Open mike 02/10/2023

102 comments on “Open mike 02/10/2023 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   2 October 2023 at 7:28 am

   Watched Winston responding to Ryan Bridge in interview just now on AM. Went well. Load of fun all around. He's totally on the ball at present. Bet it goes down a hoot with the yokels (if they can figure out how to get the re-run online). Kingmaker.

   He even cited an instance of agreeing with Seymour to confound expectations. Doubt if the electorate wants to give him total control though – just enough to spoil the expectations of the two sprats he'll be having to teach a thing or two sometime eventually, after voters deliver murk on the day…
   • pat 1.1

     2 October 2023 at 9:22 am

     Winston thrives on 'Don't hate the player, hate the game.'

     Support for NZ First is not an endorsement of Winston or anything he says but rather a protest at the whole nonsense….how large that protest ends up being will depend on how motivated the 'protesters' are to vote….I suspect a larger portion wont even bother to protest, they are resigned.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   2 October 2023 at 7:41 am

   James explains Luxon's fall-back option:

   it's not up to me. It's not up to Marama. It's not even up to our caucus. It is for Green Party members who they will support into Government."

   https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/01/shaw-would-be-rude-not-to-pick-up-luxon-coalition-phone-call/

   So Lux would have to prove his ability as a deal-maker. Only viable if Seymour refuses to do what Winston tells him. Lux needs to have an alternative to switch to, which means prior planning for Plan B, which means press the teal button on his option module.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1

     2 October 2023 at 7:53 am

     Are you still pushing that blue/Green BS ? Do you honestly think that would fly? Beside the fact that the Nats arent even..a "teal" Environment group.

     Give it a rest aye?
     • Dennis Frank 2.1.1

       2 October 2023 at 8:23 am

       No I'm not pushing it. I'm a bystander commenting on what the media are exploring for our election outcome.
       • Barfly 2.1.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 8:46 am

         "what the media are exploring for our election outcome."

         nah

         "what the media are exploring click baiting for our election outcome."

         FIFY
         • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1.1.1

           2 October 2023 at 9:33 pm

           100%
   • observer 2.2

     2 October 2023 at 7:54 am

     Oh, the Teal Fantasy again.

     National and Labour (MPs, if not wider party) could reach a minimalist but just about feasible agreement, if they really had to. Obviously they won't try, but that's for internal political reasons in both parties, not policy reasons.

     National and the Greens are much further apart than that. A non-starter. Only brought up every 3 years by bored commentators.
     • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

       2 October 2023 at 8:26 am

       Usually I'd agree with that. Currently it looms as a plausible outcome of negotiation failure. Realistic if the troika is dysfunctional. Since it has yet to function, it's easy to envisage the feasibility of that.
       • Bearded Git 2.2.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 8:50 am

         It might be an option in your mind Dennis, but nobody else with any credibility takes it seriously.

         If the troika Nat/ACT/NZF gains 60+ seats but is dysfunctional we are in for another election.
         • Dennis Frank 2.2.1.1.1

           2 October 2023 at 8:58 am

           I suspect you mean leftists, but that's cool. I won't be the only non-partisan seeing it this way! I'm enjoying the discomfort on the right that the media are now generating.
     • Mike the Lefty 2.2.2

       2 October 2023 at 10:42 am

       The Greens and National did work together on the "Warm up New Zealand – Heat Smart programme in the earlier years of the John Key government but things have changed considerably; different leadership plus changed social and political environment.
       • Roy Cartland 2.2.2.1

         2 October 2023 at 10:51 am

         Of course they can work together. They just won't be able to form a government in any way, unless National drastically changes its regressive policies. The GP could still vote in favour of good legislation, were Nat ever to put any forward.
3. observer 3

   2 October 2023 at 8:02 am

   Luxon is all over the place this morning (like most mornings). Open mouth, make it up. He can't even answer basic questions:

   Election 2023: Watch live – National’s Christopher Luxon faces Newstalk ZB’s Leaders Breakfast – NZ Herald

   He's focused on the big issues …

   Luxon was frustrated that the names of government entities were "Māori first and English second". He said he didn't mind having bilingual names but he thought English should be first, given it was the most commonly spoken language in New Zealand.
   • AB 3.1

     2 October 2023 at 8:48 am

     Was Luxon asked what the functional effect was of putting Maori names first? How does putting Maori names first affect the ability of the said government entities to fulfill their particular responsibilities?

