Open Mike 03/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 3rd, 2018 - 178 comments
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178 comments on “Open Mike 03/12/2018 ”

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  2. ScottGN 2
    3 December 2018 at 7:46 am

    Another train wreck interview by Bridges on Morning Report.
    Wouldn’t confirm that Nats internal polling matched last nights Colmar Brunton and was pretty evasive when Susie asked if it was true that the internal polling had them at 41%.

    • ianmac 2.1
      3 December 2018 at 7:57 am

      I bet Bumbling Bridges was furious that their internal polling was leaked plus it being 5% below CB poll. After all he claimed credit for the 46%.

      • ScottGN 2.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 8:19 am

        Yeah. Whoever it is that’s undermining him in the party was pretty quick to get the internal polling to RadioNZ. He claimed that the Colmar Brunton result was on the back of his leadership which cuts both ways of course if it isn’t sustained.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2
        3 December 2018 at 10:56 am

        Doesn’t the CB poll always have National at 5 points above where it actually is?

    • te reo putake 2.2
      3 December 2018 at 8:24 am

      It was a peculiarly awkward performance from Bridges. He seemed really confused about the principles of compensation, which is odd for a trained lawyer. He waffled something about a ‘fair go’ for HNZ tenants unfairly evicted under National’s meth scare, but then said it shouldn’t be a ‘free ride’.

      Perhaps some clever linguist can develop a Simon to English translation app? It could be really handy until the BBQ season kicks in and Judith makes her move.

    • Pete 2.3
      3 December 2018 at 8:33 am

      Train wreck interviews by Bridges only have relevance to those National supporters worried about leadership.

      Key could’ve lopped a baby’s head off with a slasher on the steps in Wellington and the mass would’ve gone berserk, criticising the parents for not having the baby safe at home. And they would have praised the blood soaked one for drawing attention to bad parenting.

      Bridges might be a goober, incongruous in the role and what is needed (and badly badly wronged by J-L Ross) but he is the leader. Everything he says and does is wonderful.

      And every Curran or Whaitiri or Lees-Galloway incident grows him an inch and them a percentage point.

      • aj 2.3.1
        3 December 2018 at 10:06 am

        He used the term ‘money shot’ in that interview as well. Isn’t he aware that the a common use of that expression is in relation to a certain type of scene in pornographic films?

    • Ankerrawshark 2.4
      3 December 2018 at 4:49 pm

      Just listened boy was it ever a train wreck

  3. DJ Ward 3
    3 December 2018 at 8:11 am

    The male pill.
    You can read this. And walk away thinking its 20 years and a pipe dream.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/in-depth/367461/where-are-all-the-male-contraceptives

    Or go to this link specifically on the pill I talk about.
    https://www.usatoday.com/errors/404

    Yep there’s something funky going on.

    You could search for it and find piles of bullshit where it’s not even mentioned.

    Or you could have followed its progress for a long time, because it’s obviously a great discovery.

    https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/university-says-indonesias-long-awaited-male-birth-control-pill-finally-ready-mass-production/

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/indonesia-closing-in-on-release-of-worlds-first-male-pill/news-story/1d67d7ba1cac88afb88356c2063dd7d6

    There have been no more updates on this male pill since those 2 links that I can find.

    • A 3.1
      3 December 2018 at 8:46 am

      As a female I would feel unsafe trusting a male to handle this. Thus my suspicion would be that market demand is not sufficient to support the product.

      • DJ Ward 3.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 9:14 am

        Grow up. It’s males that can’t trust females. By that logic females should have there contraception taken from them. Female unlike men who haven’t had the chance yet, have proven to be untrustworthy.

        What about females where the pill doesn’t work for them. Can there partners have an option.

        This is about females having power and control over men’s bodies. You expressed it nicely. Women are trustworthy LOL.

        The market demand? What billions of people?

        • Cinny 3.1.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 9:40 am

          What about men, where the male pill dosen’t work or they forget to take it? See it goes both ways.

          Females having control over men’s bodies, pull the other one djw and take control over your own body.

          In the meantime, use a CONDOM, protects against pregnancy and disease. You can get them very cheap via a Dr’s on prescription and then hand them out to all the men you say you advocate for.

          Don’t want to get a female pregnant, don’t have sex. Or have an operation and get ‘fixed’

          In the end it’s all about self control.

          djw, are you debating or talking about the male pill etc on any other platforms? And if so what kind of reactions are you getting?

        • Sabine 3.1.1.2
          3 December 2018 at 9:56 am

          You still have a hard time with that personal responsibility thing?

          You want to have sex without consequences your current choices are

          condom,
          don’t have vaginal intercourse
          do not ejaculate into the vagina
          vasectomy
          abstinence

          that should give you a pretty good degree of safety.

          Seriously, don’t come here with your issues of women and sex, go to the pharmaceutical companies who make the pill and tell them that you want equality, that you too want to take a high does of hormones to keep your little floaters swimming dead on the surface, that you too want all the associated side effects, – i.e. weight gain, depression, thrombosis, etc and maybe maybe you can convince all the other guys who think that pregnancy prevention is women business cause they are the ones to get pregnant. Please go and convince all the men of this planet that they too should pop a pill every day of the year, for some 25 odd years or longer, without complaint, paying up to 35 – 50 $ a month for the pleasure, you know take one for the cause, Or maybe get an injection every three month for some 25+ years, or have an implant etc etc etc.

          • DJ Ward 3.1.1.2.1
            3 December 2018 at 1:57 pm

            There is no side effects to this pill. It’s not hormonal.

            Why should the female experience dictate the male one?
            If you don’t trust men, you control your partners pill. Give it to him every morning. That is DV but it’s OK the police and courts will turn a blind eye.

            Then you don’t need to take your hormonal pill.

            It’s good for you!
            It’s pro women’s health!

        • Molly 3.1.1.3
          3 December 2018 at 11:13 am

          I don’t understand what your point is DJ Ward.

          Are you implying that women, somehow, are deliberately withholding this additional contraception method from the market?

          • DJ Ward 3.1.1.3.1
            3 December 2018 at 1:52 pm

            Not women.

            My legalise the male pill comment is aimed at government.
            While some women, and men don’t like the idea they don’t decide this stuff.

            Capitalist forces are at play here. Political forces in regards to hate men Feminists will also despise the idea of loosing the near complete power and control that women have over men on this issue of contraception.

            Normal people as some comments show, have no issues with male contraception. They are often women with sons who fear the predator female in there lives. They see the harm done to men.

            • McFlock 3.1.1.3.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 2:03 pm

              The predator female, huh?

            • Molly 3.1.1.3.1.2
              3 December 2018 at 2:04 pm

              These superfluous comments:
              “Political forces in regards to hate men Feminists will also despise the idea of loosing the near complete power and control that women have over men on this issue of contraception… They are often women with sons who fear the predator female in there lives. They see the harm done to men.”
              belies the preceding: “My legalise the male pill comment is aimed at government.
              While some women, and men don’t like the idea they don’t decide this stuff.”

      • riffer 3.1.2
        3 December 2018 at 9:15 am

        The lack of a male contraceptive to date should not preclude the possibility of men being able to take a pill every day. To suggest otherwise smacks of sexism.

        • Sabine 3.1.2.1
          3 December 2018 at 10:01 am

          its not that men can’t be counted on to take a pill every day, its that many men don’t think that pregnancy prevention is something they could/should/must do , especially if THEY don’t want children.

          • DJ Ward 3.1.2.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 1:43 pm

            Because they don’t have choice. Give them choice.

            Men think like that?

            I know a group of young males 7 of them from 14 years old. 4 of them ended up in relationships because a child came along, all in the stitched up genre, all are now separated, poor and 2 of them despite trying hardly get to see the child. 1 is dead. 2 of them have rejected females from there lives 100% and now own there own homes, at 30. It is because they saw what happened to their freinds. They however enjoy trips to Asia as holidays.

            • Molly 3.1.2.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 2:05 pm

              “They however enjoy trips to Asia as holidays.”
              I’m really hoping that you are not so far gone as to imply what I believe you are implying here.

              • DJ Ward …
                3 December 2018 at 2:20 pm

                They have needs I guess. Just not ones they can trust NZ females with, due to there experience. One is a very nice guy and has females falling over themselves wanting a relationship with him. So it’s not how he treats women it’s just he can’t trust them.

                • greywarshark …
                  3 December 2018 at 3:03 pm

                  The victim. Women are so hard to understand with their hormones and all, and they’re teasers and can’t be trusted while men are all heart and brawn and go boldly out into the world, just to have some tart stick her leg out and trip him up. Who or what is trying to stop this victim having a male pill as contraceptive? Or is it that the world is agin him?

                  It has been known however, since men and moralistic women in government insisted, that single mothers lie about paternity. They might decide that they like one of their sexual partners best, and say it is his baby. It’s all brought about by 19th century morality invading the poncey government.
                  If they gave women the education to bring their children up to pre-school, then the training so they could get some part-time work while still being supported, women wouldn’t want to identify with some bloke who when seen in the sunlight, doesn’t look a good option for looking after an ant farm.

