Open mike 10/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 10th, 2019 - 105 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

105 comments on “Open mike 10/06/2019 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. johnm 1
    10 June 2019 at 7:11 am

    Chris Hedges discusses with UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Nils Melzer the conditions of Julian Assange's detention, his psychological and physical health as well as the judicial proceedings against the WikiLeaks founder.

    • johnm 1.1
      10 June 2019 at 7:25 am

      Exclusive footage showing WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in London’s high security Belmarsh prison has been obtained by Ruptly. It was filmed on a device by a fellow inmate who describes himself as a supporter of the whistleblower.

    • johnm 1.2
      10 June 2019 at 7:29 am

      Allegations of torture in Belmarsh. Why did his health suddenly collapse? Allegations of poisoning.

      • aj 1.2.1
        10 June 2019 at 8:58 am

        Two words: David Kelly. I understand a documentary about his "suicide" is being made which will raise many questions about the 'dark actors' he spoke about before his death.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.2.2
        10 June 2019 at 2:46 pm

        175 years or the death warrant for someone that exposed the deep state of the USA's ( aka CIA / FBI and the neo con Hawks ) military industrial complexes agenda.

        Disgusting.

        Whats more disgusting is that a little while ago a Mod / blogger on this site tried to relegate that all down to a now disproven Swedish ' rape' charge , – along with all the other fan kids who supported that twisted identity politics apologist for the far right.

        How gross.

        How vomitous.

        Learn well from your elders and superiors, freaks. Learn your history well before you dare to comment and speak.

        https://youtu.be/CWiIYW_fBfY?t=3

  2. WeTheBleeple 2
    10 June 2019 at 7:16 am

    Devil In Disguise.

    There is a new type of constituent on the rise in Global Politics these days. They're not conservative but they're old fashioned. They're not Liberal but they're flashy. They are composed of both sexes, some token races and a broad range of age and economic cohorts. I am, of course, talking about Elvis Impersonators.

    When the King of Rock & Roll shrugged off his mortal coil in 1977, there were already a few diehard fans who wanted to be the King more than most. These folk, armed with sequins, bedazzlers and a wide variety of fringed suede rodeo wear; soon made their way onto karaoke stages everywhere as they began to pretend in earnest.

    From a paltry few on the fringes of fashion the movement grew. Three impersonators in 1978, 12 in 79, and now, in 2019, 100 million billion Elvis Impersonators and growing bigly.

    While this group had been considered a joke amongst establishment politicians, the groups candidate, Donald ‘Jive Turkey’ Trump, took the reins of power in America after threatening to perform a 24 hour rendition of Heartbreak Hotel if he didn't win. Trump's opposition, Hillary 'I left my heart in San Francisco' Clinton's fate was also sealed in a presidential debate when, after calling Trump a petulant pig, he countered with 'You aint nothin' but a hound dog'.

    Trump's first decree was to change the title of President to King, and to have stacks of burgers delivered to the White House by a Black Man. This pleased him tremendously. Other initiatives have seen him eradicate all record of Chuck Berry, and to establish laws banning Mexican Elvis Impersonators from America; especially the good ones. Future initiatives include rhinestone studs to replace the stars on the American flag, Karaoke machines with the complete Elvis collection installed in all McDonalds, and 250 Billion dollars put into research for hair replacement therapy.

    People all over the world have wrung their hands in earnest 'how did an Elvis Impersonator get power in the White House' simply forgetting the promise of burgers for all, and how he'd combed over the truth. Also, that Hillary was nothin' but a hound dog.

  3. Macro 3
    10 June 2019 at 7:23 am

    There hasn't been a lot of discussion on the nature of the new budget. For what it is worth it is a game changer in its approach to setting policy guidelines on government spending. Yet from what I see in NZ its been a huge "Meh!"

    However, progressive media overseas are looking not at the details -(which regrettably is the focus of most NZers) – but at the overall intention and direction of the new Wellbeing Budget process.

    Here is an article on Vox's Future Perfect to see what I mean.

    Forget GDP — New Zealand is prioritizing gross national well-being

    The country’s new “well-being budget” emphasizes citizen happiness over capitalist gain.

    We usually think of a country’s wealth or capital in terms of its financial bottom line: its gross domestic product. But New Zealand challenged the world to assess it in terms of a very different commodity, as the country released the first-ever “well-being budget” on May 30.

    To Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, the purpose of government spending is to ensure citizens’ health and life satisfaction, and that — not wealth or economic growth — is the metric by which a country’s progress should be measured. GDP alone, she said, “does not guarantee improvement to our living standards” and nor does it “take into account who benefits and who is left out.”

    The budget requires all new spending to go toward five specific well-being goals: bolstering mental health, reducing child poverty, supporting indigenous peoples, moving to a low-carbon-emission economy, and flourishing in a digital age.

    To measure progress toward these goals, New Zealand will use 61 indicators tracking everything from loneliness to trust in government institutions, alongside more traditional issues like water quality.

    Ardern, who has spoken of empathy as the trait most needed in political leaders nowadays, said that her government has “laid the foundation for not just one well-being budget, but a different approach for government decision-making altogether.”

    https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/8/18656710/new-zealand-wellbeing-budget-bhutan-happiness

    • Macro 3.1
      10 June 2019 at 7:33 am

      And shock! horror!

      Even the Guardian has an article outlining the new Well-Being Budget process.

      Child poverty, domestic violence and mental health will be the priorities in New Zealand’s “wellbeing budget”, the finance minister has announced, with the nation declaring itself the first in the world to measure success by its people’s wellbeing.

