Open Mike 03/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:04 am, November 3rd, 2018 - 248 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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248 comments on “Open Mike 03/11/2018 ”

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  1. Ad 1
    3 November 2018 at 6:30 am

    Cruz by 3 polling points.

    C’mon Beto!

    • ScottGN 1.1
      3 November 2018 at 7:09 am

      The Cook Political Report has moved that race to toss-up. And there’s record early voting turnout for key Democrat voters.

      • AB 1.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 8:59 am

        Stories of rampant Republican-initiated voter suppression in Georgia and Arizona. Voters thrown off the rolls, forced to cast a provisional ballot if they turn up, which then isn’t counted. Haven’t heard anything about how bad it might be in Texas, but It has to be a worry.

        • ScottGN 1.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 9:20 am

          Standard practice for Republicans every cycle sadly. Interesting to see that there’s a narrative developing that Trump is already casting around for someone to blame if next weeks results prove disappointing for Republicans. And that someone looks to be outgoing House Speaker Paul Ryan who is not seeking re-election.

          https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/trump-rips-paul-ryan-over-birthright-citizenship-comments-with-days-to-go-before-midterms.html

          • AB 1.1.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 9:40 am

            Greg Palast (gregpalast.com) saying it is very aggressive this year. Seems that voter suppression is the reason behind discrepancies between polls (including exit polls) and actual results. Provisional ballots cast on the day by those purged from the rolls, are not counted. Will be interesting to watch.

            • ScottGN 1.1.1.1.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 9:54 am

              Widespread early voting may help to ameliorate some of these voter suppression tactics I suppose?

        • ScottGN 1.1.1.2
          3 November 2018 at 9:34 am

          A Federal Judge in Georgia has just ruled that the state must allow over 3 thousand naturalised US citizens to vote in a defeat for Republicans who had sought to suspend their voter registrations.

  2. WeTheBleeple 2
    3 November 2018 at 7:03 am

    Mentioned it in yesterdays open mike but at 4ish in the morning…

    Cellphones cause cancer.

    I’ve known this many years and people just treated me like a loony so I dropped the subject and stopped quoting studies. But the studies continue, and they continue to PROVE cellphones cause cancer. The science was obvious before but still these large corporations lie and deceive – controversy… you know, like global warming, tobacco, and a housing crisis.

    Take those stupid damn devices off your face and from your kids now. They make you stupider, reduce concentration span, have all sorts of psychological implications, are deliberately designed to addict…

    And cancer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/14/mobile-phones-cancer-inconvenient-truths

    What, you think the biggest companies in the world tell the truth? You and your children mean nothing except to bolster their profits.

      • Ed 2.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 7:30 am

        When have you ever had the guts to question the motivations of large corporations?
        You just want a simple life.
        See no evil, hear no evil.

        So you shill for the powerful.

        • James 2.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 7:36 am

          It dosnt take guys – it take a strange view on life to think everyone is a dr evil.

          And I was simply pointing out he was wrong.

        • James 2.1.1.2
          3 November 2018 at 7:38 am

          See post below about labour UK and their anti-Semitism below.

          I question the motivations of this large organisation. I see evil in this.

          Happy now Ed ?

          • Ed 2.1.1.2.1
            3 November 2018 at 7:43 am

            I asked about corporations.
            Like the fossil fuel , pharmaceuticals, animal agriculture, alcohol industries.
            The corporate powerful interests that put profit over the people and the planet.
            We are on the brink of climate catastrophe thanks to neoliberal capitalism and the actions of corporations.

            • James 2.1.1.2.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 7:53 am

              Interesting that you ignore the anti-Semitism comments also.

              Just sayin

              • mauī …
                3 November 2018 at 9:10 am

                Ed has no time for your propaganda.

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 9:22 am

                  Yes you are so right there. Ed has so much propaganda of his own that he can’t keep up with even that.

                • James …
                  3 November 2018 at 9:51 am

                  Whilst it would be great to be so powerful- it’s not owned by me.

                  Reported in numerous reputable news outlets and is actually being investigated by the police.

                  That’s facts not propaganda

            • Peter ChCh 2.1.1.2.1.2
              4 November 2018 at 12:39 pm

              Kinda of funny then that the biggest contributor to global warming is not capitalist countries, but the good old communist regime of China (over 23% of all global CO2 emissions). Blows your conspiracy theories right out of the water Ed.

      • James 2.1.2
        3 November 2018 at 7:33 am

        They even say that “the findings do not apply to people”.

        So what they are pointing out is what you have “known” for years is proven wrong by a huge study.

      • Ed 2.1.3
        3 November 2018 at 7:37 am

        Interesting article.
        This bit stood out.

        “A closer look reveals the industry’s sleight of hand. When Henry Lai, a professor of bioengineering at the University of Washington, analysed 326 safety-related studies completed between 1990 and 2006, he discovered that 44% of them found no biological effect from mobile phone radiation and 56% did; scientists apparently were split. But when Lai recategorised the studies according to their funding sources, a different picture emerged: 67% of the independently funded studies found a biological effect, while a mere 28% of the industry-funded studies did. Lai’s findings were replicated by a 2007 analysis in Environmental Health Perspectives, which concluded that industry-funded studies were two and a half times less likely than independent studies to find health effects.”

      • One Two 2.1.4
        3 November 2018 at 8:30 am

        2011 – WHO – EMF – Possible Carcinogen

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BwyDCHf5iCY

        Listen to some people who actually know what they’re talking about

      • WeTheBleeple 2.1.5
        3 November 2018 at 12:59 pm

        LOL. Why we have no need for concern:

        “You are not a male rat.”

        This calls for the cone of silence.

  3. James 3
    3 November 2018 at 7:21 am

    Labout (UK). Hate speech enablers:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/cancer-jew-boy-uk-police-probing-dozens-of-labour-anti-semitism-allegations/

    Of course only against Jews. Use the wrong pronoun and they will be all over it.

  4. James 4
    3 November 2018 at 7:50 am

    There should be a register to stop people like this ever being able to rip off landlords.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/108223999/a-tenant-from-hell-facing-her-16th-tribunal-hearing

    • SaveNZ 4.1
      3 November 2018 at 9:08 am

      @James. What government don’t realise is that sort of behaviour is becoming a wider spread problem of why there is going to be increasing private rental shortages in particular at the affordable end.

      The government are only focusing on landlord problems, there are also issues with anti social or mentally ill tenants impacting on housing, people who can’t afford rents or just fraudsters out there.

      Even the government does not want to be a landlord anymore and is selling off the state houses and land for private sale and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants.

      What happens to the others, a pretty large group of people, some of whom seem have major social issues along with the entitlement who even when given opportunities feel or (litigate) they are the victims.

      • marty mars 4.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 9:14 am

        “Even the government does not want to be a landlord anymore and is selling off the state houses and land for private sale and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants.”

        That is untrue. Try having some honour and tell the truth.

        • SaveNZ 4.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 9:31 am

          Ok $120k – $180k is the income bracket for Kiwibuy is that the middle class? Let me know the ‘true’ answer in your eyes.

          The government are selling approx 2/3 of the state house land… to fund new posh housing for a few select renters instead of repairing at much less cost the existing housing and developing the land better for RENTING. (The older housing would last longer anyway judging from modern building practices and standards which is another issue we will ‘find’ out in the next few decades if the new, posh housing fails).

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 9:36 am

            “Even the government does not want to be a landlord anymore and is selling off the state houses and land for private sale and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants.”

            you said that and it is not true – if it is put the links and evidence up please.

            • Bill 4.1.1.1.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 9:47 am

              How is it not true marty?

              Isn’t “right to buy” the government selling housing stock into the private sector? How else might that be seen?

              And public land has been transferred to the private sector as a part of KiwiBuild.

              • marty mars …
                3 November 2018 at 9:57 am

                “… and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants.” ”

                That is not true.

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 10:05 am

                  Yip, in my example Housing Corp wouldn’t even consider “middle class options”:

                  Reader said residents questioned Housing New Zealand vigorously at the meeting and suggested alternatives such as buy back of houses, and affordable or retirement housing options but alleged Housing New Zealand would not consider these.

                  The Northern Advocate asked Housing New Zealand if it would consider affordable or retirement housing as alternatives to state housing alongside questions about the meeting and the status of the sale.

                  In response, Housing New Zealand asset development group general manager Patrick Dougherty provided this statement:

                  “Housing New Zealand appreciated the opportunity to talk to people on Saturday and explain what the next steps would be following settlement [yesterday] and confirmation that we are now the legal owner of this piece of Crown land.

                  “We’re now looking forward to getting on and planning what state housing we could put on the land and sharing these details with both the people in the Maunu community and the broader Whangārei community as soon as possible. “

                  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503439&objectid=12068423

                  • SaveNZ …
                    3 November 2018 at 12:23 pm

                    They are taking part of an area used as a public park and owned by Ministry of Education.

                    Bit of a double standard as in Auckland where the land is so expensive and they need the affordable housing much more due to population growth they have created, they are worried about slums so do not want to put social housing all in one location, hence Kiwibuy, but apparently outside Auckland, no problem?

                    Housing corp/their private build partners must consider the Whangerei state houses are unlikely to end up as the Auckland slums they worry about as they are treating the cheaper land locations somewhat differently? Sarcasm.

                • Bill …
                  3 November 2018 at 10:37 am

                  Well, if you don’t think SaveNZ is mistaken to see the private sales component of KiwiBuild as being aimed at the middle class, then how’s about you engage meaningfully with them over that point in lieu of accusatory finger pointing that only encourages boring ‘yes it is’/ ‘no it isn’t’ type exchanges that go nowhere and offer nothing?

                  • marty mars …
                    3 November 2018 at 10:45 am

                    I have asked for proof – I know there isn’t any because it is made up. You can’t provide any proof either so how about YOU put some truth up and not just your subjective and bias opinion. When we don’t have made up thinks we can engage meaningfully.

                    • Bill …
                      3 November 2018 at 11:46 am

                      In asking for proof, you’re lazily (and again) “having a go” instead of engaging around the ideas and opinions people hold or promote.

                      What proof can there possibly be that would back up an ostensibly subjective notion of what is and isn’t middle class?

                      If you think it’s a financial thing and that the finances are within reach of non-middle class peeps, then have that debate with SaveNZ.

                      Truth is, that would make for better reading than the shouty ad homs you’re pinging up.

                    • marty mars …
                      3 November 2018 at 11:54 am

                      You may like unverified attack lines against labour but I don’t. There is no proof that labour have said the following … “and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants.”
                      That is an attack line and not true. You may like it or even believe it but I’m not discussing with someone who deliberately muddies the waters before the discussion has even begun.

                      The truth is imo you are just pissed off with me and are looking for a way to try and ban me. Own your stuff bill.

