In defence of Ashley Bloomfield

Written By: - Date published: 8:27 am, June 22nd, 2020 - 155 comments
Categories: australian politics, China, health, national, same old national, us politics - Tags: , ,

Well the last week has been a real roller coaster.

Aotearoa New Zealand has gone from the ecstasy of we have no Covid to the agony that we, at the time of writing, have eight cases of Covid and the first two went on a road trip from Auckland to Wellington, hugged someone who went to a gym and who the f*ck knows where we are now.  So far there is no evidence of community transmission.  Long may it stay that way.

As I previously noted National went to town on the issue.  Michael Woodhouse chose to hold back releasing information about the road trip until the time that it would be of the most political damage.  Sure elements of the Ministry of Health may have also known it but letting the Minister know it immediately would have meant that Wellington could have put its foot down, insisted that the quarantine regime improves its performance, and hopefully reduced the risk of the virus spreading.  Delaying meant he had a great Gotcha moment but the risk of the spread of the virus has now been increased.

But Labour would have done the same I hear you wail.  They also seek to maximise political advantage over contributing to the public good.

I doubt it.

There is this example from 2015 when Andrew Little chose to go to John Key’s office to tell him that there was something remiss with National MP Mike Sabin.  No publicity, no point scoring, just a suggestion he sorts things out.  From my post at the time:

If you ever needed to see the difference between Labour and National then Labour’s handling of the issues surrounding Mike Sabin provides a perfect example.

One of the issues of significance is when did John Key learn about Mike Sabin’s difficulties.  If he knew before the election the question will be why was Sabin reselected and why he was offered the chair of the Law and Order select committee.  After all the media knew about an allegation of assault before the election and had asked questions of Key’s office.

Initially Key declined to say when he first knew of Sabin’s difficulties.  When asked on Friday January 30 he declined to answer this question.  Then on Monday he said that he knew Sabin was “facing personal and family issues” in mid December.  Then he said it was “early December“.  Then on February 3 he said he found out about the “issues” on December 1.

Andrew Little said yesterday morning that he had heard about the issues in late  November, shortly after he became leader.  He was confirmed leader on November 18.  When interviewed he was at a Labour Caucus retreat and did not have the details  with him.  He said that he was received from two sources information that a National MP was under Police investigation and made the decision to alert the Prime Minister’s office.  Little was confident that it was at the end of November, within 10 days of his taking up the role as leader.  By contrast Key had maintained that his office had been informed on December 3, and he made aware of the issue on December 1.  He also maintained that his office already knew about the issue before the time Labour had informed it.

This all turned to shyte for National after Labour supplied a phone log showing that a conversation between McCarten and Eagleson happened on November 26, 8 days after Little became leader and well before the dates Key initially maintained National knew about the issue.

Little also said that Labour did not intend to take the matter further, and they would not be telling anyone else.

Last week Labour chose to go on the counter offensive and said in Parliament that Chris Bishop had advocated for the two women to be released early.

Can I respectfully suggest this was a mistake.  Electorate MPs should be free to advocate on behalf of constituents or their families.  Political links should not be drawn.  I have spent a career advocating for drunk drivers, robbers, burglars, wife beaters and drug addicts.  This does not mean that I approve of their behaviour.

It does however add in a further time point.  It appears that these two women were on National’s radar for quite a few days.  I almost get the impression National wants the quarantine system to fail.

Woodhouse’s source of information appears to be from within the Ministry of Health.  It is a shame they have not put as much effort into doing their job as they have into the leaking of information.

Is Bloomfield to blame?  He feels like part of my extended family.  He has been at the centre of a public service attempt to do what no other nation in the Western World has done and that is give us an insulated but normal life.  In the near future it appears there will be no foreign travel except possibly to the Pacific but at least our communities will be normal and our hospitals and morgues not overrun by people dying from the virus.

Did Bloomfield personally stuff up last week?  Well no.  Auckland’s Health management of the detention areas has been appalling.  But unlike Superman Bloomfield cannot be expected to be everywhere at all times.

Further infections have appeared over the past few days.  But they are all infections from overseas and, apart from the two road trippers, detected while in quarantine.  Last week there were 3,567 people in quarantine or managed isolation so new cases are almost inevitable.

The usual cheerleaders in the media are complaining that things are too strict AND not strict enough.  Please make up your mind.

And hotel guests have expressed frustration.  With the greatest of respect, the world is facing a pandemic and we want to as far as possible keep it out.  Your personal discomfort is the price of maintaining this as best as we can.

Meanwhile we continue to have no detected cases of community spread.  Long may it last.

And to be frank the chances of New Zealand staying disease free are very low.  The virus is a bastard, easily spread and hard to detect.

When you compare what is happening in New Zealand to overseas you still have to marvel at what we have achieved.  The number of cases in the world continues to increase. (graph from Johns Hopkins).

And the US, China, Germany and Australia, the country National was previously cheer leading, have all had increases in their daily infection rates.

Paul Goldsmith’s claim this morning that it is the Government’s fault that because of problems at the border trade cannot resume is a joke.  Just look at the rates for China and India in particular.  Do we really want to resume trade with those countries.  And even Germany, who up to now have handled the outbreak with typical determination is facing a second wave of infections.

There is a legitimate expectation that New Zealand is as close to perfection in terms of its response to the Covid pandemic.  So far we are going pretty well.  Ashley Bloomfield deserves much of the praise.  And yes we as a country need to do even better.  There are a lot of kiwis returning home and some of them have the virus.

Can we do better?  Certainly.  Road trips by Covid infected recent arrivals should not happen.  But so far we can still be very grateful that we are doing as well as we are.

I for one continue to be very grateful of the efforts of Ashley Bloomfield.

155 comments on “In defence of Ashley Bloomfield ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Dennis Frank 1
    22 June 2020 at 8:39 am

    I agree. The behaviour of the Nats on this issue has been despicable (morally) and abysmal (politically). Bloomfield can't be responsible for the (non)performance of other operational staff – unless his employment contract actually says so.

    • Wayne Mapp 1.1
      22 June 2020 at 9:55 am

      Actually both the DG and the Minister are both responsible for the failure of the staff of MOH. It is part of the role of the DG as CE to be responsible. That is why he gets such a high salary.

      Now that is not to say that the DG would have direct knowledge of the failures. But he is responsible for fixing the failures. I personally think the DG has been quick to get on top of this. No human system is perfect, but the DG has done as well as anyone could have possibly done.

      In this case Air Commodore Webb has been appointed to do the actual fix, no doubt with the agreement of the DG, perhaps he was even proposed by the DG.

      In fact the DG has been in the military as an RMO. A very good one at that. He was the RMO in my old unit of 3 Auck North. So the DG would have a very good sense of the capability of the military.

      I suspect that DG concluded that the senior MH staff were not up to managing quarantine. Which is not surprising. I can’t imagine MH staff would have the skill set to manage something like mandatory quarantine. That is more likely within the domain of those used to disciplined organisation.

      • Sacha 1.1.1
        22 June 2020 at 10:03 am

        Many of the workers at quarantine sites would be from regional public health services, not part of the MoH workforce.

        Health sector managers and workers mostly lack the right mindset to be ruthless about quarantine – which is a good thing, the rest of the time. Good to hear that further detail about Ashley's background.