     Because the answer to this question is "it doesn't", the shameless opportunist should be laughed off the stage for not being a serious person, not being the heroic CEO with a remorseless focus on delivery*, but a shabby, half-hearted participant in the national cannibalism of culture wars.

     *delivery. Luxon blathers on about delivery; but is never specific about what gets delivered. However, we all know that for 90% of us it's a sh…t sandwich.
     • Barfly 3.1.1

       2 October 2023 at 8:51 am

       And the National Party’s greatest failing?

       They didn't even get bread for their shit sandwich
       • Incognito 3.1.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 9:40 am

         Let them eat cake!

         
   • Mac1 3.2

     2 October 2023 at 8:53 am

     Wales and Ireland would say differently.

     "Researchers in Wales found that motorists’ reading comprehension time saw no increase when English was displayed above Welsh on bilingual signage."

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/132174311/what-happened-when-ireland-got-bilingual-road-signs

     Ir's Luxon dog-whistling to the likes of the pakeha Auckland woman who came into our NZLP electorate HQ who said; "I'm not a racist, but….."
   • ianmac 3.3

     2 October 2023 at 1:54 pm

     Yes observer. I struggled to watch the whole shambles. Very few questions answered. Usual bluster. Heaven help us.

     https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/christopher-luxon-listen-to-full-leaders-breakfast-with-national-leader-talking-economy-tax-plan-education-healthcare-and-crime/
4. Dennis Frank 4

   2 October 2023 at 8:36 am

   I'd never heard of it but an Auckland councillor mentioned it on the AM show:

   Definitions from Oxford Languages … noun: situationism

   1. the theory that human behaviour is determined by surrounding circumstances rather than by personal qualities.
   2. a revolutionary political theory which regards modern industrial society as being inevitably oppressive and exploitative.

   Makes sense that behaviour responds to situations but I doubt that discounting free will bv implication will ever work in practice, so cross out #1 as unrealistic. Inasmuch as being born into a capitalist society can be typically experienced as oppression and exploitation, fair to say many will rate #2 as realistic.

   However the councillor mentioned it in a third sense: as a type of interactive relationship with another person, with mutually agreed terms. So looks like the meme is trending.
5. dv 5

   2 October 2023 at 8:43 am

   Did Natz calc on tax relief

   We get $4.60 A WEEK WOW.

   ​​​​​​​
   • AB 5.1

     2 October 2023 at 8:59 am

     Excellent dv. In 29 years you'll have the $7k you need to make up for losing the clean car discount on that flash Tesla you have been eyeing up. Invest it wisely, and you could bring that time down by a year or two.
     • dv 5.1.1

       2 October 2023 at 9:05 am

       
   • Incognito 5.2

     2 October 2023 at 10:06 am

     How many ice creams is that?
     • dv 5.2.1

       2 October 2023 at 10:08 am

       One
       • bwaghorn 5.2.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 10:28 am

         No money for a DVD rental then!!! Willis lied to us!!!
         • dv 5.2.1.1.1

           2 October 2023 at 1:10 pm

           I could save for that BW
         • lprent 5.2.1.1.2

           2 October 2023 at 9:55 pm

           Are there DVDs to rent still? I haven't seen a video rental place for at least a decade.

           Think of it by the month as a minimal Netflix account.
6. Janice 6

   2 October 2023 at 8:53 am

   Among all Luxon/Williss's statements there are two that I can't understand. Willis is going to get beneficiaries into 'super' community jobs and Luxon is going to make many public servants redundant – replacing one lot of beneficiaries with another. Also in Luxon's first 100 days there doesn't seem to be any allowance for the days needed to negotiate with Winston.
   • AB 6.1

     2 October 2023 at 9:11 am

     Hmm. I doubt that "super community jobs" (if they existed at all) would be public servants as we normally understand the term. More likely exceptionally cheap, insecure, casual work allowing the private sector to lower wage costs. But who knows with these people. They are allowed to get away with so much nonsense they aren't even trying to be serious any more.
   • observer 6.2

     2 October 2023 at 9:15 am

     The election result is on Nov 3. Seat numbers usually change from election night. Then negotiations have to be concluded, then MPs are sworn in, then Parliament starts. So, next to nothing will be done before Xmas.

