Open mike 08/12/2014

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1. North 1

   8 December 2014 at 7:02 am

   Check this out…….it’s positively eery.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/university-of-auckland/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503679&objectid=11369513

   There is not canvassed unfortunately the dynamic of the ‘media-construct’ charismatic leader who goes on to reflect that which the man talks about. Which is I suspect the overarching issue.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     8 December 2014 at 7:32 am

     Everything he says there, especially about the ‘dark side’, applies to Key. The aversion to taking responsibility, the lack of care about the consequences of his actions and the total disregard for anything even remotely like ethical process and action.
     • Anne 1.1.1

       8 December 2014 at 9:45 am

       And everything he said about the true leader applies to Andrew Little. Well grounded, authentic, has self awareness and is consistent and transparent. He believes in collective leadership and can work well with others.

       That was a revealing interview.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         8 December 2014 at 10:01 am

         That was a revealing interview.

         It was and one that everyone needs to watch and to apply the lessons in it to the people that they vote for.
       • Philip Ferguson 1.1.1.2

         8 December 2014 at 8:16 pm

         But isn’t what he stands for the most important thing?

         What evidence is there that he stands for anything other than more of the same, with a bit of tinkering – just like the last Labour government. And the income and wealth gaps grew under that government.

         https://rdln.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/income-and-wealth-inequality-unchanged-by-last-labour-government/

         Or perhaps he will be more like the third Labour government:
         https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/anti-working-class-to-its-core-the-third-labour-government/

         Until we start thinking outside the parties that want to *administer* the system and to a new movement based on workers’ needs, aren’t we just kidding ourselves about making things better?

         Phil
         • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2.1

           8 December 2014 at 8:45 pm

           There Is An Alternative

           There are many ways in which it operates, but perhaps the most obvious is through our unreformed political funding system, which permits big business and multimillionaires effectively to buy political parties. Once a party is obliged to them, it needs little reminder of where its interests lie. Fear and favour rule.

           Who owns our politicians and political parties?
   • ianmac 1.2

     8 December 2014 at 9:28 am

     So weirdly true of Dear Leader Key! Well spotted North. In the past some have claimed good leadership by being bossy and autocratic and demand adherence. But it is more lasting if the team is consulted and listened to.
     Always wonder what caucus meetings are like for National. The dark side of Key would be there leaving the public friendly matey persona for public viewing.
     • ianmac 1.2.1

       8 December 2014 at 9:34 am

       Wonder how David Cunliffe would fit?
       • ankerawshark 1.2.1.1

         8 December 2014 at 12:19 pm

         I am interested in that too Ianmac.

         I guess we have seen what DC does when he gets demoted…….when Shearer did this he sat on the back benches and made a meal out of his fisheries port folio.

         Also he did step aside from the leadership contest.

         It seems like one of Cunliffe’s weaknesses is that he didn’t have a lot of charisma. Not universally liked by caucus or members of the msm (the latter who so love John Key!)
   • emergency mike 1.3

     8 December 2014 at 2:23 pm

     Though he touches on the dangers of narcissism and the need for leaders to remain vigilant against smugness, I would have liked to him to have acknowledged the possibility of charismatic leaders being outright sociopaths. I.e. not merely people who have fallen into hubris and arrogance during their leadership, but those who were in it for themselves from the start.

     For me that’s the issue of our time, the one stop us from dealing with our serious long term problems; our political structures are tailor made for sociopaths.
2. Draco T Bastard 2

   8 December 2014 at 7:18 am

   Auckland traffic snarl-up hell: The solutions

   Apparently the solutions are more roads that induce more cars and congestion rather than mass transit systems that take cars off the road.
   • karol 2.1

     8 December 2014 at 8:28 am

     I am absolutely staggered at the amount of cars on the road at the weekend. Part of the problem must be that public transport provides less of a service at weekends.
     • Rob 2.1.1

       8 December 2014 at 9:54 am

       Why , were you driving Karol?
       • karol 2.1.1.1

         8 December 2014 at 8:29 pm

         Normally I drive as little as possible. My activity at the weekend required moving stuff that I could only do with a car – and very frustrating it was for such a strenuous weekend. And something I rarely need to do, and that I had planned for the weekend thinking the traffic would be relatively light.
     • tc 2.1.2

       8 December 2014 at 9:57 am

       the weekends in akl I’ve always found worse at certain times/areas as sport and shopping create larger flows than weekdays around the likes of St Lukes and the sporting grounds have nowhere near enough parking especially Mt Albert, Mangere mountain etc.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3

       8 December 2014 at 10:00 am

       Yep. There is that but, as I understand Auckland Transport, they’re looking at having the public transport timings the same throughout the week which would be excellent. Throw in proper integrated ticketing and it’s soon going to be a much better idea for people to use PT to go to work in Auckland than use a car.
     • Clemgeopin 2.1.4

       8 December 2014 at 10:31 am

       How about in Auckland…

       [1] A special extra levy of 5c/every litre of petrol and diesel (in auckland region only) and the money collected to be used for extra buses and train services which should continuously cater for most roads/areas in the city at very frequent intervals such as every 15 minutes. [This should generate in Auckland for 1.5 million vehicles, each using about 1000 litres per year, a total revenue of $75 million dollars + revenue from the passenger tickets+advertisements. Enough to rapidly increase public transport and jobs each year and reduce congestion too at the same time. Use electric vehicles if possible]

       [2] A fixed cost of $2 ticket, every time you enter a bus or train, for any distance travelled per trip.

