Open mike 09/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, November 9th, 2013 - 111 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…

111 comments on “Open mike 09/11/2013 ”

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  1. jcuknz 1
    9 November 2013 at 7:51 am

    A comment from an American

    “The best thing that could happen is an increase in the minimum wage. Minimum wage earners spend every dime they get. Putting more money into the hands of the poor is money that will be spent immediately.

    Can’t say the same about tax cuts, which disproportionately go the rich who simply hoard the money.”

    • Tat Loo (CV) 1.1
      9 November 2013 at 10:00 am

      Yep. Hoard the money or pile them into financial markets to inflate speculative asset bubbles.

  2. Saarbo 2
    9 November 2013 at 7:51 am

    Well credit where credits due. Ive been one to highlight Fran O Sullivan’s hopeless and thoughtless blind devotion to free market philosophies over the years. But she has nailed it in todays NZ Herald.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11153956

    And I particularly like this bit, hopefully this will be the last time we hear the phrase “man ban”, because I think we now know where that phrase was coming from.

    “It is to Labour’s credit that the party is trying to even the score when it comes to evening up gender representation in Parliament.

    The party has faced down criticism from the usual media jocks who label such policies a “man ban”.”

    I hope Farrar and Gower now realise they are part of the club of dinosaurs when they continue to criticise Labour over its remit to have AT LEAST 50% women, I suggest after this debacle it should be AT LEAST 75%.

    • karol 2.1
      9 November 2013 at 8:14 am

      Well there’s some good n FO’S’s piece. And yes there are some misogynist elements within Labour. But she fails to mention how the right used those nasty smears about Clark as a deliberate ploy to undermine Clark as PM. I have heard the content of the smears originally came from within the left. But it was the right that crafted them into one of the nastiest, most underhand smear campaign’s in NZ’s political history.

      FOS makes out the misogyny is all Labour’s. Sheesh – and WO, KB?

      And Key’s government has hardly been a friend to the majority of women.

        • Aspasia 2.1.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 9:21 am

          Did I hear Moira Coatsworth reported on radio yesterday pointing out that there were processes in the Labour Party in terms of membership for the likes of Tamihere?
          Am I correct in thinking that (like the police?) she needs a formal complaint? If so, can anyone enlighten me about how to do this?

          • Tat Loo (CV) 2.1.1.1.1
            9 November 2013 at 10:09 am

            Any Labour Party member, but ideally a constitutional branch or LEC, can write a formal complaint about the conduct of a member to the Labour Party’s New Zealand Council, usually via their Labour Region’s representative on that Council.

            • gobsmacked 2.1.1.1.1.1
              9 November 2013 at 11:32 am

              Please, please do this.

              I am not a Labour member so I realize I’m asking somebody else to do the work, but I really hope that the party receives complaints by the dozen about Tamihere’s behaviour.

              It’s important to remember that media attention spans are short, and people who are “persona non grata” soon return. (case in point: Paul Henry).

              Tamihere’s media status will be rehabilitated to “lovable rogue” in a matter of weeks/months. Even now, fools like Josie Pagani are defending him.

              He must NEVER be a Labour candidate. It is that simple.

              • QoT …
                9 November 2013 at 2:52 pm

                I understand at least one Labour Party member has already done so, but I’m sure that additional messages wouldn’t hurt.

      • Tigger 2.1.2
        9 November 2013 at 8:28 am

        Agreed, K. She glosses over the worst misogyny Clark faced, that of the right. I have a complete wtf reaction to that piece. It’s so calculated that its worthy message is fatally undercut.

      • Saarbo 2.1.3
        9 November 2013 at 8:53 am

        True.

        The phrase “man ban” had its origins in the same misogynistic/patriarchal attitude that we see from Jackson and Tamihere. I understand that Farrar created it. Gower highlights it at every opportunity. I hope out of this whole episode we end up with a public who gain a better understanding of where these phrases are coming from and consequently Labour (Moira Coatsworth in particular) get some support for sticking to their guns on this.

      • Anne 2.1.4
        9 November 2013 at 3:11 pm

        I have heard the content of the smears originally came from within the left.

        Not strictly correct. It came from the neoliberal faction back in the late 70s and early 80s at a time when their ‘star’ was on the rise. They ruled the Labour roost for about seven years and then they were gone. They joined ACT in the early 90s.

    • Chooky 2.2
      9 November 2013 at 8:42 am

      Saarbo +1 ..interesting and well put from Fran O’Sullivan

  3. cricklewood 3
    9 November 2013 at 7:59 am

    Of this whole ‘roast buster’ saga. The news media a making me increasingly angry with the headlines. Specifically radio where every bullitin I would hear something along the lines of ‘supply young girls with alcohol and have group sex’ the reality is they targeted girls stupefied them the PACK RAPED them.
    The media sugar coating it as they are I believe is symptomatic of the whole problem. The two dickheads at radio live been at the top of the pile.

    • uke 3.1
      9 November 2013 at 8:51 am

      Totally agree. I couldn’t believe yesterday’s ‘Dominion post’ headline: ‘Police roasted over sex saga’.

      The phrase ‘sex saga’ is for discussing some All Black or movie star having an affair. This is a rape case.

      In other words, the ‘Dominion post’ contributes to the rape culture discourse.

      • idlegus 3.1.1
        9 November 2013 at 12:53 pm

        some of the international headlines use the ‘pack rape’ title, they dont hold back at all! like i guess our media wouldnt if it concerned australia or something.