                  Dear government – your welfare policies have never worked and you have driven men and women apart. They will die and never understand each other. Please try to assist good communities to form where everyone does some work to help make it thrive, with big opportunities and little outright poverty – you pollies and civil service have had billions spent on your salaries and you have performed poorly and wasted our time and created a bugger’s muddle.

                  And the problems of sex without the pregnancies, getting hold of contraceptives would be, you’d think, made easy and give you mana for taking adult responsibility!

                  In Australia in the early 1970s some chemists wouldn’t stock them. Brash ole Aussie and they couldn’t cope with condoms.

                  I remember the Irish joke about a family from down south which didn’t allow contraceptives, and they had got hold of some. The husband said his wife was always falling pregnant, and he was going to take them himself to make sure there were no more,

                  Ireland has got the idea of contraceptives at last – the memories of how hard it used to be:
                  https://www.thejournal.ie/open-thread-do-you-remember-when-buying-contraceptives-was-illegal-681590-Nov2012/

                  I think the problem with the guy on this blog is that he hasn’t cultivated a sense of humour. This excerpt below comments on the need for humour, illustrates how humans love putting other groups down, in this case the Kerryman, and also that humour can save a nation I think. With all that has happened to Ireland over the centuries it is still bouncing and bounding, especially the dancers.

                  [In Ireland] Des MacHale, not in his capacity as Professor of Mathematics, but wearing his funny hat as the man who wrote Ireland’s best-selling paperback ever, The Book of Kerryman Jokes. “Ask him,” the cabbie said, beginning a flow of jokes which ceased only when we reached the university, “if he knows how you spot the Kerryman on an oil rig?”

                  He did. “He’s the one throwing the bread at the helicopters,” said Professor MacHale, pointing out that this was a classic ethnic joke, combining as it did an awareness of technology with a contempt for another group. “Humour is as important in waking life as dreaming is in sleeping,” he said. “You need to laugh every day … It’s significant that you can’t make a clinically depressed person laugh … People who never laugh are crazy. So are people who laugh all the time,” he laughed.
                  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/why-did-the-irishman-break-the-rules-1365723.html

                • Molly …
                  3 December 2018 at 4:27 pm

                  DJ Ward. I don’t think you realise that you are more offensive than the behaviours that apparently offend you.

                  Your cavalier dismissal of the holidays to Asia for the meeting of “needs” requires a stronger stomach than mine to unpick.

                  But let’s have at it.

                  1. Women who live in circumstances that have little hope for improvement, will often take what is on offer – even if that is the hope of a relationship or material gain from sex. Your friend, knowing this, takes those “holidays” for the purpose of exploitation – not intimacy.

                  2. Trust – strangely enough – is a two way street. The more consistently you treat someone well, the stronger their trust will be in you. Something to consider.

                  3. Women that demand respect and consideration, are often those that will also give it in return. If you are finding otherwise, you might ask yourself what it is that you are offering, and whether you are being paid back in kind.

                  You are consistently denigrating females en masse here, and you should stop.

                  Not all relationships are meant to last, and each ending should give you insight into your contribution, not only another person to blame for your unhappiness. Aligned with your misogyny your comments make for uncomfortable reading. Not because they are providing inconvenient truths, but those perspectives have harmed women for many years – and continue to do so.

      • JanM 3.1.3
        3 December 2018 at 9:38 am

        I think it’s a good idea for both to be available, then the choices are available to every individual

      • Sabine 3.1.4
        3 December 2018 at 9:45 am

        Its your responsibility to prevent any pregnancies you don’t want. So you continue to take the pill, IUD, etc to make sure you can’t get pregnant.

        the pill for the men is to assure that they can prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Mind in the meantime they can use condoms, or the pull out method, or the never put it in there in the first place method, or vasectomies.

        I don’t understand how hard it is to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Its only hard if one expects the other to pull the hard work.

        So yeah, bring on the pill for men. Let them too eat that darn thing every day until their sperm is dead. And sadly for them, they don’t have menopause, so for as long as they are sexually active they can pop a pill, every day, preferable at the same time no matter what. With all the side effects that come with taking it.

        • DJ Ward 3.1.4.1
          3 December 2018 at 10:00 am

          There is no side effects to this pill. It doesn’t kill sperm or cause sterility. It unlike the female pill is non hormonal. So profoundly better.

          It doesn’t exclude both parties taking contraception.

          It will significantly reduce abortion rates, and increase babies coming into this world supported by both parents. That is good for women.

          • Andre 3.1.4.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 10:06 am

            Which pill? The indonesian one? That has yet to go through large-scale clinical trials and be released for general use?

            You’ve implied previously that there’s some kind of legal obstacle to it’s use. As far as I can tell, the only legal obstacle to it being marketed and sold here is that it has yet to demonstrate to the relevant authorities that it is safe and does what it claims to do.

            • DJ Ward 3.1.4.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 10:16 am

              The links show they needed to do one last year long trial. It has already got thousands of years of safe use behind it. It’s has been trough the start trials as well as the 350 person trial which was a great success. That should have been finished, where’s the update?

              NZ medical research is 94% female health issues. There is no reason why some money couldn’t be allocated to help. Women who can’t use contraception could have there partners in a trial. There is desperate need there.

              Overpopulation is the major driver of climate change.
              This solution, male contraception is desperately needed to stop or reverse population.

              Climate change and poverty cannot be stopped without stoping population growth.

              • solkta …
                3 December 2018 at 10:18 am

                The New Zealand fertility rate has been at replacement level since the late 60s.

                • DJ Ward …
                  3 December 2018 at 2:00 pm

                  Globaly it’s not.

                  • solkta …
                    3 December 2018 at 2:21 pm

                    I’ve been assuming you live in and have been talking about NZ. Or at least the NZ in your mind.

                    • DJ Ward …
                      3 December 2018 at 4:21 pm

                      The NZ effect would help with a few small number issues. But most importantly it would increase the rate children are planned and wanted by both parents, presently 60% of births. It would also lower the number of abortions.

                      Good for women, men, and children.
                      Unless you are a woman who can’t get a man to consent to having a child. Then they would hate the idea of male contraception. Got a few suspicions there is a few like that.

                      Globally anything we do to lower the birth rate to 2.0 to 2.1 is a vital change in dealing with poverty, wars over resources, and climate change.

                    • Descendant Of Smith …
                      3 December 2018 at 9:31 pm

                      Pretty sure the world is making good progress on reducing the birth rate without a male pill. Presumably as the oldies die off we’ll see a drop in population at some point. Pretty much what we are seeing already in some rural areas now.

                      http://www.who.int/whr/1998/media_centre/50facts/en/

                      World Health Organisation.

                      “Globally, the population of children under 5 will grow by just 0.25% annually between 1995-2025, while the population over 65 years will grow by 2.6%.

                      The average number of babies per woman of child-bearing age was 5.0 in 1955, falling to 2.9 in 1995 and reaching 2.3 in 2025. While only 3 countries were below the population replacement level of 2.1 babies in 1955, there will be 102 such countries by 2025.”

          • Sabine 3.1.4.1.2
            3 December 2018 at 10:08 am

            use a condom.
            dont have vaginal intercourse
            don’t ejaculate into a vagina
            don’t have sex
            have a vasectomy

            these are currently your options of pregnancy prevention. Use them.

            And thus you will prevent any pregnancies you don’t want, or that you and your partner don’t want. So until the pill for men arrives – and believe me, us women we don’t mind if you guys go on the pill – why don’t you promote the current options available to young and old men.

            So many pregnancies prevented once men learn how to fuck responsibly. Cause a 100% of all babies were made with the involvement of men. Women alone don’t make babies. They might have them on their own, they might raise them on their own, but they sure as heck don’t make them on their own.

            Start owning up to that fact and then you might be able to tell us women what is good for us.

            • Andre 3.1.4.1.2.1
              3 December 2018 at 10:19 am

              “100% of all babies were made with the involvement of men.”

              Are you including some stranger the mother has never even met wanking into a jar in a far away place as being involved? Or are you excluding that and counting on rounding up to make the 100% true?

              Sorry to divert, sometimes I can’t help myself getting pedantic about numbers.

              • Sabine …
                3 December 2018 at 10:28 am

                Biology 101, sperm meets egg – baby making in action.
                I think we can agree on that.

                And yes, that includes IVF and such. Cause unless you know of a method where no sperm is involved in the fertilizing of the egg, all babies were made with a 100% involvement of men, even the men that just sit in a booth wanking into a jar for a few bucks..

                Essentially if we really want to prevent unwanted pregnancies we need to involve the men, educate them to their part, their responsibility in using widely available contraception methods available to them.

                btw, the women who gets IVF in order to conceive most likely don’t consider that pregnancy ‘unwanted’ .

            • DJ Ward 3.1.4.1.2.2
              3 December 2018 at 10:19 am

              I will not promote condoms for contraception. I would be lying to a person if I called it contraception.

              Men do this, men do that.