       Is this idea good or quite stupid?
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.4.1

         8 December 2014 at 1:04 pm

         It’s what we had (Except that it was 10/litre) until National took it away.
         • JanM 2.1.4.1.1

           8 December 2014 at 6:52 pm

           How funny – I thought it was still there – I live in Northland but go to Auckland every so often and try never to fill up in Auckland because it costs up to 14c a litre more!
       • lprent 2.1.4.2

         8 December 2014 at 1:14 pm

         We tried the first. It was called a regional tax and passed into law before National tossed it out in 2009.
         • Jenny Kirk 2.1.4.2.1

           8 December 2014 at 5:12 pm

           Did the “regional tax” actually become a reality, or was it a last-minute gesture from the Labour Govt, and never had a chance to become a reality under the Nats ? I thought it never got off the ground.
           • lprent 2.1.4.2.1.1

             8 December 2014 at 10:50 pm

             It passed and was due to kick in Jan 1 2009. The delay was to allow for the required mechanisms for collection to be done and for it to run through some kind of local voting.

             http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Auckland#Funding
         • Clemgeopin 2.1.4.2.2

           8 December 2014 at 8:22 pm

           What is wrong with this RW thinking National crowd? What is their motive behind taking this progressive policy away?
           • Draco T Bastard 2.1.4.2.2.1

             8 December 2014 at 9:07 pm

             What is their motive behind taking this progressive policy away?

             They want more cars on the road, not less and higher fuel prices would decrease the number of cars on the road – exactly as we’ve seen over the last few years.
           • lprent 2.1.4.2.2.2

             8 December 2014 at 10:56 pm

             They also don’t like the idea of a political powerbase arising in Auckland without needing to put their hands out to Wellington for funding all of the time.

             This is what has been so interesting about recent legislation on rates and the like in local government. Almost everything National has done in this area apart from the super-city trend has been to make it harder for local democracy.

             It isn’t hard to argue that the super-city trend has been a failed attempt to impose a corporate culture on local governance. Which went horribly wrong in Auckland as National’s proxy in Auckland city (C&R) fell apart with the widened city.
     • Ecosse_Maidy 2.1.5

       8 December 2014 at 7:46 pm

       Well the weekend traffic in Auckland was bad they are still talking about it in the papers.Christmas most probably didn’t help or the accident on the harbour bridge We do need a better system of transport i believe we are getting a transport hub out here in west Auckland ..its planned..and I daresay other places will get them too.

       What staggered me over the whole affair was of all the comments made I never heard one showing any sympathy for the three bike riders involved in the accident on the bridge with bikes versus truck. Two left the scene in critical condition and one in a serious condition.but all you heard from Aucklanders was how long they had to sit in the traffic……………………poor buggers having to sit in traffic,…how sad.
       • karol 2.1.5.1

         9 December 2014 at 8:20 am

         Yes. I did sound like a nasty accident. As an ex-motorbiker, I know how vulnerable bikers are in relation to bigger vehicles – and a truck is the biggest. I hope the motorcyclists are recovering well.

         I think the gridlock tended to overshadow the details of the accident because the gridlock was exceptional, and seemed out of all proportion to an accident. Usually an accident results in holdups on the road/s where it happened.

         On Saturday, I went nowhere near the harbour bridge & accident site. I was travelling westward on the North Western motorway, on my way to collect another carload of stuff. The North western was almost at a standstill – inching forwards.

         I could hear on the radio that there was an accident on the bridge that was causing holdups on the roads to the bridge. I didn’t think it had anything to do with the North Western gridlock – seemed so unlikely. I was expecting to find some blockage up ahead. Tried going off the motorway, but all the roads around it were also in gridlock as many others were trying to find an alternative route.

         I was just completely staggered that there was so much traffic on Auckland roads on a Saturday, and that one road accident would bring the whole of Auckland’s motorway system to a standstill.

         It now seems that many people were using the North Western as an alternative route to get to the north shore via the Upper Harbour Highway.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.2

     8 December 2014 at 5:53 pm

     Need to build missing modes to avoid congestion

     Yesterday’s incident also shows highlights that even an additional harbour crossing wouldn’t have helped. As people tried to avoid the hold up they flooded to use the North-Western Motorway and that too soon jammed up. With an additional crossing the same thing would have happened as masses of people diverted their trips to avoid the bridge. It’s also worth pointing out that the opening of the Waterview Connection isn’t going to make this any better either as the project is expected to see traffic volumes on the motorway increase. This is due to new trips being generated thanks to the connection as well as a lot of trips shift from local roads on to the motorway network. The result would be even more people stuck in congestion – many deep underground.

     Overall, a good write up about why adding more roads (as the idiots want to do) won’t make things better and why adding better PT will.
3. Draco T Bastard 3

   8 December 2014 at 7:43 am

   Free Trade Deals – Wake Up And Smell The Arsenic

   Oceania Gold, a New Zealand listed company, is suing the El Salvadorian government to tune of US$300 million in the International Centre for the Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID), a tribunal linked with the World Bank, for lost profits. El Salvador, a water-impoverished nation, refuses to grant them water rights to their main river to use and contaminate with the likes of cyanide and arsenic as part of a gold mining operation they have planned.

   Exactly what the ‪#‎TPPA‬ will do to us as well as it empowers corporations and profits above nations, people and life.
   • vto 3.1

     8 December 2014 at 8:00 am

     Exactly +100

     I am flabbergasted that this shit becomes law…

     These provisions take away our sovereignty directly, by affecting what how we govern ourselves.