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:15 pm

                      @Bill

                      This is in open mike and not in your thing about Kiwibuild. This discussion started with James linking to an article about a bad tenant. SaveNZ responded by saying that “even the government does not want to be a landlord anymore” which is clearly false as the government is increasing state housing stock. When Marty challenged this false assertion SaveNZ came back with Kiwbuild but Kiwibuild is aimed at people who would not qualify for state housing and so would never be state tenants.

                      All Marty has done is ask for proof of what is clearly a false assertion. My understanding of the rules here is that making assertions “you are unable to substantiate with some proof” is not tolerated.

                    • marty mars …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:24 pm

                      @ solkta

                      It’s alright. Appreciate the support and this is an old pattern between bill and I and I accept some responsibility for it.

                      Truth is I know there is no proof – I just get sick of these dim attacks on Labour.

                    • SaveNZ …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:25 pm

                      Actually it is up to Marty and Solka to provide proof of the ‘lies’.

                      So please link to how many state houses have been built this year and moved into by state house tenants?

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:29 pm

                      No, the burden of proof is on you SaveNZ. You made the statement yet can’t back it up.

                    • Bill …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:33 pm

                      SaveNZ didn’t claim NZ Labour had said and only wants to provide middle class options for middle, upper class tenants

                      That aside, your apparent noble and tribal defense of NZ Labour against any perceived criticism is noted. I’m more in line with Rosemary, Sioban and others on that front. But hey…

                      I don’t want to ban you marty, and would hardly hae to “search” for a reason to do so – that’s just you projecting (again) and wrongly second guessing my thoughts and/or intentions – which is getting damned tedious if truth be told.

                    • Bill …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:42 pm

                      @ solka.

                      SaveNZ voicing their opinion is legitimate and (get this!) what the standard is intended for.

                      Attacking a person for expressing an opinion is not what the standard is for.

                      But this infantile level of exchange does my head in, so instead of trying to steer things in a healthier direction (it’s striking me as a lost cause) I’m outta here in the hope that Rosemary, Carolyn_Nth, Molly and others who make worthwhile contributions to discussion have had something to say in the meantime.

                      Chow.

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:43 pm

                      @Marty

                      I feel i have as much skin in this game as you. Many of SaveNZ’s posts are false assertions about Labour and the Greens. I hate that, even when it is directed at Nact. I can see that there is a pattern between you and Bill but hey will i be next?

                    • marty mars …
                      3 November 2018 at 12:59 pm

                      @ solkta

                      Yeah I get it. Hard to deal with spin sometimes.

                      @ bill. Yeah I’m sick of you too especially for bullshit like this, “That aside, your apparent noble and tribal defense of NZ Labour against any perceived criticism is noted”

                      Always love the big threats you do eh bill – little man big stick syndrome imo but thanks for the LOLs.

                      [ 🙄 It’s your behaviour I’m finding tedious marty. Not you. Hell, I don’t know you from a bar of soap and could walk past you in the street or even pass time with you over a beer and be none the wiser. But that aside, since you’re obviously not paying any heed to what’s being written and seem determined to carry on on the same track that involves submitting comments that are just excuses for snide or direct ad homs, I’m now assuming you’re angling for self martyrdom. Which is fine. Any more comments coming from you that appear to be just wrappings for pointless abuse, or that appear to have been constructed solely or mostly as a platform from which to launch personal abuse, and I’ll help you honour that 8 week ban you said you were imposing on yourself a week or two back.] – B.

                    • shadrach …
                      3 November 2018 at 3:47 pm

                      Hi Marty

                      SaveNZ certainly implied intent by the government, but whether the current performance of kiwibuild is by intent or not, the perception is that kiwibuild is not reaching those genuinely in need. The couple proudly paraded by Phil Twyford and Jacinda Ardern as the first owners of a KiwiBuild home are not examples of people who need government assistance into housing. They are classic examples of middle class welfare, and given the Michael Joseph Savage imagery, Labour have to own that.

                      If you are interested, Chris trotter has written on Kiwibuild at https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/11/kiwibuild-should-be-targeting-poor.html. I’ll finish with his closing quote:

                      “About the only people who aren’t happy are those who believe that publicly funded social interventions on the scale of KiwiBuild should be directed first to those most in need. Tragically, however, the Coalition Government is selling the poor a pup.”

                    • Chris …
                      3 November 2018 at 4:10 pm

                      It’s interesting, shadrach, that Twyford’s response was pretty much that the poor wouldn’t be able to afford home ownsership anyway so what’s their problem.

                  • WeTheBleeple …
                    3 November 2018 at 1:10 pm

                    While I agree with some concerns re building codes/building smarter, this debate has elements of ridiculous left wing identity politics.

                    Lower and upper middle class… more categories to divide folks up. And somehow, now, a middle class person buying a house is the ‘private sector’ like they’ve taken the form of some corporate entity upon receiving their keys. They’re people moving into their first homes, not villains.

                  • Ankerrawshark …
                    3 November 2018 at 2:41 pm

                    Hey bill yesterday you challenged me re KiwiBuild homes not being fit for purpose, warm, dry, last well. I re-read your post but could find no link. Can you let me know the source of your information? Cheers

                    • Bill …
                      3 November 2018 at 3:02 pm

                      You mean in relation to AGW?

                      edit – okay, I think I found the comment you made. If you go through the link that was used as the source for the IEA quote, you’ll see under the heading “2. The New Zealand Building Code” further quotes from other studies pointing to the fact that NZ building codes are wanting in relation to other richer countries.

                      Both the OECD and the IEA point to the necessity of retrofitting in the future should NZ continue to build houses to current standards.

                      Beyond that, it’s just taken for granted that in a world experiencing warming, houses need (for example) to have enough thermal mass to reduce the amount of energy used for heating and cooling – we can’t construct energy supply networks fast enough to get zero carbon energy in time to avoid shooting through 2 degrees. That means we have to simultaneously reduce demand through efficiences while at the same time expanding energy supply to cater for a whole pile of stuff that’s going to have to shift from fossil and bio to non-carbon and electric.

                      Beyond the energy side of things, buildings that aren’t built to deal with prolonged heat waves are buildings that people will be dying in. If last year’s northern summer is an indicator of things to come, then we’re probably not looking at decades down the track – more in terms of mere years.

                    • Bill …
                      3 November 2018 at 4:03 pm

                      You might find the following of interest in relation to the current NZ building standards being behind those of other countries and maybe with an eye to the comparatively poor standard of insulation in NZ – and expected heat events.

                      From pp36 onwards in Your Home in a Changing Climate retrofitting existing homes for climate change impacts (for policy makers)

                      and

                      Impact of climate change on the domestic indoor environment and associated health risks in the UK

                    • Ankerrawshark …
                      3 November 2018 at 4:45 pm

                      Thanks for replying Bill.

                      Will read soon. I don’t doubt that our building standards are rubbish, but read (for what it’s worth, and it’s probably not worth much) that KiwiBuild would be warm dry homes… but you may be referring to other needs as our planet warms. The honest truth is that I am so pleased National aren’t in power anymore, that I tend to think well this is better, so much better than what National would have done. Appreciate people such as yourself to critique labour more rigorously.

                      I do support the idea of young first home buyers getting access to buying their own home though. But clearly more needs to be done for the poor. They are doing stuff eg porirua announcement but I hope they are getting the message to increase their efforts here+++++

            • solkta 4.1.1.1.1.2
              3 November 2018 at 9:48 am

              I’ll start off with this example where “the government” is moving ahead with a state housing development in the face of strong local opposition. Manau is one of Whangarei’s whitest and wealthiest suburbs.

              https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12152740

              • SaveNZ …
                3 November 2018 at 12:50 pm

                That is land. No houses built there just ‘paper plans’. Unlike the Kiwibuy which has already got the houses built and middle class tenants moved in there. In contrast the state house tenants have not got houses, but plans and have been evicted and in temporary housing.

                And if antisocial tenants and gangs move into Whangarei, when it eventually gets built, how nice will that be for the rest of the residents living there?

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 1:09 pm

                  Right, so you are all for the state providing rental housing but only if it contains low income people in slums well segregated from the well to do.

                  • SaveNZ …
                    3 November 2018 at 2:36 pm

                    Time for your private room there Solka. Even I can’t make out what you are on about, which is apparently being annoyed about what I am on about.

                    PS Did you bother to post on the Labour conference any ideas of your own?

                    This is supposed to be a site for comments and ideas not what you are using it for, aka to derail debate.

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 4:16 pm

                      You said:

                      And if antisocial tenants and gangs move into Whangarei, when it eventually gets built, how nice will that be for the rest of the residents living there?

                      You say you want to look after the most vulnerable but don’t want the wealthy to be burdened with having them in ‘their’ neighborhood. I live in a mixed neighborhood and have five direct housing corp neighbors and have never had an issue. All nice people.

              • marty mars …
                3 November 2018 at 12:15 pm

                Multiple initiatives to tackle the housing issue.

                “The Government will invest $100 million into tackling homelessness in this month’s Budget.

                Of that total, $37m will go into providing 1500 shorter-term houses, which should be in place by the end of winter.

                The other $63m will be used to significantly ramp up the Housing First Programme, which is a longer-term solution and targets the most vulnerable families in the country.

                Housing First is based on the idea that people should be placed straight into permanent housing, rather than emergency shelters, before any other issues such as addiction or mental health are addressed.

                There are no conditions attached for tenants, such as a requirement to be alcohol or drug-free when they come into the progtramme.

                The new money will expand the programme to another 550 households outside the main centres, at a cost of $42.9m. The remainder of the $63 million will be used to sustain and expand Housing First services – such as mental health treatment.

                Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Housing Minister Phil Twyford made the announcement at Te Puea Marae in Mangere, which took on large numbers of homeless in recent years as the problem worsened.

                Speaking at the marae, Ardern said there should be no homelessness in a country like New Zealand.

                “Images of children growing up in cars sits well with no one,” she said.

                She said the government would be also seeking out help from other maraes and social services, who have land or the ability to offer services to homeless people.

                She acknowledged the funding package would not be enough to end homelessness and said her government aimed to deliver more funding to build permanent housing in coming announcements.

                Putting chronically homeless people into emergency housing did not provide them with long-term stability, she said.

                “[But] this is us trying to meet the immediate need.”

                Twyford said most of the new 1500-odd homes were already available for homeless people to move into.

                He said the public housing waiting list in New Zealand was now over 9000 and heading for 10,000.

                The minister appealed to the public to assist with finding homes and land which could be used for emergency housing.

                “We can’t do this alone … If you know of properties that might be available over winter, such as seasonal worker accommodation or private rental homes, we’d like to hear about those.

                “We’d also like to identify small land options suitable for temporary housing with power and water connections ready to go, such as marae and private land.”

                The $37m for MSD came from underspend under the previous Government. The $63m was new money and was on top of the $300m committed by the National Government in 2016.”

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12044775

                • David Mac …
                  3 November 2018 at 12:52 pm

                  Hi Marty. Managing HNZ tenants is a massive ongoing challenge with lots of potential to paint the government ugly.

                  eg: As per your link, providing long term chronic alcoholics with a permanent place to call home is great, the best option I feel. But geez, I wouldn’t want to be fielding the endless streams of complaints from disgruntled neighbours.