              Women. Stop lying about being on the pill.

              • Sabine …
                3 December 2018 at 10:30 am

                hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

                and there you go.

                You don’t want the pill for men anymore then you want to use a condom.

                Personal responsibility is just not for you ey?

                • Whispering Kate …
                  3 December 2018 at 11:39 am

                  Sabine, with the way men protect their crown jewels and think they are God’s gift I cannot see in the future they will take the risk of messing up with side effects, the ability to ejaculate and enjoy the pleasure of it. Even trying to get men (in general here guys) to go and have a vascectomy and actually get a scalpel near their precious jewels can be a problem. And, another thing, its difficult for the medical profession to get guys to have a test for their prostate with the horror of a digital exam – the poor precious ones shudder and can’t face it (again generalising here guys). Some will not even have surgery for the prostate as it can impede in cases again, their ability to ejaculate.

                • McFlock …
                  3 December 2018 at 12:11 pm

                  I saw a comedian on telly the other night – she reckoned getting men to wear a condom was like trying to get a 5-year old to put a raincoat over their halloween costume.

                  It was a pretty good routine – ‘but nobody will seee it! It’ll ruin everything!”

              • Cinny …
                3 December 2018 at 11:06 am

                djw… Wow, so you don’t want to promote safe sex, ie using condoms for contraception and disease prevention, yet you rant on and on that women trick men into getting pregnant.

                Then go on and on about the need for the male pill.

                Hypocrite much? Far out.

                You’ve claimed you’ve advocated for men for years, wtf are you teaching them?!!!

                Or maybe you’re just some weirdo who keeps bring up a sex narrative due to your preferred subject choice. Box of tissues on your desk?

                • DJ Ward …
                  3 December 2018 at 12:50 pm

                  Read the literature on condoms and STI or pregnancy.
                  It reduces risk, a little.

                  Condoms are good for AIDS but the rest it’s not far off pointless. One night stands yes but long term relationships it’s completely pointless.

                  Why safe sex?

                  Aren’t I promoting getting the male pill.
                  An improvement for safe sex.

                  I avoid many subjects here.
                  I do however see this “male pill” as creating profound positive change for men. Which is why I focus on it.

                  You went strait to the not listening to the man, he must be a pervert. Don’t argue the issue, nothing to see here.
                  Just accept I’m a red blooded male, and a pervert. True or not.
                  Can you still argue your point.

                  I have advocated for years, more so in the last 5. Most of those issues are around sex and the results of sex. I talked on the radio about why legalising prostitution was the right thing to do for example. You might think that was a women’s issue.

                  Advocating for and teaching is seperate things with seperate audiences.

                  If I wanted to teach I would stand outside of high schools with pamphlets for the boys outlining the sex crimes and financial crimes they are being subject too. That’s a possibility by the way and has been discussed as an option.

                  Did you know that for each child you have there is a 10% chance it’s not yours. Labour thinks it’s OK.
                  Congratulations for not being violent. However you will be punished and thrown out of your home because you are a boy if she is violent.
                  New Zealand is one of the only nations with a closed court. The Family Court. You will loose your right to speak, present evidence, question evidence, become subject to personality testing, and endless anti male bias.

                  • McFlock …
                    3 December 2018 at 1:10 pm

                    I’m not sure 70-90% counts as “a little” or “not far off pointless”.

                    And the male pill won’t be much better in practise.

                    As for the rest of it, even if the family Court is as one-sided as you say (and that’s not the experience a male friend of mine had with it as I supported him through a separation), why might that be?

                  • Cinny …
                    3 December 2018 at 2:48 pm

                    djw

                    While you are waiting on the male pill what kind of contraception do you advocate for?

                    Where else do you air your views on said topic?

                    Which political parties support your opinions?

                  • greywarshark …
                    3 December 2018 at 3:22 pm

                    Condoms provide the barrier enabling safe sex. The HIV guys have suffered a lot because they went at it, didn’t use them all the time, or didn’t replace them before forging on to repeats, and the damned disease got them and keeping alive happens, but the side affects can make you feel awful apparently.
                    Do the blokes blame each other?

                    I hope that DJ Ward will be seen off sometime in the future, I can’t stand this warped scion of some site for obssessives repeating his spiel about everything which ends up being negative. This guy has a sharp chip on his shoulder that will cut through his clavicle and fall to the ground and on the way cut his dick off. And it will be our fault.

    • McFlock 3.2
      3 December 2018 at 12:14 pm

      Yay, finally you provide links (although one is paywalled and the USAtoday one is broken).

      Basically, the Indonesian one has small scale tests done and looks promising. But it looked promising ten years ago.

      I also think you underestimate the likelihood of a guy saying he’s on the pill just to get laid.

      • DJ Ward 3.2.1
        3 December 2018 at 1:15 pm

        Your passing the blame again.

        Your comment can be said about women. Nobody is going to take the female pill away. The difference will be a guy lying about being on the pill to get consent for sex will result in prosecutions of men, but men only. The police will check medical records for prescriptions and computers for admissions of lying.

        “That update finally came earlier this month, when Airlangga University announced that testing on the pills had finally been totally completed and they have signed a deal with pharmaceutical company PT Harsen Laboratories to begin mass production in the near future.”

        See my point. It is ready. It has thousands of years of safe and trusted use already. It just needs governments to say yes. The Indonesians who’s contraception policies are not great due to theology, put another roadblock in the way. The US and NZ reject it not because it’s trailed safe because it is, but because the US drug companies didn’t create it, under there regime. Corruptly halting progress.

        There is no stoping our Government stepping up with a large scale trial with high risk males and families that female contraception fails.

        • McFlock 3.2.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 1:57 pm

          The difference will be a guy lying about being on the pill to get consent for sex will result in prosecutions of men, but men only. The police will check medical records for prescriptions and computers for admissions of lying.

          You don’t log it in “medical records” whenever you miss a day.

          And yes, men will get prosecuted because, once again, making someone pregnant without her consent is not the same as fertilising seed he left in your vagina.

          It is ready. It has thousands of years of safe and trusted use already. It just needs governments to say yes. The Indonesians who’s contraception policies are not great due to theology, put another roadblock in the way. The US and NZ reject it not because it’s trailed safe because it is, but because the US drug companies didn’t create it, under there regime. Corruptly halting progress.

          Tinfoil hat territory.
          Lots of “traditional” treatments aren’t as safe as you seem to think, and a trial of 300 people will not expose lethal side effects that affect people on a per 100000 basis. Which you need to consider if you want half a billion men taking them. The absence of large scale trials means “production” might be soon, but actual availability will be ages away.

        • Molly 3.2.1.2
          3 December 2018 at 8:38 pm

          “Nobody is going to take the female pill away. The difference will be a guy lying about being on the pill to get consent for sex will result in prosecutions of men, but men only. “
          You have combined more than two issues here.
          1. Lying for personal reasons – doesn’t make a difference whether male or female.
          2. Equating the use of a contraceptive method with consent – as if it is the only requirement.
          3. Ignoring the issue that informed consent should be the precursor for sexual relations – and that means that both/or all parties have not withheld necessary information or deliberately lied.
          4. Everyone has the ability to safeguard themselves from unwanted pregnancy or disease by using contraceptive methods or devices – whether or not the other party involved has done so.
          5. You also ignore the historical and current societal mores that most often censure the woman for unplanned pregnancies and any resultant children. You speak of the female pill as if the benefits have been only for females, and not for many couples the world over, even though the medical costs and side effects are carried by women.

      • DJ Ward 3.2.2
        3 December 2018 at 1:22 pm

        You can get the paywall to go away if you clear your history and data, reset network settings. But it only allows one visit. Some devices.

        The USA Today was because it was a link but it got deleted.

        Something funkey going on.

        • McFlock 3.2.2.1
          3 December 2018 at 1:54 pm

          You directly pasted the link to a 404 error page – i.e. it was broken when you pasted it.

          • DJ Ward 3.2.2.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 3:08 pm

            It was a link to this topic, this pill. When do news organisations delete articles?

            Titled, Indonesia delivers effective male pill.

            • McFlock 3.2.2.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 3:29 pm

              No article would ever be in an “/errors/404” address. That’s a default page. What was the article called?

              If this is the article you were looking at, yet again the pill being tested is still in the early days of human trials, even smaller scale than the Indonesian one. Seems to have a completely different mechanism, though, so there are at least two promising avenues for teenage boys to not bother taking because their appreciation of consequences sucks.

              • DJ Ward …
                3 December 2018 at 4:06 pm

                No it was titled as I stated.

                The last thing you want to do is give hormones to humans.
                Look how much problems it gives women.

                The Indonesian pill works on preventing the sperm entering the egg. This is due to the egg requiring a chemical signature to allow the sperm to penetrate the egg. The pill stops that chemical.

                No hormones. Unless you want men to grow breasts.

                • McFlock …
                  3 December 2018 at 4:44 pm

                  Dude, I’m genuinely trying to help you find a USA Today article.

                  I got the indonesian pill info from the other working link.

