Health & safety of workers is apparently about Cones

Written By: - Date published: 11:19 am, June 15th, 2024 - 37 comments
Categories: act, health and safety, workers' rights - Tags:

ACT MP and Minister for Employment and Safety, Brooke van Velden has announced a “consultation” on our Health & Safety laws, saying this :

Our health and safety culture can be summed up by the sea of orange road cones that have taken over the country. From Santa parades to property development, you can’t get a lot done without having to set up a barricade of cones.”

And.

Businesses and community organisations spend a huge amount of money trying to keep people safe, but it’s worthwhile asking: are the rules and expectations proportionate to the actual risks, and when should common sense prevail?”

She says she is travelling up and down the country in her consultation. Betcha she won’t meet with unions, or workers, or visit a meat works, or forestry, or a mine, or a construction site.

To say this has triggered me is putting it mildly. She has never had to represent a worker who had a meat hook in his head, she has never gone to a tangi for a worker who died in a freezer, or sat with the forestry families as yet another one of their whanau are killed and mourned to this day.

She certainly never went near Pike River Mine where the memories, tragedies and unresolved issues still remain – and which gave rise to our current Health & Safety law.

She has never had to talk to a truck driver’s family who has driven off the road because they were exhausted and worked too many hours.

She has never had to mourn a workmate who fell off a scaffold because the railings were scrimped upon, or another who was injured permanently.

We all know the government is a disgrace, but putting this privileged woman in charge of health & safety, when she has never been out of a well-paid office makes me sick. I never, ever thought we would have this battle all over again.

But of course it’s about business, not people.

37 comments on “Health & safety of workers is apparently about Cones ”

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  1. Rodel 1
    15 June 2024 at 11:34 am

    Van Velden and Seymor epitomize the theme in a 1959 movie, 'I'm alright Jack' where the worker who climbs the corporate ladder and lands a well paid job says, ' .Pull up the ladder,- I'm OK' ( except I doubt that either of them have ever been a real worker. To critics of 'lazy' road workers I say, ' So was it different when you worked on the roads?'

  2. roblogic 2
    15 June 2024 at 11:45 am

    ChatGPT, please draw me a picture of Seymour and crew speeding through road works at 120 km/h and yelling "work harder!" out of the window, while the underpaid workers are getting messages from mates in Australia telling them to leave this abusive relationship

  3. Anne 3
    15 June 2024 at 11:52 am

    I stand with you Darien.

    Its not just a disgrace. It's an insult to every working man and woman in this country to have such a mind-blowingly ignorant, shallow individual as Minister for Employment and Safety. Her knowledge and experience appears not to extend beyond the presence of orange and red cones which are there for a purpose – to prevent accidents occurring.

    She's an embarrassment!

    • cathyo 3.1
      15 June 2024 at 12:32 pm

      but is there anyone else in this business people's government who is more qualified? i think they have all worked behind a desk all their life

      • Belladonna 3.1.1
        17 June 2024 at 10:20 am

        I would say that this is true for 98%+ of all NZ politicians – from all political parties.

        I can't think of one who's been a truck driver, a scrub nurse, a road worker, or a cleaner. Even those with pre-parliamentary careers tend to have been lawyers, political analysts, unionists, teachers, or business owners – all 'behind the desk' jobs.

    • kejo 3.2
      15 June 2024 at 12:40 pm

      Yes, but it,s more personal for her. She finds orange cones an inconvenience and unsightly.

    • Michael P 3.3
      15 June 2024 at 10:27 pm

      "…to every working man and woman in this country to have such a mind-blowingly ignorant…"

      Speak for yourself please. Myself and I'm certain a majority of working men and women understand what this is actually about.

      Health and safety requirements in many areas have gone far beyond appropriate, effective and common sense requirements. There are now a myriad of requirements that are essentially box ticking and arse covering lists. A huge amount of money is now soaked throughout the health and safety industry (that is what it is) so will be difficult to change.

      You have to wonder how we ever survived or got things done more than 20 years ago.

      As for cones…. Don't get me started. Firstly if you don't live in and drive a lot in Auckland then you simply won't understand.

      Secondly.. Again, how did we ever survive or get anything done before cones became a 'necessity', and before PPE?

      Thirdly.. I really wish I had been as forward looking as the person who started manufacturing traffic cones and managed to get their use written into laws requiring them on everything. I bet he/she is a multi millionaire many times over!!

      Fourthly.. (gasp) .. I don't know what you do for a living Anne or whether you live in Auckland, but in the trades and industries where physical and manual work is done, the rules and regulations around health and safety have become ridiculously excessive, costly and hugely expensive.

