Is POTUS up to the job?

Written By: - Date published: 2:34 pm, July 8th, 2019 - 275 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, International, uk politics, us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

This rather chilling video featuring an appraisal of Donald Trump’s mental health by Dr Bandy Lee is doing the rounds.

Lee in 2017 wrote the book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump.  She and others have now assessed the information in the Muller report and provided an appraisal of Trump’s current mental condition.  And it is not good.

This is not the only news involving Trump this week.  There was also news of a humiliating leak of the views of UK’s ambassador to the United States Kim Darroch.  Basically it has become public that Darroch thinks that Trump is a chump.  And Trump’s response is typical and provides further evidence that Dr Lee may wish to consider.

From the Guardian:

Donald Trump has said Britain’s ambassador to the US has “not served the UK well” as he hit back following the leak of confidential internal memos that presented an unflattering portrait of the president and his administration.

Earlier, the Foreign Office ordered an inquiry into the leaking of the cables, written by the ambassador, Kim Darroch, in which Trump’s White House is described as “uniquely dysfunctional” and “inept”.

Darroch said in the memos that media reports about vicious administration rows (“knife fights”, as he put it) were mostly true. He cast doubt on whether the Trump regime would ever become more stable, described the president as insecure, and suggested Trump’s career might end in disgrace.

I wonder how long Darroch will last?

And there was this rather overblown publicly funded re-election campaign stunt.  Talk about Make America Great Again.

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1147183957571702785

I get the feeling this may not end well …

275 comments on “Is POTUS up to the job? ”

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  1. Sam 1
    8 July 2019 at 2:42 pm

    Complete rubbish. The U.S. Constitution was made so any poor farmer could come off the land, be president, not screw up too much and go back to the farm. The DNC and the left lost, badly. Handle it.

    • Peter 1.1
      8 July 2019 at 2:55 pm

      And UK ambassador to the United States Kim Darroch should handle it too. Being peed off 245 years after the airports were taken off them is a bit much.

      When the U.S. Constitution was drawn up so that any poor farmer could come off the land, be president and not screw up too much there was probably some notions about the sanctity of the systems they were setting up and propriety and righteousness. They probably didn't think that the population growing a hundredfold would see any chance of there being a real knob in charge.

      • Sam 1.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 3:07 pm

        Look at the people calling for Trump to be impeached. There choices for president are worse than Trump. Y'know you need better excuses than the rulz are unfair.

        • Gabby 1.1.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 5:47 pm

          Worse than trumpy sambam? I don't think so.

          • Sam 1.1.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 5:58 pm

            I actually believed that Hillary Clinton was worse than Trump. In fact I said those things which coped me a 1 year ban from this place, could have even been a permanent ban. That's why I have no respect for the woke.

            • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 6:14 pm

              I actually believed that Hillary Clinton was worse than Trump. In fact I said those things which coped me a 1 year ban from this place, could have even been a permanent ban.

              Only reference I can see to a permanet samban suggests your recollection might be off.

            • Bewildered 1.1.1.1.1.2
              8 July 2019 at 8:06 pm

              Nothing is forever Sam, ask Ed and Paul

              • Sam …
                8 July 2019 at 8:13 pm

                Then I would remind you that we are discussing the security and sanctity of the U.S constitution. Disregard that and you are no better than a monkey.

                • WILD KATIPO …
                  10 July 2019 at 3:25 am

                  Right in there with you, Sam. All these doomsayers and naysayers are doing is coming round for a second serving. To date they have all failed miserably. Obviously a long and concerted stitch up of Trump. And it hasn't worked yet. And never will.

                  As to your '' The U.S. Constitution was made so any poor farmer could come off the land, be president, not screw up too much and go back to the farm''… I like it.

                  Many former Presidents would too.

                  Levon Helm "Poor Old Dirt Farmer" Official Music Video – YouTube

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBuJB218UvU

                  And that's one thing the urbane Dems didn't count on… the workers and the 'rust belt',- why?… because they were too caught up in their neo liberal identity politics that economically sacked the poor and having 'Killary ' as the first female USA pres. And they've been 'spewing their rings' over it ever since.

                  Stuff em.

                  They got what was coming to them.

                  • Sam …
                    10 July 2019 at 12:38 pm

                    I know I know. Fundamentally I think the democrats lack energy. No offence but Sanders, Pelosi and Biden are all over 70 and they're all saying the same stuff as Sanders now trying to sound hip.

                    After 2020 there has to be a big clean out and new left narrative created. One that is inclusive, progressive and sane. That and I think that any real left wing candidate would have to run as an independent. The DNC on the other hand is just a reptilian body snatcher. We are always going to be disappointed in the DNC.

        • Peter 1.1.1.2
          8 July 2019 at 6:36 pm

          Maybe therein lies the problem. In a population of 325 million is trump the best person to be leader? If there are no choices better than him the world is well and truly stuffed.

          • Sam 1.1.1.2.1
            8 July 2019 at 7:11 pm

            I believe that if it is true that the House and Senate is full of stupid then responsibility falls on The Pentagon to care for democracy.

            • Dukeofurl 1.1.1.2.1.1
              9 July 2019 at 11:31 am

              The Constitution gives the sucession path for a 'impaired ' President as the Vice President ( Pence) and then the Speaker of the House ( Pelosi), President pro tempore of the Senate ( Grassley), I think it goes to the Secretary of State after that.

              No mention of the Pentagon, as Secretary of Defense ( not officially yet) is 6th.

              • Sam …
                9 July 2019 at 4:28 pm

                No I'm not talking about some bullshit calculus equation where Trunp is removed from the Whiet house before his allotted time. I'm talking about a fundamental loss of trust in the system.

                Y'know if you understand the maths and indicators behind the system then you can bypass Trump and the establishment. What we really want is to circumnavigate the banks and the military industrial complex to funnel money directly to the people, it's not going to happen now but it will with the next recession and the next recession is coming.

                The system is more than Trump, fundamental losses of trust in the system is far more damaging than trade wars or financial wars because the U.S dollar is world reserve Currency so removing Trump could trigger a bond market crash which maybe unrecoverable which is far worse than removing Trump. Y'know you lot screaming impeach Trump give no confidence that you even understand a little bit of the consequences. The small idea is that the left grabs hold of all the stability and leaves instability on the right. Not wreck the joint while holding on furiously to the smoking gun.

    • McFlock 1.2
      8 July 2019 at 4:43 pm

      You're arguing that the US Constitution protects the people from incompetent presidents, rather than trying to claim that the current oaf is competent.

      Here enters the 25th Amendment.

      • Sam 1.2.1
        8 July 2019 at 5:00 pm

        Who would you install as interim president?

        Edit: Y’know it’s the same problem as replacing Assade. Regime change is not the tahi.

        • McFlock 1.2.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 5:03 pm

          Again, arguing that there is no suitable replacement for an incompetent president is not the same as saying the president is competent.

          • Sam 1.2.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 5:10 pm

            Trump is literally the most popular Repubican President ever. If you seriously think that taking there (they are fucking armed to the teeth) presidents away in anything else than a straight up and down electoral victory is in any way a winning strategy then you really require a lay down and a cupa, sport, champ, son. Y'know? Get yourself some smarter friends.

            • McFlock 1.2.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 5:21 pm

              Trump is literally the most popular Repubican President ever

              That's not even close to being true. His highest approval rating is literally the worst-highest rating of any president since 1937.

              • Sam …
                8 July 2019 at 5:35 pm

                I don't know what bullshit you're trying to imply that I said.

                Among Republican presidents his polling is the highest.

                • McFlock …
                  8 July 2019 at 5:43 pm

                  Nope. That link also has graphs, picture form especially for you.

                  Or we could go straight to Gallup.

                  • Sam …
                    8 July 2019 at 5:54 pm

                    No, no, no, fuck off with your wiki bullshit. I'm talking about the chances of republican voters who are armed to the teeth pulling plug and revolutioning if you take the presidency away from them.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 6:00 pm

                      Oh, so by "his polling is the highest" you actually meant "his pathetically-small number of supporters are the most likely to commit terrorist acts". I suspect that this might actually be the case, yes.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 6:06 pm

                      Only a delusional freak could in anyway describe 50 million Repubicans as pathetically small. You have no right to be saying such bullshit. You just have no idea do you.

                      [Chill it Sam. TOne it back a bit. Try arguing with facts and figures like McFlock – MS]

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 6:19 pm

                      Now I don't have a right to say something? MAGA snowflakes gonna melt, I guess.

                      BTW, 50mil is less than one sixth of the US population, so yeah, as support for an elected leader it is pretty pathetic.

                      edit: It’s interesting the things you choose to defend (US constitution provides protection from incompetent presidents, the size of his support base is not pathetically small) versus the claims you choose to ignore (the president is incompetent and his supporters are the most likely to commit terrorist acts). Pretty bleak outlook you have, there.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 6:30 pm

                      Y'know what I like about Sue Bradford. At least Sue would lead from the front instead of from The Stamdard. You talk a big game Mc Trash but when it comes time to fight for real, Y'know your magical hoards of online virtuosos are no where to be seen.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 6:43 pm

                      ^hordes

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 8:57 pm

                      So I checked again and even McFlocks gallop poll link says Trumps support among republicans is over 90% (honestly I just saw the 9 and got hoha) this is his own link confirming my argument that among republican presidents, Trump is most popular. Y'know facts am I correct. I could not imagine a more amateurish impeachment campaign.

                      Edit:@MS

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 9:38 pm

                      Gallup says dolt45 is currently on 89%, topped out at 91% approval of republican voters.

                      GWB topped out at 99% approval from Republican voters, according to Gallup. On day 890 in office GWB was on 94% Republican voter approval, as opposed to dolt45 on 89%.

                      GHWB was on 90% on day 891, peaking at 97%.

                      Reagan topped out at 94%, but was on only 82% on day 888. Note that Reagan is the first republican president who had lower approval than the orange oaf at a comparable stage in his presidency.

                      Even if "Trumps support among republicans" meant the same thing as "among republican presidents, Trump is most popular", math says you're wrong.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 10:54 pm

                      No. I'm not talking about swing voters, Hispanics or the popular vote. I'm talking about the 40 odd million Republicans who no matter what will tick red. Y'know and they're all pretty much those evangelical worshippers you can see on television who are armed to the teeth.

                      Yknow there is no combination of wokeness that can defeat Trump. As I mentioned earlier. The DNC won't allow. Populace to be there candidate. And you just can't accept the truth.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 11:01 pm

                      1: your latest classification of voter isn't in the gallup poll you said supported your position.

