National – trying to provoke TPP violence?

Written By: - Date published: 7:01 am, January 29th, 2016 - 165 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, activism, john key, law and "order", police - Tags: , , , , , , ,

A couple of days ago Chris Trotter set out an interesting theory:

Let’s Not Lose Our Tempers: If John Key wants a riot outside Sky City – don’t give him one

ON THE FACE OF IT John Key has made a serious tactical blunder. By insisting on hosting the signing of the Trans-pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) in New Zealand, just two days before Waitangi Day, at the country’s most notorious beneficiary of crony capitalism, he would appear to have given his opponents an unparalleled opportunity to rally their forces and reinvigorate their campaign. … Is John Key setting them up?
…
If that is the case, then an angry protest, or, worse, a violent riot, outside the Sky City complex will rebound, almost entirely, to the Government’s advantage. Not only it will reinforce the prejudices of Key’s supporters, but it will also alienate those who are still making up their mind on the TPPA.

It is, therefore, vitally important that any protest against the signing of the TPPA be absolutely non-violent. … If John Key wants a riot at Sky City, then that’s the very last thing the anti-TPPA movement should give him.

Now with the news that the police are visiting (i.e. intimidating) known activists, Jane Kelsy has reached a similar conclusion:

Desperate Key trying to redefine TPPA as law & order issue

News that police have been visiting opponents of the TPPA ahead of next week’s signing is the latest step in an orchestrated move by the Prime Minister to try to redefine the signing of the hugely unpopular Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) as a law and order issue’, said long-time TPPA critic Professor Jane Kelsey.

‘Presumably the National Party’s polling shows they can claw back some of their support base if they can demonise the opposition to the TPPA and divert attention from the substantive issues of affordable medicines, privileged rights for foreign investors, democracy and sovereignty.’ …

I think Kelsey is right, in harassing activists Key is cynically trying to blow the “law and order” dog whistle. Is Trotter right too? Would Key really go so far as to try and provoke open violence for political gain? It worked for his idol Muldoon.

165 comments on “National – trying to provoke TPP violence? ”

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  1. Tautuhi 1
    29 January 2016 at 7:19 am

    Using Red Squad tactics?

    I wonder if the Clowns will protest this time after the hiding they got from the Red Squad during the Springbok Tour of 1981?

    • Rae 1.1
      29 January 2016 at 7:26 am

      But look where it got things.

      • Mike Bond 1.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 9:07 am

        Where did it get things to Rae? A democratic government in SA, with more joblessness, more violence and crime and more poverty than ever before! Not so great according to the South Africans I know. Even Minto was shocked when he went to SA and saw first hand the “progress” made in SA and what he fought for!

        • Molly 1.1.1.1
          29 January 2016 at 9:54 am

          “A democratic government in SA, with more joblessness, more violence and crime and more poverty than ever before! Not so great according to the South Africans I know. Even Minto was shocked when he went to SA and saw first hand the “progress” made in SA and what he fought for!”

          It is interesting that you believe that those protesting for human rights, have the power to affect such political balm and utopia for countries that have undergone vast internal conflicts.

          The current situation in SA, is not the “result” of protesting against apartheid. The pressure put on the SA government resulted in the legislation being changed – as it should have.

          The resulting conflict and disarray is because the system and principles that put apartheid in place in the first place, is the same one that was given the role of creating unity. It had no experience of doing so, and still doesn’t.

          • Paul 1.1.1.1.1
            30 January 2016 at 10:44 am

            Read Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.
            It explains how the establishment maintained control of SA’s economy, while letting go of the vote.

            • Jax 1.1.1.1.1.1
              30 January 2016 at 11:50 pm

              Yes Naomi was bang on.
              Those who blame Minto and all for Sth Africa’ills now are the same type who blame Palestinians for dying In Gaza during the last Opera
              tion slow genocide fleeing unarmed or at worst throwing comparitive pebbles against IDF dumdum bullets cluster bombs or white phosperous!

        • Naturesong 1.1.1.2
          29 January 2016 at 9:57 am

          Retaining the apartheid system would have prevented the move to neoliberalism?

          You’re dreaming.

          And poverty, crime joblessness and extrajudicial killings were non-existent under apartheid?

          Let me see if I understand you correctly.

          Being subjugated, treated as a second class citizen based on race where the police, or even just some random white guy, can kill you with impunity is better than the current neoliberal political structure?

        • framu 1.1.1.3
          29 January 2016 at 9:58 am

          non of which excuses what was going on before hand

          the ideal is democratic, one man one vote isnt it – how that plays out in a given country is a different matter

        • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.4
          29 January 2016 at 10:51 am

          Apartheid made the trains run on time!

    • Oliver 1.2
      29 January 2016 at 2:44 pm

      Today’s Police aren’t as tough as the Police in 81. Nowadays NZ Police are generally over weight and out of shape from sitting in the patrol car all day. Also there are no height restrictions and the physical entry requirements aren’t as challenging as they use to be. Plus there are woman. So if think today’s police wouldn’t be able to contain a decent sized riot.

      • Melvin 1.2.1
        31 January 2016 at 12:38 am

        Of course they now have light body armour, OC spray, tasers, expandable batons, Glock pistols and Bushmasters. Plus much better surveillance.

  2. Dialey 2
    29 January 2016 at 7:21 am

    Of course he would, it is classic out of the right wing text book, that was taken to extremes in the mid twentieth century. So much for “Lest we forget”.

    • cogito 2.1
      29 January 2016 at 9:03 am

      “So much for “Lest we forget”.”

      Well said. The current generation need to understand that the fight for freedom and democracy is not something remote, consigned to history books and remembered once a year. It is a continuing battle that needs to be fought every day, including right here on our own soil.

    • fisiani 2.2
      30 January 2016 at 10:47 am

      This is one of the most ridiculous posts ever. How can anyone provoke violence? That is just victim blaming. Would you claim that wife beating was provoked? Would you claim that Jew bashing was provoked by walking in an Islamic area.take some responsibility for your actions and stop blaming.