        • Rogue Trooper 3.1.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 1:04 pm

          This matter is certainly not a good look internationally; still, more representative when you get down to it than 100% pure. Just been reading how Fonterra chiefs are revealing how the company is 6-10 years behind the sustainability achieved by dairying in Europe, and that further expansion / intensification here is going to hit a wall of environmental constraints.
          These are the serious facts of the matter for the nation!

  4. Tracey 4
    9 November 2013 at 8:22 am

    Many people are angry over this rb thing.

    a constructive way to use your anger is go to your mp office and demand increases in funding immediately for rape crisis for programmes in schools. Ask for asset sales to stop and tge millions in costs to sell going to these programmes.

    email pm.. mps.

    anyone noticed how silent tje social development minister is on this tip of a serios social development iceberg?.

  5. Tracey 5
    9 November 2013 at 8:26 am

    If people are truly angry go to yoyr mps office and demand funding increases to rape crisis and school programmes etc.

    Tell your mps to stop assets sales and use the saved cost of the sales to increase this funding.

    stop listening, reading buying anything which supports lack of respect to men and women.

    this is all much harder than being angry. Are we up to it?

    Anyone noticed how silent the minister of social development has been on this most horrendous tip of a very enormous social development iceberg?

  6. phillip ure 6
    9 November 2013 at 8:38 am

    the more-healthy-message is one of the strongest in the pot v.s. booze debate-arsenal..

    ..and pot is winning..

    “..Booze lobbyists are becoming more and more pissed off at marijuana advocates..”

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/bar-fight-booze-industry-furious-over-campaigns-saying-weed-safer-alcohol

    phillip ure..

  7. Chooky 7
    9 November 2013 at 9:15 am

    Writer for young people, Mandy Hager brilliant on National Radio this morning talking about “seething world of misogyny”……. in the most civilised and charming way…. but not pulling any punches

    ….well worth listening to on: John Tamihere , Willy Jackon interview with young girl about rape ( something I have been arguing about with my son who listens to Radio Live )

    …..Hager has written a book for young people on date rape called ‘Smashed’ and recommends a doco on sexism in music videos called ‘Dream Worlds’

    Kathleen Ryan has also been superb this last week on these issues ….comprehensive examinations of the recent Auckland gang rapes, drawing in experts from different perspectives and the most moving personal testimonies by rape victims of the situations they innocently found themselves in and the long term damage rape did to them

    Radio NZ really is to be very highly commended…for the calibre of women it puts on in its programmes and the quality of debates !

  8. Morrissey 8
    9 November 2013 at 9:15 am

    Noelle McCarthy stops the snickering
    Pretends to be serious about victims of state repression

    Saturday Morning, Radio NZ National, 9 November 2013
    Kim Hill is still away, so the host for this week is NOELLE McCARTHY.

    This morning’s first interview was with American journalist Kevin Gosztola, who spoke about the sinister, threatening, steadily growing surveillance regimes in the United States and Britain. Naturally, he talked a lot about Edward Snowden. Amongst other things, Kevin Gosztola observed that Snowden was isolated and called a traitor by the U.S. regime and its snooping agencies, and that the heads of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ had repeated the slander during their farcical appearance before the British parliament’s Intelligence and Security committee this week….
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/11/british_surveillance_hearing_parliament_s_interrogation_of_u_k_spy_agencies.html

    As he pointed out the plight of the dissident NSA whistleblower, I wondered whether Kevin Gosztola realized that his interviewer was one of those who has enthusiastically participated in the Government-sponsored shunning and ridiculing and libeling of Edward Snowden. I wonder if he would have even spoken to McCarthy if he had realized how callous and flippant she has been towards Snowden and other dissidents. Here’s a representative sample of her comments on Snowden’s plight up until this morning’s miraculous transformation into a concerned and humane liberal thinker….

    NOELLE McCARTHY, 10 July 2013: Y-y-y-y-yeeeeeessss, …. [snort] ….he he he! He’s still in hiding. He he he! …. He he he he he! Yes he is still in that terminal! …[snort]… He he he he he he! ….[snort]…. He’s got a choice! Venezuela, Bolivia or Ecuador! …. Bolivia would be hard with the altitude! ….
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10072013/#comment-661123

    Less than one week later, she was at it again….

    NOELLE McCARTHY, 16 July 2013: [grimly] Heh, heh, heh. Well someone else with not such a good view is Edward Snowden. [snicker] Looks like he’s STILL in the airport! …
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16072013/#comment-663663

    And here she is enthusiastically taking part in another group guffaw, this time about another Government-designated political target, Julian Assange….
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19072013/#comment-664870

    Kevin Gosztola’s website….
    http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/

  9. Zorr 9
    9 November 2013 at 9:18 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9380684/John-Key-living-the-dream

    I can’t even stomach this piece, I’ve read snippets of it but the whole thing is just… so painful

    John Key – still getting blowjobs from the media

    • richard 9.1
      9 November 2013 at 10:29 am

      Looks like the Nat’s publicity machine has hit high gear. More vomit inducing stuff:
      Key credits team for National’s success

    • phillip ure 9.2
      9 November 2013 at 10:30 am

      @ zorr..

      ..it is a ‘dear-leader’ masterpiece..

      (flies were buzzing in and out of my hanging-open mouth..as i skim-read it..

