Open mike 05/11/2023

32 comments on “Open mike 05/11/2023 ”

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1. Stephen D 1

   5 November 2023 at 8:10 am

   Lawrence Freedman is always an interesting read. Long, but summed up in: no end in sight.

   https://open.substack.com/pub/samf/p/casualties-and-conflict-gaza-and?r=aax0&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
   • Adrian Thornton 1.1

     5 November 2023 at 10:18 am

     That was a pretty flimsy piece.
     I also found that reading through his other bits on this subject, that he often either lacks context, by leaving out or at best lightly brushing over or playing down vital recent and/or historical information.

     I also find his starting points for his 'analysis' very colonial….but then that would suit many readers I guess.

     Not a serious source on this particular issue IMO, maybe he is better on other issues?
     • Terry 1.1.1

       5 November 2023 at 5:41 pm

       I'm not too sure what you mean by your comment. I found his article very interested and informed, on both the Israel/Gaza conflict and the Ukraine/Russia conflict. I can only assume that is because the writer is not explicitly blaming the Jews Israeli's, USA & western Europe.

       What I've personally found interesting is the number of Muslim Palestinian Israeli citizens in Israel. I had been led to believe was that the Jews Israeli's hated Muslims and the "darkies". When I first visited Israel I was pleasantly surprised to find the racial and religious tolerance would put the average New Zealander to shame. However outside of Israel in the middle east, racial and religious tolerance is not really a concept.

       I'm fully aware that my comment flys in the face of some people's political ideology, but as a heretic, I have always gone with reality & science.

       The state of Israel exists, we either accept that fact, or we support the eradication of Israel and the Jews on a scale that would humble the like of Hitler, Hitler and the rest of the Nazi regime.
       • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1.1

         5 November 2023 at 6:12 pm

         There are certainly some Israelis who are strongly racist, think all Arabs should die etc – I've personally met the odd one, and the settler groups are generally terrible. But many Israelis are secular and more moderate.

         Good luck trying to find any tolerance among hamas…
         • Terry 1.1.1.1.1

           5 November 2023 at 8:44 pm

           Certainly there are intolerant people, in all countries. From my experience much of the Jewish Israeli people I came into contact with, just want to live in peace. They have their religion, while others have their religion, weather it’s Christian or Islam.

           what is sadly unsurprising is the attitude from educated middle class white liberals in NZ who cannot comprehend that the Jews Israelis are decent people. What I find interesting is that the same people who care about the “Palestinian cause” don’t care about the human rights of other muslim people such as Syria, or say the ethnic cleansing of muslims in the former communist Yugoslavia
           • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.1.1.1.1.1

             6 November 2023 at 11:40 am

             Completely agree. What we see in some liberals is a demonstration of the horseshoe theory, in my opinion.

             And many are soaking in a rich brew of russian propaganda.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   5 November 2023 at 8:54 am

   Blob theory: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/03/world/earth-moon-theia-collision-llvps-scn/index.html

   there are two massive, distinct blobs that are embedded deep within the Earth. The masses — called large low-velocity provinces, or LLVPs — were first detected in the 1980s. One lies beneath Africa and another below the Pacific Ocean.
   These blobs are thousands of kilometers wide and likely more dense with iron compared with the surrounding mantle, making them stand out when measured by seismic waves. But the origins of the blobs — each of which are larger than the moon — remain a mystery to scientists.

   But for Dr. Qian Yuan, a geophysicist and postdoctoral fellow at the California Institute of Technology and the new study’s lead author, his understanding of LLVPs forever changed when he attended a 2019 seminar at Arizona State University, his alma mater, that outlined the giant-impact hypothesis. That’s when he learned new details about Theia, the mysterious projectile that presumably struck Earth billions of years ago.

   And, as a trained geophysicist, he knew of those mysterious blobs hidden in Earth’s mantle. Yuan had a eureka moment, he said. Immediately, he began perusing scientific studies, searching to see whether someone else had proposed that LLVPs might be fragments of Theia, but no one had.

   I bought & read a book updating the history of Luna several months ago which featured Theia as hypothesis plus theory and was surprised how much consensus was supporting both. The cosmic dimension of physics is cosmology:

   Cosmology (from Ancient Greek κόσμος (cosmos) 'the universe, the world', and λογία (logia) 'study of') is a branch of physics and metaphysics dealing with the nature of the universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology

   As you can see, the metaphysical basis is included because it represents our conceptual relation to cosmos.
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     5 November 2023 at 9:15 am

     Our conceptual relation to cosmos is informed by traditional mental models. The primary one outside the academic arena uses deeper metaphysics.