      On Tuesday Grant Robertson said that despite New Zealand’s “rockstar” economy many New Zealanders were being left behind, with home ownership at a 60-year low, the suicide rate climbing and homelessness and food aid grants on the rise.

      According to predictions by the International Monetary Fund, the New Zealand economy is expected to grow at around 2.5 % in 2019 and 2.9% in 2020. But Robertson emphasised many New Zealanders were not benefitting in their daily lives.

      Although comparable countries such as the UK have begun to measure the national rate of wellbeing, New Zealand is the first western country to design its entire budget around wellbeing priorities and instruct its ministries to design policies to improve wellbeing.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/14/new-zealands-world-first-wellbeing-budget-to-focus-on-poverty-and-mental-health

      • Siobhan 3.1.1
        10 June 2019 at 12:44 pm

        Shock! Horror! that The Guardian would cover, and no doubt like, a safe, middle of the road, hand wringing, non transformational, financially suffocated budget from NZ Labour….have you ever read the Guardian?

        • Macro 3.1.1.1
          10 June 2019 at 1:07 pm

          Have you actually read what this Well-being budget is about and how it was created? Are you, as well as almost every other NZer, completely unaware that this is a world first – aimed at creating a Budget and therefore Government Policy that addresses the welfare of all New Zealanders – not just the chosen few. Yes even the Guardian has chosen to highlight the significance of this world first attempt at creating a better society.

          And yes I do read the Guardian which you obviously don't. You might like to read the article I linked to, to see what it does have to say. I quoted some of it for you.

          Here is what Robert Kennedy had to say about our obsession with GDP – the fiscal measure that drove previous Budgets both here and everywhere else in the western world.

          • Poission 3.1.1.1.1
            10 June 2019 at 2:10 pm

            looks like the russians were there first on a wellbeing budget.

            http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/57425

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.1.1.2
            10 June 2019 at 3:13 pm

            Macro…perhaps we, the hoipolloi, the one's who don't get 'it', need some kind Sign from the Coalition.

            Something to convince us that they are Serious, that the Mean Business.

            That they genuinely Care.

            Because all this talk, after three decades of being ground underfoot, is simply not convincing.

            The fact that the Guardian thinks it's all very wonderful is not an accolade.wink

            • Brigid 3.1.1.1.2.1
              10 June 2019 at 3:46 pm

              "The fact that the Guardian thinks it's all very wonderful is not an accolade"

              So true Rosemary.

      • AB 3.1.2
        10 June 2019 at 2:14 pm

        "“For me, well-being means people living lives of purpose, balance and meaning to them, and having the capabilities to do so,” said Robertson"

        Purpose balance and meaning are great – but we only get to that point once material necessities are taken care of and not under continual threat of loss or removal by the powerful – "the realm of freedom begins where the realm of necessity ends."

    • Sacha 3.2
      10 June 2019 at 8:45 am

      "which regrettably is the focus of most NZers"

      .. of our media.

    • ianmac 3.3
      10 June 2019 at 9:20 am

      All elected MPs are there to further the wellbeing of every NZer. We believe most MPs who say that that is what they are there for.

      So how does the behaviour of MPs like Simon Bridges fit into that claim? By all means hold the Government to account but to deny the evidence that the Budget marks a significant shift to improve the wellbeing of we the people, is treasonous in my book. Bullies twist truth, belittle, sneer and demean. Does this sound like what Bridges/Bennett do?

      • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.1
        10 June 2019 at 1:44 pm

        "…but to deny the evidence that the Budget marks a significant shift to improve the wellbeing of we the people, is treasonous in my book. "

        What evidence? Surely it is way too soon to be counting the hatchlings?

        Methinks calling those of us who are less than orgasmic 'treasonous' is more than a little harsh.

        Makes me wonder who is up whom and who's paying.laugh

      • Molly 3.3.2
        10 June 2019 at 2:27 pm

        <i>" deny the evidence that the Budget marks a significant shift to improve the wellbeing of we the people, is treasonous in my book "</i>

        I'm with Rosemary on this. Despite the fanfare, the improvements proposed are not significant in terms of investment or effectiveness. As an innovative budget it does not deliver more for those who have waited an awfully long time to be noticed.

        • ianmac 3.3.2.1
          10 June 2019 at 3:33 pm

          We were not told if the "leaked" material was actually part of the Budget. Gordon writes:

          To repeat: the fact that the information released by Bridges had been only the pre-announced stuff – which was why it had been pre-loaded on the website, awaiting the full inputs on Budget Day itself – should have immediately told those concerned what they were (almost certainly) dealing with.

          So molehills certainly grow. Had Treasury/Robertson front footed this it would have negated Simon's blather wouldn't it?

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1906/S00024/the-treasury-debacle-and-nzs-wider-security-problems.htm

          • Anne 3.3.2.1.1
            10 June 2019 at 4:36 pm

            …early on the Wednesday, the sole focus of National leader Simon Bridges on the “bungling” and incompetence” aspects (while not giving further revelations about Budget content) should have galvanized Robertson to go on the front foot and (a) publically clarify the likely nature of the leak (b) re-assure the public of its limited nature and thereby (c) begin to distance the government from Treasury’s overcooked initial “explanation” as to what had happened. As we now know, Robertson did none of the above.

            This new information is concerning.

            Indeed, why didn't Grant Robertson front foot it the next day – or the day after?

