Open mike 04/03/2020

67 comments on “Open mike 04/03/2020 ”

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1. Pete George 1

   4 March 2020 at 8:07 am

   The Abortion Legislation Bill had it’s Second Reading debate last night and passed on a personal (conscience) vote easily, 81-39.

   There is strong opposition but that’s from a minority. It looks like the Bill should get right through Parliament, with or without NZ First MP votes who want it to go to a referendum (I don’t think ithat’ss necessary).

   A summary of the speeches both for and against the Bill.
   https://yournz.org/2020/03/04/abortion-legislation-bill-passes-second-reading-81-39/

   Hansard with full speech transcripts and who voted for and against:
   https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20200303_20200303_16
   • Tiger Mountain 1.1

     4 March 2020 at 8:38 am

     Good, 50% of the population are closer to having control over their own bodies and reproductive rights improved.
2. Robert Guyton 2

   4 March 2020 at 8:49 am

   Bridges opposed.
   • Sacha 2.1

     4 March 2020 at 8:54 am

     Be interesting to hear how his wife thinks about it.
   • JanM 2.2

     4 March 2020 at 8:55 am

     Yes, interesting that. I wonder if it's the result of his Baptist upbringing?
   • millsy 2.3

     4 March 2020 at 9:29 am

     Which is why believers should be barred from public office.
     • Sacha 2.3.1

       4 March 2020 at 9:32 am

       Everyone brings beliefs about the world into office. Some are more mature than others about how they reconcile those with the responsibilities of their role.
     • Macro 2.3.2

       4 March 2020 at 11:08 am

       Which is why believers should be barred from public office.

       Except

       New Zealand's first Labour Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage is said to have personified Labour's "Applied Christianity."[5] Labour won an overwhelming victory by presenting itself as the party of practical Christian compassion, in contrast to the "anti-family" depression-era coalition government. It was in this context that Savage – who would later return to his Roman Catholic roots – described Labour's Social Security Act (1938), intended to afford security for all New Zealanders 'from cradle to grave', as ‘applied Christianity’

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_politics_in_New_Zealand

       The above link is well worth a read. Not all Christians hold anti-social, anti-progressive views. And many of the progressive advances in our laws have been initially sponsored by Christian concern, Indeed our nations founding document was to a large extent brought about by Christian concern for the then current practice of English expansionism and colonisation in the early 19th C, and the undesirable effects it was having on indigenous populations.

       William Wilberforce, a member of the House of Commons as an independent, became intricately involved in the abolition of the slave trade in Britain. His conversion to Evangelical Christianity in 1784 played a key role in interesting him in this social reform.[43] William Wilberforce's Slave Trade Act 1807 abolished the slave trade in the British Empire. It was not until the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 that the institution finally was abolished, but on a gradual basis. Since land owners in the British West Indies were losing their unpaid labourers, they received compensation totaling £20 million.[44]

       Having worked to end slavery Wilberforce and his friends turned to the next social problem of the abuse of indigenous people by colonisation:

       Several decades before the Treaty was signed both slavery abolitionist William Wilberforce and others who were part of the humanitarian Clapham Sect backed the Church Missionary Society (CMS) and a missionary move into New Zealand.

       Wilberforce himself was an active patron to Samuel Marsden who would eventually preach the first Christian sermon on New Zealand shores in 1814 at the invitation of Maori chief Ruatara.

       The more humanitarian attitude championed in part by Wilberforce and his legal counsel, friend and later brother-in-law James Stephen, who together bought an end to the slave trade, extended to the new generation of influential humanitarian Christians.

       It was James Stephen’s son, who as British Colonial Secretary, gave the instructions to Lord Normanby ensure Hobson set out the mutually beneficial principals of agreements that became known as the Treaty of Waitangi.

       Stephen was well aware of the atrocities that had been perpetuated on the indigenous people of other nations by the process of British colonisation and was determined that this was never to happen in New Zealand.

       Maori land and resources were to be protected by law and they were to be treated as equal rights citizens with the British.

       http://www.bibleandtreaty.co.nz/history.html

       So not all bible bashers are opposed to progress toward a decent and fair society, and they are just as appalled by the pronouncements of those who would withhold fair social justice as anyone else.
     • Wayne 2.3.3

       4 March 2020 at 12:07 pm

       Millsy,

       Ridiculous proposition. In any event Simon doesn't really let his personal views influence policy development. Only on the rare occasion of conscience votes, which are essentially the one occasion where you have a personal vote. Same with Bill English. There are MP's (but not the leadership) who make crusades of conscience issues, and they do represent the views of a significant number of New Zealanders.

