 3:30 am

          We could do worse than introducing some anti-monopoly legislation – Fonterra is less competitive and more politically active because it is a single player.

    • AB 7.3
      18 September 2017 at 5:29 pm

      Agree that dairy farmers have been set up to some extent – squeezed between the volume production required by Fonterra and the banks from whom they have to borrow.
      But you can’t deny that there is a culture of exceptionalism amongst farmers – that they are the true New Zealanders superior to townsfolk and that they have a divine right to do what they need to be profitable. This exceptionalism goes back a long way – at least to Massey’s Cossacks.

      • Ad 7.3.1
        18 September 2017 at 5:34 pm

        I would agree with that and sure saw it in operation in Wanaka with David Parker two weeks ago. But they are also exceptionally good at it. Didn’t even need the official presence of Federated Farmers there to do the damage.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.4
      18 September 2017 at 5:47 pm

      The enemy is not the farmers.

      No shit, Sherlock. Did you work that out all by yourself, or have you been affected by the National Party’s divisive lies on the topic?

      Just that I don’t see anybody on the Left describing farmers as “the enemy”, or anything close to it.

      And the next government should get on with the job and stop trying to appease people who hate them at everyone else’s expense. Let the 97% of cockies who won’t be affected by water charges figure it out for themselves.

    • cleangreen 7.5
      18 September 2017 at 7:29 pm

      100% Ad. suberb sumary there.

    • Delia 7.6
      18 September 2017 at 10:27 pm

      You sure they are not making Labour the enemy?

  8. red-blooded 8
    18 September 2017 at 5:08 pm

    Actually, the farmers (who control Fonterra) can take some responsibility for their own decisions and actions/inactions.

    Agriculture is about 5% of GDP (according to the Stuff Finance debate last week) but create a hell of a lot more than 5% of our environmental problems. I’m sure there are some who see themselves as kaitiaki of the land, but the majority sure as hell don’t act that way.

    • Ad 8.1
      18 September 2017 at 5:27 pm

      The Fonterra Shareholder Representative Group has only pretty oblique powers over Fonterra’s direction – and it really is an elite few of the farmers . The questions that the shareholders have been given clear mandates to decide have been pretty narrow – including the float two years ago.

      Farmers are citizens. Fonterra has set up the market, buys in bulk, has little steadying influence on the global milk market, and dominates our entire foreign policy and trade policy.

      A really interesting government with some tactical skill would set up Fonterra against the tourism industry. That is the future play over land use: agricultural production v global image manufacturing and retailing.

    • Ian 8.2
      18 September 2017 at 5:34 pm

      Agriculture is approx 17 % of gross domestic product in NZ compared to 1 % in the USA. Please debate with facts. What float are you referring to 2 years ago ?

    • greg 8.3
      18 September 2017 at 6:09 pm

      i think they calculated the environmental damage around 20 billion if farming had to pay the full cost farming would be a zero sum game

      • KJT 8.3.1
        20 September 2017 at 1:28 pm

        Well. It earns less than the money taken out by overseas banks.

        Borrowing which is necessary, for the land price boom, the “free market”, “free trade” agreements and immigration, set up for the benefit of farming.

        I am not an enemy of farmers, but they cannot expect a free ride on the rest of us forever.
        Entire industries and many urban businesses, including my own industry, were sacrificed on the alter of “free trade” to help farming exports.
        I don’t think it is too much to expect that farming pays it’s own pollution costs. They definitely don’t contribute much to net taxes, otherwise.

    • Richard Christie 9.1
      18 September 2017 at 10:37 pm

      lol

      • WILD KATIPO 9.1.1
        19 September 2017 at 2:23 am

        Laughing at your ‘ lol’…. yep… the guy in the photo suits the moniker ‘wanker’ all right.

        I like the adjective ‘Real’ put in front of the word ‘wanker’ when in reference to slobs such as the one in the photo , however,….

  10. Stuart Munro 10
    18 September 2017 at 6:01 pm

    Someone’s done a great photoshop of the ‘pretty communist’ fellow with a photo of Yang and ‘He’s an actual communist’. He’s not of course – but it’s a pretty good answer at the level of unreason National is depending on.

  11. Delia 11
    18 September 2017 at 6:33 pm

    For decades these farmers had taxpayer paid subsidies and they still have some subsidies now. All we ask is that you clean up the water, but if you want to play hard we can source our own vegetables and quit eating meat and leave you out of it. I pay for the water I use, why don’t you?

  12. Sanctuary 12
    18 September 2017 at 6:36 pm

    My feelers (that is, listening in to conversations at work and in the mall) tell me that farmers are offside with public opinion on this one.