            It could be because they were receiving conflicting information from more than one source so they decided to go for an inquiry.

            Well have to wait and see the outcome now.

        • ianmac 3.3.2.2
          10 June 2019 at 3:37 pm

          Molly and Rosemary I wonder why the commentary on the Wellbeing Budget has been noticed and written about overseas. After all, a small country Budget would usually cause a big yawn or less – unless it was the beginning of some pretty important direction in spite of the relentless naysayers.

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.2.2.1
            10 June 2019 at 4:04 pm

            Ianmac. Twenty something years ago I was speaking with a child protection social worker from the UK. This social worker had attended a training program on Family Group Conferences.

            The model they were rolling out in her area of the Midlands was based on our wonderful Family Group Conference scheme here in New Zealand. "World Beating!!!" "Innovative!!!" "The Answer to Rising Youth Offending!!!".

            I don't think she fully believed me when I told the the scheme was largely a flop.

            There's the spin, and then there's the reality.

            Perhaps some of us live closer to the ground.

            Results Ianmac, how are we going to measure the outcomes/outputs?

            • ianmac 3.3.2.2.1.1
              10 June 2019 at 5:25 pm

              Fair enough Rosemary. Results trump Rhetoric. I am optimistic about the intent turning into healthy results.

      • Gabby 3.3.3
        10 June 2019 at 11:18 pm

        A significant shift? You way funnier than bleepy makky.

        • Macro 3.3.3.1
          11 June 2019 at 9:42 am

          WELLBEING OVERVIEW

          What is wellbeing? Wellbeing is when people lead fulfilling lives with purpose, balance and meaning to them. Giving more New Zealanders the capability to improve their wellbeing requires tackling the long-term challenges we face as a country, like the mental health crisis and breaking the cycle of child poverty and domestic violence. It means improving the state of our environment, the strength of our communities and the performance of our economy. Making the best choices for current and future generations requires looking beyond economic growth and considering social, environmental, and economic implications together. The Wellbeing Budget does this in three ways:

          1. Breaking down agency silos and working across government to assess, develop and implement policies that improve wellbeing

          2. Focusing on outcomes that meet the needs of present generations at the same time as thinking about the long-term impacts for future generations, and

          3. Tracking our progress with broader measures of success, including the health of our finances, natural resources, people and communities.

          The Wellbeing Budget Package focuses on the five priorities announced in the Budget Policy Statement, as well as funding to maintain public services at the level New Zealanders expect. These priorities were identified using collaborative and evidence-based processes, involving Science Advisors and the Treasury’s Living Standards Framework. The five priorities are:

          • Supporting mental wellbeing for all New Zealanders, with a special focus on under 24-year-olds

          • Reducing child poverty and improving child wellbeing, including addressing family violence

          • Lifting Māori and Pacific incomes, skills and opportunities • Supporting a thriving nation in the digital age through innovation, social and economic opportunities, and

          • Creating opportunities for productive businesses, regions, iwi and others to transition to a sustainable and low-emissions economy.

          https://treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-05/b19-at-a-glance.pdf
          Regrettably these shifts are obviously insignificant for many commentators here.

    • The Chairman 3.4
      10 June 2019 at 11:57 am

      Unfortunately, the international coverage is miles away from the reality on the ground.

      https://youtu.be/FNCMIjXMK9o?t=1

      • Macro 3.4.1
        10 June 2019 at 1:12 pm

        As I said – NZers such as you, have obsessed about the detail rather than the significance of the way in which this Budge was formulated.

        But we can only expect that sort of reaction from naysayers such as yourself who can never find the good and only look for the bad.

        • The Chairman 3.4.1.1
          10 June 2019 at 1:46 pm

          The reason being, the importance is generally in the details and the difference it actually makes on the ground.

        • Molly 3.4.1.2
          10 June 2019 at 2:31 pm

          Macro, I find myself in company with The Chairman more and more these days, – the link he put up is worth watching.

          I miss the lack of critique of any policy just because it is produced by the current coalition. It is not just a question of tribal politics, there are New Zealanders who are currently living diminished lives – and who have already waited decades to be noticed and they are still required to wait.

          There are fundamental failures in essential services that need innovative and directed change, and none of this is happening.

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.4.1.2.1
            10 June 2019 at 3:04 pm

            I miss the lack of critique…

            I am beyond 'missing'. I feel bereft. Near weeping I am at the lack of real debate and shocked at the slurs against those of us who are not yet convinced…

            Hint…not being 100% convinced this Current Mob are committed to reversing three decades of sociopathic governance doth not a National supporter make.

            • McFlock 3.4.1.2.1.1
              10 June 2019 at 4:08 pm

              Do you seriously expect that from a government coalition that relies on a party that went into coalition with the 4th national govt?

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                10 June 2019 at 4:20 pm

                Hmm…what was that about lying down with dogs?

                I was just saying this morning that a Certain Person must be causing no end of irritation for Ardern and Co.

                What was it about…oh, yes, the cameras on fishing boat thing…https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/06/plan-to-protect-maui-dolphin-slammed-by-environmentalists-academics.html

                • McFlock …
                  10 June 2019 at 4:36 pm

                  Getting fleas is usually better than being dog tucker.

                  The results of election2017 are the facts on the ground. I sure can't see any other coalition deal possible from those results that would deliver more funadamental change than what we have.

                  At least they're making an effort, and minimising NZ1's immigration ideas while supporting the regional growth plans.

                  • Macro …
                    10 June 2019 at 7:12 pm

                    Exactly.

