Larger classes only for the peasants

34 comments on “Larger classes only for the peasants ”

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1. Psycho Milt 1

   30 May 2012 at 7:42 am

   So, half the Cabinet sends their kids to private schools.

   Only half? Does the other half not have kids, or are they some kind of closet “cultural Marxists?”
   • Carol 1.1

     30 May 2012 at 8:08 am

     From the linked article:

     A Herald survey of ministers found that at least seven of the sixteen Cabinet ministers with school-aged children sent all or some of their children to private schools. Four ministers refused to say where their children attended or could not respond, and five ministers said they had enrolled their kids in state schools.

     So, only 5 “closet Marxists”? Not Gerry Brownlee or Paula Benefit, surely?
     And Parata a semi-Marxists sent her kids to a mix of schools including state and Maori immersion.

     Name and shame?

     John Key
     State school (Burnside High School)
     Children: Private

     Bill English
     Private (St Patrick’s Silverstream)
     Children: Private

     Gerry Brownlee
     Private (St Bede’s College in Christchurch)
     Children: State

     Steven Joyce
     State (Spotswood College in New Plymouth and Kapiti College)
     Children: Too young

     Judith Collins
     State (Matamata College)
     Children: Would not say

     Tony Ryall
     State (would not say)
     Children: Would not say

     Hekia Parata
     State (Ngata Memorial College)
     Children: State

     Chris Finlayson
     Private (St Patrick’s Silverstream)
     No children

     Paula Bennett
     State (Taupor-nui-a-tai College)
     Children: State

     David Carter
     Private (St Bede’s College in Christchurch)
     Children: Private

     Murray McCully
     State (Dargaville High School)
     Children: Private

     Anne Tolley
     Colenso High, Napier
     Children: Both State and Private

     Jonathan Coleman
     State school – Auckland Grammar School
     Children: Too young

     Tim Groser
     State (Hutt Valley High School)
     No response

     Phil Heatley
     State (would not say)
     Children: Private

     Kate Wilkinson
     Private (St Margaret’s College)
     No children

     Nathan Guy
     State (Waiopehu College)
     Children: State

     Craig Foss
     State (Naenae College)
     Children: Would not say

     Amy Adams
     State (Rangitoto College)
     Children: Private

     Chris Tremain
     State (Napier Boys High School)
     Children: State
     • Uturn 1.1.1

       30 May 2012 at 8:58 am

       Ahhhh, it warms my heart that a sizeable chunk of Nats will not only sacrifice other’s children on the altar of ideology, but will lead by example and stealthily attack the powerless within their own families. Though there is always the chance they are bludging off the state until a legislative change and will then switch. Looks like one Minister even wins the award for chosing who will succeed: one child private, one state. A commendably divisive in-home experiment in fuedalism. Good work that Nat!
     • fascist-anti-fascist. 1.1.2

       30 May 2012 at 9:34 pm

       Carol, you show a lack of concern for the safety and privacy of these innocent kids by identifying their schools in a ‘name and shame’ list. They didn’t endorse their parents’ politics, so why do you want to victimize them? How would you feel if someone used that information to harm some kid who didn’t do anything wrong?

       [The word “facist” is probably one of our spam triggers, so I suspect every time you comment it will be held in moderation. I suggest a new handle that doesn’t use the word. — r0b]
       • felix 1.1.2.1

         31 May 2012 at 7:24 am

         Put it away mate.

         No-one named any children or their schools. No-one accused any children of anything at all.

         And anyway Carol was simply quoting a major newspaper, which you would know if you had bothered to read the post. Take your translucent sanctimony to The Herald’s site and whinge at them.
         • Teach this 1.1.2.1.1

           31 May 2012 at 5:21 pm

           I guess you don’t have kids, Felix.

           If you did, you might show a little less snappiness to reject the obvious danger that Carol has put them in. It is reasonable to expect that the children have the same name as their parents and – regardless of where she got the information – Carol has helped to identify the children’s schools by listing them here with the names of their parents and schools.

           What danger, you ask? I’d say there are lots of angry people who have lost their jobs because of these people’s parents. The kids, could be bullied by fellow students, or other fanatical Labour supporters or teachers who have been sacked by the recent cuts might even go looking for revenge against them.

           It doesn’t matter if she hasn’t actively accused the children in question of anything; Carol has helped to make them potential targets.
           • Pascal's bookie 1.1.2.1.1.1

             31 May 2012 at 5:49 pm

             So you are saying that Carol, by repeating info that was in the Herald which simply says that the children are in private schools, is somehow identifying those children to people at the unnamed schools?

