Key runs from Waitangi

Written By: - Date published: 3:36 pm, February 5th, 2012 - 176 comments
Categories: activism, john key, Maori Issues - Tags:

All the indications were that Key was in for a rough ride at Waitangi this year. And sure enough, John Key chased from Waitangi (video link). In other Herald coverage:

Prime Minister John Key and fellow politicians were verbally abused by protesters during ugly scenes at Waitangi this morning.

Protester Wi Popata heckled prominent Maori MPs at Te Tii Marae, calling Dr Pita Sharples, Te Ururoa Flavell and Hekia Parata “John Key’s niggers.”

“The Treaty’s not for sale,” chanted others.

“You should be ashamed of yourselves.”

Maori Wardens and Diplomatic Security Services members kept them away from Mr Key as he made a forced exit after a farcical gathering, during which officials could not be heard for all the chanting.

One protester cried “scumbag” as Mr Key entered his vehicle. …

The mood turned to calm after the Prime Minister’s exit, with delegations from Labour and the Greens finding a more cordial atmosphere than Government representatives had experienced earlier.

From Stuff:

Prime Minister John Key says fear did not drive him from today’s Waitangi Day celebrations at Te Tii Marae, adding there was good security in place. Key and his entourage made a quick retreat from Te Tii Marae after a standoff with protesters, who drowned out his speech with megaphones. …

As protesters advanced on him, plain-clothed police and Maori wardens attempted to hold the angry mob back, but the protesters still squeezed forward. Key and the other dignitaries made a quick escape with Maori wardens protecting them on either side.

Screams of “Go home National” could be heard as his cars left for the Copthorne Hotel.

If the Maori Party needed any further reason to reconsider their servile relationship with National, they have it. And if National needed any further reason to fear the backlash from dropping the consideration of “inconvenient” treaty clauses from legislation, well they have that too.

Update: Title of post updated in accordance with comments. Read Marty Mars’ take on events here.

176 comments on “Key runs from Waitangi ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. chris73 1
    5 February 2012 at 3:39 pm

    John Key should do what HC did and just not go back to Waitangi until the idiots learn how to behave

    • McFlock 1.1
      5 February 2012 at 3:45 pm

      yup – they gotta learn their place, eh chris?
       

      • chris73 1.1.1
        5 February 2012 at 4:07 pm

        Yes

        • McFlock 1.1.1.1
          5 February 2012 at 4:15 pm

          gotta treat their betters with respect and dignity?

          • chris73 1.1.1.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 4:23 pm

            Seems to me the protestors wern’t interested in listening, just shouting thier slogans.

            They’re just like kids really…just want to make a loud noise, arn’t interested in listening and just want to be the center of attention. Throw in some TV cameras and I suppose its no surprise they go over the top

            • muzza 1.1.1.1.1.1
              5 February 2012 at 4:28 pm

              What, like when the government listens to the people, and lies on TV every day “news” is broadcast.

              • james111 …
                5 February 2012 at 5:48 pm

                Muzza so true just like Helen Listened on the Anti Smacking Bill, Homosexual law reform bill, and the Privy council to name but a few great listening skills

                • McFlock …
                  5 February 2012 at 6:02 pm

                  Seriously? You still think homosexuality should be illegal?  
                     
                  What a fucktard.
                   

                  • Jassen …
                    5 February 2012 at 9:45 pm

                    Why can’t he have an opinion. Just like yours but opposite. Doesn’t make him a fucktard. You may be religious, he may not, doesn’t make you right.

                    A lot of people right now think you guys in here are fucktards but that is their opinion.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 February 2012 at 10:10 pm

                      Making illegal what 100% consenting adults do in their own home without harming the rest of society?
                         
                      fucktard, each and every time. A big, huge “Fucktard” flag, with a capital “F” and sparkly bits around the “tard”. Because homophobia is like racism and sexism, albeit applied in different ways. Anyone who says homosexuality should be illegal cannot name a reason why slavery should be illegal, or why women should have the vote.

                    • Jassen …
                      5 February 2012 at 10:29 pm

                      I’m sorry, why woman “should ” have the vote?

                      Not talking about homophobia, I’m talking about his opinion. Just coz he got one doesn’t make him wrong. I think you will find that a lot of people don’t agree with having homosexuality thrown down their throats and that was his point.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 February 2012 at 11:17 pm

                       
                      I’m sorry, why woman “should ” have the vote?
                      Don’t apologise – you’re also asking why slavery “should” be illegal. Ok, yeah, apologise for both.

                        
                       
                      Not talking about homophobia, I’m talking about his opinion. Just coz he got one doesn’t make him wrong. I think you will find that a lot of people don’t agree with having homosexuality thrown down their throats and that was his point.

                      “Thrown down their thoats”? He specifically mentioned the – and I’ll just go bak up the thread for the exact line – ” Homosexual law reform bill”. As in 1987. That’s the one that made it legal for two people of the same gender, aged above 16, to have sex. We are not talking sodomy in the street at 3PM. Just simply a guy being able to love another guy in the bedroom with the curtains closed.
                      The phrase “thrown down their throats” is, at best, a really humourous piece of stupidity.  You are a really fucking funny bigoted moron.

                    • locus …
                      5 February 2012 at 11:19 pm

                      “a lot of people don’t agree with having homosexuality thrown down their throats”

                      ,,,,another missionary crusader biting off more than he can chew 😉

                    • mac1 …
                      5 February 2012 at 11:28 pm

                      Jassen @ 10.29, how do you equate ‘homosexual law reform’ and
                      having ‘people having homosexuality thrown down their throats’?

                      Again, this outburst of yours tells us more about your own personal position than the statement of James111 that you purport to be defending.

                      Also, there is this interesting aspect to your argument that I often read in the offerings of the right-leaning, and often the young; that is, saying “I am entitled to have an opinion and you can’t say I can’t” whereas the issue is rather you are entitled, as are all, to an opinion, but that opinion should be arrived at through consideration and be subject to being able to be defended or modified if the force of another’s argument says that in all reason you are at least partially wrong.

                      Which is why we take the trouble to debate………….

                      Holding an opinion that you know to be wrong is intellectually dishonest. If it took place where the opinion known to be wrong but still maintained is one of prejudice, then we call that bigotry. That is what your comment at 10.29 smacked of.

                  • Mehere …
                    6 February 2012 at 2:40 am

                    As a self-proclained RWNJ who wears the badge of dishonour proudly, I must agree with you McFlock that in this instance, james11 is a complete and utter FUCKTARD.

                    The government has no business whatsoever in the private lives of consenting adults. I’m happy to concede that there are some areas where I believe you loony lefties have got things absolutely right…

                    1. Homosexual law reform
                    2. Prostituiton decriminalisation
                    3. Civil Unions for same-sex couples
                    4. The anti-smacking legislation

                    That said, I’d like to see Civil Unions be extended to full marriage rights for same-sex couples. And our drug laws are desperately in need of some liberalisation.

                    It’s not all black and white on this side of the fence.