                    So many people seem unable to comprehend the reality perhaps best espoused by Bismarck":

                    “Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best”

                    ― Otto von Bismarck

                    • adam …
                      10 June 2019 at 8:08 pm

                      FFS, this centre left bs is tiring. All you ever do is lose voters, you have done that for the last 30 odd years. You keep throwing people to the wolves in the name of political expediency. Your ideological as all hell without accepting you are – and it makes you look alot like those other crazy ideologies.

                      If the labour party of the early 20th century had acted like you lot, then social democracy would never of happened.

                      Just a final point, because the blindly obvious needs to be said. You know that quoting Bismark and/or Churchill makes you look like a Tory prick on a left wing website, don't you?

                    • McFlock …
                      10 June 2019 at 8:24 pm

                      Screw you. I tried the NLP and Alliance. There were others even further left that made even less of an impact. If incrementalism is losing votes, why did none of them take the place of Labour?

                      That's the shitty thing about democracy – votes win, not theory.
                      The sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll stop railing against your nearest allies.

                      This government is not the end in itself. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning – especially if the terminally glum start being able to identify friend from foe.

                    • RedLogix …
                      11 June 2019 at 7:05 am

                      especially if the terminally glum start being able to identify friend from foe.

                      Or indeed cease from multiplying their foes 🙂

                  • The Chairman …
                    11 June 2019 at 9:52 am

                    The results of election2017 are the facts on the ground. I sure can't see any other coalition deal possible from those results that would deliver more funadamental change than what we have.

                    Evidently, you need help to see. Labour could have (in numerous ways) offered Peters more, allowing him to keep face with his supporters in return for his support for more.

                    • McFlock …
                      11 June 2019 at 2:19 pm

                      Ah, so the way to getting more left wing policy is the make policy concessions to an inherently conservative party, rather than focusing on the common ground?

                      Which policy concessions do you recommend Labour and the Greens make to NZ1? Walk back a bit on immigration? In exchange for what?

                  • The Chairman …
                    12 June 2019 at 10:06 am

                    Ah, so the way to getting more left wing policy is the make policy concessions to an inherently conservative party, rather than focusing on the common ground?

                    No. Offering more where there is common ground along with more (such as in the way of funding) where concessions have already been made. Conditional on more NZF support of course.

                    And one way to fund that (along with raising more revenue for the Government overall) is to vastly increase the tourist levy. From the $35 recently announced to say $200 per adult and a $100 per child. That way, a million visitors (NZ has almost 4 million annually) would generate in excess of $100 million in new Government revenue. That would help buy a lot more of NZF's support.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 June 2019 at 1:55 pm

                      So your suggestion is that both NZ1 and Labour have a "common ground" in triple-figure tourist levies? Without any data on how that might affect tourism in the regions?

                    • RedLogix …
                      12 June 2019 at 2:06 pm

                      @McF
                      I know the outdoor community is definitely fed up with the chronic underfunding of DoC, while at the same time watching the tourism industry profit either directly or indirectly from the Conservation Estate.

                      I've participated in numerous discussions elsewhere that all generally agree that increased levies on tourists is both justified and affordable for most visitors.

                      Yes it will price some marginal visitors from coming here, and yes there is plenty of scenery elsewhere in the world. What everyone agrees on is that NZ's competitive advantage is in the quality of visitor's experience here and maintaining that is the intelligent way forward.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 June 2019 at 3:55 pm

                      Yeah, that is probably the case. There's a long haul between that and NZ1 in particular supporting the tourist industry cool off a bit. The transition to package coach tours does keep more of the money away from the regions visited, but tourism is still an employer in a lot of the regions.

                  • The Chairman …
                    12 June 2019 at 2:42 pm

                    There have already been calls to slow our tourism numbers. We have a shortage of hotel rooms and an expected surging increase in visitors.

                    Therefore, we have scope for numbers to slow and perhaps even fall off a little.

                    Additionally, although numbers may fall off, the up side is it is likely to lift the quality of visitors which in turn are likely to spend more increasing our tourist income stream.

                    But of course, I wasn't suggesting research on it not being done. Nevertheless, as you can see, with tourism trending up coupled with NZ reaching maximum capacity, the notion has real potential.

                    • McFlock …
                      12 June 2019 at 3:08 pm

                      So you actually have nothing then.

                      Including having no idea whether your suggestion would be palatable to either Labour/Grn or NZ1, let alone all of them.

                  • The Chairman …
                    12 June 2019 at 10:11 pm

                    Not at all. I highlighted one way Labour could have possibly gained more NZF support.

                    Moreover, seeing as an entry levy has recently been announced, it indicates the three support the notion. Suggesting the potential for increasing it is in the realm of reality.

              • Molly …
                10 June 2019 at 7:01 pm

                No. I don't seriously think this government will deliver meaningful changes, which is why I didn't vote Labour last election. With or without NZ First, none of their election promises seem to be effective solutions to my personal areas of concern.

                That seems to be borne out by the last twenty months of policy and programmes.

                But I will not cheer for substandard measures because of their … Coalition partner, self-imposed budget restrictions, need to get re-elected, rhetoric about wellbeing…

                I will applaud along with many others when policy arrives that does help the most marginalised and forgotten.

                • McFlock …
                  10 June 2019 at 8:19 pm

                  So what have you applauded in the last couple of years?

                  Winter energy payments? $60/w for parents of infants? Money to apprenticeships? Healthy rental homes? Removal of "name the father" benefit sanctions? Actually setting child poverty reduction as a targeted priority? Supergold card? First year free tertiary education?