     All this "first 100 days" talk is just part of the bluster … "I'm in charge, I'll hit the ground running". It sounds like action, and relies on the media lazily repeating empty claims instead of knowing how the process works.
     • dv 6.2.1

       2 October 2023 at 9:18 am

       AND 'negotiations" will take how long?

       1 day 2 days 7 days 20 days ………. 50 days
       • observer 6.2.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 9:26 am

         If Nat+ACT have a guaranteed majority on election night (large enough to be immune from special votes, when Nats have historically lost seats) then negotiations between the 2 parties would take place while waiting for the result.

         So they basically need 63, and even then they would want to talk to NZF, as insurance. The nightmare for National is that NZF are 4.9% on election night but get 5% in the final result, making the negotiations obsolete.

         Not an impossible outcome, at all.
     • Dennis Frank 6.2.2

       2 October 2023 at 9:21 am

       I suspect the media will start to focus on Winston's post-election track record sometime soon. That may force him to smarten up – but in physics the three-body orbital problem remains in the too-hard basket and I bet the analog applies to the right of politics here & now! They need time to converge.
     • AB 6.2.3

       2 October 2023 at 9:25 am

       For anybody who worked in the private sector during the 90s and was unfortunate enough to have American bosses parachuted in from a parent company, the 100-day thing sounds familiar. The Yanks loved to demand 30-day, 60-day, and 90-day plans and execution timelines. These times weren't even predicated on cobbling together a bogus, over-simplified Gantt chart based on estimates carefully garnered from the nether regions of middle management. No, they came in an unhygienically direct fashion straight from the nether regions of the boss. But all that misses the point – these 30, 60, 90-day fantasies weren't plans at all – they were assertions that "you are all lazy sods and you'll do as you are told". They were statements of absolute power.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.2.3.1

         2 October 2023 at 11:04 am

         Tim Gurner ..Australian "CEO" and entitled jerk ..ripped out for that here..by Americans who know full well how those assholes are.
     • lprent 6.2.4

       2 October 2023 at 9:57 pm

       Could make Guy Fawkes night more interesting.
   • Belladonna 6.3

     2 October 2023 at 9:26 am

     For most of the people to whom this policy is pitched – the vision of currently highly-paid bureaucrats driving a bus for $30/hr – is not a down-side.

     It's highly unlikely that many, if any, of the people who might be made redundant would be getting the unemployment benefit. Stand down, and mortgage/rent requirements will push them into getting another job (albeit with less salary and benefits) ASAP.

     The long term beneficiaries are not those who've just lost a job, but rather those who have lots of other issues which make getting a job harder.
   • Peter 6.4

     2 October 2023 at 9:41 am

     Don't forget the biggies. From their announcements.

     "National will ban cell phone use at school.

     The presumption is cell phones are off and away all day, including during breaks between class,

     The ban will be implemented via regulations the Government can establish."

     Maybe Act will get some of the gurus from their 'Getting rid of Regulations' team to formulate the necessary regulations.
     • bwaghorn 6.4.1

       2 October 2023 at 4:41 pm

       Just spent an evening with someone working in the education sector with several schools, some teachers have kids using their phs in class , to engage them with topics!
   • psych nurse 6.5

     2 October 2023 at 10:54 am

     Redundant = redundancy payments = no savings = employment court backlog = more cost to taxpayer = court costs and penalty payments to plaintif = reinstment= full circle.
     • Barfly 6.5.1

       2 October 2023 at 12:42 pm

       I seem to remember an ACT statement about removing reinstatements as an employment dispute remedy
7. Chris Clark 7

   2 October 2023 at 9:26 am

   I have an idea.

   How about NZ adopt a federal constitution with our regions becoming Aussie/US style states, Canadian style provinces or Swiss style cantons? Central government would only look after immigration, trade, foreign affairs and defence.

   Some examples could be Auckland could become a city-state province with very few trade restrictions, befitting its position as New Zealand’s major trading centre.

