Nat branch chair calls for “corporal punishment”

Written By: - Date published: 6:27 am, March 21st, 2017 - 38 comments
Categories: bill english, child abuse, child discipline, schools - Tags: ,

A voice from National’s heartland – Bring back corporal punishment in schools – National rep

A return to corporal punishment is the solution for youth crime in the Far North, says a local National Party representative.

The town of Kaikohe is demanding answers after mobs of youngsters took liquor from a bottle store and vandalised a petrol station during the weekend.

The chair of the National Party’s Kaikohe branch, Alan Price, said systems were not in place to deal with growing drug use and young people running riot in his town and others.

“Whilst we need more police, there’s a bigger underlying problem here,” he said.

Mr Price told Morning Report the solution was to put corporal punishment back into schools.

Though the do-gooders would not like it, something needed to be done, he said.

Yeah a systemic failure rooted in neoliberal neglect at many levels can be fixed by whacking kids in school. Or not, good work by RNZ to follow up with – Why corporal punishment doesn’t work

Since corporal punishment was banned in New Zealand in 1987, there have been periodic grumbles that it’s causing moral turpitude in the young.

The latest is from the National Party’s Kaikohe chair Alan Price, who made the claim following incidents of vandalism and theft by groups of young people in the town.

To be honest, there’s little chance of Mr Price’s suggestion going anywhere, with wide and multi-partisan agreement condemning violence against children, but it’s worth setting out, once again, why this idea is so wildly wrong.

Firstly, there’s no evidence that corporal punishment in schools leads to improvements in student behaviour. In fact there’s long-standing research from around the world showing the opposite: that generally behaviour gets worse.

Secondly, the notion that children are human beings with rights is one that’s fairly important and, as signatories to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, is a principle New Zealand has signed up to (under a National government in 1993 even).

But perhaps the biggest barrier to Mr Price’s suggestion is the fact that, even if the law was changed and school supplies catalogues started stocking canes and straps again, there would be very few, if any, teachers who’d be willing to actually do the hitting.

Bill English should have spoken out to dissociate his party from Price’s archaic views. Why hasn’t he?

38 comments on “Nat branch chair calls for “corporal punishment” ”

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  1. The decrypter 1
    21 March 2017 at 7:03 am

    Why hasn’t he spoken out?–Too hard. The too hard basket is overflowing already.

  2. Pete George 2
    21 March 2017 at 7:08 am

    Kaikohe is ‘National heartland’? Who is the MP there?

    Suggesting that inflicting violence on children to teach them not to be violent is nuts, but it was made clear on Newshub that Price was speaking for himself:

    The chair of the Kaikohe National Party, who says he speaks for himself and not the party…

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/03/kaikohe-demolition-kids-caught-on-camera-attacking-petrol-station.html

    Compare that to Labour police spokesperson Stuart Nash:

    “Scalping is associated with American Indians but it was actually started by Europeans.

    “Perhaps someone in jail who isn’t too fond of monsters who destroy little boys[sic] lives by stealing their innocence in the worst way possible could reintroduce Mr Smith to the practise[sic].”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11820250

    Nash did admit he “went too far”.

    Suggesting violence in reaction to issues is still a common problem.

    • Keith 2.1
      21 March 2017 at 7:27 am

      I certainly would not put it beyond the pettiness of National to put the party ahead of the people to one up Winston Peters. National will neglect Northland even more than it did before to punish voters for having the audacity to vote out National. That is and was patently obvious.

      • Pete George 2.1.1
        21 March 2017 at 7:31 am

        Obvious to you perhaps, but that’s as silly a claim as were Price’s suggestions of corporal punishment.

        • Keith 2.1.1.1
          21 March 2017 at 7:49 am

          Peters is pro rail in Northland. Kiwirail, have just closed tbe line north of Whangarei and there is no investment in what is left. Not much intervention by the government now is there to review that, less than none actually and we know they can and do roll out the pork barrel when it suits them. An Aluminium smelter propped up by the taxpayer in heartland National territory ring any bells?