                    • In Vino …
                      10 June 2019 at 9:16 pm

                      I hope that all of you who have responded to The Chairman @ 3.4 understand that he is a concern troll, and, just like the devil, quotes the scriptures for his own purposes. His aim is to spread despondency on the Left, and with your replies you have pretty well given him reason to smile sardonically.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      10 June 2019 at 9:39 pm

                      In Vino, veritas.

                    • The Chairman …
                      11 June 2019 at 9:52 am

                      @In Vino

                      We know claiming I'm a concern troll puts your mind at ease, saving you from facing the reality I'm from the left.

                      Nevertheless, what you fail to see in my post at 3.4 is I had nothing to do with the People's Budget and the feelings expressed there.

                      So while I largely agree with the sentiments expressed, it is Labour's failure to deliver that is behind the growing despondency on the left.

                    • The Al1en …
                      11 June 2019 at 10:03 am

                      Labour's failure to deliver that is behind the growing despondency on the left

                      The only despondency on show is from the nat media and you.

                      And as rim clingers have quite unrealistic expectations and won't ever be satisfied, however left the government is, they're always moping, so nothing in particular to do with this budget.

                    • Rosemary McDonald …
                      11 June 2019 at 10:10 am

                      @ The Al1en,

                      The only despondency on show is from the nat media and you.

                      You seriously, and I mean seriously, need to get out more.

                      You are doing your heroes in the Coalition no favours by this blind and almost insensible defense of their every word, every policy, every move…

                    • The Al1en …
                      11 June 2019 at 10:53 am

                      Firstly, addressing you in your bubble, they're not my heroes and heroines, they're just who I voted for, and sure there are policies I want which aren't there yet, but considering the make up of the government I fully accept you can't always get what you want when you want it. Compromises have to be made, but it's still better than English's nats ruling the roost, right? Well that's called progress. Next time out, if we vote accordingly, then I’d expect to see more and more.

                      As far as despondency goes, it's just more of the same from the same people, here and the media. I stand by my above post. There is no groundswell of dissatisfaction against the government, no movement for change, no national debate. Nothing is perfect, not by a long shot, but to claim growing despondency is just malicious.

                    • The Chairman …
                      12 June 2019 at 10:31 am

                      @The Al1en

                      As shown numerous times, I'm far from the only one disappointed.

                      The People's Budget was totally about the recent Budget.

                      What's come to my attention is there is more and more left commentators (that are largely supportive of Labour) expressing their disappointment.

                      And while you foolishly write them off as mopers, you forget they are the voices and those working on the front line whose insights help change public opinion and help muster Labour's foot soldiers and voters come election day.

                    • greywarshark …
                      12 June 2019 at 4:03 pm

                      In Vino

                      Come a bit more often if you can. I don't see IV often enough. What about doubling it to VIII?

  4. Sanctuary 4
    10 June 2019 at 7:26 am

    How much longer can the Luddite wing of the Green party maintain it's irrational and dogmatic opposition to GE in the face of so much good it can do?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/113270164/better-strategy-to-control-malaria-get-rid-of-the-mosquitoes

    • Andre 4.1
      10 June 2019 at 7:53 am

      The problem with getting rid of the mosquitoes is they are an integral part of the food chain in many ecosystems. So I am a little surprised that Wiles is advocating it.

      From memory though, there are organisms that suppress malaria in the mosquito phase. Wohlbachia comes to mind. Those look like better targets for further engineering.

    • WeTheBleeple 4.2
      10 June 2019 at 7:57 am

      https://www.nature.com/news/2010/100721/full/466432a.html

      Scientists have identified some ecological niches (pollinators, food) for mosquitos but also believe mosquitos ecological niche would be filled fairly readily. While I am dubious of such claims the fact is mosquitos are an absolute curse to mankind.

      It only takes one, non-disease carrying mossy to completely screw up your nights sleep. And I've slapped myself so it hurt a number of times coming out of slumber to target the whining buzz. Yet here in NZ we have it easy, but in many countries these things severely weaken and even kill humans.

      I think a gene drive makes more sense than an engineered fungi (or microbe) because every critter we've ever tried to control with insecticidal compounds has simply grown a resistance to it over time. The more you use bio and chemical pesticides, the greater the chances they will be overcome.

      Some folks in the greens resist for the sake of resisting and have little to no scientific or ecological knowledge. Others are extremely sharp, are are not close to the Luddites as you describe. Is it dogmatism or caution that keeps them in opposition to such technology? Science has done itself no favors getting in bed with the corporates of the world. Now, the world is understandably cautious.

      The rent a crowd mob really are annoying (and shrill), but sometimes they're the only people protesting and illuminating things of great public interest. Without canaries in the coal mine we'd all be cooked.

      Folding and letting industry just get on with anything is a mugs game. At the end of the day public interest and common sense should prevail – but not if there's money to be made – then it's a dollar each way.

      • greywarshark 4.2.1
        10 June 2019 at 6:30 pm

        I understand that the wild animal seasonal stampede across the vast plains was to get free of the midges. Perhaps we subconsciously are taking a lesson from the wild when some of us (not me) set out on marathons. Perhaps they do serve some practical purpose other than avoiding sitting and thinking about our world and we people and what we personally can do to aid us all in the near future after disasters played like concertinas. Perhaps they will set themselves up as part of a message relay system when the lines go down from Auckland to Wellington.