                  Basically, maybe ten years. Not because of conspiracies or sexism, but because a study of 300 people tells us fuckall about safety. Basically “probably doesn’t kill all that many people immediately”.

                  • DJ Ward …
                    3 December 2018 at 5:12 pm

                    Yes I realise your a good person McFlock. I can tell by your comments.

                    It’s frustrating as I’ve done a lot of looking myself.

                    The last information was in March 2017, the factory is ready to go and they are starting a 1 year study to get final approval.

                    This is a traditional medicine, probably the most amazing ever discovered. It has done staged trials, and yes the number 350 was small. The results were fantastic health wise.

                    Compared to any other medicine, which have huge side effects, this showed benifits to health. And near perfect effectiveness with only 1 pregnancy and 1 patient presenting with a health issue. Both could be events relating not to the pill.
                    If 10% showed any sign of issues I would want it studied more and wouldn’t present my point of view about legalising this product. It is only government roadblocks stoping this.

                    If 100% of males that get this pill must sign up to study. Before and after blood tests etc then fine. But let’s not twiddle our thumbs over perdantics. Many drugs get fast tracked in the public interest.

                    Why the silence 1 year 8 months later?

                    • McFlock …
                      3 December 2018 at 5:34 pm

                      It’s not actually a traditional medecine – from your other article, it’s an artificial synthesis of the active ingredient(s?) of a traditional therapy. Aspirin compared to willow bark, sort of thing.

                      The government roadblocks are there for safety – if the enzyme action causes total liver failure in 0.01% of people, then if a million men take it regularly that’s 100 dead men (and probably thousands more with liver damage). Or any other side effect.

                      Very few drugs get “fast tracked” and then only in extremely urgent circumstances – ebola vaccines and new antivirals to stop an emerging pandemic, that sort of thing.

                      Basically, most medical studies are run by small teams and have a very narrow criteria of viable subjects: completely healthy, can be monitored regularly, and other criteria (e.g. fertility-wise you’d want sexually active and fertile men whose partners are healthy and fertile and neither of whom are using other contraception). Then you need to find enough of them to achieve the required level of sensitivity to safety problems, and longer term monitoring to confirm that it is reversible and has no longer-term side effects.

                      That’s why they take so long to get general release. All of them. Viagra was five years of trials before the ED effect was notices, and another five years (and you know pfizer prioritised the hell out of it because $$$$$) before it gained FDA approval.

    • DJ Ward 3.3
      3 December 2018 at 5:43 pm

      One of the big issues here is this.

      ……..

      Bambang said he received an offer worth billions in funding and lab facilities from a major U.S. firm, which he declined to name. The corporation, he said, also wanted his patent on the pill, which Bambang and his university secured in Indonesia. The offer was declined.

      ……..

      The US tried to buy him out.
      Now things are going nowhere fast. His research is not accepted in the US. Unless a US company owns It.

      They would not have offered billions if this isn’t the male pill we end up using.
      They will simply stall this until the patent expires.
      Then the US will majicaly have the male pill on the market sold by US companies.

  4. Adrian Thornton 4
    3 December 2018 at 8:15 am

    Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism.
    by Kristen R. Ghodsee

    Ever wondered why Judith Collins, Maggie Barry and many of the woman of the National Party seem so tense and often angry, well at least a partial answer could well be contained in this book…but seriously here is a very good audio interview with Ghodsee and Doug Henwood from Behind the News..(it is the second interview)
    https://kpfa.org/player/?audio=299484

    Meanwhile it turns out that people are now having less sex than ever, so not only is Liberalism destroying the planet it is destroying the sex lives it’s inhabitants.
    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170508-the-many-reasons-that-people-are-having-less-sex

    Turn Labour Left! …you know it’s gonna be good.

    • DJ Ward 4.1
      3 December 2018 at 10:06 am

      Men are rejecting sex in movements like MGTOW. Increased social isolation is a factor. Men can find it easier to get release, or satisfaction from porn, rather than jumping the hoops to get consent with there partners.

      Plus sex for many males comes with genuine fears, often as a result of generational observation.

      • Sabine 4.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 10:10 am

        you might want to rethink this phrase

        ” rather than jumping the hoops to get consent with there partners.”

        • DJ Ward 4.1.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 10:29 am

          Why? your not suggesting men don’t need to get consent are you, because I don’t.

          I’ve had different experiences myself. What you might call normal. A partner that was a nympho and paranoid jealous, a partner that any attempt to engage in sex came with conditions like, not until you do this and that.

          • Sabine 4.1.1.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 10:32 am

            Consent, is your best friend.
            I think you have issues with women. I think you are full of bile and misery.
            But for what ever it is worth, Consent, on both sides, is your friend.

            bye now.

          • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.2
            3 December 2018 at 11:01 am

            Um if thats true then maybe you should wonder why it is you attract these types…or why you’re attracted to those types?

            • DJ Ward 4.1.1.1.2.1
              3 December 2018 at 12:02 pm

              Don’t worry, Prof Michael Gurain wrote about the very small group of people I fit into. He predicted my relationship results dead on too. Why I pair up with dominate females that normal men reject.
              I’m the last person you would present as a normal result. I also in learning about myself can also see how my biological error was the biggest influence to outcomes. In hindsite I walked out on the love of my life. Something I regret.

              I am extremely lucky to have the partner that I have today. After 17 years the sex life is crap but that’s 100% my illness causing that to happen.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                3 December 2018 at 12:06 pm

                Nice

              • Cinny …
                3 December 2018 at 7:47 pm

                djw

                Ok I think I may get where you are coming from, ie your angle re the male pill. Due to your honesty above, much respect for being brave enough to share.

                Don’t agree with all your views, but I get where you are coming from now.

          • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.3
            3 December 2018 at 11:37 am

            There is at back of all relationships, a feeling that draws one person to another. Psychologists have done studies on it but I can’t remember a good one to link to. The thing is that if you keep finding friends and partners unsatisfactory, then it shows you are looking for something in your intimates that fits with something in your mind that is unsettled and at odds with your conscious mind.

            Quora have a model that gives coverage of the idea of mind; the conscious, the preconscious (subconscious) and the unconscious level.
            https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-subconscious-conscious-and-unconscious-minds

            If you can see what draws you to the wrong sort of person and why; hints from your unconscious and then traced to the subconscious, then you can change your mind literally, with a result that gets you closer to someone who you can be happy with with mutual respect.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2
          3 December 2018 at 11:12 am

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Social_interaction

          Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters

      • Adrian Thornton 4.1.2
        3 December 2018 at 10:21 am

        @DJ Ward, If you have time listen to the interview with Ghodsee in the link above, she covers some of the comments you made with observations that you may very interesting, or at least thought provoking.

        • DJ Ward 4.1.2.1
          3 December 2018 at 11:29 am

          Yes very good listen. Says similar things to me but from the female side of the issue.

          Increased Childcare options. (Getting better, but workplace scemes needed)
          Parental leave for women, and men. (Presently bigoted)
          No restrictions to females in the workplace. (Some minor issues)
          Sex education for the young. (Don’t have)
          Social structures (isolation is a massive problem)
          Contraception (presently bigoted)

          I think wealthy men are naturally advantaged sexually under capitalism. Under socialism it may lesson but it wouldn’t disappear. The poor man is seriously harmed at present. Much of that is policies protecting the mother child relationship under the guise of Feminism but really it’s the mechanisms of power and control, a corrupt legal Proffesion, and offsetting male incomes compensating the crown. Even under socialism, as NZ is to an extent socialist towards motherhood poor males will still be harmed. This is due to parenting not being on the basis of equality causing severe disadvantages for men.

          Men who are harmed by sex generally abandon the left as they in protecting and helping women, seriously harm men. They trend to the right in response, and can lessen or abandon sex as a result. Erectile dysfunction driven by psycologicaly being harmed by sex can be a result as well.

          Sexual freedom only exists without fear and harm.

          Capitalism will not want present issues solved as population growth creates artificial economic growth. Broken relationships causes housing demand. Persecuting groups to keep them poor creates opportunity for exploitation and wealth transpher. The taxpayer pays tax, the broken unemployed male needs accomodation supplement, it is handed to a rich person.

          Thanks for that link. Yes making me think a little about my own conclusions. New that bit of history existed but good to hear some details.

      • greywarshark 4.1.3
        3 December 2018 at 11:45 am

        The things you say can equally be applied to women I should think. More enjoyment of knowing each other, some commitment to wellbeing, respect, they might get a more pleasant relationship. Not starting sex out of curiosity when still in second form would stop it being a constant each day.

        I read of blokes in the USA who attack women because they won’t go out with them, and presumably they want to have sex. It might be a case of seeing so much on television and films where people just jump into bed and go for it., that it seems easy and has been normalised. But where is the love the enjoyment of the other being’s reality. It can become just a jerk-off, something to use along with the alcohol to get a buzz. Porn just encourages the feeling of being a person attached to a dick, not the other way round.

      • Molly 4.1.4
        3 December 2018 at 4:55 pm

        I had a look at the MGTOW website, just in case it is your failure to represent coherent views rather than those views themselves.