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.2
        22 June 2020 at 10:14 am

        Thanks for that helpful clarification. Doing a fix ain't quite the same as enforcing accountability, of course, so his acting responsibly seems merely in accord with the PM's limited view. I'd prefer to see the omission rectified as well.

      • observer 1.1.3
        22 June 2020 at 11:35 am

        Wayne, thank you for that perspective, including the military experience of the DG. New information to me, and probably others too.

        I don't think any reasonable person can dispute that Dr Bloomfield deserves our respect and appreciation. He certainly has mine.

      • RedLogix 1.1.4
        22 June 2020 at 11:39 am

        Same from me Wayne. And what the others above have said.

    • tania 1.2
      23 June 2020 at 4:11 pm

      I agree. Dr Bloomfield has been dignified and humble throughout. Yes mistakes have been made but we must remember that our generation and the generation before us has never experienced a pandemic like this. None of us were here when the Spanish flu killed 8000 New Zealanders in 1918 except our great parents. Michael Woodhouse is a disappointment. Twice he has used the famous English tabloid phrase "I was told by a reliable scource", which may be construed by many as "I made this all up" We are facing a terrible virus which is killing millions worldwide. Now is not the time for the National Party to make political gain out of every word uttered from the mouth of Dr Bloomfield. He deserves our praise for his outstanding work and so too does Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

    • tania 1.3
      23 June 2020 at 4:23 pm

      I agree. Dr Bloomfield has been dignified and humble throughout. Yes mistakes have been made but we must remember that our generation and the generation before us has never experienced a pandemic like this. None of us were here when the Spanish flu killed 8000 New Zealanders in 1918 except our great grandparents. Michael Woodhouse is a disappointment. Twice he has used the famous English tabloid phrase "I am informed by a reliable source", which could be construed by many as "I am making this all up" We are facing a terrible virus which is killing millions worldwide. Now is not the time for the National Party to make political gain out of every word uttered from the mouth of Dr Bloomfield. He deserves our praise for his outstanding work and so too does Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

  2. Ad 2
    22 June 2020 at 8:39 am

    Look I'm really grateful to him and to the entire clinical staff who kept us going. I'm grateful to the Prime Minister as well.

    But as the comprehensive report from Heather Simpson showed last week, the rest of the health system is a dysfunctional disaster and needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt.

    This is not only on the watch of our fucking useless Minister of Health Dr Clark, but also on the watch of the Director General of Health Dr Blomfield.

    If I get the time I'll do a post on the report and what it's recommending.

    To give just a little glimpse of how crap the system is, we've been waiting for a plan for the Dunedin Hospital to come out of the system and start to get through Consents for the whole of this term.

    They're still dicking around, and there's near-zero chance it will be announced before the election now. They haven't even finished the detailed business case so that it can go to Cabinet.

    As Bill noted in a post a year ago, there is major flooding risk in that site, and ground stabilisation and massive piles are going to be needed.

    Dr Blomfield and Dr Clark are in charge of a system, not just one event.

    The fact that it was held together for a few month by overworked heroes is no reason to let their performance of the health system go un-scrutinised.

    • Sacha 2.1
      22 June 2020 at 9:17 am

      Bloomfield has little power to reshape the health system without the cooperation of the minister. I look forward to seeing what he can do with a competent minister to work with. Sooner would be good.

    • Anker 2.2
      22 June 2020 at 9:40 am

      People criticise David Clark. I certainly did over his lockdown breach.. But if you look at what has been achieved in health under his watch, it’s a lot.

      the Dunedin hospital approved, site chosen, when I was there in December noticed a project office.

      billons of dollars for mental health some new services up and running, incredible given workforce shortages.

      problems at middlemore identified not sure what progress on fixing.

      nurses wage round successfully completed

      reporton health, (Simpson’s). Completed

      new cancer drugs funded and new funding for pharmac

      a cancer agency set up, more money for radiography

      since lockdown many announcements about increasing services

      I think you are buying into the media narrative that he is hopeless without any real evidence.

      he has also be the minister during the pandemic and other than his own personal slip up, there is no evidence his hasn’t performed. If he was bumbling with nothing to offer, then Jacinda would have sacked him

      • Kay 2.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 10:04 am

        Refuses to order an enquiry in Pharmac's behaviour or engage with citizens adversely affected by said behaviour. He hears the word Pharmac and goes AWOL.

        • Sacha 2.2.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 10:10 am

          Of course he has little to say on the subject. Pharmac was deliberately designed to be free from Ministerial interference in its decisions.

          • Kay 2.2.1.1.1
            22 June 2020 at 12:13 pm

            Except when certain PMs are happy to over ride Pharmac's decisions and fund a certain cancer drug as an election bribe.

            • Sacha 2.2.1.1.1.1
              22 June 2020 at 12:17 pm

              And look how well that has been working for us all. Hopefully the new cancer agency will bring some rigour about which spending produces the biggest increases in wellbeing. Clue: it’s not medicines.

      • Ad 2.2.2
        22 June 2020 at 11:52 am

        Minister Clark was firstly almost fired by the Prime Minister, and was according to the Prime Minister only not sacked in May because he was needed on the job. Incompetent.

        Then last week he was removed by the Prime Minister and replaced by Wood on the Covid-19 border response. Incompetent.

        On the Dunedin hospital there is no Cabinet approval, no design, no procurement pathway, and not even a signal that it will be completed by the end of 2026 which is two terms away. Incompetent.

        In terms of mental health services funding, no DHB has been able to fund their own mental health teams out of it. Just ask them.

        The audit over old hospital buildings has been completed, and it is catastrophic.

        Not only should Clark be fired according to the Prime Minister, he should be sacked for making things worse, and not spending what has been allocated.

        Go ahead and defend him , but you're on the wrong side of the PM for evidence to keep him at all.

        • Patricia Bremner 2.2.2.1
          23 June 2020 at 1:00 pm

          Wow Ad, this Minister inherited a poisoned chalice of the Health Ministry which was full of austerity outcomes.

          Has tried to come to grips with all the holes while trying to improve the system.

          Was struck with all the problems of a pandemic, lock down, unrelated IT systems and low paid part time workers employed by DHBs, to pull together a world admired outcome.

          He and Bloomfield have made mistakes, as they are men not Gods.

          A coalition of disparate views has been pulled together and presented calmly clearly with great success yet you say he has failed… how?

          He has called for a report which you say damns him. How? He has already said areas for improvement replacement and change have been identified and work has begun.

          When did retraining support and acknowledgement of growth get thrown out?

          That would be baby and bathwater. We are still in a World Pandemic, so thank goodness Jacinda Ardern is more prescient.

      • marious 2.2.3
        30 June 2020 at 10:03 am

        Thank you for your reply backed by facts. It is going to take some time to address the neglect of the past government. As you point out the PM supports Dr Clark's contribution to the process of improvement in health services going forward.

    • AB 2.3
      22 June 2020 at 9:47 am

      Having bad-faith actors like the National Party on the scene makes it very difficult to have that discussion without giving them an opening, and therefore risking a regression to something worse than what we already have. i.e. a classic lesser of two evils scenario and the same thinking as lies behind the exhortations from many here to support Biden and say nothing to undermine his candidacy, despite his manifold deficiencies

    • left_forward 2.4
      23 June 2020 at 10:04 am

      You clearly haven't read the Health System Review document Ad. It says nothing of the sort – it acknowledges an overall high performing, world leading health system, and then outlines why and how it needs to change.