    • RedLogix 4.3
      10 June 2019 at 1:32 pm

      Agreed. In the early days of GE technology there were good reasons to be cautious and hold back. That's not the same thing as being stuck in the past forever.

      And the same with nuclear power. The first few generations of nuclear energy generation were worth skipping over, but the new molten salt reactors look a lot more promising.

      • KJT 4.3.1
        11 June 2019 at 8:07 pm

        You really think that the precautionary principle on GE, should be abandoned?

        So far research funding for GE, is about 100 to 1 balance towards commercial application, compared with research on safety.

        I've yet to be convinced that GE, is any better than introducing rabbits.

        • RedLogix 4.3.1.1
          11 June 2019 at 8:48 pm

          The first one or two generations of any new technology will always have the most unintended consequences. But GE has been around for quite a few decades now and the world may have problems, but a runaway GE disaster is not one of them.

          I'm not advocating that NZ should rush into a wholesale embrace of GE, but the time is past when we can justify keeping the door fully slammed shut either.

  5. marty mars 5
    10 June 2019 at 7:53 am

    Fighting the good fight

    Qiane Matata-Sipu says “We live here, this is our whenua, we’ve been here for 800 years and we’ll be here for 800 more and if it’s not me it will be my daughter. I’m so actively involved in this kaupapa and sacrificing time with my family now because I don’t want her to have to do this when she gets older, so she can just be and not have to fight and not have to try to protect her whenua and assert her rights and right the wrongs of her past.”

    Fletchers has 18 months from May 6 to close the Ihumātao Quarry Road, and force the SOUL protesters off the land. Matata-Sipu doesn’t think Fletcher have all the necessary paperwork to do so yet, and is holding on to hope that someone steps in to help them claim back their whenua before it comes to confrontation.

    “You have to be hopeful, if you lose your hope you have nothing left … This is all a part of history and what we’re asking people is: What side of history do you want to be on? How do you want to be remembered? This is our whenua that we are so strongly connected to, so what have we got to lose?”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/01-06-2019/weve-been-here-800-years-well-be-here-800-more-a-day-at-ihumatao/

    • WeTheBleeple 5.1
      10 June 2019 at 7:22 pm

      "In 1863 Ihumātao was confiscated by the crown as a punishment for supporting the Kīngitanga movement, and Matata-Sipu says since then, the government and council have not done enough to make reparations."

      Well the crown should bloody well give it back then. That's the modern day equivalent of taking Fletchers land for supporting National.

  6. Muttonbird 6
    10 June 2019 at 8:12 am

    The reaction from the streets of Tauranga.

    "I don't think about Simon Bridges to be perfectly honest," one person told Newshub.

    "I'm a little bit disappointed in him," said another.

    One local said they're a "super fan of National" – but not its leader.

    "I think he made quite a lot of it when he could have told us in perhaps not such a derogatory way," said another.

    "He could've waited and delved into it later but not beforehand, he only does it so he can get his face out there which we don't want to see anyway," one person said.

    🤣

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/poll-most-new-zealanders-think-national-was-wrong-to-leak-treasury-budget-details.html

    • marty mars 6.1
      10 June 2019 at 8:15 am

      lol ouch

      I'm sure he'll have the lemonade stand going at full production this morning.

      • Adrian 6.1.1
        10 June 2019 at 9:44 am

        I think you mean the 'Kool-Aid stand "

        For Gods sake don't drink the Kool-Aid that way means Death. Uh oh, too late.

        • marty mars 6.1.1.1
          10 June 2019 at 11:15 am

          yep and he'll come out saying that either the polls are a waste of time (until one shows his support increasing) or that he is confident everything is cool. But his pinched lemon pursed lipped grimace (reminiscent of that 5th tequila shot lemon suck you may remember) will slightly lighten as sour lemonaid gets ingested instead.

    • Muttonbird 6.2
      10 June 2019 at 10:01 am

      👏

    • mac1 6.3
      10 June 2019 at 10:11 am

      The Streets of Tauranga.

      As I walked out in the streets of Tauranga
      As I walked out in Tauranga one day
      I saw Simon Bridges dressed in his brown winkle-pickers,
      White shirt, blue tie, and brylcreem pomade.

      Oh play the drum loudly and not quite in rhythm
      To echo my political career up to this date.
      Take me to Caucus I'll hand in my papers
      I’ll hand in my papers for I’m resigning today!

      "I see by your outfit that you're a reporter"
      These words he did say as I boldly walked by
      "Come sit down beside me and hear my sad story
      Got stabbed in the back and I still don't know why."

      "T'was once I was famed as leader of National
      And still am as far as the caucus might say
      But 5 per cent of voters are all that support me
      Five per cent, with David Seymour on a good day.

      "Go fetch me a glass of a craft Monteith lager
      And a drum kit to beat up a political storm!"
      Before I returned his caucus had left him
      For champers with Judith and let him forlorn.

      "Oh play the drum loudly and not quite in rhythm
      To echo my political career up till now.
      Take me to Caucus I'll hand in my papers
      I'll hand in my papers for I'm resigning, the cow! "

    • marty mars 6.4
      10 June 2019 at 11:51 am

      he has one loyal supporter – lol

      Despite this, the party's deputy leader Paula Bennett insists Bridges' leadership is safe.

      "I'm the person that works most closely with him and I can tell you that I reckon that he is going to be our next Prime Minister," she told the AM Show this morning.

      She said the public know that Bridges was "capable and he is intelligent and is incredibly hard-working".