    • Muttonbird 12.1
      18 September 2017 at 6:41 pm

      City folk have been bailing these people out for decades. We have had enough.

      • Sanctuary 12.1.1
        18 September 2017 at 6:47 pm

        I think it is the litany of aggressive denial, lip service and broken promises over water quality that has done dairying in. New Zealanders actually care about our waterways, clean rivers and lakes are part of our self-image and the idea they’ve been turned into open sewers in a tragedy of the commons has annoyed people, who also think that if you make a mess, you should clean it up.

      • greg 12.1.2
        18 September 2017 at 7:33 pm

        +100

  13. mosa 13
    18 September 2017 at 6:55 pm

    Nationals ” rent -a -mob ”

    It’s worked before like in 2008 against Helen Clark and the ” ditch the bitch ” campaign.

    And the old communism label has been dragged out , these people should be more fixated on the coming effects of global warming and what they can do to help confront its effects that they will be dealing with in a short space of time.

    When the effects of global warming manifest themselves on the rural sector they will be the first ones with their hand out for taxpayer compensation.

    And a Labour- green government will give it too them.

  14. Ian 14
    18 September 2017 at 7:33 pm

    Listen guys but I know you all have your fingers in your ears so maybe you can still read.
    For 20 years there has been a campaign of hate and agravation against dairy farmers. Bryce Johnson a turncoat and traitor of the highest order started it all. His dirty dairying campaign was classic dirty politics. Richard Ballantyne of the overpriced Canterbury,first 4 ship trinket store funded alot of it. Russel Norman and his assorted band of flakes are now on board.
    Economics dictates land use not political parties.
    You can buy units in Fonterra on the stock exchange and they are the equivalent of the shares that farmers have to own to supply Fonterra. They pay a divident that is very similar to my energy shares and I reccomend them to any closet capitalists out there.
    Global warming is the current cycle we are in. On the positive Robert will be growing Tamarillos and Paw Paws in Southland in the not to distant future and dairy productivity in Irrigated Canterbury will be up 20 % . I can’t wait !!

    • Muttonbird 14.1
      18 September 2017 at 7:40 pm

      How is your post helping New Zealand? Yours is just an arrogant selfish point of view which concentrates on your own well being and which damages the greater New Zealand.

      If National wins we can expect more entrenched views and advantages from people like Ian.

      • Ian 14.1.1
        18 September 2017 at 7:51 pm

        You forget about all the people we employ and the businesses that we support,the donations we make to the city mission ,the sallys,vinnys and the national party. We donate to approx 20 charities. How much of your money do you give away ?

        • Muttonbird 14.1.1.1
          18 September 2017 at 8:02 pm

          So you’re in business so you can support your employees and donate to the National Party rather than you own benefit? Good to know.

        • Psycho Milt 14.1.1.2
          18 September 2017 at 9:40 pm

          The weird thing is you seem to imagine that the rest of us should be OK with exempting you from emissions reduction targets and water quality improvement measures because you employ people and give money to charity. Look up the meaning of “non sequitur,” it might help you figure out how ridiculous your comment is.

        • Stuart Munro 14.1.1.3
          19 September 2017 at 3:34 am

          The people you employ are all foreigners nowadays mate.

        • Melanie Scott 14.1.1.4
          19 September 2017 at 5:47 am

          Lots of us donate to charity and we don’t own all that abused land. I spent years travelling around urban and rural NZ selling the wares of my business. All through the boom years for dairy farming at the beginining or this century, retailers in the provincial towns of the Waikato and Wairarapa constantly moaned to me about how tight fisted and stingy dairy farmers in their area were. The sheep farmers of Hawkes Bay were another matter. They didn’t often have much money, but when they were feeling flush they threw it around quite a bit.

        • Unicus 14.1.1.5
          19 September 2017 at 8:17 am

          Charity is repulsive to most New Zealanders – particularly those who are forced to accept it from self agrandizing pricks like you.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2
      18 September 2017 at 8:33 pm

      Global warming is the current cycle we are in

      It doesn’t surprise me that the consequences of the molecular structure of CO2 are beyond your feeble intellect. Quite happy to accept Physics and Chemistry when it comes to profit, though, eh moron.

      • Ian 14.2.1
        18 September 2017 at 8:41 pm

        Your adoration is so embarrassing. I thought methane was the problem . Profit is not a dirty word mr no one , and profits are taxed. Taxing water air and land is a totally different story

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1.1
          18 September 2017 at 8:49 pm

          Prof. David Archer’s “Much Ado About Methane” is good background if you’re interested.

          It’s also a Greenhouse gas, and again, it’s down to the molecular structure.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1.2
          18 September 2017 at 9:00 pm

          I didn’t say profit is a dirty word, anonymous Ian. I said you’re happy to accept Physics and Chemistry when they’re in service of profit; a double standard if ever there was one.