    • McFlock 2.2
      21 March 2017 at 12:12 pm

      lol

      The funny thing is, the nat seems to be much more serious about wanting schools to bash young people than the lab seems to have been about wanting a particular pedophile to be scalped.

    • Cemetery Jones 2.3
      21 March 2017 at 1:34 pm

      The difference is that Stuart Nash said something funny, even if it wasn’t useful in other regards.

  3. Keith 3
    21 March 2017 at 7:18 am

    Isn’t this so unbelievable? Thanks to Mr Prices National Party and their cutbacks and then frozen police budget there was so few police officers to respond to the immediate violence that it succinctly demonstrated that Kaikohe is at times lawless. Yes, the get tough on crime party has yet again been found to be full of shit. Those tax cuts eh?

    But rather than talk about that Mammoth in the room Price diverts attention to legalising assault with a weapon, on children no less to fix their woes.

    Is he simply just your run of the mill National Party idiot or was this a sanctioned diversion from party HQ to draw attention away from the dysfunction of Northlands police?

    And does Alan Price get off on whips?

  4. Psycho Milt 4
    21 March 2017 at 7:50 am

    Bill English should have spoken out to dissociate his party from Price’s archaic views. Why hasn’t he?

    Probably because the guy stated up front he was offering a personal opinion, not speaking on behalf of the National Party. I get why you’d like Bill English to grab that tar baby, but he’d be pretty stupid to fall for it.

  5. AB 5
    21 March 2017 at 8:22 am

    Latest news. ‘Mobs’ of National-voting farmers and business folk in Kaikohe were seen visiting their accountants and demanding ways of reducing their tax liabilities. Nobody said anything about it. It went unreported in the media.

    • Mordecai 5.1
      21 March 2017 at 9:20 am

      Well that’s because legally minimising tax is a legitimate activity.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1
        21 March 2017 at 9:37 am

        No, it’s theft.

        Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean that it’s right.

      • AB 5.1.2
        21 March 2017 at 2:44 pm

        Starving society of the money it needs to run properly and booting in service station doors are just different types of vandalism.
        That the former is in a very narrow sense ‘legal’ in that it observes the letter of the law while often violating its intentions, doesn’t alter the ethical position at all.

  6. Draco T Bastard 6
    21 March 2017 at 8:50 am

    Bill English should have spoken out to dissociate his party from Price’s archaic views. Why hasn’t he?

    Because he probably thinks that corporal should be brought back.

  7. tory 7
    21 March 2017 at 9:01 am

    As Pete George highlighted, Nash (speaking on behalf of Labour) calls for scalping, where is the difference?
    Wait, let me guess, perhaps Nash was only speaking on behalf of himself and not the party? Once again the hypocrisy of the left rises to a new level.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      21 March 2017 at 9:05 am

      Something to do with violence against children, probably.

      Also, Nash wasn’t proposing a policy platform.

      • Mordecai 7.1.1
        21 March 2017 at 9:24 am

        These aren’t children. They are thugs.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.1
          21 March 2017 at 9:33 am

          Young Nats, then.

          I think the Alan Price problem can be solved by printing a copy of Dame Sian Elias’ speech “Blameless Babes” onto plywood then thoroughly rubbing his face in it.

        • McFlock 7.1.1.2
          21 March 2017 at 12:14 pm

          These aren’t children. They are thugs.

          And a homicidal child rapist isn’t?

    • Cinny 7.2
      21 March 2017 at 9:08 am

      The scalping was in reference to a convicted pedo and murderer wanting to wear his toupee because of his own vanity.

      Grasping at straws bringing that into the discussion Tory.

    • joe90 7.3
      21 March 2017 at 10:01 am

      Once again the hypocrisy of the left rises to a new level.

      The whataboutism is strong with this one.

      /

    • Cemetery Jones 7.4
      21 March 2017 at 1:36 pm

      A scalping joke regarding a convicted pedo/killer’s toupee has hilarity on its side of the ledger. Plus I guess I’m pretty immune to outrage culture, so a dark expression of humour is about the only way to reach me. As the immortal bard once said of crime, “toupee, or not toupee, that is the question.”