     If any government, including this arsehole-filled one, thinks they can get away with taking away what sovereignty we have they had better think again. They have no right to remove our sovereignty in this way.
4. travellerev 4

   8 December 2014 at 8:12 am

   Israel Attacks Damascus, Britain Opens Old Bases And Kiwi Soldiers Will “Train” Fighters In Afghanistan, The Empire Ramps It Up

   McCully just came back from NATO headquarters with the news that we have been “requested” to continue to “train” more Afghan soldiers.

   Just answer me this; if we never fight how can we prove our soldiers are the chisel and good teachers in the art of war?
   • vto 4.1

     8 December 2014 at 8:16 am

     Its a con trav of course.

     By training soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan it frees up local or US soldiers to do more killing. By sending our soldiers to train we increase the number of frontline soldiers…

     … as such John Key has sent us to war and exposed us to attacks inside New Zealand by those we are at war with.

     We should be under no illusion and we should not be surprised when we are attacked within NZ. Just like Canada recently – what a load of tosh claiming that was some kind of terror attack. It was an act of war against a country that has been at war in the middle east for 14 years. 14 years ffs!

     We have been and are being conned. Just like most all wars.
     • travellerev 4.1.1

       8 December 2014 at 8:24 am

       I met Barry Zwicker once. Canadian and a good journalist:

       You might want to think again about what happened in Canada

       Leon Panetta thinks we are going to be at war wit ISIS for the next thirty years and John Key wants us to be part of that for at least 10 years!
     • North 4.1.2

       8 December 2014 at 8:37 am

       Don’t tell me John Key won’t akshilly identify the political ‘opportunities’ inherent in something horrendous happening in New Zealand.
       • tc 4.1.2.1

         8 December 2014 at 9:59 am

         already has with disaster capitalism doing quite nicely out of chch thanks.
         • Paul 4.1.2.1.1

           8 December 2014 at 8:32 pm

           Shock Doctrine alive and kicking in NZ.
           Thanks John Key.
5. just saying 5

   8 December 2014 at 8:54 am

   Easton’s Pundit column (in the right-hand column) is getting to be a bugbear.

   This week Easton is complaining about Labour “grumbling” about “beltway issues” such as workplace harrassment and the old-boys network protecting their privilege, the corruption of democracy via the two-track system, and the extension and promotion of a police surveillance state, further increasing the powers of the same spook network that it uses to manipulate election campaigns.

   Silly Labour.

   The job of the opposition in a democracy is to oppose. To provide checks and balances to the power of the government and represent the interests of the electorate, including those who did not vote for the government. They are not supposed to be spending their time auditioning for better jobs at the next election based on consumer polling and glib advice from PR gurus and marketing psychologists. Or economists.

   The working class is not stupid, Mr Easton, even if we have been force-fed junk information along with junkfood and utter bullshit for 30 years. We are not dead-eyed consumers in need of a slicker marketing campaign. We do not need politics dumbed down to a few simple slogans, vision-statements and talking points. Yes we need to see the bigger picture. Seems like you do too.
   • ianmac 5.1

     8 December 2014 at 9:39 am

     Brian Easton may be saying, “Pick your fights Labour.” Constant disagreement with the Government can just become background noise unlistened to.
     • Colonial Rawshark 5.1.1

       8 December 2014 at 1:44 pm

       Labour needs to speak to a consistent, alternative narrative. They may not need to or want to fight every single issue, but that alternative narrative should be put out there every single day.
       • aerobubble 5.1.1.1

         8 December 2014 at 2:11 pm

         Yes… ..and… …surely this “we need to match this way” is what won Cunliffe the PM spot. Please when the opportunity arises to speak about the new way, to actually talk about it, like the Greens do.
     • aerobubble 5.1.2

       8 December 2014 at 2:08 pm

       Thats the characterisation Key gives, he’s so fed up with the Opposition doing its job.
   • greywarshark 5.2

     8 December 2014 at 2:18 pm

     @ just saying
     If you know exactly what Labour needs to get elected and fix the nation’s worst ills, good on you. Can you get onto the Labour team or become a consultant. You sound so certain that they would love to hire your positivity.
6. music4menz 6

   8 December 2014 at 10:13 am

   Disappointed not to see more public condemnation of Tom Scott’s remarks about female and male rape in his interview with Kim Hill on Saturday. I’d have expected organisations such as Rape Crisis and the AIDS Foundation to have come out strongly against the trivialising of rape in rap song lyrics.
   • framu 6.1

     8 December 2014 at 12:15 pm

     which rap lyrics are trivialising rape?
   • CnrJoe 6.2

     8 December 2014 at 12:45 pm

     How about Kim Hill gets pulled up for suggesting these artists shouldn’t bite the government that feeds them?
     • greywarshark 6.2.1

       8 December 2014 at 2:14 pm

       @ Cnr Joe
       How about Tom Scott being pulled up for talking about killing John Key on a public vid. It’s not as if the shady sneaky forces have eavesdropped on him and heard a chance heated remark. That remark was a deliberate one and he talks about murder. Don’t go all anti authoritarian, freedom of speeching when it is a serious matter like this. The authorities could not let such a blatant threat be broadcast and he shouldn’t have made it on grant money. Do it in his garage at his own expense. There are plenty of musicians needing funding who can make protest without being extreme.
       • batweka 6.2.1.1

         8 December 2014 at 2:21 pm

         Afaik, he didn’t make it on grant money. The NZ on Air funding was for a video of another song entirely.

