Finkelstein on Dame Hodge

Written By: - Date published: 10:39 am, August 18th, 2018 - 58 comments
Categories: discrimination, International, journalism, liberalism, Media, Propaganda, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, uk politics - Tags: ,

Most people will know that Labour MP Dame Hodge called Jeremy Corbyn a “fucking antisemite and racist” to his face. Most people will also know that the Labour Party dropped disciplinary proceedings against her, and will also know that the Labour Party is under an unrelenting campaign by conservative Jewish organisations because it will not adopt a contested definition of antisemitism verbatim.

There has also been the peddling of what far too many people want to call “fake news” (ie – common garden variety propaganda) that would have had people believe that Jeremy Corbyn laid a commemorative wreath to Black September terrorists, even though no bodies of any perpetrator of the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre is in the cemetery Corbyn was at…or anywhere else in Tunisia for that matter.

Liberal media is now doubling down on that last point, and would have us accept that an alleged planner of the Olympic Massacre, who denied any involvement and whose innocence or guilt was never put to the test, is the same thing as a known perpetrator.

As an aside. When, as in Bibi on Corbyn, was the last time the leader of one country took the time out to “unequivocally condemn” the opposition leader of another country?

Anyway. Here’s Finkelstein on Hodge. But you’d do well to remember that Finkelstein is what some call a “self hating Jew”, and as such, his opinions and thoughts should be dismissed and play no part in drawing up or colouring any opinion around the fracas being generated around UK Labour Party these days.

If you don’t dismiss Finkelstein, as any “right thinking” person ought to, then you might also appreciate this piece by Mark Steel writing in The Independent

58 comments on “Finkelstein on Dame Hodge ”

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  1. dukeofurl 1
    18 August 2018 at 11:03 am

    Funny there was a similar push back to Ed Milliband when he was a supporter of palestinian causes
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html
    British Jews turn away from Ed Miliband’s Labour Party
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4654379,00.html
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/how-ed-miliband-lost-the-jewish-vote/
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-donors-said-abandoning-uks-pro-palestine-miliband/?fb_comment_id=762282173843783_762364453835555

    Ed Milliband was jewish. Makes you wonder.
    I would have thought for Corbyn the support of the British working class was more essential.

    • Bill 1.1
      18 August 2018 at 11:46 am

      Well, according to three overtly right wing news sources. Not familiar with ynetnews, but suspect that makes four.

      Jews within UK Labour have been on the receiving end of this antisemitism nonsense (subjected to disciplinary procedures).

      And at 2% of the population, yes, you’d think the support of the Jewish community wouldn’t be that crucial. But when people are using the presence of that Jewish community and its supposed fears to stir up nonsense that mainstream liberal outlets seem only too happy to echo and amplify….

      • dukeofurl 1.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 1:10 pm

        It seems that even having Milliband as a possible PM wouldnt loosen the purse strings ( raising money was mentioned over and over) so now with more Palestine friendly Corbyn, they has to use a bigger hammer to bring him down.
        You would think on the face of the evidence that Israeli meddling in UK politics is rife

      • swordfish 1.1.2
        19 August 2018 at 10:16 pm

        Finkelstein = brilliant as always.

        Bill:

        And at 2% of the population, yes, you’d think the support of the Jewish community wouldn’t be that crucial.

        Polls conducted within the British Jewish community have long shown that the community is overwhelmingly – and I mean overwhelmingly – Conservative-voting in its electoral proclivities.

        Was certainly Left-wing in the early-mid 20C … but very Tory since the 1960s. No coincidence that UK Jews headed Right as the community became more and more affluent in the post-War period.

    • Agora 1.2
      20 August 2018 at 12:26 pm

      The Israeli right’s ongoing war against jewish dissent
      https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2018-08-19/peter-beinart-israel-jews-enemies/

  2. Pat 2
    18 August 2018 at 11:20 am

    The man must be superhuman judging by the fear he is generating…..Stalin reincarnate?

    • Bill 2.1
      18 August 2018 at 11:54 am

      Hitlin? Staler? Fck knows.

      I might say there’s a potential to create unfortunate blow-back, if encouraging self fulfilling prophesy wasn’t also a possible something that’s on the table.

      I’ve read a few comments beneath articles where people are seemingly expressing a new found hostility towards Jews by way of extension of their anger towards those pushing this nonsense.