                      2: Your latest definition actually means that every republican president should receive 100% support from that group because that group is republican no matter what.

                      3: armed insurrection is not an indication of popular support in a nominal democracy. Quite the reverse.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 11:10 pm

                      What ever. Rationalize it how ever you like. You and MS idea of impeaching Trump is dangerous, half arsed and you deserve zero respect from anyone that would actually win an impeachment. You'd need a super majority of at last 75% and you and MS have not displayed the necessary talents to do that. Y'know you'd need about 20 million republican voters and well, you're no where near that, in fact you're tracking in the total opposite direction where Trump wins a secound term.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 11:57 pm

                      Trump is literally the most popular Repubican President ever

                      now simply means that the democrats will probably fall short of the required number of senators to find him guilty in any impeachment proceedings that get handed up from congress.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:01 am

                      No [McFlock] you just don't have a viable candidate to replace trump except for some far greater chaos. I don't even think you're rational enough to even comprehend how stupid you are.

                      [Final warning. Argue your point without flaming others or you will have a holiday – MS]

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:07 am

                      Says the chap who thinks 89 is bigger than 90, and that 91 is bigger than 99.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:14 am

                      That's just what's in your mind.

                      i asked who you would install as interim president. You couldn't answer then imagined some head canon in where you and MS think you are winners.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:25 am

                      Presidents aren't installed by NZers. Read the US constitution.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:43 am

                      Well Mike Pense would have been a good bloody guess. But you had to waffle on about stupid shit. And you're still waffling on about stupid shit.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:49 am

                      I didn't make a bullshit claim about the orange oaf's popularity.
                      You brought that up, and basic math bit you in the arse.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 1:00 am

                      All that stuff you wrote after you failed to come up with a viable alternative to Trump is thoughts that are just in your head. I don't want anything to do with your half pie concoctions. Y'know I tried to make you comfortable but you are just way to ideological just like your enablers.

                    • Dukeofurl …
                      9 July 2019 at 11:37 am

                      Currently 32 mill registered Republicans and 44 mill registered Democrats.

                      Independents ? Almost as many Republicans at 31 mill.

                      Not all states have party registration

                      http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/registering-by-party-where-the-democrats-and-republicans-are-ahead/

            • Gabby 1.2.1.1.1.2
              8 July 2019 at 5:48 pm

              No he isn't sambam. You're just making up more shit.

        • Phil 1.2.1.2
          8 July 2019 at 5:06 pm

          Who would you install as interim president?

          Huh. Maybe there is such a thing as a stupid question, after all.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Constitutional_provisions

          • Sam 1.2.1.2.1
            8 July 2019 at 5:13 pm

            Then I'd like to know if you agree with the current U.S foreign policy of regime change war?

            • Phil 1.2.1.2.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 5:27 pm

              Wow. You're two-for-two on that stupid question thing. Nice work. Can't wait to see what you're going to try for the hat trick.

              US foreign policy (as incoherent as it is) has literally nothing to do with the constitutionally defined line of presidential succession.

              • Sam …
                8 July 2019 at 5:39 pm

                Just to clarify are you tryin to say that U.S foreign policy has nothing to do with the President of the United States?

                • Phil …
                  8 July 2019 at 6:15 pm

                  I literally don't know how I can say it any simpler.

                  The line of presidential succession is clear. It's written down in the constitution and amendments. It has been successfully tested & implemented multiple times.

                  If you cannot see the gaping chasm of difference between that and a military adventure to remove a foreign leader… then I cannot help you any more.

                  • Sam …
                    8 July 2019 at 6:37 pm

                    Then could you do a quick cognitive assessment for me. Y'know are you able to have a basic conversation or nah?

                    so what time is it?

                    What day is it? Mon or fri

                    do you know who the prime minister is?

                    [Sam chill out – MS]

                    how many fingers am I holding up?

                    • Phil …
                      9 July 2019 at 10:00 am

                      how many fingers am I holding up?

                      I'm holding up just one. In your direction.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:22 pm

                      Yknow that I believe Trump won fair and square. Then I come across a bunch of nobody's claiming oh they're all mentally damaged so now Trump can not be President. And when I inquire what the plan is for after Trump it's the same ideological bullshit.

                    • Phil …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:36 pm

                      Yknow that I believe Trump won fair and square.

                      Trump won the Electoral College, yes. That does not, in any way whatsoever, put him above the law or the consequences of breaking the law.

                      when I inquire what the plan is for after Trump it's the same ideological bullshit.

                      It speaks volumes to your character that you consider calls to uphold the US Constitution to be "partisan". Shame, Sam. Shame.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:42 pm

                      What constitutional crises? There's a president, Vice President, speaker, ect. Congress keeps the senate in check. US dollar is still world reserve currency. What do I have to do with any of that.

    • Ken 1.3
      9 July 2019 at 5:47 pm

      What if the poor farmer was born in another country and moved to USA as a child?

      • Sam 1.3.1
        9 July 2019 at 6:02 pm

        I guess country boys gotta make do.

        Seriously though democrat nominees are self selected at Bilderburg while Repiblican nominees self select at Davos, so, meh.

  2. Clive Macann 2
    8 July 2019 at 2:50 pm

    A load of bull by a sour Democrat.

    I'm a fan of what Trump does and the fight he has against the sour grapes bunch is just making him stronger.

    • woodart 2.1
      8 July 2019 at 3:03 pm

      get over the whole democrat nonsense.. plenty of people that dont identify as democrats are disgusted and embarrassed by this buffoon…grow up!

    • Phil 2.2
      8 July 2019 at 5:10 pm

      A load of bull by a sour Democrat.

      Kim Darroch is British.

      • Anne 2.2.1
        8 July 2019 at 5:37 pm

        Trumpites don't worry about such 'subtle' distinctions. 🙂

      • mickysavage 2.2.2
        8 July 2019 at 8:43 pm

        Heh.

      • Macro 2.2.3
        8 July 2019 at 9:04 pm

        Darroch is a Scottish clan, associated with the MacDonald's. Their motto is "Be Watchful", and the name comes from the Gaelic, meaning "son of Oak". Many of the Darroch clan lived on Islay, Jura, and Kintyre.

        Some of the clan arrived in NZ on the "Jane Gifford" in 1842 following the clearances and became ship builders, building some of the many scows that worked around the Hauraki Gulf and beyond. The current restored scow named after the ship they arrived in NZ on, the scow "Jane Gifford" is moored in Warkworth.

    • Ken 2.3
      9 July 2019 at 5:54 pm

      You wouldn't be a sour grapes Nat by any chance?

    • McFlock 2.4
      9 July 2019 at 6:01 pm

      You're a fan of concentration camps.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    8 July 2019 at 3:00 pm

    SCROTUS–“so called ruler of the US”–more like

    Many flawed public figures are surrounded by various enablers whose jobs depend upon it, plus Mr Trump has millions egging him on because he enables them!

    Fundamentalist Christians, Republican Party members, officials, Senators and Congress people, State Governors, NRA and countless other lobbyists have left their ethics, as possessed, and sanity almost, at the door in their opportunism. Despite his loathsome personage, despite America’s name being trashed globally, they see Trump delivering for them and that is all that matters.

  4. woodart 4
    8 July 2019 at 3:01 pm

    when does being an arsehole cross over into mental health problems. trump has been an arsehole his whole life(plenty of proof). passing his unfitness for office as mental incompetency is a copout…. for his fans, a question.. would you want him to be your leader.?.remember, respect is earned……….

    • Gabby 4.1
      8 July 2019 at 5:50 pm

      Maybe he's been batshit his whole life too woodars, no crossover required.

    • Sam 4.2
      8 July 2019 at 7:52 pm

      Thats irrelevant because Trump is President. Like it or not Trump is the leader of the free world. My issue isn't with Trump it is with the woke rehearsing there failed ideological gender patriarchy rapey bullshit strategy and saying it failed because Trunps a fascist or homophobia or some bullshit argument seen mostly on Twitter. No bitches, those woke strategies failed because they're losers. Like just look at Jacinda, she appeased the woke by claiming to cure homelessness and the housing crises with out care or attention to the necessary skills an talent to pull of something like that. Yeah I think she could do it in 4 elections but a talented leader could do it in one.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    8 July 2019 at 3:03 pm

    I wonder how long Darroch will last?

    I'm wondering how long Trump will last, but will answer your question. Not long. The reason? His position is untenable. He did no wrong, true, but you can't have a diplomat on record as telling an unpalatable truth.

    He will probably be kept on until the tories elect a new leader. Then he will get shuffled to a job of equivalent or greater prestige, to send the signal that he was doing his job properly.

    As regards the first two comments, nothing there to disagree with, so I'll just add the bit that they don't want to acknowledge. Inventing fake history is not appropriate behaviour for someone in his position. If the establishment want to send the signal that history is irrelevant to politics, they will retain him as show pony.

    • Anne 5.1
      8 July 2019 at 5:00 pm

      He did no wrong, true, but you can't have a diplomat on record as telling an unpalatable truth.

      But that is what diplomats are supposed to do. Tell their respective country's political leaders exactly what is going on – no holds barred. Somebody leaked the report to a British newspaper.

      But you are right DF. He will be transferred to another position of equal value which, in the circumstances, he will probably be only too happy to accept.

      What I find disagreeable is the way the Tory government is trying to distance itself from 'the truth' by emphasizing the fact it is… an opinion expressed by a diplomat and does not represent the views of the government.

      With cowards like that at the helm of British politics, there's not much chance of getting the nut-ball removed from office any time soon.

      • Dennis Frank 5.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 5:23 pm

        Yes Anne, I ought to have specified `public record'. Re UK govt having to distance itself, that's realpolitik. May's holding the pattern for her successor. Wouldn't do for her to establish a handicap at the start! It may seem cowardly, but her higher priority is to keep the relationship with the loose cannon as functional as possible.

    • Gabby 5.2
      8 July 2019 at 5:51 pm

      I reckon one of nigel garage's fans did the dirty franko.

      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1
        8 July 2019 at 7:17 pm

        Feasible. Someone in the Foreign Service hostile to the tories, anyway, so could be a Labour voter. A witch-hunt is likely to have gotten under way immediately, so it's which witch sent the email.