      Yes we need health and safety laws and rules. Yes, industries must do everything they can to try and ensure the safety of workers and yes there should be minimum standards that have to be met in many areas. But you'd have to be completely out of touch if you thought that in Auckland, the invasion of traffic cones wasn't a serious issue for the working class…..

      • Rodel 3.3.1
        16 June 2024 at 2:16 am

        'You have to wonder how we ever survived or got things done more than 20 years ago.'Spoken like a true blue tory.

        We got things done by killing at least two workers a week in ndustrial accidents usually but not always men with a .family of kids. Yeah let's go back to the good old days.

      • Anne 3.3.2
        16 June 2024 at 10:41 am

        .. I don't know what you do for a living Anne or whether you live in Auckland, but in the trades and industries where physical and manual work is done, the rules and regulations around health and safety have become ridiculously excessive, costly and hugely expensive.

        I live in Auckland but, unlike you, I know the work presently being undertaken – and all the safety precautions that are in place – are there to keep the workers safe from people like you. I also have the ability to see beyond the cones etc. – which is more than you can say for that "mind blowingly" stupid minister – and that the end result will be bigger and better infrastructure to cater for the rapidly increasing population. It's called "forward planning' and it comes at a cost.

        The amusing aspect of this conversation is: it will be the Micheal Ps of this world who will rant ad infinitum over the lack of adequate infrastructure should the powers that be do nothing.

      • mpledger 3.3.3
        16 June 2024 at 11:53 am

        When people do Health and Safety right then all it becomes is form filling and ticking boxing but that because Health and Safety has become ingrained into the work culture and normalised. But to make Health and Safety become second nature, the rules and guidelines have to be put in place and followed first.

        Health and Safety is the thing you realise you need when you no longer have it.

      • Vivie 3.3.4
        16 June 2024 at 3:52 pm

        The Government's review of health and safety laws seems to be a strategy to help distract and deflect from unpopular policies, National's broken funding promises in the budget, the negative impact on many NZers – particularly on low and middle income workers, beneficiaries and young people, rapidly rising unemployment and huge cuts to public service staff numbers and related services. This is being reflected in the Government's fall in popularity.

        Michael P: re your comment "But you'd have to be completely out of touch if you thought that in Auckland, the invasion of traffic cones wasn't a serious issue for the working class…..". What do you mean?

        Brooke van Velden comes across as superficial. The Right's absurd focus on road cones, and insinuations that people's rights were being restricted, helped stir up anti-Labour sentiment during the election campaign, built up anger and resentment towards road construction workers, and people working in other dangerous areas – e.g. on building sites, public electricity and water supply repairs and maintenance services, with road cones placed to help protect people from risk of injury.

        I live in Auckland and, like many people, I understand that road cones are in place to protect the public and workers during road construction and maintenance work. The cones unfortunately don't stop some drivers speeding through road works with total disregard for the safety of others, as evidenced by injuries, sometimes fatal, to road workers.

        This is how the Right function – encourage division and resentment in society, by implying that people's rights and freedoms to do as they please are being eroded. I'm sure many voters regret being taken in by the cheap tactics of the parties now in Government.

      • Descendant Of Smith 3.3.5
        16 June 2024 at 11:20 pm

        Was at a car rally when some people were moaning about modern health and safety rules came up. As they were bitching and moaning an 80+ year old came up to them who had been listening. The firm he owned in back in the day stopped working on a local and well known building after their third worker died. He simply refused to take the job. He told them while it may seem excessive it really wasn't and when they have to go and tell a staff members wife their husband had been killed, let alone more than once, they may view things differently. His biggest regret was not stopping taking the contract after the first death.

        The other side of this government of course is that at the same time they will be also exerting the power of the state to take these jobs.

        As I've noted before this government thinks there's been a plague.

        Rather than supply some of the needed labor themselves, landowners turned to solutions that might produce the kind of world they were capable of imagining. In England they created first the Ordinance (1349) and then the Statute (1351) of Labourers, which froze wages at pre-plague levels, compelled workers not otherwise engaged in fixed, long-term employment into year-long contracts with the first employer who demanded it, and established penalties to ensure compliance.

        https://history.wustl.edu/news/how-black-death-made-life-better

        "With many state governments reducing unemployment benefits to push workers to fill open jobs, the aim, like England after the Black Death, is to reinstate and reinforce previous social and labor hierarchies, regardless of whose work has actually been “essential” over the past 16 months. "

  4. Mike the Lefty 4
    15 June 2024 at 12:37 pm

    It is just another part of the National Party spin, that capitalises on the general hatred of road cones that one can see in social media.