      • AB 2.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 12:29 pm

        “a new found hostility towards Jews by way of extension of their anger towards those pushing this nonsense.”
        No doubt this possibility has entered the calculations of Corbyn’s (false) accusers.
        Goading someone’s supporters into committing precisely the acts you are falsely accusing their leader of – that’s a good strategy.

      • Pat 2.1.2
        18 August 2018 at 1:15 pm

        Prejudice will always be with us but the concerted effort to undermine him suggests their belief he can win given half a chance.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3
        18 August 2018 at 3:01 pm

        I’ve read a few comments beneath articles where people are seemingly expressing a new found hostility towards Jews by way of extension of their anger towards those pushing this nonsense.

        People have a tendency to get angry at those who are constantly lying to them.

    • Siobhan 3.1
      18 August 2018 at 12:10 pm

      “Jeremy Corbyn is “probably the least charismatic leader of the left” but Labour MPs need to accept the fact that he “keeps beating them,” says Gary Younge, the Guardian columnist and author.

      In an interview with The Huffington Post UK, the left-wing commentator called Corbyn an “accidental leader” who was propelled into his role by forces greater than himself.

      Corbyn is “not tub-thumping or rhetorical brilliant” and claims that his leadership is ineffective may be true, Younge said.
      But he said he would have voted Corbyn in both leadership contests if he was a Labour Party member, because “something had to happen, and this is that something”..”

      https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-labour-gary-younge_uk_57e691fae4b0db20a6e9462a

      Gary Younge is, by Guardian standards unenthusiastically ‘pro-ish’ Corbyn.
      The Guardian being the paper who have engaged in printed warfare since Corbyn came to the fore. But Corbyn would be left on his knees if he took advice or leadership inspiration from people with such ‘fluid’ and indiferent supporter.

      https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/jul/19/yes-jeremy-corbyn-has-suffered-a-bad-press-but-wheres-the-harm

      • dukeofurl 3.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 1:04 pm

        You keep making the ‘mistake’ of thinking that Columnists writing in the Guardian are the voice of the Guardian itself.

        This is where you would find the ‘Guardian View’ https://www.theguardian.com/profile/editorial

        It will take a while to find anything on Corbyn at all. But this is a quite good one of the topic du jour which certainly raises interesting issues the more click bait columnists ignore
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/24/the-guardian-view-on-antisemitism-and-labour-not-just-a-problem-of-perception

      • Pat 3.1.2
        18 August 2018 at 1:13 pm

        The Guardians position re Corbyn has always puzzled me…. you have an old school Labour leader promoting old school social democratic ideals being relentlessly bagged by a self proclaimed left leaning publication…..odd, unless you consider the ‘left’ ideals have been undermined by a middle class fear of a loss of baubles.

        • greywarshark 3.1.2.1
          18 August 2018 at 2:35 pm

          Pat
          That’s a thought. The baubles, the comfort, the style, the entitled position of those displaying the right coded display, the fitting in; they mount up. Think: Python torture satire ‘No, no, not the comfy chair’.

        • Bill 3.1.2.2
          18 August 2018 at 7:18 pm

          …being relentlessly bagged by a self proclaimed left leaning publication…

          Hmm. The Guardian has never claimed to be anything other than a liberal publication promoting a liberal, not left, perspective.

          • Pat 3.1.2.2.1
            18 August 2018 at 7:30 pm

            given recent examples that may be a fair appraisal…however…

            “The status quo among the quality press was irrevocably altered by the launch of the Independent in 1986. Capturing the centre ground between the Guardian on the left and the Times and Telegraph on the right, the Independent attracted big name writers and readers with a modern design and distribution network that made the most of the post-union market”

            https://www.theguardian.com/gnm-archive/2002/jun/06/1

            • Bill 3.1.2.2.1.1
              18 August 2018 at 10:04 pm

              Just look up “the Guardian’s” take on its own history. They are proudly and very committed liberals (est 18??). People may have their own take on what that means in terms of “left” and what not, but hey….

              • Pat …
                18 August 2018 at 10:07 pm

                that quote is from exactly that….History of the Guardian..by the Guardian…at the Guardian.

                • Bill …
                  18 August 2018 at 11:41 pm

                  Christ Pat. Same piece.

                  The Manchester Guardian was founded by John Edward Taylor in 1821 and first published on 5 May of that year. The paper was intended to promote the liberal interest in the aftermath of the Peterloo Massacre,…</blockquote.

                  And you wanna look up their support or otherwise of the SDP?

      • Gabby 3.1.3
        18 August 2018 at 2:12 pm

        I wonder who in his view is more charismatic. Nice suits don’t strike me as charismatic.