        Cyber-hunting hounds will be sniffing the scent. On the downside: "Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service (HMDS) is the diplomatic service of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, dealing with foreign affairs… It employs around 14,000 people, roughly one-third of whom are crown servants working directly for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, either in London or abroad. The remaining two thirds of staff are employed locally by one of nearly 270 British diplomatic missions abroad".

        On the upside will be the relatively small number who saw or handled the email from the ambassador. Her Majesty will be standing by with a ruler, eager to deliver the swift rap over the knuckles to the culprit.

  6. Siobhan 6
    8 July 2019 at 3:14 pm

    Lee is quoted as saying, “We feel that the rush of tweeting is an indication of his falling apart under stress. Trump is going to get worse and will become uncontainable with the pressures of the presidency.” In her partisan professional opinion, “We have an obligation to speak about Donald Trump’s mental health issues because many lives and our survival as a species may be at stake.”

    OUR VERY SURVIVAL AS A SPECIES!!

    Given that we are being continually given this startling narrative..that Trump is the worst thing ever, the source and the enabler of ALL that is wrong in America, who makes Bush et al look like they should be the retrospective recipient's of the Nobel Peace Prize…I'm slightly taken back by the lack of introspection as to what the Centrists are doing so wrong that Beelzibub has in fact managed to become President…and while we're at it..why 85% of GOP voters intend to vote him in again.

    Meantime, I'm not sure very many people would pass any sort of sanity test if evaluated by their social media presence.

    An interesting perspective on the ethics and validity of a psychiatrist making such public statements about one individuals threat status to the human species..

    https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2017.11b13

  7. One Two 7
    8 July 2019 at 3:14 pm

    There is not a single human being past or present who is up to the job

    That aside, if being up to the job were somehow a measurable or meaningful indicator as opposed to an opinion, there would not be many politicians roaming around planet earth seeking to pass themselves off as… up to the job.

  8. Jess NZ 8
    8 July 2019 at 3:29 pm

    He was never up to the job. He is there only because his gang (Republicans, Russians) helped him cheat into it (gerrymandering, voter suppression, bot political advertising, etc.) Anyone who understands evidence understands this, anywhere on the political spectrum. Those who don't object are OK with winning at any price – some feel being honest is stupid if you can win by cheating.

    I can only hope they don't manage to keep him there much longer.

    • Jess NZ 8.1
      8 July 2019 at 3:49 pm

      Obama knew. He spent 90 minutes with Trump in an attempt to bring up some realities. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/10/barack-obama-donald-trump-white-house-meeting-transition

    • mauī 8.2
      8 July 2019 at 7:10 pm

      Clinton had hundreds of million more dollars to campaign with in the last election, and had the MSM right behind her.

      Trump had Fox News and 13 Russians in a troll factory supposedly dividing the entire country using sophisticated tools like a "Pokemon Go ecosystem".



      • Phil 8.2.1
        9 July 2019 at 9:58 am

        Clinton had hundreds of million more dollars to campaign with in the last election, and had the MSM right behind her.

        Trump had Fox News and 13 Russians in a troll factory

        That sure is one big load of *absolutely wild* revisionism you're hauling there, Maui.

        There's a reason "but her emails" is such a meme now – the media (left, right, and centre) harangued Clinton endlessly over this.

        Meanwhile, even Trump's wildest lies and distortions were passed over uncritically in a breathless attempt to keep up with uncritically reporting the next lie.

        • mauī 8.2.1.1
          9 July 2019 at 12:10 pm

          "There's a reason "but her emails" is such a meme now – the media (left, right, and centre) harangued Clinton endlessly over this."

          Mate the major networks are Dem friendly, it was physically impossible for them to harangue her, they would be out of a job if they did. I don't think you saw much coverage if you think Trump's statements were passed over lightly…

          • joe90 8.2.1.1.1
            9 July 2019 at 12:31 pm

            I don't think you saw much coverage if you think Trump's statements were passed over lightly…

            lol

            /

            Despite the dispersion of attention and the large number of media and channels available to them, as Americans were beginning to tune in to election coverage over the summer and early fall of 2016, one word was repeatedly on their minds when they thought of Hillary Clinton: email. Over the 10 weeks from July 11 to September 18, 2016, Gallup included in their U.S. Daily Tracking poll the question “What have you read, seen, or heard about Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump in the past several days?” In eight of those 10 weeks, (p.190) the top word in response was “email” (Figure 6.1), and even during the convention week, it was the second word after “convention.” Comparing the word clouds that Gallup produced from this survey data is one of the most vivid illustrations of how candidates can be framed in entirely different ways.1 “Lie,” “scandal,” and “foundation” were not far behind “emails” in framing Clinton’s candidacy in the minds of American voters.

            https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780190923624.001.0001/oso-9780190923624-chapter-6

            • mauī 8.2.1.1.1.1
              9 July 2019 at 7:21 pm

              Not sure what that proves Joe… Everyone in the US watches Fox?

              • joe90 …
                9 July 2019 at 7:40 pm

                That Phil's right and your assertions that – it was physically impossible for them to harangue her, they would be out of a job if they did and I don't think you saw much coverage if you think Trump's statements were passed over lightly – are absurd.

                In December 2017, a team of researchers found a troubling pattern not only at the New York Times but across multiple mainstream outlets:

                "The research team investigated this question [of election coverage], counting sentences that appeared in mainstream media sources and classifying each as detailing one of several Clinton- or Trump-related issues. In particular, they classified each sentence as describing either a scandal (e.g., Clinton's emails, Trump's taxes) or a policy issue (Clinton and jobs, Trump and immigration).

                "They found roughly four times as many Clinton-related sentences that described scandals as opposed to policies, whereas Trump-related sentences were one-and-a-half times as likely to be about policy as scandal. Given the sheer number of scandals in which Trump was implicated-sexual assault; the Trump Foundation; Trump University; redlining in his real-estate developments; insulting a Gold Star family; numerous instances of racist, misogynist, and otherwise offensive speech-it is striking that the media devoted more attention to his policies than to his personal failings.

                "Even more striking, the various Clinton-related email scandals-her use of a private email server while secretary of state, as well as the DNC and John Podesta hacks-accounted for more sentences than all of Trump's scandals combined (65,000 vs. 40,000) and more than twice as many as were devoted to all of her policy positions."

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12244290

  9. H J Robertson 9
    8 July 2019 at 3:43 pm

    those Russians sure get around – Trump is an INTERNATIONAL disgrace who has undermined and weakened democratic processes throughout the planet. The idiot doesn't even accept proven science. That should tell you everything.

  10. Andre 10
    8 July 2019 at 4:10 pm

    It really isn't a question of "is he up to the job?".

    The sad fact is he has the job for the next 18months (if we're lucky) or 66months (holy fuck….). There is simply no plausible route to removing him against his will from that office before the next election, short of a medical event that kills him or leaves him a vegetable.

    So the more relevant question is how to avoid the spatter from the turd tornado, and how to manage the flying feces that do hit us.

    • Sam 10.1
      8 July 2019 at 4:13 pm

      You're asking the impossible. All those woke de woke Dee's that cried Willie Jackson should get the arse are still trying to bring there bullshit loser propsals out as winning strategy.

      • In Vino 10.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 4:24 pm

        And you are still having problems trying to express yourself rationally.

        • Sam 10.1.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 4:38 pm

          Why should I respect the woke? They've been the worse, they're exclusionary, vile, they get real tough and staunch when they know no one can reply to them. They're pseudo lawyers. What exactly is endearing about some one claiming all males are rapey patriarchy?

          Is tthere something more to you than ideological garbage?

          • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 4:48 pm

            Yes. The additional factor is the ability to write a coherent sentence.

            • Sam 10.1.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 5:04 pm

              Your infatuation with your own IQ and ability to write completely fails when it comes to constructing winning electoral combinations.

      • Gabby 10.1.2
        8 July 2019 at 5:53 pm

        Wokey dokey sambam.

        [I am the TS author who has banned fewer people than anyone else. But Sam is pushing it …]

        • Sam 10.1.2.1
          8 July 2019 at 6:10 pm

          You must love the tast of humble pie. Y'know you make these great big proclamations gobby. And look. Homelessness is still a thing, precinct developments are still underfunded. The rich are getting richer.

          • Gabby 10.1.2.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 6:28 pm

            The tast has gone to wast sambywamby. Judge the trumpy by the shitferbrains lies of his vicious conniving trumpette enablers and emulators.

            • Sam 10.1.2.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 6:41 pm

              You're a real delusional twat if you think that I'm right wing yknow?

  11. Andre 11
    8 July 2019 at 4:38 pm

    Oh dear. It seems Hair Farce One hasn't got the feels for Fox anymore…

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-fox-news-worse-than-cnn_n_5d229d58e4b0f31256861e61

    • Dennis Frank 11.1
      8 July 2019 at 4:45 pm

      Could mean the invitation to Rupert's birthday party inexplicably failed to arrive in March as usual, and he's been stewing about it since…

  12. Gosman 12
    8 July 2019 at 4:49 pm

    What exactly is Trump doing that is so incompetent?

    • McFlock 12.1
      8 July 2019 at 5:01 pm

      Indecisiveness regarding airstrikes.

      Being surprised lawyers might take notes.

      The "airports" bullshit.

      The inability to find a suit that fits.

      Turnover of staff in the white house.

      Just to start with.

      Regardless of whether these are signs of a crippled mind or just plain not being up to the job in the first place, he doesn't have an adequate skillset to run a country. He doesn't have the appropriate knowledge or people management skills. One skill deficit might be compensated by a strength in the other, but he has neither.

      • Macro 12.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 5:52 pm

        Not forgetting his complete and utter ignorance.,

        and his preoccupation with self over and above the call to serve the people – the duty of the office for which he campaigned.

      • Gosman 12.1.2
        9 July 2019 at 8:04 am

        Many politicians have misspoken and dress badly. Many politicians go through staff very quickly.

        The fact remains Trump is largely putting in place the agenda he was elected on. I don't see how that makes him incompetent.

        • mickysavage 12.1.2.1
          9 July 2019 at 8:12 am

          Incompetent maybe not but his complete lack of humanity, the brutal way he is treating non American citizens on American soil, his total lack of understanding of reality and his destruction of the environment are causes for concern arn’t they?

          • Gosman 12.1.2.1.1
            9 July 2019 at 8:48 am

            Yeah, I get that he is unpleasant and divisive. However being deeply unlikable and unpopular with a significant section of the US electorate is not a situation where the Constitution should be used to remove him before his term finishes.