       However, successive National leaders (Jim Bolger, Bill English, and Simon Bridges as leaders with conservative religious views) do not let their personal views affect party policy. They know there is a variety of views in the National caucus, and that the mid point of caucus is more liberal then they are.

       I would note that the current law works fine in practise. No women is denied an abortion in New Zealand. I get it that the current law essentially ratifies current reality. Which is why the second reading passed with a big majority, with around half the Nat MP's voting for it. In practise, virtually nothing will change.
       • Chris 2.3.3.1

         4 March 2020 at 12:37 pm

         "…Simon doesn't really let his personal views influence policy development."

         That has to be a candidate for laugh of the year.
         • gsays 2.3.3.1.1

           4 March 2020 at 1:05 pm

           His attitude to Laura Norder and the gangs is fairly old testament.
           • Chris 2.3.3.1.1.1

             4 March 2020 at 2:48 pm

             We need a law that requires anyone who wishes to stand for Parliament to spend a week strapped to a chair while on LSD watching documentaries about poverty in New Zealand.
             • sumsuch …

               4 March 2020 at 11:31 pm

               Or deliver an old fridge to the cleaner's house. The sourness overrides.
         • OnceWasTim 2.3.3.1.2

           4 March 2020 at 2:51 pm

           

           I hope he keeps telling himself that
         • Wayne 2.3.3.1.3

           4 March 2020 at 3:22 pm

           Chris,
           I meant conscience issues, as must have been obvious from the context.
3. Robert Guyton 3

   4 March 2020 at 9:00 am

   Being Bill English.
4. millsy 4

   4 March 2020 at 9:28 am

   Women shouldnt be compelled to have babies against their will. Abortion bans effectively turns women into slaves.

   Noticable that no one seems to call for vacectomies to be outlawed.

   The God botherers fears are unfounded, given that abortion numbers are falling, as well as teenage pregnancies, and the amount of people having sex in general.

   Same with drinking, that is falling as well.

   Fears that this country is turning into Sodom and Gommorah is not borne out by facts.

   To be honest, for a God to exterminate a whole community because they have the odd orgy seems to be rather petty.
   • sumsuch 4.1

     4 March 2020 at 11:33 pm

     Orgies seem to be rather off-putting with the smells and sounds and the affront to personality.
5. ianmac 5

   4 March 2020 at 10:05 am

   "Professor Peter Collignon, an experienced infectious diseases physician and microbiologist in Canberra, ….said handwashing with soap and water – regardless of the type or brand – was as effective as using sanitiser from a store."

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12313605

   Sanity sanitary advice.
   • Anne 5.1

     4 March 2020 at 10:41 am

     Exactly what I have been thinking these past few days… haven't these idiots who ransacked the supermarkets and chemists heard about soap and water?

     My biggest gripe is the selfishness and lack of consideration for other people – elderly people and people with limited mobility who rely on others to take them to the shops once a week. When I went to my local supermarket on Monday there were empty shelves everywhere. No toilet rolls and other sanitary items. Pet foods were limited to a few brands only. Basic items like bread and milk were in relatively short supply.

     I put the insanity down to the 'me, me, me and what's mine' generation who grew up under neoliberalism and suffer from the 'I'm alright Jack to hell with anyone else syndrome'.
     • Matiri 5.1.1

       4 March 2020 at 11:07 am

       Also aren’t we all supposed to be prepared with supplies for the next big earthquake? I know that most in my small community already are, but we did have a huge earthquake in 1929 and then 1965.

       2 weeks self isolation will be a breeze compared to the aftermath of a really big shake.
     • Macro 5.1.2

       4 March 2020 at 11:16 am

       

       Yes! Absolutely senseless behaviour.

       And then watching the News on TV1 last night we have an electrician saying home owners won't be able to buy light switches! Good grief! I'd better get out there and make sure I have plenty in the shed just in case.
       • Anne 5.1.2.1

         4 March 2020 at 11:49 am

         … just in case all the light switches pack a sad at the same time.
     • Sacha 5.1.3

       4 March 2020 at 11:28 am

       The loopaper hoarding is an interesting angle. It's a respiratory virus, not a gastro one.
       • Pingao 5.1.3.1

         4 March 2020 at 1:25 pm

         Regarding stocking up on loo paper, this is always a sensible thing to do. If you can't get to the shops, you can't necessarily expect it to be delivered as it is bulky and everyone else could be busy covering for staff shortages and looking after their own people.