      • vto 2.2.1
        30 January 2016 at 10:52 am

        go do laws101 fool

        • fisiani 2.2.1.1
          30 January 2016 at 11:05 am

          You try telling a judge that you had no option but to smash your partners jaw because she insisted on nagging. No one can make you think or respond with violence. Stop justifying violence.

          • vto 2.2.1.1.1
            30 January 2016 at 11:43 am

            go do laws101 fool, plus some history
            sheesh, talk about ignorant

            • fisiani 2.2.1.1.1.1
              30 January 2016 at 11:56 am

              Are you seriously claiming that laws 101 states that you are allowed to break your partner’s jaw because that was the only possible response to her nagging. You could not have ignored it, gone for a walk, or justified your position. Nope You had to break her jaw because you felt provoked. Try telling a judge that.
              This is exactly the same argument here.
              Signing the TPP does not provoke violence.
              Holding it at Sky City does not provoke violence.
              Nothing that has happened or will happen provokes violence.
              Such a claim is just intellectual sloth. It tries to justify violence. Next you will be claiming that short skirts provoked rape.

      • Paul 2.2.2
        30 January 2016 at 12:21 pm

        ‘Justify violence.’

        I think the Warsaw Jews were right to use violence against the Nazis..
        I think Mandela was right to use violence against apartheid.
        I think the Vietnamese were right to use violence against French and US colonial rule.
        I think the French were right to use violence in 1789 to remove the ancien regime.
        I think the St Petersburg workers and soldiers were right to use violence to remove the Tsarist regime.
        I think the Cubans were right to use violence to remove Batista.
        I think the US colonists were right to use violence to gain their sovereignty from the British
        I think the indigenous peoples of America were right to use violence to oppose the settlement of their lands by European settlers.

        History shows us many examples of when violence is needed

        However, New Zealanders can and should oppose the TPPA peacefully. Violence will only give Key an excuse to marginalise opposition to this attempted corporate coup.

        • fisiani 2.2.2.1
          30 January 2016 at 12:26 pm

          Are you seriously claiming that signing a trade deal is comparable with any of the examples above. You have unwittingly just made my point.

          • vto 2.2.2.1.1
            30 January 2016 at 3:31 pm

            Each of those examples involves one group lording it over another, supposedly legally, in an unsustainable way.

            Given the nature of the TPPA and its effect on law-making by one group as opposed to another it is entirely comparable.

            If you think about it. Which I note is not possible with you today.

      • DoublePlusGood 2.2.3
        30 January 2016 at 2:42 pm

        Your task for today is to go an learn what the word provoke means, and try some basic reading comprehension on the post you criticised. Because, quite honestly, you’d fail an English test on reading comprehension set for high schoolers.

        • fisiani 2.2.3.1
          30 January 2016 at 3:08 pm

          It is intellectually dishonest to claim that the actions of your Government provoke violence. Just because you cannot by democratic means persuade people to have a different opinion does not justify violence. A Provocation attempted defence means that you lose your ability to be rational and reasonable. In other words you claim temporary insanity! It is just lazy to blame someone else for your own emotional feelings and actions.
          let’s try again
          Does nagging ever provoke a broken jaw?
          Does wearing a yarmulka provoke a broken jaw?
          Does signing a trade deal really provoke a broken jaw?
          If you accept the last one you must surely accept wife beating and anti Semitism.
          “i had to do it….I was provoked” is just a pathetic plea.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.3.1.1
            30 January 2016 at 3:20 pm

            Does being repeatedly shoved by a line of police feel provocative? Is it perhaps, designed to be so?

            How about undercover police dressed as protestors doing their best to incite violence? A citizens’ arrest would definitely be appropriate: all caught on video, naturally.

            How about deliberately underfunding state housing to the extent that some state houses have become death traps? Is that provocative, or is it simply a cause for self-defence?

            You can’t rely on people to just keep turning the other cheek to your relentless assaults upon their children.

            • fisiani 2.2.3.1.1.1
              30 January 2016 at 3:43 pm

              Is that meant to be an excuse for assaulting the police for simply ensuring your right to peaceful protest.That’s disgraceful!

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                30 January 2016 at 3:50 pm

                1. Is that meant to be an excuse…no, since:
                2. assaulting the police. Who said anything about assaulting the police? I don’t think a citizens’ arrest comes into the category of assault, does it?
                3. ensuring your right to peaceful protest. You aren’t listening – the example given was right wing elements within the police, inciting violence.
                4. It’s not so much disgraceful as typical of your feeble grasp on things.

                • fisiani …
                  30 January 2016 at 5:35 pm

                  of course you mean assaulting the police. You cannot enter Sky City that day as it is hosting a private function with dozens of foreign visitors. The police have every right to protect these people from vigilantes intent on violence. Police do not push unless pushed. Stop being paranoid about the police. Why would police incite violence?? Their job is to prevent violence , Duh.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    30 January 2016 at 5:47 pm

                    Who said anything about entering Sky City? There are plenty of less public opportunities to “meet” National Party trash.

                    There are also plenty of examples of Police creating false identities in the stupid fantasy that they’ll be able to entrap some activists. Either you approve of such things or are ignorant of them and in either case your opinion is worthless.

                    • fisiani …
                      30 January 2016 at 6:09 pm

                      meet = arrest = harm. after all you admit that you regard human beings from the Centre-Right as mere trash.
                      activist= violent thug who believes the law does not apply to them.
                      I’m starting to understand Leftspeak.
                      entrap = excuse for thuggery

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      30 January 2016 at 6:25 pm

                      Nope, once again you’re looking at this through amygdala-tinted lenses.

                      If you don’t want to be seen as trash, stop denying child poverty and do something about it instead. Something that works. You may have to swallow some rats.