            • Andre 12.1.2.1.1.1
              9 July 2019 at 9:16 am

              Being unpleasant, divisive, deeply unlikeable and unpopular are indeed not reasons to remove him from office.

              However, his repeated violations of his oath of office, ongoing violations of his constitutional obligations starting with his continuously violating Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 from day 1, his very probable criminal obstruction of justice and numerous other high crimes and misdemeanours are just a few of the very good reasons he should have been removed from office long ago.

              • Morrissey …
                9 July 2019 at 9:34 am

                And don't forget: he's a marionette controlled by those evil, all-powerful Russian masterminds. And the fiendishly cunning North Koreans. And the Illuminati, and KAOS, and… and those RUSSIANS. Those dastardly Russians. Those Russian SCUM!

                https://twitter.com/maxblumenthal/status/808549071589871616?lang=en

              • Gosman …
                9 July 2019 at 10:46 am

                Why haven't the Democrats set up impeachment proceedings then? They have the ability and YOU think it is so very obvious he is a candidate for impeachment.

                • Andre …
                  9 July 2019 at 11:10 am

                  Me and a whole bunch of others in a better position than me to know. Including a bunch of prominent Republicans such as Justin Amash and George Conway (yes, Kellyalien's hubby).

                  Dems are probably hesitant because removing him from office via impeachment requires 67 senators to vote for conviction. That means a minimum of 20 Repug senators would have to put aside their current blind hyper-partisanship, and risk getting primaried by vengeful Drumpfkins at their next election. Ain't gonna happen.

                  Hell, it's not even clear the Senate is required to hold a trial. Yertle McTurtle might be able to just completely ignore an impeachment in the House, to spare his Repug senators having to make a potentially embarrassing vote.

                  So the question facing House Democrats is whether impeachment investigations will shine daylight on enough misconduct to overcome a perception among some that the impeachment proceedings are just another partisan political circus like Clinton's was. Making that call requires someone a bit bolder than the current bunch of senior Dems.

          • Adrian Thornton 12.1.2.1.2
            9 July 2019 at 9:17 am

            This constant and frenetic focus on Trump is IMO large part smoke and mirrors deployed by the establishment DNC and defenders of the liberal status quo in MSM to scare voters into voting for whom ever they (the DNC and MSM) eventually ordain to run against Bernie as their chosen candidate and keep that status quo, probably Harris, maybe Warren if the get really really desperate.

            It is pretty obvious that those mentioned above would rather lose to Trump than have Bernie win, same goes for Corbyn in the UK, just look at the constant undermining, attacks and skewing of facts on Corbyn from the so called liberal media in the UK, as with Bernie in the US.

            Progressives have to keep their eyes on the prize…fuck trump, but fuck the Neo Liberal 'centre left' just as much, they are both poison to human well being as well as the Planets.

        • McFlock 12.1.2.2
          9 July 2019 at 1:33 pm

          Many politicians fail in one or two respects.

          Very few come to mind has having failed so comprehensively across the full spectrum of governance, though.

    • Phil 12.2
      8 July 2019 at 5:16 pm

      What exactly is Trump doing that is so incompetent?

      I mean, if we went to be glib, Trump has incompetently failed to hide the fact he's been in breach of the Emoluments clause ever since Day 1 of his presidency.

      That, in and of itself, is legitimate grounds for impeachment.

      • Ad 12.2.1
        8 July 2019 at 8:31 pm

        Trump will never be disciplined by the Senate unless there's a fulsome majority of Democrats after the 2020 election.

        Trump's only discipline as far as the eye can see is losing the next Presidential election, after which the IRD can go and have a chat.

        • McFlock 12.2.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 8:39 pm

          I'm not even sure the impeachable stuff is off the table after jan2021 if the oaf loses. It just goes from the legislature to federal prosecutors.

          Ford pardoned Nixon, the legal problems didn't disappear just because he resigned and flew away.

          But on top of that there are all the state laws that the jerk has probably broken in his career, not just the federal stuff. Violations that probably wouldn't have come to light if he'd lost the election.

          The main hope the doofus-in-chief has is that he's mentally incompetent to stand trial by 2022.

          • Ad 12.2.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 8:57 pm

            It's possible that a Democrat President would pardon Trump. But no.

            Trump's main hope is to get re-elected in 2020. He lives or dies on that. He knows it.

            With the Democrats now having only 14 months to pull themselves out of incoherence, disunity and splitting, Trump's chances get better and better every time the Democrat candidates open their mouths.

            • Macro 12.2.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 9:43 pm

              I'm not quite sure where you get that incoherence of the Democrat Party from Ad. I read one hell of a lot of commentary form the left in the US – sure there are 20 odd candidates hoping to get the chance to be the pick for presidential candidate but they are slowly sorting that out and there are some pretty impressive candidates there. Generally speaking, there is a marked shift to the left, and there will be a far more progressive platform than that proposed by Hillary. Bernie and Elizabeth Warren are in fact two sides of the same coin and are polling almost neck and neck for second spot. Kamala Harris has also impressed but doesn't have the same suite of policy that Elizabeth has stacked up. However, who ever does finally win the chance, they will have an impressive and fairly progressive suite of policies, because women and black women are going to be a dominant factors in this forthcoming election, and they are movements that demand attention.

              Whilst Biden currently leads the race his support is primarily based on familiarity, but there are definite signs that as the others become better known and understood that support is waining. He is also being forced to amend his platform more to conform to the more progressive candidates platforms and I believe that we will see more of this as the process continues. Ultimately the chosen candidate will have a suite of policies that meets the desires of the majority and the charisma to inspire voters. Even now, the choice is between Trump and almost any democrat, and almost any democrat wins.

              As for the supposed economic miracle of the tax cuts for the wealthy the reality of a small and in some case nil tax relief for the middle to low income earners is hitting home. The job growth is not being met with increased wages growth and the the realisation is that the so called "wonderful economy" of Trump is only of benefit to the rich. Yes his support base remains at around 40% mainly the die hard repugnants who will vote republican no matter who or what, but that is just about it.

              My only fear is that with the current judgement of the Supreme Court for the partisan Gerrymandering of districts, that the Republicans will now be redrawing voting maps as fast as they can to ensure victory in the Congress, no matter what.

              • McFlock …
                8 July 2019 at 9:49 pm

                I think they learned from repug the debacle that got dolt45 the primaries – splitting up the debates was a good idea, as was introducing the 60k individual donor mark to participate as an alternative to the polling threshold.

                If there's still a dozen candidates at the last primary, it could be a problem. I suspect that well before then a bunch of the more bland ones will have withdrawn and supported someone who overtakes Biden with the assistance. No idea who, though.

              • Ad …
                8 July 2019 at 10:16 pm

                The Democrats have no settled policy on:

                – healthcare

                – trade

                – international relations

                – immigration

                – labour relations

                – the economy

                – defence

                – education

                or even

                – Donald Trump

                They have no candidate, and will have about 10 months of campaigning in which they have one.

                Your confidence that the low-waged proletariat will arise in the Democrats favour is another re-run of the election that got Trump in there.

                • McFlock …
                  8 July 2019 at 10:34 pm

                  But presidential politics doesn't involve party platforms. It involves candidate platforms. Warren has a shedload of policy, other candidates go on good vibes. The winner of the candidacy will get to argue their policy in the main election. Whether that winner has a comprehensive policy base is up to the democrats.

                  • Ad …
                    8 July 2019 at 10:42 pm

                    Macro was trying to make a policy argument in favour of the Democrats.

                    The Democrats currently do not have a strong policy platform.

                    The Democrats currently do not have a strong candidate platform.

                    The Democrats are a lot weaker than 2016.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 July 2019 at 10:51 pm

                      Most of the democrat candidates are much more left wing this time around, and the one who comes to mind as being more right wing economically got boos.

                      This time around strong candidates are favouring universal healthcare and progressive taxation. Warren and Sanders are just the vanguard, the dems have been pushed quite a bit left by last year's elections. "Socialism" is seen as a realistic campaigning word.

                      And more importantly I think that if the primaries go to someone who stands up and speaks honestly when dealing with the orange wanderer, he's a single-termer. If they take a safe but bland option, they're fucked again.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 11:03 pm

                      Sanders lost his chance when he indorse do Hillary Clinton, and he's just to old. Y'know they call Warren Pocahontas. These are there own people saying this. There's a slime Chance of Actually winning with Tulsi because she's a serving member of the army. I say a slime chance because Pilose won't indorse Tulsi so the DNC won't indorse Tulsi.

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    9 July 2019 at 12:14 pm

                    @McFlock, "If they take a safe but bland option, they're fucked again" true that, but Dem voters will have to watch candidates who speak with forked tongue..Cory Booker, Kamala Harris and Biden of course come to mind, others in that 20 included.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 1:30 pm

                      Dunno about forked tongues, but they seem to be less enthusiastic about serious change.

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    9 July 2019 at 4:56 pm

                    "Dunno about forked tongues, but they seem to be less enthusiastic about serious change." I would say that shifting left because they think that is where there are votes to be had, but with no intention of carrying out anything that they say or imply in their desprate attempt to remain relevant, could be used to define the term 'speaks with forked tongue'.

                    Most of those 20 on the stage over those two nights have no real intention of making any real changes, and of the few that do, most would crumble at the first sign of resistance from the Republicans, let alone the huge pushback that would come from within the Democratic infrastructure itself (you know that huge part of the DNC that is beholden to corporate interests and the military industrial complex).

                    If a real change in direction in the USA internationally is what you would like to see then Bernie 2020 is the one, no question.

                    What they do domestically is their own business.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 5:07 pm

                      Well, being pressured in one direction or another is how democracy works. Sure, they might not want the universal healthcare most are making nice sounds over, but if they make zero move towards it after being elected then they get eaten the following election. GHWB and "no new taxes", for example.

                      Frankly the main change we need to be looking for internationally is a return to predictable and rational statecraft, rather than destabilisation. This launch/nowait bullshit is what causes accidental armageddon, and we've got enough global problems that might spark that off already.

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    9 July 2019 at 6:00 pm

                    Really? " a return to predictable and rational statecraft" exactly when has the USA displayed that trait in the last fifty or so years…and further back from that…

                    You really are looking at the past through some rose tinted glasses there pal, the only difference with Trump, is that he is so unhinged that its looks the the actions of a mad man, but it has always been exactly the same more or less, just sold a bit or a lot better, depending on who was POTUS.