         If you want to remove murder from published songs, there’s a pretty long list.
         • Once Was Tim 6.2.1.1.1

           8 December 2014 at 3:48 pm

           that is tru batweka – however it WAS GRANT money that brought it to ‘the masses.
           I’m NOT acting as Kim Hill’s official apologist – I heard, and was listening to the programme live and I’ve subsequently listened again.
           Kim made some remark after he baled about his being a little precious – she probably shouldn’t have – but it was exaclty what I was thinking.

           Tom actually fucked up a golden opportunity – probably because he misread Kim Hill’s ‘presence’ (He’s probably never heard of the journalistic technique of acting ‘devil’s advocate’ for example – and who could blame him ….. the state of msm journalism is so fucking bad these days).
           He’d make a good Labour Party organiser now I think about it – or hopefully one that belongs in a previous generation of them.
           He should think about what his own prejudices are comprised of before assuming and misreading those of someone who is just as likely to be of a like-mind as he.
           Why fight allies when he has a shitload of enemas he could channel his efforts towards!
           Quite pathetic really.
           Best of luck in Melbourne Tom – a place you probably have more of an affinity with
           • batweka 6.2.1.1.1.1

             8 December 2014 at 5:13 pm

             Nice typo 😀

             I’m not sure if Kim Hill is an ally though. I’m sure she likes to think she is, but the thing I got from the piece was the huge class divide. I’ve listened to enough working class people now to know that middle class people wanting to help just isn’t enough unless they’re going to take the working class perspectives seriously. I don’t think Kim Hill is of like mind when it comes to class. That was his point.

             I do agree he needs a serious talking to about his gender politics.
         • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.2

           8 December 2014 at 4:07 pm

           @ Batweka
           We are talking about this murder talk, not some other ones elsewhere.

           I thought that Kim’s point was that this video formed part of the government NZ on Air funding. If it was not done with NZ on Air funding then I think that should not have been brought up at all.

           But making threatening noises at vulnerable family as well as talking murder to our PM is reprehensible. So don’t anyone come up with the argument that if family members are included in promotion for a celeb that they are then open slather. If we want a better more respectful climate for all, then it needs to apply to family unless they commit some outspoken or egregious behaviour themselves.
           • batweka 6.2.1.1.2.1

             8 December 2014 at 5:19 pm

             I agree about family, and I’ve posted my comment downthread on the sexual objectification aspect.

             I don’t have so much of a problem with a song about killing the PM though. It’s not like Scott was serious. We don’t live somewhere where PM killing happens or is in any way likely (unlike the sexual objectification part of the song), so Scott isn’t reinforcing violence so much as expressing class rage.

             “We are talking about this murder talk, not some other ones elsewhere.”

             Obviously, but I am curious if you think that all songs where someone sings about coming to kill someone are not ok.
       • The Al1en 6.2.1.2

         8 December 2014 at 2:29 pm

         Some on the left still haven’t got the enemy of my enemy isn’t necessarily my friend.

         The scott bloke seems like an ignorant arsehole to me, but then (c)rap musos have to play that game for the street cred. U da man in da hood etc…

         Instead of mouthing off rape ‘jokes’ and swearing on his exit, he should have pointed out NZonAir funds tv and radio programs that don’t always portray the government in a good way, or outlined that the rules for grants mention nothing about having to have an apolitical project.

         @ warshark – Mostly seconded.
         • batweka 6.2.1.2.1

           8 December 2014 at 2:54 pm

           Given that the spot was Playing Favourites, he shouldn’t have had to defend anything at all. Hill’s line of questioning was a disgrace. She knows full well that musicians have the freedom to criticise members of parliament, even ones that get govt funding.
           • The Al1en 6.2.1.2.1.1

             8 December 2014 at 3:04 pm

             But he was asked and responded in a particularly revolting and ignorant fashion and showed himself up to be a right tool.

             The criticism of key and the funding issue should have been front footed and turned into a couple of minutes of anti nat politics radio, not two footed in his own mouth giving ammunition to all right wingnuts everywhere.

             Artistic licence is one thing, but using rape as a weapon, whether by is terrorists or dummy rappers to make a point, really can’t be defended or excused by the left wing without shredding credibility, and let’s face it, it’s something we on the left could do with a lot more of, not less.
             • batweka …

               8 December 2014 at 3:19 pm

               There is no funding issue. That was a pre-election smear/beat up from David fucking Farrar. If Hill felt some burning need to clarify it, she should have prefaced the whole thing by telling the truth instead of repeating useless misinformation.

               “Artistic licence is one thing, but using rape as a weapon, whether by is terrorists or dummy rappers to make a point, really can’t be defended or excused by the left wing without shredding credibility, and let’s face it, it’s something we on the left could do with a lot more of, not less.”

               Of course, but (a) he’s not a spokesperson for the left, and (b) if Hill wanted to talk about that she should have told him. He was under the impression he was there to play a few of his favourite songs, not get ambushed around politics. Hill should also have prepared her argument better so that she elicited some useful responses from Scott. Instead she came across like a clever dick commenter on the standard, looking for the way to skewer her subject rather than have a meaningful exchange.

               Here’s what I said at the time,

               I actually have more of a problem with the misogyny and objectification of a woman as a way of committing violence against her father to be way more objectionable than someone wanting to kill the PM, probably because in NZ PMs don’t get shot, but women get abused and objectified all the time, and @peace just reinforced a whole bunch of fucked behaviours to an audience who already don’t get it (hence Tracey’s comment about Roast Busters).

               http://thestandard.org.nz/condemning-the-obvious/#comment-873993

               Hill shorthanding it to ‘you wanted to rape the PM’s daughter’ was next to useless, because the lyrics are more complex than that and Scott appears to not really understand gender politics. Where exactly was the conversation going to go given it was Playing Favourites?