      ..pausing only to utter the odd “whoar!..holy wholesale-sychophancy..!..batman..!’)

      phillip ure

    • chris73 9.3
      9 November 2013 at 10:33 am

      and thats how its done if you want to be re-elected

    • millsy 9.4
      9 November 2013 at 10:39 am

      Rod Drury needs to realise that National is not the party to be building “exciting new assets” — well not any more anyway. National has, since 1990 has been the party of tearing things down.

    • Tigger 9.5
      9 November 2013 at 11:35 am

      Jebus, that piece is so cloying it have me diabetes. On another site it would be considered satire.

      • chris73 9.5.1
        9 November 2013 at 11:48 am

        I think that piece was well written and shows the caliber of the man leading NZ 🙂 of course when the puff pieces come in for Labour I’m guessing it’ll be a different story

        • gobsmacked 9.5.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 12:07 pm

          Yes, it was a different story.

          The fiction is that “5 years” is some special anniversary that requires full-on puffery across all the media. So … after 5 years of Clark, where was it?

          Go on, show us the saturation ass-kissing from 2004.

          I don’t know if you really believe this “all the same” line you keep trotting out, or if it’s just feeble spin, but it isn’t true, and never was. Find evidence to the contrary, please.

          • chris73 9.5.1.1.1
            9 November 2013 at 12:10 pm

            You mean like Cunliffe lounging on the beach or Jacinda Ardern showing off her cup cakes?

            • gobsmacked 9.5.1.1.1.1
              9 November 2013 at 12:13 pm

              No, I mean exactly what I said. Lengthy, uncritcial puff pieces, celebrating 5 years. You got nothing? Case closed.

              • chris73 …
                9 November 2013 at 12:27 pm

                Nice attempt from diversion from the main point 🙂 its something the left is quite good at doing 🙂

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  9 November 2013 at 2:12 pm

                  Dude, the whole puff piece is a diversion from what’s actually happening. Something the right and their little helpers in the MSM are very good at.

                  • dv …
                    9 November 2013 at 2:45 pm

                    At the end of the Stuff piece there are these figures

                    Debt:
                    2008 $10.3b
                    The 2008 forecast for 2013: $29b
                    Actual 2013: $55b

                    The Budget:
                    2008: $5.6b surplus.
                    Forecast 2013: deficit $3.3b
                    Actual 2013: deficit $4.4b

                    Current account deficit:
                    2018: 7.8 per cent
                    Forecast 2013: -5 per cent
                    Actual 2013: – 4.7 per cent

                    Economic growth:
                    2008: -0.6 per cent
                    Forecast 2013: 3.1 per cent
                    Actual: 2013: 2.5

                    Unemployment:
                    2008: 4.3 per cent
                    Forecast 2013: 4.6 per cent
                    Actual 2013: 6.2 per cent

                    Economic rebalancing:
                    The gap between income from the tradeable sector and the non-tradables sector has widened since 2008.

                    Hardly a ringing endorsment

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      9 November 2013 at 3:06 pm

                      Nope, not all from the better economic managers party.

                    • greywarbler …
                      9 November 2013 at 10:11 pm

                      Current account deficit:
                      2018: 7.8 per cent
                      Forecast 2013: -5 per cent
                      Actual 2013: – 4.7 per cent

                      Was this meant to be 2008: 7.8%.
                      And does actual 2013: -4.7% If this is a minus figure for a deficit measurement does that mean that there is a surplus?

                    • Tat Loo (CV) …
                      9 November 2013 at 10:22 pm

                      -4.7% (of GDP) is the deficit

                      If it was positive +4.7% it they would be calling it the current account surplus.

                      I want to know how the frak Treasury reckons we are going to have that big a current account surplus in 2017. Impossible on our current track.

                      Or maybe they are expecting a Labour Government…

    • emergency mike 9.6
      9 November 2013 at 5:11 pm

      “Life after politics will probably involve some commercial work, a board chairmanship or two and even some “ex-prime ministerial things”, said Key.”

      Oh yes, he a real do-gooder this one. Glad we could provide you with this sweet stepping stone job.

    • David H 9.7
      9 November 2013 at 6:25 pm

      Bugger the article. Read the comments, they are way more informative, oh, and remember, they have only let thru the mildest ones.

  10. greywarbler 10
    9 November 2013 at 9:31 am

    This morning on radio nz on Kim Hill’s session with Noelle McCarthy today, Mandy Hager was interesting. She is very informed about teenage sexuality and is distressed about the gang rape in Auckland with informative background. She has written a book called Smashed which I think she says is about teenage culture.

    She is involved with something called Dare Foundation and talks about schools, society’s failure to impart ethical values and I think the Foundation is running a project to talk about this. She mentions a culture of meanness being presented on the visual media to teenagers, Miley Cyrus having a persona built by men, ‘reality’ tv with ostracism and abandonment to picked members who are voted out, etc. No kindness no caring group involvement in those.
    The Dare Foundation, which I have been part of, also offer excellent programmes that would address some of this behaviour – including a ground-breaking new ‘ethical bystander’ programme to empower young people to support each other.
    http://robin.hosts.net.nz/~admin219/mandy-hager-writes-2/

    Radionz Notes and later audio will be on – 8:30 Mandy Hager
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday
    Mandy Hager has written eight novels, including award-winning young-adult books Smashed, The Crossing, and The Nature of Ash, as well as short stories, scripts, and non-fiction resources for young people. Her latest novel, Dear Vincent was published earlier this year (Random House, ISBN: 978-1-77553-3276).
    Currently a tutor in novel writing at Whitireia NZ, Hager is the 2013 winner of the Menton Fellowship, one of New Zealand’s oldest and most esteemed literary awards. While resident in France, she plans to work on a book about the life of nun, scholar and writer Héloïse d’Argenteuil.