                    • Morrissey …
                      9 July 2019 at 6:02 pm

                      "Predictable and rational statecraft"….

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 6:08 pm

                      Not rose tinted. Most nations do display it. It's when they lose their cool that shit escalates by accident. Able Archer 83 comes to mind. It ebbs and flows in different powers at different times. Russia and China are doing it. The US is currently impulsive, sabre-rattling, fitful, and without clear foreign policy objectives. The lack of clear leadership has resulted in different cliques working against each other, and policy changes depends on the last person with whom dolt45 spent ten minutes alone. That literally resulted in a launch order.

                      Nixon masqueraded as a madman as a negotiating ploy.

                      If the orange one is doing the same, I really have to applaud his committment to the bit.

            • Adrian Thornton 12.2.1.1.1.2
              9 July 2019 at 12:06 pm

              "

              Trump's chances get better and better every time the Democrat candidates open their mouths."..what do you mean by that, Bernie Sanders message has and is resonating, I haven't seen anything he has said helping Trump in any way?

    • Macro 12.3
      8 July 2019 at 5:32 pm

      You actually have to ask!??

    • Gabby 12.4
      8 July 2019 at 5:58 pm

      He appears to have appointed a bunch of crooks to positions of power gozzer.

  13. Ad 13
    8 July 2019 at 5:02 pm

    Trump's odds of winning in 2020 are increasing with most bookies at each point that Biden declines and Warren and Harris increase.

    He will reasonably be sold as the guy who extended the Obama economic boom with tax cuts, and also retreated the U.S. from globalisation ….. with the added benefit of being undented by the Mueller report from any disciplinary point of view, and being the first President in a century to not give a damn about the media.

    He may be down in the polls, but with the Dems a hot mess, Trump still has a great chance of four more years.

    • Phil 13.1
      8 July 2019 at 5:19 pm

      being the first President in a century to not give a damn about the media.

      What, and I mean this as delicately & sensitively as I can possibly put it, the actual-fuck is wrong with your brain that you would type this unironically?

      • Macro 13.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 5:33 pm

        yes

      • Ad 13.1.3
        8 July 2019 at 8:26 pm

        Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan gave their every waking moment to providing them with precisely polished messages and stories, as if the mainstream media were fully a necessary part of government.

        Not Trump.

        Trump engages with his people through set pieces of his design, and through Twitter.

        The Trump Presidency would do just fine if every single mainstream media organization was pushed off a cliff. No other President in history can claim that.

        Otherwise if the mainstream media don't cover the messages he wants, he just turns permanently against them and finds more amenable channels.

        Trump is the first president to permanently weaken the power of the mainstream media machine. Altogether it's not a bad thing.

        The actual-fuck thing that is wrong is the mainstream media machine, and he is merely hastening their rapid decline.

        • Sam 13.1.3.1
          8 July 2019 at 8:40 pm

          Well first off this is the first god damn liberal thing that was said all day.

          Can can mainstream be saved? There's a whole bunch of streams now. Y'know can the liberal media be saved?

          They had a chance after Bush's WMDs went missing then blew it with the secound Iraq war. Our own media fell for the Urewra raids hook line and sinker.

          Yknow I don't really think these big media conglomerate give a fuck about the local hospital leaking shit everywhere or the local rail line going billionz over budget, until it's Labour government in office that is.

          Yknow Big Media had its chance. They had plenty of opportunity. They could even take a bit of there rod it right now to fund local news but they won't. They're greed. It's like Hosking in inverted commas.

          • Ad 13.1.3.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 9:01 pm

            Just imagine if CNN, MSNBC, and Fox all died tomorrow.

            Amazon, Facebook, Baidu and Twitter would take their place. As they are now.

            A few public broadcasting channels would remain, as would a few full subscriber models like The Guardian, Bloomberg, and New York Times.

            On average I'd say that would be better for democracy than the situation now.

            • Sam 13.1.3.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 9:12 pm

              In that situation I strongly suspect that all top content creators would have to all at once stop producing content. Then the tech billionaires would come crawling and renegotiate.

  14. mauī 14
    8 July 2019 at 6:14 pm

    Looks like we've firmly stepped into Alex Jones territory now…. Using a prosecutors 400+ page report on Trump and Russia collusion that in the end couldn't substantiate any, as the basis for an individual psychiatric report… One of those WTF moments!

  15. Jess NZ 15
    8 July 2019 at 6:20 pm

    Wow, this post really brought all the trolls to the yard with their nonsense emo-slogans!

    • Incognito 15.1
      8 July 2019 at 6:24 pm

      From a quick scroll through the comments it seems that an aggravating factor is one particular commenter who was let back onto the reserve today after a one-month ban by the SYSOP.

      • Gabby 15.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 6:30 pm

        He's certainly a starryeyed little fanboi isn't he.

        • Incognito 15.1.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 6:40 pm

          What I meant by “aggravating factor” is that one commenter aggravates another who then responds in kind, et cetera. In other words, it takes more than one to play this tedious game.

          These commenters are ruining a good post and spoiling it for all …

          • McFlock 15.1.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 6:44 pm

            oh ok I'll shut up then.

          • Sam 15.1.1.1.2
            8 July 2019 at 6:51 pm

            This opinion piece is as stupid as all those ones saying Russia hacked the presidency. Just imagine Trump did get successfully impeached, Trumos supporters could rightfully dig up hit pieces like this and say foreigners where committing treason against the President of the United States and pick up arms.

            To impeach Trump you need the vast majority of Washington and the Country on your side. We don't have either of those right now. If the DNC truely wanted to oust Trump they would do so by nominating Sanders or Tulsi Gabbrd but hey won't. And rehashing failed woke strategy from the past won't change a Trump victory.

          • WeTheBleeple 15.1.1.1.3
            8 July 2019 at 6:51 pm

            And I am innocent!

            Bahaaahaaahaaahaaa.

            I'm starting to realise arguing with the indefensible is pointless. But still easy to rise to….

            BTW the above (151112) is the second call to violence aka threat as an argument.

          • marty mars 15.1.1.1.4
            8 July 2019 at 8:00 pm

            "spoiling it for all …"

            ahh no – isn't spoiling it for me not even slightly. I enjoy watching the meta ebb and flow rather than the f=detail although sometimes the insults can be good.

            • Incognito 15.1.1.1.4.1
              8 July 2019 at 9:34 pm

              Enjoy it while it lasts.

              • Sam …
                8 July 2019 at 9:41 pm

                Are we still reading between the lines, Incognito?

                I think it's perfectly simple. You either do or you do not believe that Russia gave the White House to Trump.

                Now please, tell me. Who do you believe deserves respect?

      • Jess NZ 15.1.2
        8 July 2019 at 7:49 pm

        Totally agree. From today, I now have 2 posters on my list of 'bad faith – don't engage, no matter what'. With a couple of possibles. Posts would be much more educational (and shorter to scroll through the pile of waste) if we could refrain from hopping when the trolls say skip.

        You can always make a new comment with information addressing the points separately.

        • Incognito 15.1.2.1
          8 July 2019 at 9:40 pm

          A troll never acts alone. If nobody ‘feeds’ them and responds it is merely a troll attempt and they’d cease to exist, as it were.

          I wish others would follow your example!

          • Sam 15.1.2.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 9:47 pm

            Exept we know what happens when the left go to far. They start banning stuff, Y'know going about braking things. Usually you're meant to get well out of there in those situations. I like people like Jordan Peterson or a Martyn Bradbury who would find a prison cell equally comfy in ist her Stalins or Hitlers regime.

          • Jess NZ 15.1.2.1.2
            8 July 2019 at 9:56 pm

            Trolls have a basic and predictable set of trigger attempts based on outrage. If you can't believe 'somebody actually said that', there's little point in responding. Whether they believe it or not – no value in engaging.

            • McFlock 15.1.2.1.2.1
              8 July 2019 at 10:04 pm

              It's not just about persuasion.

              It's about exploring the depths of stupidity and hypocrisy. And it's funny when someone who says that another commenter has "no right" to say something also talks about the "sanctity of the U.S constitution".

              • Sam …
                8 July 2019 at 10:22 pm

                You're talking about impeaching a president based on lies. Do you understand that Muller was the one that on investigated Bushs WMD claims and found them to be true?

  16. In Vino 16
    8 July 2019 at 7:10 pm

    McFlock, ah think you gahn done Gahd's wahk. (Amurican accent..)

    Don't give up. Sam needs to shape up or ship out.

    • Sam 16.1
      8 July 2019 at 7:15 pm

      Who the fuck do you think you are?

      • In Vino 16.1.1
        8 July 2019 at 7:27 pm

        Ah reckon ah'm the holy mackeral. OK?

        • Sam 16.1.1.1
          8 July 2019 at 7:35 pm

          Earth to holy mackerel – There's absolutely zip fuck all evidence that Russia hacked the U.S presidency – over.

          • In Vino 16.1.1.1.1
            8 July 2019 at 7:45 pm

            That has NOTHING to do with my reply. I just treated you the way you so often treat the rest of us. I think a lot of us are sick of it. OK?

            • Sam 16.1.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2019 at 7:54 pm

              Okay. Wait there a sec while I find some one who cares for your feelings.

              • In Vino …
                8 July 2019 at 8:01 pm

                Do I look bovvered?

                • Sam …
                  8 July 2019 at 8:16 pm

                  Yeah I couldn't find anyone sorry.

                  • In Vino …
                    8 July 2019 at 8:30 pm

                    Sam -you never listen to anyone, and always run away through bluff and over-extended logic. Goodnight.
                    (I look forward to your next lengthy ban, and please note Mr Moderator – I do not remember engaging in a long debate with Sam at any time in the past: I was just disappointed to see his obfuscationary style reappear this evening.)

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 8:44 pm

                      Yeah I really don't give a shit if you sleep or not eh. I mean goodnight? I just take that as an insult.

                      yknow? I'm sure some one around here will care about your feelings more than me. Have patience.

                      [Sam last chance. Take a chill pill or take an enforced rest. Your choice – MS]

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 9:19 pm

                      Im still of the opinion that impeaching Trump based on a report that found zero evidence of collusion between Trump and Russoan bots or what ever is a low IQ strategy for impeaching Trump.

                      Now that the introductions are out of the way do you wave a counter argument?

                      Edit: @MS. Yk ow you’ve got heaps to say in defence of MCFlock. I couldn’t careless. I just want to know if you’ve got a coherent strategy that involves a new president?

