Open mike 01/09/2023

43 comments on “Open mike 01/09/2023 ”

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1. bwaghorn 1

   1 September 2023 at 6:46 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/300957731/newsable-taxing-offshore-casinos-easier-said-than-done-says-expert

   Nationals tax and spend plan is getting completely dismantled
   • Tony Veitch 1.1

     1 September 2023 at 7:47 am

     Kieran McAnulty said that the maximum they could hope for taxing offshore gambling would be $40 million – $100 million short of the Natz magic figures.

     Then there's this: it shows 60% or more of foreign buyers would be exempt from the 15% tax.

     https://twitter.com/NatlClownshow/status/1697196976021135383

     (not sure how to post this other than putting up the url)
     • Psyclingleft.Always 1.1.1

       1 September 2023 at 8:08 am

       About that. We kinda know that "most News" is not gonna raise that up.

       Labour…and the Left are going to have to get much more vocal in push back…and Fight back.

       Things like Willis and Luxon simpering about Nic's kids getting real icecream with her tax break.

       https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30-08-2023/#comment-1966352

       FFS.
       • Psyclingleft.Always 1.1.1.1

         1 September 2023 at 8:12 am

         And…..

         The opposition party is offering up its tax cuts and other changes within its "Back Pocket Boost" package, aimed at what it calls the "squeezed middle". On the face of it many New Zealanders, particularly families and households earning around the $120,000 a year mark, could benefit substantially.

         However, dig a little deeper and there are some fishhooks that may take off the some of the gloss – namely, scrapping half price and free public transport and little extra direct support for low income families.

         The package also has to be viewed alongside what people would not be getting – as a counter-factual – that could make a serious dent in that extra income.

         The most significant change – one certainly not highlighted in the document or presentation – is the removal of all public transport subsidies; that would also apply to those on low incomes or with disabilities. If a family relies on the bus and has a couple of kids travelling to school and back, those extra costs would eat into any tax relief delivered through threshold changes, and low income whānau would be particularly hard hit.

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496917/the-sticking-points-how-does-national-s-tax-plan-stack-up

         RNZ has it…how many others? Labour especially needs to push back on this and others…
         • AB 1.1.1.1.1

           1 September 2023 at 8:32 am

           It certainly looks like a redistribution from the bottom of the pile to the middle. With the gains to the to the top disguised by the fact that they dont get bigger tax cuts than the others. Instead they get the promise of increasing value of their housing portfolios as the market gets heated up. And sneakily, the house price inflation that rewards the top erodes the benefits given to the middle, unless they already own a home.

           Looks like the Nats have just got a bit trickier in how exactly they redistribute wealth upwards – which is always their sacred mission.
           • Psyclingleft.Always 1.1.1.1.1.1

             1 September 2023 at 8:43 am

             Same as ever….good cartoon depiction of

             https://natlib.govt.nz/records/37118919

             As I said in other threads….the Rich…are but a small number. ( 1% ers?)

             We must surely outnumber them? Got to get motivated ( I know we are: )….

             and out vote them.
             • Shanreagh …

               1 September 2023 at 9:15 am

               Good link PLA.

               Actually this trickledown rubbish has been with us since the mid 1980s and the smiling assassin's face could easily be replaced by Ruthless Ruth's and the sense would be unchanged.
         • ianmac 1.1.1.1.2

           1 September 2023 at 10:24 am

           As an aside do you think the photo of Luxon on the RNZ site looks remarkably like Mussolini?
           • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1.2.1

             1 September 2023 at 10:54 am

             Hmm, maybe needs a balcony? However I dont see him as fascist….however some of his potential "likely lads"..IMO yep for sure jackboot wannabees.
           • Sanctuary 1.1.1.1.2.2

             1 September 2023 at 11:04 am

             I reckon he looks more like a startled Xmas ham.
         • joe90 1.1.1.1.3

           1 September 2023 at 1:33 pm

           And…..

           ..the squeezed middle few…

           

           https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F42OQspaQAAdg43?format=jpg&name=medium
           • Chris 1.1.1.1.3.1

             1 September 2023 at 1:56 pm

             How does luxon's claim about the "squeezed middle" stack up? So to sort this out those on higher incomes yet again get a ton more than those on the lowest incomes. If luxon was really concerned about squeezes surely he'd want to deal with the “crushed bottom”? But no, what he does is crush the bottom even more. Idiot.
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               1 September 2023 at 2:12 pm

               Not a lot of National Party voters among the squeezed bottom-feeders.