               I thought Scott’s defense around why focus on the rape instead of the murder was stupid, but I loved his repeatedly naming how Key screws the working classes and that he said fuck on RNZ. When we discussed this earlier in the year I said that he seemed politically naive. That still seems true, but I found him being real, including the walk out, refreshing. We will have to disagree on all that of course.
               • The Al1en …

                 8 December 2014 at 3:36 pm

                 I accept what you write about there being no funding issue, but still it was raised and dealt with in a piss poor way. That should equally be taken as fact.

                 “Of course, but (a) he’s not a spokesperson for the left”

                 Neither am I, but he’s on the radio, notorious for being anti key with a song with a lyric about raping the pm’s daughter. It’s not a stretch of the imagination to assume listeners will ID him as being a typical loony lefty given his public anti key stance. Like pu for example.
                 He did a disservice to all left wingers with his ‘performance’ art.

                 “I loved his repeatedly naming how Key screws the working classes and that he said fuck on RNZ”

                 Yeah, what a champion. Rebel without a brain springs to mind. Wonder what part of the message will get through to the masses?
                 But the Sex Pistols were on Nationwide 300 years ago doing the same. A bit unoriginal, but not unexpected from a rapper.

                 “I said that he seemed politically naive.

                 Still very politically and world view naive by the sounds of it.

                 “We will have to disagree on all that of course.”

                 No doubt about that 😉 🙂
                 • batweka …

                   8 December 2014 at 5:27 pm

                   “That should equally be taken as fact.”

                   Hill is a professional interviewer. Scott isn’t a professional interviewee. I think the onus is way more on her to have managed the whole thing better, and I’ll just keep repeating, this was Playing Favourites not Morning Report. She fucked up, which is why I think it’s good he walked.

                   “Neither am I, but he’s on the radio, notorious for being anti key with a song with a lyric about raping the pm’s daughter. It’s not a stretch of the imagination to assume listeners will ID him as being a typical loony lefty given his public anti key stance. Like pu for example.
                   He did a disservice to all left wingers with his ‘performance’ art.”

                   Hmmm, I think his primary responsibility is to his art. That’s certainly what he understood the spot was about. Yes he is poltical too, but again, he’s not responsible for the sad state of the left. He didn’t come across as a loony. He came across as a young man with not much public speaking experience who was struggling with an interviewer who as looking for some controversy. If anything he came across as politically naive, not his class politics, but the politics of politics and the media. No shame in that.

                   (you couldn’t help the pu reference, could you 😉

                   “Yeah, what a champion. Rebel without a brain springs to mind. Wonder what part of the message will get through to the masses?
                   But the Sex Pistols were on Nationwide 300 years ago doing the same. A bit unoriginal, but not unexpected from a rapper.”

                   I just don’t see that. It’s not like he’s going out there and promoting himself as some controversial band (from what I remember the song was released way before the election and it was Farrar that brought it up that week, had been saving it up no doubt).

                   Why should be have to be getting something through to the masses?
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 December 2014 at 6:05 pm

                     “Why should be have to be getting something through to the masses?”

                     Whether it was his intention or not, a message was sent. I doubt all those who heard it, or indeed those who didn’t but have since heard/read about the controversy see it like you do, especially the middle class media who frame the news for us.

                     Not heard much about the poor being stiffed. it’s all been about the murder, rape and state funding anti government stuff.
             • greywarshark …

               8 December 2014 at 4:09 pm

               @ the allen
               +1
         • Once Was Tim 6.2.1.2.2

           8 December 2014 at 3:56 pm

           “The scott bloke seems like an ignorant arsehole to me……”

           No not an ignorant arsehole, just youtful; inexperienced (tho’ with the self-belief of an over-inflated idea of his being ‘street-wise’); passionate in his views …… and all the rest of it.
           Just ‘arsehole’ would have done (without the ignorant).
           Hopefully he’ll grow out of it (as patronising as such statement may sound). If not – just imagine what a bigger cnut than Kim Hill (who isin’t) he’ll be when he reaches Kim’s age! I imagine there’ll be a swathe of damage far greater than someone like Kim has ever created.
           • The Al1en 6.2.1.2.2.1

             8 December 2014 at 4:04 pm

             Pig ignorant arsehole was in my first draft, but youthful; inexperienced (tho’ with the self-belief of an over-inflated idea of his being ‘street-wise’); passionate in his views …… and all the rest of it arsehole, works too.

             Gone to Aus you say. Not going to quote muldoon, but he wasn’t wrong on this one.
             • batweka …

               8 December 2014 at 5:29 pm

               what was he ignorant about exactly? How to play the game on middle class media?
               • The Al1en …

                 8 December 2014 at 5:57 pm

                 ignorant
                 ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)nt/

                 adjective – lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

                 informal – discourteous or rude.
                 • batweka …

                   8 December 2014 at 6:07 pm

                   ok, so you think he is ignorant across the board, nothing in particular in that interview.
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 December 2014 at 6:16 pm

                     His actions in the interview were all of the above.
                   • batweka …

                     8 December 2014 at 6:24 pm

                     weak.
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 December 2014 at 6:31 pm

                     Weak and ignorant then.