                  I agree Marty, these initiatives do represent movement in the right direction and most certainly is the hard way. Our previous government’s solution to the problem was to try and drop the lot into the lap of The Salvation Army.

                  They wisely said “No thanks Mr Key, we don’t want your 1000’s of free houses”.

                  • SaveNZ …
                    3 November 2018 at 1:26 pm

                    Also you say “The new money will expand the programme to another 550 households outside the main centres, at a cost of $42.9m”

                    So that seems a ratio of $78,000 per household, per year if yearly or is that amount over how much time?

                    Cos $650,000 for a house for 50 years adds up to $13,000 per year and if the house lasts 100 years it’s $6,500 per year per household if the state owns the house.

                    Then they get state house rent from the tenant etc to cover expenses, interest etc.

                    Long term that’s a significant amount of money to find aka $42.9m and it might be easier just to can Kiwibuy and just pop the homeless in the Kiwibuild houses and save a shit load of tax payer money.

                    • David Mac …
                      3 November 2018 at 2:09 pm

                      Demand for State Houses is unlikely to be met for generations, if ever. Places like Sweden were building them before white fellas landed in NZ. Millions of us would stick our hand up if offered a home for a third of our available income.

                • SaveNZ …
                  3 November 2018 at 12:58 pm

                  Housing First is not a state agency. The government are giving significant amounts of money to third party providers who then use private housing (aka private landlords) for the housing and obviously there are overheads to having 5 separate organisations who all have their own paid members etc to run all these charities and organisations.

                  So the money is not going into state housing. It might be going into helping homelessness but it is not going into building the actual housing via groups like Housing First.

                  If you have a link to an actual NEW state house built with our tax payer money in first years this government has been in power and has permanent and secure tenancy in place, I’m keen to see it.

                • SaveNZ …
                  3 November 2018 at 1:39 pm

                  The right to buy: the housing crisis that Thatcher built
                  Now revived by David Cameron, the right to buy social housing was a key Conservative policy in the 80s: populist, profitable, and with its disastrous effects yet to come

                  https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/26/right-to-buy-margaret-thatcher-david-cameron-housing-crisis

                  • marty mars …
                    3 November 2018 at 1:55 pm

                    My last comment – I appreciate that you are trying to look after the most vulnerable in our society. I don’t agree with many of the extrapolated conclusions you reach. I also want to look after the most vulnerable in our society.

                  • Chris …
                    3 November 2018 at 2:20 pm

                    The right to buy your state house was the norm in New Zealand throughout the 50s and 60s and was a successful policy. The only reason for this, though, is because it was regarded as merely one aspect of a wider housing policy of providing low interest home loans to either buy or build, secure low cost tenancies for those who continued to rent, and actively replacing stock that was sold to tenants. The only negative aspect of that era was the shortlived or not used enough approach of pepper-potting, the consequences of which we still see today. A housing policy that has all of these things, including pepper-potting and adding full insulation, is what we need right now.

                    • Dukeofurl …
                      3 November 2018 at 4:19 pm

                      National introduced right buy in the mid 50s

                      “the government offered purchasers very generous terms: 5 percent deposit, a 3 percent mortgage rate, with a maximum purchase period of 40 years”

                      That is the State was the lender- Sate Advances Corporation.
                      Trading Banks of course didnt lend much to ordinary homeowners and most housing loans were from Savings Banks who required you to have a deposit saved with them. Investors were fairly rare.

                      In general National wanted renters to buy houses and didnt like building more, while labour was the opposite.
                      In the 1990s National moved to ‘market rates’ for all state houses and allowed those not normally eligible to rent expensive state houses , often so they could buy , especially in Auckland.
                      https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/we-call-it-home/the-state-steps-in-and-out

        • Molly 4.1.1.2
          3 November 2018 at 6:17 pm

          Even though it was the previous government, HNZ did hand over half the equity and the management of HNZ stock to Auckland Council, and the Tāmaki Regeneration Company. And that model is currently being used as validation for other proposals along similar lines.

          My concern is that when authority and management is diluted amongst three different entities, it is quite easy and often observed, that it is difficult to get anyone to take responsibility. I feel that is the perspective I share with saveNZ. I feel strongly that state housing should be administered, owned and maintained by the state. Council housing similarly.

          The moves to override local government regulations in order to provide housing, would quite rightly be criticised on this forum, if it had been proposed by National. Aligned with PPP models, this is a complete disregard for considered planning, and will most likely result in long-term negative outcomes for those residing in resulting communities, and possibly for the neighbourhoods surrounding. Local government planning and regulations should be putting in place guidelines and rules to improve the wellbeing of residents and communities for years to come – and Phil Twyford is suggesting to ignore all that?

          Why is that seen a reasonable thing to do?

    • David Mac 4.2
      3 November 2018 at 12:30 pm

      There is a register James. She targets soft touch private landlords who have decided to save 8% of the rent and manage their properties themselves. A landlord that hands over the keys before a tenancy agreement is signed or photo ID sighted deserves their fate. Miniscule savings that can easily cost much more than the rent due.

      Tracy’s form is freely and quickly available by tapping her name into the Tenancy Tribunal Orders search facility.

      https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/TT/

      • Gabby 4.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 1:31 pm

        Just as well she always uses her real name isn’t it davy. Crikey, imagine what she could get away with if she told fibs about stuff.

        • David Mac 4.2.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 1:43 pm

          Hi Gabby, not sure I understand your point. Tracy appears to be a chronic liar. As I say, the landlord that rents to anyone without sighting a drivers license or passport does so at their peril.

          • Gabby 4.2.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 3:38 pm

            You know, i wouldn’t put it past her to be less than 100% accurate in providing a driver’s licence.

  5. Ed 5
    3 November 2018 at 7:58 am

    Does James have the guts to challenge these powerful organisations ?

    The US and UK arms industries.
    The US and UK governments.

    All complicit in mass murder in Yemen.

    “Since Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies launched a bombing campaign to oust the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in the spring of 2015, the UK has sold and estimated $5 billion worth of arms to Riyadh.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yemen-saudi-arabia-oxfam-aid-air-strikes-civilian-casualties-a8615081.html

    “UK government ‘has blood on its hands’ over Yemen conflict but poll shows 42% of British public do not know war exists”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yemen-war-saudi-arabia-bombing-british-uk-arms-exports-public-poll-keith-vaz-blood-hands-a8604521.html

  6. SaveNZ 6
    3 November 2018 at 8:23 am

    “Plastic – unlike glass or metal – cannot be recycled infinitely, and after a handful of times it will be discarded, where it will take centuries to degrade. One single water bottle will remain on the planet in some form for a minimum of 450 years.

    Even if plastic were easily and infinitely recyclable, it is still manufactured from crude oil often obtained by methods such as fracking, one of the most environmentally damaging processes in existence, which produces carbon emissions and contaminates the surrounding areas, putting people’s health at immediate risk.

    It’s clear that something needs to change, and it’s not about recycling. If we want to truly address the devastating impact of single-use plastic the answer is simple: governments must focus on stopping its production entirely.

    Single-use plastics should be immediately banned, or at the very least heavily taxed. ”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/plastic-waste-wish-recycling-bins-black-environment-green-shopping-a8548736.html?fbclid=IwAR1lkdImgBHjdQyiVV_YeB2jZmcRUgxjKO4MWB7xye-hemUQHQkhcmZFdzo

    (Personally I am for a ban on single use plastic, but we are so far gone now that is not enough, we need to create a system where the manufacturers are responsible for the recycling of every type of plastic post use, and that will ensure that they start to eliminate unnecessary plastic through their supply chains. )

  7. SaveNZ 7
    3 November 2018 at 8:34 am

    Completely disgusting.

    “A plan to turn a huge tract of pristine Antarctic ocean into the world’s biggest sanctuary has been rejected, throwing the future of one of the Earth’s most important ecosystems into doubt.

    Environmental groups said Russia, China and Norway had played a part in blocking the proposal, with the other 22 members of the Commission for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources, the organisation set up to protect Antarctic waters, backing the proposal.

    The 1.8m sq km reserve – five times the size of Germany – would have banned all fishing in a vast area of the Weddell Sea and parts of the Antarctic peninsula, safeguarding species including penguins, killer whales, leopard seals and blue whales.

    Experts said it would also have played a key role in tackling climate change, as the seas around the Antarctic soak up huge amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. ”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/02/plan-create-worlds-biggest-nature-reserve-antarctic-rejected

    As blocking the nature reserve in Antartica with Russia and Norway apparently China is now allowing the sale of endangered animal parts.

    • Cinny 7.1
      3 November 2018 at 9:14 am

      Agree 100%

      When areas of ocean are protected, allowing marine life to thrive, it creates a spill over effect. The result being increased marine life in adjoining unprotected oceans.

      Short clip under 3mins

    • SaveNZ 7.2
      3 November 2018 at 9:24 am

      China Lifts The Ban On Endangered Animal Parts To Promote Medicine

      http://medicaldailytimes.com/news/china-lifts-ban-endangered-animal-parts-promote-medicine/4246/

      China had previously supported conservation efforts, but now flexing power of where it is going for the future aka not the worldwide, collaborative conservation path… but instead going backwards for short term profits at the expense of future generations and holistic conservation measures…

      the world should be increasing conservation, as biodiversity is in major decline, but instead the superpowers and countries of the world seems to be turning a blind eye and making things worse.

      • Bearded Git 7.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 9:55 am

        This will finish the rhinos off….more than a 1000 are poached from just South Africa alone each year, and these are the official figures.

        China should hang its head in shame.

      • marty mars 7.2.2
        3 November 2018 at 2:50 pm

        Terrible news.

    • One Two 7.3
      3 November 2018 at 10:37 am

      The article reads like a beat-up, without any substance…

      Read it slowly, and look for the signs, of which there are many

    • Exkiwiforces 7.4
      3 November 2018 at 6:40 pm

      This is an interesting article from the Oz ABC News website,

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-03/fish-wars-likely/10459584

      Since the rise of the middle class in China’s booming economy seafood has become major staple food source, as where as before the economic boom in China either the rich or those living by sea could afford seafood. The Chinese Fishing Fleet is heavily subsidised to a point in SEA it’s now regarded as the fifth arm of the PLA behind the Chinese Coast Guard due to its illegal conduct against other nations fishing boats on the high seas or in other nations EEZ’s. This aggressive approach by the Chinese Fishing Fleet has lead a number problems such over fishing, collapse of local fishing communities with host nations and possibly long term effects in these host nations will total collapse of the fisheries leading to a total collapse of the economy of that host nation, armed conflict on the high seas which has already happened to the Chinese Fishing Fleet in Southern South America just a couple of yrs ago and that’s before we add the effects of CC.