      I do think however that the health inequities for Maori, rurally isolated, and disability communities are indeed disastrous. However, this has been a failure of all Governments and relates to white colonialism and neo-liberal ideologues. It will be a significant test of the Government's well-being aspirations to tackle systemic racism and move forward on these, in my view brilliant recommendations, and not just focus on the big structural parts, such as DHB reform.

  3. That_guy 3
    22 June 2020 at 8:41 am

    Michael Woodhouse chose to hold back releasing information about the road trip until the time that it would be of the most political damage.

    Michael Woodhouse chose to hold back releasing information about the road trip until the time that it would be of the most political damage.

    Michael Woodhouse chose to hold back releasing information about the road trip until the time that it would be of the most political damage.

    And one more time for luck.

    Michael Woodhouse chose to hold back releasing information about the road trip until the time that it would be of the most political damage.

    This is the story. A National party minister played politics with the health and economy of an entire nation.

    • newview 3.1
      22 June 2020 at 8:27 pm

      That-guy. Does that make the original mistake any less. So fuckin typical. Deflection and blame to lessen the incompetence. Who gives a fuck what Woodhouse said, the Governments auditing of the quarantine conditions was pathetic. Woodhouse isn’t even in the Government for fucks sake.

      • Jum 3.1.1
        23 June 2020 at 12:16 am

        newview

        Woodhouse should be forced to resign. He sat on information about possible COVID 19 positive women who had lied about their travel activities and had put people in North Island at risk.

        What is also unforgivable is the media that didn't spend any time digging into the shabby, dangerous political manipulation Woodhouse, and his boss Muller were indulging in and will continue to do so having been given the green light to behave unconscionably.

        So, I do give a fuck about their getting away with their disgusting factioneering to sway public opinion. So fuck off with your fucking engineering to whitewash them.

      • Unicus 3.1.2
        23 June 2020 at 6:31 am

        A National Party MP interfered in the quarantine system causing these two women to be released

        Own it Woodhouse

  4. I Feel Love 4
    22 June 2020 at 8:45 am

    I too am grateful to Blomfield too, an unenviable job, done well. And I too thought it was pretty low for Bishops role to be unveiled like that. Nice post Mickey.

  5. Craig H 5
    22 June 2020 at 8:50 am

    Shows how fast things turn in politics…

    Also, it's Dr. Bloomfield, not Blomfield.

    [Bugger. I knew that. Now fixed … MS]

  6. Tricledrown 6
    22 June 2020 at 8:52 am

    Ad you are trying to blame this govt for years of under spending especially by National who left the funding at 2008 levels while the population expanded by 20% over 9 yrs.National didn't even cover the inflation increase let alone the massive population increase.

    Then the several billion dollars required for fixing leaky new hospitals caused by Nationals destruction of the building code and the disasterous corruption of privatising of building inspections.

    Canterbury earthquake funding of Mental health was cut in a time of desperate need.

    Nationals tax cuts are paid for by slashing health care,education,housing,policing,safety,etc

    [lprent: This appears to be related to comment #2 ]

    • lprent 6.1
      22 June 2020 at 8:58 am

      The reply button appears to be working – why aren't you using it?

    • Ad 6.2
      22 June 2020 at 10:05 am

      This govt claims, every budget, to have put hundreds of billions into health.

      Not a single stat is improved.

      Buildings are rotting.

      National are preparing to put a Kenworth truck over this government's delivery.

      So they should.

      • Anker 6.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 11:18 am

        What stats aren’t improving Ad?
        do you think the minister can snap his fingers and make it all better? Really?

        huge amount of money for mental health stats aren’t going to look better for a while as we now have the significant effects of the pandemic on mental health.
        i am not defending David c as such, but he has got quite a bit done, including approving funding for hospital units and increasing funding for pharmac for a range of drugs.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.2
        22 June 2020 at 2:40 pm

        Unlike in Civilization, spending money doesn't auto-magically make things. In real life we still need to supply the resources to make those things, still need to plan on how to do it and have the knowledge to do it.

        Increasing spending on health will slowly redirect the health system into doing more. But we also need to put the knowledge that we do have to better use and plan a better health system. Find out where and why things aren't working and then fix them which will take time. Considering that the health system has been destroyed over the last thirty plus years as governments have tried to privatise it more means that it is going to take a lot of fixing.

  7. Imodium 7
    22 June 2020 at 8:55 am

    I find it unbelievable that this government does not know (or does not want us to know) how many of those in quarantine since lockdown have not been tested. Surely there must be a database of all those who have entered quarantine and a database of anyone in NZ who has been tested –should be a simple match to get the result –couple of hours work at the most –not days and days –me thinks they is hiding something……

    • SPC 7.1
      22 June 2020 at 9:04 am

      The reqirement for testing those leaving managed siolation did not occur until June 10.

    • Sacha 7.2
      22 June 2020 at 9:21 am

      Surely there must be a database of all those who have entered quarantine and a database of anyone in NZ who has been tested

      You would not believe how backwards most of the health system's IT infrastructure is. Ancient hardware and software because money was 'saved' by not keeping it up to date. Twenty versions of basic stuff because of the DHB model, not joined up.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 2:43 pm

        Ancient hardware and software because money was 'saved' by not keeping it up to date.

        We have a cheap health system – not a cost effective one. This is something that many haven't worked out yet.

        • Sacha 7.2.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 2:50 pm

          Too many neoliberal managers miss that for something to be 'cost-effective' (a phrase the MoH ones love) it actually has to be effective first.

    • Patricia Bremner 7.3
      23 June 2020 at 2:44 pm

      All past returnees were on 14 day self isolation until Level 2, on June 9, when testing was introduced. 55 people were given early part release for a variety of reasons ..about 1% of the 20 000 returnees. The response? no more early releases why? because hysteria on the part of some in the press was causing public anxiety. Headings like "Hero to Zero." What hyperbole.

  8. Sabine 8
    22 June 2020 at 8:57 am

    Maybe its time to anounce the number of people in isolation/quarantine every day just like it was done with the cases of infection/probable infection.

    At least would put some sort of context to the number of cases that test positive and maybe reduce the fear that is percolating up again.

    Secondly, maybe in stead of exemption on grounds of compassion we need better rules – and these rules then are binding – funerals, weddings, babtism, etc are part of what makes us humans. so unless we want to give these traditions up cause Covid -19 we need to find rules on how to go about this safely.

    Maybe we need to make returning kiwis aware of what awaits them in NZ, i.e. quarantine – no you don't get to choose where, no leaving the premises until the two weeks are over, you get so many tests, no matter how much you complain. Rejoice tho, you are at home and no longer in the UK, US, India etc. and thus much safer.

    At the moment, – my experience speaking with customers – no one seems to know how this works, who takes care of these people once they get of the plane and so on and so forth,

    And if we have an issue with the managing these quarantine centres by Civilians in Hotels, use the Defense Forces, they have admin staff that can do the job of booking in, managing the stay and releasing of quarantine, have medical staff – nurses and doctors – should someone fall ill and need help, and in my opinion would be the best to sternly state : No Ma'am Sir you may not leave the premises, you may not do this or that and …..:) .