     Astrologers use a diagram called the horoscope to represent an event in relation to cosmos, to discern meaning in the event. For an election outcome, one must identify the moment it occurs, which is the closing of polls @ 7pm on election day. The location is where the state is governed, the computer presents the chart when you do your data entry. The wheel (zodiac) represents cosmos, the horizontal axis represents the local horizon & the vertical axis represents the local meridian, and the top end of that (midheaven) represents connection to hierarchy (govt).

     There's an interpretive language & code used to ascertain meaning, which is thus constituted by subjective artistry (usually lack of) & a relatively objective theory (of which most astrologers have a marginal grasp). The lunar nodal axis is tertiary, representing origin (south node) and destiny (north node). The horizon represents consciousness/identity at the zodiac degree rising and self/other interactions at the degree setting. The meridian represents power – status/reputation at the midheaven & belonging/Gaia at the base.

     My take on the election outcome chart a while back was a hung parliament due to the new moon in Libra happening at the time. Instead, we got the balance point via NZF control of the state. Saturn (reality) is in the 11th house (groups) opposing Venus (pleasure) which means unpleasant limits & difficulties for political parties. Jupiter (luck, opportunities) trine midheaven (authority) in the 2nd (resources) means fortunate relations with the global powers that be & the economy. Uranus in the 2nd means innovation in resourcing (inventions) & trine Pluto makes it regenerative.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.1

       5 November 2023 at 10:20 am

       https://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Pluto-Trine-North-Node
       [ORDER NOW and save US $7]

       A marginal grasp of relatively objective theory leads some astrologers to rely overly on la lune. Oh, être dans la lune – time for a walk.

       A cloud: ‘reading the earth with its blind shadow’ [16 Oct 2023]
       • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1

         5 November 2023 at 10:42 am

         My reading of clouds remains the one I formed mid-1960s. In the ATC we got instructed in recognising cloud formations & weather patterns.

         The sublunary view was a paradigm amongst christian theologians through the middle ages – it connected with folk mythology as ruler of mundane change. Bowie's Changes comes to mind, or more to the point, the 1966 minor hit by the same name (Crispian St Peters). My deep Green view correlates the moon in the horoscope with biological function; needs, feelings, emotions.

         Over-reliance is something I've seen in those who take moon calendars rather too seriously, so your point about that is valid. Four decades of observing correlations with real-life situations has eased my original scepticism. I concede more to folk wisdom nowadays. Empirical learning beats indoctrination!
3. mikesh 3

   5 November 2023 at 10:15 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/132800974/the-gravy-train-is-over-why-my-tiniest-violin-is-out-for-landlords?cx_testId=23&cx_testVariant=cx_1&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s

   One of the best articles I have read yet regarding the problems in the rental market.

   It’s bad enough that landlords are profiting from you and your neighbours' suffering, we shouldn’t have to read their sob stories too.
   • Adrian Thornton 3.1

     5 November 2023 at 10:25 am

     Unfortunately for New Zealand nothing serious will be done about our obscene housing/rental problems…..Labour/National are both captured and controled by Free Market fundamentalists…end of story.
     • SPC 3.1.1

       5 November 2023 at 2:18 pm

       The removal of the mortgage cost deduction against rent income from existing property – to incentivise new builds and the 10 year brightline test did suggest some difference.

       That, rental standards and protections from eviction.

       But yeah – the failure to act in accord with Greens in limiting rent increases to 3% pa was disappointing.

       And the other failure to bring in a wealth tax and or estate tax, while it is more a tax and inequality matter it provides the finance to build more state houses and assist equity share support into ownership.
4. Sanctuary 4

   5 November 2023 at 10:31 am

   How much do the toxic, aging colonels of Rogernomics yearn for a second coup?

   This much.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/301001542/inside-the-national-caucus-mps-are-frustrated-and-want-a-radical-change
   • Dennis Frank 4.1

     5 November 2023 at 11:20 am

     Hmmm…

     Casey Costello was a board member, and deputy chair, of the free-market activist group the TaxPayers Union, thanked and served alongside Ruth Richardson. That Peters selected her, and at number three on the list, is a sign of his thinking at this stage of his career.