                     Not really going to get into it with you, given the subject matter, so answer if you want, knowing I’m not too bothered either way, but why defend such a clot with such vigour? Given his rape and murder ‘angles’, is he worthy of the effort?
                   • batweka …

                     8 December 2014 at 7:09 pm

                     have you read my other comments on OM today? I’ve made it pretty clear what I think about the murder bit, and the sexual objectification bit.

                     Maybe you know things about him that I don’t. I’ve just heard him interviewed a few times and listened to a few songs and read the lyrics of the kill the PM one. I don’t feel like I am defending him as a person, I don’t know the guy. I’m really just commenting on the song and what happened in the interview.

                     You may be right, he might be a complete arsehole. However if I wrote off every man who was unaware of his own misogyny and sexism…
                   • The Al1en …

                     8 December 2014 at 7:17 pm

                     Ta for the answer.

                     “You may be right, he might be a complete arsehole. However if I wrote off every man who was unaware of his own misogyny and sexism…”

                     I won’t say I usually am, but you should write away and post here. You may find it cathartic, or at least good for a rumble on a slow news day or when pu or pg are pulling their necks in.

                     Done to death now and happy to agree to differ. Said my bit, and I’m not trying to argue for a win.
                     I don’t think the bloke, like his song, is worthy of the bandwidth, so all good.
                   • batweka …

                     8 December 2014 at 8:06 pm

                     🙂

                     “I won’t say I usually am, but you should write away and post here. You may find it cathartic, or at least good for a rumble on a slow news day or when pu or pg are pulling their necks in.”

                     Have you forgotten the shit storm that went down here last Christmas over identity politics? 😉 Not sure I am up for that again this year, but then again I am in a fairly dark mood so who knows 😈
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     8 December 2014 at 11:14 pm

                     LOL let’s hope we’re not both bored out of our brains with holidays, on the same day at the same time surfing The Standard!!!
                   • McFlock …

                     8 December 2014 at 11:21 pm

                     I’ll jump in that hope-circle, too 🙂
                   • batweka …

                     8 December 2014 at 11:58 pm

                     Heh. We could always choose to talk about something constructive 🙂 Either that or drinking games.
                   • Colonial Rawshark …

                     9 December 2014 at 12:17 am

                     How about talking about something constructive WHILE playing drinking games. I reckon it could be a winner 😀
               • Once Was Tim …

                 8 December 2014 at 6:08 pm

                 ignorant/ˈɪɡn(ə)r(ə)nt/
                 adjective
                 1. lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
                 2. discourteous or rude.
                 3. easily angered.

                 It’s a shame I happen to agree with his opinions on Key. (I.e. he’s a c**t, a philistine, a used car salesman with the lingo to suit, a liar, a short term thinker, an ideologue, thinking that’s confused as intelligence rather than animal cunning [because there’s fuck all capacity for critical thought or adaptation based on available evidence], selfish, classist, holier-than-thou, ego-driven …… basically just another fuckwit with a following).

                 RE the above – I have no idea whether or not he’s educated or not, but certainly not sophisticated enough to know the vehicle he was given could have been a good opportunity to explain to a wider audience his views – he blew it.
                 Obviously lacking in awareness of the Natrad demographic

                 Whilst I was not offended by his comments (and I suspect nor Kim Hill), that ‘wider’ audience would have been comprised of people who were.

                 Easily angered. Kim described it more in terms of his being a little precious.

                 I sincerely hope it was just that he was having a bad hair day.

                 Cutting noses off to spite a face much?
                 • batweka …

                   8 December 2014 at 6:23 pm

                   I was under the impression they misled him on what the interview would be about. He sounded to me like he was caught off guard by that. And then Hill just kept on poking at it. I’ve seen her be nice to people before who are unsure of themselves so hard to understand what she was thinking this time.
                   • Once Was Tim …

                     8 December 2014 at 6:32 pm

                     Yea well …. maybe she was having a bad hair day too. Let’s just cut them BOTH some slack. It’s probably an encounter they’d both like to reset. I hope that’s the case because they’re both people I hope are around for quite a while.
                   • batweka …

                     8 December 2014 at 7:10 pm

                     🙂
   • Colonial Rawshark 6.3

     8 December 2014 at 1:45 pm

     I think the trivialising of sex offenders by the PM is more damaging.
   • batweka 6.4

     8 December 2014 at 1:59 pm

     which remarks are you referring to? Just so we can guess what you are on about.
   • Murray Rawshark 6.5

     8 December 2014 at 8:17 pm

     What was your contribution to the public condemnation, music boy?
7. Chooky 7

   8 December 2014 at 10:20 am

   the right wing Wellington supercity proposals are in for bumpy ride…Auckland Supercity should be an object lesson on the way NOT to go

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20160189/wellington-supercity-plans-in-for-a-bumpy-ride
   • tc 7.1

     8 December 2014 at 10:29 am

     bumpy with a likelihood of urgency to slam them through, ecan/supershity any consultation will be a sham show with the end game being polished now.

     Wondered where Mckay had sinecured off to after his near $1m/p.a. package as akl CEO doing SFA.