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/bridges-demise-leader-inevitable-%E2%80%93-pundit

      Oh and I just heard DPF is going to be on the radio with Jesse explaining the difference between the polls – ffs that guy is tainted and not independent imo – use your brains radionz or whatever you’re called.

      • greywarshark 6.4.1
        10 June 2019 at 12:08 pm

        Radionz-z-z-z…..doh!

      • WeTheBleeple 6.4.2
        10 June 2019 at 1:41 pm

        "She said the public know that Bridges was "capable and he is intelligent and is incredibly hard-working".

        That's ridonkulous. Funny though.

  7. Rapunzel 7
    10 June 2019 at 8:16 am

    Is anyone else lost for words that the Herald pays Hoskings to write this "Ardern's D-Day snub a glib insult to D Day" though it goes hand in hand with the day by day reckonings if she attends something it is to grab favour and headlines and if not it's a glib insult.

    That aside and I suppose people will decide, assuming they even see it as such or even an issue, but blatant "glib dismissal" is, for me, written all over the Opposition "leader's" face with his thick-skinned denial that a huge number of NZers from all quarters are not buying into him, his leadership or his most recent political offering.

    • Muttonbird 7.1
      10 June 2019 at 8:21 am

      Hosking's rants are the sign of a desperate man and this one is no different.

      I'll tell you what is an insult – that suit jacket.

      • Rapunzel 7.1.1
        10 June 2019 at 10:33 am

        I live in Tauranga and am quite shocked that people are now talking publically, normally it's what's wrong with everyone else.

        I bet Bill English has a bit of chuckle to himself most days, a bit of a "dish eaten cold".

  8. Observer Tokoroa 8
    10 June 2019 at 9:29 am

    The Scum of National

    I had hoped that following their recent Theft of Documents – Without Permission – and distributing them nation wide – Simon Bridges and Mrs Bennett would realise their stupidity, get out of their National gutter, and follow the Laws that ban Theft and promote ethics.

    Instead, they have utterly ridiculed the 2019 Budget which has been built on new structures. WellBeing Budget – for All. The Finances are allotted to achieve the highly innovative structures.

    Mr Bridges and Mrs Bennett immediately started their propaganda declaring there is nothing for the Middle Class. They will get nothing.! Liars.

    How low do those two Politicians go !

    The Coaltion Government must develop well spoken Advocates and send them through Aotearoa to make sure all of New Zealand knows the Truth.

    • bewildered 8.1
      10 June 2019 at 5:12 pm

      They are the opposition, I recall labour where also more than adept at barking at every passing car Just accept not every one has jumped onto the Jacinda train

      • I feel love 8.1.1
        10 June 2019 at 5:41 pm

        "barking at every passing car" & how effective was that for Labour? & they were disparaged for doing it too, National haven't learned a thing, what's the saying about the definition of stupidity is repeating the same thing & expecting a different result? That's National bouncing off that same wall…long may it last.

  9. WILD KATIPO 9
    10 June 2019 at 9:55 am

    The words of the song from Midnight Oil regarding civil freedoms – pertaining even to Julian Assange and his plight against overwhelming state collusion and bullying , our wildlife brethren and the environment we share , still ring true today.

    Then it was Bush and Blair and their odious lies on 'weapons of mass destruction' and Bush Sr's One World Govt fetish… today its that same hack of globalists trying to silence one of our greatest exposer's of Deep State secrecy ,… Julian Assange.

    https://youtu.be/qspbF5owcZk?t=2https://youtu.be/qspbF5owcZk?t=2https://youtu.be/qspbF5owcZk?t=2https://youtu.be/qspbF5owcZk?t=2vv

    • ianmac 10.1
      10 June 2019 at 1:45 pm

      Thanks for all that work Swordfish.

    • WeTheBleeple 10.2
      10 June 2019 at 1:47 pm

      Thanks, great work as usual. Bolger really was an unpopular plonker wasn't he. Had forgotten about that particular excrement.

    • WILD KATIPO 10.3
      10 June 2019 at 2:06 pm

      Thing is , your taking stats from a time when NZ didn't have any opposition to Douglas's neo liberalism. Or Bolgers, or Richardsons, or Shipleys , or Clarkes or any of the other scumbags who followed Douglas.

      And we have yet to see any viable opposition to neo liberalism to date.

      Therefore the whole argument is slanted in favor of the incremental diatribe of that of ideology. Therefore it is bogus. Proves nothing. And that is why we have had a Teachers strike. And in future, there will be more as more Union leaders acquiesce to their members instead of Labour party fishead's and demand realistic wages and conditions.

      Don't blame me. – I'm just the messenger .

      And personally ?

      I don't give a rats shit what anyone of you thinks. And why ?, – because I don't give a rats arse about being tribal. I could just as soon see Labour take a dive as well as National , so long as the working people of NZ get a fair deal , – which they haven't over the last 35 years of bullshit neo liberal incrementalism.

  11. WILD KATIPO 11
    10 June 2019 at 11:12 am

    From Nicki Hager , author of the book 'Dirty Politics' to the Afghanistan incident to which John Key was signatory for the go – ahead , and Wayne Mapp was the Minister of Defense , and the subsequent Police raiding of his ( Hagers ) home to Martyn Bradbury's 'behind closed doors evidence' against him by the NZ Police,… to the illegal warrant and arrest and detainment of Kim Dotcom and the illegal impounding of his assets designed to deny him moneys to finance his defense, – in order to pander to the then ratification of the Hollywood Motion Picture industry's TTPA's copyright laws before Congress which have no jurisdiction in NZ ,…

    How can we ever expect to see Julian Assange receive a fair trial if we cannot even stand up against corruption on our own shores?