      Having followed Anne Marie Brady research since her break in. In her latest paper on the Antarctic Treaty she has noticed a total lack of disclosure on Chinese and Russia research and military involvement in the Antarctic Region. All other nations that signed the Antarctic Treaty all those years ago have been fully upfront with disclosure in Antarctic Region, but neither Russia or China are compiling to the rules of the Antarctic atm especially over the last 10yrs it seems. We’re already seen land/ water grab by Russia and China over the last 5-10 yrs in the Arctic and in the South China Sea, so they going to do the same thing when the Antarctic Treaty comes up for renewal in the coming yrs?

      My guess is they are getting ready to do it. As there is an awful lot fish in those Southern waters, natural resources, oil and gas in the Antarctic Regions ripe exploration.

      • JC 7.4.1
        3 November 2018 at 7:05 pm

        One option …

        Susi Pudjiastuti, Indonesia’s minister for fisheries and maritime affairs, has a strong message for China, owner of the world’s largest fishing fleet.

        “The Indonesian fisheries minister – known for her penchant for blowing up wayward vessels – sets her sights on Chinese habits ahead of an international conference that will tackle overfishing”

        https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2169153/china-calls-it-fishing-indonesia-calls-it-crime-pudjiastuti

        “Ministers and heads of state from 35 nations are to attend this month’s Our Oceans Conference along with 200 non-governmental and private sector organisations. Maritime security, climate change and pollution of the seas will be on the agenda as well as overfishing.”

        https://ourocean2018.org/

        And you’ve probably seen this paper… By Anne-Marie Brady that highlights some of China’s interests and activities in the Australian Antarctic Territory (AAT), which include undeclared military activities and mineral exploration …

        https://www.aspi.org.au/report/chinas-expanding-interests-antarctica

        • Exkiwiforces 7.4.1.1
          4 November 2018 at 6:56 pm

          Yes, I tend too agree with the Indonesian minister on that, as the Chileans or Arge’s sunk a few fishing boats when the refuse to stop when they were caught illegally fishing inside whoever’s EEZ at the time. The Chinese Fishing Fleet hasn’t been back to those waters since the sinking of it Fishing Boats.

          NZ once did the same thing back in the late 70’s using a pair of Skyhawk’s as poor RNZN patrol boat (HDML of WW2 vintage) was struggling to chase them down. NZ didn’t have many problems for a number of yrs/ decades onwards as every Foreign Fishing Boat knew the NZG was prepared to use lethal deadly force to enforce it EEZ rules.

          Just before I left work in Jul this yr, I remember reading an article in Janes Defence, that the Chinese were thinking or in the process of upgrading a number of Coast Guard Ships with new Sensor Suite, Weapon Suite IRT mounting a 3’ (76mm) automatic gun with whole host of lethal and non lethal weapons. The big ocean going Chinese Guard vessels which roughly the same size as the ANZAC Frigates, could quite easily mount a 3’ auto gun along with the other upgraded weapon and sensor systems.

          But in the footnotes of the Janes Defence Article, they asked the question would you embark on turning your Coast Guard Ships into a De Facto Naval vessel to escort your fishing fleet unless you going to illegally fish in other nations EEZ.

          The two OPV’s currently in service with the RNZN are somewhat now under gunned, not having the ideal weapon or mission/ sensor support systems because of the over weight issues with the ice belt added on to the OPV’s. If the Chinese Fishing Fleet does pop up in the Southern Ocean, inside NZ’s EEZ or somewhere else. If going to make an interesting question of enforcement of the rules etc?

          Yes I did see Anne-Marie Brady’s paper and it was in the Oz newspaper a couple of weeks ago. It was a very interesting read btw, to a point an ex boss of mine rang up as few questions and my POV on the article.

          I heard rumours (backed up by the ODT as well) of the MOD/RNZN scoping out facilities around Port Chambers and Bluff for a possible Southern Naval Base either in the first half of yr or last yr as the RNZN are after a 3rd OPV that’s capable of patrolling the Southern Ocean all yr round, can embark a Sea Sprite and have stern launch and recovery system for the RiB IOT conduct broading parties in all sea states.

          This is the effects of CC 101 and it’s only going to get worse.

  8. Jenny 8
    3 November 2018 at 8:45 am

    The Syrianisation of the World.

    Trump threatens to shoot stone-throwing migrants

    Ahead of next week’s elections, US President Trump said he will sign an order to bar anyone who illegally entered the US from claiming asylum. He also hinted he would let the military shoot at people throwing stones…..

    ……On Thursday, the US president said he had told the US military mobilizing at the border to treat rock-throwing by migrants as equivalent to gun usage.

    “They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. We’re going to consider, and I told them to consider it a rifle. When they throw rocks like they did at the Mexico military police, I say: Consider it a rifle,” Trump said.

    Trump’s violent rhetoric echoes that of Benjamin Netanyahu to his military about Gazans who approach the Israeli border.

    The atrocities committed by the Israeli army against protesters at the border, crimes labeled by some as a genocide, are outweighed by the even greater genocide being carried out in Syria by Bashar Assad a comparison the Israeli’s don’t hesitate to make.

  9. amirite 9
    3 November 2018 at 8:54 am

    ‘But there is now a spring in the step of Labour insiders whose polling suggests National is taking a much bigger hit from the disarray created by Jami-Lee Ross than the Colmar Brunton poll indicates.’ A.Young

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12153414

    • ianmac 9.1
      3 November 2018 at 9:20 am

      The expert pollsters do say that negatives take a while to filter through to the poll. Maybe that is why National seems a bit down in the House in spite of the Immigration problem.

    • ScottGN 9.2
      3 November 2018 at 9:22 am

      And that goes some way to explaining the timing this week of the Sroubek hit-job on Lee’s-Galloway.

      • Herodotus 9.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 10:30 am

        You shoot yourself and now its called a hit job ??
        And his tweet “I want more facts!!! That’s what it’s all about. Why the wall of silence from Govt?” I see that this has since been deleted, but from the thread I gather it was regarding Peter Thiel.

        Remember that ILG used absolute discretion of the minister
        “Ardern would not discuss further details of the case, such as whether Sroubek’s life might be in danger, but said “you can draw a fair conclusion on why the Minister made his decision”.
        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/read-between-lines-drug-smuggler-pm
        And then we are told during Question time that “This is not in the public interest” if not then what would be ???
        Funny the timing of this ???
        Bridesmaid sister gets visa offer following Immigration NZ decision review
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12153884
        note the last Min of Imm (M Woodhouse) has questions to be answered as well
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11837608
        This should have been cauterised, but has been left to fester, That IMO is where the real damage has been incurred.

        • ScottGN 9.2.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 10:41 am

          Did you hear Woodhouse gleefully telling Lisa Owen on checkpoint last night, “but wait, there’s more!” when she asked him if National had more to throw at Lees-Galloway?
          Lees-Galloway has obviously made a hash of the case but Nats have been quietly holding this for a rainy day and, in the wake of the JLR shitfight, it’s been pouring on the National Party.

    • Incognito 9.3
      3 November 2018 at 12:50 pm

      When I have a spring in my step it is because I feel good about myself.

  10. marty mars 10
    3 November 2018 at 9:18 am

    People get demonised all the time in the media. So many (even here) love to put the boot into those struggling.

    Good to read another side of this young mans life not just the sensationalised rubbish used to sell papers.

    James Fleet was a P addict – but a meth cook and drug dealer who got what was coming to him? No. His mother, Bron Fleet, reveals publicly for the first time who her son James Fleet was – a deep thinker who was kind, caring, quirky, loyal, intelligent and loved.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12151856

    • AB 11.1
      3 November 2018 at 9:56 am

      Gosh that’s Key-like, or even worse. Another thing where NZ is not the world leader we naively imagine we are.

  12. A 12
    3 November 2018 at 9:47 am

    Its getting busier in here. 43 comments and only 9:46 am

  14. outofbed 14
    3 November 2018 at 10:21 am

    “People who are antagonistic resonate more with populist messages”
    interesting article in Scientific American

    There are many divides in the world right now. But there’s one divide, deeply embedded into the core of human nature, that helps explain many other divides. What I’m referring to is a source of human personality variation that is built right into our DNA: antagonism.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-personality-trait-that-is-ripping-america-and-the-world-apart/

  15. Morrissey 15
    3 November 2018 at 10:37 am

    We’ve found him! The world’s most useless cartoonist.

    This guy makes Rod Emmerson look like Gerald Scarfe.

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/11/cartoon-3.html/comment-page-1#comment-2350120

    • James 15.1
      3 November 2018 at 1:36 pm

      Lol. The fact that you link to a comment by yourself and refer to yourself as “we’ve”

      Explains a lot.

    • Siobhan 15.2
      3 November 2018 at 2:42 pm

      And Stringer had the nerve to say he didn’t have the means to pay off Colin Craig for defamation. The Court clearly should have instructed Stringer to put together a book of his awesome cartoons to raise the money.

      • Morrissey 15.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 2:57 pm

        But seriously, Siobhan: how on earth could that utterly incompetent fifth-rate cartoonist defame anyone? I imagine it would be something akin to being savaged by a dead sheep, or by our witless friend “James” who sits forlornly just above you in this thread.

  16. Herodotus 16
    3 November 2018 at 10:38 am

    A great low cost opportunity for the govt to be seen and acting that would achieve 100% support of the country … And without having to say why did not any previous govt find this organisation deserving !!!
    JA make an executive decision and grant NZLS $2-5m annually ? Timing would be almost perfect

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/surf-lifesaving-struggling-traditional-funding-sources-dry-up

  17. marty mars 17
    3 November 2018 at 10:54 am

    We can change. Get your youth into this – it may help a lot of people

    “Youth Advisory Group

    If you’re aged between 14 and 18 on 1 January 2019, find out how you can have your say about education in New Zealand.

    Applications are now open and will close on Sunday 18 November.

    To be considered for the Youth Advisory Group you’ll need to:

    be aged between 14 and 18 years on the 1 January 2019
    live in New Zealand
    be respectful of other people’s opinions
    get parental, caregiver or legal guardian consent if you are not an independent youth.
    You can sign up online, or download and complete the PDF version of the registration form, and email to youth.voice@education.govt.nz. ”

    http://www.education.govt.nz/school/student-support/youth-advisory-group/?fbclid=IwAR3Sfb8edmqQHeslWkh21V5rUDaEYZ8FG7wSgAG4Yg9QBYHfAlGZmfbsYEQ

  18. Morrissey 18
    3 November 2018 at 11:07 am

    A couple of moral pygmies discuss military matters.
    (Where the F**K does Mora’s producer find these people?)
    The Panel, RNZ National, Thursday 1 November 2018
    Jim Mora, Susan Hornsby-Geluk, Mike Rehu

    vacuous adj. 1. having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless. 2. (archaic) empty

    Protests at Defence Forum

    Protestors target the representation of US weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin at Palmerston North’s Defence, Industry and National Security Forum. But, NZ First MP Darroch Ball says many other business are taking part which supply “apples, toilet paper, spare parts, electronics, steel and clothing to the Defence Force” and which have a presence in the city.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018669360/protests-at-defence-forum

    MORA: [speaking over intro. music] W-w-what do you think, both of you, about the vigorous protests in Palmerston North at the Defence Industry Expo? Do you have a view?

