Greenpeace: Luxon’s threat to roll back climate action at odds with emissions targets

32 comments on “Greenpeace: Luxon’s threat to roll back climate action at odds with emissions targets ”

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1. Alien Observer 1

   4 November 2023 at 11:48 am

   Lots of people say we are too small to have an impact on climate change. This is probably true, but it carries the risk that a major trading partner or contract buyer (Nestlé maybe) will use us to make a point.

   Our dairy industry is not huge on a world scale, but it's massive for us. What if half of it disappeared on the lack of climate action?

   Canceling our imports wouldn't make a big, inflationary, difference to the buyers market, but would be catastrophic for us. We are not too big to fail. As a small nation, can we take the risk?
   • Ghostwhowalks 1.1

     4 November 2023 at 12:00 pm

     Thats a false argument to say we are too small . Its a shared thing , like when we pay our dues to EQC for disaster insurance . Everyone pays the same rate no matter the location – High risk locations pay the same as low risk northern North Island

     Same situation in WW2 little NZ provided its share
   • Incognito 1.2

     4 November 2023 at 12:51 pm

     Dairy co-operative Fonterra has been named the sixth-largest dairy company in the world for the third consecutive year, according to a Rabobank report.

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/473139/fonterra-named-world-s-sixth-largest-dairy-company-rabobank-report

     Fonterra has been ranked eighth out of 350 in the World Benchmarking Alliance Food and Agriculture Benchmark. In addition to this overall ranking, the Co-op was first in the animal protein category and seventh among food and beverage processors.

     This benchmark measures the progress of the world's 350 most influential Food and Agriculture companies towards the United Nations Sustainable Business Development Goals. This is based on a company's commitments and reported achievements in governance and strategy, environment, nutrition, and social inclusion.

     https://www.nzmp.com/global/en/news/world-benchmark-alliance-2021.html

     Your argument about relative size as a reason to be a prime mover or not move at all in a meaningful way is fraud & flawed for many reasons.

     The fact is that we all are in this together. Therefore, all countries have a responsibility and an opportunity to contribute to a solution, irrespective of their size or impact.

     Given that everything and everybody is linked in this world, one way or another, we should balance the interests and values of all people, not just our own. This means that smaller countries should not use their relative size or contribution as an excuse to avoid taking action, but rather as a motivation to join the global effort and seek cooperation and support from larger countries.

     Smaller countries should not only consider the economic costs and benefits of taking action, but also the moral and social implications of not taking action.

     Climate change is not a zero-sum game, in which one’s gain is someone else's loss, but rather it’s a positive-sum game, where actions can create value for individual countries and for others.

     The bigger picture is to try to increase the value for all countries and people(s), not just redistribute it. Thus, we should look beyond our borders (the ‘here’) and look (out for) the global community and future generations (aka our children and grandchildren) (the ‘now’).

     You can see from the above that clearly, the political Right will have to do more ‘heavy lifting’ and it’s already apparent that the Government-to-come is not prepared to do this.

     PS I haven’t read the OP yet and I’m just responding to this particular comment because it promulgates the usual RW talking points and encapsulates the usual denial and refusal to act, now, later, or ever – après moi, le deluge.
     • Ghostwhowalks 1.2.1

       4 November 2023 at 1:31 pm

       Im not saying we dont do anything

       Im saying your claims about worlds largest milk powder exporters have no relevance when top 16 incl NZ production 550 mill tons of milk per year

       we are 4% of world milk production. Thats not to say we shouldnt do something but enough of the false claims about 'largest anything'
       • Incognito 1.2.1.1

         4 November 2023 at 1:43 pm

         wrong tree?
         • Ghostwhowalks 1.2.1.1.1

           4 November 2023 at 3:35 pm

           "Your argument about relative size as a reason to be a prime mover or not move at all in a meaningful way is fraud & flawed for many reasons."

           Which isnt something I said at all. Its so hard to to have this sort of discussion when your keyboard warrior instinct kicks and make up stuff about what others think

           The relative size is about others saying thinking we are biggest… something.

           The farm emission reductions stand on their merits.
           • Incognito 1.2.1.1.1.1

             4 November 2023 at 3:46 pm

             Definitely, the wrong tree, again.

             Do you know how to follow nested comment threads?

             My comment @ 1.2 was a reply to the comment by Alien Observer @ 1.
     • AB 1.2.2

       4 November 2023 at 3:37 pm

       “it promulgates the usual RW talking points”

       Yeah, there are a few delusions involved:

       • That NZ would get away with freeloading on other people's emission reductions without the world noticing or responding because we are relatively small
       • That if one small nation reneges, then other small nations won't also renege, and precipitate a collapse of the collective commitment to do anything
       • That other countries that are bigger producers of dairy (like India) will take a knife to their own national food security by allowing NZ's lower-emissions production to supplant their own higher emissions production – on the grounds that this is a rational climate change response at a global level.
       • Incognito 1.2.2.1

         4 November 2023 at 3:53 pm

         Well said.