    This is the challenge of this government – not the lockdown – but the management of this crisis without loosing our humanity. As this illness, this virus in some form or another is going to be with us for a long time and we have not got the slightest incling when we will have understood it enough to manage the illness. Maybe it pays to look at HIV/AIDs – it is still with us, and we still have cases as people still refuse to use condoms for their protection – this should give us an idea just how hard it is to get people to do the right thing.

    As for National, they will exploit the tiniest error, mis-step, complication because this is all they got. They have no ideas, no talent, no leader/s, heck they are washed up and of no use. But if they lose their jobs, they too will be most likely unemployed in this Covid 19 depression. And at 6 figures anual pay, they will throw dirt and fling shit as much as they can.

    • SPC 8.1
      22 June 2020 at 9:12 am

      The simplest measures are easier to apply.

      Question – how to keep week one and week two people separate during quarantine?

      Answer – week one kept in their rooms, week two allowed out.

      • Sabine 8.1.1
        22 June 2020 at 11:45 am

        Well if it were that easy then we would have not hte issues we have.

        Fact is nothing is easy about this virus, and the resulting health issues that will plague this world for a long time.

        So maybe we need clear measures, clear rules, and then have these applied without 'exemption' becuase we won't need exemptions anymore, cause …rules and regulations.

        • SPC 8.1.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 12:51 pm

          Well if it were that easy then we would have not hte issues we have.

          It probably is, so at some point they will get around to something like this.

          You have to have been in a bureaucracy to know it takes time for common sense to become practice. Someone in the system has to make an effort to effect change.

  9. SPC 9
    22 June 2020 at 9:01 am

    First there is policy.

    In retrospect there should have been testing before leaving managed siolation when we went to Level 2.

    As for Implementation

    We went from no testing in the managed isolation to requiring two tests on specific days – day 3 and day 12 – this FROM JUNE 10.

    Bureaucrats could consider this meant only those who arrived from June 10 would be subject to Level 1 rules not those in quarantine before June 10.

    To prevent such things – you say those who arrived into managed isolation pre June 10 – have to be tested before they leave (their day 12).

    The sisters were here under the pre June 10 rules which did not require testing before leaving or early exemption – so it is easy to see what happened if there was no instruction to require a test for those here before June 10.

    Why no one in the MSM bothered to think this through is telling – as to lack of investigative journalism or even sign of thought – its either advocacy for someone or a herd gotcha lynch mob mentality.

    Advocating for early release when there was no testing, then complaining someone was let out without a test while staff in the hotels were working out new procedure is somehow a service of media to our safety is risible. It seems they are really venting their frustration at being unpopular during the lockdown- while Jacinda and Ashley were popular. So they want to pose as public champions and go get them back when there is a sign of increased risk because of a failure in implementation – a failure their earlier campaign contributed to (as in forcing the availability of early release).

    It's frankly like immature behaviour at a girls school.

    • Sabine 9.1
      22 June 2020 at 9:08 am

      What do you mean by that?

      while staff in the hotels were working out application procedure

      surely anything to do with quarantine in Hotels is handled by some government critter and not by some minimum wage paid front office clerk who generally is trained to handles guests booking and the breakfast buffet?

      • SPC 9.1.1
        22 June 2020 at 9:20 am

        Bureaucrats in the hotel follow rules

        1. if it says from June 10, they do not apply them to those who arrived before June 10. 2. they did not do testing in the hotels pre June 10, the HB did the testing, so they had to develop this function using staff not working for them (at that time).

        In some cases, we now know of, people were not tested on their third day – presumably they did testing of people on their 4th/5th and 6th days later to catch up – once their regimes were finally set up.

    • Rosemary McDonald 9.2
      22 June 2020 at 9:32 am

      It's frankly like immature behaviour at a girls school.

      Misogyny much?

      • SPC 9.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 9:40 am

        And that is my point, there are serious issues and that is what you respond with.

        Apparently you have an issue with me over something and use that to as they say, de-platform by some sort of labelling. A bit like media still sulking over relative popularity during the lockdown.

        • solkta 9.2.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 9:45 am

          Many would consider misogyny a serious issue also.

          • SPC 9.2.1.1.1
            22 June 2020 at 9:51 am

            Is it misogyny to use such a reference?

            I would have thought that it is well known that some activity on social media is teenage female on female bullying – so much so it is regarded as a mental health issue of some concern.

            • RedLogix 9.2.1.1.1.1
              22 June 2020 at 9:54 am

              Don't worry SPC, if you are a white, liberal male you will always be guilty regardless of what you do. It's part of their religion.

              • SPC …
                22 June 2020 at 10:06 am

                It reminds me of Taika W posting a link to a video comment of a black American on the recent US events, he was then attacked for the impudence of daring to think, that he a non black, would know what was a good or bad comment on the issue.

                PS I am not sure you are liberal like me, so [Please, peace to everyone, comment deleted – MS] (your support for a government not National is still appreciated).

                • RedLogix …
                  22 June 2020 at 10:15 am

                  lol … there you go, that should cancel the momentary misogyny lapse. At least for a while yes. Happy to help out.

                  • SPC …
                    22 June 2020 at 10:30 am

                    Now you accuse me of a momentary misogyny lapse, as if you (or any conservative) would know the difference between a momentary misogyny lapse and a lifestyle choice …

                    Maybe I should take offence, after all the offended seem to be occupying the higher ground these days. So much so that a certain curmudgeon type refer to criticism af aging white men as, sexist, racist and ageist.

                    • RedLogix …
                      22 June 2020 at 10:54 am

                      I'm not the one who started off down the misogyny path this morning. Still I think you will find the original white male sin doctrine of the far left doesn't allow for any nuanced distinctions between, 'momentary lapses' and 'lifestyle choice'.

                      You can be as offended as you like, but it confers no lasting immunity. As Dennis is finding out on OM where the outrage goons are queuing up to have a go.

                    • SPC …
                      22 June 2020 at 11:19 am

                      It was intended, the term had relevant meaning, so it was appropriate. Truth is not a lapse.

                      Yup it is lack of nuance that leads a retreat into tribalism/identity groups – a bit like the portrayal of teenage life at high school (Twilight wolf pack or vampire coven spoof of the choice a girl has to make).

                      It's the herd belonging instinct of the emerging adult, a state some remain in as adults, collectively all those isms (race, religion political creed included), and of course, then nationalism.

                  • swordfish …
                    22 June 2020 at 12:16 pm

                    Red

                    Year Zero's so close they can almost taste it.

                    Cultural Revolution, Baby. Maoist Struggle Sessions … Ritualised Public Humiliations … Permanent Moral Panics … Things are looking swell.

                    Woke Millennials reaching a state of euphoric frenzy as they wait expectantly for the Intersectional Rapture … the sweet acrid smell of Book-Burning heralding the End Times for all Heteronormative Heretics.

                    Finally,,with the guidance of Archbishop Crenshaw & Bishop DiAngelo, their Righteousness will be rewarded — and the hitherto Marginalised, Oppressed & Downtrodden Ex-Boarding School Girls & Boys that dominate Intersectional Activism will emerge triumphant.

                    What could be more "Left-Wing" than the highly Privileged off-spring of the Establishment weilding total power & control and having society cater to their every momentary whim ?

                    • RedLogix …
                      22 June 2020 at 12:34 pm

                      Yes. I think Dennis nailed it this morning "culture wars as mass entertainment".

                      Yet I remain hopeful; the intent behind eliminating racism, sexism and all the other 'isms is not a bad one. The argument is really over the direction to take in which to get there. It's solvable problem.