    It is interesting that Mandy’s family originally came from Vienna, I think they were Jewish getting away from Europe to a safer place. So much of our creativity and drive seems to have come after such people came here, to Levin actually. Compare with NZs general background of colonials, which seems to have been farm sourced, or rather stultified aspiring middle class with mercantile aspirations, adopting customs of artistic pretension that middle class people followed rather than it arising from an individual intellectual striving for creativity and expression.
    Just a musing on my part.

    • phillip ure 10.1
      9 November 2013 at 10:33 am

      @ greywarbler..at times the discussions on ‘the panel’ are so dinosaur-like..

      ..as to make tamihere/jackson seem enlightened/’modern-men’….

      ..phillip ure

      • greywarbler 10.1.1
        9 November 2013 at 12:21 pm

        phillipu
        What panel? Are you talking about Mora’s? I’m talking about an interview which I describe – definitely not like dinosaur stuff or JT and WJ.

    • ianmac 10.2
      9 November 2013 at 10:41 am

      Interesting that Mandy Hager should be such a brilliant writer and her brother Nicky Hager should also be so prominent as a journalist/activist. Their Mum and Dad were pretty impressive also, and Mandy’s younger sister is also talented. In Levin they lived a life dedicated to conservation and human welfare. And as Mandy says they stood out as “different” in Levin, but I think in the nicest possible way.

      • Morrissey 10.2.1
        9 November 2013 at 11:11 am

        One day on The Panel, Dr Michael Bassett snarled that Nicky Hager was a Holocaust-denier. Host Jim Mora did nothing, and said nothing. Nor did the other Panelists, including the producer who was also present in the studio. Nothing happened to Bassett after that; in fact he returned to the programme several times.

        This kind of thing, which happens frequently, somewhat undermines Chooky’s praise (on the thread above) for the quality of National Radio’s discussions.

    • Chooky 10.3
      9 November 2013 at 12:31 pm

      @ greywarbler ….re your criticisms ….”Compare with NZs general background of colonials, which seems to have been farm sourced, or rather stultified aspiring middle class with mercantile aspirations, adopting customs of artistic pretension that middle class people followed rather than it arising from an individual intellectual striving for creativity and expression.
      Just a musing on my part.”

      note ….Nicky and Mandy Hager’s Mother is a NZer …she did not come from Vienna like his Grandfather …….as far as I know and she may have come off a farm….the Grandfather from Vienna and Father had a clothing factory in Levin I think.

      • ianmac 10.3.1
        9 November 2013 at 2:47 pm

        Mrs Hager was the daughter of doctor and was born in S Africa (or Rhodesia?) but lived most of her life in NZ.

      • greywarbler 10.3.2
        9 November 2013 at 9:57 pm

        It is interesting that Mandy’s family originally came from Vienna, . If the grandfather came from Vienna, then my statement is correct. I’m talking about originally which can be a while in the past, and not all the original family need to have come from Vienna. I would like to be able to say something on this post without it being picked apart and critiqued. It would be good to be allowed to put an opinion up that isn’t blatantly RW without the gatekeeper mentality censoring it.

        • miravox 10.3.2.1
          9 November 2013 at 11:43 pm

          Although I’ve been known to *occasionally* extol the virtues of Vienna, I can’t agree with you on this gw. Is it possible they are the kind of people they are because their forebears came to NZ rather than despite them coming to NZ? A love of books, reading and writing can be nurtured anywhere that has a set of societal and economic conditions that encourages it. In that, NZ has done quite well.

          Whether that is endangered is something being argued now with changes in teaching, access to books, and changes in societal values – probably the most important of which, are indifference, judgementalism and buying into bigotry, imo.

          As for NZ writers from farming and middle class stock – have you forgotten the cleverness of, say, John Mulgan, Jock Phillips and Michael King who wrote about the NZ male pysche while being part of it. Also remember, off the top of my head Katherine Mansfield, Witi Ihimaera, J.K. Baxter, Keri Hulme, Emily Perkins (who wrote one of the best short-ish novels I’ve ever read.. ‘A novel about my wife’. Even the Brits appreciate her, given a column in The Guardian while she was off on the OE), and the latest in a long line… Eleanor Catton

        • Chooky 10.3.2.2
          9 November 2013 at 11:50 pm

          @greywarbler …the critique was of your statement: “Compare with NZs general background of colonials, which seems to have been farm sourced, or rather stultified aspiring middle class with mercantile aspirations, adopting customs of artistic pretension that middle class people followed rather than it arising from an individual intellectual striving for creativity and expression.
          Just a musing on my part.”