                      As for the law applying to me, it applies to me as much as it applies to Jason Ede, Grant Wormald, and the numpties who (no doubt) followed illegal orders to turn Hager’s place over.

                      The difference between me and them is that I haven’t actually stepped over the line. Activism takes many forms, Fearboy.

                  • Trev …
                    31 January 2016 at 6:01 pm

                    The only necessity then is to have a strong security presence at access to the sky city.
                    Protestor will remain peaceful (but noisy!) Without the threat from riot squad or armed police. That would be provocation & could smell of “police state control” from our right wing sector.

                  • clara …
                    1 February 2016 at 8:35 am

                    You sound like a paid national troll. No facts, talking without understanding what you are talking about. Not hearing what others are saying. Thinking you no everything when you actually sound like a twat… hold up JK is that you??!!

      • Jeeves 2.2.4
        1 February 2016 at 12:29 pm

        Tell that to the Flying Pickets in the ’80’s coal mine strikes-
        The Police herded them into fields with no water or toilets- held them there for the whole day, and then started processing them one by one, aggressively.

        Tell it to the youth in NZ who turned up to watch street racing- and were detained for hours and hours by NZs finest (unlawfully) and treated with aggression and contempt…

        Tell that to the Civil Right movement in NI who had 14 of their number killed by British troops.

        Tell that to the French, or the British, or the Americans in WWII – you idiot.

        Tell that to any SA black.

  3. Sacha 3
    29 January 2016 at 7:51 am

    Note recent use of the word ‘security’ in interviews by the PM and his main handler Mr Joyce. Farrar has been busy.

  4. savenz 4
    29 January 2016 at 8:13 am

    The TPP protests (and climate change protests) are full of families with kids and have been very peaceful. Not sure why this one would be any different.

    Saying that the NZ police will probably have to defer to the US style police and overreaction could escalate (a sign of things to come under TPP where other countries policing methods and strategies are imposed on NZ police).

    Hey won’t be long before the Natz realise they can cut police wages too, with cheaper overseas police officers flooding in under TPP.

    The Natz are already increasing our international corruption rating, how far can it fall under their leadership?

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1
      29 January 2016 at 8:32 am

      “The TPP protests (and climate change protests) are full of families with kids and have been very peaceful. Not sure why this one would be any different.”

      Families with kids. Retirees…whole lotta them. People on crutches and in wheelchairs. Not exactly your archetypal rentamob demographic.

      Lots of angry Young People…and who can blame them when their future looks so grim?

      We have talked to people who have never protested about anything in their lives.

      And a considerable number are over Our Leader’s arrogance and contempt for the average New Zealander.

      Personally, being told by Our Leader that those of us who rallied and marched last year were ‘misinformed’ and ‘politically irrelevant’ merely cemented our commitment.

      • Jones 4.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 8:40 am

        “Personally, being told by Our Leader that those of us who rallied and marched last year were ‘misinformed’ and ‘politically irrelevant’ merely cemented our commitment.”

        +100

    • Magisterium 4.2
      29 January 2016 at 2:35 pm

      The TPP protests (and climate change protests) are full of families with kids and have been very peaceful. Not sure why this one would be any different.

      Because of muppets like this:

      https://www.facebook.com/Real-Choice-1628388307418789/

      ALSE FAY AG FLAY

  5. Puckish Rogue 5
    29 January 2016 at 8:29 am

    So don’t start any trouble, obey the law and everythings fine

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1
      29 January 2016 at 8:36 am

      First they came for the showerheads, and you spoke out loud and clear.

      Then they came for the lightbulbs, and you drove them back.

      Now they’ve come for the sovereignty of your parliament and you bow and scrape and do their bidding like a good little authoritarian.

      • Pat 5.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 8:40 am

        +1

        nothing like a little self interested hypocrisy

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2
        29 January 2016 at 8:55 am

        The law allows for peaceful demonstration, I’m all for that so no problems

        • cogito 5.1.2.1
          29 January 2016 at 9:21 am

          And when your führer removes that right in order to further cement in his power? What will you do then?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.2.1.1
            29 January 2016 at 9:24 am

            He’ll get a special uniform with shiny buttons and help to open and close the gates, of course.

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.1.2
            29 January 2016 at 9:27 am

            Typical of the left, always making reference to John Keys jewish background. Thought you guys might have learned from Labours Chinese sounding name debacle that NZers don’t appreciate it

            • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.2.1.2.1
              29 January 2016 at 9:33 am

              🙄

              Pathetically tedious pigfucker strategy. Something must have touched a nerve 😆

            • Naturesong 5.1.2.1.2.2
              29 January 2016 at 10:04 am

              Just fuck off.

              No one cares that Key has Jewish ancestry.

              Key is judged on his words and actions.

            • weka 5.1.2.1.2.3
              29 January 2016 at 10:10 am

              Key was being compared to a tyrannical leader of the kind associate with Nazi Germany, and you bring up his Jewish ancestry? That’s pretty fucked up even for you.

            • Anno1701 5.1.2.1.2.4
              29 January 2016 at 10:41 am

              “Typical of the left, always making reference to John Keys jewish background. ”

              thats pathetic, Id dock your pay for that one….

            • savenz 5.1.2.1.2.5
              29 January 2016 at 11:05 am

              @PR – I think Key has got more in common with the Nazi’s than the Jews…. sending a Nation off on an ideological quest, taking over the media with propaganda, sending the police in and increasing surveillance measures, increasing corruption index, reducing free speech, sending troops off to wars for political gain, engulfing Maori by post colonisation colonisation … etc etc

              Of course under the “Animal Farm” scenario, the persecuted became the persecutors….

              Maybe Key is channelling a bit from both – he is dubbed the smiling assassin for his cheerfulness demeanour while firing people….

              I guess TPP and the signing of it within this country is “smiling assassin takes over a country….”