                • I Feel Love …
                  22 June 2020 at 2:45 pm

                  No, regarding Taikas tweet, it was his use of the "eloquent black man" phrase that ppl went shit over, because it's offensive to black ppl, now not being black, I wouldn't have known that, which is why sometimes, it's better to keep ones mouth shut and listen, before giving a group of ppl (that you're not part of) advice on how you think they should move forward.

                  • SPC …
                    22 June 2020 at 2:58 pm

                    So it was this from an eloquent black man, rather than this is an eloquent comment from name, that offended people.

                    it's better to keep ones mouth shut and listen, before giving a group of ppl (that you're not part of) advice on how you think they should move forward.

                    He did not do that, just the link to the video.

                  • SPC …
                    24 June 2020 at 9:57 am

                    Watch the whole thing. Eloquent. Clear. Everyone is angry but there is a way to direct that anger

                    Looking at the tweet, he did not say eloquent black man at all either.

                    https://twitter.com/TaikaWaititi/status/1266963946168135680

          • Rosemary McDonald 9.2.1.1.2
            22 June 2020 at 9:57 am

            And one that just won't go away.

        • Sabine 9.2.1.2
          22 June 2020 at 11:15 am

          well you could have just called it a Kindergarten, which would make your point in a nice non gender bashing way.

          • SPC 9.2.1.2.1
            22 June 2020 at 11:23 am

            Say it is not so, it begins as early as that today? I am only informed of the metaphor from American film/TV and comment of the harm to girls from social media attacks by other girls.

            The existence of the problem behind the metaphor is the problem,

            • Sabine 9.2.1.2.1.1
              22 June 2020 at 11:47 am

              look, you said what you said.

              you could have said immature boys grammar school, but you did not. You took a loaded term, with intend or not – who cares and you have been called out by it.

              I stand by what i said, use Kindergarten in the future, same meaning, but gender neutral.

        • Patricia Bremner 9.2.1.3
          22 June 2020 at 12:20 pm

          SPC, Wiser to say school children devil

          • SPC 9.2.1.3.1
            22 June 2020 at 12:38 pm

            The more childish of high school factions, who use social media to bully their victim. And so no one would think girls.

    • mauī 9.3
      22 June 2020 at 1:16 pm

      Calling it a diverse, average decile, co-ed school would have been better. Otherwise it looks plain odious to me.

      • SPC 9.3.1
        22 June 2020 at 2:11 pm

        In the end the Archie Bunker reactionary and the modern social media reactionary join together in conformist authoritarianism. Something George Orwell observed while in Spain.

  10. roblogic 10
    22 June 2020 at 9:16 am

    Where's the Open Mike post for this morning?

  11. xanthe 11
    22 June 2020 at 9:31 am

    Eeeeck my biggest question now having observed the actions of media and National is …. What steps are being taken to forestall outright sabotage of our border controls by disaffected spin doctors.

  12. ianmac 12
    22 June 2020 at 9:32 am

    Our family is grateful for our continued safety and heartfelt thanks go to Ashley Bloomfield and team. We despise the carping petty point-scoring of some journalists and rats like Woodhouse.

  13. Treetop 13
    22 June 2020 at 9:40 am

    The pressure that Bloomfield and the PM are under is immense due to Covid-19 being unprecedented and how sneaky the virus is. It does not matter to the virus which political party is in government or who the Director General of Health is. What matters is that isolation and quarantine is done properly to avoid a community outbreak.

    There is always the uncertainty that a cluster is forming in the community and the impact of this.

    Were Woodhouse in charge I do not know how he would have managed the exemption. How he delivered the message was not how he needed to act. Woodhouse needed to promptly contact Bloomfield because of having information which could cause a community outbreak. This would have been the best way to prevent a potential community outbreak and I would have been impressed by Woodhouse being sensible and not playing politics over a serious issue.

  14. Bearded Git 14
    22 June 2020 at 9:40 am

    Agree entirely re Bloomfield-he is Mr. Steady-the-ship No.2. (Kane being No.1 of course)

    But I disagree on Bishop. It was in the public's interest to know about this because it is a bit murky.

    Bishop clearly lobbied vigorously for the 2 UK women to be given compassionate exemption because they were friends of a friend of his in the UK. The two women/sisters were NOT constituents of Bishop-Bishop lied here and the media let him get away with this. (Hey Tova-why should we ever believe a word Bishop says in the future?)

    Bishop has not released any of the text of his contacts between him and his friend in the UK, between him and the 2 women and between him and the quarantine centre managers. Why is this?

    There is also a question as to why one of the women hid her Covid-19 symptoms. One wonders if Bishop knew she had symptoms-didn't he ask? If not why not?

    • satty 14.1
      22 June 2020 at 10:17 am

      Completely agree.

      Why isn't there a journalist checking the whole story around the UK women?

      I'm not well "connected" here in Wellington and know a lot more about this than the media is providing – or shall we say hiding – so far. Surely if there's an article about the Mob funeral "runaways", there can be an article about the "every changing story" of C. Bishop's closely connected people.

      It must be imperative for the public safety to know if the latest version of their story is accurate to ensure we captured all potential contacts. Also to ensure that in the future "distressed" people, unable to remember the "highlight of their trip" meeting some friends, are not allowed to drive for over 8 hours non-stop, on roads they don't know, in a car they don't know.

      • Sacha 14.1.1
        22 June 2020 at 10:20 am

        I'm not well "connected" here in Wellington and know a lot more about this than the media is providing

        Do tell, please..

    • gsays 14.2
      22 June 2020 at 7:05 pm

      Perhaps Bishop was advocating for the parent.

  15. Tricledrown 15
    22 June 2020 at 9:56 am

    Ashley Bloomfields leadership has saved us from a massive disaster as 30 years of under spending and large cuts to health spending in the last 9 years a 20% cut in health spending have left our health system unable to cope with even a moderate outbreak of any pandemic.

    If NZ hadn't followed the leadership we would be still in lock down and the death toll would have been in the 1,000's many Doctors and Nurses as has happened in other countries where 25% of healthcare workers infected because of overwhelming .

    NZ was found to be at the bottom of the OECD 30 the along with the US the lowest number of ICU beds and ventilators only a 150 across the whole country.

    Nationals sinking lid policy is designed to force people into the American model of private health insurance which cost 3 times as much to provide only available to those who can afford it.That is Nationals policy to run down the public health system .Woodhouse a private hospital manager is National privitising henchman out to destroy the public health system at all costs tax cuts to help its demise.

    • Tiger Mountain 15.1
      22 June 2020 at 10:13 am

      Good points Tricledown. The lockdown seems to have saved exposing the true state of the public system so far. A previous Nat Minister of health–Mr Coleman–promptly buggered off back to the private health sector, and the distorting effect of the dual system has gone largely unreported in relation to Covid.

      I see private facilities may soon be able to be sequestered, by proposed legislation if required in a wider outbreak. Excellent for this sector to be of wider public health use if it happens. There are too many specialists straddling the public/private sector, a few DHB consultations in the morning, then hop in the Porsche Cayenne and off to get a nice earner in the afternoon at their other office.

    • SPC 15.2
      22 June 2020 at 10:23 am

      National was in power in 2016 when the WHO made its Pandemic Alert.