    The cones are a red herring, they are not the real problem, just something the political right have worked themselves up about through social media.

    The problems with road works are the poor organisation for roadworks and poor traffic control, poor planning and time management. Taking away road cones by itself won't change that – but of course the baying right wing dog pack can't understand that.

    • Michael P 4.1
      15 June 2024 at 10:35 pm

      "The cones are a red herring, they are not the real problem…"

      Ummm, Yeah, of course not. The problem is the excessive rules and regulations which the lobbyists for PPE, Training course providers, Consultants, etc have convinced Governments to implement.

      For example Sitesafe. You pretty much can't get on a site these days without Sitesafe certification / qualifications. Does having a sitesafe certification make you behave any differently on a job site (apart from wearing the PPE and filling out the required paperwork?).

      Whoever created sitesafe and similar organizations is either a genius or is very good at convincing politicians to make their ticket a legal and / or employment requirement..

      • Mike the Lefty 4.1.1
        16 June 2024 at 12:41 pm

        All of which begs the question what will National do to make work sites safer?

        Probably nothing.

  6. Ad 6
    15 June 2024 at 2:11 pm

    NZTA officially shifting from the COPTTM to "risk based approach" to temporary works, together with Minister of Transport unilaterally raising road speeds via legislation, will cause measurable increased death and injury.

    MoT in particular ought to be publishing the evidence, regularly and fearlessly, not folding like origami.

    Worksafe needs to shout its independence from foolish "common sense" knuckledragging.

    • Michael P 6.1
      15 June 2024 at 10:40 pm

      "ought to be publishing the evidence…."

      They would if any evidence existed…..

      “…foolish “common sense” knuckledragging…”

      (sigh)…

      • Ad 6.1.1
        16 June 2024 at 3:03 pm

        Clearly this is the peer reviewed paper you need to read:

        https://acrs.org.au/files/papers/arsc/2022/Understanding-the-role-of-Speeding_33-1.pdf

        It has the evidence for the following:

        – Speeding is substantially under-estimated as a factor in serious crashes in New Zealand’s crash data, and elsewhere

        – Under-reporting of speeding in crashes contributes to under-appreciation of speeding risk by media, community and decision-makers

        – Combining data sources indicates that speeding is involved in around 60% of fatal crashes in New Zealand

        – Speeding kills more people each year in New Zealand than homicides

        – Different data sources on speed and crashes appear inconsistent because they address different questions

        Then there's the direct evidence out of Auckland Transport which found that

        "where speed limits were lowered on 30 June 2020 have experienced a 47 per cent reduction in deaths* in the 18-months following the changes, a reduction in all injury crashes of more than 25 per cent and greater than a 15 per cent reduction in serious injuries on these roads."

        And also found that:

        "Rural roads where speeds were changed on 30 June 2020 have seen a 71 per cent reduction in deaths and more than a 25 per cent reduction in serious injuries."

        https://at.govt.nz/about-us/news-events/evidence-shows-safe-speeds-are-saving-lives#:~:text=%E2%80%9CInternational%20research%20shows%20us%20that,cent%2C%E2%80%9D%20Mr%20Ellison%20says.

        And here's the interim report.

        https://at.govt.nz/media/1990901/aukland-transport-report-24-month-safe-speeds-tranche-1-monitoring.pdf

        Do not EVER come back commenting to me about road safety and road injury and death unless you have better evidence than this and do not waste my fucking time when you are diminishing pain and family damage on this scale.

      • Obtrectator 6.1.2
        16 June 2024 at 11:10 pm

        What Ad said.

        One of the first questions put to the class when I attended my defensive driving course was: what's the main factor affecting stopping distance? With my scientist's understanding of dynamics, the answer seemed blindingly obvious. It was horrifying to see the number who guessed the condition of the road, the weather, the efficiency of your brakes, etc, etc.

        The speed one is going at didn’t seem to occur to many at all.

        Awareness would appear not to have improved much in the intervening 40 years.

    • Bearded Git 6.2
      16 June 2024 at 11:35 am

      +100 Ad.

  7. Incognito 7
    15 June 2024 at 2:14 pm

    Common sense doesn’t necessarily make sense and sometimes it makes no sense.

    https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/about-us/news-and-media/use-common-sense-a-poor-approach-to-health-and-safety/

    • Michael P 7.1
      15 June 2024 at 10:47 pm

      worksafe has now introduced a whole new super duper framework called SafePlus, with it's own training courses, assessors, analysts, software, etc, etc, etc..