          It is a bullshit statement …. as any NZ art historian or English literature historian and many school children could tell you…..there have been lots of NZ colonials who have been highly creative and successful internationally( not just pretentious pretenders as you suggest) …and many have come from the “aspiring middle class with mercantile aspirations” eg Katherine Mansfield (1888-1923) whose father was a banker is just a start
          …there are other NZers too numerous to mention…but just off the top of my head,what about Keri Hume ( winner of the Booker Prize) ?…Elsie Locke ( children’s writer,historian, environmentalist,peace activist, feminist ,organiser of family planning and fighter for social justice for Maori and the working class) who wrote many books? …Ngaio Marsh, theatre director and crime writer of international repute?…what about the painters: Francis Hodgkins (1869-1947)….Margaret Stoddart(1865-1934)…..Rita Angus?..and many many Maori writers of calibre eg….Patricia Grace?…

          I have only touched on a few women here …what about Ernest Rutherford, father of nuclear physics?….the list of highly creative intellectual NZers could go on and on…

          • Not Another Sheep 10.3.2.2.1
            10 November 2013 at 12:32 am

            “@greywarbler …the critique was of your statement: “Compare with NZs general background of colonials, which seems to have been farm sourced, or rather stultified aspiring middle class with mercantile aspirations, adopting customs of artistic pretension that middle class people followed rather than it arising from an individual intellectual striving for creativity and expression.
            Just a musing on my part.” ”

            Well put Chooky, a bullshit statement albeit just a musing on the gerygone’s part.

            Speak for your own colonial ancestry if you will…GW.

            For the criteria”- arising from an individual intellectual striving for creativity and expression.”
            How about adding one of my direct grandfathers on one colonial branch – Carl Hinrich Andreas Mumme. Co founder of the The Freedom Group formed on 9 July 1913 .The Freedom Group’s struggle for social change—for a society based on people before profit was the driver. They were tired of oppression and sheeples accepting tyranny. “They were active in their trade unions, on the street corners, and in their communities.” What set them apart was “their critique of coercive relations, wage slavery, and a vision of a more equitable and humane world.” He went on to accrue mobs to organise and arm themselves and fight back during the Great Strike! Great expressionism don’t you think?

            And for Creativity on another branch was a Professor/ doctor of medicine who robbed graves for corpses so his students could have cadavers to learn with and advance medicine. That’s pretty creative eh?

            “Sewing Freedom: Philip Josephs, Transnationalism & Early New Zealand Anarchism”

            • Chooky 10.3.2.2.1.1
              10 November 2013 at 8:59 am

              @ Not Another Sheep…lol….sounds like a very fine and worthy NZ ancestry of creative and intellectual thinking and integrity! …most impressed!

              ..one of my ancestors was a humble whaler ( from Yorkshire I think) and the first Pakeha in the Christchurch area to give descriptions ….he wrote accounts of a horse and rider disappearing in the Avon river….he was an interpreter between Maori and British….his two reading books were the Bible and ‘Herodotus Histories’ ( which he educated his children with)…he married Puia the daughter of Chief Iwikau ( Akaroa, who signed the Treaty )…and when the French turned up he hurriedly hoisted up the Union Jack flag to let the French know the British had got there before them….lol……..his son became a local identity on the Chathams

              Maori Prophecy on Christchurch :

              Some three hundred years ago Maoris of vision prophesised thus:—”Behind the tattooed face, a stranger lurks, his face is white, he owns the land,” and “Weep not for me, weep for yourselves, for the time will come when white feet shall desecrate my grave.” True they have proved, in both cases. The Maoris dwelling amid the swamps of Christchurch were nicknamed by the natives of other parts O-roto-repo (swamp dwellers).

              http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-TayLore-t1-body1-d5.html

              I wonder if the Maori tohunga also foresaw the big earthquake?

            • greywarbler 10.3.2.2.1.2
              10 November 2013 at 2:36 pm

              This is what I mean by critical response. You can’t just reply with what about .. and haven’t you overstated this because … you have to demolish and sling off because it’s a different idea from your own favourite position.

              Where is the opportunity for discussion? It’s ‘You want the truth, you couldn’t handle the truth’ time, as in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. And what is being broached may not be the truth, or part truth. But because you don’t see my point then it must be wrong, because you are right.

              As if I never read, and don’t know of NZ creatives. There still is a knuckle dragging approach from many but I try not to be one such. And readers, who are they who look for truth and ideas? Women make up the bulk of readers. Men low on that activity, high on sport, mountain biking over every track in NZ – look out they’ll want a track down your hall soon – and driving 4WD up river beds as in the Mitsubishi advertisement etc. With a spot of shooting, that’s quite widespread as an activity in town and country (sometimes people – collateral damage). Less of that stuff, and more creativity of the mind is much needed in this country.

              Thought, discussion, reading and thinking and philosophy should be something that all are familiar with and participate in. Not just the few, and not mainly women. And I don’t think there has been enough of it in NZ in the past, and less now with the commercial response to everything. Now there’s a thought for discussion.

            • greywarbler 10.3.2.2.1.3
              10 November 2013 at 2:47 pm

              Not another sheep
              So what sort of country did your ancestor want to leave for you? Mine were busy trying to achieve stuff, working hard with an interesting history.

              But in NZ we haven’t been able to break through an attitude that came over from the early colonials with their land speculation being the main drive of the NZ Company, selling plots and plans they didn’t own and that were a fraud. They wanted a place where there was still a class system with them at the top. And not too particular as to how they got their land or social position.

              There is more required than just quoting what has been achieved by individuals. It is no use to be complacent and ready to criticise individuals with ideas thatare uncomfortable. There is hard work ahead to progress what our ancestors hoped for even to maintain what they achieved.

            • Rogue Trooper 10.3.2.2.1.4
              10 November 2013 at 4:52 pm

              hmmmm.

  11. millsy 11
    9 November 2013 at 10:34 am

    Thanks to his comments on Radio Live, I would say that JT’s chances of a placing on the Labour Party list have diminished…

    He will just have to be happy with his position on the Waitakere Licencing Trust. Now that…is irony.