            • The Pink Postman 5.1.2.1.2.6
              29 January 2016 at 3:41 pm

              Puckish R

              I have never heard or seen any comments on Key’s Jewish background ,other than the fact that he has denied his Yiddish background . His kids went to Christian schools and he goes to church. Be interesting to know if he ever attends the Synagogue in Grey St . He’s a traitor and opportunist and untrustworthy.

              • cogito …
                29 January 2016 at 5:43 pm

                “he goes to church”

                LOL. I can just hear him reciting “Our Dollar who art supreme, hallowed be my greed…”

            • Stuart Munro 5.1.2.1.2.7
              30 January 2016 at 12:03 pm

              It’s not that he’s a jew, it’s that he’s a crook – and birds of a feather and all that – presumably you’re one too.

          • TopHat 5.1.2.1.3
            29 January 2016 at 3:48 pm

            “Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum (Latin for “reduction to Hitler”, where Hitlerum serves as the accusative case of Adolf Hitler’s surname in Latin) is a term coined by German-American philosopher Leo Strauss in 1951.[1] According to Strauss, the Reductio ad Hitlerum is a humorous observation where someone compares an opponent’s views with those that would be held by Hitler or the Nazi Party.

            According to Strauss, Reductio ad Hitlerum is a form of ad hominem, ad misericordiam, or a fallacy of irrelevance. The suggested rationale is one of guilt by association.

            The term is coined in an analogy with “reductio ad absurdum”.

            Reductio ad Hitlerum is sometimes called “playing the Nazi card”. According to its critics and proponents, it is a tactic often used to derail arguments, because such comparisons tend to distract and anger the opponent, as Hitler and Nazism are seen as unpopular in the modern Western world

            – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

            never mind racism;

        • Naturesong 5.1.2.2
          29 January 2016 at 9:36 am

          Yup, thats the issue.

          Will the police obey the law?

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.2.1
            29 January 2016 at 9:49 am

            If they don’t then they should be prosecuted as well

            • Naturesong 5.1.2.2.1.1
              29 January 2016 at 10:01 am

              You’re right, they should.

              But this is NZ, so they don’t.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                29 January 2016 at 10:26 am

                It is true the NZ police are soft when it comes to anything to do with politicians or electoral laws

                • Naturesong …
                  29 January 2016 at 11:54 am

                  I’m talking about the regularity with which the NZ police use their privileged position to perpetrate large scale organised violence against the people of NZ.

                  Queen St riot, Tahoe raids 2007, riots at Whangamata and the Mount in years gone by. This list is massive,
                  Ask around. Everybody seems to have a story of when they first realised that the police were a law unto themselves.

                  Then there is the individual violence where officers view someone asserting their legal rights to be a legitimate target of violence.

                  And the sort of shit they used to pull in the 80’s in Auckland where if you were a young male and they hadn’t seen you before would arrest you on a pretext in order to fingerprint and photograph you.
                  Then release you without charge at 2.30am (coldest part of the night – no public transport).
                  If you were a māori lad, the period between when you were arrested and when they threw you back onto the street was likely to be very unpleasant.

                  Seriously, where did you grow up?
                  Because if you are ignorant of NZP’s history of abusing their position and the citizens of NZ you’ve been living under a rock.

            • Stuart Munro 5.1.2.2.1.2
              29 January 2016 at 1:11 pm

              Like they will be for the Hager home invasion? Not holding my breath.

          • cogito 5.1.2.2.2
            29 January 2016 at 9:55 am

            @Naturesong

            Only when the law and the Leader’s wishes happen to coincide.

        • adam 5.1.2.3
          30 January 2016 at 12:59 pm

          So Puckish Rogue if a agent provocateur, starts violence, will you arrest John Key as the head of the secret service for breaking the law?

      • Molly 5.1.3
        29 January 2016 at 9:55 am

        🙂

    • fisiani 5.2
      29 January 2016 at 12:07 pm

      Eleanor Roosevelt once said ” No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
      Fisiani agrees and says ‘No one can make you feel angry without your consent.”

      If protesters are angry that is their choice.
      If protesters are violent that is their choice.
      If protesters break the law that is their choice.
      How dare they try to claim provocation makes them act badly. How dare they try to claim that they are somehow forced to be angry, violent and break the law.
      When will the Left ever take personal responsibility for their thoughts, feelings emotions and reactions?
      Would they smash a woman’s jaw because she was “nagging”?
      Would they smash a policeman’s jaw because he/she was doing their job?

  6. vto 6
    29 January 2016 at 8:36 am

    Of course Key would. His type are bastards and hard as nails when needed – do not underestimate. Box clever.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/another-win-for-nicky-hager/#comment-1124440

    The precedents are everywhere.

  7. Anne 7
    29 January 2016 at 8:57 am

    This harassment of so-called TPP activists by the police could also be a calculated attempt to frighten people away from protesting. They know their tactics would be widely reported and many ordinary folk will think twice about joining a march.

    It is also a political tactic in that it would allow the government to claim majority of voters in favour of the TPP. Government by intimidation!

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.1
      29 January 2016 at 9:31 am

      “This harassment of so-called TPP activists by the police could also be a calculated attempt to frighten people away from protesting. They know their tactics would be widely reported and many ordinary folk will think twice about joining a march.”

      +1000

      We must not let this happen.

      No violence. No vandalism. No chants or placards advocating either. However great the provocation.

      It will be the number of people marching at various venues that will be most effective.

      What would be great is that when the protest screens on telly…a large number of fence sitters will regret not having participated.

  8. Neil 8
    29 January 2016 at 9:00 am

    I have a feeling Key will have a group of agitators lined up to kick something off at the protest, so Key can paint the protesters as a bunch of vicious thugs.

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1
      29 January 2016 at 9:19 am

      Oh please really? Quit watching American drama shows, how likely is it something like this could be pulled off without someone leaking

      Not very likely at all, its something the ham-fisted Labour party might think about but John Keys smarter then that

      • cogito 8.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 9:34 am

        “Quit watching American drama shows”

        What about the Dotcom raid? That was an American drama show right on NZ soil, orchestrated by Key.

        • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1
          29 January 2016 at 9:42 am

          and look what happened in the aftermath, prosecutions, lawsuits etc etc handled very badly

          Keys smart, hes not going to let that happen again

          • cogito 8.1.1.1.1
            29 January 2016 at 10:11 am

            “Keys smart, hes not going to let that happen again”

            Next time there will be no witnesses or loose ends.

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.1.1
              29 January 2016 at 10:31 am

              NZs too small for that to happen no matter what you’d like to believe…in fact I reckon there are times when some on the left actively hope for something like this

              Its almost like some have a real martyr complex going on

              • framu …
                29 January 2016 at 12:01 pm

                your ignoring that infiltration in order to stir up trouble has happened in NZ – a particular case exposed on this very site comes to mind

              • Don't worry. Be happy …
                30 January 2016 at 9:13 am

                There were undercover cops on many anti tour marches. particularly obvious in smaller towns,like Dunedin

                • red-blooded …
                  30 January 2016 at 3:13 pm

                  I was involved in organising anti-tour marches in ’85 (when the ABs were going to SA – called off in the end because the Labour government wouldn’t issue visas, which meant most went anyway as “The Cavaliers). Our planning group was infiltrated by an undercover cop. As it happens, I’m not ashamed of anything said or done by that group (no, I’ll go further – I’m proud), and there were no prosecutions because it wasn’t the group organising illegal activities, but it’s definitely a case that shows our NZ police infiltrating and spying on a protest group.

          • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.1.2
            29 January 2016 at 1:15 pm

            All of which is no compensation to the victim of their theatrics. Dotcom would’ve led a significant IT sector in NZ by now – but Key fed him to the corrupt US system for brownie points.

            Think Key wouldn’t drive LAVs over protestors? He wouldn’t even blink.

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.2.1
              29 January 2016 at 1:45 pm

              Bollix, KDC would have shafted everyone he came in contact with. The IT sector in NZ can breath a sigh of relief it didn’t happen.

              • Stuart Munro …
                29 January 2016 at 11:45 pm

                Innocent man and business destroyed by corrupt state – just like SCF. Key is no better than Stalin.

          • McFlock 8.1.1.1.3
            29 January 2016 at 7:48 pm

            If key were all that smart, it wouldn’t have happened the first time around.

        • Puckish Rogue 8.1.2.1
          29 January 2016 at 10:38 am

          Exactly my point, all big, large countries with more resources then NZ yet the media get hold of it so what hope would NZ with its extremely small population be able to pull off something like this?

          Not likely is all, you think someone in an office somewhere wouldn’t gossip about this to someone…then they’d talk to someone and so forth

          Wouldn’t take long for the media or the Left to get hold of this and that would sink National quicker then anything Labour are likely to come up with on their own

          • cogito 8.1.2.1.1
            29 January 2016 at 11:09 am

            You’re dreaming mate.

            The media? Like those bunch of paparazzi working for Key’s mate Weldon? They go after every dead cat he throws at them, leaving him all the space he needs to undertake his dirty tricks out of sight.

            As for someone in an office etc, you’re dreaming again. Remember what happened to that poor waitress re ponytail-gate. She was well and truly shafted by Key’s mate Glucina at the Herald. People are scared stiff of spilling the beans or attracting attention. They just take cover and hope they won’t be in the firing line.

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.2.1.1.1
              29 January 2016 at 11:18 am

              and everyone knows about it, the story wasn’t hidden it was right there on the news, in the papers everywhere

              If the media were really in the thrall of the National Party stories like this would never see the light of day

              • cogito …
                29 January 2016 at 11:34 am

                Thank the Lord for Bomber and The Daily Blog, as that’s who she contacted. Then Key’s mob tried to shaft her.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                30 January 2016 at 6:33 pm

                😆 Is that some deliberate misunderstanding much? Or do I need to explain “clickbait” to you?

          • joe90 8.1.2.1.2
            29 January 2016 at 1:50 pm

            so what hope would NZ with its extremely small population be able to pull off something like this?

            They have.

            /

      • Pasupial 8.1.3
        29 January 2016 at 11:01 am

        PR

        NAct couldn’t pull off their dirty politics without leaking, but since they control the media that didn’t hurt them much. Their problem seems to be more one of self-aggrandizing boasting than leaking – for example, take Pannett on the Dotcom raid:

        “Feedback on the New Zealand operation has been extremely positive from our international law enforcement partners including the FBI and the US Department of Justice,” Mr Pannett reported in the February Police online magazine, TenOne.

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1210/S00006/key-dotcom-and-hollywood.htm

        Also, perhaps you could suggest an Aotearoan drama show to watch (Shortland St doesn’t count)? Everything on the TV seems to be made overseas – most often in the USA.

        • Puckish Rogue 8.1.3.1
          29 January 2016 at 11:14 am

          I’d look to see if this available somewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Governor_(TV_series)

          • Pasupial 8.1.3.1.1
            29 January 2016 at 12:06 pm

            A 1977 series is the most recent example you can recall of a New Zealand drama show? I can think of several more recent than that, just not so many in the last few years. But then I don’t watch a lot of TV these days.

            I’ll take your silence as agreement on my main point that; “[NAct’s] problem seems to be more one of self-aggrandizing boasting than leaking”.

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.3.1.1.1
              29 January 2016 at 12:21 pm

              It is, kiwis like a bit of boasting but theres a line and National are very close to it.

              The Governor is still one of the best dramas ever made

      • b waghorn 8.1.4
        29 January 2016 at 11:53 am

        A couple of texts to his mate slater would suffice I’m sure. Their would be a few oily fans happy to do a bit of dirty work .