     Good point, but how much he will support reform is the big question. Will he delegate her to liaise with ACT? Seems the obvious thing to do.
   • Adrian Thornton 4.2

     5 November 2023 at 12:03 pm

     They would be better off waiting for the next Labour Govt to get their "second coup"…if the history of radical free market economics in Western politics is anything to go by.
     • bwaghorn 4.2.1

       5 November 2023 at 12:29 pm

       Probably right, if one thing national/tory/conservatives hate is change, good functionaries but incapable of flexibility, foresight or radical anything, should only ever be middle management
     • Dennis Frank 4.2.2

       5 November 2023 at 1:19 pm

       True believers remain stalwart no matter what happens:

       most types of neoliberalism reduce to the term “markets.” Get the planners and the policymakers out of the way and let the markets find solutions. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/07/24/the-rise-and-fall-of-neoliberalism

       Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway’s “The Big Myth: How American Business Taught Us to Loathe Government and Love the Free Market” (Bloomsbury) adds a third dimension to the story. In their account, neoliberalism—they prefer the term “market fundamentalism,” which they credit to George Soros—represents the triumph of decades of pro-business lobbying. They also tell the intellectual story and the political story of neoliberalism, so their book is, in effect, three histories [triad] piled on top of one another. This makes for a very thick volume.

       Boomers grew out of post-war malaise into boom-time revival:

       It was a neoliberal’s nightmare – yet between 1950 and 1973 the world G.D.P. grew at the fastest rate in history. The United States and Western Europe experienced remarkably high rates of growth and low levels of wealth inequality—in fact, the lowest anywhere at any time.

       In 1959, the poverty rate in the United States was 22%; in 1973, it was 11%. It was also a period of “liberation.” People felt free, acted out their freedom, and wanted more of it. They weren’t supposed to feel that way. They were supposed to be passive and dependent.

       Controllers went uh-oh, switch to plan B! Get top lawyers & judges to create new rules:

       The constitutional authority for the anti-discrimination provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act is the commerce clause. You can’t tell the story of business’s war on government without taking this legal context into account. Due process and the commerce clause were the weapons the antagonists fought with, and, as it generally does, the Supreme Court had the last word… in 1980, C.E.O.s were paid about 42 times as much as the average employee; in 2016, they were paid 347 times as much.
       • Adrian Thornton 4.2.2.1

         5 November 2023 at 3:37 pm

         Dennis Frank +1
         The other key component of post war Free Market fundamentalism is that they have effectively and specifically taken control of pretty much every serious 'Left' wing political party in the West…thereby nicely (for them) nullifying the one path we citizens had of putting up any sort of resistance to their madness….which is why I stopped voting for NZ Labour, who as we all know, have been completely captured by these dangerous goons.

         Corbyn in the UK was probably the closest we (the West) came to regaining some sort of control of this monster…unfortunately for us, this was also when anyone with half a brain came to understand that all Western MSM had also been captured by the same ideology…The Guardian being one of the most aggressive defenders of the free market status quo.
5. ianmac 5

   5 November 2023 at 1:31 pm

   Anyone notice how Luxon is rushing from mike to camera to doorways with speed and grin and spilling as usual non messages? This is a ploy I think to show confidence and energy to the waiting lenses but I think overdone bigly. If he really is confident and in charge, he would not need to act like a fly on a dose of fly killer. Fraud I tell you!
   • bwaghorn 5.1

     5 November 2023 at 3:24 pm

     Still electioneering, just incase!!
6. observer 6

   5 November 2023 at 3:56 pm

   The story so far …

   Fri – Day zero: Election result.

   Sat – Day one: gets bad

   Sun -Day two: gets worse …

   Winston Peters blasts 'moron' Jack Tame, NZ media in Port Waikato (1news.co.nz)

   If that's the next Deputy PM, buy shares in a popcorn company ASAP.
   • Dennis Frank 6.1

     5 November 2023 at 7:32 pm

     That bluster seems more than a tad uncool. I suspect he's doing it for the hillbilly vote though – a careful pitch for the hicks around Port Waikato. Can't blame Jack for asking dumb questions given him by the hierarchy. Goes with the job. Maybe W thinks he can seduce Labour voters into a pile-on to defeat that grey-space Nat.
7. Adrian Thornton 7

   5 November 2023 at 4:37 pm

   2 Nov
   "Hundreds of dual passport holders and dozens of seriously injured Palestinians were allowed to leave Gaza on Wednesday after more than three weeks under siege"

   It is incredible the these two lines can get printed and no one seemed to see a problem with it….this is how deep Western imperial racism runs.