             Excuse me if I think you are clutching your pearls somewhat au.
           • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1.2

             31 May 2012 at 5:50 pm

             If you did, you might show a little less snappiness to reject the obvious danger that Carol has put them in.

             I thought the list came from the NZ Herald?

             What danger, you ask? I’d say there are lots of angry people who have lost their jobs because of these people’s parents. The kids, could be bullied by fellow students, or other fanatical Labour supporters

             The Right Wing recognise the existence of community, and apparently FEARS IT
             • Carol …

               31 May 2012 at 6:58 pm

               Agreed, CV. And thanks, Felix & PB.

               I guess that the poster with the changing name has also complained as vehemently to the NZ Herald for publishing that info? Or maybe s/he thinks the Standard has a much wider circulation?

               Made the children a target with who? Other children and parents at the private schools? Really?

               If others knew who the children of the above Nats were, they didn’t get any help from me in knowing that. And presumably every time the Nat parent does something unpopular they are making their children a target? – especially when the unpopular actions target less well-off children unfairly.

               I’m sure the above poster, who is so concerned about children being made targets, also complained strongly about the way the education for some children has been made an negative target by the education cuts in the latest budget.

               I’m sure such children will be continuing to suffer disadvantages when the cabinet ministers’ children are continuing to benefit from their privileged education.
     • felix 1.1.3

       31 May 2012 at 7:27 am

       Haha I love the “would not say” responses.

       As if anyone would think, even for a moment, that Judith Collins and Tony Ryall would send their entitled progeny to mingle with the lower classes.
2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

   30 May 2012 at 8:06 am

   Cut the student-teacher ratio, do a backdoor deal to allow/force schools to raise the extra cash from the parents.

   Nek Minnit- the schools are ‘motivated by market forces’
3. insider 3

   30 May 2012 at 8:17 am

   St bedes and st pats are integrated schools not private. Their teachers are paid by the state in line with state ratios, so changes to funding formulas will definitely have an impact. But pointing that out in the story would have meant introducing more than one idea into it and some explanation and research….
   • prism 3.1

     30 May 2012 at 8:26 am

     Thanks for that info insider – if I want to know more details of matters affecting the right wingers I will ask you to give us the better background.
   • Zetetic 3.2

     30 May 2012 at 8:57 am

     When those ministers went there, they were private
4. Carol 4

   30 May 2012 at 8:18 am

   And are all state schools equal? e.g. what about status state schools like Jonathan Coleman’s old school, Auckland Grammar ?

   http://www.ags.school.nz/content/about/what_is_the_grammar_way_philosophy.
   ….especially when they practice streaming.
   http://www.ags.school.nz/content/about/headmasters_articles_speeches.html

   The School started the year with 2489 students and 147 teachers,

   […]
   The Old Boys’ Association, Headmaster’s Council and Foundation Trust work magnificently for the good of the School and add greatly to our facilities and resources.

   I am also appreciative of the generosity of our Grammar families who contribute so well to our various fundraising ventures and in paying the annual school donation. Without this support we simply could not afford to provide the facilities or the educational environment that our boys enjoy at Auckland Grammar School.
   • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1

     30 May 2012 at 9:16 am

     That gives a pupil teacher ratio of 16.9.
     They obviously fund quite a few teachers out of the high fee/donations they charge.
     As well there is full fee paying students which the schools gets to keep a portion, and is normally spent on extra teachers
5. just saying 5

   30 May 2012 at 8:43 am

   I understood Bennett’s kids are adults, and would have been at school at a time when she couldn’t have afforded to send them to private schools.
   It looks like (including a large portion of the the ‘would not say’*) about 80 percent.

   *And where do they get off. This is a legitimate question, they didn’t need to disclose which school thereby potentially affecting the privacy of their kids. This is a potential conflict of interest issue under the circumstances.
   • Zetetic 5.1

     30 May 2012 at 8:58 am

     Yeah, she’s just got the one daughter, who just be in her twenties by now
6. Pete George 6

   30 May 2012 at 9:01 am

   It would be interesting to see a similar survey covering MPs from other parties.
   • Fortran 6.1

     30 May 2012 at 1:49 pm

     PeteGeorge

     Look forward to seeing the other parties schools list.

     David Cunliffe’s son goes to Kings with Key’s son.
     • Anne 6.1.1

       31 May 2012 at 5:51 pm

       David Cunliffe and Labour (or the Greens) are not introducing controversial laws that undermine the state sector schools while ensuring the private/elite schools remain unaffected. Indeed, Shearer is on record saying they will repeal the laws.