      • Wensleydale 8.1.5
        29 January 2016 at 10:01 pm

        Watch “Into The Fire”, a documentary freely available on YouTube about the 2010 G20 protests in Toronto. You think agent provocateurs are a figment of left-wing imagination? This film might disabuse you of that notion. There is footage of so-called Black Block activists, smashing up shop-front windows and setting fire to conveniently abandoned police cruisers, only to then retreat behind police lines. You also hear first-hand stories from victims of police brutality, including an elderly amputee who was dragged through a park by the police, and had his prosthetic leg confiscated as a “make-shift weapon”. Anyone who thinks this stuff is pure fantasy has their head buried in the sand.

    • whateva next? 8.2
      29 January 2016 at 11:18 am

      wouldn’t surprise me in the least, his answer to everything” throw money at it”, and pay a wadge of cash some idiots to pose as “agitators”.

  9. weka 9
    29 January 2016 at 9:01 am

    Hooton appears to be reading from the same dog whistle memo,

    Matthew Hooton …
    28 January 2016 at 9:40 pm

    You make a good point. So why are people going to riot against the signing?

    http://thestandard.org.nz/little-on-tpp-i-dont-support-it-we-dont-support-it/#comment-1125133

    That’s pretty sick.

  10. roy cartland 10
    29 January 2016 at 9:20 am

    Is Muldoon really his idol? I was pretty young at the time of Muldoon, but the more I read about him the more he seems like he’d almost be to the left of Labour these days. (Not trolling, btw, any enlightenment welcome.)

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1
      29 January 2016 at 9:24 am

      I actually wouldn’t mind a bit of Muldoonism back…like making the entire state highway one four lanes and all bridges on state highways to be at least double lane

  11. Penny Bright 11
    29 January 2016 at 9:47 am

    Let’s FOCUS on getting THOUSANDS of concerned New Zealanders to PACK Queen Street, for one hour of peaceful protest on Thursday 4 February 2016, from 12 noon till 1pm.
    Starting from Aotea Square and ending at Britomart, to show this John Key led National Government (and the world!) that we do NOT want NZ to sign the TPPA!

    How are YOU going to get to Aotea Square at 12 noon on Thursday 4 February 2016?

    Who are you going to bring with you?

    How are YOU going to help get the word out to STAND UP and be counted against the TPPA in this colourful, family-friendly peaceful protest up Queen Street – lunchtime Thursday 4 February 2016?

    It’s (peaceful) PEOPLE POWER time!

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

  12. Bill 12
    29 January 2016 at 10:30 am

    Well, on all the protests I’ve been along to over the years, I’ve never (pickets aside) witnessed any violence.

    Look for the small band of agent provocateurs who may be out to give TVNZ the ‘lobbed brick’ footage the Prime Minister may be craving.

    edit – If it does happen, form a two or three deep human ring around them. Join hands or lock arms. Slowly shuffle out and away from the march. And get your cell phone camera on to it 😉

  13. Bill 13
    29 January 2016 at 10:45 am

    Dunedin strikes me as particularly dodgy 😉

    From personal email in-box.

    On Saturday 30th January, 12 pm to 2.30 pm in the Octagon, we are holding a rally/picnic/info and entertainment “TPPA Don’t Sign” action event for all the family. Come along and say ‘Hi!’, bring your lunch or afternoon tea, meet some friends and sign the petition. We welcome participation from people or groups with positive alternatives to share and if you want to take part in any way, please reply by return email.

    • weka 13.1
      29 January 2016 at 10:54 am

      Lol, last time Dunedin had a riot it was drunken students trying to uphold their privilege to burn couches on the street. Protestors generally can’t be bothered with that shit (the Tour might be the one exception).

      • Bill 13.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 11:03 am

        Not even sure that students were rioting on that occasion, so much as drunken testosterone laden young lads reacting unwisely to a heavy handed police presence.

        Anyway…I’m liking the idea that Dunedin is possibly doing something a bit more involved than the usual “march/rally and…go home” nonsense that’s come to pass itself off as effective participation of society in protest these past years.

  14. Mosa 14
    29 January 2016 at 11:09 am

    Key does not make tatical blunders!!
    Make no mistake he is behaving like all tin pot dictators with the silent approval of all NATIONAL MP’S. and Phil Goff who is totally misguided on the ramifications of this on the independence and sovereignty of NZ
    He has a short memory it was not that long ago that he was a victim
    of Keys dirty tricks hit squad. Little has his work cut out on this one.

  15. whateva next? 15
    29 January 2016 at 11:21 am

    …and Right Wing agitators, Hooten et al, implying the protests are against a “free” trade agreement, doesn’t look very “free” to me (off shore tribunals insuring corporate welfare), and far from “letting the market” decide, it’s ensuring the big boys decide, and the rest of us can go to hell.

  16. TopHat 16
    29 January 2016 at 11:31 am

    This is merely the catalyst for new laws granting greater powers to SIS, GCSB, Police etc.

  17. riffer 17
    29 January 2016 at 11:46 am

    I’m of the opinion we have more to fear from agents provocateur creating “video bites” to use against the anti-TPP protests. The likelihood of large scale riot police action against crowds containing large amounts of women and children is much less, and would turn the tide against the government. There’s some sneaky stuff going on all right.

  18. Mosa 18
    29 January 2016 at 11:49 am

    Key does not make serious tactical errors!! The Sky city sign up venue is delibrate.
    He wins either way.
    If people are violent it will strengthen his position as it did for Muldoon in 1981 changing the debate to one of law and order and his justification for harsh methods used to contain the increasing violence.
    So much money and influence have been used by Key/Joyce and others for the benefit of Sky City that it was a given that this was the venue for the TPPA sign up.
    The irony of course is that after the Hobbit the Sky city deal was the start of our democracy being signed away.

  19. Anne 19
    29 January 2016 at 11:52 am

    Martyn Bradbury’s latest post on DTB.

    American narc put in charge of NZ Police for TPPA protests.

    What this boils down to: any good law abiding citizens who dare to stick their heads above the parapet and acknowledge they are against the TPPA as it currently stands, are now to be treated as prospective terrorists?