            • Bored 1.1.1.1.1.2
              5 February 2012 at 4:29 pm

              Chris, you sound like a whole lot of other fuckwits to me, too rhino hided and cretinous to understand that some groups will stand up for what they see as right. Just as Helen fealt the opprobrium, just as Don copped it so did Key at Waitangi. Why should he be immune?

              • chris73 …
                5 February 2012 at 4:35 pm

                I didn’t say he should be immune I said he should do what HC did and ignore the dole-bludging losers until they learn to behave themselves

                Thier actions do nothing to advance the cause and instead bring disrespect to the vast majority of maori who arn’t associated with these fuck-heads

                • Hateatea …
                  5 February 2012 at 4:40 pm

                  And you know that all the people who are protesting are in receipt of some sort of benefit exactly how?

                  You are undoubtedly a racist, bigoted boor.

                  BTW Does your dole bludging loser tag also encompass widows, invalids and national superannuitants? Just so I know where to place myself in your litany of hate 

                  • chris73 …
                    5 February 2012 at 6:31 pm

                    And you know that all the people who are protesting are in receipt of some sort of benefit exactly how?

                    – True I probably should have said govt handout bludgers

                    You are undoubtedly a racist, bigoted boor.

                    – Racist, no but probably a little culturist in that some cultures, especially in their attitudes, are lesser then other cultures
                    ie While the middle east culture has many admirable qualities the way they view certain things (religious freedom, women etc etc) means that, in my view, their culture is not as advanced as our western, demoratic culture and as such I’d prefer (if given the choice) to have a beer with someone from a similar background to myself then someone who thinks that stoning a women to death because she got raped is a good idea

                    BTW Does your dole bludging loser tag also encompass widows, invalids and national superannuitants? Just so I know where to place myself in your litany of hate

                    – Depends, are they making damn fools of themselves protesting?

                • Bored …
                  5 February 2012 at 4:46 pm

                  Dole bludgers now? You truly are a fuckwit and a troll Chris.

                  And you know fuck all about how the rest of Maori feel (neither do I for that matter, I am just not so fucking arrogant and stupid as to make claims for them).

                  • Hateatea …
                    5 February 2012 at 4:58 pm

                    How could he know? I am Maori and I only know how I feel. I listen to the opinions of my whanau and friends. Some agree with me, some don’t. We are like the rest of the population, individuals, who bring our own life experiences to everything we see and hear. That is human nature.

                    Now chris73 on the other hand knows how we support ourselves, our parentage, our social status, our education etc etc by whether we worship at the feet of JKey or not.

                    One eyed idiot! 

                    • james111 …
                      5 February 2012 at 5:51 pm

                      Move out of the greivance cycle mate or you will never move on. Or as Winston would say get off the gravy train. That is why all the Maoris who go to Aussie do so well they leave all of that crap behind them.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 February 2012 at 6:38 pm

                      get a brain, James

                    • Jassen …
                      5 February 2012 at 9:48 pm

                      Why …… he is right!

                    • McFlock …
                      5 February 2012 at 10:18 pm

                      Oh, so now you’re back Jassen. From outer space. Just turn aroud now……….. sorry,  mind drifted.
                           
                      Does the priviledge of your attention mean you’ve read the stats about poor children dying that you asked for? Or was tthat just the blog version of a pump&dump?

                    • Bored …
                      6 February 2012 at 8:18 pm

                      Move out of the greivance cycle mate

                      Couple of things Jimmy Fuckwit…..
                      1. Who mentioned greivance cycle? Feeling a little in the gun perhaps, focused on a little for not being able to work out whats being talked about? A bit too thick perhaps?
                      2. I doubt they are your “mates”.

                  • travellerev …
                    5 February 2012 at 5:49 pm

                    Bored,

                    If my facebook and real world friends are anything to go by than he is not a well liked man and that is saying it politely.

                • fender …
                  5 February 2012 at 5:04 pm

                  Your usual sub-par comments have been exceded today chris73, now we know with certainty you are a racist bigot and far more deserving of your “fuck head” label.
                  It’s a wonder you havn’t suggested the protesters were gunned down like Arab protesters yet, no doubt that will be your next comment.
                  Get your passport up to date, we don’t need your type in NZ.

                  • Jassen …
                    5 February 2012 at 9:51 pm

                    What … the hard working type with an opinion? Yeh God forbid we have any of those left in this place.

            • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1.3
              5 February 2012 at 4:29 pm

              They should have just remained quiet while the grownups spoke, then?

              • chris73 …
                5 February 2012 at 4:37 pm

                Act like spolied little show offs and you should get treated like a spoiled show off

                • McFlock …
                  5 February 2012 at 4:52 pm

                  So what avenue do they have to express their grievances, should they have any?

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    5 February 2012 at 5:00 pm

                    The warning is the new Greek example, where young activists are unhappy with their President.

                    A group of between 30 and 50 youngsters attacked the house of President Karolos Papoulias on Saturday evening.

                    The result of the attack was some minor damage to the entrance of the house at Asklipiou Street in central Athens and to the car that Papoulias uses.

                    The hooded youngsters, who arrived by motorbike and on foot just after 8 p.m, hurled a Molotov cocktail, rocks and paint at the house but stopped short of attacking the two guards at the President’s house.

                    Papoulias was inside at the time of the attack.

                    http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_04/02/2012_426098

                    How much longer do the 0.1% think they can continue to get away?

                    • Jassen …
                      5 February 2012 at 9:52 pm

                      And you condone this? Is this how you work?

                    • mac1 …
                      5 February 2012 at 10:19 pm

                      Jassen, @ 9.52 p.m. Pointing out possible corollaries to lines of action does not at all mean agreement with the corollaries. The tenor of your two questions accuses CV of agreement when you have no call to do this.

                      What CV has said is that at some stage certain actions will provoke in turn reactions of a certain nature, and gives a warning that this may eventuate using the example of happenings in Greece.

                      Such observations are really how we learn, after all.

                      I would argue that this is advice to the 0.1% to change their ways, not a carte blanche for masked youth to biff molotov cocktails et al.

                      I certainly would not answer your questions in any way conducive to honest discussion if you came the raw prawn as you did with CV, if that is the way it seems you work.

                    • Jassen …
                      5 February 2012 at 10:34 pm

                      What did I miss? When did it become the 0.1%.

                    • mac1 …
                      6 February 2012 at 2:22 pm

                      Jassen at 10.34. “What did I miss?” you ask. A good question. Worthwhile researching. I look forward to your reply as to what you might have missed.
                      An answer that does not involve a further question instead of substantive argument would be appreciated.

                    • Descendant Of Smith …
                      6 February 2012 at 2:29 pm

                      Jassen – you might like to have a little think about how the right works including a member of the Greek government:
                      http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogspot.co.nz/2011/11/nazi-thug-appointed-minister-in-greece.html
                       

                    • Bored …
                      6 February 2012 at 8:23 pm

                      Jeez this column had thrown up another Chris cry baby, Jassen. Chris is illogical and decidely bigoted, Jassen trumps this by being innumerate as well. I hope (though doubt) Jassen is part of the 1%, having him anywhere near the rest of us 99%ers is highly undesirable.