  8. Cinny 8
    21 March 2017 at 9:15 am

    If a child is beaten for punishment, all that teaches them is if someone does wrong to beat them up. And we wonder why family violence is such a problem. Break the cycle.

    Educate the kids, gosh it sounds like these kids are just bored and desperate for attention. Sadly their actions are horrendous. Icelands solution would hugely benefit these kids.

    We can point the finger and blame, blame, blame all we like, but we need to be helping these kids, that’s what is important.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      21 March 2017 at 9:39 am

      We can point the finger and blame, blame, blame all we like, but we need to be helping these kids, that’s what is important.

      QFT

  9. Gosman 9
    21 March 2017 at 9:32 am

    Is this a guilt by association attack? Be careful doing that because the left will have a lot of avenue for that sort of attack line.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1
      21 March 2017 at 9:43 am

      Something like this really is cultural as it’s lessons passed from person to person and so association is important.

      And the right-wing have far more to answer for:
      Pretty much all authoritarian regimes throughout history have been right-wing.
      All collapses of civilisation have been brought about by the right-wing policy of catering to the rich.

      • Gosman 9.1.1
        21 March 2017 at 9:50 am

        Except you classify any regime that is authoritarian as right-wing so you create a circular argument that is intellectually dishonest.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1
          21 March 2017 at 12:54 pm

          Nope. Although they’re few and far between I’m sure that there are authoritarian leftists – somewhere.

  10. Keith 10
    21 March 2017 at 9:51 am

    All you Nats need to ask why is your pathetic government not providing enough police in Northland? Actually providing any police at all?

    Tough on crime these Nats!

  11. Bill 11
    21 March 2017 at 10:15 am

    Remembering school days and all the bullshit authoritarianism…lot’s I could say, but just on the question of corporal punishment.

    We used to usually get an option of some form of time wasting psychological punishment or ‘the belt’. Near everyone opted for the belt. Not because it was ‘macho’ or any of that bullshit, but because the situation was acknowledged as over, dealt with – gone.

    Physically whacking people is crap. But so are forms of psychological whacking. Which one is worse?

    Open question.

    • Cinny 11.1
      21 March 2017 at 11:17 am

      See now that’s a tricky one. From experience bruises and broken bones heal, but the words stay there and smolder for a long time afterwards.

      Soooo, if kids hear positive and encouraging words, are taught how to deal with emotions, are given opportunities to discover their passion in life. That would create change.

      Some kids just need someone to believe in them to acknowledge them. When all they hear at home is how useless they are, they will believe they are useless and act accordingly.

      • Bill 11.1.1
        21 March 2017 at 11:56 am

        Firstly, there’s no evidence that corporal punishment in schools leads to improvements in student behaviour.

        See. I’d be thinking “modify” is probably more appropriate than “improve”….and then say that’s a good thing indicting that corporal punishment isn’t pernicious. (The claim, from that same part of the post, that behaviour ‘gets worse’ is whose measure of ‘good’ and ‘bad’?)

  12. Tricldrown 12
    21 March 2017 at 10:16 am

    Keith their was a policeman in Northland who was tough on Crime.
    He was a National MP.

  13. Ad 13
    21 March 2017 at 10:34 am

    I’d like to hear from people in Kaikohe.

    I’ve only ever been through there a few times.

    I was impressed that a grandmother spoke out against her rampaging teenager who she identified.

  14. Skeptic 14
    21 March 2017 at 3:27 pm

    I would put Tory and Mr Price in the same category as Christine Rankin and Simon Barnett – hypocrites of the first order. They remind me all too much of the Bash-a-Crim mob – Sensible Sentencing Trust – frothing at the mouth in the mistaken belief that justice equates to vengeance. The reason being that these are the type of people who are first to condemn the supposed upsurge of violence in society, yet they are the same people who habitually promote the use of violence against children and youth. Now where do you think children and youth learn their violence? – well from stupid adults like Tory, Barnett, Rankin and Price of course! A classic case of “as you sow, so shall ye reap.” Well, when you’re dealing with people who have the combine IQ of a two-tooth ewe, I suppose you can’t really expect intelligent reasoning; however, a teeny-tiny bit wouldn’t go amiss – even from this class of dummies.