    • Morrissey 3.2
      18 August 2018 at 4:21 pm

      Te Reo, your comment is not only grossly ill-judged unfair, it’s almost as foolish as your support a while back for that chickenhawk Hillary Benn.

    • Ed 3.3
      18 August 2018 at 4:23 pm

      The Guardian has been running a ‘get Corbyn campaign’ for 2 years.
      It is not impartial.

  4. Agora 4
    18 August 2018 at 1:13 pm

    This narrative pre-dates the state of Israel
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)
    and has local echoes with the appointment of Ferguson as Governor General,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Fergusson,_Baron_Ballantrae
    having served in Malaya,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency
    Palestine,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)
    and Suez
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

    Churchill came under pressure from his own north London Jewish constituency during the Palestine emergency to create Israel. Hodge is not the first heavy hitter, and won’t be the last.

    Corbyn’s advisors could do a lot worse than read Churchill’s memoirs.

  5. joe90 5
    18 August 2018 at 2:44 pm

    Richard Silverstein, long time critic of Israel, reckons Netanyahu’s stickies are all over this.

    Returning to Tunisia, digging up the kinds of pictures used to smear Corbyn and performing the research to determine who is buried in the cemetery is no job for amateurs. No matter how much animus has arisen against Corbyn, no one in Britain has both the means, methods and expertise to do this sort of thing. My strong suspicion is that it was the work of Israeli intelligence operatives. Not necessarily the Mossad itself, though that’s a possibility. But certainly current or former intelligence operatives working on behalf of official Israeli agencies. The Strategic Affairs ministry immediately comes to mind. It is headed by Gil Erdan and his deputy, former military censor Sima Vaknin-Gil. They have publicly boasted that they are hiring such agents to mount sabotage campaigns against international targets supporting BDS and other forms of anti-Israel “delegitimization.”

    https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2018/08/17/israeli-attempts-to-overthrow-corbyn-and-other-foreign-leaders/

  6. Adrian Thornton 6
    18 August 2018 at 3:09 pm

    You gotta love Finkelstein, never one to pull his punches.

    I think that like the unrelenting media smear campaign against Corbyn pre the UK election, this hatchet job is failing to gain very much real traction outside of the media and political class, when one takes into consideration the huge amount of ink dedicated to this ridiculous antisemite bullshit, not much of their mud slinging has stuck it would seem, well according to the polls.
    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/08/16/has-jeremy-corbyn-wreath-laying-controversy-change/

    Here is a good piece on what is looking like the new paradigm in UK politics vs media

    The rise of Corbyn’s Labour party and the eclipse of the Tory media
    https://doc-research.org/2018/03/rise-corbyns-labour-party-eclipse-tory-media/

    “For the Right in Britain, fake news, vicious trolling and unsubstantiated allegations are not innovations of the digital age. Instead, these techniques were perfected in analogue times for attacking its opponents on the Left. Heavily subsidised by advertising, Tory newspapers secured a mass readership for the rabidly reactionary politics of their extremely rich owners with a seductive mix of human interest stories, celebrity gossip and sports coverage. As a public service broadcaster, the BBC was legally obliged to offer a more balanced coverage of the party contest, but its journalists all too often followed the lead of their openly partisan colleagues from the print media. Lacking alternative sources of information, the British electorate has repeatedly been persuaded by smears and lies to vote in large numbers against its own class interests”

  7. Ed 7
    18 August 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Finkelstein was on George Galloway’s show yesterday.

    Starts at 7:50

    http://talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1534528800#

    • Bewildered 7.1
      18 August 2018 at 5:30 pm

      Filkelstein also likes cats as well then

      • weston 7.1.1
        18 August 2018 at 8:31 pm

        That the best you can do bewildered ??Its often said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit ..dunno why cause sometimes its funny but if you ask me SNIDE is plumbing the depths .

  8. Lettuce 8
    18 August 2018 at 4:09 pm

    An interesting and informative (but long!) article on the BDS movement. It’s surprisingly impartial given that it’s been published in the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/14/bds-boycott-divestment-sanctions-movement-transformed-israeli-palestinian-debate

  9. Wayne 9
    18 August 2018 at 4:15 pm

    When a senior Labour MP accuses her leader of being an anti Semite, it can’t be just dismissed as fake news. While the issue may or may not have an effect on Labour’s electoral chances (I simply don’t know) that is not the only lens to view the issue.

    It seems to me that Labour has a real issue to deal with. The UK with a PM who is deeply opposed to Israel would be pretty problematic. It would go to the heart of the western alliance in a general sense.