                  • chris73 …
                    5 February 2012 at 6:22 pm

                    Exercising their democratic right or via the avenue of peaceful protest to name a couple of options

                    Do you think they achieve anything useful with their melodramatic antics?

                    • McFlock …
                      5 February 2012 at 6:29 pm

                      Well, they expressed their dissatisfaction in a way that was communicated in the MSM, and Key didn’t get a nice peaceful photo-op to pretend that everyone was his friend.
                       
                      Two minor victories for the protestors, I’d say.

                    • JonL …
                      5 February 2012 at 7:57 pm

                      “Exercising their democratic right or via the avenue of peaceful protest to name a couple of options”

                      Which is, oh so effective! Nice peaceful protests are very effectively ignored by most politicians.

                      – When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty – a bit more feather ruffling is more than overdue.

                    • RedLogix …
                      5 February 2012 at 8:04 pm

                      Yes.. and we saw how the establishment responded to the peaceful Occupy protestors. Didn’t we?

            • M 1.1.1.1.1.4
              5 February 2012 at 9:24 pm

              ‘They’re just like kids really…just want to make a loud noise, arn’t interested in listening and just want to be the center of attention. Throw in some TV cameras and I suppose its no surprise they go over the top.’

              Describes Keystone perfectly.

  2. fender 2
    5 February 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Great, now he just needs to be chased from NZ, along with his motley crue caucus and lap dogs.

  3. McFlock 3
    5 February 2012 at 3:47 pm

    lolz – just saw this herald sub-editor’s little joke:
    ”
     
    Hot air rushes out
    The mood turned to calm after the Prime Minister’s exit,”…
     
     

    • James Henderson 3.1
      5 February 2012 at 4:48 pm

      the other ‘joke’ is in the same article, the Herald referring to Rahui Katene as an MP – amateurs.

    • QoT 3.2
      5 February 2012 at 5:01 pm

      I wonder if Stuff thought this hilarious litle comment was a joke too?

      Many of the protesters are armed with banners and flags.

      Brown people! With flags! Oh gods, they’ve been listening to Eddie Izzard!

      • McFlock 3.2.1
        5 February 2012 at 5:49 pm

        ACTUALLY it’s all a big misunderstanding. The “protestors” were offering Key a slice of cake, his protection detail thought they said “death” so got him out of there…

        • mickysavage 3.2.1.1
          5 February 2012 at 6:21 pm

          What is really funning is that Key was “relaxed about it all” and tried to blame it on internal political tensions from within Maori. It is all Sharples fault apparently. Key is that well programmed to run lines he must be a borg.

          • Hami Shearlie 3.2.1.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 10:34 pm

            He may well be a borg – maybe Steven Joyce will assimilate him one of these days! I much prefer Flula Borg on youtube instead!!!

      • Populuxe1 3.2.2
        5 February 2012 at 6:51 pm

        It’s a technically correct usage. According to most dictionaries “arms” in the sense of weapons derives from the fact they are carried in the arms and so armed in the sense of purposefully carrying an object predates any association with weapons.

        • QoT 3.2.2.1
          5 February 2012 at 6:54 pm

          Yes, Populuxe, I’m totally sure that the subeditors at Stuff.co.nz were just concerned with etymological accuracy, and are completely ignorant of any other connotations which that wording might have. *facepalm*

          • McFlock 3.2.2.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 7:00 pm

             
            Yes, Populuxe, I’m totally sure that the cheapest spellcheck software they could find at Stuff.co.nz
            FIFY
             

          • Populuxe1 3.2.2.1.2
            5 February 2012 at 7:07 pm

            Beautiful Mind much? Yes, subs are usually pretty ignorant of the subtleties of language – “armed” was probably just the first word that occurred to the reporter. And people who obsess over supposed coded prejudice in every utterance are themselves speaking from a position of epistemic academic elitist privilege and would probably be more usefully spending their time protesting real injustices where more than people’s feelings are getting hurt.
             

            • QoT 3.2.2.1.2.1
              5 February 2012 at 7:17 pm

              A few points:

              1. It’s hardly rocket science to understand that “armed” is a word most commonly used to describe a person carrying offensive weapons.

              2. Spoiler: Language has meaning.

              3. Double spoiler: using aggressive/martial language to refer to indigenous people protesting might just play into a set of beliefs which allows comfy white people to ignore “real injustices”

              4. Denigrating an awareness of language as being about “people’s feelings being hurt” is a little 101. Ditto characterizing my statement as “obsessing”.

              Prescription: do some social justice remedial reading and try again later when you’re not seriously trying to argue against basic linguistic and social phenomena.

              • Populuxe1 …
                5 February 2012 at 8:00 pm

                1. Are they not politically armed with symbols to defend their point of view? Are the not armed with the strength of their convictions.?
                2. Spoiler: Language also has cliches, figures of speech, and rote expressions that have completely lost their original meanings through the evolution of language usage. I expect you fossick around in etymological dictionaries for old Saxon and Latin derivations to be sensitive about.
                3. Double spoiler: The protesters were behaving (quite rightly) in an aggressive way, so that doesn’t hold water.
                4. You are obsessed with hidden slights in language use – it’s one of your pet topics, so don’t give me that nonsense. I was simply calling a spade a spade – which, before you leap, has nothing to do with black people and in fact refers to gardening implements, originating in Erasmus’ mistranslating of Plutarch.
                Prescription: get a life.

            • Vicky32 3.2.2.1.2.2
              6 February 2012 at 7:33 am

              And people who obsess over supposed coded prejudice in every utterance are themselves speaking from a position of epistemic academic elitist privilege and would probably be more usefully spending their time protesting real injustices where more than people’s feelings are getting hurt.

              Seconded! 🙂

        • Colonial Viper 3.2.2.2
          5 February 2012 at 6:54 pm

          Also worth remembering that in addition to carrying their weapons, every army of antiquity also carried banners and flags.

    • Bored 4.1
      5 February 2012 at 4:33 pm

      At my water cooler the comments will be anti Hone and anti Maori….I will have to mount a spirited rearguard on behalf of Hone. Time for pakeha to raise their voices alongside Mana.

      • travellerev 4.1.1
        5 February 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Absolutely. Why most Pakeha still identify with the 1% is beyond me.

        • Graeme 4.1.1.1
          5 February 2012 at 5:06 pm

          All New Zealanders *are* the 1% globally. I suggest you sell everything you own and donate it, along with 90% of your income, to a third world country.

          If you’re not going to do that you should probably stop being a naive hypocrite rabbiting on about the “1%” to which you are a member. Or are you just going to keep pretending to draw an arbitrary line somewhere that doesn’t include you and calling them the 1% and you the 99%?

          Speaking of which, given the tiny handful of deadbeats that turned out to those “Occupy” protests I suspect you should really be talking about the 0.0000099% anyway.

          M’kay?

          • Muzza 4.1.1.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 5:46 pm

            There are other ways. It’s possible to be understanding and in fact active to highlight and support those in THIS country who are having the shit kicked out of them. Your Africa comment while , I hear it is not relevant. It’s about standing up for our country regardless of your ethnic make up or your paycheck. We are all in this together, and by that I mean those who give a fuck. Those who don’t are involved too, they just don’t know it yet!