               On National’s Tax Cuts [31 August 2023]
               Revealingly, National’s chart setting out the potential income gains has omitted everyone earning below $30,000 as if they don’t exist – and that’s an accurate reflection of how the “bottom feeders” simply don’t register on the centre-right’s voter radar. So much so that anyone earning below $45,000 a year would receive only $2 a week extra from National’s tax relief package, and nothing at all from its fiddling with the tax thresholds and from tweaks to the Independent Earner Tax Credit, to Working for Families and to childcare rebates.

               Christopher Luxon explains his 'bottom feeding' comments

               Today's classroom visitor is Mr Luxon from the National Party
               MR LUXON: If you were naughty you went to boot camp and got scared into being an ordinary hardworking New Zealander. Or you became a bottom-feeder. Don’t become bottom-feeders, boys and girls.
               • Chris …

                 1 September 2023 at 3:45 pm

                 Also, the minimum wage is creeping up to what used to be a high income bracket. So instead of lifting the threshold Labour decides to make even more New Zealanders "significantly dependent on the state" (to use a phrase the right introduced in the 90s) by widening WFF thresholds. On this logic it won't be long before every low income worker falls into the high tax bracket while at the same time qualifying for welfare.
                 • Shanreagh …

                   1 September 2023 at 5:00 pm

                   I'm not really knowledgeable about tax brackets and tax bracket creep but what is the big problem with altering the brackets? Is it to do with loss of tax 'income'?

                   Surely it is a simple matter to work out how the current range of taxes could be altered and by how much to produce X result. it just seems that there is a reluctance to do this.

                   If I had anything to do with it brackets would be moved in line with CPI or inflation, whichever produced the most fair result to payers and Govt. Instead it is left and left and left then becomes a big deal with possibly big fiscal implications.

                   But has anyone got the good oil on why there is this reluctance?
             • grafton gully …

               1 September 2023 at 8:19 pm

               The "crushed bottom" don't vote.

               "Unemployed people were less likely to vote compared with employed people and those not in the labour force. In the 2011 General Election, 35.2 percent of unemployed people did not vote. This was almost double the percentage of those not in the labour force (17.8 percent) and employed people (19.9 percent). People with personal incomes of $30,000 or less and incomes between $30,001 and $70,000 (22.8 percent and 20.3 percent respectively) were more likely not to vote than people with incomes above $70,000 (9.5 percent)."

               https://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/civil-and-political-rights/voter-turnout.html
           • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1.3.2

             2 September 2023 at 8:48 am

             For those on the low end…the NActs will use their special squeezer/grater. Set to fine chop.
   • Red Blooded One 1.2

     1 September 2023 at 8:12 am

     And on TVNZ 1 Breakfast show

     David Carter highlighting Nicola Willis's Billion $ Hole

     Fri 1st Sep 41:55 min in.
     • Red Blooded One 1.2.1

       1 September 2023 at 12:09 pm

       Oops, of course I meant David Parker. Doh.
2. Stephen D 2

   1 September 2023 at 10:43 am

   From The Conversation. It’s about the cycling situation in Australia, but very much pertains here.

   https://theconversation.com/fewer-of-us-are-cycling-heres-how-we-can-reverse-the-decline-212260?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20September%201%202023%20-%202725027541&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20September%201%202023%20-%202725027541+CID_1f049aa492542c336eb923ea1196d119&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Fewer%20of%20us%20are%20cycling%20%20heres%20how%20we%20can%20reverse%20the%20decline
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1

     1 September 2023 at 11:09 am

     Hi. Well thats kinda timely…I had just been watchin a vid about city-shaping expert Henriette Vamberg.

     https://www.nzta.govt.nz/about-us/news-and-media/updates-from-our-leaders/future-new-zealand-better-together-with-henriette-vamberg/

     And Copenhagen….despite which I had thought, had bicycled since they were invented : )….apparently didnt ! Cars were the new..and cycling was kinda discriminated against.."actively".