     He will be ensuring they don’t get caught out like they did in akl and have a much smoother transition to the asset stripping phase.
8. Morrissey 8

   8 December 2014 at 10:58 am

   Seven reasons why Santa Claus may be Prince Harry

   1. He flies a long way to deliver things to children….
   http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/its-fine-for-prince-harry-to-kill-people-and-brag-about-it
   https://sg.news.yahoo.com/top-gun-prince-harry-set-afghanistan-return-115413181.html

   2. He only works once a year….
   http://www.royal-fans.com/cressida-bonas-marriage-prince-awful/#

   3. He’s never actually been seen doing any work in his whole life….
   http://inanutshellca.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/prince-harry-naked.jpg

   4. He drinks alcohol during working hours….
   http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/05/prince-harry-s-big-boozy-week.html
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861114/Good-night-Harry-Prince-looks-little-worse-wear-escorted-private-club-Raffles-3am.html

   5. He barely leaves his home for fear of being recognised….
   http://www.people.com/people/gallery/0,,725780_757837,00.html

   6. He can get hold of all the latest designer gear but never pays a penny for it!…..
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2347677/Prince-Harry-Cressida-Bonas-dress-return-home-train.html

   7. He gets letters from lot of people, all demanding that he owes them things!….
   http://www.metro.us/entertainment/morrissey-pens-an-angry-open-letter-to-prince-william-and-prince-harry/tmWnbi—9a4uVwgwrgEUk/
   http://louderthanwar.com/an-open-letter-to-prince-harry-about-shooting-defenceless-animals/

   This list was compiled by Useless Parasites Watch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
   • travellerev 8.1

     8 December 2014 at 1:21 pm

     Like!
9. aerobubble 9

   8 December 2014 at 2:04 pm

   Do the rioters have the vote? I was wondering why Black men have such a bad attitude to Police asking them to come along. Given that this maybe the reason why a NY mans’ death was not case for a homicide charge. Though personally Police could see he had health problems, being obese, and also would have trouble getting up if on the ground, and so charges should have been laid. Its understandable that citizens denied the vote, a say in policing, would be more likely to show attitude to Police and also have less to lose when rioting. Its because of the racism in Congress that removed the right to vote tjat creates a underclass of disenfrachised and aggrieved individuals. President Obama should give citizens the right to vote back to every free person.
   • Murray Rawshark 9.1

     8 December 2014 at 8:36 pm

     WTF? I can’t work out what you’re trying to say here, which may well be a good thing. Garner was killed with an illegal choke hold. What the hell does that have to do with his attitude? It’s the racist bloody cops who need to sort out their attitude, not the victims of their violence.
     • aerobubble 9.1.1

       12 December 2014 at 4:38 pm

       Police must use reasonable force.
       Citizens using a chock hold leading to death would lead to a trial.
       However Police habe a responsibility to good order, and we need them to be able to uphold good order.
       The merits of any case are then considered.
       Many US citizens are denied the vote and a say, worse if as a black man they could not vote for the first black president…
       But its in the intetests of good order that we as citizens help Police keep good order.
       Now obviously a obese man who has trouble getting up off the ground would have a hard time obey the Police, and has a choice, allow Police to handcuf him, or resist.
       Fed up Police, who have a right to a safe workplace and physically dealing with members of the public with attitude, not their doing, are going to want to limit their own harm.
       So a grand jury is asked, do you want Police to be able to able to provide good order and also come home phyically unharmed.
       Given citizens have moments of illjudgement, and Police officers are citizens, who when placed in such circumstance where they not realize their strength when used against a very unhealthy person…

       The public order kept the grand jury from charging.
       Yet the public order also needs us to know Police can recognize unhealthy people and use reasonable force. The chokehold officer should not be in law enforcement.

       People who peacefully protest, who obey lawful commands of officers, are to be honored, attitude however means Police are more aggressive, trained by daily dealing with aggressive people, tt innocent people die at their hands. Like training sharks to investigate and associate food and drivers. bad. select your env.
10. Colonial Rawshark 10

    8 December 2014 at 2:05 pm

    White House spokesperson Jen Psaki admits on a hot mic that her own spin that she was given to recite on Mubarak/Morsi is “ridiculous.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-07/caught-tape-state-department-spokesperson-admits-her-own-propaganda-ridiculous
    • ianmac 10.1

      8 December 2014 at 4:53 pm

      Yes ridiculous CR. Mr Key would have said in response to the same question, “We believe in true democracy and the right of everyone to free expression and the rule of law, blah blah blah.”
      However what they do is quite different.
11. Puckish Rogue 11

    8 December 2014 at 3:47 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/63926617/Crossed-wires-lead-to-solo-climate-protests

    Using a plastic bag was a good idea but surely they could have used a bag made from a different material 🙂
12. tc 12

    8 December 2014 at 5:04 pm

    From the national herald “Mr Key said the traffic delays, which left some people stuck in congestion for four hours, were “a bit of a freak accident”.

    Relax jaffa’s, PM and traffic expert Johhny K’s got it sussed.

    A tunnell bypassing the CBD from before onewa rd across to the stanley St motorway junction should’ve been done decades ago.
13. Tautoko Mangō Mata 13

    8 December 2014 at 6:22 pm

    John Pilger “Why has so much journalism succumbed to propaganda? Watch my address to the @cijournalism Logan Symposium yesterday”
    bit.ly/1vyIGDf

    or scroll down on https://twitter.com/youranonnews till you get to link.
    • Colonial Rawshark 13.1

      8 December 2014 at 7:00 pm

      Thank you muchly for this.
    • Paul 13.2

      8 December 2014 at 7:15 pm

      Brilliant article. Is there a video of a talk attached to this?

      Highlights.

      ‘In other words, had journalists done their job, had they questioned and investigated the propaganda instead of amplifying it, hundreds of thousands of men, women and children might be alive today; and millions might not have fled their homes; the sectarian war between Sunni and Shia might not have ignited, and the infamous Islamic State might not now exist.’