   Wellington could become a federal capital like the ACT in Australia, or Washington DC in America, in which representatives of the provinces would meet to pass federal laws. It may or may not also have a government just for Wellington Province. This would ensure there was a minimum of disruption for Wellington and for the remaining central government in the transition to decentralisation.

   Tuhoe, who have always claimed independence on the grounds that they did not sign the Treaty of Waitangi, could become a self-governing province. They would only be subject to federal law, and would otherwise have the freedom to set their own cultural agenda.

   Nelson and Westland provinces could legalise cannabis and grow it on a wide scale, as well as legalise cannabis cafes that serviced both the local and the tourist markets.

   What do you reckon?
   • Adrian 7.1

     2 October 2023 at 9:57 am

     Nelson and the Coast couldnt organise a toke-up in a dope factory, ffs they cant even get water to go where they want it.
   • Dennis Frank 7.2

     2 October 2023 at 10:16 am

     Your design was envisaged in GP discussions & policy submissions just over 30 years ago – stuck in my memory. Grass-roots framing was used. Later, bio-regionalism became the focus (in the 1990s I think).

     So I agree that enhanced local govt is feasible, with regions emerging for common -interest decision-making. It would have to be self-organising from the people though.

     There's a way to blend that with top-down elitism if the elite are genuine in caring for the people. Negotiators could proceed on the basis of intelligent design.
8. Tiger Mountain 8

   2 October 2023 at 9:30 am

   Come on acting PM Carmel–make a Cap’n’s Call!

   Announce a Wealth Tax & Basic Income…and win this election…
9. tsmithfield 9

   2 October 2023 at 9:33 am

   Now that Chippy has covid, I wonder what will happen re the remaining leader's debates. The final debate is 12th of October. I think there is a Press debate this week.

   I doubt that Chippy will be able to participate in the debate this week. Technically Chippy will have got through the 7 day Covid isolation period by then. But, I imagine he still might be feeling quite under the weather by then.

   My suggestion is that the leaders debates be replaced with deputy leaders debates. So, Willis vs Davis.
   • Tiger Mountain 9.1

     2 October 2023 at 9:40 am

     My suggestion smithy is at #8.
   • Incognito 9.2

     2 October 2023 at 10:32 am

     Technically Chippy will have got through the 7 day Covid isolation period by then.

     Nope, that’s incorrect, actually.
     • tsmithfield 9.2.1

       2 October 2023 at 10:48 am

       I guess you are right, given that the mandatory isolation period no longer applies. And it is now recommended to isolate for five days. So, point taken.

       But, I guess it is a moot point. I know people who have still felt absolute crap weeks after, even though they have technically recovered from Covid. So, the key thing is how well that Chippy will feel for the last debate, and whether there should be contingency for that in case he doesn't feel up to it.
       • Incognito 9.2.1.1

         2 October 2023 at 11:03 am

         Actually, I guess I’m right too.

         I guess it’s moot discussing your wishful thunking.
         • tsmithfield 9.2.1.1.1

           2 October 2023 at 11:45 am

           I guess it’s moot discussing your wishful thunking.

           Maybe, for the final TVNZ debate next week. But, certainly not for the Press debate this week, where contingencies are already being considered. One contingency being considered is moving the date of the debate. I guess that would depend on whether Chippy will be well enough for that possibility, and whether it can be squeezed into the schedule.

           The feeling in my bones is that people are wetting themselves with excitement at the prospect of another electrifying leader's debate. So they may be bitterly disappointed if there is no debate as per the schedule, and may find the prospect of a debate between the intellectual heavy-weights, Willis and Davis, an equally mouth watering prospect.
           • Incognito 9.2.1.1.1.1

             2 October 2023 at 3:46 pm

             Chris chickened out.

             https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-christopher-luxon-pulls-out-of-major-leaders-debate-national.html
             • tsmithfield …

               2 October 2023 at 4:46 pm

               My suggested option looks fairly good then, lol.

               I think that Press debate is held live in Christchurch? If so, it may just be too hard to arrange around schedules, especially this close to the election.
               • Incognito …

                 2 October 2023 at 5:02 pm

                 Which suggestion? The ice cream lady vs. the orator?
   • Bryan Dods 9.3

     2 October 2023 at 9:04 pm

     @tsmithfield Deputy leaders would be Willis vs Sepuloni.

