Off to Oz

34 comments on “Off to Oz ”

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1. mickysavage 1

   14 February 2011 at 3:43 pm

   We need to wave goodbye to this government, not our family and friends

   Can I amend that to “We need to smile and wave goodbye to this government …”
2. infused 2

   14 February 2011 at 4:18 pm

   blah blah recession blah blah aussie has china blah blah. Get with it people. Aussie is the next to crash and burn. Love to see your headlines then.
   • The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 2.1

     14 February 2011 at 4:24 pm

     Aussie is the next to crash and burn.

     And in the meantime – while we’re all waiting for this putative apocalypse – New Zealanders will continue to flock across the ditch, where they will have better pay and more job opportunities because the Nats lack the basic competence to run a functioning economy.
     • infused 2.1.1

       14 February 2011 at 10:47 pm

       aussie is only better off because of china and mining. You lot don’t want to mine… see the problem here?

       Since it’s a recession there’s fuck all else you can do until the bigger players in the world start doing something. We can only be well positioned once the rest of the world recovers.
       • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

         14 February 2011 at 11:00 pm

         You lot don’t want to mine… see the problem here?

         Yeah like TradeMe and 42 Below made hundreds of millions by mining rocks.

         Rakon in Auckland turns rocks into thousand dollar crystal chips.

         Let’s use a little bit more imagination, we are the land of no.8 fencing wire after all.
         • infused 2.1.1.1.1

           14 February 2011 at 11:26 pm

           Suggestions? I don’t have many to be honest. I really can’t see what NZ can do. You create smart people, they will get plucked. You create smart technology it will be bought… we are too small.
           • The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 2.1.1.1.1.1

             15 February 2011 at 8:21 am

             My goodness, how do you manage to get through the day on this wave of heady optimism? Or is moaning and bleating now a full-time paid occupation?
             • infused …

               15 February 2011 at 8:42 pm

               Quite easily.
   • Colonial Viper 2.2

     14 February 2011 at 4:25 pm

     I actually agree with you infused. China is propping Australia up. On the other hand, record commodity prices are propping us up. Knife cuts both ways mate.

     But even if the big Aussie crash happens in 18-36 months time, its better than sitting around being unemployed here in NZ on $220/wk, or being treated like a minimum wage serf by NZ businesses who do not value their workers, for that duration.

     edit: TEISG I see you made the same point 😀

     BUNJI – wow 6000 proactive people wiling to pay to look at jobs – but according to Key and English these highly motivated non-bludgers should have no problems finding good jobs here in NZ, yeah?
     • infused 2.2.1

       14 February 2011 at 10:45 pm

       Unexpected 😛 But yeah… China are already cutting back on imports from aussie. With the massive damage they have had there at the moment, 12 months it might not be so rosey.

       Going to aussie now will be for very short term gain – and probably not worth it.
3. tsmithfield 3

   14 February 2011 at 4:40 pm

   “I actually agree with you infused. China is propping Australia up. On the other hand, record commodity prices are propping us up. Knife cuts both ways mate.”

   Actually, you can have it both ways. As I mentioned the other day, China are building stupid things like entire cities with no one to live in them. This is creating huge demand for the things Auzzie produces through their mining industry. Demand for these products will crash when China turns the tap off.

   However, we are good at producing food (soft commodities). Last time I saw, people need to eat whatever happens. The demand for agriculture has been skyrocketing and is likely to keep on going that way as the world population expands.

   So, I think we are actually positioned better than Auzzie for the long term. We don’t have to worry about closing the gap with Australia because they will be closing the gap with us.

   But if you’re moving to Auzzie, don’t forget to pack your gummies. 🙂
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     14 February 2011 at 4:47 pm

     You do understand that our present farming practices are unsustainable and don’t benefit everyone don’t you?
     • tsmithfield 3.1.1

       14 February 2011 at 4:49 pm

       That is not to say that future practices won’t be sustainable.
       • The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 3.1.1.1

         14 February 2011 at 4:58 pm

         This is utter wishful thinking. If New Zealand’s farmers were able to act in a sustainable way, they would have done so by now – farming isn’t exactly a new industry.

         And what, pray tell, would be the trigger for this miraculous turn-around? Regulation? Climate catastrophe? Farmers developing a conscience? None of the above?
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2

         14 February 2011 at 5:43 pm

         You’re a confirmed optimist ts.