                    • New view []
                      8 July 2019 at 10:06 pm

                      It’s not the Presidents fault he’s a lunatic because he can’t help that. It’s the tens of thousands of FW selfish ignorant Americans that voted for him that I don’t like. And just like you Sam I’m entitled to an opinion. The so called free world isn’t that much better than the not so free world. The greatest show on earth is just as corrupt as any other system in my opinion. Trump has a cult following. So did hitler. Their agendas are different but they both sucked in a nation.

                    • Sam …
                      8 July 2019 at 10:34 pm

                      Then I must profess my extreme displeasure in having to disagree with with you. Can see MS extreme discomfort in having to come to the wokens aid. I do not believe for a secound that Trump is in anyway like Hitler. Y'know Trump didn't have to beat people up to win, Hitler did. Y'know the Brown Shirts were famous for voter suppression.

                      Apprently if if your a pole geek it isn't that difficult to beat trump in a head to head. Y'know some universal healthcare, veterans affairs, a jobs program, progressive taxes and raising the minimum wage. Yk ow all the things that the woken DNC reject.

                    • New view []
                      9 July 2019 at 6:55 am

                      Wrong. Hitler took advantage of the fact that the Jews were unpopular. The German people were struggling and Jews on the whole were doing all right. It was easy to turn the general public against them. The public didn’t know where the Jews were sent. That’s beside the point. I’ve just read an article revealing the Appalling conditions in the detainee centres over there. Average jo blow American Trump supporters don’t give a shit. Looks similar to Nazi Germany to me.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 12:36 pm

                      No, I still disagree. Just because Trump won does not make America Nazi Germany.

                    • New view []
                      9 July 2019 at 5:55 pm

                      No it doesn’t but the way Trump has a cult following that has been hood winked by “Let’s make America great fuck anything else,” and the way he is allowing the detainees to be treated, maybe I can be forgiven for thinking there are similarities.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 6:15 pm

                      Well for one you've got it backwards. When Himler and others was wondering what to do with the Jews they actually copied the way the Americans handled there coloured problem by replicating the ghettos in Warsaw only the American policies was to brutal for them so the Nazis stuck the Jews in concentration camps so they could avoid the public lynching. They just knew there ideology would end if they paraded dead white bodies around. So they had to hide the shame.

                      And another thing is if America did liberalize immigration then that would be an acknowledgment of the failure of the War on Drugs in South America. Y'know and that's just not going to happen until the marijuana money multiplier (M2) = 12 which is short about 100 odd billion in global annual sales.

                    • New view []
                      9 July 2019 at 7:53 pm

                      The conditions the detainees are having to endure is well documented Sam. Trump is putting pressure on the Mexican Government by treating the detainees like shit. Half of the USA don’t give a dam the other half are not in Government. You’ve made your opinion clear but don’t ever think the majority of the free world think like you. The problems Trump has to deal with are real but when you use human misery as a stick you are not going down in history with a big tick.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 8:18 pm

                      I don't think the majority think like me. If I thought as the majority thinks I'd be a moron.

                      I mean did you know that a day pass into the US costs like $90 or something. A million people cross the US boarder everyday, legally. Not including air travel.

                      No, the US gets to decide its immigration policy. My only criticism of US immigration policy is that it is far more expensive than it has to be.

                    • New view []
                      9 July 2019 at 9:57 pm

                      Run for president Sam.

  18. Drowsy M. Kram 18
    8 July 2019 at 7:55 pm

    'Straight Out of Orwell': While Slashing Climate Regulations, Trump Plans Speech Touting His 'Environmental Leadership'

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/04/straight-out-orwell-while-slashing-climate-regulations-trump-plans-speech-touting

    “It’s understandable that the farce elicits ridicule, and no doubt some are relishing the coming photo-op of Trump and Boris Johnson upholding Anglo-American civilization. But for the world, it’s dead serious, from the destruction of the environment and the growing threats of terminal nuclear war to a long list of other crimes and horrors.”

    “It’s a mistake to “mis-underestimate” Trump (to borrow W. Bush’s neologism). He is a canny demagogue and manipulator, who is managing to maintain the allegiance of the adoring crowds that believe he is standing up for them against the hated elites while also ensuring that the primary Republican constituency of extreme wealth and corporate power are doing just fine, despite some complaints. And they surely are, in fact, making out like bandits with help from Trump and his associates.” – Noam Chomsky

    https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-trump-is-consolidating-far-right-power-globally/

    “The spectacle of expert analysts and thought leaders parsing the actions of a man with no expertise or capacity for analysis is the purest acid satire – but less because of how badly that expert analysis has failed than because of how sincerely misplaced it is… there is nothing here to parse, no hidden meanings or tactical elisions or slow-rolled strategic campaign.” – David Roth

    https://newrepublic.com/article/154100/making-sense-donald-trump-petulant-presidency

  19. Ad 19
    8 July 2019 at 9:07 pm

    If Trump had been a Democrat and run the same policies, the US left would be hailing him as the second coming.

    Anti-corporate media.

    Anti-military intervention, and withdrawing troops.

    Anti cold-war mentality and post WW2 alliances.

    Anti free trade.

    Anti Washington establishment.

    Anti intelligence community.

    Overriding hawks in the Situation Room.

    And of course global brand recognition so powerful that has obliterated the name of the previous president from the face of the earth.

    Plenty to complain about, but Trump has a lot of qualities that the left know they need now if they are going to win.

    • marty mars 19.1
      8 July 2019 at 9:13 pm

      yeah good radar there , incoming on its way – you mashed it hawkeye, frankly you may be a little too much hoolihan for most – likely potty would be my call.

  20. Ad 20
    8 July 2019 at 9:10 pm

    52.4% approve in the US according the poll-of-polls.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

    Without a strong candidate I think enough Dems will stay home. He's looking on message, highly funded, and ready to win.

    • McFlock 20.1
      8 July 2019 at 9:41 pm

      Dems are well capable of losing, but it's too early to tell whether they're keen for it or just going to do a boring campaign by the numbers and saunter to defeat.

    • Macro 20.2
      8 July 2019 at 9:48 pm

      Ad tRump has spent millions already on promoting himself, and it hasn't shifted his support base one iota.

  22. Dennis Frank 22
    9 July 2019 at 9:36 am

    Okay, I've been mulling the question over. Thirty years since the US was in a similar position (Reagan, Alzheimer's). He worked the remainder of his term. A certain amount of cabinet nurse-maiding, I presume.

    Since it all hinges on whether early onset dementia is happening, there's a useful list of signs to watch for here: https://www.dementia.nz/files/infosheet/about_dementia_2_diagdementia_nz.pdf

    The alternative explanation is that he's typical of most Americans: clueless about history. If this prevails, and muted preliminary reaction from the US establishment & media suggests that it will, then perception that he's still up to the job will prevail. Ignorance of history, in this scenario, is normal. Everyone goes "So what?"

    Trump waved the teleprompter straw-man at the media to explain George Washington's troops occupying airports 134 years before the first airport was built. He assumed the media are so stupid that they will believe it is much more likely that a teleprompter would think that than Trump. Haven't noticed anyone in the media disagreeing with him, so looks like the media tacitly accepts that the teleprompter did actually think that.

    • Gosman 22.1
      9 July 2019 at 9:39 am

      Why do you care about a flub he made at some event? Politicians do this all the time.

      • Dennis Frank 22.1.1
        9 July 2019 at 11:03 am

        Do I care? Not much, but the question of the mental health of the ruler of a superpower will always carry political weight. Nobody has suggested psychosis, so we're looking at lower-level mental degeneration.

        It did also occur to me that we ought to factor in Trump derangement syndrome. Hysterical leftists have been crying wolf about him for so long that when he finally does give them a valid basis the media just roll their eyes and file it as more of the same.

        I appreciate your signal that knowledge of history is irrelevant to politics, since it supports part of what I wrote, and dismissing it as a flub is valid on that basis.

        Yet I wonder how many per cent of centrists in the US electorate will not do that. I suspect it will be sufficient to threaten his re-election prospects. Too many people will shift into seeing him as too wacky to rely on.

  23. soddenleaf 23
    9 July 2019 at 12:49 pm

    Trump is up to the job. He is still there. He still has a machine data crunching bad press into to piles, bad press he starts that help him with his base and bad press that harms him, and his people need to distract, distorted and dismiss. Take children separated from their mother's, he needs the family first Christian lobby, it hurts him if they get sick of him. That a women has to be told that they have to take a pregnancy to term, no rights, no right of self defense, oh and god can abort anytime just coz.

    Trump won because it didn't matter about the ideas, not that Hillary was doing much reaching. Trump won because very very rich people pushed him into the tv for decades. Trump won because the press runs around chasing his latest tweets. Trump won coz he's going after China, he's chummy with dictators, he sows chaos, and maybe jobs will start returning to the U.S. He will be hard to beat, because the media love him and hate fact base journalism, anyway Murdoch brought out the last hang outs of that form.

    Trump should not win if democrats expose how it hurts his supporters to his supporters, the Christian lobby losing all moral authority, trick me once okay… ..white working class… etc.

    • Sam 23.1
      9 July 2019 at 1:06 pm

      Its arguable that the foetus is apart of the woman so her choice.

      Allthough the moment it becomes like some sort of plastics surgery hotel spa experience I think is wrong.

      So abortion should be avalable, safe and rare.

      Do I think the DNC could deliver on this I mean no.

      The DNC and especially the woke are just throwing words at everything like a boxer throwing haymakers like an idiot. And unfortunately there's no cure for idiocy.

  24. soddenleaf 24
    9 July 2019 at 12:54 pm

    oh and his so old, whoever runs with him is sure to be prez. health worries put pense into the big chair. Really americans want theocracy!

  25. mosa 25
    9 July 2019 at 1:37 pm

    Is POTUS up to the job?

    Bernie Sanders is.

    And for some reason should Donald ( probably unlikely ) fall then Mike Pence is waiting.

    [Please stick to one handle – Incognito]

  26. xanthe 26
    9 July 2019 at 1:46 pm

    There is a sense in which Trump is the most "up to the job" POTUS in a long time .

    an important aspect of the presidency is that it is an individual NOT a group think . This is actually a very important safeguard against the tyranny of the collective (i hope you have all read george Orwells “animal farm”) the threat of group think going AWOL is a very real one and the position of POTUS is a safeguard.