   There are 24,000 wounded and injured in Gaza, the hospitals have been hit by Israeli terrorist multiple times, there is no fuel or water or food to keep the few that are intact running…why the fuck wouldn't the seriously wounded and children be the first to leave the hell hole?

   Well it turns out that it was upto Hamas to insist on this….
   5th Nov
   "There have been problems at the Rafah crossing into Egypt – the only way out of Gaza – with reports saying that foreign nationals were not being allowed to leave the territory. Hamas was reportedly asking for more wounded people to leave before more foreigners could leave"
   • Belladonna 7.1

     5 November 2023 at 6:28 pm

     why the fuck wouldn't the seriously wounded and children be the first to leave the hell hole?

     That's a question for Egypt.

     The Rafah crossing is controlled by Egypt.
     My understanding is that they explicitly do not want an influx of Palestinian refugees. As they regard them as extreme jihadists. And there has historically been little support from other Middle Eastern countries for displaced Palestinians.

     https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67133675

     Israel has considerable 'influence' over incoming aid via Rafah (specifically wanting to restrict any military supplies- in which category they include fuel) – but is not particularly interested in monitoring people leaving Gaza into Egypt.

     A guarantee of medical aid from Middle Eastern countries via the Red Crescent (AFAICS, not yet provided) – to establish substantial medical facilities in Egypt – would be a prerequisite to Egypt opening up this border. There has currently been WHO medical support, but this has been geared to providing medical relief to hospitals inside Gaza. As well as offers of refugee resettlement for those who wish to take up this option.

     Israel has currently said that Palestinians leaving for medical treatment would be allowed to return. This was a prerequisite for Egypt allowing any injured to cross the borders. You can believe as much of that 'guarantee' as you choose…. (personally, I think the chances of Israel allowing Palestinians to return are somewhere between fat and slim)

     https://www.axios.com/2023/11/01/israel-hamas-war-palestinians-egypt-return-after-hospitals
   • SPC 7.2

     5 November 2023 at 8:32 pm

     …why the fuck wouldn't the seriously wounded and children be the first to leave the hell hole?

     I think you'll find the most seriously wounded are the ones unable to safely be moved (why the staff there cannot move down south as asked) – then when they can medevac issues – pauses and routes etc.

     A hospital ship at sea is a better bet for them – helicopter movement.

     Moving children would require Egypt taking in Palestinian refugees in Sinai (they are very wary of this).
8. Reality 8

   5 November 2023 at 4:38 pm

   Winston Peters is a grouchy, angry, rude old man these days with an ego requiring a lot of attention.
   • Patricia Bremner 8.1

     5 November 2023 at 5:47 pm

     Winston Peters is very calculated in all he does and says.

     He will butt heads with those who recognise cultural difference, as he believes in assimilation. "All New Zealanders".

     Everyone appears to be considering their, Chris Seymore and Winston coalition differences, and forgetting land and money as their meal, served with self determination sauce.

     If you are able grow some veg, get 3 hens, buy in basics, pay of cards etc, and buckle up for austerity.
9. Ffloyd 9

   5 November 2023 at 6:09 pm

   Got Winston fatigue already. He is a very wearisome old man who just needs to be quiet.
10. Belladonna 10

    5 November 2023 at 6:53 pm

    The infighting on Wellington Council seems to be getting worse.

    The division between the mayor, and some of the more 'right' councillors, looks as though it's becoming unbridgeable.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington-councillor-accuses-mayor-of-politically-motivated-attack-rejects-claims-of-leak/VLAGIDD67VEYLOO3LC6KKMKD6I/
    • bwaghorn 10.1

      6 November 2023 at 6:27 am

      I notice Calvert never actually denied leaking. !
      • Belladonna 10.1.1

        6 November 2023 at 10:10 am

        According to the story, Whanau hasn't even asked her (or anyone else).

        And that's the point. The council (as in the elected representatives) do not have a working relationship. When the first port of call for the Mayor is to bring in 'independent' investigators, rather than talking to the Councillors that she is concerned about, it's painfully evident.

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