        No, the website looks put together by sullen adolescents, with as much cogent thought as would be expected.

        There are many here that are engaging with you honestly, even to the point of ignoring your inconsistencies. I’m thinking you have a lot of growing up to do before you will stop and consider their comments.

        • DJ Ward 4.1.4.1
          3 December 2018 at 6:33 pm

          I’m not a supporter of that movement. I want men and women to be equal partners in this world, not seperate. They are what I don’t want to happen.

          Its creation is however a symtom of hurt men in our community. If your not interested in why then fine. Your put downs solve nothing. You only seek to silence them with denigration.

          Yes I get things wrong. But I will fight for what I believe to be true. It’s up to you to prove me wrong. Then I can move on to the next problem. I do listen to comments. I learnt a lot today and have changed my thinking a little, not much but positive change, and more correct because my inconsistencies were exposed and commented on.

          • Molly 4.1.4.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 7:00 pm

            I am really having difficulty following what your train of thought is then. You posted that reference alongside a disparaging remark about consent with sexual partners.

            You perhaps can see how that comment is aligned with that movement.
            It’s creation is not necessarily a result of “hurt men” in our community. it may also be a result of men who find that previously accepted norms for sexual behaviour and relationships are no longer acceptable, and who are resisting change.

            I also try not to put down commentators, but I stand by my comments on that website. The graphics on the homepage would be an embarrassment for anyone over the age of sixteen, and so would the information provided. If anything I was being charitable. Men are not so easily silenced in our society, I don’t believe a critique on their movement will do that.

            But I would point out that your stated desire for equality is not supported by many of your other comments here.

            Do you think that men and women are treated equally at present?

            • DJ Ward 4.1.4.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 7:57 pm

              I have looked into that movement, it’s filled with hurt, and scared men. I have had conversations with them so I know quite a lot more than you think I do about why and what caused them to become a movement.

              I do not think men and women are equal in NZ. There are issues that people who advocate for women are trying to address. There are issues that people who advocate for men are trying to address.

              Some of those people, men and women, seek perceived equality at any expense to the other gender.
              I seek solutions that solve problems and stops discrimination resulting in better outcomes for men. But I do my best to reject those solutions if they harm women. I need perspective to my thinking when I don’t see that harm. So thanks to everybody that joins me in the sewer of men’s issues, and tells me I’m full of crap ‘because’.

              Yes I can be blunt at times or make a comment without giving a 200 word essay to why I said it. I may say women are committing this crime, but behind that is the desire to stop the offending not punish. Men committing this crime do it because, is not justification but identifying the cause with a desire to address the cause. The limitations of this type of communication and my personality.

              • Molly …
                3 December 2018 at 8:25 pm

                DJ, most of us can work with personality, it does not prohibit discussion.

                I’m having difficulty following your salient points. You seem to make definitive statements, and then contradict yourself with later comments.

                Regarding your involvement with posters on the MGTOW, it is possible to have sympathy for those that are distressed, without reinforcing the thinking and perspectives that stop them from meaningful engagement. You post comments on here that do not support your stated desire for equality, and also that are dismissive of both consent and particularly womens’ autonomy, and some of those comments are reflective of the perspective of that group.

                Your stated view on equality is the same as mine – and most feminists, but then is disparaged by your other comments that define the relationships between men and women as purely predatory and dysfunctional. Mainly from the perspective of the unhappy male, very little mention of the harm dysfunctional relationships have on females.

                That is an intentional choice, and reflects an antipathy towards females that is not supported by calls for genuine equality.

                “Some of those people, men and women, seek perceived equality at any expense to the other gender.”
                And you do the rest of those people who fight for genuine equality a disservice by using those few as a reason for misogynistic comments, and harmful generalisations.

                What alternative perspectives did you discuss with the posters on the MGOTW website that would help them move on from their “hurt” and “scared” positions?

                • DJ Ward …
                  3 December 2018 at 10:07 pm

                  You can’t move them on from there hurt and scared thinking. The damage is done. The system in protecting female interests destroyed there lives, or they witnessed friends and loved ones have their lives destroyed. These are the broken men, the men who survived suicidle experiences. The men who survived false allegations, a system that excluded them from their kids lives and destroyed them financially.

                  They find refuge in avoiding engaging in this world, in relationships. There sites portray there hurt, there fears. A cry for help. A desperate desire to warn other men, and attacks on those they perceive responsible for there experience.

                  They are not upset at the loss of patriarchy or power. That’s a feminist portrial or projection. It is very rare for me to hear the male is the head of the household rubbish in there points of view but it does exist.

                  • Molly …
                    4 December 2018 at 6:48 am

                    I disagree.

                    If they (and you) acknowledged that their experience with female individuals is not representative of the entire female population, that would be a good and reality based start.

                    Your comments support their skewed world view, and you would have provided them with nothing to escape it. Instead reinforced the tarring of all women.

                    You also don’t differentiate between what they feel and what you think. So, it seems that their view of females in general is shared by you. It is a damaged and flawed one. Not only does it trap those men into an unhealthy place, it does great harm for females who are in the vicinity of those men.

                  • solkta …
                    4 December 2018 at 7:04 am

                    You can’t move them on from there hurt and scared thinking.

                    Men or mice?

  5. A 5
    3 December 2018 at 8:49 am

    Omg…first home buyers are “psyching themselves out of buying a home” they clearly cannot afford. Can’t make this shit up.

    https://m.oneroof.co.nz/news/first-home-buyers-psyching-themselves-out-of-the-market-35697

    Quote lower down makes out that because first home buyers make up around a quarter of purchases nationwide, would be homebuyers should know they can live with crippling debts too. Ugh.

  6. veutoviper 6
    3 December 2018 at 10:18 am

    Simon Bridges and National’s Internal Polling

    Up at 2 and 2.1.1 ScottGN made the following two interesting points re Simon Bridges’ interview on this morning’s RNZ Morning Report and last night’s Colmar Brunton poll results:

    “Wouldn’t confirm that Nats internal polling matched last nights Colmar Brunton and was pretty evasive when Susie asked if it was true that the internal polling had them at 41%.”

    “Whoever it is that’s undermining him in the party was pretty quick to get the internal polling to RadioNZ.”

    It seems that RNZ is not the only recipient of leaks of National’s internal polling (or perhaps they got the 41% from Soper as below.) This morning Barry Soper’s opinion bit on the Herald also provides some details of this polling including the 41% figure.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12170060

    The article is quite short so here is most of it.

    The Christmas break won’t come soon enough for Simon Bridges. …

    His judgment call saw the party implode when Jami-Lee Ross was identified. He went feral, accusing Bridges of all sort of things, including corruption.

    The caucus is still reeling, and remains on life support. At its first meeting last week after a break, the final session for the year, it was almost flatlining. They’d been presented with their internal polling, which always happens at that first caucus of a new session.

    Given the lashing the party had taken since they last saw a poll it should have come as no surprise it wasn’t going to be a good one. But it was worse than they thought. National had dropped in just about every polling group, except for women whose support was up slightly. Men bombed, with the over 60s, where the party usually fares well, crashing. Most age groups were heading towards the bloody carpet.

    Just to add insult to National’s injury, about 60 per cent of voters are happy with the direction the country’s heading in under the coalition cobbers – the other 40 per cent are clearly the business community.

    The Nats’ caucus was not a happy one. Their overall rating had slipped to 41 per cent, teetering dangerously close to the red zone of the 30s, and behind Labour on 44. As one member frothed: they were in the high 40s just a few months ago.

    While they were given all the party crackers, they weren’t told how Bridges was faring in the preferred Prime Minister stakes and that had some of them seething. Polling on the leader has always been on the table for dissection.

    Despite assurances from Bridges and his sidekick Paula Bennett that things will get better, they weren’t convinced.

    As this biggest opposition party in history heads into its caucus tomorrow there’ll be little festive on their minds, but as they sharpen their knives for the Christmas turkey at least they’ll know their blades will be ready for use when they see their next internal poll at their first meeting next year. “ END

    ———–

    Last week (on OM 27 Nov 2018) I was rather naughty and did something I never thought I would ever do – recommend reading two posts at Whaleoil written (openly) by Simon Lusk on the very subject of the presentation of this internal polling to the National Caucus. Luckily for me probably, next to no-one seems to have noticed my post. LOL.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-11-2018/#comment-1554819

    WO links: https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/11/nationals-polling-released-to-caucus-today/

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/11/polling-advice-for-national-mps/

    These two WO posts were very interesting in giving a look inside how the National Caucus apparently works on such matters, with Lusk recommending that members look well past what is/was actually presented to members as a whole and question this. In other words, he was suggesting that only a very few at the top (Bridges etc) would see the actual results and there would be a lot of spinning etc.

    However, Lusk was predicting that the results were even lower than 41%, ie

    ”1. The overall National poll number will start with a 3 but likely be above 35. This will be alarming for MPs because it matches the UMR poll’s 37 for National released two weeks ago.”