    In the case of Trump , he stands head and shoulders above recent presidents and specifically bush and obama in that he is not just a mouthpiece of the deep state, industrial military complex, media empires that actually run the USA. he may be wrong and loopy (and yes my opinion is the he is both) But he is not beholden to deep state or fake media and this is a good thing which we should applaud

    • Dennis Frank 26.1
      9 July 2019 at 1:58 pm

      Excellent comment. You got the deep context accurately. A living paradox, gleefully flouting all the prevailing preconceptions, making pundits & media peripheral to the political action. If he isn't actually losing his marbles, unstoppable unless one of the Dem contenders morphs into a comparable superhero (just like in Marvel comix).

    • RedLogix 26.2
      9 July 2019 at 4:48 pm

      Yes that makes sense to me. Trump is an infuriatingly deficient and flawed man, but the left persistently fails to understand him or why so many people voted for him.

    • McFlock 26.3
      9 July 2019 at 5:00 pm

      Which of his actions have undermined this "deep state":

      Appointing several generals to his cabinet? Continuing purchases of weapons too expensive to be used in a peer environment? Massive tax cuts to the rich? Removing protections for consumers and the environment?

      Has there been some other policy enacted that thwarted the ongoing domination of what you call the "deep state"? Or is he just a loud, colourful noise keeping eternal preschoolers happy while the standard power structures in the US shear the sheep ever more closely?

      • Ad 26.3.1
        9 July 2019 at 6:29 pm

        How has Trump undermined the 'deep state':

        1. Actively repudiating most of his intelligence agencies, multiple times, over his Presidency

        2. Firing the Head of the FBI in his first year

        3. Actively sabotaging his own Department of Justice into an investigation into him and the indictments of dozens of his operatives, over 18 months

        4. Publicly undermining his own officials' strategy and tactics across the Middle East, multiple times

        • McFlock 26.3.1.1
          9 July 2019 at 6:35 pm

          1&2 are part of 3. 4 changes according to who is in the room with him.

          And how does any of that undermine the "deep state", anyway?

          A criminal trying to obstruct justice isn't after revolutionary change, just self preservation.

          • Sam 26.3.1.1.1
            9 July 2019 at 6:44 pm

            Yknow there's taped conversations and transcripts of FBI agents actively conspiring to investigate trump in an effort to install Hillary Clinton as president eh?

            I clearly remember at the time saying here on the sub standard that the FBI, CIA, and latter on the DoJ was in active revolt against the soon to be President of the United States. And I do believe those statements induced the same Clinton apologies that you are rehearsing now.

            • McFlock 26.3.1.1.1.1
              9 July 2019 at 6:50 pm

              What you "clearly remember" is unlikely to have anything more than a purely coincidental relationship with reality.

              • Sam …
                9 July 2019 at 7:20 pm

                I'll take coincidence over apologising for Hillary Clinton anyday. Thanks sport.

                • McFlock …
                  9 July 2019 at 7:56 pm

                  See what I mean? Another swing and a miss.

                  • Sam …
                    9 July 2019 at 8:32 pm

                    You have to be in some reeducation camp in another universe to be able to deny the that the FBI, DoJ and CIA is in active revolt against The President of The United States.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 8:35 pm

                      In this universe, dolt45 puts kids in concentration camps.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 8:50 pm

                      Iv never seen or heard of consentration camps on US soil, McFlock. Do you have any evidence for that?

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 8:52 pm

                      Like some of the kids haven't seen toothpaste or soap since being detained?

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 9:01 pm

                      Yknow what I would do. And I would really do this. I would build 2 fences across the US/Mexican boarder and put lions and crocodiles in the the middle. And anyone that makes it across we would celebrate as heroes and reward them with a pathway to US citizenship. Y'know we could even live stream it and sell it for $10 per/hr and it would probably be good for jobs or something. Y'know I don't think normal conservative or liberal policy can solve the US immigration question.

                    • McFlock …
                      9 July 2019 at 9:18 pm

                      I believe you would.

                      Fortunately your empathy is matched by your intelligence. Besides the logistical costs of stocking a corridor a few thousand km long with apex predators to a sufficient density to give decent odds of an attack (and the cost of feeding them when crossings are not so frequent), what you're suggesting is a problem faced by wildebeest and buffalo on their constant migrations, and the simple sollution is to run as a herd. You've basically said you'll give full citizenship to around 98% of migrants who do not enter via formal ports of entry.

                    • Sam …
                      9 July 2019 at 9:38 pm

                      As I said I do not believe liberal conservative policy can solve the US immigration question. The juggxrnaught is just a rouse. It would be the same as walking across Africa, bloody easy. Your desires to find outrage limits you. Americans! they would have a reason to accept imirgrants with open arms instead of with guns.

            • Macro 26.3.1.1.1.2
              9 July 2019 at 9:13 pm

              LOL that so called "tape" was two FBI agents texting each other concerned about the creep – as any normal person would be – you know a "WTF! this guy is insane!" sort of conversation between friends. Incidentally they are no longer part of the FBI.

              If you have any information to the contrary then you need to put up a credible link or STFU.

              • Sam …
                9 July 2019 at 9:25 pm

                Fuck off. Don't tell me to shut the fuck up. I posted the relevant stuff on here at the time.

                First off one of those too FBI agents you casually dismiss was the lead investigator into Trumps Putin bot bot claims. It's in the bloody mueller report if you'd bothered to read more than the bits that confirm your conspiracy theories.

                • Macro …
                  9 July 2019 at 9:36 pm

                  So you have no proof for you outrageous claims, and yes I have read the Mueller Report, and you obviously have not.

                  • Sam …
                    9 July 2019 at 9:47 pm

                    No one provided any evidence of there claims so I don't have to provide any evidence to counter there claims. That's fundamentally why I replied to you in the manner and tone that I did.

    • Anne 26.4
      9 July 2019 at 5:35 pm

      9 July 2019 at 5:29 pm
      I don't think Trump supporters are capable of deep thinking? They wouldn't know what a "Deep State" was if they fell over one.

      Imo, the reason most of them support him is because they are as uninformed and ignorant as he is. Thus, they think to themselves… gee, he thinks the same as me (euphemism for base ignorance) so I'm gonna vote for him. Sure, they rabbit on about how he's gonna help us workers and the other lot did nothing for us blah blah, but the reality is he's doing the opposite.

      By the time he's finished with the US they will be in dire straits. He's even told them:

      "America is a clean country so we won't be affected by Climate Change".

      and the idiots are so ignorant they believe him.

      As for the fake media. Are you kidding? He and his fundamentalist mates are the ones creating the fake stories. The media are merely repeating them.

      • Sam 26.4.1
        9 July 2019 at 5:49 pm

        No Anne. Trump didn't win because his republican voters are like Trump. Trump has actually voted democrats his whole life, how does that effect your theory that all republican voters are just like Trump? Please do tell.

        No Trump won because the DNC stole Bernie Sanders candidacy so a whole bunch of democrat voters just stayed home. The bulshit is that Trump won because he's homophob, xenophob, transphob, or because you have a penis, a vagina, or you have no Gentiles, or you're Hispanic or coloured. No that's all bullshit. Trump won because Hillary Clintons campaign was totally shit. And these complex calculus equations is just PTSD like symptoms because the woke just can't handle the fact that their stratagies are shit.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 26.4.1.1
          9 July 2019 at 6:26 pm

          "Trump has actually voted democrats his whole life" Really?! What's your source? Who revealed Trump’s voting history?

          It’s possible that Trump occasionally voted for Democratic party candidates (only backing ‘winners’ and all that), but has Trump really voted for Democratic party candidates his whole life?

          • Sam 26.4.1.1.1
            9 July 2019 at 6:37 pm

            Larry King. Was a few years back now. In the run up to the campaign Larry King who's friends with Trump was giving Trumps back story on his RT show.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 26.4.1.1.1.1
              9 July 2019 at 7:03 pm

              Thanks Sam. Found this image suggesting that Trump might be a 'variable voter', although how would anyone (apart from Trump himself) actually know? And would an answer from Trump necessarily get us any closer to the truth?

              https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2015/11/TrumpVotesv5.jpg&w=1484

              • Sam …
                9 July 2019 at 7:18 pm

                No, well what I think the truth is. Let's take Trumps foreign policy because that's something that interests me. His foreign policy I think is that the USA has enough military might to curb stomp any nation in short order – which I think is wrong. As soon The US military hits urban areas or nuclear armed states there doctrin and material falls over. That's his policy but I think it has flaws in it. But you'd only really know this if you where to take an objective view, Y'know not even American generals would not admit that there machine isn't as mighty as they claim.

                • McFlock …
                  9 July 2019 at 7:58 pm

                  Sam makes claim.

                  Sam's claim is demonstrably false.

                  Sam changes topic.

                  Blessed be the Way of Sam.

                  • Sam …
                    9 July 2019 at 8:28 pm

                    Well you're wrong about the free speech debate

                    wrong about Russia's gate

                    all that garbage about the patriarchy

                    do you remember that time you tried convincing me about the virtues of chemically castrating all young males while whispering into there ears that they're all rapists. Do you reminder that or is it Trump bad all of a sudden my boy.

              • Dennis Frank …
                9 July 2019 at 8:40 pm

                From McFlock's link: "According to the New York City Board of Elections, Trump has changed his party affiliation five times since registering as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987."

                My guess is he voted Democrat during the seventies due to his dad's deep involvement. Since Fred Jr failed his father as oldest son, and Donald was dead keen to learn from & follow in his father's footsteps from an early age, he naturally maintained the professional arrangements that the business required. By which I mean politicians were part of how things got done, and in New York real estate it was the Democratic Party that had all the right connections. The details are in several biographies…

          • McFlock 26.4.1.1.2
            9 July 2019 at 6:49 pm

            If he's ever voted for anyone other than himself, it's most likely bullshit. He was a registered republican in the 80's through the 90's.

            • Andre 26.4.1.1.2.1
              9 July 2019 at 6:53 pm

              Just buying them on both sides is a lot more effective in looking after his interests than his one vote could ever be.

  27. Jess NZ 27
    9 July 2019 at 6:17 pm

    'But as Noam Chomsky argues in an interview with Truthout this week, “there is a strategy”—one that has empowered the far right across the globe and ultimately endangers human life on earth. If Ronald Reagan’s presidency was a tragedy, he speculates, then Trump’s is history repeating itself as farce.'

    https://www.alternet.org/2019/07/there-is-a-strategy-noam-chomsky-dismantles-the-trump-mcconnell-republican-party-con-game/

    'Bernstein added, “In fact, there are dozens and dozens of leads in there about (President Donald) Trump’s business dealings, things having to do with women as well that we know about from elsewhere — and trying to keep women silent.”