      There was no move to prepare us for it. No increase in ICU capability, ventilator stock (and we were very low in these areas), no check of PPE in stock around the HB's. No improvement to the reporting system. No consulation with the East Asian nations to gain from their expertise.
      If Bloomfield's advice was heeded, rather than MBIE we would have managed isolation of returning Kiwis earlier and possibly not have had to go to a level 4 lockdown.

      We now have the chance to do what he wanted us to achieve then.

      Yet we still have the neo-MBIE's – Zombie economics of National asking us to accept higher risk as part of the global zombie herd.

      • Enough is Enough 15.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 12:11 pm

        This is why petty party politics annoys me. The two major parties have different branding but are both responsible for a generation of neglect. The continual blame game is frustrating.

        Labour was in power in 2017, one year after the WHO made its Pandemic Alert.

        There was no move to prepare us for it. No increase in ICU capability, ventilator stock (and we were very low in these areas), no check of PPE in stock around the HB's. No improvement to the reporting system. No consulation with the East Asian nations to gain from their expertise.
        If Bloomfield's advice was heeded, rather than MBIE we would have managed isolation of returning Kiwis earlier and possibly not have had to go to a level 4 lockdown.

  16. greywarshark 16
    22 June 2020 at 9:57 am

    edit
    I suggest that National Party and the business sector are going through withdrawal symptoms. They cannot proceed through their day in the usual straightforward way with the goal of making profit. They are being denied their fix, and people are moralising to them about thinking of others safety etc. It is insupportable, and a restraint to trade.

    It would be of assistance if large, soft but strong models of the coronavirus were set up in every town centre and people engulfed in rage and despair could go and kick it, and punch it, and have pictures of it that they could jump up and down on, and grind their boots into it, and rip the tentacles off it and…let those feelings of anger out. And then I won't feel sad at watching the vicious and self-centred trying to bring down our good government doing its best to navigate this unknown territory, and this means praise for Mr Bloomfield’s good work, which he needs to continue with at the same high level, (I hope he is receiving good pay and any help he and his family need, may his flowers blossom and his vegetables multiply).

    We don't want the economy to bottom out, but understand this you complainers, before Covid-19 you were on a hiding to nothing with your pushing to your own advantage and destroying the country's enterprise system, and asset stripping beyond business to everything we value. You have damaged our country, our society, our living conditions in the process and also our green and clean dairying business and tourism brand and product in the process.

    Climate change was approaching then and you were making hay while the sun shone, but that sun will kill your business in the future. Now after Covid-19 you are forced to think ahead, make changes yourselves just as you have forced on us, and that is so hard isn't it; shouldn't be allowed.

    Don't be like Trump and the Republicans et al and tell falsies all the time, particularly to yourself. We need to rebuild business in NZ in a new form, so get informed, think of the people here not just the scenery and new ways to drop people from a great height, or place people at supposedly manageable risk, so exciting. Think along the lines of the song, 'People who need people, are the luckiest people in the world'. Soppy isn't it, but in a world of machines, computers, people will crave meeting people who still have functioning brains, knowledgeable, interesting, amusing, charismatic. Think on that.

  17. Reality 17
    22 June 2020 at 10:06 am

    It’s all credit to Dr Bloomfield that he has never snapped back at the hysterical media/opposition. It’s fair enough to question him but the way they have behaved is disgraceful.

    Dr Bloomfield has been in his role for about two years. The previous DG, appointed under National, was a disaster who left behind a dysfunctional ministry, thanks to his incompetence. The coalition has not been in office for three years and it will take a long time to turn things around. Just look at Fonterra’s problems – still a work in progress after a year or more.

    Then out of the blue along comes Covid. What a massive undertaking to organise and implement testing, quarantine, and every aspect of our lives. Rational people will understand the difficulties and trust progress will be made in improving shortcomings.

    Thank you Dr Bloomfield. People responded to you so favourably because they rightly sensed he was the right man at the right time. He obviously has to have competent people at the coal face as well.

  18. Treetop 18
    22 June 2020 at 10:18 am

    Preventing community transmission is the goal. It is impossible to stop cases coming across the border.

    Everything has to be done during isolation and quarantine to avoid community transmission.

  19. Reality 19
    22 June 2020 at 10:18 am

    Woodhouse has been going on about incompetence. Anyone remember his level of competence in classifying worm farming as a dangerous occupation?

    Thank you Wayne Mapp for being quite fair and balanced!

  20. mary_a 20
    22 June 2020 at 11:19 am

    Job well done Dr Ashley Bloomfield.&nbsp

  21. Sacha 21
    22 June 2020 at 11:25 am

    Dealing with people who believe the rules are optional requires a firm hand (my bold). https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12341432

    Mother of boys who 'absconded' after Mongrel Mob tangi says they weren't given enough time

    …

    She said her 16-year-old was best friends with [dead man] Grant's son. They hadn't seen each other since leaving for Perth in March and he was anxious to get back to him.

    He decided to stay with his sister and his cousin in Hamilton. Her 8-year-old also stayed with whanau and was brought back to Auckland three days later.

    "Ok yes, I knew where the boys were the time they weren't with me. My 8-year-old was with his whanau he hadn't seen for 12 months or longer, and yes, he wanted to stay there."

  22. greywarshark 22
    22 June 2020 at 11:57 am

    Confused that Dr Bloomfield wasn't able to guarantee that we wouldn't get through the pandemic effects with no pain? He has been honest, which is better than the 'pretty honest' crowd, and even better than Roger Douglas and his crowd with their 'no pain, no gain'.

    But for those of us still confused by it all, I throw in Philomena Cunk who has also been wondering, to give us a definite explanation about vaccines, or not – it's your choice.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-y_SXHhf7Y

  23. RedBaronCV 23
    22 June 2020 at 12:50 pm

    Yep I too think Bloomfield did a wonderful job with what I suspect were stuff all resources. Barely enough to set the rules with.

    Also like to thank all those who returned pre the formal quarantine who very much must have gone home and stayed there otherwise there would have been a longer tail of community transfer.

    I'd feel more comfortable if

    -the 2400 or so who left quarantine without a test were now given one to just check none of them are asymtomatic carriers.

    – that there was some provision for publicly naming people that are contacts that they can't get hold of after a couple days so they know to turn up for a test. I'd like to think they are texting cell phone numbers as well as calling them. Because of the overseas scams and using like numbers a lot of people don't answer unknown callers to their cell phones.

    -as this is here for the long term we start to create a permanent quarantine force and permanent locations- defence or police auxillary? That way they can be properly resourced without the cost cutting of private sector contracts. Also a good job for older people and those who really want the rules followed? Just quietly supervising with the ability to call up the young and the fit if needed.

    – publishing the names of the quarantine locations. The public will help supervise these or give them a wide berth.

    – use the same catering contract that the hospitals use ( that should mean the moaning is focused one aspect only.) or the hospitals will get a new one.

    – an extra 14 days for any breaches

  24. RedBaronCV 24
    22 June 2020 at 1:05 pm

    And one last thing. Diplomatic staff are apparently exempted from quarantine – although obviously not exempt from getting covid. Before we accredit anyone they should be required to agree to quarantine or they don't get the accreditation.

  25. Poission 25
    22 June 2020 at 2:18 pm

    The public anger,following the exemptions from quarantine last week was large.That the subsequent granting of exemptions since the 9 June needs a very big explanation.