    • fender 11.1
      9 November 2013 at 11:08 am

      “Diminished”?

      I’d like to hope/expect that his chances are completely shot!

      I’ll NEVER vote for a Labour Party that has JT anywhere near its list!

      • gobsmacked 11.1.1
        9 November 2013 at 12:11 pm

        Fender +1

        It’s a deal-breaker for me. I can put up with MPs I don’t much like (Cosgrove, Mallard) because broad church yadda yadda … but Tamihere is way, way over the line.

        I’m 99% certain he won’t be standing for Labour again, but I’d like the last 1% to be confirmed.

        • Murray Olsen 11.1.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 8:46 pm

          Has Sealord Jones had anything to say about this? I have the horrible feeling that his thoughts may not be that different from Back Pussy Tamihere’s.

      • Lindsey J Rea 11.1.2
        9 November 2013 at 1:14 pm

        I think his chances have been shot for a long time. There are a lot of us Labour stalwarts who would picket any selection he was part of, or any List conference that had his name. I don’t think the Party leaders think he is worth the risk.

  12. phillip ure 12
    9 November 2013 at 10:35 am

    hilarious..!

    chris ‘i came – i saw – i did s.f.a’ auchinvale is on the nation..

    ..talking of his achievements/time in parliament..

    ..(cue long-silences..)

    ..phillip ure..

  13. chris73 13
    9 November 2013 at 10:39 am

    http://agrihq.co.nz/article/from-the-lip-red-carded-by-labours-new-leader?p=23

    – So Helen Clark fronted, Russel Normans fronting but Cunliffes decided its not worth the potential hassle….yeah

    • joe90 13.1
      9 November 2013 at 11:04 am

      Running errands for the Whangavegas kiddie farmer – that’s awfully good of you Chris..

    • andy (the other one) 13.2
      9 November 2013 at 11:05 am

      John Key does not front on National Radio for the same reasons? But does a weekly slot on lots of soft radio stations.

      I read the article and the writer lost me at being the one of the 10% who pay 70% of taxes, thinks double Dipton is ‘one of us’, and you wonder why Cunliffe thinks he will not get a fair hearing.

      • chris73 13.2.1
        9 November 2013 at 11:08 am

        And yet Russel Normans fronting up, I guess it shows what Cunliffe really thinks about the agricultural sector

        • andy (the other one) 13.2.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 11:09 am

          Or the guy is a dick.

          • chris73 13.2.1.1.1
            9 November 2013 at 11:21 am

            Well yes Cunliffe is a dick but I think in this case he really just doesn’t care about rural NZ and I don’t blame him ’cause its not like rural NZ contributes anything to the NZ economy

            • framu 13.2.1.1.1.1
              11 November 2013 at 4:39 pm

              no your just inventing things – perhaps your a dick too?

              look, the guy is one of those rank idiots if he believes that 10% of people pay 70% of tax

              its a lie
              its been pointed out as a lie for ages
              any one with any serious notion of whats going on will know this
              its only the blow hards and woefully manipulated who keep parroting this idiocy

              1) you need to include how much % you earn
              2) you need to include all forms of tax

              so maybe cunliffe should front – but not because you, or this other guy want to behave like fools

            • Tat Loo (CV) 13.2.1.1.1.2
              11 November 2013 at 5:14 pm

              in this case he really just doesn’t care about rural NZ and I don’t blame him ’cause its not like rural NZ contributes anything to the NZ economy

              you’re 100% wrong on that. Cunliffe grew up in a rural area of Canty and has first hand experience working in the farming sector as a youth. The decision not to appear on that radio show, which I personally find a bit unusual (what pollie turns down media air time?) , will have been based on other factors.

    • JK 13.3
      9 November 2013 at 1:12 pm

      ” When I think of Labour, I think of politicians such as Damien O’Connor, David Shearer, Grant Robertson, Annette King and Phil Goff. They’re eminently sensible people and, at a push, I could live with them running the country . ” yeah right ! So why should Cunliffe go on a program with such a di–head ?

    • millsy 13.4
      9 November 2013 at 4:14 pm

      “economic and environmental handbrakes on farming”

      So this guy thinks he should be able to pay bugger all tax, foul our water ways and makes kids sick, and make his workers work all day and all night for bugger all pay. Cool.

      His father sounded like a man with his head screwed on though — realising the Labour did more for farmers than National ever did.

  14. Draco T Bastard 14
    9 November 2013 at 10:52 am

    IMO, this has bearing upon the actions of the police in regards to Roastbusters:

    Police could have – again, should have – caught Rewa much earlier even than that. They were given the opportunity on a plate. They could have arrested him after the very first of his serial rapes.

    “I rung the Glen Innes police station. I gave them the name Hama, and the response was, ‘Well, that’s just a gang nickname. You know you need to come back to us with a real name.'”

    It seems endemic that the police always seem to want more evidence in rape cases – usually from the victims – rather than going out and finding it themselves as they’re supposed to do.

    • Murray Olsen 14.1
      9 November 2013 at 8:51 pm

      Wow. I bet if Hama had been wanted for assault on police they would have figured out who he was pretty quickly. I am rapidly firming in my opinion that ngati poaka have the systemic attitude that there’s not really a lot wrong with rape.

  15. Draco T Bastard 15
    9 November 2013 at 11:03 am

    How the current money system is damaging Businesses, Society and the Environment

    That’s a video.