      • Jassen 4.1.2
        5 February 2012 at 9:58 pm

        Give me a break. You pretend that the majority of people in this country are in your camp. Get a grip on life please. You lot are the minority.

        • locus 4.1.2.1
          5 February 2012 at 10:20 pm

          “You lot are the minority”?
          Who is “you lot”?
          Aren’t all political groups in NZ minorities?
          In a healthy democracy all minorities have the opportunity to express their views, and the largest minority doesn’t have any mandate to remove other minorities’ rights. And the protests at Waitangi are clearly about threats to minority rights.

  5. Pete George 5
    5 February 2012 at 3:54 pm

    A victory for who?

    Waitangi chair threatens end to powhiri after protest

    The new chairman of the Waitangi marae is threatening to end Waitangi Day welcomes for politicians, unless protesters can learn to behave.

    Rihari Dargaville, who took on the chairman’s job at the marae just two months ago, says he’s angry and disappointed that protesters shouted down the Prime Minister, and wrecked the powhiri for the Government.

    Mr Dargaville says he knew feelings were running high among Mana supporters, but took the word of party leaders that they would keep protest under control.

    He says instead the protesters abused marae protocol by insulting and drowning out manuhiri speakers, and the Maori wardens trying to keep order were no match for them.

    There must be some short Labour memories if this is seen as Maori versus National.

  6. Tombstone 6
    5 February 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Looks like the honeymoon is well and truly over for John Key and now we’ll start seeing just how truly piss weak he really is in the face of adversity. The next three years will simply see assets flogged off, benes bashed and workers rights watered down even further. The fat cats will continue to do well and I suspect the rest of us will be left wondering when the so-called ‘brighter future’ will actually start kicking in? I suspect it kicked in a while back for the money men who got those nice big tax cuts but how that made life better for the rest of us I’m fucked if I know? Slippery John may at long last be on a slippery slope and not before time either.

    • SHG 6.1
      5 February 2012 at 8:38 pm

      Looks like the honeymoon is well and truly over for John Key

      This couldn’t have gone better for Key if Crosby Textor had scripted it and hired Maori actors to confront him. He gets to act aggrieved and gets to portray the Mana rentacrowd as immature bullies who don’t deserve respect or attention.

  7. ianmac 7
    5 February 2012 at 3:56 pm

    During the last Election the time and place for John Key’s appearances were carefully concealed/managed. Otherwise there might have been more “wasted” opportunities.
    It would be more credible when a bigger chunk of NZers voice their concerns.

  8. shorts 8
    5 February 2012 at 4:06 pm

    I can’t help but think Key went to Waitangi for exactly this sort of response, plays well to a certain segment of NZ

    for surely they didn’t expect some sort of mass love in

    personally I think its great that people get vocal (as long at they are peaceful) at Waitangi, that is democracy

    • seeker 8.1
      5 February 2012 at 4:59 pm

      @ shorts
      “plays well to a certain segment of NZ”

      Certainly ‘plays well’ to the likes of Chris73 @ $.07pm and 4.35pm who can dust off his ‘hate filled poorly reasoned rhetoric’ and wheel it out on full blast. Disgusting and sickening to read. Will try and avoid his comments in future – just like I try to avoid dog’s mess in the street.

      Sorry Chris but you are really offensive in your remarks today, and I hope this analogy in my comment helps you to take a long hard look at yourself and clean up the mess that is apparently festering inside your brain!

  9. deemac 9
    5 February 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Key will be quite happy as long as the rebels content themselves with shouting and jostling – it actually makes him look a bit statesmanlike. Of course the people they should be calling to account are Sharples and Turia but that would require a bit more thought and a bit less hot air.

    • Nate 9.1
      5 February 2012 at 5:15 pm

      There were comments in the video aimed at the Maori Party… calls of shame/etc… one wonders if they hothoofed it at the same time as the arses they are kissing… or if they stuck it out…

  10. Treetop 10
    5 February 2012 at 4:13 pm

    When the Government are not listening to the people (70 % opposed to asset sales), what do the government think is going to happen?

    Maori and non Maori all must stand together this Waitangi Day and vehemently oppose asset sales.

    • Graeme 10.1
      5 February 2012 at 5:18 pm

      So you think the Government should only do popular stuff?

      Strong leaders do what’s right, not what’s popular. New Zealand is living outside its means. As with any organisation or individual who is asset rich but cash poor, the logical and obvious answer is to sell down the asset portfolio a little.

      Anything else would be irresponsible (even if it was popular with those that don’t know any better).

    • james111 10.2
      5 February 2012 at 5:54 pm

      85% opposed Homosexual Law reform, same for Anti Smacking, same for Privy council ohhh you have short memories Treetop. Guess that is why Labour isnt in anymore

      • Hateatea 10.2.1
        5 February 2012 at 6:14 pm

        Where do you get your statistics, James111? A link would be good.

      • ianmac 10.2.2
        5 February 2012 at 6:49 pm

        Yes James. Where are your stats? By putting your two “examples” together I can guess at your motivation. Pray my son. Pray for forgiveness.

        • Vicky32 10.2.2.1
          6 February 2012 at 7:49 am

          Pray my son. Pray for forgiveness.

          Spiteful. Immature. Once I would have said it wasn’t worthy of you, that was when I had some respect for you… 🙁 (I am not saying I agree with him, just that attacks like that reflect worse on you than they do on him.)

  11. muzza 11
    5 February 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Key says he was not scared – This, IMO was the expected response to what they knew was going happen in Waitangi.

    In some eyes it will give JK the higher ground, and because of the abuse, will give those same people the ammo to pick at Maori once more…

    What this adds up to is more noise to deflect away from the real issues once more…

    Contrived or staged I suspect!

    • Bored 11.1
      5 February 2012 at 4:37 pm

      The shaved headed security guys were the stars of the Jonsters show, their role looked carefully crafted and staged…look vigilant and conerned, ready to strike back at those naughty darkies. They have never been so obvious, usually they are quietly out of sight. yes, a set up for the camera from the master of photo op imagery.

      • Anne 11.1.1
        5 February 2012 at 5:21 pm

        I don’t think it was a set-up Bored. They would have received information that a major protest against J Key was planned. They would have been primed in advance to be even more vigilant than normal. Why do the DPS shave their heads anyway? Is it part of the uniform? Or is it to do with those plastic whirly-gig thingies they always have sticking out of their ears?

        • RedLogix 11.1.1.1
          5 February 2012 at 6:00 pm

          Yes… that shaved head thing is meant to be part of the ‘no-neck thug’ image they are trying to project. It’s the sort of thing you’d expect from a bunch of pub bouncers on a rough night… but from something so closely associated with the PM’s office?

          Quite disturbing in it’s own right.

          • chris73 11.1.1.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 6:37 pm

            Hey if the image alone is enough to stop trouble or at least make someone think twice then isn’t that good thing?