         As for China. You’re complaining about the productivity of the country which is likely going to beat the US back to the moon, and possibly a manned mission to Mars. Yes, excessive ventures no doubt, with very little use Earth-side. This is before we mention the 30 nuclear reactors that they intend to complete in the next 9 years. All requiring a metric shit-tonne of minerals from Australia.

         But what is a country with 300x NZ’s population to do? People have to be housed, fed, given new cars to purchase and tens of thousands of km of motorways to run them on. Or at least the equivalent in high speed rail. How many tonnes of steel in one kilometre of bullet train track? I’m guessing a few.

         Agree with you though, we have a fertile, rich food producing land here whereas Oz can’t decide if its a desert or a lake. So lets not sell this country off to foreigners for worthless USD OK because then its their crops and cows not ours.
         • ZeeBop 3.1.1.2.1

           14 February 2011 at 10:51 pm

           The reason they are rushing to the moon is because they’ve found water at the poles! And also maybe the fuel of the future, hydrogen isotopes. So while we sit here divvying up the mineral windfalls now, all we’ll have in the future is agriculture and tourism, so if you do want to get ahead you’d be off. Agrarian societies come last. The reason we continue to be improvised (from such a high starting point) is we continue to undervalue capital gains, making too profitable to talk up profit and sell out, or sit on capital and not risk it. We are woefully badly led in NZ.
     • The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 3.1.2

       14 February 2011 at 4:55 pm

       Exactly …. if I go across the Tasman I can get a job paying $1500/week working on a mine exporting copper ore to China. On the other hand, I could stay in New Zealand and get a job paying $550/week working on a dairy farm exporting milk powder to China. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out which is the better deal.

       And if the price of milk powder ever rises to the point where it rivals copper ore, the current National government will do everything in its power to make sure the profits flow to corporatised farm owners rather than farm workers.
4. Draco T Bastard 4

   14 February 2011 at 4:45 pm

   Over 6000 flock to Oz Job Expo

   An Australian job expo in Auckland where more than 6000 people lined-up to find out about jobs across the Tasman is further evidence New Zealanders have lost faith in National’s economic management, Labour leader Phil Goff says.

   More stuff like this please Labour and the rest of the left parties.
   • indiana 4.1

     14 February 2011 at 5:47 pm

     So what’s the new plan to stop people leaving? I actually think New Zealanders have lost faith in New Zealand, not whoever is in charge. Goff would be wise to consider how many Kiwis left during the 9 years of Labour.
5. burt 5

   14 February 2011 at 7:11 pm

   Must have been the lower tax rates and the program of low-middle income tax reduction in the last decade that made the difference for Aussie… Oh that and when they implemented a ‘rich prick’ tax rate they actually applied it to high earners rather than setting it at a level to keep the populus poor while the govt ran a surplus.
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     14 February 2011 at 7:38 pm

     Taxes are a secondary issue when it comes to growing a prosperous economy. Not a non-issue, but a secondary issue.
6. marty mars 6

   14 February 2011 at 7:21 pm

   It may be sacrilege but i don’t care if people go to aussie or anywhere – good luck to them (I’ve got cousins and friends who have done it) – i’m staying and making this country better. If you chase the dollar you will be forever moving and if that is the life you want – cool, that is your choice, but for me I choose to make that not an option.
   • lprent 6.1

     14 February 2011 at 7:35 pm

     That was my choice back in the late 1980s, 1990s, and naughties. Of course in my chosen field it didn’t matter that much. Even with telecom in the way, the development of international digital networks meant that I could develop and export from here
     • marty mars 6.1.1

       14 February 2011 at 9:11 pm

       I’m pleased you are getting better Lynn – kia kaha.

       I’ve got some IT friends who look back at Y2K with fondness – they were working in europe and making the mega-dollars – bit tougher for them now. There are sacrifices to be made by some in staying in this fair land.
7. Colonial Viper 7

   14 February 2011 at 7:36 pm

   If you chase the dollar you will be forever moving and if that is the life you want – cool, that is your choice,

   Which is exactly why claims that higher taxes will scare off the rich and make them all move to Switzerland or the Cook Islands makes me laugh.

   Yeah, they can go, good luck to them.

   Not forgetting that any jurisdiction that they move to could very well raise taxes on them in 12 months time as well hehehe.
8. tsmithfield 8

   14 February 2011 at 8:45 pm

   Here is an an interview with James Chanos, probably the world’s most famous short-seller. He is highly bearish on the Chinese economy. Quite an interesting interview.