         To the last bullet point, the knife cuts both ways, i.e., if smaller nations wait for the big one(s) to move first, and the big one(s) wait for the smaller ones to be take their first step or at least be very fast followers then we’ll get those weird kind of stalemate at those weigh-ins before boxing bouts where the first one to blink loses. They’re hilarious, unlike the inaction re. climate change.
         • bwaghorn 1.2.2.1.1

           4 November 2023 at 4:29 pm

           If Joe farmer halved his heard tomorrow, could he access ets or carbon reduction money?
           • Incognito 1.2.2.1.1.1

             4 November 2023 at 6:01 pm

             I believe that the short answer is “No”, because farmers aren’t paying anything yet, which would have started in 2025 but National has indicated it would push back to 2030.
           • mikesh 1.2.2.1.1.2

             5 November 2023 at 10:50 am

             Brian Bruce mentioned in his latest documentary, on food, that NZ's self sufficiency in wheat was sacrificed to make way way for increased dairying. I think it would be good policy to reverse that, and return that land to wheat growing once again.
             • pat …

               5 November 2023 at 2:44 pm

               "The decline in NZ wheat production has been attributed to the inability of the NZ product to compete with imported wheat in terms of quality consistency and Changes in the Wheat Industry price, especially in the North Island. In the deregulated trading environment, food processors have tightened their flour specification requirements and because of a lack of product consistency millers have not always been able to meet these requirements using NZ wheats alone. As well as this, the cost of transporting wheat from the South Island to North Island mills has been high, and North Island mills have been able to land wheat from Australia at more competitive prices."

               https://www.agronomysociety.org.nz/files/SP8_1._Changing_face_of_wheat_industry.pdf

               The problem existed long before the rise of dairying in Canterbury as this 1992/3 paper notes
               • weka …

                 5 November 2023 at 3:35 pm

                 that's a comment on the export economy, right? Which is different from domestic food resiliency.
                 • pat …

                   5 November 2023 at 4:20 pm

                   The two are not seperate….especially when you wish to consider the ability of the needs of the financially challenged (an increasing cohort).

                   Long before the dairy boom in Canterbury it was cheaper to ship milled wheat from Australia to the North Island market than to supply from the South Island (which may say something about our transport system) nevermind the fact that production per hectare was higher here.

                   Much of the wheat grown in NZ is consumed by livestock (dairy, finishing cattle, poultry) and because of our high stocking ratios supplements imported feed, so if we use our production to supply more milling wheat to the North Island we may well end up importing even more PKE (and the like) from offshore.

                   There are a multitude of reasons (many environmental) to reduce dairy in Canterbury but milling wheat isnt really one of them…..and if we reduce dairy herd numbers nationally we need to either replace that offshore income and/or reduce the level of imports…indeed we need to do that anyway.

                   And resilience is no good if only the wealthy can access that which remains available.
           • Tricledrown 1.2.2.1.1.3

             5 November 2023 at 6:33 pm

             I keep up to date with Farming news and the big news is farming profitability is now marginal in virtually all sectors. Costs for inputs are rapidly rising profits are down .So farmers who use sustainable methods will be more profitable those who follow traditional methods will go bankrupt in large numbers because fuel fertilizers pesticides weed killers and Labour are all trending up,faster than inflation banks will be reluctant to finance farming.So farming will change to more profitable sustainable methods whether farmers like it or not.
             • Graeme …

               5 November 2023 at 9:38 pm

               Farmers with little to moderate debt will probably be able to pivot to a more sustainable system, financially and environmentally.

               The people and companies that supply the fuel, fertiliser pesticides weed killers machinery and finance (often all the same company) might find the transition bit more challenging. Along with the farmers those companies have got mortgaged to the hilt to have the pivot, 1000 cows and the new tractor, which unfortunately is a very large proportion of farmers. When it all unwinds it could get messy.

               Hence the angst in the industry.
   • Bearded Git 1.3

     5 November 2023 at 11:26 am

     Rishi Sunak said the UK was responsible for less than 1 per cent of the world's carbon emissions when he dumped many climate friendly measures a couple of months ago.

     It's no excuse.
2. Ad 2

   4 November 2023 at 12:00 pm

   Alien, NZ is the largest exporter of milk powder in the entire world. NZ Dairy CO2 and methane is waaaaaay disproportionate to our geographic or human population size.

   Per capita we are one of the largest polluters in the world.

   Cars and milk, however, is what this new government lives for.
   • Ghostwhowalks 2.1

     4 November 2023 at 12:05 pm

     Largest exporter of milk powder yes. But our dairy milk production is around 21 mill tonnes per year

     EU dairy production is 143 mill tons. India and US are around 100 mill per year each

     The climate doesnt care where the milk comes from by country

     https://www.statista.com/statistics/268191/cow-milk-production-worldwide-top-producers/
   • pat 2.2

     4 November 2023 at 12:21 pm

     "Cars and milk, however, is what this new government lives for."