          • Anne 11.1.1.1.2
            5 February 2012 at 6:50 pm

            What’s more they look like pub bouncers only in smart suits. Ahhh, I’ve got it. It’s the Armani look-alike suits they like. Makes them feel important and superior? Note: there is the odd goatee beard thrown in for good measure. That’s the ‘diversity’ image they are also trying to project? Ya gotta have a shaved head or a goatee boys. That’s ya choice.

          • Hami Shearlie 11.1.1.1.3
            5 February 2012 at 10:40 pm

            Men with bullet- shaped heads going down to very thick necks should never shave them – they look like filled condoms!!!! LOL

        • Blue 11.1.1.2
          6 February 2012 at 5:48 pm

          “Why do the DPS shave their heads anyway?” I imagine Anne, its because they are not dirty smelly hippies.

  12. Hateatea 12
    5 February 2012 at 4:26 pm

    It was entirely predictable that his reception would be hostile. Waitangi IS the appropriate venue for peoples’ dissatisfaction with the actions of the Crown to be articulated as that is the first place Te Tiriti was signed. It is symptomatic of JKey’s belief in his own importance that he didn’t just wait out the shouting and dissent but, instead, turned tail and ran.

    If the diplomatic protection squad cannot keep him safe from unarmed citizens of this country in open spaces, we have huge problems. It seems to me that he will use today as an excuse to further distance himself from us lest we disturb hi picture of himself as a powerful and wise leader.

    • Bored 12.1
      5 February 2012 at 4:40 pm

      Its easy to stay safe: you dont threaten people with far reaching harm. The protesters expressed their fears so forcefully because they themselves are aggrieved and threatenned.

  13. huntleigh 13
    5 February 2012 at 4:31 pm

    It’s high time these trouble makers were made an exhibit for all of NZ and the world to see, redicule and despise and remove.
    Waitangi day is a day for national unity and our new Gov General has set on this day a fanatstic eaxmple and clear message of what he and I should say 90% of New Zealanders wish for their nation.
    Long live our heritage which must be protected nevr mind the cost especially to a beligerant few

    • Colonial Viper 13.1
      5 February 2012 at 5:06 pm

      It’s high time these trouble makers were made an exhibit for all of NZ and the world to see, redicule and despise and remove

      I agree, the world needs to realise what an insincere trouble making ass John Key is.

      Long live our heritage which must be protected nevr mind the cost especially to a beligerant few

      I agree. John Key removing Treaty of Waitangi protections from SOEs undermines the heritage and history of our great nation. That man must go.

    • seeker 13.2
      5 February 2012 at 5:10 pm

      huntleigh -how can we have national unity when this devious government decides to sell New Zealand’s important publically owned life saving assets for no clear reason and against the wishes of 65-70% of us?

      It is a devisive and amoral action by Key and his government -certainly not unifying. It is they and their highjacking of our resources who are the trouble makers and who are attacking their own people.

      Do take your rose coloured glasses off huntleigh and get it right.

      • Jassen 13.2.1
        5 February 2012 at 10:15 pm

        So far in this thread alone, which is completely biased to one side of the political spectrum, I do not see your 65-70% represented. As per earlier posts, could you please provide links to your stats.

        Do you not see other peoples views at all?

        • RedLogix 13.2.1.1
          6 February 2012 at 9:36 am

          Going by a comment thread replying to Fran O’Sullivan column in Saturday’s Herald, at least 85% were strongly opposed. That lines up with several other online polls I’ve seen. And the comment’s I’ve been hearing in the semi-rural community I live in. Many of them much less polite than anything I’ve said.

          So far I’ve not seen a proper poll on the topic, and unless you can point us to one… it’s what we have to go on.

    • Mutante 13.3
      5 February 2012 at 6:28 pm

      So how do you propose to make an “exhibit” of these people?

  14. Graeme 14
    5 February 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Those clowns didn’t just disrespect the Prime Minister of New Zealand, they disrespected Maori custom and culture as well, yelling and drowning out the powhiri and other marae protocols.

    The vast bulk of people present during and afterwards were totally disgusted with how it went down, even those that wouldn’t support Key or National in a hundred years.

    Kind of ironic that a party named “Mana” has shown a complete lack of it. A total disgrace.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1
      5 February 2012 at 5:27 pm

      Yes, I agree. This tourist Prime Minister and his gang of Tory wideboys have no place as New Zealand’s first citizens.

      They disrespect not only the office of Prime Minister, but Maori and Tauiwi alike.

      The sooner they are removed from office the better.

      • Jassen 14.1.1
        5 February 2012 at 10:19 pm

        Wow you didn’t exactly spend a lot of time reading that post did you.

        Graeme, I am with you on this one. An absolute embarrassment. That will make news all over the world, and as much as you guys in here thinks the sun shines out of your own arses, the rest of the world won’t even know who you are, what your hatred for John Key stems from, so all they see and think, is my God look at those hooligans, how disrespectful on their own national dat.

    • Inventory2 14.2
      6 February 2012 at 9:44 am

      Quite so Graeme; one wonders what the tupuna of the Te Tii Marae would have made of the disrespect shown to their manuhiri and to them as the spiritual guardians of Te Tii. The powhiri is supposed to be a time of welcome, and even though the korero on the paepae is robust, mana is still accorded. There was a distinct absence of mana yesterday, but an unwelcome presence of Mana.

  15. Blue 15
    5 February 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Key’s already being painted as a martyr in the media. The Herald: “PM rues lost opportunity” and Stuff: “Key: I wasn’t scared.”

    Just another thing for him to be ‘relaxed’ about and spin to his advantage with the redneck vote.

    I sympathise with the protesters, but they really do just throw Key a life preserver right when he is about to drown.

  16. Janice 16
    5 February 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Was the whole thing directed and choreographed by his friend Peter Jackson? Good payoff ah?

  17. johnm 17
    5 February 2012 at 6:21 pm

    Good on the Maori Mana. they are the only real political reaction to the neoliberal smarmy corporatised sell you out privatize rubbish that infects this land. That includes corporate do gooder Shearer as well. New Zealand Politics is no better than a Giant Group Think Wank led by Shonkey. Mana and hopefully the Greens are REAL not ideological fantasists.

  18. chris73 18
    5 February 2012 at 6:34 pm

    Well, they expressed their dissatisfaction in a way that was communicated in the MSM, and Key didn’t get a nice peaceful photo-op to pretend that everyone was his friend.

    Two minor victories for the protestors, I’d say.

    True but won’t it just play into John Keys hands? “That nice John Key trying to help the Maori and gets treated badly by the nasty protestors”

    • McFlock 18.1
      5 February 2012 at 6:44 pm

      Only if Key were trying to help Maori. He ain’t. He’s relaxed about inequality and the Treaty only needs token recognition, if that. 
        
      The real targets were the Maori Party, is my guess. Key was a bonus.

      • chris73 18.1.1
        5 February 2012 at 6:53 pm

        On a completely seperate note I think that a good idea would be to replace/mothball/insert relevent legal phrase the treaty and put in its place a new constitution/bill etc etc that recognises the changed face of NZ, once the treaty settlements are finalised of course

        What do you think

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1
          5 February 2012 at 7:08 pm

          Settlements should never be “finalised”. If someone violates a contract, that doesn’t expire.
           