     Carmel Sepuloni has been Labour Deputy since January in case you hadn't heard.
     • Bryan Dods 9.3.1

       3 October 2023 at 9:28 am

       Apology for my confusion. Sepuloni is Deputy Prime Minister and a Labour MP, but Davis is Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.
10. Adrian 10

    2 October 2023 at 9:52 am

    Luxons bluster and apparent nervousness and grasping at straws, like the "who's on top language one " and NZF phonecalls, make me think that maybe he knows something that we dont and that their own polling is not as on-track as the media presume. Not by much mind, but just Nat/ Act nowhere near the neccessary. Anybody else get this hopeful feeling?
    • Roy Cartland 10.1

      2 October 2023 at 10:57 am

      Yes. It's by no means a fait accompli, far from it.
    • ianmac 10.2

      2 October 2023 at 1:39 pm

      With Catherine this morning, Sue Maroney said a 4% shift would get LGM in power.
11. PsyclingLeft.Always 11

    2 October 2023 at 10:53 am

    From the "Who'd have thunk that ? " Files… (but it is good to see the numbers !)

    An RNZ analysis of political donations since 2021 shows people involved in the property industry are giving the most – and almost all of it is going to National, ACT and NZ First.

    RNZ's analysis shows National has received more than $1.3m in donations from people involved in the property industry since the beginning of 2021. The party has made no secret of a series of policies it has that are favourable to the property sector

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499176/property-industry-tops-political-donations

    We know who are the beneficiaries of NAct policy.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1

      2 October 2023 at 11:21 am

      The party has made no secret of a series of policies it has that are favourable to the property sector

      Actually, Nat pollies are in it for themselves, and their big donors.
      There will be no ‘trickle down’ for the “bottom feeders“.

      Today’s classroom visitor is Mr Luxon from the National Party
      MR LUXON: If you were naughty you went to boot camp and got scared into being an ordinary hardworking New Zealander. Or you became a bottom-feeder. Don’t become bottom-feeders, boys and girls.
      https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350052768/todays-classroom-visitor-mr-luxon-national-party
    • Barfly 11.2

      2 October 2023 at 12:45 pm

      The National Party – for the best laws you can buy. Enquire now about their easy payment plans.
      • PsyclingLeft.Always 11.2.1

        2 October 2023 at 12:49 pm

        And a tax break ice cream ! (however DVD not necessarily incl )
12. weka 12

    2 October 2023 at 11:02 am

    Post up now about Winston Peters and that Jack Tame interview, and why Peters is dangerous.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/why-wont-winston-peters-answer-straight-forward-questions-about-nz-first-policy/
13. lprent 13

    2 October 2023 at 12:57 pm

    Weird. The RSS feeds have almost died. Another task to look at after I get past my current work log jam.

    Ummm. looks like either a data query problem, or a render issue.

    Looks like it must have just happened.
    • lprent 13.1

      2 October 2023 at 3:51 pm

      Fixed. Looks like a very bad RSS feed from realclimate.
14. AB 14

    2 October 2023 at 1:19 pm

    I enjoyed the TVNZ Sunday piece on the Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study (aka "Dunedin Longitudinal Study" and "Dunedin Study") and the recent death death of its director, Richie Poulton. John Campbell's elegiac lyricism was exactly right for this topic (sometimes it's not). In line with the "nature loads the gun, nurture pulls the trigger" hypothesis, Poulton mentioned briefly that the biggest thing the study had taught him was that the childhood experience of poverty is extremely problematic, potentially pulling many triggers. It is hard not to believe that many of our social problems would in large part wash away in a couple of generations if we effectively ended poverty. Instead I have to listen to Mark Mitchell wanting to get tough on crime. Depressing.
    • pat 14.1

      2 October 2023 at 1:25 pm

      Difficult to eradicate poverty if you arnt prepared to redistribute wealth.