         After the Christchurch quakes, it was difficult and took a long time to do anything so having some supplies was great (Also broken sewers, no running water for weeks and no power meant hand sanitizer was really useful). The only manufacturer of toilet paper is in the north island so south islanders should stock up anyway for when the big quake comes and breaks up supply routes.

         It's not like you are not going to use it. Think of it as a healthy bogroll bank balance. Think of it as being proactive.
         • In Vino 5.1.3.1.1

           4 March 2020 at 10:06 pm

           I suggest the hoarders practise in advance by spraying hand sanitisers onto their bumholes in anticipation of no more toilet paper.
6. Andre 6

   4 March 2020 at 10:11 am

   Heh. The idea of Sanders becoming the nominee poses a serious existential crisis for conservative Never-Trumpers.

   https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/03/never-trump-maybe-bernie-118981

   You could almost feel sorry for them. That is, until you remember the collection of views they hold and the kind of candidate they would enthusiastically support are really quite repugnant.
7. Muttonbird 7

   4 March 2020 at 10:34 am

   Immigration. Are we importing all our social problems from the wider, decaying world?

   We should just bring in the best people, not the worst.

   Methamphetamine with a street value of about $144 million has been seized during a raid in Auckland.

   A 60-year-old British national was arrested and charged with possession of meth for supply.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119996987/200kg-of-methamphetamine-seized-after-raid-of-auckland-apartment

   Well done to the Police, by the way.
   • Sabine 7.1

     4 March 2020 at 11:24 pm

     which gang did he belong to?
8. Graeme 8

   4 March 2020 at 11:40 am

   Interesting, a sitting National MP with a five figure majority is being challenged for selection. Oh, it's only Compost, he's turned out to be a complete plonker

   However Stuff understands there has been increased tension between Walker and much of the electorate's executive.

   The growing disquiet over his performance has led to several potential candidates preparing to challenge Walker for the nomination.

   I've got an idea who the local challengers might be, and there's several, but wonder if there's any high ranking list MPs who could be considering a move south.
   • Sacha 8.1

     4 March 2020 at 11:44 am

     You could slap a blue rosette on a goat in that part of the country.
     • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

       4 March 2020 at 11:47 am

       And in the case of Todd, they did
       • Sacha 8.1.1.1

         4 March 2020 at 11:48 am

         Do like to party at the top of the electorate, those creatures. Awful mess.
   • Wayne 8.2

     4 March 2020 at 12:14 pm

     Hmm, rather surprising. Hamish Walker has had really positive publicity at the broader national level, and well as being a real champion for the Lumsden birthing unit. I would have thought the voters, but especially National Party activists, would have been pleased with that.
     • Robert Guyton 8.2.1

       4 March 2020 at 12:33 pm

       Perhaps Todd's gonna have another crack at it!

       Or Sarah, having lost favour in Invercargill, will try her luck in the provinces?
     • Sacha 8.2.2

       4 March 2020 at 1:01 pm

       What has he been up to that we have not heard about?
     • Graeme 8.2.3

       4 March 2020 at 1:22 pm

       While he's a bit of a machine at cranking out the press releases he's had more than a few foot in mouth moments, a couple valiant attempts at both legs. The petition post just being the latest. Apart from making lots of noise he's really been pretty ineffectual as an MP. Some of the things he comes out with you'd think he was batting for the red party.

       The electorate is one of the powerhouses of the economy, it really demands an MP who's senior cabinet level and capable of advanced strategic thinking on behalf of their electorate, not some kid that's barking at every passing car. And that's irrespective of stripe.

       Moving to Queenstown was his downfall, if you are Clutha Southland MP you have to live in Clutha or Southland, not Queenstown. You've also got to get your head around the social and economic / business issues that Queenstown has, it must be one of the hardest electorates in the country for an MP. Bill English did it very well, but Bill picked up the Queenstown end late in his career and was a very capable MP. Warren Cooper and David Parker were also respected MPs in a similar electorate. The last two haven't reflected well on their party.