          We definitely need a retrenched constitution in addition to the Treaty, but that ain’t gonna happen. And I think we have different ideas of what should be in it, anyway 🙂
           
           
           

          • chris73 18.1.1.1.1
            5 February 2012 at 7:15 pm

            As long as they’re full, fair and final I’m all good with it. I think the british screwed over the tribes and as such feel the govt (though it should have been done earlier) should make reparations (thank goodness for doug graham and national ;))

            But once thats done we should place the treaty where it should actually be (the founding document but also an historical novelty) and write a new document for NZ

            But I agree it’ll probably never happen

            • QoT 18.1.1.1.1.1
              5 February 2012 at 7:18 pm

              Define “fair”. Then consider why Maori people might define it radically differently.

            • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1.2
              5 February 2012 at 7:20 pm

              I tend to view the treaty more as a contract that is still in force. It will always be in force, like the magna carta still is. I would want a New Zealand Aotearoa without either.

              • Descendant Of Smith …
                5 February 2012 at 7:50 pm

                and for me
                I would not want a New Zealand Aotearoa without either.
                 

                • McFlock …
                  5 February 2012 at 8:18 pm

                  ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuucccckkkkkk!!!!
                      
                  My bad. I agree with your version more than mine.
                   

  19. Hateatea 19
    5 February 2012 at 6:58 pm

    A friend had a link to this. I have never heard of this person before and have no idea of any vested interest he may or may not have. I just found his perspective of today’s events interesting.
     http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/chris-ford-john-key-waitangi-he-wasnt-chased-media-allege/1273/114045

  20. Hateatea 20
    5 February 2012 at 7:01 pm

    ” I think that a good idea would be to replace/mothball/insert relevent legal phrase the treaty and put in its place a new constitution/bill etc etc that recognises the changed face of NZ, once the treaty settlements are finalised of course

    Of course you do, anything to minimise the place of tangata whenua in this country 

  21. Santi 21
    5 February 2012 at 7:28 pm

    [Racist crack deleted. RL]

  22. marty mars 22
    5 February 2012 at 8:27 pm

    One correction to the story that is necessary IMO is that key wasn’t chased from Waitangi – he ran, as in – key runs from waitangi

  23. Toosense 23
    5 February 2012 at 9:24 pm

    Looks like rain tomorrow…

  24. Hateatea 24
    5 February 2012 at 10:35 pm

    @ Jassen 10.29
     ‘ I think you will find that a lot of people don’t agree with having homosexuality thrown down their throats and that was his point’

    Given the discussion, you could have chosen better phrasing.

    • Descendant Of Smith 24.1
      5 February 2012 at 11:01 pm

      thrown down their throats

      I didn’t realise the intent was to make homosexuality compulsory – must have missed that one.
       
       

  25. rainman 25
    5 February 2012 at 10:52 pm

    This is incorrect. The threshold for top 1% income is about $50k US per year, or at current rates, about NZ$60k per year. That’s somewhere in decile 9 for the NZ income distribution. It’s true our lower deciles are still better than $1 per day, but we really do have shitty wages in NZ.

    • rainman 25.1
      5 February 2012 at 10:53 pm

      Gak. Replying to Graeme at 4.1.1.1 above but because I had a typo in my email the editor has gone mad…

  26. Vicky32 26
    6 February 2012 at 7:01 am

    Because homophobia is like racism and sexism, albeit applied in different ways.

    What utter sh*te, and the louder you shout and the more you swear, the more I know you know it’s shite. Homophobia is nothing like sexism or racism, and I am sure you really know that. I don’t think homosexuality should be illegal (and that’s not what the guy you’re abusing said either) but I don’t think that homophobia is a real thing – it’s an invented ‘diagnosis’, just a hate term for the self-righteous to throw around. 
    You demean the struggles against racism and sexism by your absurd comparison. Homosexuals have the option of not being in everyone’s face all the time, and then they wouldn’t be “persecuted”.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 26.1
      6 February 2012 at 8:29 am

      Eeeeewww! Fuck you, penning this cowshit: it got into my eyes and the flood of rage hormones that took over my brain will take some deep breaths to alleviate.

      Ah that’s better. Now then, who’s in whose face all the time? What? I guess if you let your imagination crawl into people’s lives like a slimeroach, seeking things to be offended by, and are pitiful enough to imagine that justifies your bigotry, I daresay it’s not the only thing in your face.

    • RedBlooded 26.2
      6 February 2012 at 8:30 am

      Clearly Homophobia does exist and you are a perfect example of it. “Homosexuals have the option of not being in everyone’s face all the time …” what a dumb bigotted comment. So the gays shouldn’t peck their partner on the cheek in public eh, that’d be In Your Face, shouldn’t hold hands on the bus eh, that’d be In Your Face. Do you suggest we stay closetted in the house so we don’t offend your sensibilities. Well fuck off and IN YOUR FACE.

      • Descendant Of Smith 26.2.1
        6 February 2012 at 10:12 am

        As I said to one of my homophobic work colleagues many years ago I trust my sons with any of the gay people I knew before I would trust him with my daughters.

        The paranoia amongst the population (and the religious in particular ) over homosexuality is something I have always found bizarre.

        Most sexual (because in their minds it is always about sex and never about relationships and never about decent humanity) crimes are carried out by heterosexual males, most predatory behavior is carried out by heterosexual males, most rapes are carried out by hetero-sexual males.

        I don’t think I’ve ever debated this issue with anyone who hasn’t immediately jumped to sex as the issue. The holding hands, affection in public are all just indicators that gay people might have sex. Worse than children – anyone who is gay should be not seen as well as not heard.

        When I see anyone who is gay I think of them, as I do with anyone else as people – I struggle with what goes on in people’s heads when they see something that I don’t simply because someone is different to them. I’m always pleased I don’t have their thoughts.

        The right (who do seem to be more and more tied up with ever increasing fundamental religious belief) have a very strong tendency to project their thoughts and behaviours onto other people. You see that in many of the posts here when they accuse the left of various things (xenophobia only being the latest).

        Homophobia also sits well alongside racism in particular – I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who is openly racist who is also not openly homophobic and vice versa.
        Homophobia as a word is a little misleading if taken literally because most people’s dislike of homosexuality is likely not fear based. It is far more likely to be religious based for instance.

        Equally though Vicki it is not a made up disease because it has never been a disease:
        Wikipedia reference:
        Homophobia has never been listed as part of a clinical taxonomy of phobias, neither in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD); homophobia is usually used in a non-clinical sense.
         

        • Vicky32 26.2.1.1
          6 February 2012 at 1:03 pm

           

           

          The paranoia amongst the population (and the religious in particular ) over homosexuality is something I have always found bizarre.

          Paranoia? Further down, you admit (being the first I have ever read, to do so) that it’s not about fear!

          Most sexual crimes are carried out by heterosexual males, most predatory behavior is carried out by heterosexual males, most rapes are carried out by hetero-sexual males.

          Given that 95% of males (at least) are heterosexual, what else would you expect?

          I don’t think I’ve ever debated this issue with anyone who hasn’t immediately jumped to sex as the issue.