    While I appreciate that would be a reason for rejoicing among many Standardnistas, I would see it as a huge problem for western unity generally. Effectively it would break up the western alliance which leads deeply into unknown territory.

    • Ed 9.1
      18 August 2018 at 4:22 pm

      Of course Wayne.
      You would say that.

    • Morrissey 9.2
      18 August 2018 at 4:28 pm

      When a senior Labour MP accuses her leader of being an anti Semite, it can’t be just dismissed as fake news.

      Yes it can. She’s a merciless liar. I’ll bet if someone accused YOU of something outlandish and without a skerrick of evidence to support it, you’d be bawling “Fake news!” loudly and unremittingly.

      BREEN COMMENTS:
      Until I read this comment by this ridiculous, discredited old fool, I thought Te Reo Putake had contributed the most disgusting comment on this thread.

      • Ed 9.2.1
        18 August 2018 at 4:31 pm

        A disgraceful comment by Wayne.
        How low can he go?

        • Morrissey 9.2.1.1
          18 August 2018 at 4:36 pm

          Much lower, sadly. He and Dame Margaret Hodge would be a good pair.

          She’s the most repulsive person to ever sport the title “Dame Margaret”, by the way. Quite an achievement, considering the competition.

        • Wayne 9.2.1.2
          18 August 2018 at 6:10 pm

          Why is it disgraceful? Simply to say it is not fake news, and that if the UK turns its back on Israel that will be problematic for the west generally.
          You may not agree with it, but it is hardly disgraceful.
          If you think it is disgraceful to express such a view, that probably why the whole issue is so problematic for UK Labour.

          • Morrissey 9.2.1.2.1
            18 August 2018 at 6:53 pm

            The onus is on Hodge, and her willing megaphones like you, to prove these wild claims. You have not done so. You are, therefore, a liar.

            • Wayne 9.2.1.2.1.1
              18 August 2018 at 7:12 pm

              I don’t know whether Corbin is antisemite or not. It was Dame Hodge (and many others) who have said he is.
              But he sure is anti Israel and pro Palestine. Not too much doubt on that.
              If he is PM (and he could easily be) in my view he will be a threat to western unity. Will he do any lasting damage in a five year term? Hard to say, but I guess we will find out.

              • Morrissey …
                18 August 2018 at 7:14 pm

                He is not antisemitic, and you do know it. You are a liar.

              • Anne …
                18 August 2018 at 7:41 pm

                I don’t know whether Corbin is antisemite or not. It was Dame Hodge (and many others) who have said he is.
                But he sure is anti Israel and pro Palestine. Not too much doubt on that.

                And there-in lies the problem Wayne.

                One can be pro-Jewish people but anti the current Israeli government.
                They are two different things. As someone who is non Jewish but who had Jewish relatives in England I fall into this category.

                From my reading of Jeremy Corbyn that is precisely his conundrum.

                ‘Dame’ Margaret Hodge comes across to me as deliberately creating mischief for Corbyn and for personal political gain. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

                Incidentally, what did she get a dame-hood for?

                • Morrissey …
                  18 August 2018 at 7:47 pm

                  Anne, Wayne knows all that perfectly well. You are speaking in good faith, he is not. He thinks he’s still obliged to lie habitually, as he did when he was Minister of “Defence”. Old habits die hard, clearly.

                  • sumsuch …
                    19 August 2018 at 2:06 am

                    Nope, he’s sincere, just following ‘his (dim) lights’. I do appreciate his willingness to enter the lists, unlike 99 % of ‘luminaries’.

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                  19 August 2018 at 9:04 pm

                  Why do hate women who speak truth to power? You’re always so rough on women who question men at the top of power structures.

                  Is there an underlying religious reason you side with the Palestinians?

                  • Anne …
                    20 August 2018 at 10:48 am

                    Who said I always side with the Palestinians. There are occasions when I think they goad the Israelis to take certain courses of action – and vice versa. In fact, it seems to me to be an eternal merry-go-round where both sides remain intransigent and refuse to genuinely negotiate a lasting peace deal with the other.

                    I have sympathy for Israel’s geographical position. They are a tiny country with narrow borders which must make them feel extremely vulnerable. I guess that is the reason they are surrounding themselves with protective buffer zones. On the other hand, they’re stealing the lands of their Palestinian neighbours by force, and I can also appreciate the fury that has been stirred up because of it.