     Bit like the Netherlands (another I thought Cycled since Adam had a bike! )….until

     The trend away from the bicycle and towards motorised transport only began to decrease in the 1970s when Dutch people took to the streets to protest against the high number of child deaths on the roads: in some years over 500 children were killed in collisions with motor vehicles. This protest movement, initiated by Maartje van Putten (later an MEP), was known as the Stop de Kindermoord ("Stop the Child Murder")

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Netherlands

     Copenhagen….Bicycle Friendly : )

     75% of Copenhageners cycling throughout the year.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Cycling

     Henriette Vamberg has some great Ideas. If only…..

     Its all possible. Lets do it !
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1

       1 September 2023 at 11:22 am

       Could..and should be NZ…

       The city's urban planning authorities continue to take full account of these priorities. Special attention is given both to climate issues and efforts to ensure maximum application of low-energy standards. Priorities include sustainable drainage systems, recycling rainwater, green roofs and efficient waste management solutions. In city planning, streets and squares are to be designed to encourage cycling and walking rather than driving.

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Environmental_planning
     • ianmac 2.1.2

       1 September 2023 at 5:10 pm

       In Ho Chi Mehn City most people biked but as the economy improved the city became full of motorbikes. Now the further growth has seen a shift towards cars. There is no way that the city can cope with as many cars as bikes were.

       Going backwards?
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.2.1

         1 September 2023 at 6:10 pm

         Well..Indeed. Like China…the "upwardly mobile" ..become immobile in gridlock traffic jams. Air pollution toxic ..

         However..with the jams…the toxic smog an all. Change is again…

         China was once considered to be the "Kingdom of the Bicycle,” with bikes dominating city streets across the country, but over the past four decades, China’s dramatic economic prosperity and urbanization has seen many people move to motor vehicles as their primary means of transport, contributing to a marked deterioration in air quality.

         https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/06/1039751
   • Ad 2.2

     1 September 2023 at 2:20 pm

     In case anyone hasn't noticed, urban cycleways in a country as addicted to cars as this, is almost always a massive public and bureaucratic war.

     The biggest and most successful cycleways New Zealand has done in the last three years are all off-suburbia:

     • Auckland State Highway 16 Henderson to downtown, parallel to state highway
     • Auckland State Highway 1 down south, parallel to state highway
     • Auckland New Lynn to State Highway 16, mostly parallel to railway tracks
     • Mt Wellington to Remuera parallel to the rail tracks
     • Dunedin to Port Chalmers and Dunedin to Portobello
     • Wellington to Petone (still being built) parallel to State Highway 1

     Even a cycling friendly city like Palmerston North has had fights about them.

     Anyone who blithely suggests we just need more cycleways, had better come with thousands of supporters, millions in cash, and courage of steel. These are some of the hardest civic fights I've seen.
3. Ad 3

   1 September 2023 at 11:01 am

   I would like to hear of an economic plan to rebuild our export sector, from any party.

   With farmers padlocking their wallets after the milk price collapse, our rural economy its towns and its people are going to suffer hard.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/300945203/dairy-farmers-slam-their-wallets-shut-after-fonterra-announced-the-farmgate-milk-price-drop

   Apparently Fonterra are going to find $1b of savings, but only implement it over multiple years.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/fonterra-aims-for-1b-cost-savings-as-inflation-dairy-price-dive-bite-into-long-term-targets/CIAJRGYOANDZ5PY6OMYKX7UQ4A/#:~:text=Dairy%20juggernaut%20Fonterra%20is%20developing,short%20and%20long%20term%20targets.

   As a reminder, two years ago in 2021, 108 executives at Fonterra were paid more than $500,000 in 2021, and 16 received more than $1 million. Its directors received at least $175,000 each.
   • arkie 3.1

     1 September 2023 at 11:32 am

     From the Greens' full Agriculture and Rural Affairs policy:

     5. Increasing Sector Resilience

     Issues

     The agricultural sector is increasingly vulnerable to the impacts of climate change, geopolitical trade headwinds and biosecurity incursions. Increasing climate resilience in the sector through adaptation measures and sustainable practice, as well as diversifying and adding long-term value to our export profile, will ensure Aotearoa New Zealand protects its ability to trade world-leading primary products for generations to come.