          Of course sex is the issue! What else would it be?

          Homophobia also sits well alongside racism in particular – I don’t think I’ve ever met someone who is openly racist who is also not openly homophobic and vice versa.

          I’d go as far as to say that comes into the making stuff up category.

            It is far more likely to be religious based for instance.

          As does this. My dislike of homosexuality far preceded my being ‘religious’, and before you say ‘parental religious influence’, I will point out for the nth time that I was raised by then atheist parents.

          Equally though Vicki it is not a made up disease because it has never been a disease:
          Wikipedia reference:
          Homophobia has never been listed as part of a clinical taxonomy of phobias, neither in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD); homophobia is usually used in a non-clinical sense.

          I am pleased to hear you say that, because most people who argue as you do like to claim that is in infact a disease, and suggest cures that range from psychiatric imprisonment to sterilisation and murder – and no, I am not exaggerating. See the Cluster F bombs aimed at me above, to see the kind of thing I usually hear.
          You can bang on about love, affection, sweet peaceful kind gays to your heart’s content, but all the hatred aimed at me and others by your fellow posters, illustrates the opposite of loving natures! 🙂
           

          • RedBlooded 26.2.1.1.1
            6 February 2012 at 2:03 pm

            VIcky, the F-Bombs aimed are you are because some of us get angry about being told that we should hide from the public so that your “dislike of homosexuality” doesn’t have to be confronted. Treat us with the same respect you treat all other citizens and we may learn to respect your opinion. Tell me I am not good enough to walk side by side in society as an equal and yeah I will react. Your bigotry is offensive, and you will receive back what you give.

            • Vicky32 26.2.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2012 at 5:46 pm

              Tell me I am not good enough to walk side by side in society as an equal and yeah I will react. Your bigotry is offensive, and you will receive back what you give.

              Of course you can walk in society as you wish. You and any other gay man can do whatever turns you on, with whomever, in the privacy of your (or his) home. Just don’t expect me to consider that you’re better than a straight person. If you want to be equal, you can’t claim superiority, that doesn’t compute.
              Before you tell me that you don’t personally claim superiority, I have to say that other gay activists have and do.
              What really bothers me is gay people claiming that “homophobia” (a made-up term and a made-up thing) is as horrible, evil and dangerous as racism or sexism. A woman can’t hide her sex, a black person can’t hide his/her colour and neither should they have to! A gay man can hide his activities/tastes, but many don’t want to be as discreet as the overwhelming majority of straights are – I have never come across a sane straight person who would write detailed eye-popping descriptions of her/his favourite bedroom activities on a message board – but gay men do! (In the instance I am thinking of, the guy was censured by the mods but only after I, and several others complained – on the grounds that children frequented that board.) Yes, I would have complained if he’d been a straight guy being equally graphic about vaginas and not anuses.
              This is my last word on the subject. To use an Americanism, grow a pair. I’m much more concerned about oppression being suffered by people who can’t prevent or hide what it is that makes them ‘oppressed’ – people with disabilities for instance…

              • McFlock …
                7 February 2012 at 5:59 pm

                I have never come across a sane straight person who would write detailed eye-popping descriptions of her/his favourite bedroom activities on a message board […]

                Oh. My. God. You are being serious.
                  

                • Vicky32 …
                  7 February 2012 at 6:09 pm

                  Oh. My. God. You are being serious.

                  Yes. I am not talking about a porn message board (I’ve never even seen one, so I don’t  know what kinds of things might been found on one) but a h2g2, billed as an encyclopaedia! This guy did a mini essay about just why anal intercourse was such fun, going into detail that even his fellow aficionados of such found somewhat graphic. In a thread about something completely unrelated!
                  The dude was seriously off his head. I hope. If he was as sane and normal as he claimed to be, someone ought to have taken him aside and explained about the appropriate place and time for porn.

                  • McFlock …
                    7 February 2012 at 6:20 pm

                    Oh for goodness’ sake, now he might not have actually been “sane”? So what is the point of the anecdote, then?
                      
                    Straight people aren’t “discreet” – we hold hands, hug, kiss, exchange long lingering looks etc in public. But when a gay couple do exactly that, they’re “in your face”.
                     
                    The fact is that we live in a country where simply expressing an attraction for another man can be viewed as instilling such panic in the accused that it mitigates beating someone to death. 
                     
                    Not to mention the depression and similar disorders caused by having to “hide” your true self. Friends of mine have committed suicide, in no small part due to the fact that they couldn’t fully share their lives even with their family. “Grow a pair”? FFS.

                    • Descendant Of Smith …
                      7 February 2012 at 7:18 pm

                      Didn’t realise the definition of insanity was so low.

                      Still being set so low it’s useful to consider that while it’s OK for children to have invisible friends it’s a bit odd for adults – the movie Harvey rings a bell.

                      Woops that would mean anyone who believes in god would be insane. He’s invisible and doesn’t exist except in our imaginations.

                      Many crims would be insane – sorry judge I’m not responsible I posted sexual thoughts and practices on the internet and consequently I must be insane.

                      Your norm Vicky is not other peoples and norm is an ever-changing variance.

                      There’s a point of course at which putting forward points of view to you becomes an exercise in futility – I suspect that point has been reached – no doubt you feel likewise about those who disagree with you.
                       
                       

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    7 February 2012 at 7:04 pm

                    Really? *Sigh* Gee, Vicky, how many times have you been called names and accused of nasty generalisations just because you’re a Christian (something, by the way, you have chosen to be) and a minority of Christians are fundementalist douches? You don’t like it, so love thy neighbour. I can’t believe I have actually stuck up for you on occasions because I believe in fairness, only to have to endure such nastiness back.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  7 February 2012 at 6:27 pm

                  Obviously Vicky has never cracked open an issue of Cosmo

              • Te Reo Putake …
                7 February 2012 at 6:13 pm

                You’re not hiding your own disability very well, Vicky. One thing you can’t hide …

                • Vicky32 …
                  7 February 2012 at 6:23 pm

                  You’re not hiding your own disability very well, Vicky.

                  Seriously. With a comment like that, you’ve just shown that you are truly f*cked in the head. See a shrink while it’s still voluntary.

              • Roy …
                9 February 2012 at 3:56 pm

                So because Vicki knows of one (1) instance of a gay man who wrote graphic stuff on a message board, she is going to condemn all gays?
                And she can’t see anything wrong with her reasoning?
                Wow. Just…wow.

          • Descendant Of Smith 26.2.1.1.2
            6 February 2012 at 2:10 pm

            I used paranoia because it more colloquially the word conveys irrational thought out of all proportion – there might be another more suitable word but I couldn’t think of one.

            In fact the use of paranoia in this context is no different to the use of homophobia – you can’t take a literal medical interpretation.

            The behaviours and language and emotions displayed by those who are anti-homosexual are in my view quite irrational.

            Even more so when it is simply about sex – why should you give a shit about what anyone else gets up to as long as it’s consensual. I personally don’t care whether anyone indulges in group sex, anal sex, gay sex, self-fellatio, masturbation, picks up stray men or women in the pub, etc as long as it’s open and transparent amongst those involved.