      Like you I think many of our social problems would in large part disappear if poverty were ended, however a couple of generations is about 40 years so what is to be done about the mess we have already created meantime…ignoring it is not an option.
      • AB 14.1.1

        2 October 2023 at 1:55 pm

        "Ignoring it is not an option". Agree Pat. I do think that the short-term interventions (some balance of support and disapproval/punishment) should be influenced by our belief in the long-term approach – and that we might be surprised at how quickly poverty reduction starts to produce small incremental gains.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 14.2

      2 October 2023 at 1:44 pm

      Party Vote Green https://www.greens.org.nz/ending_poverty_together

      https://vote.nz/enrolling/enrol-or-update/enrol-or-update-online/

      Plenty of wisdom from Poulton in that TVNZ Sunday programme.

      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/sunday/episodes/s2023-e31

      Nat (Willux) policies will (further) entrench poverty in Kiwi society – not just physically, but also in hearts and minds. Actually, NAct pollies are the real "bottom feeders", imho.

      An Ode for .. Baron Luxon

      The Baron found himself repeating his words mindlessly

      In a dull, trance-like state.

      He began to perspire under the hot and fiery sun

      And the silent watchful gaze of a crowd of bottom feeders

      Who gathered by the roadside with their petitions and pleas.

      “Tax cuts for everyone!” shouted the Baron with forced cheer

      As he tried to escape through the throng of odorous peasants.

      He edged around a giant hole in the road.

      “Help,” he heard a voice cry from the bottomless pit,

      “I fell down here looking for The Details.”

      The Baron pretended not to hear Lady Nicola,

      For there before him was the Magnificent Castle of State.

      Why poverty in New Zealand is everyone’s concern
      Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”
    • ianmac 14.3

      2 October 2023 at 1:49 pm

      POVERTY The Dunedin study shows evidence that about 70-80% of children are in future heading to prison or crime or unemployment come from poverty.

      Sign up here. Be in the poverty team and stay on path. Vote NAct to speed up your future prospects.
15. PsyclingLeft.Always 15

    2 October 2023 at 1:21 pm

    Not Politics..Just sad…

    Drivers asked to slow down after rare bitterns killed near Dargaville

    Department of Conservation (DOC) senior biodiversity ranger Reuben Booth said it was likely the birds were catching skinks on the roadside when they were hit.

    He pleaded with drivers to keep an eye out for the tall, brown-and-white speckled birds, especially where the road passes wetlands, their favoured habitat.

    Booth said the bittern was so rare, the loss of even two birds could affect the species' chances of survival.

    Colin French, a kaitiaki for local hapū Te Uri o Hau, said the matuku hūrepo was a rare taonga species.

    "Slow down, they won't always run, as sometimes they will stand still like a stick as a defence mechanism to camouflage themselves from predators or threats," French said.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/499205/drivers-asked-to-slow-down-after-rare-bitterns-killed-near-dargaville

    Its like Pukeko…and Kahu (Hawk) some people either dont care..or want ..to hit them ?

    Geez I always hit the horn button even when I was a truck driver..

    Hawks take a little while to react..(Raptor claws)

    But the Bitterns esp..running them over…just wrong.
    • alwyn 15.1

      2 October 2023 at 2:55 pm

      Surely it is far more important to save the skinks?

      Why do you think that it is OK for bitterns to murder those friendly little skinks?
      • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1.1

        2 October 2023 at 3:26 pm

        Surely it is far more important to save the skinks?

        Why? Genuine question.

        Why do you think that it is OK for bitterns to murder those friendly little skinks?

        A bittern's (“Conservation status: Nationally Critical“) gotta eat – or is meat murder?

        Australasian bitterns feed mainly on fish, including eels, but they also take spiders, insects, molluscs, worms, freshwater crayfish, frogs and lizards.

        Phew – no reason then for us non-skinks to fear being bittern
      • PsyclingLeft.Always 15.1.2

        2 October 2023 at 3:28 pm

        I suppose there is something sadder…a puerile right wing troll who briefly emerges from under his bridge…before scuttling back there.
      • AB 15.1.3

        2 October 2023 at 4:35 pm

        There are native skinks and then there are the Australian invaders (rainbow or plague skinks). They have invaded our place in Auckland and look a lot like native skinks. Kingfisher (kotare) round here seem to account for a few and even a lucky sparrow or two gets in on the act. . Bitterns probably lack either the knowledge or inclination to distinguish between the natives and the Aussies, but are probably eating mostly the latter. I remember seeing bittern in the swampy areas of farmland when camped at Kai-iwi lakes (also near Dargaville) in the mid '70's. The trout in the lakes were in their prime then – plenty in 2.5 to 3kg range and some of the few trout anywhere actually worth eating..
16. SPC 16

    2 October 2023 at 3:28 pm

    Journalists are welcome to borrow these questions

    “Given the 100 days programme begins from when a coalition agreement is completed, will it start this year or next year”?