     Actions

     A. A Fair Approach to Trade

     5.1. Ensure that international trade arrangements enable the relevant points in this policy (see our Trade policy)

     5.2. Support research and development aimed at adding value to primary products.

     5.3. Encourage domestic processing and value-add for products grown and produced in New Zealand.

     5.4. Support farmers to trade on Aotearoa New Zealand’s environmental brand by continuing to use our clean, green image to market New Zealand produce.

     5.5. Encourage all food and fibre products intended for export as 'Product of Aotearoa New Zealand’ to meet or exceed minimum sustainability and animal welfare standards.

     5.6. Work to adjust for "food miles" by supporting farmers to reduce emissions released during production and by working to educate overseas consumers about the total environmental impact of the Aotearoa New Zealand goods they purchase.

     5.7. Support lower-emissions and clean energy transport options for Aotearoa New Zealand exports, including shipping.

     5.8. Ensure consumers can make informed choices to support local food and other agricultural products by supporting mandatory country of origin labelling for all singleingredient imported agricultural and horticultural products.

     5.9. Support mandatory certification of imported produce to show that it complies with minimum environmental, safety and health standards along the lines of the current European Union directives.

     5.10. Support and improve ways of communicating to the public about the value and importance of buying local.

     5.11. Enact empowering legislation to support local food production for local use and local food security, including financial incentives.

     https://www.greens.org.nz/agriculture_and_rural_affairs_policy

     Production for chasing commodity price hasn't been good for rural communities,

     There is also the software and digital services industries which should be further encouraged as they are growing sectors with significant offshore demand.
     • Ad 3.1.1

       1 September 2023 at 1:32 pm

       Great as it goes.

       Everything except 5.6 and 5.10 is being done already.

       I'm not sure what 5.11 actually means.

       As soon as I see a National or Labour trade policy it would be worth doing a comparison with the three.
       • arkie 3.1.1.1

         1 September 2023 at 2:07 pm

         5.11 will have to be developed further in discussion I'd imagine but essentially would involve incentivising or funding more smaller market garden style local production, similar to OMG https://www.uptown.co.nz/omg

         Greens Trade policy is here: https://www.greens.org.nz/trade_and_foreign_investment_policy
       • Shanreagh 3.1.1.2

         1 September 2023 at 2:13 pm

         5.2, 5.3 and 5.4 also being done and have been for many years, well at least since I worked in Trade NZ back in the early 2000s.

         In fact there has been commentary over the years about the 'clean, green' and 'NZ Pure' signage and wordage when we are fighting nitrates in our rivers and cattle eating and birthing on wall to wall mud.

         There is also the software and digital services industries which should be further encouraged as they are growing sectors with significant offshore demand.

         I think you will find that Trade NZ has been working with entrepreneurs on this at least since the early 2000s and even then we were getting bangs for bucks with selling specialist accounting software for law firms into the UK and baggage handling systems into multiple overseas airports.

         Perhaps rather than letting us think that these are all new ideas it might be better to have words such as 'continue' or 'add to the….'
         • arkie 3.1.1.2.1

           1 September 2023 at 3:11 pm

           You have quoted my own thoughts, missed that I have said 'further encouraged' (i.e. continuing/adding to), and then attempted to school the Greens/me regarding your inference of supposed claims of novelty?

           I have supplied a party policy document as the OP requested, I imagine it is up to those that are claiming certain policy points are already done to provide the evidence that is so. There is also the possibility that the Greens intend to do the same thing via a different method/mechanism, therefore continue/add to could be not strictly or entirely correct.
4. SapphireGem 4

   1 September 2023 at 1:02 pm

   In the latest newsletter from my son's primary school, the principal reported that in recent weeks, 15% of the pupils were absent due to families deciding to take their children on holidays during term time. A number of people I know with children at various schools have reported a similar trend.

   Despite complaining about the economy, these people are clearly financially able to have family holidays within New Zealand and overseas. Their choice to do so skews schools' absenteeism statistics. National can't blame the Labour Government if people decide to take their children on holidays during term time…
   • Ad 4.1

     1 September 2023 at 2:12 pm

     Crikey lucky them. I haven't managed to get out of this joint since 2017.
     • Sanctuary 4.1.1

       1 September 2023 at 2:40 pm

       Aitutaki is nice at this time of the year.
   • Shanreagh 4.2

     1 September 2023 at 2:22 pm

     Well back in the olden days, my father who was an accountant/company secretary and who worked over most of the long Christmas holidays on Race course and A & P grounds courses asked if he could take us on holiday that extended for one week extra in August….working for himself he let his staff take the first week off.