    Might as well add this one to: Libertarians confused about capitalism

    “There is no evidence that capitalism exists today,” says former congressman Ron Paul. A leading libertarian voice in American politics, Paul says the land of the free no longer has free markets but an economy centrally planned by powerful elites, one that “allows major benefits to accrue to the politically connected,” not the most deserving.

    These days, “corporate subsidies” and “privileged government contracts to the military-industrial complex” are the path to riches, says Paul. “This is not capitalism!”

    If one defines capitalism as a system designed by and for the interests of those who hold capital (what it is), capitalism is what the United States has today. It is a system based not on principles of freedom and liberty and justice for all, but the accumulation of wealth for people called “capitalists.” It entails structuring an economy in such a way that natural resources are exploited for private gain and land is parceled off into mortgage-backed securities. It means rich people using their money to buy power and shape economic relations to their advantage, which makes them more money.

  16. Morrissey 16
    9 November 2013 at 12:21 pm

    LIARS OF OUR TIME

    No. 32: Sonny-Bill Williams

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “It’s good to get the win over Papua-New Guinea, a strong Papua-New Guinea side, aahhhh….”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —-Sonny-Bill Williams, after the Kiwis’ 56-10 World Cup slaughter of a winless PNG side. Halftime score: 40-nil.
    http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-LIVE-UPDATES-New-Zealand-Kiwis-V-Papua-New-Guinea-Rugby-League-World-Cup-2013/tabid/415/articleID/320650/Default.aspx#.Un1w8uD7JFQ

    More hopeless, hapless or criminal liars….
    No. 31 John Palino: “Suggestions that I am somehow orchestrating some grand right-wing conspiracy to unseat Len after the election are so wrong…”
    No. 30 Alan Dershowitz: “I will give $10,000 to the PLO if you can find a historical fact in my book that you can prove to be false.”
    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    No. 28 John Kerry: “…we are especially sensitive, Chuck and I, to never again asking any member of Congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence.”
    
No. 27 Lyse Doucet: “I am there for those without a voice.”
    
No. 26 Sam Wallace: “So here we are—Otahuhu. It’s just a great place to be, really.”


    No. 25 Margaret Thatcher: “…no British government involvement of any kind…with Khmer Rouge…”


    No. 24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    


No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”
    


No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    


No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    


No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    


No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”


    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”



    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”



    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”



    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    


No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    
No. 13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    




No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    


No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”



    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    


No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    


No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”



    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”




    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”




    No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    




No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
    



No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    



No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”




    No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

  17. The Pink Postman 17
    9 November 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Tamihere is an embarrassment to all us Labour members and supporters. The

  18. The Pink Postman 18
    9 November 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Tamihere is an embarrassment to all us Labour members and supporters. The

  19. The Pink Postman 19
    9 November 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Tamihere is an embarrassment to all us Labour members and supporters. The

  20. The Pink Postman 20
    9 November 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Tamihere is embarrassment to all Labour Members and supporters .The LP.Council need to expel him now. This is the second time he has made unexceptional comments .Forgive once but not twice.
    Most of us Lefties are working for a Socialist or Social Democratic Government in 2013.we do not need comments from the likes off Tanihere,Come on Moira take action and get rid of this clown

    • Aspasia 20.1
      9 November 2013 at 3:41 pm

      Pink Postman please look at 2.1.1.1 above and the posts following and give Moira and the NZ Council some ammunition.

  21. The Pink Postman 21
    9 November 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Did I read that there are only 30 members attending the Dunne party . Key will be considering the nasty Conservative Party. good bye Dunne.

  22. rilsildowgtn 22
    9 November 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Oh too much

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9382476/Dunnes-rise-of-the-purple-greens

    hahhahahahaha I have not laughed this painfully for ages…. so much it hurts ..

    • Rogue Trooper 22.1
      9 November 2013 at 3:45 pm

      just to paraphrase the essence ‘…the rise of the purple-greens , avocados?…whine-gums?…who pontificate and wring their grapes in despair…’ There, now that the steering of the nation in is in the capable hands of Peter and his 30 denying disciples I can relax with a Saturday matinee.

      • Tat Loo (CV) 22.1.1
        9 November 2013 at 4:11 pm

        I wouldn’t write Dunne off. He’s lasted far longer than most politicians ever do. And Labour’s best chance of unseating him, Chauvel, has unfortunately left our shores.

        • millsy 22.1.1.1
          9 November 2013 at 4:19 pm

          Yeah — personally I think he should take a lot of credit for ensuring that the Douglas-Richardson reforms staying more or less intact. It was him that ensured that Labour didnt stray to far to the left..

      • Rosie 22.1.2
        9 November 2013 at 5:12 pm

        Hubba Bubba? Grape flavour? Blowing big old’ bubbles?

        Theres been some interesting talk in the land of Ohariu about Dunne’s sudden revival of the UF Party from the corpse that it was. It’s been suggested that he targeted outdoor groups, perhaps Forest and Bird Members, Fish & Game etc for their membership of UF in return for representing them – luring them away from the Green vote. What else did he have left? There weren’t many tricks left up the sleeve.

        He is using emotive words like the “Taliban” in order to set his party aside as the sensible party, again continuing with the moderate theme, but being the wolf in sheep’s clothing (as Millsy refers to below, with the reality being that he is more far right than anything).

        Dunne will be facing calls for his accountability from locals this coming election year. His path ahead next year may not be so easy as it always has been. The difficult thing with this electorate is there are many locals blinded by his “service” to the community, which really amounts to turning up at school fairs etc and playing santa’s elf in the J’ville xmas parade (lol times, I know). They see him in a local context and can’t grasp what a true burden he is to the nation.