       There may be an exception for a Queenstown based MP in Clutha Southland where that MP is absolutely spectacular and is either in the party's top 10, preferably 5, or definitely going to be there by the end of their first term. Would be a likely place to parachute the next PM into.
       • Robert Guyton 8.2.3.1

         4 March 2020 at 3:20 pm

         Parachute? Paraglide more.
         • Graeme 8.2.3.1.1

           4 March 2020 at 3:46 pm

           Slither might be more descriptive
9. bwaghorn 9

   4 March 2020 at 12:02 pm

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/120001253/heres-what-id-like-you-to-know-about-property-investors

   Property investor pleads his case.

   He points put that tendering is one thing that drives up house prices .

   Is it doable to ban tenders in the housing market?
   • Pete George 9.1

     4 March 2020 at 12:28 pm

     "He points put that tendering is one thing that drives up house prices . "

     That's the whole point of selling property, trying to 'drive up' to the best possible price. Auctions do the same thing, as do 'offers' where there are competing buyers, and every other way of selling a house.

     Banning tenders would just make people use another method of trying to get the best price possible.
     • bwaghorn 9.1.1

       4 March 2020 at 2:34 pm

       Houses should be for living in .

       Tendering forces people to do stupid things and pay way over the odds. A more transparent selling mechanism would stabilize price rises .

       Did you note the guy in the article tries to say landlords arnt greedy then mentions the 20 houses hes sold to first home buyers as they can be forced into paying more.
       • Pete George 9.1.1.1

         4 March 2020 at 2:40 pm

         He didn't say anything about force.

         I've recently sold about 20 residential properties to buy some commercial ones equivalent to the same value.

         Only two or three of those properties sold went to investors, all others were sold to first-home buyers. Why? Mostly because it didn't make sense for investors to pay anywhere near as much as a first home buyer is willing to pay.

         He said first home buyers were willing to pay more.

         It's not just an emotional decision as he indicated. An investor has to look at costs and returns, and if a price goes too high the numbers don't stack up.

         First home buyers are willing to pay more to get on the property ladder. There cost considerations are different, mortgage/rates/maintenance/insurance versus rent, not just in the present but also in the future. Plus he satisfaction of having your own home.
         • In Vino 9.1.1.1.1

           4 March 2020 at 10:14 pm

           Try to understand, Pete. People are trying to tell you that a house to live in is not a suitable commodity to expose to the blind forces of a slanted market. A healthy society does not allow that. Have you looked at the laws that govern dealings done in housing/apartments in Germany? A society I would now describe as healthier than our own here in Godforsookuszone.
10. Chris 10

    4 March 2020 at 12:53 pm

    So many people believe this shit now. At least Stuff hasn't allowed comments because there'd be more people heralding him a hero than those giving reasoned critique.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/120001253/heres-what-id-like-you-to-know-about-property-investors
    • Wensleydale 10.1

      4 March 2020 at 1:46 pm

      I read that with a big smirk on my face. "Those poor property investors. People just don't know how hard they've got it." *sniffle*
11. AB 11

    4 March 2020 at 1:30 pm

    Second coronavirus case confirmed by MOH. (according to NZ Herald)

    • Kiwi woman returned to Auckland from holiday in northern Italy via Singapore on February 25
    • Woman travelled to Palmerston North this week on Air NZ flight
    • Westlake Boys' and Westlake Girls' High School notified because members of her family have gone to school

    It potentially gets very messy from here.
    • Janet 11.1

      4 March 2020 at 1:33 pm

      Was she not supposed to "self-isolate" returning from northern Italy ?

      Also it seems she was feeling unwell some days before flying to PN .

      Irresponsible ?
    • Poission 11.2

      4 March 2020 at 1:47 pm

      in Italy there are now significant problems with the health system,as around 10% of medical staff,have tested positive and are in self isolation.

      https://apnews.com/837274f1bab9af1aab12f1b9481b2d62
      • McFlock 11.2.1

        4 March 2020 at 3:17 pm

        Lombardy has ten million people and 1200 cases. Pretty near every case must be a medic, by that reckoning.

        Math adds up if it's Codogno with the medic problem, though.
    • Stunned Mullet 11.3

      4 March 2020 at 2:28 pm

      "It potentially gets very messy from here."