    SUSAN HORNSBY-GELUK: [inhales and clicks tongue to indicate how thoughtful she is] I think it’s kind of IRONIC that, um, an anti-violence campaign results in a couple of people being assaulted, ahhh, a couple of people assaulting THE police, but, um, I think the point here is it’s not a GUNS expo, it’s really important that this is, like, a defense procurement exercise, and if we’re going to have an army and we’re going to invest millions of, uh, dollars in the army, we clearly need to understand, y’ow, what the best equipment is, so, yeah, I support the right of people to engage in, ahhhmm, peaceful protest but, ah, I do think it might be slightly misGUIDED in this instance.

    MORA: [inhales loudly to indicate moral seriousness] What do YOU think?

    MIKE REHU: Yeah, I, I, I’m the SAME actually. I, I do feel as though we, [baffled sigh] y’know, the industryyyy, y’know in EVERY industry they HAVE these conferences, they HAVE these exhibitions, this is, and ironically in SOME countries yooouu, you SAY “defense” and it’s not defense, it’s OFFENSE, but I think New Zealand HAS to have a DE-fense, and I, I personally worry that, that we-e-e-e, we don’t. I mean, I was just looking at some numbers earlier today, we spend four hundred and twenty-six dollars a PERSON on our DE-fense compared to Australia’s fifteen HUNDRED, which is over four times, and the U.S.has three point one per cent of their G.D.P. spent on defense, ours is like one point one—

    MORA: Yeah.

    MIKE REHU: So we spend a MINUSCULE amount, and you can TELL in the quality of aircraft, boats, and blah-blah-blah that we have. But in these days of, y’know, what they’re calling the sharp POWER where we saw, y’know, ahhmm, the Saudi Arabian fella get, ahhh, get assassinated pretty much, allegedly, in Turkey, ahhh, we’ve seen the North Koreans come down and hit somebody. We’ve seen the Russian spies come in. Now, w-w-we’re pretty harmless down here but we’ve got a lotta things that people WANT in the world, especially our natural resources like water. And we’ve seen, we’ve played NICELY with people, we’ve almost GIVEN [snickers] away some of our resources. But when, now that we’re wising UP a little bit, what if people WAN’ our resources and things down here and, and what’re we gonna do—

    MORA: Is that—

    MIKE REHU: —if somebody comes in?

    MORA: Is that push ever gonna come to shove though?

    MIKE REHU: Well. I mean, surely we should have some sort of sturdy defense anyway, at least SOME capability, I mean, otherwise we WILL have to turn to bigger powers and, and then we’d, we have to, obviously, sign some kind of compromise deals with people and—-

    MORA: Which is what we do now, don’t we. We, we lend them a frigate, or we lend them a, a batch of the S.A.S. and we play our part among a group of nations.

    MIKE REHU: [inhales loudly to indicate how serious he is] Yeah, and, but even with AUSTRALIA, y’know, the relationship we have with Australia, apparently, y’know, a lot of our kit is massively inFERIOR, and we get by with our good soft skills, our good people skills when we’re overseas representing our country in part of these United Nations, ahhhm, combinations. So, y’know, again, coming back to your first question about the expo, ahhhmm, it IS a worry that there MAY be some weapons of OFFense, ahhhm, being shown at this exhibition, but I think if it’s about DE-fense then we should play a part.

    MORA: Here’s Andy Hickman from Peace Action Manawatu, talking about Lockheed Martin’s presence at the expo, and its manufacture of a laser-guided bomb that destroyed a school bus in Yemen in August.

    RECORDED VOICE OF ANDY HICKMAN: Forty schoolboys were killed by that particular bomb, ahhh, Lockheed Martin takes ownership, that WAS their bomb, but they claim no responsibility ‘cos it was fired by the Saudi Arabians, and we say that no, actually, they have a moral and ethical responsibility to take ownership for that.

    MORA: And this is a moral dilemma that in LIVING history goes back to the burden of guilt felt by the men who built the atom bomb. But we also know that everybody sells weapons to the Saudi regime. And, the world of realpolitik, this is a very hard one, isn’t it. And are there any easy answers, and is the, I mean, does New Zealand need to take the clear-cut stand that people like Andy Hickman would like? Or do we have to sidle our way through the world as you’re suggesting?

    MIKE REHU: And I know that these expos and exhibitions have been held in different cities over the years, but for Palmerston North as well, um, that is very close to where a lot of our military happens, and a lot of the economy is, is DRIVEN by the military as well, so I guess we have to be a bit careful that we kill ALL industry around that.

    MORA: Yeah, aah, and New Zealand First M.P. Darroch Ball says a lot of the businesses have a PRESENCE in Palmerston North, actually, and they employ thousands of people right across the country, and it’s as much about apples, toilet paper, spare parts, electronics, steel and clothing as it is about anything else. But just before we leave the topic, ahh, to give the opposite poi-i-innnt, Golriz Ghahraman, writing today, ahhh, talks about the self-steering bullets, tiny killer drones from Israel: “I’ve seen what that looks like on the ground,” she says, referring to her childhood in Iran, “a sea of amputees poured into Iranian cities from the frontlines during the 1980s. Half the world feels like second class citizens, as we did in Iran. Our lives and misery are not as important as the profit being made from war.” So she’s saying, can New Zealand really, with a clear conscience, take part in any of that?

    SUSAN HORNSBY-GELUK: There’s, there’s two different issues in tha-a-a-a-at. One is the, ahhhh, equipment itself, and two is, who’s making a profit from it? But in terms of the equipment itself, IF we’re gonna send guyyyys, aah, to Afghanistan or wherever it is, they need to have whatever the other people have got, otherwise, ahhh, we’re sending them into an unsafe environment. Um, that means they need to have, y’ow, technologically the very best that we ca-a-a-an, uh, possibly provide for them. As to who makes the profit from it, I think that’s a different issue, and I think she’s BLENDING the, um, the MORAL judgement about what war CAN result in, with, aah, the issue of who might make a profit and who might not.

    MORA: [inhaling loudly] These are not easy answers to find, are they not, but I’m, um, pleased to have had your opinions on it.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Later in the program, we were treated to the following classic comment:

    SUSAN HORNSBY-GELUK: I hear the Governor General is a vegan. That’s really cool.

  19. marty mars 19
    3 November 2018 at 11:34 am

    A bigger, deeper read – well worth it imo

    In the first two essays in this sequence, I sketched out the framework of Oswald Spengler’s vision of the process by which great cultures rise, work through their possibilities, and fossilize once those possibilities have been pushed as far as they can go. That vision of history pretty reliably generates a profound unease among people raised in Western industrial societies, for those societies—the heirs of what Spengler named Faustian culture, the great culture that emerged in western and central Europe starting around the year 1000, and holds temporary dominion over the globe—prefer to see history in a different and far more simplistic way.

    In the Faustian worldview, it’s inconceivable that the world’s cultures each have their own possibilities, their own values and insights and ways of understanding the world, which cannot be reduced to any single trajectory. In the Faustian worldview, there is only one range of possibilities open to human beings, the one set out by Faustian culture; all other cultures can be seen only as inadequate attempts to attain the Faustian model. There can be no different but equally valid sets of values and insights and ways of understanding the world; there is simply the Faustian way, which is self-evidently true, and every other way, which is superstitious, benighted, and obviously wrong.

    https://www.ecosophia.net/america-and-russia-tamanous-and-sobornost/

  20. marty mars 20
    3 November 2018 at 12:01 pm

    Evidence.

    I’m so scared I’m having difficulties sleeping,” said André Karipuna, a young indigenous community leader of a protected area in the Brazilian Amazon. According to satellite data from fly-overs commissioned by All Eyes on the Amazon in June and October 2018, his fears are very real. And now after the election of Brazil’s new president, Jair Bolsonaro, even more so.

    Hard evidence of vast deforestation
    They show that forest destruction is four times greater than official data suggests. Over 10,000 hectares of the Karipuna territory have already been destroyed – 80 percent in the last three years alone. This deforestation is not only devastating to the Karipuna community. It also forms a major threat to our climate.

    https://intercontinentalcry.org/new-evidence-shows-willful-destruction-of-the-brazilian-amazon/?fbclid=IwAR0Yco87GTG92xeEX9trnK4X6eEPN4tIyT2P0w86VtENUF41zCX5FF-rtIs

    • marty mars 22.1
      3 November 2018 at 1:56 pm

      yay – give us some good news from the conference about this awesome government and leader please!!!

      • Te Reo Putake 22.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 2:41 pm

        See below, comrade!

        • marty mars 22.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 2:59 pm

          ta – so good to read good news. In some ways I really wish I was in Dunners – visiting mum in south dunedin, visiting my mates around the traps and seeing all the Labour people feeling great about this country and where we are going now. So much more to do and we are at last DOING it. That is the way forward – proud to be a left lingering Kiwi. Proud to call this country home.

    • Patricia Bremner 22.2
      3 November 2018 at 6:01 pm

      Hi te reo putake. Ad has sent some info .. give us your take.

  23. Dukeofurl 23
    3 November 2018 at 1:41 pm

    Seymour goes off half baked and trys to take on the plastic bag ban in supermarkets
    hes says he has some ‘research’

    “Mr Seymour said the government’s decision to ban single use plastic bags could be killing up to 20 New Zealanders a year.
    He said research in the US showed that people using reusable bags were susceptible to diseases such as campylobacter from chicken.

    However, Professor Siouxsie Wiles at Auckland University told Checkpoint this research had already been debunked.

    “So it’s written by two professors of Law and Economics who are not microbiologists or public health experts.

    “They’ve taken a data set around people who are hospitalised or deaths in San Francisco and looked at before plastic bags were banned and then afterwards. They’ve then drawn a bunch of conclusions which if anybody in public health looked at would say no, not true at all.”

  24. marty mars 24
    3 November 2018 at 2:18 pm

    Time to stand up to this atrocious oppression

    “So far, governments have been slow to react to the human rights disaster in China’s far western Xinjiang region. Its sheer scale demands immediate international action. An estimated one million Uighurs and other Muslims minorities are believed to be held in extra-legal detention centres in Xinjiang because of their ethno-religious identity, with torture and ill-treatment rife in the camps. Authorities in partnership with tech companies have developed and deployed dystopian surveillance technologies to turn the rest of Xinjiang into an open-air prison.

    In August, the UN committee on racial discrimination described Xinjiang as a “massive internment camp shrouded in secrecy”. The US congressional-executive commission on China said the Chinese government’s policies in Xinjiang might amount to crimes against humanity. The UK government recently confirmed reports of internment camps for Uighur Muslims following a visit to the region by British diplomats.