   He claims in this interview that construction is now 70% of the Chinese economy. If that is the case, then there is a major collapse in the offing when that bubble bursts, as it surely will. Watch all those kiwis come scuttling back from Auzzie then.
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     14 February 2011 at 9:11 pm

     Still pushing Chanos?

     http://thestandard.org.nz/english-lashes-out/#comment-296870

     In Sept 2009 McKinsey & Co. saw private consumer demand as 36% of the Chinese economy.

     http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/mginews/unleashing_chinese_consumer.asp

     Estimates of export activity that I have seen range from 25%-50% of Chinese GDP (probably on the lower end now that demand from the West has been weakened by recession).

     Doing the math, I’m not sure how Chanos figures that construction is 70% of Chinese GDP.

     It should be noted that China is coming down hard on the backs of property speculators, not with total success, but they are working hard at firewalling the real economy off from any asset bubbles.
     • tsmithfield 8.1.1

       14 February 2011 at 10:34 pm

       Whatever figures you want to use, construction is definitely a fairly substantial part of the economy. The point being that sooner or later the Chinese will decide they have enough ghost cities, expensive apartments etc. When they stop building, the demand for hard commodities will drop through the floor.
       • SPC 8.1.1.1

         15 February 2011 at 12:57 am

         Maybe the labour plan is to use the available labour while they have it – they won’t have the spare labour for construction when the one child policy has its full harvest.
         • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1

           15 February 2011 at 1:04 am

           Ahhhh you crystallised my thinking quite nicely there when I couldn’t quite get it out. The Chinese Govt is known for its long view on this kind of thing.
9. infused 9

   14 February 2011 at 10:53 pm

   On people actually leaving here. I don’t think it’s just the money. I would have left too, not chasing money, but I really like Melbourne. I like the city and the people. It’s a nice place to live.

   I think people are right – some of the people leaving have lost faith in New Zealand.
   • Maynard J 9.1

     14 February 2011 at 11:45 pm

     Mmm too much provincial insular bigotry. Funny thing is you see it overseas, but it’s not as bad because they’re not your fellow countrymen & women displaying such attitudes.

     We have a solid welfare state and all some folk can see are ‘bludgers’

     We have a solid state-owned foundation to the economy and illiterates want to sell it to ‘mum and dad investors’ when they already own it, and a lot of people seem to think this is rational

     Our level of journalism is purely excruciating

     Hell, the All Whites did better than the defending champions at the world cup (yes, “the” world cup) and the local kiwi yokels call it ‘pc’ (none-too-opaque code for “I am too dumb to create a rational argument”)

     Sure, there are such idiots everywhere, but it’s less painful when they’re not ‘your’ idiots.

     I left for travel, money and to get away from these attitudes. Succeeded in two out of three. I should probably stop reading NZ news websites but it’s like a car crash – awful but you can’t help but look.
10. JD 10

    17 February 2011 at 12:52 pm

    “So what’s the new plan to stop people leaving? I actually think New Zealanders have lost faith in New Zealand, not whoever is in charge. Goff would be wise to consider how many Kiwis left during the 9 years of Labour.”

    True, if anyone has any ‘faith’ in a political party of any description then they are either sad idiots or fanatical ideologues.

    Apologies in advance for any offence to Standard contributors.

    [lprent: that is a pertintent comment (although probably misguided when you think the implications through), why would we care? It wasn’t the outright trolling that has drawn my attention to you in the past. ]
11. JD 11

    17 February 2011 at 5:40 pm

    I wasn’t asking you to care it was just a comment. Sites like this have a certain entertainment value as a frontrow seat to psychopathy but are hardly the stuff of deep intellectual discourse so it pays not to think too hard.

    Have you thought about the implications of having faith in a political figure? One only has to look at the rise of the religious right in the U.S to see that come to fruition. Yay.

    Well if you all have ‘faith’ in Phil Goff to lead NZ our of the current recession good for you. By the looks of it he’ll need divine intervention to win the election so I’s say faith is probably a nice description of what is required.

    @ Infused: yep, I’m moving too in a couple of weeks to Sydney for lifestyle. Having extensively traveled abroad in the past four years its always struck me how dull and provincial NZ is. Now that the law degree is finished its audi for me.

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