    • Heather Grimwood 19.1
      29 January 2016 at 2:32 pm

      to Anne at 19…..I hear Muldoon’s diatribes re terrorists ringing in my ears!

      • Anne 19.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 2:55 pm

        We were all dangerous Commies in Muldoon’s day. He had the SIS/Police compile a list of people supposedly involved in subversive Communist activity – 100 of them from memory. Some were well known members of the Communist Party who made no attempt to hide their political sympathies so were unlikely to be subversives. The rest were just common garden Kiwis who were either in the wrong place at the wrong time or who helped organise protests against the Vietnam War, sporting contacts with Apartheid Sth. Africa and French nuclear testing in the Pacific. From memory there were a few successful defamation cases against RD Muldoon over that little saga.

        • vto 19.1.1.1
          30 January 2016 at 10:24 am

          Anne “who helped organise protests against the Vietnam War, sporting contacts with Apartheid Sth. Africa and French nuclear testing in the Pacific. ”

          Funny how all major protest movements turn out to be wholly and completely correct in the end.

          Right wing conservative Nat Party members take note (yeah right – some people never learn)

          The protestors have been right in the past.

          They will be shown to be right again now.

          If only said dumbarse right wing conservative folk learned to acknowledge their own limitations, namely an inability to see the future. And enhance their talents, namely acting as ballast in the bottom of the ship

          • Anne 19.1.1.1.1
            30 January 2016 at 3:53 pm

            Funny how all major protest movements turn out to be wholly and completely correct in the end.

            I made the same observation on this site a few days ago.

            Not sure what you meant by “who helped organise protests……”. There were the well known figures such as the late Tom Newman, Trevor Richards and of course John Minto. But behind them were a host of individuals including a large contingent from the Labour Party who assisted behind the scenes.

  20. framu 20
    29 January 2016 at 12:04 pm

    theres an easy answer – party as protest

    PA systems make more noise, you can still have signs and its an atmosphere of fun

    bit hard to paint people dancing in the street as thugs

    • Stuart Munro 20.1
      29 January 2016 at 1:16 pm

      “A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having.” – V

    • Richard Christie 20.2
      29 January 2016 at 2:28 pm

      bit hard to paint people dancing in the street as thugs

      Please recall what happened to “the clowns” in ’81, as they had their skulls cracked.

      • framu 20.2.1
        29 January 2016 at 2:38 pm

        true – but thats a group of clowns in the middle of a crowd (plus ive known a few Ronald McDonalds who have copped a baton in a crowd as well)

        it becomes a different story if the entire crowd is doing it – which is my point.

        By presenting a protest that is having fun you still get to shout your message to the roof tops and disrupt things – but how you are viewed by the MSM and the public changes

        note: this only works if its everyone doing it

  21. whatisis 21
    29 January 2016 at 12:38 pm

    Personally I have been tinkering with the all black supporters disguise and making a really good slingshot.
    As I read in a comment the other day protesting just gets ignored and the ptb just rock on.
    So good luck with your peacefull protest. Anarchy and mayhem is whats necessary to make any difference at this late stage in my mind.

    • Naturesong 21.1
      29 January 2016 at 1:11 pm

      If you choose violence thats your lookout, but please keep it away from the protests.

      There will be families, kids and elderly attending.

    • Stuart Munro 21.2
      29 January 2016 at 1:43 pm

      Police wear padding, helmets and shields. You’d only make them angry.

      • gsays 21.2.1
        29 January 2016 at 7:23 pm

        all the padding and helmets and anger doesnt count for much if your thumbs are cable tied behind yr back.
        because an organized, coordinated crowd would quickly overwhelm any constabulary.

        but then what?

        • Stuart Munro 21.2.1.1
          29 January 2016 at 8:32 pm

          Investigate Key’s involvement in

          * Equiticorp
          *SCF
          *NZ Rail shares
          *GCSB

          These will be sufficient to establish his criminality, which automatically removes him from parliament. Likewise investigate his colleagues. The Blue Team will be down to about three members by the time the new election is called.

    • greywarshark 21.3
      30 January 2016 at 10:46 am

      whatisis
      You sound just like a human wrecking ball. It can take quite a few swings before a building tumbles down. The political system and infrastructure that has been built in NZ is already under attack though still standing, trembling a little.

      Your approach would further this attack on the people’s heritage of government and civilisation. The rest of us won’t feel grateful to you. Would you be just after the satisfaction of breaking our toys? If so you are a nasty boy and we don’t want to play with you.

  22. Robert Glennie 22
    29 January 2016 at 12:44 pm

    The Trans Pacific Partnership protests have been too peaceful for National. So, because it could not find a threat, it is manufacturing a threat.

    http://willnewzealandberight.com/2016/01/29/police-surveillance-of-t-p-p-a-protestors-a-sign-of-desperation/

  23. whateva next? 23
    29 January 2016 at 12:49 pm

    The Tories sure are “strong in standing up to the weak, and weak in standing up to the strong” in every way, the TPPA, the attitude to protesters, shows this very clearly, as I have just said on TDB aswell

  24. Sabine 24
    29 January 2016 at 1:06 pm

    Martin Luther King and this one particular demonstration in Birmingham comes to mind, when the police put watercanons to work and let loose dogs on People dressed in their Sunday finest demonstrating for their right to be considered human.
    It was the one demonstration that changed the mindset. It was one thing to set the dogs loose on Man demonstrating, but water canon, dogs onto women and children?

    http://www.express.co.uk/pictures/galleries/3021/Civil-Rights-Voting-Act-1965-anniversary-Rosa-Parks-Martin-Luther-King-pictures/Firemen-prepare-to-use-water-cannons-to-suppress-African-American-demonstrators-on-the-far-side-of-the-street-during-race-riots-in-Birmingham-Alabama-in-the-1960s-67141

    Me thinks that those that want the police to be going after protesters to show the ‘loony lefty ‘ and the ‘key haters’ and the ‘anti tppa children’ should be careful about the ghosts they are calling. They might not get rid of them and it might back fire.