      More likely there will be few if any persons infected by this new case as the family have now isolated and the flights to PN are small and al potential contacts will be traced and followed up fairly quickly.

      The continued front page reporting of coronavirus may be generating cheap hits for the MSM but it's doing little of any use apart from spooking the horses.
      • Sacha 11.3.1

        4 March 2020 at 2:46 pm

        Loopaper makers must be stoked.
        • Stunned Mullet 11.3.1.1

          4 March 2020 at 2:53 pm

          Poo paper futures will be spiking !
          • Sacha 11.3.1.1.1

            4 March 2020 at 3:31 pm

            Floating high
            • In Vino 11.3.1.1.1.1

              4 March 2020 at 10:16 pm

              Like a bad egg?
12. adam 12

    4 March 2020 at 1:46 pm

    Just Yuck.

    
    
    
    • Wensleydale 12.1

      4 March 2020 at 1:57 pm

      How do you sit in a meeting discussing this as a potential marketing angle and come out of it saying, "Yep. We're on to a winner with this one, chaps." I guess there was no one there to put their hand up and say, "Erm… this could be misconstrued in a number of ways, all of which are profoundly offensive… and possibly criminal."

      Fossil fuel companies — dogpiling a teenage girl because she threatens their profits. Utter scum.
      • In Vino 12.1.1

        4 March 2020 at 10:20 pm

        +1
      • Muttonbird 12.1.2

        4 March 2020 at 10:36 pm

        Most of Taranaki and all of the National Party would be supporting this. Free speech and everything.
13. Muttonbird 13

    4 March 2020 at 2:17 pm

    Rigor has a blub about being cyber-bullied one time.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/120006172/the-am-show-host-mark-richardson-says-he-was-cyberbullied-and-quit-social-media

    Umm. Mark, perhaps if you weren't such a cock most of the time people might walk on by.

    But that's not what you want, is it?
    • I Feel Love 13.1

      4 March 2020 at 2:47 pm

      Had a wee smile, there's a new Inside No 9 series out and one episode has a You Tube "influencer" that quits social media for a few hours, "OMG I felt many emojis!". Poor Mark!
    • McFlock 13.2

      4 March 2020 at 3:21 pm

      But he's totally not bovvered by it, he tells us.

      I also tend to get the impression that the "bullying" consists of responding to his opinion with disagreement. Some boxers have "glass jaws", this dude has a glass ego.
14. McFlock 14

    4 March 2020 at 3:41 pm

    So TV3 is back on air after another power cut.

    WTF? Something tells me someone's done f-all maintenance for years – either the lines company is screwing up, or the building can't keep running the studio power (maybe they're maxing out their power supply and someone turns on a heater if the temp goes below 25).

    And if it's the lines company, then TV3 (for whom power is an instant mission-critical necessity) don't have a backup in place.

    #8 wire mentality combining with short-cycle management to bite NZ in the face again? "if we can run it on the smell of an oily rag, no need to upgrade from the oily rag".
    • Matiri 14.1

      4 March 2020 at 5:02 pm

      Perhaps they haven't paid their power bill!!
15. Muttonbird 15

    4 March 2020 at 6:32 pm

    Christchurch imam Gamal Fouda calls for an annual memorial event for March 15 victims

    Here's an example of Islam belonging in a new country. The topic is the memorial event for March 15 victims.

    We are told annual recognition isn't part of Islamic culture and that's fine, but right-wing commenters and David Farrar in particular decided to use this to attack the Christchurch City Council who had organised the event for the people of Christchurch, and to attack the Labour led government.

    Think about that for a minute. Wingnuts, with David Farrar at the helm, after this unprecedented atrocity, sought to trash a local Muslim leader's efforts to meet Kiwi tradition solely to score political points.

    I'm not surprised the far right in New Zealand want us all to forget about that mass-murder, because it was perpetrated by one of their own. A man who spoke like they did about Muslims.

    What revolting human beings they are.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12312945
16. sumsuch 16

    4 March 2020 at 11:40 pm

    I haven't been there in a while, but Kiwiblog has 400 comments a day. The way of ignorance. We the intelligent have to struggle on.
17. sumsuch 17

    4 March 2020 at 11:47 pm

    And the Murdoch/Trumpian media and politics so near. Bridges tries it on but he has character of some sort. Not a complete fool like Morrison. Just requires an unscrupulous non-NZer in spirit … Or a charismatic bullshitter.

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