     It may be more accurate to say 'cars and milk is what the people of NZ live by'.

     We (increasingly) need to import and we have no available transport alternatives.
     • mikesh 2.2.1

       5 November 2023 at 10:55 am

       we have no available transport alternatives.

       This is patently untrue. We should be beefing up our public transport options; particularly electrified public transport options.
       • pat 2.2.1.1

         5 November 2023 at 1:59 pm

         Key word 'available'.

         We should indeed be providing alternatives and not just for public transport but also freight….but unfortunately mikesh the statement is patently correct.
   • Alien Observer 2.3

     4 November 2023 at 12:54 pm

     Yeah. So when did you last live on milk powder? Most major dairy nations process their production, making more money and lowering the chances of their contracts being canceled.

     You are arguing with me by making my point stronger. Which nation has won the dinosaur award for doing the least climate change work? Quick hint – you live in it.
     • Ghostwhowalks 2.3.1

       4 November 2023 at 1:24 pm

       Thats because a lot of other countries changes have come from the reductions in fossil fuel for power generation

       Which nation was already at 80% and often higher ( right now is 94%) renewable energy and doesnt have the low hanging fruit generation change remaining

       Most other countries dont include agriculture in their gross emissions either

       So we shouldnt be compared to everyone else
     • Tricledrown 2.3.2

       5 November 2023 at 6:40 pm

       Australia is way ahead of us more cars more distance traveled,massive mines including very large coal mines then 80% of Australia's electrical supply comes from brown coal.
3. Ad 3

   4 November 2023 at 12:24 pm

   We care where it comes from, because as an agricultural economy we are the most climate vulnerable developed economy in the world.

   All politics is local.
   • Ghostwhowalks 3.1

     4 November 2023 at 1:32 pm

     ALL agriculture is climate vulnerable, because …..
4. Sanctuary 4

   4 November 2023 at 12:45 pm

   The extent National has allowed culture war considerations like owning the libs to become the core plank of its climate policy is astonishing and is to the great discredit of the Trumpist adjacent faction in the party/caucus. It isn't all just cozying up to big dairy, that doesn't explain axing the clean car discount for example. You would think a "traditional" conservative party would embrace initiatives to replace ICE vehicles just on balance of payments grounds alone! After all, conservatives should be all about preserving the environment if only to protect the countryside for fox hunting.
   • AB 4.1

     4 November 2023 at 5:16 pm

     "…conservatives should be all about preserving the environment…"

     That makes the Greens the real conservatives, and National the myopic champions of a radically destructive project. I think that's about right.
5. Drowsy M. Kram 5

   4 November 2023 at 6:24 pm

   Luxon's "slower to go faster" has paid off – for now. It's "back to the drawing board"!

   
   https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0309/S00040/images-farmers-fart-tax-protest-at-parliament.htm [4 Sept 2003] “Images from the National Party media unit.”

   The ‘flickering’ of Earth systems is warning us: act now, or see our already degraded paradise lost [31 Oct 2023]
   In the 2030s, 40s or 50s, when the climate crisis has manifested itself in global catastrophe, some wretched politician will be running round in circles whimpering: “Nobody told us it would be this bad.”

   "ACT now" Re per capita GHG emissions, NZ punches above it's weight – we're milking it! This graph shows where our emissions came from in 2018 – three years later (2021) transport generated 40% of CO2 emissions, and livestock 89% of 'our' methane.GHG levels in spaceship Earth's atmosphere continue to increase, and, together with declining aerosols, will lock in the imbalance between energy captured from the sun and energy lost to space for future generations. We were slow to (re)act – sorry.

   Earth Reacts to Greenhouse Gases More Strongly Than We Thought
   [3 Nov 2023]
   Climate scientists, including pioneer James Hansen, are pinning down a fundamental factor that drives how hot Earth will get

   “We’re in the process of muddling through — we’re in a period where climate change is gonna be painful for a while, it’s gonna hurt a lot of people in a lot of places, but we can get out the other side,” he [Oppenheimer] said. “I think we can get there. But will we?”

   Hansen echoed his sentiments in starker terms.

   He wrote that he’s been surprised by “the increase of anti-science know-nothing thinking in our politics.”

   “That's why I focus on young people,” he added. “They need to understand the situation and take control.”

   But young people taking control now sounds waaay too scary – their time will come.

   
   https://gml.noaa.gov/aggi/
6. Ben 6

   4 November 2023 at 10:41 pm

   JFC https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/501695/waka-kotahi-puts-funding-for-cycling-walking-and-public-transport-initiatives-on-hold

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