    Personally I think the best that could be done is what Police Officers in the States did to Barack Obama last year http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/why-the-nypd-turned-its-back-on-the-city/384196/ after all what is good for the goose is good for the gander

    • whateva next? 24.1
      29 January 2016 at 2:45 pm

      The government resorted to same tactics (surveillance , intimidation and public punishment/humiliation) when women dared to ask for a vote in England, how very dare they

  25. Richard@Down South 25
    29 January 2016 at 1:27 pm

    It’s a pretty shitty situation…

    You can refuse to talk to the police IIRC, if they don’t have a warrant?

    • TopHat 25.1
      29 January 2016 at 1:57 pm

      You can refuse to talk to the police even if they do have a warrant.

      • Richard@Down South 25.1.1
        29 January 2016 at 2:30 pm

        Sorry, I meant you don’t have to let them in

        Police “We’re here to have a chat”
        No Warrant? No thanks

        • One Anonymous Bloke 25.1.1.1
          30 January 2016 at 3:59 pm

          OAB: Hi officer.
          Officer: Hi Mr. OAB. I have few questions to ask regarding your involvement in the TPP demonstrations.
          OAB: I wish to report a crime in progress.
          Officer: ?
          OAB: Officer, who ordered you to illegally interfere in my lawful business? Stop harassing your employer and go and do your job,
          and I’ll try to make sure you get a pay-rise and more front-line colleagues too.

  27. Scott M 27
    29 January 2016 at 6:06 pm

    Anyone have a reasonable prediction of how many are expected to protest in CBD on 4th Feb?

  28. Mosa 28
    29 January 2016 at 8:19 pm

    All of you who hated the so called nanny state can now sit back and enjoy the police state instead !!!

  29. anthony 29
    30 January 2016 at 10:22 am

    Everyone attending the rally could wear bright happy colored clothing with heads and faces open and uncovered, that way if any naughty folk want to provoke trouble they will stand out like the proverbial ……….

  30. greywarshark 30
    30 January 2016 at 10:35 am

    I might be repeating this info heard on RADIONZ this morning but a speaker on non violent protests and when they work or don’t was interesting

    Professor and Associate Dean for Research at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver, and expert on non-violent civil resistance, and terrorism.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201787445

    8:12 Erica Chenoweth
    Dr Erica Chenoweth is Professor and Associate Dean for Research at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver. An expert on non-violent civil resistance, she was named one of the Top 100 Global Thinkers of 2013 by Foreign Policy magazine, and her 22011 book with Maria J Stephan, Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict (Columbia Universiy Press), has won many awards.

    Professor Chenoweth is visiting New Zealand on a William Evans Fellowship as a guest of the National Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Otago
    (to 12 February).
    While at the university, she will present a seminar, Do Violent Flanks Help or Hurt Campaigns of Nonviolent Resistance? (2 February), and a public lecture, Why Civil Resistance Works (11 February).

  31. Coaster 31
    30 January 2016 at 10:43 am

    If there are riots against the tpp it will damage bernie sanders as well, at a very crucial time.

  32. Paul 32
    30 January 2016 at 11:55 am

    Anyone else noticed that Hooton felt he had to get his spin right at the top of the recent thread against the TPPA by Andrew Little ?
    I sense the Nats are very nervous about the public’s perception of TPPA.

    • Whateva next? 32.1
      30 January 2016 at 2:44 pm

      Yep, he sure is putting a lot of energy into undermining Andrew Little, showing himself as the twerp we know he is

  33. TeWhareWhero 33
    30 January 2016 at 12:45 pm

    I think a mass showing of bare bums would be the most appropriate form of protest.

  34. Just Me 34
    30 January 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Methinks Key has been watching too many Sleeping Dogs videos.
    It’s a wonderful way for him to bring in American troops to quell the peasant stock(ordinary NZers) to do his bidding. He has never listened to NZers in the past and unlikely to ever do so. It’s John Key’s way or John Key’s way. A lunatic exists within John Key.

    Out of all this I think we now know there is no such thing as an honest National government politician. They are all tainted with the same brush. But it’s a shame they seem to have completely lost touch with NZers because they must always obey their Dearest Leader i.e one American John Key.

    Someday and I am sure it will happen sometime soon I wish Key would start listening to New Zealanders. Right now in his perfect arrogance he has lost complete touch with us Kiwis whilst he pursues his love affair of all things American.

  35. mac1 35
    30 January 2016 at 3:51 pm

    142 comments so far.
    Comments by fisiani or in reaction to his foolery some 29.
    Comments by Puckish Rogue and his introduction of his misleading comments about Jewishness and racism, and reaction thereto some 40.

    Half of this important topic responsible to two jerk offs and their spawn.

  36. mark tugendhaft 36
    30 January 2016 at 6:10 pm

    That is why he is using armed guards. But if he gets too heavy maybe it will backfire on him?

    the real next move is a vote of no confidence by a coalition of Labour, Greens, Maori party, NZ First

  37. RangiMarie aka Lady Justice 37
    30 January 2016 at 7:02 pm

    What is the greatest threat John Key corrupt government faces….the First Maori Queen to replace their queen elizabeth of england who never resided here! Kamutu porangi pakeha haere ra ki Ingarangi Haere ra haere ra! INDEPENDENCE ON HORIZON FOR NEW ZEALAND under Maori Tribal governing.

  38. Rosemary McDonald 38
    30 January 2016 at 10:06 pm

    Stuff coverage of today’s protest in Christchurch.

    Goodness gracious me!

    I thought the protests were supposed to be peaceful and non violent…so Christchurch rolls out the heavy mob.

    Tut tut tut…Key has every cause to worry.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/76413819/democracy-buried-at-antitppa-protest-in-christchurch

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