    Step-by-step the Xi Jinping regime has crossed thresholds unthinkable years ago, with little repercussion. The government detained nearly every single human rights lawyer over a single weekend in July 2015, imprisoned China’s only Nobel peace prize laureate until he died in custody in July 2017, and earlier this year, abolished presidential terms limits, paving the way for Xi to become dictator for life. The Han-dominated Chinese Communist party is now confident that the only way to govern Xinjiang is to eradicate the distinct Uighur identity in the name of countering terrorism. This cannot continue.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/03/china-is-committing-ethnic-cleansing-in-xinjiang-its-time-for-the-world-to-stand-up

  25. Te Reo Putake 25
    3 November 2018 at 2:41 pm

    Happy to do that, marty! I’ve got some issues accessing the back end of the site, though I hope to have a post up later today or early tomorrow.

    In short, it’s been gloriously upbeat. There have been some rousing standing ovations for the PM, Grant Robertson, and Kristine Bartlett. This arvo is policy amendments (nothing controversial). Then it’s various elections, some of which are tightly contested.

    To be fair, the lack of negative issues has meant its been tough on the media. I can see Audrey Young at the back of the room, absentmindedly chewing on the roast limb of a small child, desperately hoping for David Cunliffe to announce a new tilt at the leadership.*

    *may not be 100% accurate.

    • marty mars 25.1
      3 November 2018 at 2:48 pm

      I’m loving this

      “Mental health is likely to get a significant funding boost, the Finance Minister has indicated in his address to Labour party members.”

      https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/370139/wellbeing-budget-to-give-mental-health-the-priority-and-focus-it-deserves

      I really hope we get serious about this. So many people are suffering and struggling. I am hoping that it is true and that it will be delivered. Everything is crossed.

      • Te Reo Putake 25.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 2:55 pm

        Absolutely it’s a priority, marty. I was talking to a minister about homelessness and they made the point that its a health issue, not just about housing. And others have talked about the links between suicide, depression and violence and mental health. This party cares.

        • marty mars 25.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 3:02 pm

          Good one – so good you get to talk to the ministers – feel a wee bit envious tbh – but pleased it’s you talking to them.

        • Chris 25.1.1.2
          3 November 2018 at 3:05 pm

          Anything about social welfare? Raising basic benefit rates?

        • Morrissey 25.1.1.3
          3 November 2018 at 3:30 pm

          This party cares.

          I’m sure the Labour Party cares a lot more about homelessness than it did in 1984, when in the run-up to the Snap Election it staged a mock soup kitchen in Auckland’s Upper Queen Street to draw attention to the failure of the Muldoon government’s housing policies. Dozens of news media and wellwishers turned up for the event, and were ladled out helpings of soup.

          Unfortunately, a couple of real homeless people also turned up and tried to get a plate of soup for their worthless selves—but were swiftly hustled away by Labour Party “security” before their shabbiness and unkemptness could lower the tone.

          The Labour Party of 1984 was dominated by such caring people as Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Mike Moore, Geoffrey “Footstool” Palmer, and Trevor De Cleene. I hope it’s slightly more caring these days.

          • Chris 25.1.1.3.1
            3 November 2018 at 3:46 pm

            Monty Python-esque. Probably still happen today.

            • Morrissey 25.1.1.3.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 3:51 pm

              I wouldn’t trust Palmer or Moore to look after a dog, let alone have any say in a welfare policy for people.

          • Dukeofurl 25.1.1.3.2
            3 November 2018 at 4:32 pm

            Spreading lies again Moronissey ?

            prove it or remove it.

            • Morrissey 25.1.1.3.2.1
              3 November 2018 at 5:07 pm

              Spreading lies again Moronissey ?

              Excuse me? When have I “spread lies” here or anywhere else?

              prove it or remove it.

              It was reported in the New Zealand Herald in June 1984, and quite possibly in the Auckland Star as well. Why don’t you get off your useless asssss and find it for yourself?

              • Dukeofurl …
                3 November 2018 at 6:01 pm

                Papers past doesn’t go past 1948.
                Online herald site doesn’t mention it.

                If you have it , give a link. But you don’t do you.

                And no Muldoon telling fibs doesn’t count

        • The Chairman 25.1.1.4
          3 November 2018 at 3:37 pm

          Those of lower socioeconomic status are more likely to suffer mental health disorders such as depression and anxiety.

          Depression being a leading cause of suicide.

          Therefore, it would be good to see this coalition Government do more to address low incomes and benefits, thus improving mental health and our high rate of suicide via this avenue.

      • JC 25.1.2
        3 November 2018 at 10:13 pm

        “Finance Minister Grant Robertson has confirmed mental health will be one of the Government’s five priorities in its first Wellbeing Budget,….”

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/11/03/304816/wellbeing-budget-to-prioritise-mental-health

        “The whole point of this is that for too long we’ve measured ourselves on a very narrow basis…so not having every single data point shouldn’t stop us from saying the health of our environment, our people and our communities is as important as our financial wealth.”

        • Incognito 25.1.2.1
          3 November 2018 at 11:49 pm

          At first I thought he was channelling the Greens but this was at the Labour Party annual conference so I clicked on the link and read the article.

          There was a nod to sceptics however, with Robertson saying the Government knew it had to strike a balance between “careful management of the economy and making significant investments in our social progress”.

          “Previous Labour governments have done it, this coalition Government is doing it, and I know that we can keep doing it.”

          He told media afterwards there was “a tricky balance to strike” between maintaining a robust economy and making the investment that was required around the country.

          I read it several times to make sure I got it right but I can’t tell.

          To me it seems he (and Labour) are framing it as two targets that oppose one another or are perhaps even mutually exclusive. And if they’re on an equal footing, which one would a true Labour Party stand for?

          Is Robertson framing it this way to avoid frightening the horses or is he simply showing his personal (and/or his party’s) beliefs on these matters?

          Perceptions matter a lot in politics (and in life) but any decisions (or lack thereof) speak volumes no matter how you frame (spin) things – are we on the cusp of something special?

          • Rosemary McDonald 25.1.2.1.1
            4 November 2018 at 1:16 am

            An earlier newsroom piece….https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/09/05/224294/what-will-the-wellbeing-budget-change

            …and yes!!!! There’s Uncle Bill ‘if there’s a loophole you’d be a fool not to exploit it’ English’s Social Investment plan….https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644993

            His plan for the sick and disabled folk…

            ” the big driver of future costs: long-term invalids and sickness beneficiaries, a group he describes as “this big hard lump of long-term waste of human potential”. ”

            ….was to replicate ACC’s tactics…

            ” If they were ACC customers, we would be spending a lot of money on trying to move them. They cost a bit less on sickness and invalids [benefits], not a hell of a lot less(bullshit), but we do nothing and we are actually doing nothing to reduce this very large long-term liability.” ”

            And that sure worked well…with how many shifted from ACC to SLP and Jobseekers?

            So far….I’m certainly not seeing how this government attitude towards those whose health and disability needs prevent them from being in paid work differ from National’s.

            Policy change to encourage those on benefits to participate in paid employment ( https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-11-2018/#comment-1546092) without increasing the base rate for the SLP for those who simply can’t work sounds like more arbeit macht frei to me.

            Prove me wrong.

            • The Chairman 25.1.2.1.1.1
              4 November 2018 at 9:04 am

              “His plan for the sick and disabled folk… was to replicate ACC’s tactics”

              And with Labour apparently just passing a remit (extending ACC to include illness) can we assume they plan to do the same (replicate ACC’s tactics) albeit a little softer?

          • JC 25.1.2.1.2
            4 November 2018 at 12:32 pm

            Here’s the entire speech here;

            http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1811/S00028/grant-robertson-speech-to-labour-party-conference.htm

            But as Ad says we may have to wait … https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-conference-random-notes/#comment-1546345

            Would prefer to believe we may be on the cusp of something special myself ….

            • Incognito 25.1.2.1.2.1
              4 November 2018 at 12:45 pm

              Thanks for the link to the speech.

              When people are (badly) haemorrhaging you don’t because you can’t wait, you must act there & then. So, I reject that we should sit & wait for ‘something special’ or even for a budget surplus, a healthy economy or what have you.

              This is how I see the main political parties in NZ framing their view [singular] of our society: A is as important as B, but B is conditional on A.

              A logical flaw? Bad framing? Or something else?

    • Craig H 25.2
      3 November 2018 at 4:47 pm

      I couldn’t make it due to family reasons (attending a 50th birthday party!) but I hear our policy remit (extending ACC to include illness) passed!

      • Rosemary McDonald 25.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 4:58 pm

        “I couldn’t make it due to family reasons (attending a 50th birthday party!) but I hear our policy remit (extending ACC to include illness) passed!”

        ?????

        • Rosemary McDonald 25.2.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 5:24 pm

          Craig H…sorry, can you explain your remit? What exactly does it entail? ‘extending ACC to cover illness’…is this the ACC weekly compensation? ACC level treatment, rehab, ongoing support? Heavens forbid to be able to have a resident family member as your paid carer? Only ‘illness’, or would the extension cover those born with disabilities?

          • Chris 25.2.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 5:33 pm

            That Labour could entertain the possibility of extending the scheme to cover those born with disabilities seems too far-fetched. Up there with raising basic benefit levels.

          • Craig H 25.2.1.1.2
            3 November 2018 at 7:05 pm

            The remit encompassed both.

    • Patricia Bremner 25.3
      3 November 2018 at 6:05 pm

      Don’t worry te reo Putake, Audrey has already had a little snide dig and grudging praise for Jacinda “Becoming a PM of substance” So you never know.

  26. ianmac 26
    3 November 2018 at 4:18 pm

    Who loves Bryce Edwards? Not me.

    “Even the pro-Government blogsite, The Standard, is publishing criticisms of the scheme – see: KiwiBuild doesn’t fly. According to this critique, the Government is effectively privatising “state housing land”, to be used by private developers and the KiwiBuild scheme, meaning that most of the land will be for privately-owned houses. It says John Tamihere is correct in his call that development on state housing land in Mangere is akin to “social engineering”…..

    Didn’t know that Kiwibuild was ever meant for low earners. So Kiwibuild becomes fodder for the Edwards with his mates in the Opposition.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12154010

    • Te Reo Putake 26.1
      3 November 2018 at 4:29 pm

      Yeah, this has come up at conference. More explanation about state housing improvements is needed. Kiwibuild is about intervention in a buggered market. Building new state houses is complimentary, but different. Both are good policies.

      • Dukeofurl 26.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 4:44 pm

        So many lies spread by some well known names on Standard
        .
        State housing land is being ‘gifted’ to private buyers.
        Kiwibuild homes have a big subsidy.
        No new State houses are being built.
        That ultra high insulation/glazing is required to make them ‘warm and dry’

        All falsehoods.

      • Muttonbird 26.1.2
        3 November 2018 at 4:49 pm

        And what of the missing middle?