    Follow up question, “are you confident of the coalition agreement holding for 100 days”?

    “How can you guarantee to realise this programme in 100 days before a coalition agreement has been reached”?

    “How many lies have you told about this before today”

    What, if anything, you have said will you stand by, rather than make any changes to form a coalition agreement?

    Do you know what a grifter is?

    “And is the party you lead working for the landlord class, property developer, speculator, real estate industry, the employer class, the climate change denying farming lobby, – the people who donate money to your party”.
    • AB 16.1

      2 October 2023 at 4:41 pm

      100 days plans are a form of right-wing virtue signalling. They mark the heroic determination to deliver, not be held back by bureaucrats, red tape and ultimately, reality. All we need is an art deco-style poster of Luxon with sleeves rolled up shaking his fist at the sky in defiance, and the historical antecedents will be clear.
17. Roy Cartland 17

    2 October 2023 at 3:45 pm

    What could possibly be in it for Nat to pull out of the Press debate? Surely Luxon isn’t that much of a sook?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133039988/live-christopher-luxon-pulls-out-of-press-leaders-debate
    • observer 17.1

      2 October 2023 at 4:07 pm

      It is feeble, but in character.

      He is simply not up to the job he's applying for. As PM you face far more scrutiny than he has ever faced.

      No opposition leader (Nat or Lab) in the MMP era has run away as much as Luxon 2023. Not one.
      • Anne 17.1.1

        2 October 2023 at 4:29 pm

        He's a coward! An excuse to pull out of having to debate Hipkins again. I hope Labour has the gumption to scream [metaphorically speaking]:

        “coward, coward coward”

        every day until Election day.
        • Anne 17.1.1.1

          2 October 2023 at 4:44 pm

          LOVE IT.

          "Labour's new ad depicting Luxon in a chicken suit."

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-advance-voting-begins-as-labours-chris-hipkins-curtailed-by-covid/U26QBPYFN5C3ZKSDXTDY4JYIMU/

          Maybe someone knows how to transfer the image to this site? I don't.
          • Anne 17.1.1.1.1

            2 October 2023 at 4:57 pm

            From now until Election day, all Labour candidates should refer to him as:

            "chicken lickin luxon".
            • Drowsy M. Kram 17.1.1.1.1.1

              2 October 2023 at 5:04 pm

              CLux cLux clux

              Not forgetting Colonel Willis’ very secret blend of foreign buyer tax and rising house prices.

              Pulling tax from one part of teetering Jenga tower to place it in another [updated 20 Sept 2023]

              At its core, National’s tax plan is all about property.

              It should be no surprise that the real estate sector, who stand to gain from an influx of affluent foreign buyers, have been the most vocal in their enthusiasm for National’s tax plan.

              https://www.newsroom.co.nz/max-harris-pulling-tax-from-one-part-of-teetering-jenga-tower-to-place-it-in-another
            • Incognito 17.1.1.1.1.2

              2 October 2023 at 5:13 pm

              Why did the chicken cross the road?

              Because it was running away and couldn’t fly.
              • Red Blooded One …

                2 October 2023 at 5:44 pm

                Nah, a Chicken uses a Chauffeured driven Mercedes-Benz Limousine to cross the road.
          • Bearded Git 17.1.1.1.2

            2 October 2023 at 5:54 pm

            Thank you Anne. That has gone straight on facebook.
        • gsays 17.1.1.2

          2 October 2023 at 5:21 pm

          How was he going to debate Hipkins? Hipkins was unavailable.

          This chicken stuff seems a bit below the belt.

          Bishop, on RNZ this morning raised the possibility of Willis v Davis ( the deputies). My immediate thought was it would be a mismatch, considering what a low profile Davis has had and he doesn't strike me as much of a effective debater.