    Mueller’s report, Bernstein continues, offers important information “about (Trump’s) business dealings, about oligarchs, about money laundering, about Ponzi schemes.”

    https://www.alternet.org/2019/07/carl-bernstein-warns-media-over-coverage-of-the-mueller-report-i-think-weve-made-a-big-mistake/

  28. David Mac 28
    9 July 2019 at 7:14 pm

    I much prefer his work in The Apprentice, he deserved that Tony.

  29. Jess NZ 29
    10 July 2019 at 9:48 am

    Here's a really long answer to 'why so hostile to Trump?' that I'm sharing because it's awesome and comprehensive.

    'Chris O'Leary:

    I’ll take a stab at this. Before you pass my answer off as “Another Liberal Snowflake” consider that 1.) I'm an independent centrist who has voted Republican way more often in my life than Democrat, and 2.) if you want to call someone who spent the entire decade of his 20’s serving in the Marine Corps a snowflake, I’d be ready to answer the question what did you do with your 20’s?

    Why Liberals (And not-so liberals) are against President Trump.

    A.) He lies. A LOT. Politifact rates 69% of the words he speaks as “Mostly False or worse” Only 17% of the things he says get a “Mostly True” or better rating. That is an absolutely unbelievable number. How he doesn’t speak more truth by mistake is beyond me. To put it in context, Obama’s rating was 26% mostly false or worse, and I had a problem with that. Many of Trump’s former business associates report that he has always been a compulsive liar, but now he’s the President of the United States, and that’s a problem. And this is a man who expects you to believe him when he points at other people and says “They’re lying”

    B.) He’s an authoritarian populist, not a conservative. He advances regressive social policy while proposing to expand federal spending and federalist authority over states, both of which conservatives are supposed to hate.

    C.) He pretends at Christianity to court the Religious Right but fails to live anything resembling a Christ-Like Life.

    D.) His nationalist “America First” message effectively alienates us and removes us from our place as leaders in the international community.

    E.) His ideas on “Keeping us safe” are all thinly veiled ideas to remove our freedoms, he is, after all, an authoritarian first. They also are simply bad ideas.

    F.) He couldn’t pass a 3rd-grade civics exam. He doesn't know what he’s doing. He doesn't understand how international relations work, he doesn’t understand how federal state or local governments work, and every time someone tries to “Run it like a business” it’s a spectacular failure. See Colorado Springs’ recent history as an example. The Short, Unhappy Life of a Libertarian Paradise And that was a businessman with a MUCH better business track record than Trump. We are talking about a man who lost money owning a freaking gambling casino.

    G.) He behaves unethicaly and always has. As a businessman, he constantly left in his wake unpaid contractors and invoices, litigation, broken promises, whatever he could get away with.

    H.) He is damaging our relationships with our best international friends while kissing up to nations that do not have our best interests in mind. To his question “Wouldn't’ it be great to have better relations with Russia?” The answer is Yes. But it is RUSSIA who needs to earn that, who must stop doing the things that are damaging to that relationship, or we are simply weaker for it.

    I.) He has never seen a shortcut he didn't like, and you can’t take shortcuts in government. “Nuclear Option, Remove the Filibuster, I’ll change the Constitution by Executive Order…Don…what happens when you remove the filibuster and the other side retakes the majority in the Senate? Suddenly want that filibuster back? What happens if you manage to change the Constitution by Executive Order and an Anti-2A President wins the next election?

    J.) He behaves and has always behaved as an unabashed racist. Yes, I’ve seen your favorite meme that claims he was never accused of racism before the Democrats…Absolutely false. Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2019 See the Central Park 5, the lawsuits and fines resulting from his refusal to lease to black tenants, the 1992 lost appeal trying to overturn penalties for removing black dealers from tables, his remarks to the house native American affairs subcommittee in 1993. The man sees and treats racial groups of people as monoliths.

    K.) He is systematically steamrolling regulations specifically designed to keep a disaster like the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis from happening again.

    L.) He speaks and acts like a demagogue. He sees the Legislative and Judicial branches of government as inconveniences, blows up at criticism no matter how deserved and actively tries to countermand constitutional processes, not to mention attempts to blackmail and coerce people who are saying negative things about him

    M.) His choices for top positions, with the exception of Gen. Mattis, who is a gem, have been horrendous. A secretary of Education without a resume that would get her hired as a small town grammar school principal, A secretary of Energy who didn't know the Department of Energy was responsible for nuclear reserves, an EPA head whose biggest accomplishments to date had been suing the EPA on multiple occasions, an FCC head who while working for Verizon actively lobbied to kill net neutrality, and an Attorney General who thinks pot is “nearly as bad as heroin” and asked Congress for permission to go after legal pot businesses in states where it is legal. (There goes that great Republican States rights rally cry again, right? *Crickets*) An Interim AG after Firing his First AG who’s appointment is probably unconstitutional.

    N.) He denies scientific fact. Ever notice that the only people you hear denying climate change are politicians and lobbyists? 99% of actual scientists studying the issue agree that it’s real, man-made and caused by greenhouse gasses. Ever notice that every big disaster movie starts with a bunch of politicians in a room ignoring a scientist's warning?

    0.) He does not have the temperament to lead this nation. He is Thin Skinned, childish, and a bully, never mind misogynistic, boorish, rude, and incapable of civil discourse.

    P.) He still does not understand that the words he speaks, or tweets, are the official position of 1/3 of the US government, and so does not govern his words. He still thinks when he speaks it’s good ol’ Donald Trump. It’s not. It’s the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. You have probably spread a meme or two around talking about how no president’s every word has ever been dissected before…YES, THEY ALWAYS HAVE. It’s just that every other president in our lifetime has understood the importance of his words and took great care to govern his speech. Trump blurts out whatever comes to his mind then complains when people talk about what a dumb thing that was to say.

    Q.) He’s unqualified. If you owned a small business and were looking for someone to manage it, and an unnamed resume came across your desk and you saw 6 bankruptcies, showing a man who had failed to make money running CASINOS, would you hire him? He is a very poor businessman. This is a man it has been estimated would have been worth $10 BILLION more if he’d just taken what his father had given him, invested it in Index Funds and left it alone.

    R.) He is President. But he refuses to take a leadership position and understand that he is everyone’s President. Conservatives complain about liberals chanting “Not my President” while Trump himself behaves as if no one but his supporters matter.

    S.) He’s a blatant hypocrite. He spent 8 years bitching Obama out for his family trips, or golfing, or any time he took for himself, and what does he do? He was already on his 20th golf outing in APRIL of his 1st year in office. He constantly rants about respect for the military, yet can’t be bothered to attend the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day because of a little rain. (And that excuse about Marine One not being able to fly in the rain is HILARIOUS.)

    T.) He’s a misogynist. It's not really ok in this day and age to be a misogynist, but it’s not a huge deal if you’re a private citizen. It’s a pretty big deal if you hate half the people you’re elected to lead. The disdain for women seeps out of his …whatever…. and he just can’t hide it.

    U.) Face it. In any other election “Grab Em’ By the Pussy” would have been the end of that candidate’s chances. Back in the 90’s I used to marvel about how Teflon Bill Clinton was. I no longer do. The fact that he managed to slip by on that is as much a statement about how much people hate Hillary Clinton as it is about what is wrong with politics in this country right now.

    V.) He has one response to a differing opinion. Attack. A good leader listens to criticism, to different points of view, is capable of self-reflection, tries to guide people to his point of view, and when necessary stands his ground and defends his convictions. Any of that sound like Trump? His default is not to Lead, it's to attack. Scorched Earth. The Jim Acosta reaction is a good example. There was no defense of his convictions when Acosta was asking him repeated questions about his rhetoric on the caravan. His response was to attack Acosta.

    W.) He takes credit for everything positive while deflecting blame for everything negative. Look at him with the Stock Market. He’s been bragging about it since day one, and to give credit where credit is due, speculation on coming deregulation early in his presidency did fuel some rapid growth, but to pretend that it’s all him, that we’re not in the 9th year of the longest bull market in history and THEN, when the standard market volatility that deregulation inevitably brings about starts to show up? Yeah. Look at yesterday. Hey! Stock Markets losing because the Democrats won! Do I need to bring out the Stock market chart for the last 10 Years again?

    X.) He emboldens the worst among us. Counter-protesters are slammed into by a car while countering actual Nazi rally, and the response is there’s fault on “Both Sides” The media is at fault for a nut job sending them and Donald’s favorite targets pipe bombs. The truth is not all Republicans, not all Trump Supporters are racist, fascist lunatics. Many are just taken in by the bombastic personality and are living in an information bubble made worse by the fact that they unfollow anyone and ignore any source of information that makes them feel uncomfortable. People on the left do that too. The Biggest problem the right has right now is that the worst of the Right is the loudest and the most in your face, and the actual right, especially the Freaking PRESIDENT needs to be standing up and saying No. Those are not our values.

    Y.) He seems to think the Constitution of The United States, the document that IS who we are, the document he took an oath to support and defend is some sort of inconvenience. He demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of Constitution, from believing he can alter the 14th through executive order, to thinking The free exercise clause in the first amendment somehow supersedes the establishment clause (not that he really understands either) or that the free exercise clause only applies to Christians. Or his attacks on freedom of expression and the press. He repeatedly makes it clear that if he’s read them, he does not understand Articles 1–3, and that’s something he really should have before he took the job, because they’re not going away.

    Z.) I’ll use Z for something I do blame him for, but the rest of us have to carry the blame too. Polarization. This country is more politically polarized than I can remember in my lifetime. Some of you who are a few years older than I may remember how it was in the late 60’s when construction workers in New York were being applauded for beating up hippies, I think it’s pretty close to that right now, but that was before my time. And he is the cause of much of the current level polarization, but also the result. It didn't’ start with Trump. We’ve been going down this road I think since the eruption of the Tea Party in the early years of the Obama Administration. I do hope the tide turns before it gets much worse because the thing that scares me more than anything is what if that keeps going the way it has been?

    [Please always include a link to the source of material you are quoting. A link with selected text, with emphasis added if necessary, is preferable to a copy & paste job of a (very) long comment as people tend to not read it and it breaks up the flow of the discussion thread too much. Given that this is at the bottom of a good post that probably has run its course it can stay as is – Incognito]

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