        Those who don’t qualify for state housing and would get laughed out of the bank if they tried to get a $650K mortgage for a Kiwibuild loan. Some of these households don’t even qualify for WFF, FFS. They are hard working families which for a variety of reasons haven’t been able to be stable enough to be seen as good loan material. They have young kids and instead of subjecting them to years of austerity have decided to give them what opportunities they can now instead of scrimping for an ever increasing deposit. Dad slogs his guts out and mum works part time around the kids.

        Did that come up at the conference?

      • Morrissey 26.1.3
        3 November 2018 at 5:10 pm

        Building new state houses is complimentary, [sic] but different.

        complementary.

      • Rosemary McDonald 26.1.4
        3 November 2018 at 5:12 pm

        ” Building new state houses is complimentary,…”

        Building new State Houses is urgent. Demolishing existing State Houses and using any of the land they were built on for Kiwibuild houses is uncomplimentary.

        • Carolyn_Nth 26.1.4.1
          3 November 2018 at 5:32 pm

          The East Porirua scheme is very like the Glen Innes one – building fewer state houses on the land; some Kiwibuild homes there and some homes on the general market.

          The promise is for 150 more state houses than before. But the 2000 state homes being replaced in East Porirua, may not be on that land as far as I can see.

          Basically, it looks like many state home tenants will be moved elsewhere in Porirua – uprooted from their existing community to make way for more homes in the area on the market for the middle classes.

          Why? Why not build the new Kiwibuild and general market homes elsewhere in Porirua, rather than shift the state homes there?

          • Rosemary McDonald 26.1.4.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 5:42 pm

            TBH Carolyn_Nth, my usual talent for being able to seek out the nitty gritty on Government work appears to be failing me. For the life of me I can’t seem to find a one stop website that tells everything a citizen would ever want to know about Government’s plans and schemes for housing. Slogans…yes. But actual hard core nitty gritty from an actual government website (not a ‘partner’ website) is proving a challenge.

            Must be because I’m closer to 86 than 16 and am tuning out. 🙁 🙁

            https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-conference-random-notes/#comment-1546142

            • Carolyn_Nth 26.1.4.1.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 6:01 pm

              The announcement by the government is not totally clear. But, to me ot looks like there will be 150 new state homes on top of the ones already in East Porirua.

              The East Porirua land that currently has 2000 state homes, will be regenerated – ie the existing state homes will be rebuilt, and also on the same land will be Kiwibuild homes, plus homes built by developers for the general market.

              it’s not totally clear to me whether the current 2000 state homes will all be rebuilt on the existing land, or whether some will be rebuilt elsewhere in the wider area.

              The government announcement.

              It links to the Porirua development led by HLC (a subsidiary of HNZ), saying more details there.

              Lots of pretty images, but I’m not seeing any more detail there and it says:

              In Eastern Porirua, we expect physical works to start in 2019. This is a 25-year project, and it is very early days, so the detail is still to come. But we expect the first public housing to be delivered in 2019 and the first KiwiBuild homes in 2020.

              I’m all for 16 year olds getting the vote.

              State Housing Action (includes John Minto) – is sceptical.

              Report on it on Stuff

            • Dukeofurl 26.1.4.1.1.2
              3 November 2018 at 6:04 pm

              HCNZ is one another is kiwibuild.co.nz

          • Dukeofurl 26.1.4.1.2
            3 November 2018 at 5:58 pm

            Who says there will be fewer state houses on the redeveloped land.

            • Carolyn_Nth 26.1.4.1.2.1
              3 November 2018 at 6:03 pm

              It doesn’t say whether or not there will be fewer or the same amount of state homes on the land – a bit vague.

              But, given they are also going to build kiwibuild and general market homes there – will they all fit?

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                3 November 2018 at 6:16 pm

                “… a bit vague.” That’s what I was getting at. Nothing crystal clear.

                “… will they all fit?”

                Yep, they’ll rack ’em and stack ’em.

                https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/25/291004/kiwibuild-a-community-trainwreck

                ““For instance, in Māngere – just one of many projects that the Government is working on at the moment – 2700 state homes are going to be demolished and 3000 state homes are going to be rebuilt, but in a third of the land area.

                “The other two-thirds are going to be KiwiBuild and affordable.

                “By my estimations, in 2700 homes there now, there’s probably 12,000 to 15,000 people in those homes. Multiply that to be 10,000 homes [on the site in total] and we’re looking at 25,000 to 30,000 people living on the same land mass.

                “That’s 30,000 human beings of different cultures, different religions, differing values and life, living in the same space as 12,000 people used to.”

          • Patricia Bremner 26.1.4.1.3
            3 November 2018 at 6:17 pm

            Carolyn look at the video of the speeches… there was a definite statement that locals would be in the communities they loved and had helped form.

            • Carolyn_Nth 26.1.4.1.3.1
              3 November 2018 at 6:49 pm

              Which video? What speeches?

              I do think Labour have learned somewhat from the debacle of Glen Innes. however, the vagueness about some details is concerning.

              I do get the idea that people might be rehoused in greater Porirua, rather than in the area of Porirua where they currently live. But that still might be a disruption for many.

      • Graeme 26.1.5
        3 November 2018 at 5:52 pm

        “Kiwibuild is about intervention in a buggered market”

        I wish people would see that. In previous times people would rent and build up an asset base to move into home ownership. Now, due to a combination of factors that step has become impossible for most people in Auckland and many other areas, and they are trapped in the rental market. KiwiBuild is about moving the people who would otherwise have left the rental market into ownership by “de-risking” the building of lower spec homes for developers (4 bed, 2 bath and office appeals to more buyers, so more are built) and using the power / guarantee of government to drive the cost down. The resulting churn in rental market then helps those further down.

        • Rosemary McDonald 26.1.5.1
          3 November 2018 at 5:58 pm

          “The resulting churn in rental market then helps those further down.”

          Ah! The ‘trickle-down effect’ , I’ve heard about that.

          • Muttonbird 26.1.5.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 5:59 pm

            Yep. Everyone else wait while we look after the already privileged.

          • Graeme 26.1.5.1.3
            3 November 2018 at 10:32 pm

            Probably a poor choice of words there using “down”, but it will allow people to leave the rental market and provide opportunities for others to enter the same limited market.

            But KiwiBuild is really only targeting a very limited group, and it’s an easy and cheap intervention. The targets are, or were, potential National voters being the aspirational young things striving for their first homes. They will be ensuring the Coalition’s second and maybe third term. That’s why 101st keyboard brigade is loosing it’s shit over it.

            There’s a big difference between this and completely rebuilding our social housing infrastructure, it’s been fucked by being run like a hire centre. That will require a much stronger government, with say 75 or 80 seats in the house and the corresponding public support to undertake bold projects. KiwiBuild is a step on that path, both physically and politically.

        • BM 26.1.5.2
          3 November 2018 at 6:10 pm

          How? The people buying Kiwi Build houses wouldn’t be living in some shit box rental in South Auckland.

          They’d be renting out some new place in the better parts of Auckland.

    • bwaghorn 26.2
      3 November 2018 at 5:03 pm

      No need for an opposition party when labours in power . There own side fucks them daily .

      • Muttonbird 26.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 5:09 pm

        Wouldn’t happen if they hadn’t made a hard right turn, bwag. It’s like 1984 all over again.

        • bwaghorn 26.2.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 5:12 pm

          Maybe we should give them a couple more years before deliver a verdict

          • Chris 26.2.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 5:16 pm

            That’s been happening since 1999 – first time back in government since Rogernomics. Trouble is a verdict is never given, just more chances.

          • Muttonbird 26.2.1.1.2
            3 November 2018 at 5:18 pm

            Pretty sure they’ll enjoy their foray into the centre having hoovered up all those soft right wing votes. I don’t have any confidence they’ll do much at all for long term tenants in the face of that.

            Last Saturday was a watershed moment for me because I saw where Labour were going for their survival. I feel they have abandoned a lot of the people who voted for them in the hope they’d get a fairer crack.

            Not to be so far.

            It’s not too late though. They just need to rethink eligibility and support for Kiwibuild accessibility, fast.

            • James 26.2.1.1.2.1
              3 November 2018 at 5:22 pm

              It’s not like it should come as a surprise.

              • Muttonbird …
                3 November 2018 at 5:31 pm

                Nope. You don’t get to comment on this, sorry. You are from the other side. Those who don’t believe in any support for families who find the equation of modern life difficult to comprehend. Families who work super hard but have had mistakes hang around their neck for years.

                I hear the criticisms of the current version of Kiwibuild from the Nats and the right wing but they are criticisms born of simple and automatic opposition to the government, rather than support of low income families finding peace and security in their communities.

                So, GTFO.

                • bwaghorn …
                  3 November 2018 at 6:14 pm

                  Let’s see what the well being budget does next year a??

                • BM …
                  3 November 2018 at 6:15 pm

                  I always prefered Winstons Kiwiland idea, free up and develop land for housing and then get out of the way.

                  Not enough photo ops, feel-good marketing stories in that sort of policy for Labour so it was never considered.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    3 November 2018 at 6:23 pm

                    We’ve seen what problems occur without planning.

                    We see simple calls from the low regulation right wing for more housing – ‘just build them’ – but whenever a house is built there are wider, 100 year factors to be taken into account.

                    I don’t have any issue with Auckland City putting the brakes on wild-west developments because you cannot move these people to work without the right long term strategy.

                • James …
                  4 November 2018 at 8:14 am

                  Hey look at this – I can comment – yaaaay!!!!

                  But hey you were stupid enough to drink the Kiwibuild cool aid when this was so obvious from the outset.

                  You kinda deserve what you get.

      • Patricia Bremner 26.2.2
        3 November 2018 at 6:21 pm

        Careful bwaghorn, you’ll be accused of bias.

    • Rosemary McDonald 26.3
      3 November 2018 at 5:15 pm

      Now, about Ardern referencing Savage and the 1937 launch of State Housing at the Kiwibuild launch.

      • Muttonbird 26.3.1
        3 November 2018 at 5:23 pm

        Yep. Although I believe she said, ‘I’m not going to carry a table’ or words to that effect, the cosying up to Savage while standing next to a portrait of white upper middle class privilege was a huge mistake from JA.

        • Rosemary McDonald 26.3.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 5:31 pm

          She should have gone nowhere near Savage.

          “”If I can hark back to some Labour tradition,” said Ardern, going on to remember the “great father of the Labour Party” Michael Joseph Savage and Norman Kirk, who had one of her favourite sayings: “All one really needs is something to do, somewhere to live, someone to love and something to hope for.””

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12149888

          • Muttonbird 26.3.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 5:57 pm

            Yeah. This government removed hope for tens of thousands of families last Saturday.

            If the Greens could stop navel gazing for five seconds and ramp up their already strong housing policy they could really teach Labour a lesson on this.

            I’d be very happy with a Labour/Green government next term with the Greens making sure Labour didn’t slop down in the centre, fat dumb and happy.

            • Rosemary McDonald 26.3.1.1.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 6:01 pm

              “If the Greens could stop navel gazing for five seconds and ramp up their already strong housing policy they could really teach Labour a lesson on this.”