       I think you will find that if the whole Nat. caucus was included, some 70 to 80% of their kids went/go (or are enrolled to go) to private schools. And I think you would also find that the state schools the rest went/go to, are in the decile 10 catagory.
   • fabregas4 6.2

     30 May 2012 at 2:44 pm

     Why’s that – other parties worked to decrease class sizes not increase them.
7. Pete 7

   30 May 2012 at 10:07 am

   For the record, these measures are a dumb idea from a morally and intellectual bankrupt government. But it doesn’t really sit easy with me to examine their kids’ lives even in a cursory way like this. It’s not their fault that their parents are no-talent ass-clowns and they still deserve a modicum of privacy. Anyway, given that MPs move frequently back and forth between their constituencies and Wellington, a boarding school might not be such a bad idea for their kids.
   • ianmac 7.1

     30 May 2012 at 10:46 am

     Pete: Like Bill English does living in Southland and spending some of the time in Wellington. It is tough dragging the kids backwards and forwards.
8. Enough is Enough 8

   30 May 2012 at 12:02 pm

   This is the privatisation of our education system in motion.

   If you are a hard working kiwi and want your kids to have the best opportunity available to them, the Nats are ensuring the state cannot provide it. You will have to take a second job, work the weekend or just send them to an under resoursed school where they will battle with 40 other kids for the teachers attention.

   Follow the money. Who is going to profit from this privatisation. Like the prisons, follow the money.

   This illegitimate government is destroying this nation. Can they not see the riots on the streets in London and Europe that will be here in 12 months if they contibue to fight this agressive destructive war against the workers of Aotearoa. You can only push us so far Key
9. grumpy 9

   30 May 2012 at 1:03 pm

   Anyone done the same survey with the MPs from other parties? might be interesting…….
   • fabregas4 9.1

     30 May 2012 at 2:45 pm

     Its not interesting – no other part has worked to increase class sizes – only Key’s National Party.
   • Enough is Enough 9.2

     30 May 2012 at 3:27 pm

     Grumpy you dumb fuck. That is irellevant.

     As I have pointed out above the changes that are being implemented are forcing parents arms to send their kids to private schools. You can’t blame parents from doing that, including opposition MP’s who have kids.

     What you can do is blame the fascist arseholes who are making the changes while confirming they are shit changes by not putting their kids into the system they are creating.
10. irascible 10

    30 May 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Heatley and his sister attended Kamo High School, Whangarei. Strange that he won’t say which state school he attended…. one wonders why.
11. Hulun Phallis 11

    30 May 2012 at 3:38 pm

    [Bunji: banned commentator]
    • Te Reo Putake 11.1

      30 May 2012 at 4:44 pm

      A devastating critique of this Government’s commitment to wealth distribution to the already wealthy, Hulun. Did your lips move when you wrote it?
    • Reagan Cline 11.2

      30 May 2012 at 6:57 pm

      The few parents of my childrens friends who send them to private schools say they see an advantage to them in mixing with the people who go to private schools and send their children.
      Educational factors take second place to social factors in their thinking.

      This tells their children IMO that they are not capable of following their career preference without the support of private school friends and parents. That is a comfort to some, but to others it brings a life-long burden of expectation.

      There can also be a difficulty in the child’s mind because on the one hand their parents say they are individuals with a right to do what they like to be successful and on the other hand that the best way to achieve this is to be part of the private school community.

      Awareness of the social and schooling background of people who could influence career prospects
      becomes important. People can hide their backgrounds to gain advantage.

      The private public separation is very powerful in NZ. The public tradition is associated with the left and private with right. People from both backgrounds work together all the time in NZ and teachers change from one sector to the other, so the separation has a porous boundary.

      I think the ethic of self advancement in the service of others is important, as long as you can earn an adequate living, support dependants and be secure in old age.

      This is where it has gone wrong. Too many people, private and public schooled can not do this, even by their best efforts, leading to fear, despair, suspicion, resentment and hatred.
12. Ed 12

    30 May 2012 at 11:05 pm

    That nice Mr Farrar at Kiwiblog pointed out that from 2002 to 2012 the school population has gone up only 2.5%, while the number of teachers went up by 12.76%

    Whether he is comparing apples and pears (or numbers of heads including part timers with FTE’s, or whether there have been definition changes (including say advisers as teachers in one year and not another), but if true, perhaps we have, un-noticed, had a massive improvement in teacher / student ratios without anyone noticing.

    So where is the spin? Does anyone really know?
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      31 May 2012 at 7:19 pm

      That nice Mr Farrar at Kiwiblog pointed out that from 2002 to 2012 the school population has gone up only 2.5%, while the number of teachers went up by 12.76%

      Surely he meant this as a good thing, right? Right?

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