    In terms of Lusk’s other claims/predictions re this latest internal National polling, there are also a few other discrepancies with what Soper has said in his article but I don’t have the time etc to do a more detailed comparison.

    Of particular interest, Lusk also suggested that Bridges’ personal polling in the Preferred Prime Minister stakes would be presented as much better than the (previous to last night’s) Colmar Brunton poll by comparing him to Jacinda Ardern alone. Lusk’s comments on this aspect (and the effects of Collins’ now being in the running in these stakes and challenging Bridges) in both of his posts are worth reading and remain very relevant with last night’s latest CM poll results showing Collins closing in on Bridges.

    OTOH Soper now says that the National Caucus were not told how Bridges was faring in these stakes and “that had some of them seething. Polling on the leader has always been on the table for dissection.”

    So it would seem that last night’s CM poll results are by no means clear cut and will not necessarily lead to a reprieve for Bridges. So it would still seem a case of watch this space and keep the popcorn handy.

    • Dennis Frank 6.1
      3 December 2018 at 11:06 am

      Excellent report, thanks. Statistical variation from day to day may have just exaggerated the look of the CB result. Lusk does actually have a working brain:

      “Presenting polling is an art form, and Steve Joyce was the master at it. The view of the leadership’s success is dependent on this 5 or 10 minutes when a slideshow of crucial information is put before the troops. The stakes are high. Present too much information, and the MPs will know too much and be able to question decisions made at the top. Present too little and they will think they’re not being given the respect they deserve.”

      “Bridges’ support will look considerably higher than Colmar Brunton’s. This is an old trick of Pinko Farrar’s. National’s polling follows a different methodology to the public polls when it comes to preferred PM. National asks voters to choose between the Simon Bridges and Jacinda Ardern. With no other choices, Bridges automatically looks much stronger than he does in public polls, where voters can name whichever MP they like.”

      Pinko Farrar is thus named to remind readers who the real enemy is, I presume. “Support amongst women and voters in Auckland will have dropped. While hard to believe, up until recently National was ahead with these two groups. That’s where the swing voters sit, and that’s where movement happens.” Proves Lusk isn’t just a redneck gun-nut, eh?

  7. RedLogix 7
    3 December 2018 at 10:30 am

    A well written article on China:

    But the country has been rising for more than 40 years, unaccompanied by effective public pressure for reform. It opted in to the liberal order without liberalising.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/china-xi-jinping-donald-trump-chinese-military-economic-power/10568398

    • Sabine 7.1
      3 December 2018 at 10:35 am

      I think that there are a few countries – so called democracies – that would love to emulate China.

      Shop until you drop, work until you drop, and be obedient. And if you are not obedient we send you to re-education. 🙂 – In china its the muslims minority that gets -re-education, in the US you have a Vice President that proposes electrocution as a method to re-educate the gay.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      3 December 2018 at 11:31 am

      Those errors redound to the West’s credit: it made a bet on its values, offering China the opportunity to succeed on Western terms and become a “responsible stakeholder”, as it did with Russia in the 1990s.

      The West stepped into the failing of the old USSR and empowered Russia’s own oligarchs. This, of course, made most Russians worse off than when they were under the politburo of the USSR.

    • Ad 7.3
      3 December 2018 at 12:54 pm

      New Zealand had a significant part to play in that positioning of
      trade liberalisation versus human rights liberalisation as a balancing reset within China.

      The post that needs to be written is the one that dissects whether the Clark government negotiation of the China-New Zealand Free Trade Agreement was hard enough on protecting human rights, process rights like democracy, and environmental standards, and ethical standards.

      It would have made the agreement a whole bunch harder – more akin to the negotiations between China and the UK over the Hong Kong handover in which a variety of rights and standards were agreed (at least in writing).

      And it was in Anglo-Saxon a fucking big deal for us.

      But the China-New Zealand FTA was also the critical world benchmark for all other bilateral trade agreements with China, so arguably set the limits for all other such agreements to come.

  8. A 8
    3 December 2018 at 10:52 am

    Am I the only one worried about this?

    IRD just sent me a pointless email talking about changes coming. Nothing new there. BUT they helpfully put my personal IRD number in the email. That’s the insecure email bouncing around various servers.

    I am very uncomfortable with this. I agreed to communications, not exposure to hackers and identity theft.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      3 December 2018 at 11:39 am

      BUT they helpfully put my personal IRD number in the email. That’s the insecure email bouncing around various servers.

      NZ doesn’t seem to get security.

      I got an email from AT that looked a lot like the typical phishing scam. Came from an email address that didn’t belong to AT, links that went to some really weird address. Tried to tell them that it looked like a phishing scam and that they really shouldn’t be teaching people to trust such attacks but their only response was no, no, its fine.

      Either that or the private sector people doing the programming aren’t telling the people making the decisions about it.

      Or I suppose it could be both.

      It’s really friggen irritating though.

      • greywarshark 8.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 12:01 pm

        I have noticed that often NZ entities don’t use a complaint or suggestion as an opportunity to beef up their service, and all you get back is the no, no it’s fine, or did you press that button, when you had carefully spelt out all actions in the original email. ‘ We know best’ is rife now, and yet that was complained about when government ruled okay; it was vilified for this approach.

  9. Puckish Rogue 9
    3 December 2018 at 10:59 am

    So a, single, poll comes out that puts National back where its been, roughly, for the last 10 years (so nothing spectacular) and what do we see in stuff…coincidence or rolling out the big guns in response 🙂

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/108949183/clarke-gayford-on-the-pressures-of-being-a-stayathome-dad-to-neve-te-aroha

  10. greywarshark 10
    3 December 2018 at 12:08 pm

    The sexes both tend to stumble towards an understanding of each other. Now that women have got some ascendancy and can be as thoughtless as men in some ways, we are seeing a diminution of the attraction to each other, the life partnership, the joy of having their own child and bringing it up with what are called human values.

    Heard of herbivores – in Japan.
    … a term used in Japan to describe men who have no interest in getting married or finding a girlfriend…

    Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores.[12] Japan’s government views the phenomenon as one possible cause of the nation’s declining birth rate.[13]

    According to Fukasawa, herbivore men are “not without romantic relationships, but have a non-assertive, indifferent attitude toward desires of flesh”. The philosopher Masahiro Morioka defines herbivore men as “kind and gentle men who, without being bound by manliness, do not pursue romantic relationships voraciously and have no aptitude for being hurt or hurting others.”[4]

  11. Ed 11
    3 December 2018 at 12:28 pm

    The corporate media’s distraction for the day.
    Stories about what Santa should look like…..

    Meanwhile the planet burns and the poor in the world and in New Zealand suffer…..

    • veutoviper 11.1
      3 December 2018 at 12:30 pm

      DNFTT

    • Cinny 11.2
      3 December 2018 at 12:38 pm

      Meanwhile… how epic is Mexico, first left wing president in 70 years.

      COP 24 is happening. Let’s hear more about that please media.

      And the Israeli police have enough evidence for Bibi and his wife to be charged with bribery and fraud.

  13. Puckish Rogue 13
    3 December 2018 at 12:37 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/109009021/fisheries-review-panel-plans-abandoned-thanks-to-nz-first

    ‘But in the latest of a series of backdowns those plans are now abandoned, a source said – because NZ First doesn’t think the panel is needed, and resisted the appointment of environmental activists.

    Greenpeace NZ head Russel Norman, the former co-leader of the Green Party, is furious that the new Government is less aggressive on fishing management than the last one.’

    What they hey its only a little compromise, in the scheme of things its not a big deal 🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1
      3 December 2018 at 1:44 pm

      Just have to get rid of NZ1st next time and have a Labour/Green government.

      • Kat 13.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 3:35 pm

        Don’t think NZ1st supporters will vote Green, Labour may pick up some and National would get the rest if NZ1st disappeared. The one interesting scenario for the present coalition is what happens at the next election should NZ1st and the Greens get an equal percentage or should the Greens overtake NZ1st. That outcome could be a real challenge for the PM’s negotiating skills.

  14. Ankerrawshark 14
    3 December 2018 at 12:42 pm

    Solution is to vote labour or green Pr so they don’t ha ve to go into coalition with NZ first.

    Btw agree interesting timing wheeling out Clark to talk about Neve. Good on labour

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1
      3 December 2018 at 12:43 pm

      I like that we can both agree that Winston is a blight and needs to go

    • James 14.2
      3 December 2018 at 2:12 pm

      As much as I don’t like nzf – they are the only thing saving this government from itself.

      • Ankerrawshark 14.2.1
        3 December 2018 at 2:46 pm

        Hey James on the thread yesterday about the cb poll I asked you your opinion on whether you thought someone who sold a rental property and made a capital gain should pay tax on their earnings or not.

        There seem to be some confusion between us on what I was asking. Firstly I am well aware that land lords pay tax on their rental earnings. Secondly I was aware that you were hoping labour would campaign on a cgt as you thought it would be a vote loser (I am inclined to agree). I think you may have attempted to imply that I was stupid “you need to read more carefully”. But no matter, I realize this is your approach at times.