    Bloomfield also gave an update about compassionate leave exemptions. Since June 9, there have been 55 people who were granted leave from managed isolation on compassionate grounds.

    Of these, 54 have been followed up by the ministry and the last person was expected to be followed up with on Monday. Of those granted exemptions, 50 tested negative and the other four weren't tested because they were young children.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121904029/coronavirus-two-new-cases-of-covid19-ministry-of-health-confirms

    • Sacha 25.1
      22 June 2020 at 2:20 pm

      What date was the lawsuit that determined discretion for exemptions was actually compulsory under the relevant laws?

  26. Sacha 26
    22 June 2020 at 2:47 pm

    Nat MPs amplifying ignorant fear may cost hotel jobs. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12341855

    Auckland's Stamford Plaza was to have taken in isolating guests at the weekend but after residents in a tower at the top of the hotel objected, busloads were instead diverted at the last minute to hotels in Rotorua.

    …

    "One of the largest consequences of the hotel not being able to be appointed as an isolated managed facility would include it having no alternative but to retrench its staff. This is something that the hotel had been trying to avoid since the Covid-19 situation arose," said general manager Tarun Abraham.

    …

    Abraham said at the weekend that concerns about those in residential parts of the complex mixing with quarantiners were based on false information.

  27. Chris T 27
    22 June 2020 at 3:21 pm

    So when exactly, or what exactly has to happen before Bloomfield and Clark actually become accountable?

    Thanks

    • McFlock 27.1
      22 June 2020 at 3:24 pm

      They are accountable already.

      They become bad at their jobs when their screw-ups or oversights become more elementary, serious, and damaging than the pandemic they averted.

      • Chris T 27.1.1
        22 June 2020 at 3:28 pm

        "become more elementary, serious, and damaging than the pandemic they averted."

        What is more elementary than letting potentially infected people travel around the north island pre 14 days without being tested?

        And I think averted might be a bit premature, given the mess.

        • Sacha 27.1.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 3:34 pm

          The word 'letting' might be your clue. What is the scope of their power?

        • McFlock 27.1.1.2
          22 June 2020 at 3:35 pm

          "and damaging". No harm no foul.

          You hope premature. More dead NZers is the only way you'll be able to attack the competence of the PM or DG (and the DG is simply collateral damage of your campaign against the PM).

          • Chris T 27.1.1.2.1
            22 June 2020 at 3:40 pm

            ??

            You think I want more dead kiwis.

            That will be me not bothering with you, now.

            • McFlock 27.1.1.2.1.1
              22 June 2020 at 3:44 pm

              Well, try to suppress your glee if it happens, there's a chap.

              • Chris T …
                22 June 2020 at 3:47 pm

                No worries.

                It will be a very easy thing to do.

                And try to suppress your instant defense the 100 and 1st or so time Clark cocks up again.

                • McFlock …
                  22 June 2020 at 5:01 pm

                  I didn't defend him the first or second time he cocked up.

                  But nor will I demand his resignation for every slight error or tory beat-up.

    • observer 27.2
      22 June 2020 at 3:31 pm

      Clark and Bloomfield are obviously very different cases.

      The PM could sack Clark tomorrow, but if she tries to sack the DG of Health there would be a constitutional crisis.

      She might do the first, she will never do the second, and maybe we should just breathe in and breathe out and put the head back on the chook.

      • Chris T 27.2.1
        22 June 2020 at 3:42 pm

        Fair point re the DG, but Clark should have been gone burger a while ago.

        • Sacha 27.2.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 3:45 pm

          No argument on Clark.

          • McFlock 27.2.1.1.1
            22 June 2020 at 5:06 pm

            I'm moderately surprised that he's still in charge (although his scope seems to have been more limited e.g. Woods getting the covid border role).

            He might have some less obvious qualities that keep him in a big seat at the cabinet table, and his plate is only big enough to fit those.

            • In Vino 27.2.1.1.1.1
              22 June 2020 at 8:48 pm

              Chris T – could you please desist from using childish radio talk-back language, like 'gone burger'? It might make you feel confident, but it makes me suspect you are not a very careful thinker.

              And if you want to cling to that cacklemush, remember – burgers were out until we moved down to Level 3

              • solkta …
                22 June 2020 at 9:04 pm

                In Vino – could you please desist being such a dork and criticising others choice of words. "Goneburger" is well established New Zealand slang. Established enough for Oxford even:

                https://www.lexico.com/definition/goneburger

                Oh, and how about learning how to use the site and replying to the right person.

                • In Vino …
                  22 June 2020 at 9:36 pm

                  If you reply to the right person, your reply often comes in ten places further down. Haven't you noticed that? That is why I specified Chris T.

                  Slang is always open to criticism, whether you like it or not. Chris T's style does irk me, and that example was only the most glaring.

                  Sorry if you don't like what you so eloquently call 'dork'.

                  • solkta …
                    22 June 2020 at 9:47 pm

                    If you reply to the right person then they know from the sidebar that you have replied to them.

                    You just come across as up yourself. Why would you think people care what you think of their choice of words?

                    • In Vino …
                      22 June 2020 at 9:53 pm

                      If I say who I am replying to, the sidebar becomes irrelevant. Sorry, but I don't think many people consult the sidebar when your message comes in 15 spaces down, and doesn't obviously link to the 2 or 3 messages above it.

                      Maybe I am up myself. Or maybe you don't see how people use language styles to bluff and divert.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 June 2020 at 10:03 pm

                      In Vino:

                      I mean, I just hit "replies" in the sidebar and was wondering why you were replying to me when it was still a couple of comments away from the person you were apparently trying to address. It's not like you were anywhere the limit of nested comments (unlike this comment)/

                      Chris possibly hasn't even seen your comment yet, given that it's a reply to me and he's boycotting me because I said a mean thing about his constant invention of outrage at "cockups" in a highly successful disease control, elimination, and prevention program.

                    • In Vino …
                      22 June 2020 at 10:23 pm

                      McFlock: (just in case of confusion..) Fair enough.

                    • solkta …
                      22 June 2020 at 10:25 pm

                      @In Vino

                      Oh, so now it is because "bluff and divert" rather than "does irk me". Yeh, whatever.

                      And by the way, "cacklemush", it not even in Oxford.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      22 June 2020 at 11:00 pm

                      Why do some people come across as up themselves to some others?

                      And by the way, "cacklemush", it [sic] not even in Oxford.

                      A fun compound word, IMO: Cacklemush, CACKLEMUSH – give it time.

                      WHERE do new words come from? Few are purely invented, in the sense of being coined from a string of sounds chosen more or less at random. Most tend to be existing words given new meaning (“to tweet”). In other cases, a word changes its parts of speech (“to Photoshop”, “to Facebook”). And in some of the most creative instances, people chop words and recombine them to make new ones (as in “sexting”).

                      Science in 1 minute: How new words are created
                      (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioS1HUU5hB4

                    • In Vino …
                      22 June 2020 at 11:09 pm

                      Solkta – Both, actually.

                      I often come in late, and do not like my reply coming in 20 messages below the one I am replying to.

                      But now that I see I am annoying people, I shall desist.

                      It is true that the word 'cacklemush' has yet to be given the status I think it deserves.