      Does anyone not stop to think that this is just a huge revenue generating scam? Either that or the rules, regulations, certifications, training, frameworks, etc they had before SafePlus must have been really reaaly shit if it can be such a huge improvement…

      "use-common-sense-a-poor-approach-to-health-and-safety.."

      Said no sensible person……ever..

      • Michael P 7.1.1
        16 June 2024 at 1:28 am

        Replying to my own comment….coz I can..

        Just the word SafePlus is interesting. It's like they're saying there is 'Safe' and then the 'Plus' indicates there is something beyond that 'Safe', something more than just 'Safe', something better than 'Safe', something Safer….

        As if there is such a thing as safer than safe. You're either safe or you're not, there's no grey area.

        So prior to SafePlus, what they were promoting wasn't safe?

        Worksafe is a complete scam / rort designed to gather in shitloads of money. Government buy-in comes first, thereby giving business (especially big corporations due to their public profiles) no choice but to toe the line.

        • Incognito 7.1.1.1
          16 June 2024 at 11:31 am

          None of your midnight rants is worth TS space and a reply, for that matter.

          For your edification: https://www.worksafe.govt.nz/managing-health-and-safety/businesses/safeplus/about-safeplus/

        • Gareth 7.1.1.2
          16 June 2024 at 12:12 pm

          Here's a thought: Maybe the plus isn't more safety, but adding something else on as well as safety.. the website says that SafePlus has three key elements: leadership, risk management and worker engagement. It also says that it's about assessing the current safety levels of an organisation and then providing a pathway for continuous improvement.
          As for how shit it was before…. our goal is obviously 0 workplace deaths, right?
          https://data.worksafe.govt.nz/graph/detail/fatalities

        • Ad 7.1.1.3
          16 June 2024 at 3:12 pm

          You should be nowhere a workplace and should not be on a worksite.

          Your attitude to health and safety in the workplace tells me you are either a bottom-feeder sole-trade subbie, or a recalcitrant grunt who has an irrational grudge.

          People like you need to go to the Congo cobalt mines to feel at home.

          Make sure you never get in front of an ICAM.

      • Ad 7.1.2
        16 June 2024 at 3:10 pm

        You are a fucking moron with zero credibility.

        I have lived through the trauma of major health and safety incidents including broken bones, loss of sight, near-death, mashed tendons, multiple deaths, media scorching, mass firings, prosecutions, and more. In fact my company deals with it every fucking week.

        And yes, we are one of the best in the business. Our scale means we are held up as an exemplar – as we should be.

        If you are the owner of a company ie are a PCBU and you have an attitude to your workers like that, then I hope you go bankrupt and lose your house and everything in it.

        The fact that this government is trying to start reversing a health and safety culture that has taken neraly a decade to reverse should be enough to have them

        You fucking disgust me.

  8. adam 8
    15 June 2024 at 3:13 pm

    Class war

    I sound like a broken record, but FFS people.

    This is what it looks like, they don't give a rats about who dies or who is hurt. As long as their corporate lords feel their greed being feed.

  9. Binders full of women 9
    15 June 2024 at 8:34 pm

    Speaking of worker's rights, Luxon needs to hurry up and release the report on Dharleen Tana!! Parliament needs her back asap.

    • Bearded Git 9.1
      16 June 2024 at 11:42 am

      Binders-Has Luxon really got that report? I didn't know for one.

      If that is the case he will be dragging it out as long as possible, in the same way that the as-yet-unproven-and-denied claims about TMP using census data illegally has been orchestrated into a major issue and in the same way that the the concerted attack against one of the New Zealand parliament's best performing members for 13 years (Julia-Anne Genter) has also been orchestrated.

  10. roblogic 10
    16 June 2024 at 5:35 pm

    This is 100% the opposite of the culture of Air New Zealand – "Safety is paramount and non negotiable"

    Will Luxon say anything?

  11. tsmithfield 11
    17 June 2024 at 11:07 am

    From someone who runs a small to medium sized business, I think there needs to be changes to make health and safety more workable for smaller businesses.

    We have ISO 45001. But it has cost us around $100k over the last five years to impliment and maintain the policy. So, to do it properly isn't cheap for small businesses.

    I think the fines regime is fine for larger businesses. But, I think that should be applicable to smaller businesses in the case that they have been reckless with respect to health and safety. If smaller businesses are doing what they can, given their much smaller budget, to manage health and safety, then they should be treated differently within the health and safety system. Small businesses simply don't have the resources or capability to meet health and safety requirements to the same degree as large corporates.

    The big problem is that, however careful and diligent businesses are, if something goes wrong, then someone examining exteranally will be able to find something that could have been done better. And a fine becomes inevitable.

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