          The inclusion of agricultural emissions in the ETS can be offset by planting trees. Your choice.

          Another double standard here is of course the fact we’ve already established: that domestic water users already pay 100 times more than Labour’s proposed charge, which will affect about 3% of farms.

          As for land taxes, are you joining Penny Bright in her rates revolt, anonymous Ian?

          • Ian 14.2.1.2.1
            18 September 2017 at 9:23 pm

            Domestic users pay to get their water delivery.no one pays anyone for the actual water.I have just spent $25000 planting native trees and shrubs which is possible due to a higher payout from fonterra.
            Getting a bit weary trying to get a few basic facts through your thick skull.
            I give up.The stardust has turned to bulldust so life is good

            • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1.2.1.1
              18 September 2017 at 9:51 pm

              Baby steps, anonymous Ian. I realise you are the centre of your tiny little universe, and other farmers crying and whinging about the ETS can plant trees too.

              How are you getting on with the basic facts about greenhouse gases? Let me know if you need me to rub your face in them some more.

            • Cinny 14.2.1.2.1.2
              19 September 2017 at 2:01 am

              Good to hear Ian about planting trees, I do that too. Some farmers don’t, and seeing stock during the spring rains or summer heat with no shelter really pisses me off, it’s cruel. Grandpop was a farmer, he was big on trees and understood the value of them for the health of his stock and land.

              My water comes from a bore, it’s the same for all of my neighbours, we all have pumps. None of us use our water to generate profit, none of us graze stock, we all pay rates.

              If I was using an excessive amount of water to generate a profit, of course I’d expect to pay a charge to do so. The word being excessive, and that’s where the confusion is. National has brainwashed people into thinking all farmers will be charged for water, this is simply not the case. But then the lies have been coming thick and fast from the blues, the way I see I can’t vote for liars, can’t trust them.

              • WILD KATIPO …
                19 September 2017 at 3:20 am

                100%, Cinny , …. now those animals are just like people, they are herd animals, … and just like we all like to hear the sound of rain on our tin roofs pounding on a thundery , blustery night and keeping toasty warm under our bedsheets, and have our family’s close … well ,…animals are the same.

                And there’s nothing like seeing a flock of sheep all bunched together in a gut sheltering in amongst a ton of trees in a storm. And cattle beasts are the same as well as horses,… and dogs for that matter ,… if there’s shelter they’ll take it.

                They are no fools, … and how many times have we all seen cattle steeled against the howling wind and spread out , yet all together through the cover of rough tree foliage. Blinking off the rain as it drives into their faces. They get scared during violent thunderstorms just like some people do.

                Its nice to know they can do what their wild ancestors did and take shelter.

                And its nice to know there are a whole heap of farmers who know this already and provide those trees as well as trees to stop slippage , erosion and create a natural riparian filter for run off.

                There aint nothing like trees and flax’s and reeds and bullrush’s to do this for us. Nature provided it , we ought to taking her advice and doing it.

                All we need after trees / re-vegetation is govt subsidies for fencing.

                I support the rural community and the farmers ,… as that’s where I came from ,… but even back in the day when my father was a park ranger he commented on the local farmer not fencing in his cattle in wading in the tidal creek … saying it was not good… way back in the 1970’s…

                I think with a little bit of to and fro ing we can get it sorted,…

                Its a concern with water usage, … my main concern is foreign company’s exploiting bottled water and not paying tax on that ,… but we do have a situation where some farms,… not old family farms are, unfortunately drying up rivers it appears ,… forced to in order to complete the demands of corporate intensive dairying interests aka Bankers demands … if it was my way ,… it would be completed with Labour / Greens interests in making foreign corporate’s pay their fair share of tax,…. I would make unapologetic concessions for the smaller family operated Kiwi farmers,… hence a progressive taxation system,…. and , in keeping with that progressive taxation,… a far less punitive regime for water use.

                And I would be quite unapologetic in making non New Zealanders and their shareholders foot some of that bill as the price they , … for doing business here.

                And if they and their banker mates didn’t like that ?…then they can stick their protestations clear up their arse.

                And building on that ?… that also includes any NZ monopoly’s that skirt that system by working in collusion with those very same banking institutions that encourage this whole vortex.

                And you know who I mean when I say that .

          • WILD KATIPO 14.2.1.2.2
            18 September 2017 at 9:31 pm

            Oooooo ,… apart from all the hoohaa atm ,… I always love the idea of planting trees! No matter the occasion or excuse !!!

            Glorious native trees providing shelter and habitat for man and beast !!! A refuge from the searing hot sweaty sun in summer and a fortress against the wild ravages of the elements in winter !!!