                    • Incognito []
                      22 June 2020 at 11:20 pm

                      😀

                    • solkta …
                      22 June 2020 at 11:57 pm

                      @Drowsy

                      I'm all good with it. The point was that Vino was criticising the use of a well establish new word, and a real fun one at that, while using a much newer new word. Both are compound words. Did you read the full exchange? I'm not sure why you offered your link to me and not him?

                    • Sacha …
                      23 June 2020 at 8:19 am

                      My reply should always be first. Don't you know who I am!

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      23 June 2020 at 2:29 pm

                      To solkta @11:57 pm

                      My comment @11:00 pm was for you, In Vino, and anyone else who read(s) it. It was intended to express mild delight in a (new) word, and to inform, although (obviously) not everyone reading my comment will need or want the infomation. But it's out there now!

    • mac1 27.3
      22 June 2020 at 3:58 pm

      What does 'accountable' mean in the sense that you are using? Google says "1. required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible. "ministers are accountable to Parliament"".

      Why do we assume sackings are the only sanctions? Why do we use that very Elizabethan term 'heads will roll', said with vindictive and almost salivating, sanctimonious righteousness? (Not you, Chris T; but I heard that tone yesterday from an acquaintance.)

      To continue Observer’s analogy above at 27.2, once you’ve lopped of the chook’s head you get no more eggs.

      • Chris T 27.3.1
        22 June 2020 at 4:03 pm

        No idea. I never said heads should roll in a vindictive and almost salivating way.

        Was just saying Clark has proven to be shit at his job continuously during the biggest global pandemic in modern history and should be replaced by someone who knows what they are doing.

        Edit: Sorry. Missed the bit in brackets!

        • mac1 27.3.1.1
          22 June 2020 at 4:19 pm

          Sorry, Chris T, but I edited my statement to exclude you from that accusation probably as you were drafting your reply to the original.

          As for "shit at his job" I don't want to see the evidence of his shitty job, but some instances of regular underperformance rather than one instance would be preferable, or if one instance only that it be so serious it would warrant sacking.

          New Zealand is still in a situation of no remaining community transmission of Covid-19. If it reoccurs, we will track it down and extirpate it so long as public and officials do their job. If not, then more than the Minister are at risk.

          A different Minister and a Defence officer are now in charge of the isolation programme.

          I am also sure there will be an enquiry after the events have settled so that we can develop even stronger systems for handling pandemics 'cos this one ain't the last.

          Then we would need to ask who we would prefer to have in charge? A Minister like Clark whose department/underlings/contractors get it wrong in one or two instances; or, a man like Woodhouse who sits on information so that he can practise a vindictive and salivating 'gotcha' hit on the Minister, and here's the issue……… 'at the risk of people here contracting a possibly lethal virus'?

          • Stunned Mullet 27.3.1.1.1
            22 June 2020 at 5:45 pm

            The current Minister of Health has been a poor performer since well before COVID 19 came along.

            There have been two fair to middling Minister's of Health in the last couple of decades one from Labour one from National.

            I would prefer either of them to David Clark.

          • Sacha 27.3.1.1.2
            22 June 2020 at 6:15 pm

            that it be so serious it would warrant sacking

            The PM was clear about that. His goose is pre-cooked.

            • mac1 27.3.1.1.2.1
              22 June 2020 at 6:27 pm

              Against which, he has done this.

              Nurses in schools numbers increased, smoking in cars banned, greater responses to family and sexual violence, GP clinics having mental health services, suicide prevention services, free and cheaper doctor's services, funding for ambulances increased, free youth mental health services, funding for Pharmac, for cancer treatment, upping bowel cancer screening. more gender reassignment surgery, repairing and rebuilding services and buildings after the last government and after covid-19, more support for disability services.

              Lest we forget…. https://www.labour.org.nz/100reasons

    • Halfcrown 27.4
      22 June 2020 at 6:46 pm

      "So when exactly, or what exactly has to happen before Bloomfield and Clark actually become accountable?"

      Possibly soon after Woodward and the Tories are made accountable for endangering the lives of New Zealanders.

    • nzlemming 27.5
      22 June 2020 at 7:50 pm

      Being accountable is not the same as "being fired".

  28. observer 28
    22 June 2020 at 3:35 pm

    I know Stuff Comments is an easy target, but some of today's highlights really are beamed in from Planet Fruit Loop:

    Must be time for the nap, they're getting cranky

  29. georgecom 29
    22 June 2020 at 4:50 pm

    Todd McLay is looking a bit desperate isn't he. A bit of foaming at the mouth over arrivals being taken to Rotorua for quarantine because the Auckland Hotel was unavailable as residents raised some concerns. Aside from the over dramatics from McLay, the Auckland hotel stuff has the look of political stage management from National. Sure some of the residents might have had general concerns and fair enough actual risks would need to be managed or eliminated, I don't have an issue with that. Funny though how Nikki Kaye just happened to be there stirring the pot. Maybe no one told Todd that his leader had already decided the arrivals shouldn't be in her patch. They have to go somewhere Todd. Wonder what the nat party plan would have been had they been in power. Thankfully they are not in power but given their track record it would have been a shambles.

    • George 29.1
      22 June 2020 at 10:40 pm

      From gleaning the national radio interview….Kaye and some other nat met with the Stamford Plaza residents on the Friday BEFORE they decided to call foul over the quarantine load arriving on Saturday night. The health authorities subsequently then had them diverted to Rotorua as the folks at the Stamford were deemed to be too vulnerable by their own accounts and were not happy about the arrangements for isolation made. Todd mclay then complained about them going to Rotorua. Meanwhile in Auckland Stamford Plaza decided that due to the massive loss of revenue it's now incurred due to the residents complaints..it's going them for compensation..I estimate a few million. Niki Kaye isn't sure if they had an actual contract with health authorities..but a bunch of staff are probably going to be losing their jobs anyway. Awesome work on national part.. a good indicator of where priorities lay for them in terms of jobs, economic stability for businesses, and border control considering they were only a few weeks ago moaning about how NZ government was too rigid with it. Political point scoring with a serious public health threat is disgusting and dangerous. I hope someone does some good journalism around this and sort it.

      [Removed the last two characters from the user name, which caused your comment to be held up in Pre-Moderation]

  30. Unicus 30
    23 June 2020 at 3:07 pm

    It's business as usual really

    Bloomfield delivers quality information and calm

    While the National Party through its network of media puppets disseminates fear and panic throughout the land

    Todd seems convinced that since the strategy worked so well for Simon he should stick to a winning formula particularly since he has that rabid 26% of the electorate behind him

  31. marious 31
    24 June 2020 at 2:29 pm

    The policy for testing was in place but was not carried out by staff.

    This problem is being addressed hopefully without any out brake of the virus in the community.

    The most disappointing thing here is the the National party appears to want to make a political gain form this situation. The shadow minister of health Mr Woodhouse chose not to advise the health authorities. He instead contacted his colleges, Muller and his team didn't contact the health authorities either but decided to brake the issue in Parliament some 20 hours later.

    Mr Muller appears now to be playing a blame game instead of directing the supply of information requested from Mr Woodhouse about his alleged homeless fellow in the fight against the virus.

    Mr Woodhouse has made an error of judgement he had a duty to all New Zealanders to call the ministry of health and report the virus situation and make an attempt to stop any spread. Bringing up matters in parliament seems to be a secondary concern, saying any different just really isn't credible.

    The government moves to fix the situation as best it can, the ministry is learning to do better.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.