            That doesn’t mean I would necessarily do those things myself but it does not behove me to place my values on them.

            The whole issue of sex and sexuality is in my view a simple way in which the far right want to set rules to control the lower class.

            The upper class and well off certainly follow different rules and always had – ah the days when the King’s mistress paraded around court with one breast exposed to denote her mistress status – the behaviour of the royal family in recent times just is a continuation, the lambasting of sole parents is just more of the same.

            My personal experience is quite clearly that those who have been openly homophobic have been also racist and vice versa – I thought quite hard about that before I wrote it and can not think of a single example over the years of someone I know who was quite open in their views.

            I find it ironic that a religious person accuse me of making  shit up. Like god is real!

            The religious comment wasn’t directed at you specifically so your religious or not upbringing has little to do with it.

            The fact is that many religions are opposed to homosexuality and for no good reason apart from someone saying it must be so.

            If you have a sensible reason for being opposed then let us know what it is.

            and here are some thoughts for you on what else it might be other than sex:

            http://www.bidstrup.com/phobia.htm

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 26.2.1.1.3
            6 February 2012 at 2:37 pm

            Vicki32 yep, I don’t care for bigotry – have you the faintest idea how grossly offensive your comments are? I wasn’t exaggerating when I described the flood of rage they inspired.
            Your assumptions about my sexual orientation provide more evidence of your bigotry: you can’t imagine that a straight man might find your remarks repugnant?
            And then you have the effrontery to talk about love.

            Raise the double standard.

          • Hateatea 26.2.1.1.4
            6 February 2012 at 2:51 pm

            ‘Of course sex is the issue! What else would it be?’

            Not all homosexual people are sexually active. Not all heterosexual people are sexually active either. Why should it be a problem if two women or two men hold hands, hug or exchange a ‘peck on the cheek’? Are we going to ban children of the same gender doing this too lest they be ‘seduced’ to same sex relationships while in the school crocodile to the library or the swimming pool?

            I reject your prejudice on behalf of my lesbian sister, my homosexual foster son, my asexual friends and all those of my aquaintance who think that the most healthy thing in the world is a loving, supportive, committed relationship with the person of their choice.

            I am sad that you, and others like you, cannot be open enough to know and see that hate and fear eat us up from the inside out and that loving and being loved unconditionally is healing and liberating 

    • te Reo ki Whakaaro 26.3
      6 February 2012 at 8:46 am

      Well done, Vicky32. That’s easily your stupidest comment ever, not the least because you claim there is no such thing as homophobia, then go on to prove conclusively that it exists.
       
      How does this sentence read to you now that I’ve altered one word?
       
      Christians have the option of not being in everyone’s face all the time, and then they wouldn’t be “persecuted”.
       
      Does that sound like bigotry to you now?
       

      Edit: I thought I’d have a crack at converting The Voice of Reason to te reo today. If I’ve got it wrong, I’d appreciate being corrected.

      • Hateatea 26.3.1
        6 February 2012 at 9:57 am

        Try ‘Te Reo Putake’. The ‘u’ should have a macron, ideally. Thanks TVoR

        • Te Reo Putake 26.3.1.1
          6 February 2012 at 10:14 am

          Tena koe, Hateatea, Te Reo Putake it is. Not sure how to add the macrons, unfortunately.
           
          I’ve been thinking about changing the handle anyway, because ‘The Voice of Reason’ does have a confrontational element to it, which was initially meant to annoy Randian libertarians, but also seems to upset some left posters too. And, as the Jackal pointed out recently, it is also being used by some contributors on other sites, so it’s no longer exclusively mine.

        • Tahi Muna Koroke 26.3.1.2
          6 February 2012 at 11:07 am

          I sense a learning opportunity.

          Please forgive my crap reo.

          OAB

          • Hateatea 26.3.1.2.1
            6 February 2012 at 12:20 pm

            You are forgiven OAB – anonymous is a difficult one but I think something like ‘huna’ = conceal might fit so Kotahi Tane / Tangata Huna.

            He mea miharo rawa atu. Ko te reo rangatira te tino toa.
            A truly wonderful thing. Te Reo Maori (the language of leaders) is the winner.

            BTW A good source for word from English to Maori is to be found at
            http://www.learningmedia.co.nz  The Ngata online dictionary gives examples so that you can see which usage best fits. Of course, buying one means that you have it all the time 🙂

            Kia kaha ki te whai mai te mohiotanga 

    • Zorr 26.4
      6 February 2012 at 8:53 am

      What? Like “misogynist”, so beloved by feminists everywhere to demean every male that doesn’t agree with their exact position?

    • McFlock 26.5
      6 February 2012 at 2:33 pm

      Vicky32,
      it’s pretty much all been said. With one exception:
      why do you homophobes keep using phrases like “rammed down our throats” or “being in everyone’s face”? Your freudian imagery is getting to be a pain in the arse…

      • Hateatea 26.5.1
        6 February 2012 at 3:29 pm

        ‘ Your freudian imagery is getting to be a pain in the arse…’

        <b>LOL</b>

        I don’t usually use ‘text speak’ but just this once!! 

    • Bored 26.6
      6 February 2012 at 8:33 pm

      WTF Vicky? I can vouch for the reality of homophobia, and how it gets to people. As one of your quoted (below) 95% hetero males I have experienced homophobia aimed directly at some mates of mine who happen to be gay. I was assumed on this occasion to be gay as well and copped the full force of ignorant homophobia. Its real, get real Vicky. Stop spouting bullshit.

      And dont tell me they push their sexuality in our faces / down our throat. That too is complete bollocks.

      • Populuxe1 26.6.1
        6 February 2012 at 8:41 pm

        Yup, homo here putting up his hand. It’s real. Most of the time it’s just thoughtlessly annoying comments and assumptions, though if I was more flouncy, I expect the bullying would be more pronounced. Unlike many, I’ve never actually been gay bashed though. Homophobia ranges from annoying stereotypes in the media and teenagers inappropriately using the word “gay” to apply to anything they don’t like, through to some horrific abuses, miscarriages of judicial process, overt hostility from some heterosexual men who seem to think we’re out to convert them, refusal of employment, lack of equal rights and so on. Just because some of us don’t consent to being victims and staing in our place, doesn’t mean homophobia isn’t real.
        Hehe Bored, “bollocks” hehe

      • RedLogix 26.6.2
        6 February 2012 at 8:46 pm

        That’s very real Bored. Back in my early 20’s I flatted with a gay guy (just the two of us) and unless he’d told me I’d have had very little reason to guess.

        Most gays go about their sex-lives in a pretty low key fashion; it’s only a minority who do the blatantly camp or “Gay Pride” parade kind of thing that could be considered “in your face”. And even then it’s nothing compared to how us hetros are constantly, overwhelmingly in theirs.

  27. Roy 27
    9 February 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Vicky’s posts in this thread put me in mind of a great bumper sticker I saw in the US:

    “I don’t mind straight people as long as they act gay in public”

    Made me laugh…and as a straight person, it made me think. Does it make you think, Vicky?

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