            We should hold a favourite native tree competition on TS . 🙂

            My votes for Tea Trees !

            All I Can Do Is Write About It – YouTube
            lynyrd skynyrd all i can do is write about it you tube▶ 4:20

    • Rae 14.3
      18 September 2017 at 10:32 pm

      The amount of dairying on the Canterbury Plains and McKenzie Country and Central Otago that should be allowed sits somewhere around zero. Those lands are totally unsuited to it.

    • red-blooded 14.5
      19 September 2017 at 7:15 am

      Listen mate, we are under no obligation to approve of your business activities, and we have every right to disapprove of your dreadful impact on our environment. Dairy is a very inefficient use of water, land and energy. I’m proud that I don’t consume your products still hope there are others commenting here who take the same position. We’re sick of being expected to put up with the impact you have on our shared environment and if you’re now being asked to start to take practical steps towards mitigating and cleaning up then it’s well over time! Why should I pay for your shitty practices?

  15. cleangreen 15
    18 September 2017 at 7:36 pm

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/09/18/why-on-earth-are-we-interviewing-13-political-parties-tonight-at-8pm/

    Tonight from 8pm, live streamed here at The Daily Blog and on http://www.kiwidebate.online I will interview 13 Political Parties to hear what they think the big issues of our country are and how they intend to solve them.

    Martyn’s got a talk fest with 13 parties tonight, worth a watch? Starts at 8.00pm. till 10pm.

  17. Ian 17
    18 September 2017 at 9:23 pm

    Domestic users pay to get their water delivery.no one pays anyone for the actual water.I have just spent $25000 planting native trees and shrubs which is possible due to a higher payout from fonterra.
    Getting a bit weary trying to get a few basic facts through your thick skull.
    I give up.The stardust has turned to bulldust so life is good

    • Muttonbird 17.1
      18 September 2017 at 9:26 pm

      I’d post the receipts if I were you. Otherwise it’s your usual RW bullshit.

    • Psycho Milt 17.2
      18 September 2017 at 9:37 pm

      I have just spent $25000 planting native trees and shrubs…

      Well, bully for you. The post though is about the dim bulbs gathered with their political representatives in Morrinsville who are still peddling climate change denial after all these years and are angry that a government may want them to change their business model from one predicated on the freedom to pollute. Fuck them.

  19. Roy Cartland 19
    18 September 2017 at 10:24 pm

    What point is that twerp with the communist sign trying to make? He called Jacinta “socialistic”.

  20. millsy 20
    19 September 2017 at 2:31 am

    “Pretty Communist”?

    Just for levying a pretty modest tax via the local reigonal council, every cent of which would be made available for cleaning up rivers?

    Perhaps we should see what “Pretty Communist” really means. A truck full of armed men turning up in the middle of the night, breaking down your door and giving you 20 min to pack your stuff and leave because the government is taking over your farm. No compensation, right of appeal, legal representation. Your farm now belongs to the state. Too bad.

    Get over it. If you stop poison in the rivers, then people will leave you alone. Simple. We dont want your farms, we just want you to keep the fucking water clean, and if that means a few less nights down at the pub, or getting a Great Wall instead of the latest Hilux, then so be it. Perhaps get your wives to shop at the Warehouse instead of Caroline Eve.

    I dont see garage owners bitching about not being allowed to pour their waste oil down the drain.,

    • WILD KATIPO 20.1
      19 September 2017 at 3:50 am

      … ” Get over it. If you stop poison in the rivers, then people will leave you alone. Simple. We dont want your farms, we just want you to keep the fucking water clean, and if that means a few less nights down at the pub, or getting a Great Wall instead of the latest Hilux, then so be it. Perhaps get your wives to shop at the Warehouse instead of Caroline Eve.

      I dont see garage owners bitching about not being allowed to pour their waste oil down the drain ” …

      Fucking good one , millsy.

      But as always ,… we need to hit where the heart of the problem is ,… those that encourage this sort of cowshit. And to do that ?…. we have to have a look at the burgeoning operations that have grown so large that they now have become a potent political force who’s allegiance is to the highest political bidder…

      And then to the banks who have enabled that and actively encourage them.

      • millsy 20.1.1
        19 September 2017 at 9:52 am

        “And then to the banks who have enabled that and actively encourage them.”

        All a future Labour finance minister needs to do is take the Reserve Bank governor aside in the Koru Club waiting room, and just suggest that he should pull aside bank chiefs while waiting for flights to suggest to their bank managers that they should think about tightening up on rural lending.

        We would then have an unofficial moratorium on dairy conversions, simply done by the banks turning off the $$$ taps.

        The farmers can let rip at the banks and the governent can say ‘not our problem’.

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