              Yes. I voted for the Greens. Two ticks. Hoping they’d put on their steel toe-caps and do some proper social advocacy.

  27. Morrissey 27
    3 November 2018 at 5:26 pm

    The rot goes back to that infamous year 1984….

    I had my suspicions about the Lange government from before it was elected. Two things in particular concerned me:

    1) LABOUR’S CRASS, BOORISH, DULL CAMPAIGN

    The choice of the egregious Jennifer Warnes/Joe Cocker song “Up Where We Belong” made me cringe every time I heard it, and pointed to a dire lack of imagination and creativity in the party. Funnily enough, the New Zealand Labour Party’s use of that virtually unlistenable pop song in 1984 was echoed by the Democratic Party eight years later, when Slick Willie’s campaign song was Fleetwood Mac’s equally awful “Don’t Stop Thinkin’ About Tomorrow”.

    2) THE SOUP KITCHEN INCIDENT

    Shortly before the 1984 election, the Labour Party organised a brilliant media event to draw attention to the plight of the poor and homeless under the heartless National government. They organised a mock soup kitchen, to be held at Myers Park. Overtones of the Great Depression, unemployment, sugarbag years….

    The media was invited, and all the Labour candidates they could muster would be there. Talking about poverty, of course. It was a MOCK soup kitchen, of course, but the soup was real, and prepared by one of Auckland’s most renowned chefs, and everyone would of course be served some of this top-grade soup after the speeches.

    A short time before the event was about to get under way, as the assembled guests and dignitaries were arriving, the organisers were annoyed to see that a couple of real homeless men had arrived. They’d seen the mock-up Depression-style “Soup Kitchen” sign and assumed….

    Assumed WRONGLY, it turned out. Labour’s hired muscle for the day escorted the horrible, tatty, unwashed tramps away from the “Soup Kitchen” quick smart, and the Labour Party Soup Kitchen event got under way. There was no further trouble from lowlifes that day.

    • Dukeofurl 27.1
      3 November 2018 at 5:55 pm

      Bullshit about the lowlife escorted from the fake soup kitchen….

    • Ad 27.2
      3 November 2018 at 6:50 pm

      Join Labour and engage in actual stuff Morrissey. Whole bunch more fun than an anecdotal whine 35 years old.

      • Morrissey 27.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 7:42 pm

        Fair point, Ad. I do indeed support Labour, though not uncritically. We need always to be vigilant about what is happening in our party, who is calling the shots, and whether or not they should be entrusted with leading us. It’s worth remembering that a small clique of ideologues took over the Labour Party in 1984 and nearly destroyed it. It’s no coincidence that that Soup Kitchen debacle and that rotten advertising campaign ushered in the regime of Douglas, Moore, Palmer, and Prebble.

      • WeTheBleeple 27.2.2
        4 November 2018 at 6:22 am

        Absolutely.

        • Morrissey 27.2.2.1
          4 November 2018 at 9:37 am

          So, Weeple, what’s your take on the right’s hijacking of the party in the 1980s?

  28. James 28
    3 November 2018 at 5:27 pm

    How disgusting is this.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/11/judge-kavanaugh-s-sexual-assault-accuser-allegedly-admits-she-lied-wanted-attention.html

    “One of the women who accused Supreme Court Judge Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault has apparently admitted she lied and used the allegations as a “ploy” to get attention.”

    Hope she goes to jail for a long time.

    • Morrissey 28.1
      3 November 2018 at 5:35 pm

      If she lied, yes, she should be tried.

      But what about all the other women who testified against this weasel?

    • joe90 28.2
      3 November 2018 at 6:02 pm

      Got nothing on this shit.

      But the saga of Jacob Wohl took a turn this week, when he was unexpectedly implicated in a bizarre plot to smear special counsel Robert Mueller as a sexual predator. The exact nature of the scheme, and Wohl’s involvement, is somewhat unclear. On October 17, a number of journalists reportedly received an e-mail from “Lorraine Parsons,” alleging that she had been contacted by a man claiming to work for a firm called Surefire Intelligence, on behalf of G.O.P. operative Jack Burkman, who had offered her substantial sums of money to make false accusations about Mueller. Yet no reporters were able to verify that Lorraine is a real person. Surefire Intelligence, too, appeared to be fake. When NBC News investigated, they found the Web site was registered to Wohl’s e-mail; a phone number on the site went to a voice mail that provided another number listed as belonging to Wohl’s mother. (Wohl stopped responding to NBC after they asked why his mother’s phone number was in that voice mail.) In perhaps the most amateurish element of the whole sordid episode, Internet sleuths quickly discovered that headshots of Surefire’s purported employees actually belonged to celebrities including Israeli model Bar Refaeli and Austrian actor Christoph Waltz. A photograph of “Matthew Cohen,” allegedly a managing partner at Surefire Intelligence, is simply a darkened image of Wohl himself.

      https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10/jacob-wohl-robert-mueller-sexual-assault-allegations

      • Chris T 28.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 7:57 pm

        I would think most people would find one just as bad as the other.

        In both cases it’s a bloke who has been smeared unjustly

    • Macro 28.3
      4 November 2018 at 3:54 pm

      For a more nuanced take on this article I recommend the following:
      https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/3/18058832/judy-munro-leighton-brett-kavanaugh-trump-tweet.

      Note: This woman was not one of the women to make solid accusations against Kavanaugh. Those accusations still stand. The letter she forwarded was a copy of a letter from an anonymous accuser – Jane Doe – which may or may not be false.

  29. bwaghorn 29
    3 November 2018 at 6:13 pm

    rimmer from act just called for plastic bags to be brought back and people caught littering for the third time should be jailed . Boys lost the plot.🤣🤣🤣🤣

  30. Poission 30
    3 November 2018 at 7:55 pm

    Oumuamua (the messenger) and its sail?”

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.11490

  32. eco maori 32
    4 November 2018 at 9:52 am

    the hui Kia ora Its tricky I think its cool Jacinda’s on your show Its best that all common poor people are lifted up there ladders of life together . Just targeting maori we need unity and targeting maori will just divide Aotearoa society .
    The Labour Party has done a awesome job in there first 12 month’s in the New Coalition
    Government. Ka kite ano P.S I see

  33. eco maori 33
    4 November 2018 at 11:01 am

    All Americana Wahine and minority cultures should houner your Children and Ancestors buy getting up and voting for a better brighter healthy future for all HUMAN KIND. That’s how big a ISSUE The mid term elections in America is at this point in time if you don’t vote that’s a vote for trump and we can not have him letting people think that behaving like a ASS is OK we need and want PEACE and Harmony not War and lies.
    Ka kite ano Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  34. eco maori 34
    4 November 2018 at 11:58 am

    Now All The Latino people in America We Have a link Its a well known fact that Aotearoa New Zealand Ngati Porou iwi has a great Ancestor Jose Manuel .I have a direct link through my Grate-grand mother there was talk about a African link to .
    Don’t let the go oil party or trump rain over our moko /Grand childrens future and your mana/ power get up and vote there people out of power. link to Jose Manuel site below
    Ka kite ano. P.S Don’t let them rain ruin over the WORLD.

    https://www.manueljose.org.nz/whakapapa-233/

  35. eco maori 35
    4 November 2018 at 2:32 pm

    Native American cultures have a lot in common with Native Aotearoa /New Zealand.
    In the way we see and treat most thing’s .Respect for our Ancestors respect for our whenua/land respect for our decedents. ka kite ano vote for your childrens future
    The Navajo, like tribes across the country, have bristled at Trump’s suggestion that tribes should be reclassified as races rather than separate governments, a legal shift that would mean that tribal members were no longer exempt from Medicaid work requirements. Trump’s downsizing of Bears Ears national monument, which was done at the urging of Utah Republicans, has also been a key rallying point for Native Americans link below
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/01/navajo-nation-utah-midterm-election-gerrymandering

  36. eco maori 36
    4 November 2018 at 3:40 pm

    American Wahine / Ladies of all cultures step up and vote so there is no illusion in thoughts of man that you want your daughters treated Equally in all aspects of our Worlds society
    Jordan is part of a blue wave of candidates pushing to change the face of US politics, with record-breaking numbers of women and history-making women of color and Native Americans on the ballot. With progressive stars like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez stunning pundits with victories, there’s a sense among some non-traditional Democratic campaigns that anything is possible. Ka kite ano Link below
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/31/paulette-jones-idaho-governor-native-american-democrat

  37. eco maori 37
    4 November 2018 at 4:35 pm

    Syria need’s peace or million’s will suffer starve and DIE War should be in OUR history books in the year 2018. I have figured out why war has not been left behind GREED
    The White Helmets risked life and limb to save over 115,000 lives during the Syrian conflict, despite attacks at the hands of the Syrian regime and the Russian military,” Hunt said. “The UK is proud to stand behind them.”Raed al-Saleh said Moscow’s record of broken promises meant he had little confidence in a ceasefire brokered between Russia and Turkey in September. The agreement halted a planned advance on Idlib, one of the last parts of Syria still outside the control of President Bashar al-Assad, and currently home to more than 3 million people.Ana to kai ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/03/idlib-jeremy-hunt-syria-russia-turkey

  38. eco maori 38
    4 November 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Eco Maori has a good grasp of the situation in the Middle East and around the World.
    I’m not laying blame on one side or thee other you are both to blame clean this mess
    UP in Syria and the World. Ka kite ano.

  39. eco maori 39
    4 November 2018 at 5:56 pm

    I know the big company’s are manipulating the market’s and push out the new smaller company’s
    “The big retailers are rigging the market to stop smaller players competing and getting bigger prices to the public.In a current situation where there’s a squeeze on gas and lakes are bit a lower, these are the perfect conditions for them to exercise market power. I would expect it the big business all ways cheat to squeezes out the small company’s
    But Marc England, chief executive at gentailer Genesis Energy, said while there was “something unusual” going on, there was no gaming of the system. “There’s no big versus small plot here.” this man is lieing through his teeth.ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/108312588/whats-gone-wrong-with-new-zealands-electricity-market

  40. eco maori 40
    4 November 2018 at 6:48 pm

    Kia ora Newshub Its not the fire works its the idiots using them wrong deliberately
    With the 2 hedge fires in South Island .?????????????? hope its not to bad this year for fires caused by idiots
    The new support staff for teachers is cool the Labour party had a good event in Dunedin in the South Island this weekend.
    That will be cool to have a pest free Banks peninsula that’s more logical than trying to eliminate all pest in Aotearoa.
    The wind is going hard in Itlay at the moment I hope no one was injured global warming no
    There was a Black out in Chicago & Japan this weekend and the Green Irish won to .
    I bet that guy will be wishing his horse does not win the Melbourne Cup lol.
    Good win Israel at your fight in UFC Ka kite ano
    . Alex I have experienced the wind Castle point and Turn again it sure get the Boat rolling thats why its called turn again we would get there and turn for shelter .

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