                    As for your first sentence… straight out of that large hole in your head where your brain would be if you had one. Lies and innuendo – the hall marks of a right wing troll devoid of any rational thought so has to resort to ad hominems.

              • gnomic …
                19 August 2018 at 12:50 am

                A former minister in a National Party government wrote thusly.

                “The UK with a PM who is deeply opposed to Israel would be pretty problematic. It would go to the heart of the western alliance in a general sense. While I appreciate that would be a reason for rejoicing among many Standardnistas, I would see it as a huge problem for western unity generally. Effectively it would break up the western alliance which leads deeply into unknown territory.”

                Terra incognita? Somewhat like the space between your ears? What is this ‘western alliance’ of which you speak? And why is the Israeli state so crucial to its existence? I think we should be told. Alas I doubt you are up to the task.

                Western unity??? Bwahahahaa. What colour is the disunity on your planet?

                Do try to be less pompous. And perhaps take up growing lilies or somesuch and leave commentary to those with something useful to say.

                • Wayne …
                  20 August 2018 at 7:56 am

                  Why do I think that if the UK becoming anti Israel will hurt the western alliance (primarily NATO). Because it will cause a deep rift between the UK and the US.
                  The UK under Corbyn is likely to go way beyond criticism of Israel for specific things, and move into an official policy of BDS. Though I suppose Corbyn as PM could have other more important priorities and not seek to change existing UK policy on Israel/Palestine.

              • Kevin …
                19 August 2018 at 5:57 pm

                And therein lies the problem Wayne. The apatheid state of Israel plays the holocaust card as and when it suits them (which to be honest is almost all the time) so anyone who disagrees with anything they say or do is instantly tagged an antisemite. The apartheid state if Israel is NOT above legitimate criticism, as and when required, but subscribing to the IHRA for all intents and purposes removes that right of criticism of anything they say or do all the time.

    • Barfly 9.3
      18 August 2018 at 4:29 pm

      Yeah Wayne

      Zionism good – Palestinians Bad?

      That your spin?

      Second attempt at a post

    • KJT 9.4
      19 August 2018 at 1:36 pm

      I take it Wayne. You support Israeli bombing of Gaza, then?

      Never let principles get in the way of the “Western Alliance”. Eh!

    • smilin 9.5
      22 August 2018 at 8:48 pm

      If the western alliance continues to move in a corrupt direction as it has since 9/11 the truth of its outcome will just continue until the racial religious groupings ultimately destroy democracy And we will have gone back so far in time that the reality shock of it will be something akin to pagan europe
      And all this is the fallout from 9/11 the greed of arms selling and the destruction of the Arab nations est under the British mandate
      The US support for Israel merly to secure the oil so that the west can continue especially the US to pay next to nothing for it as they have when their supplies were plentiful
      Europe is filling up with muslims running from genocide and war because the west cannot stop what they started and they were warned it would be of their own making But do any of those now in power really have the power to control the MIC?

  10. Barfly 10
    18 August 2018 at 4:26 pm

    Yeah sure Wayne,

    Zionism good Palestinians Bad

    That sums it up for you?

  11. Morrissey 11
    18 August 2018 at 4:58 pm

    “A series of increasingly absurd propositions.”

  12. Philj 12
    18 August 2018 at 5:57 pm

    I hear reported, Jeremy, once sat on a German toilet. This is a very bad look, and must not get leaked to the MSM. Lol

  13. Morrissey 13
    18 August 2018 at 7:36 pm

    The Blairite rump’s absurd and cynical attack on Corbyn is brilliantly dissected here

    The whole thing is worth watching, but especially Norman Finkelstein, who begins at the 40:07 mark….

    Some very good comments from the chat thread on the right hand side of the YouTube page. e.g.

    schumiisking:​ i’ve still not been able to find 1 person who can give me evidence of a labour party member being racist to jewish people. … This is a “huge row” because Corbyn has been apologising instead of saying “this is fake news, no comment”

    • weston 13.1
      18 August 2018 at 10:29 pm

      Thanks for that Morrissey enjoyed every minute nice to see such switched on young dudes talk through the issues so thoroughly in a pretty much ego less pleasantly informal setting .top marks .

  14. sumsuch 14
    19 August 2018 at 2:35 am

    Incensed by possible offence — if you go into it further enough — against Jews but not plutocracy. Good one Brit Labour. The electorate, being educated by Trump, concentrate on what matters rather than imperfections in humans.

    I’d like to see Brit Left criticism of the Guardian’s attitude to Corbyn since they know more about it than us.

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