     He had to make application that had to go to the head Office in Wellington for permission. This was for a family holiday, staying in cabins in NZ. We did this twice as it was a bit of a process. Times have changed obviously.

     I have heard of families who go overseas with their children each holidays and seek to have different times and go away in term time because they are seeking cheaper fares. This is seen as a good enough reason to give permission, apparently. I can't help feeling that there is a bit of entitled thinking going on.
     • Belladonna 4.2.1

       1 September 2023 at 3:36 pm

       My experience (anecdata, sample of one school) is that permission is not given – but the family take the holiday time anyway, and it's recorded as an 'unjustified absence'.

       I've certainly had to make extensive submissions (in one case to the School Board) about out-of-school-but-educational opportunities that my teen has had. Leave for sports representation is automatically granted – but other activities need special pleading….
   • Stephen D 4.3

     1 September 2023 at 3:00 pm

     As a teacher we find it really annoying. The kids never do the online work set, and hardly ever catch up. Just more gaps to fill further down the line.
   • Belladonna 4.4

     1 September 2023 at 3:31 pm

     While it remains 'penalty free' to do this – families are going to continue doing so.
     Schools rarely (if ever) impose any consequences on either students or parents for pulling kids out of school for 'unjustified absences' (a.k.a. family holidays).

     Many of the private schools deliberately have 3 week inter-term breaks – acknowledging that families are going to take holidays away – and make up with longer school days during term time. Of course, that won't work if every school does it – it will simply extend the high-air-fare period to 3 weeks instead of two.

     There are consequences that schools could impose – but they seem reluctant to do so…..
   • AB 4.5

     1 September 2023 at 10:28 pm

     Also partly attributable to Air NZ price gouging during school holidays. But apparently this is a law of nature, when more people want to do something, magically the price of that thing just increases. Leading physicists believe there may be a totally new and unknown force-field in the universe behind this phenomenon that no-one has yet investigated or described.
5. Shanreagh 5

   1 September 2023 at 2:32 pm

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shelly-bay-development-cancelled/LY5EZTC4JZGWTA354JLPXNSDNA/

   Sir Peter Jackson and Dame Fran Walsh have bought Shelly Bay after the collapse of the ghastly housing develpoments, brutalist style, proposed in a joint venture with the Wellington Company, Ian Cassels.

   Probably a loud cheer going up all round Wellington. Rejigged water, sewage etc was required for the develpoment that had to be paid for at great cost by WCC.

   Returning land to native cover, arts facilities sounds fantastic rather than an enclave for the wealthy.

   Peter Jackson owns other land on the peninsula that is being restored. .
   • bwaghorn 5.1

     1 September 2023 at 5:37 pm

     Is money bags Pete gonna build 300 plus houses somewhere else, or just a monument to himself?
     • Shanreagh 5.1.1

       2 September 2023 at 7:18 pm

       Revegate it hopefully.

       Not really suitable for houses. There are better places closer to town than Shelly Bay.

       Not really all that many low-cost houses that were going to be built there. Cassel's aim was for a place in Wellington that is like Sausalito near San Francisco.

       I think people living there would soon get tired of the endless procession of cars that pass through on the weekends etc. We'd get people wanting to put a stop to it, it is on the ever popular 'round the bays' route.

       Revegetate, restore, keep/restore the 'down home' ice cream shop & cafe (Chocolate Frog), have some art facilities, some informal recreation facilities where families can picnic/play games etc. (pretty much what Wellingtonians have been using the place for since the Airforce moved out)
6. Ad 6

   1 September 2023 at 2:46 pm

   Hearty congratulations to Nga iwi O Taranaki and Minister Little and all the negotiating teams on both sides for this really-late-in-the-term settlement about Mount Taranaki.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/132855713/historymaking-moment-sees-taranaki-maunga-claim-finally-settled

   Very cool to see yet another co-governance arrangement signed up but this time with Department of Conservation retaining the operational responsibility, and keeping it fully as a National Park.
   Hopefully they’ve all learned their lessons from the dreadful outcomes to the land and forest from the Uruwera settlement.

   Massive congratulations to Mr Tuuta and all his whanau.

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