        Is it possible with a concerted local movement to call him to account for his actions and a real kick arse Labour candidate he could gone in the next election? Katrina Shanks will not be there for the next election, (she came third in 2011 with Chauval second) who will National put in her place or will they even put a candidate up? Labour members, is there any goss on who Labour might stand in the electorate?

    • millsy 22.2
      9 November 2013 at 4:07 pm

      It really pisses me off that Peter Dunne prances around the country telling everyone he is moderate and of the ‘sensible centre’, blah blah blah..

      The guy is clearly far right, closer to ACT than Labour, his opposition to any form of social democratic policy shows it, and his crap about wanting to protect the environment and conservation estate is shit, given that he didnt lift a single finger to oppose the cuts to DOC and privatisation/commercialisation the of conservation estate, and he has supported the lowering of air and water quality standards every single time.

      I would love to know what cuts to government services he will I wis to keep taxes for high income earners down, and if he supported the mass closures of schools and hospitals in the 1990’s to fund Bill Birch’s tax cuts.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.3
      9 November 2013 at 5:21 pm

      Part of the reason New Zealand’s environmental credentials had taken a hammering recently was because environmental policy had been “hijacked by the political left, and have accordingly succumbed to the notion that unless you are a Green, you cannot have any concern for our environment”.

      😆

      No, the reason why our environmental credentials have taken a hammering is because this government, including UF, have stripped environmental protections that weren’t all the great to begin with.

      “In an open society, there is a place for the Green Taliban, but it is at the fringes, and not centre stage

      /facepalm

      “In an open society, there is a place for the United Future Taliban, but it is at the fringes, and not centre stage

      Oh, wait, that’s where it is propping up a radical right government that has no concern for the environment or the people of NZ.

    • MrSmith 22.4
      9 November 2013 at 7:53 pm

      Don’t count Dunne out, he will be portraying himself as the champion of the hunting and fishing groups, unfortunately a lot of this group get their information second hand by word of mouth, they don’t follow politics or the MSM generally, but will get riled when someone is proposing to take anything off them, just what a he wants.

    • RedBaronCV 22.5
      9 November 2013 at 9:35 pm

      He’s anti women and children too

  23. Draco T Bastard 23
    9 November 2013 at 5:32 pm

    The shocking truth about the privatisation of power

    The electricity privatisation exceeded government expectations, delivering more than $20 billion to a cash-strapped state, with promises that in private hands, the delivery of electricity would be better and cheaper than the service provided by the old state-owned behemoth.

    Yep, heard that one time and time again. Heard the results as well:

    In a report this year, the Australia Institute used official figures to calculate that the cost of electricity increased by 170 per cent from 1995 to 2012 – four times higher than the rise in the consumer price index.

    Privatisation has resulted in worse service and higher prices everywhere it’s been tried. Telecom is our poster boy for this failed experiment but our faux electricity market isn’t far behind and with the sale of those companies we can expect the prices to rise even faster.

  24. greywarbler 24
    9 November 2013 at 6:56 pm

    On the elderly and making the point that economists ideas and counting our GDPon money passing hands and not measuring the Greater Domestic Prosperity by return of services and appreciation of everyone’s input. This woman is elderly and written a book that Labour should consider before they go raising the age of pensions.

    11:05 Patricia Edgar 12 October 2013
    Patricia Edgar is an Australian sociologist, educator, film and television producer, researcher and writer. Her new book is In Praise of Ageing (Text Publishing, ISBN: 978-1-92214-755-4).
    http://textpublishing.com.au/books-and-authors/book/in-praise-of-ageing/

    Patricia Edgar – praising ageing ( 38′ 52″ )
    11:10 Australian sociologist, educator, film and television producer, researcher and
    writer, whose new book is In Praise of Ageing.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/20131012

  25. karol 25
    9 November 2013 at 7:28 pm

    Just watching “Locked Up Warriors” that I recorded earlier from 101 east on Al Jazeera.

    Now this is depressing. Can be viewed online here:

    Tolley arrgrrghhh!!!

  26. chris73 26
    9 November 2013 at 8:35 pm

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/11/nationals-rejuvenation/#axzz2jZ9rhdH0

    – Heres a viewpoint I’m betting more than a few of you lot would agree with

  27. RedLogix 27
    9 November 2013 at 8:44 pm

    Worth noting as a follow up to the the Plebs and Plutocrat thread:

    Delivering his victory speech in the Park Slope neighbourhood of Brooklyn where he lives, De Blasio sought to temper expectations that were sky-high after his repeated campaign pledges to unite New York’s “two cities” – those of the haves and the have-nots.

    “Let me be clear, our work, all of our work, is really just beginning,” he said. “We have no illusions about the task that lies ahead. Tackling inequality isn’t easy. It never has been and it never will be. The challenges we face have been decades in the making, and the problems we sought to address will not be solved overnight. But make no mistake, the city has chosen a progressive path and tonight we set forward together on it, together as one city.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/bill-de-blasio-wins-new-york-mayoral-election

    So it turns out that the 99% ARE were the so-called ‘centre vote’ is.

  28. Tat Loo (CV) 28
    10 November 2013 at 2:10 am

    Just saw a coma’d young woman dragged out by the feet from the pub toilets. Covered in her own puke. Staff putting her in the recovery position; no movement whatsoever. Looks like emergency services are being called. Messy.

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