        But if you are willing I would be curious to know if you think a land lord who sells their property should be taxed on their capital gain. Completely aside from labour/national. If you don’t think they should be taxed on this income I’d be curious to know why. You claim to be not that wealthy and I would have thought it would be the people who get this tax free earnings who are against a cgt

    • greywarshark 15.1
      3 December 2018 at 4:57 pm

      I heard a former White House aide this morning on Radionz and he said that Bush was the kindest man ever, and just wanted to do good things. Was he being paid by the word? I’ve forgotten just what he did but that wealthy family are made of cork, and always float to the top and I feel that he wasn’t a good man, but then it depends how many baffle-boards get held up.

  16. Ad 16
    3 December 2018 at 2:50 pm

    Back in the day, Bruce Jesson did a lovely job detailing the web of power left behind in New Zealand from British colonial enterprises.

    He also showed how they had changed through the 1980s in his book “Behind the Mirror Glass: The Growth of Wealth and Power in New Zealand in the Eighties”

    I would of course love to see one on US direct political influence in New Zealand from after WW2 to before the anti-nuclear ships decision. Unfortunately Bruce Jesson is no longer around to do the job. Maybe someone in the Auckland or Victoria political science departments has done one.

    We’re not likely to get one on US influence from China, since they don’t allow independent think tanks at all.

    Here’s the start of a new version, this time on China’s rising direct political influence. It’s from a US right-leaning thinktank, the Hoover Institute.

    At the end section are a series of case studies detailing the growth and changes in Chinese state influence in a number of countries, particularly New Zealand:

    http://u.osu.edu/mclc/2018/12/01/chinese-influence-and-american-interests/

    The NZHerald is covering it at the moment:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12170287

    • Dennis Frank 16.1
      3 December 2018 at 3:13 pm

      From the Herald: “The report said New Zealand’s Chinese diaspora – now 200,000 strong – had maintained neutrality and independence during the Cold War, but in recent times local NGOs and Chinese-language newspapers had been drawn into China’s orbit.”

      “Now, few activities are noticeably independent of Beijing,” the report said, noting “the almost complete domination of local Chinese-language media by pro-PRC outlets.” How is the infiltration being organised? Here’s how:

      “The report said these local publishers all had co-operation agreements with the state-run Xinjua News Service, and “[Chinese Communist Party Officials] have given direct editorial instruction to Chinese-language media in New Zealand”.”

  17. alwyn 17
    3 December 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Yeh. I didn’t think there was a chance but the Court of Appeal has slapped down the ridiculous actions of the Wellington City Council.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/109041475/court-of-appeal-overturns-resource-consents-for-wellingtons-shelly-bay-redevelopment
    I suppose that the Council, led by that idiot Justin Lester, will appeal this and cost the ratepayers of Wellington a few more million dollars but perhaps they will give up.
    Is it unreasonable to expect a couple of resignations from the Council and one from the Chief Executive Kevin Lavery?

    • OnceWasTim 17.1
      3 December 2018 at 8:51 pm

      No chance @alwyn of any resignations.
      And it seems to me that local body elections are just going through the motions in an attempt to show democracy at work.
      Anyone will tell you that elected Councillors have very little sway when it comes down to it. There’s a faux outrage if they even attempt to criticise administrative ineptitude.
      So when you get a muppet for a Mayor alongside a muppet for a Council CEO, it’s the perfek storm as they piss in each other’s pockets

      Fucked as GWRC administration is (the Regional Council that ruined a functioning public transport system), the WCC hasn’t yet been challenged over its part in that debacle- which as it happens was fucking huge.
      But you know ….. Ka Pai eh.

      Again…..roll on Chippie’s PS reform, and let’s hope it extends to local body gummit (though I doubt it). We have to live with incremental change – unlike the shock doctrine that brought us the neo-liberal agenda 3 decades past

  18. Puckish Rogue 18
    3 December 2018 at 2:57 pm

    I feel inspired to go a bit…sci-fi for some reason, I call this latest effort: Jude

    Jude!
    A-ah!
    Savior of the National party
    Jude!
    A-ah!
    She’ll save every one of us

    Seemingly there is no reason for these extraordinary socialist upsets
    Hahahahahahaha
    What’s happening Jude?
    Only Doctor Don Brash, formerly at the Reserve Bank has provided any explanation

    Jude!
    A-ah!
    She’s a miracle

    This morning’s unprecedented poll result is no cause for alarm

    Jude!
    A-ah!
    Queen of the impossible

    She’s for every one of us
    Stand for every one of us
    She saves with a mighty hand
    Every man, every woman
    Every child, with a mighty
    Jude

    (Phil Twyford, Judith Collins approaching.)
    (What do you mean Judith Collins approaching? Open fire! All spin doctors! Dispatch war rocket Oriveda to bring back her body)

    Jude!
    A-ah!
    (Judith’s alive!)

    Jude!
    A-ah!
    She’ll save every one of us

    Just a woman
    With a woman’s courage
    You know she’s
    Nothing but a woman
    And she can never fail
    No one but the pure at heart
    May find the Golden Grail
    …Oh..Oh……..Oh..Oh…

    (Jude, Jude, I love you, but we only have two years to save New Zealand!)

    • McFlock 18.1
      3 December 2018 at 2:59 pm

      And yet she acts so much like Ming the Merciless…

    • Andre 18.2
      3 December 2018 at 3:10 pm

      Sci-fi … Jude. That combo immediately gave me a mental image of Jabba the Hutt dropping people into his Rancor pit.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.2.1
        3 December 2018 at 3:20 pm

        Star Wars…Star Wars…is that like Star Trek?

        • Incognito 18.2.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 10:29 pm

          No, more like Little House on the Prairie meets Dancing With The Stars with glow-in-the-dark sticks and asthma inhalers.

          • McFlock 18.2.1.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 10:36 pm

            And a dose of Harry Potter

            • Incognito 18.2.1.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 11:02 pm

              Hmmm, more David Copperfield IMHO, but I’m showing my age …

              But yes, I did leave out the magic ingredient so point taken with grace and gratitude, McFlock.

              • McFlock …
                3 December 2018 at 11:10 pm

                lol at least HP has more than three female characters with lines.

                To be fair, I quite like the last few.

    • Ankerrawshark 18.3
      3 December 2018 at 3:10 pm

      Very tuneful PR but you have failed to allow me to understand why you think she is great and while I find your devoted infatuation to her, endears me to you as a person (we’ve all been there in the dizzy heights of love after all) it doesn’t alter my opinion based on how judith operates and her actions one bit…..

      Realize your goal isn’t necessarily to provide good evidence for why Jude should prevail, but a lot of us come on here for a more rigorous exchange of views/information

      Nevertheless your soulful rendition made me smile

      • Puckish Rogue 18.3.1
        3 December 2018 at 3:21 pm

        Heres why:

        • Ankerrawshark 18.3.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 4:47 pm

          Lol

          Seriously though, what were your thoughts when Jude went to China on the tax payer to attend an anti corruption conference then on the way back had dinner with her husbands company officials and a Chinese boarder official and next thing we know original milk powder no longer held up at the boarder……and please don’t argue that was good for NZ. It was good for her husbands company and no others who were having the same difficulty. Oh and she lied about the dinner saying she just swung by orividas office for ten minutes on the way to the airport.

          I know it’s hard when you have a crush on someone to see them for who they really are

    • rod 18.4
      3 December 2018 at 5:22 pm

      You sound quite desperate in your love for crusher. How old are you ?

  19. Dennis Frank 19
    3 December 2018 at 4:31 pm

    “Government officials exchanged emails with a controversial private security firm about environmentalist Pete Bethune and derided him “mad as a box of frogs”. Psychiatric diagnosis isn’t easy, so it’s to their credit that some public servants have developed that skill as part of their job.

    Other public servants have learned how to offer dietary advice: “In February 2010, Bethune was stabbed trying to stop Japanese whalers. A news report shared with the attached message: “If the Japanese crew have any sense (of humour) Captain Buffoon will be offered only one thing [whale meat] to eat while he experiences their hospitality.” The recipient replied: “That would be fantastic. I would love to see his reaction.””

    “The emails show ministry staff didn’t want the navy patrol boat HMNZS Taupo to investigate Bethune’s reports that fishing vessels were illegal active in a marine sanctuary.” https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/108954302/activist-pete-bethune-fears-thompson–clark-spied-on-him-under-direction-of-mpi

    ” The Ministry for Primary Industries apologised to the Earthrace captain this week for a string of unprofessional and catty internal emails, in which staff gloated about his arrest on board a Japanese whaling ship. They dismissed him as “full of his own self-importance”. The Ministry released the emails to Bethune, but is refusing to hand over the correspondence between its staff and Thompson & Clark.”

    “In July, the Ministry referred evidence of serious staff misconduct to the Serious Fraud Office and the State Services Commission, which was already investigating the contracting of Thompson & Clark.”