          Edit, ahh I see, this is in the context of a future event.
          • Dennis Frank 17.1.1.2.1

            2 October 2023 at 5:37 pm

            Labour rejected that, according to media I saw or heard earlier. The prospect of her running rings around poor ole Kelvin spooked them. I don't see the point of having a party deputy leader if you're too scared to use him.

            Does seem kinda strange that Lux would pass on the opportunity though. Maybe he's never heard of practice makes perfect? Does this debate get televised? I looked at freeview's guide but it wasn't there.
            • gsays 17.1.1.2.1.1

              2 October 2023 at 5:46 pm

              "Does seem kinda strange that Lux would pass on the opportunity though."

              Hipkins needs the debate way, way more than Luxon does. Makes sense not to give him the opportunity. The desperation explains Labour's over reaction to the whole affair.
            • Bearded Git 17.1.1.2.1.2

              2 October 2023 at 5:59 pm

              Don't buy into this National crap Dennis-that is exactly what they want. It is a LEADERS debate. The clue is in the word “leader”.

              Labour has said it will reschedule when Hipkins is well. Luxon has run like the feeble chicken he is.

              It must have hurt being well beaten in the last debate.
      • Roy Cartland 17.1.2

        2 October 2023 at 5:03 pm

        Some examples please?

        (Not because I need proof, just for the schadenfreude )
        • observer 17.1.2.1

          2 October 2023 at 5:36 pm

          For example …

          Election 2023: National's Christopher Luxon walks off again amid more questions over tax plan | Newshub

          Note: "again"
          • Incognito 17.1.2.1.1

            2 October 2023 at 5:41 pm

            Luxon has mastered the moonwalk.
    • AB 17.2

      2 October 2023 at 4:53 pm

      He's signaling that the election is a sideshow, he's already won and is calling the shots. Democratic niceties are just holding him back from 'delivering' now, the 100-day plan is on the table, it's all over, get the show on the road, the only game in town, the boss is on the phone, the natural order of things is resumed.
      • Roy Cartland 17.2.1

        2 October 2023 at 5:08 pm

        You know, that's not a completely stupid tactic if the Nats were up to it.

        It would be pretty risky, and annoy a few people (debate ticket holders etc), but it may enhance the idea they're trying to create that "the contest was over a long time ago".

        Dunno about Luxon, but Slippery John would have thought he could get away with it.
        • AB 17.2.1.1

          2 October 2023 at 7:22 pm

          I've heard Big Lux say multiple time that he is not going to be lectured by Hipkins, or take advice from him, or be given lessons on economics by him. The language is suggestive of an imperial mindset – of an authority that comes from some place other than a democratic mandate of the people. That other place might be the heroic status of being a mighty CEO, or (freakily) it might be God.
          • Anne 17.2.1.1.1

            2 October 2023 at 8:13 pm

            It could be a mix of both. Although I have my doubts about his so-called Christianity. Its starting to look more like it was means to an end and nothing more than that. His archaic views on social issues such as abortion, women's rights generally and the quip “bottom feeders” are far more concerning.

            Taking the country backwards needs to be spelt out in detail by Labour and the Greens because I don't think many people comprehend what it will mean for them.
18. SPC 18

    2 October 2023 at 4:25 pm

    Have we not just continued with the protection of privilege since the 1984 market reforms? Merely moved from import licensing, tariffs and subsidy to a pampering of the landlord class (mortgage deductability against rent income, no real CGT, no estate or wealth taxation, no stamp duties – there is nothing like it in the rest of the world), the employer class (ECA and no FPA industry awards easy hire of migrants etc – little like it in the rest of the world, or its scale – because holding down wages results in loss to Oz) and otherwise pandering to the industrial scale dairying by volume business.

    The results are in, overpriced land, unafforable homes for underpaid workers and an insufferable party of grifters who work them (National Party).
19. Adrian 19

    2 October 2023 at 4:31 pm

    Hes Running Scared, ( wish I could link the sound track) . Nothing worse than being bested by a crook bloke on his sickbed , yes he is a gutless sook.
    • Roy Cartland 19.1

      2 October 2023 at 5:18 pm

      Chippy said he'd reschedule any other date, provide another debater or even do it via zoom, and Lux still declined. Man, that's as much of a sook out as you can get.

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