      ‘Even now, despite the millions who took to the streets in protest, most of the public in western countries have little idea of the sheer scale of the crime committed by our governments in Iraq. Even fewer are aware that, in the 12 years before the invasion, the US and British governments set in motion a holocaust by denying the civilian population of Iraq a means to live.’

      ‘The suppression of the truth about Ukraine is one of the most complete news blackouts I can remember. The biggest Western military build-up in the Caucasus and eastern Europe since world war two is blacked out. Washington’s secret aid to Kiev and its neo-Nazi brigades responsible for war crimes against the population of eastern Ukraine is blacked out. Evidence that contradicts propaganda that Russia was responsible for the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner is blacked out.’

      “”If you wonder,” wrote Robert Parry, “how the world could stumble into world war three – much as it did into world war one a century ago – all you need to do is look at the madness that has enveloped virtually the entire US political/media structure over Ukraine where a false narrative of white hats versus black hats took hold early and has proved impervious to facts or reason.”‘

      ‘In 2009, the University of the West of England published the results of a ten-year study of the BBC’s coverage of Venezuela. Of 304 broadcast reports, only three mentioned any of the positive policies introduced by the government of Hugo Chavez. The greatest literacy programme in human history received barely a passing reference.’

      ‘”When the truth is replaced by silence,” said the Soviet dissident Yevtushenko, “the silence is a lie.”

      It’s this kind of silence we journalists need to break. We need to look in the mirror. We need to call to account an unaccountable media that services power and a psychosis that threatens world war.’

      Here’s a direct link.

      http://johnpilger.com/articles/war-by-media-and-the-triumph-of-propaganda
      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 13.2.1

        8 December 2014 at 7:29 pm

        Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY8JqKlzDzo
      • Philip Ferguson 13.2.2

        8 December 2014 at 8:07 pm

        There’s a very good open letter from an Otago University professor in relation to NZ journalists uncritically accepting a lot of government propaganda in relation to ‘terrorism’ and the ‘war on terror’ as well:
        https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/otago-professor-challenges-mainstream-media-on-terrorism-threat-minimal-standards-of-journalism/

        Phil
        • Chooky 13.2.2.1

          8 December 2014 at 8:19 pm

          Philip Ferguson.+100…. thanks ..re Professor Jackson’s challenge to the NZ media to confront the issues on deployment of NZ forces to Iraq and the new ‘anti-terrorism’ legislation.

          imo…it would be good to see that as a main POST here …maybe summarised
          • Paul 13.2.2.1.1

            8 December 2014 at 8:35 pm

            Yes we should be placing more emphasis on how corrupt the media is and how it is a gatekeeper for the powerful nowadays.
            I like the way Russell Brand does this in his programme the Trews.
14. Colonial Rawshark 14

    8 December 2014 at 6:44 pm

    US food stamp recipients sitting on all time high

    US stocks and hedge funds may be pushing ever higher due to central bank money printing, but for the 99% this isn’t really a “recovery” of any kind, is it.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-07/there-has-never-been-greater-portion-america-living-food-stamps
15. Philip Ferguson 15

    8 December 2014 at 8:02 pm

    These days members of the “gay community” – the respectable people who have long since replaced the radical gay *liberation* movement – can be found falling over themselves to kiss John Key at the Big Gay Out and to have photo ops with him there too.

    But there was a time when there was a movement for liberation; it was militant, it was anti-capitalist and it was pro-working class and connected to working class struggle.

    It’s interesting how the interconnection between homosexual liberation and the left, especially the far left and chunks of the working class, has been erased from consciousness. These days you’ll find right-wing pro-market gays and lesbians who want no truck with the left and act as if there has never been any connection between the left and gay rights, and that their own social and legal freedoms have nothing to do with an anti-capitalist gay movement, let alone the Marxist left and the working class.

    One of the great things about the movie ‘Pride’ is that it portrays these connections. In this case the connections built up between gay activists and south Wales coal miners during the great miners’ strike of 1984-85.

    See: http://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/four-things-we-can-learn-from-pride/

    Phil
    • mickysavage 15.1

      8 December 2014 at 8:22 pm

      Thanks Philip. Your comment is very perceptive. I can recall well the 1980s when Fran Wilde proposed the decriminalisation of homosexuality and the attacks that the right focussed on her and on her bill. A few decades later and it seems that the right has given up the “moral” arguments as long as they can maintain a “free” market. Worthy of a guest post.
      • Paul 15.1.1

        8 December 2014 at 8:42 pm

        The right see such social issues as a way of allowing public disaffection the opportunity to vent a bit.

        Pilger talked about it in his amazing speech ( see above @13.2.1 and 13.2)
        http://johnpilger.com/articles/war-by-media-and-the-triumph-of-propaganda

        ‘Within a few years, driven by the forces of profit, the cult of “me-ism” had all but overwhelmed our sense of acting together, our sense of social justice and internationalism. Class, gender and race were separated. The personal was the political, and the media was the message.’
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    8 December 2014 at 10:32 pm

    This is why we need regulations:

    The warning from the British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA) comes after it was revealed in a report out on Monday that a drone almost collided with a passenger plane near Heathrow airport during the summer.

    The general secretary of BALPA, Jim McAuslan, says it would be very easy for a near-miss to become a disaster.

    And the regulation that needs to be in place is:

    No product or service may enter the market until such time as it has been properly regulated.

    The damage that’s been caused by ‘legal highs’, the finance industry and the potential damage of amateurishly flown drones show that this is necessary.
17. Draco T Bastard 17

    9 December 2014 at 12:05 am

    One bloody big fire

    Massive fire in downtown LA

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