    “On Friday, after further questions, Walsh called Bethune to assure him MPI didn’t hire Thompson & Clark to keep him under surveillance. Walsh also apologised for insults contained in 54 pages of internal MPI emails, which he sent to Bethune. Bethune said the emails were “pretty rough.” “They don’t seem to like me,” he added.” I kinda get the same impression. Raises a question about organisational culture in that department. Almost as if there’s no professional requirement to be impartial in the public service, eh?

    • greywarshark 19.1
      3 December 2018 at 4:52 pm

      Wow Dennis Frank, Thanks for that – it is interesting to see the unprofessional way that Our Public Servants behave when they are left to the devices and over-management of some little jumped up shit who comes with private enterprise experience.

      Having been taught that government is a waste of space, and that serving their country is anything but a noble job, they act like a bunch of young public relations people who light-heartedly deal with all business, ‘always seeing the bright side of life’. Give them the bum’s rush and send them back to private enterprise so they can get into the fraud and tax-avoidance rings where the money is to be made.

      In their place can we have a different standard of person than these easy-riders from the wealthy belt who only serve big money and think they can hold out their hand and at the same time that being a citizen is a big joke.

      Raises a question about organisational culture in that department. Almost as if there’s no professional requirement to be impartial in the public service, eh?

      Put it this way and it is absolutely right. ‘Almost as if there’s no requirement to be professional and impartial in the public service, eh?’

    • Gabby 19.2
      3 December 2018 at 9:43 pm

      MPI were really pissed off at the prospect of having to pull their collective finger out of their collective arse and do an actual fucking thing. That’s not what they signed on for.

  20. Ed 20
    3 December 2018 at 5:32 pm

    George Galloway and Steve Topple discuss the Azov Sea (ie Ukraine and Russia) with particular references to the lies of the corporate media.

    Watch from 00:10 to 10:00
    Ten minutes of learning for you all.

    • solkta 20.1
      3 December 2018 at 5:35 pm

      But but but CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!

      • Ed 20.1.1
        3 December 2018 at 5:59 pm

        See Daily Review, you bully boy troll.
        Bullying is under review in parliament.
        It should be on this site.

        [Enough, Ed. Telling TS what it should do is a self martydom level offence. And I’ve repeatedly asked you to cease spamming the site with videos. When you return, if you link to a video, use it as support for an argument you are making and be explicit about where in the video interested readers can look for corroboration of your position. Regarding climate change, you are mostly preaching to the converted here. No TS reader needs to be browbeaten about something they are already invested in. Tone it down, please. Banned till Saturday. TRP]

        • Anne 20.1.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 6:45 pm

          Bullying is under review in parliament.
          It should be on this site.

          You ask for it Ed.

          You bully everyone who reads TS on a daily basis. Day in, day out you hammer the same messages as though we’re all a bunch of dumb f***s who can’t figure it out for ourselves. You are insulting. No-one disagrees with much of what you say but we’re fast learning to scroll over the top of you. God only knows how many people you have turned off coming to this site because of your repetitive and obsessive diatribes.

          Lay off!

        • solkta 20.1.1.2
          3 December 2018 at 7:32 pm

          So how come there is time to prattle on endless about Russia but no time to discuss issues like the transgender stuff the consequences of which push many of our young people to suicide? Or discuss our festivals and what we should celebrate? How is that you claim to to be such a caring person when you clearly aren’t?

    • joe90 20.2
      3 December 2018 at 5:54 pm

      Russia is a signatory to a 2003 agreement stating that the Russian Federation and the Ukraine have free navigation in the sea of Azov and the strait of Kerch.

      But again, the gangster state showed its true colours.

      • Ed 20.2.1
        3 December 2018 at 5:58 pm

        My, you would learn a lot if you linked to the stories I feature.
        Your hatred for Russia is beyond reason.

        • joe90 20.2.1.1
          3 December 2018 at 6:06 pm

          Hatred for a murderous Chekist thug and his kleptocracy is reasonable.

          • Ed 20.2.1.1.1
            3 December 2018 at 6:11 pm

            I’ll listen to George Galloway before joe90 any day.

            • joe90 20.2.1.1.1.1
              3 December 2018 at 6:44 pm

              Thug life.

              • solkta …
                3 December 2018 at 7:44 pm

                Ohhhgg, i think i need a shower.

              • DJ Ward …
                3 December 2018 at 10:35 pm

                You have to Laugh. You really do have to ask what’s going on with that. Some cunning plot between the two celebrated with a level of friendship that I was not aware of. Who knows but I’m guessing Trump who has taken endless heat over his relationship with the prince might be less than impressed.

      • Muttonbird 20.2.2
        3 December 2018 at 10:57 pm

        Weeeell, a few things have changed in the region since 2003. Not sure that agreement means much anymore.

  21. eco maori 21
    4 December 2018 at 8:29 am

    Kia ora The Am Show I say be careful what you do to retired people’s pension you do no that unless one has a family business or work for friends that they will end up working for the minimum wage struggling to survive picking fruit ect the most logical way is asset testing got asset more than 5 million no super till 70 we will end up with our elderly under the bridge Jan I get your concern we could leave our future decedents loaded with Dept .
    Condolences to Jeff Murphy Whano for there loss he made some good kiwi movies I have been watching some of his movies on NZONSCREEN site Good by pork pie’ UTU he was a good pioneering film maker can’t get UTU on the net????????????????????????? .
    20 tornadoes strike in America hope no one has been hurt.
    That is a good speech Sir David Aettenborough at the Polish hosted UN climate summit
    What he is saying is correct we have our future in our hands and if we don’t act now and stop living on sacrificing our decedents future by continuing to burn carbon thee end is near.
    I agree with your statement don’t ban monkey bars my mokos love them they love climbing .
    Jackie I like red heads I have never meant to insult anyone with some of my words which is about someones character not there image nice dress by the way.
    Ka kite ano P.S there is red in the whano lines

  22. eco maori 22
    4 December 2018 at 11:48 am

    Sir David Attenborough: Climate change is ‘our greatest threat in thousands of years
    The 92-year-old TV presenter blamed humans for the “disaster of global scale, our greatest threat in thousands of years. Eco did cast a stone at one story of Sir’s I got what he meant extremism but I had to let everyone know that climate change is a BIG ISSUE ka pai E hoa .

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/109064701/sir-david-attenborough-climate-change-is-our-greatest-threat-in-thousands-of-years

    Wettest December hour on record: Person hurt by lightning, flights delayed, schools closed as storm rages across Auckland.
    The storm had seen the wettest hour in December in Auckland on record, NIWA said, adding it was also the wettest summer hour since 1975.At 9:30am Metservice was showing more than 860 lightning strikes had struck the region.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/109065041/thunderstorms-hit-auckland-during-morning-commute Ka kite ano Wise words from a very wise and respected man.

  23. eco maori 23
    4 December 2018 at 12:27 pm

    These videos are to the Polish governments who lie and say there economy will stall and lose jobs if they stop burning coal and start using renewable-energy false.
    You health bills will come down and jobs growth is 10x that of the carbon industry .
    The carbon baron’s don’t like green energy one reason is it makes energy more democratic the person with off grid solar power hydro or wind does not have to worry about what the price huge power company’s charges are going to be in ten years time they will lose there billions of dollars of control over your hip pocket and capitalist never want to lose control of YOUR hip pockets links below ka kite ano P.S NZ has millions of tons of coal to that can stay in the ground were mother-nature placed it.

  24. eco maori 24
    4 December 2018 at 12:29 pm

    Video for my words above for the Polish people

  25. eco maori 25
    4 December 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Kia ora Newshub Yes the goverment need some back bone to get changes to laws that put people in jail for smoking weed.
    Well that Thunder & Lightning Storm Struck in Mamaku today it was a good experience.
    I put a post up about Sir David yes its got me flabbergasted why trump is denieing climate change and the gop party.
    Good by pork Pie was a good watch UTU and Quite Earth to.
    There you go some law makers have a attitude we make the laws and can break the laws Barry that is.
    Wow that was a big explosion gas is very dangerous condolences to the Australian man who lost his life in that moving truck explosion. There are a some people who treat animals badly they must think animals don’t have feelings fools.
    Ingrid I heard a big bang of Thunder that sent the house alarms going off in the neighbourhood Ka kite ano

  26. eco maori 26
    4 December 2018 at 7:30 pm

    Kia ora James & Mulls from The Crowd Goes Wild Mana Wahine for the under 17 soccer team.
    Its is Great to see our Wahine winning a lot of awards ka pai.
    I know he can do it Hohepa that is kia kaha E hoa .
    That’s A awesome Idea using wool in surf board so they become more sustainable surf board’s just the Aussies will hurl a joke at us It would be cool if wool was used a lot more to replace fiberglass big win for our farmers.
    Wayne Bennett is a great coach its a shame his old club through him a curve ball on his way to a new job.
    It was stupid of that French man to ask the Wahine who won that soccer prize if she knows how to TWERK when we all know she champions Equal right.
    Israel that was funny alright drinking like that good luck with your next fight ka kite ano P,S Got distracted

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