    How can we sleep when our beds are burning?

    Shame on NZ.

  12. greywarshark 12
    10 June 2019 at 12:06 pm

    Just to say I have put up an extensive comment on How to Get There which is in moderation at present because there were quite a few links. But then come and see –

    on tree planting in Africa – the Green Wall, and

    A NZr Wendy Campbell Purdie who did wonders with tree planting and disbelieving governments, and

    Algeria and Morocco about their tree planting in the past and now

    and Moroccos solar array and

    the many women who have been involved in tree planting schemes on the planet and

    An idea by environmental scientists on how to create a different sort of boundary between USA and Mexico.

    And remember that How to Get There is a living document' it is just not fish'n'chips wrapper thrown away after the day, it is the actual fish and chips! There to take a bite of whatever is on offer and lots of good things over the weeks.

    • WILD KATIPO 12.1
      10 June 2019 at 12:24 pm

      Perhaps we could go a long way by taking notice of this article by Christine Rose over at the Daily Blog ,… long term campaigner and environmentalist…

      $17million camera programme good for fishing sector not for dolphins …

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/…/17million-camera-programme-good-for-fishing-sector-n…

      And btw… this site seems to have turned to shit a little bit as of late… no offense but its a little crappy with posting or pasting atm… anyways we humans are slow learners it seems at times… me included , so its nothing personal. And that's why again, … the posting of Midnight Oil. In the words of Led Zeppelin, … the 'Song Remains The Same'…

      Midnight Oil – Beds Are Burning – YouTube

      • greywarshark 12.1.1
        10 June 2019 at 12:33 pm

        WK I know you are a bit wild and a force of nature commenter but please don't throw ordure around just saying. If there is something with the site that you want improved say so – don't say it's shit.

        So specifically is it difficult for you to put up links, vids etc? If so state the problem, ask others for advice, and we can all learn – very helpful if it gets explained on site. List the problems will you so we don't get too much creativity of description.

        • WILD KATIPO 12.1.1.1
          10 June 2019 at 12:48 pm

          No , its not the site ,- its great ,… its more the techco side that's cumbersome.

          I use Google , and the pasting thingy is crap.

          I'd also thank you to not distract from the 'issues' at hand and attempt to relegate them to a mere mechanical technological deflection because you are comfortable with the format. Other than that , no problems from what you posted.

          The issue lies with the spell checker and the post / paste thingy.

          Thanking you.

          • greywarshark 12.1.1.1.1
            10 June 2019 at 6:42 pm

            Who says I'm comfortable with the format? I just realise that lprent is a sort of wizard who puts a lot of his spare time into keeping this show going. So I have been schtum for a long time about the search engine, just a wee mention FTTT, and now I am happy to have that.

            If something else doesn't work out I find a way around it, or swear, or do what you did and ask. I just don't say the shebang is shit, as I try to adopt the 'substance over style' approach.

            The spell checker I find now, if I go into edit, is so littered with those terms for a space @&sb sort of thing, which get underlined in red, that I can't see any wrong spellings. That's my moan. Also if anyone wants to know how to get rid of unwanted links in pasted material I have found a way. But I am in Firefox and am told that I should be updating. So maybe it's only me.

      • Gabby 12.1.2
        10 June 2019 at 11:28 pm

        Is that… what ha…ppened to your punctuation katty…

  13. Eco maori 13
    11 June 2019 at 8:25 am

    Kia ora The Am Show.

    Its cool that Canada has banned single use plastic bags and cutlery by 2021 .I will write a post on Canadas indigenous people today.

    I agree there is a huge gap in the rural and provincial NZ I say a cottage industry set up around our Marae.

    Its very good that New Zealand is pulling our troops out of Iraq.

    I try not to use cash as for me when I use cash I spend to much.

    48 % is not the Majority of people like the other person said the people need to be informed of the TRUTH about weed so people can make good informed decision & discussion on weed.

    With what happened in Murrupara its because there are no jobs that's why I have been advocating for Marae based cottage industry's and other ways for people to earn a income the forestry industry is not delivering what was promised to the East Coast. Consist Mahi is good for the Wairua. If te tangata tried to get mahi in town there are no whare/houses

    Happy birthday young fella Mark that looks like a nice cake.

    Ka kite ano

  14. Eco maori 14
    11 June 2019 at 12:06 pm

    It's sad to see Louis the last Canadian tangata whenua /people of the land coders in world war 2 pass it even sadder than him and his pears didn't get recognized for the great contribution they made that helped shape our society today.

    Condolences to his whanau/family for their losses.

    Last of the Mohawk code talkers dies after finally being hailed a war hero

    Second world war efforts of Louis Levi Oakes and other indigenous peoples stayed secret coders.

    Louis Levi Oakes

    In the dense jungle battlefields of the south Pacific, Louis Levi Oakes was a target. Often flanked by bodyguards as he carried a large field pack with a tangle of transmission lines, the men surrounding Oakes were assigned to protect a valuable asset – his language

    A Mohawk soldier from a territory straddling the US and Canada, Oakes was the last surviving member of a secretive group of second world war soldiers who used their native language to confound and frustrate enemy forces.

    On 28 May he died at his home, surrounded by family. He was 94.

    Known as the Mohawk code talkers, Oakes and 16 others from the Mohawk nation of Akwesasne were part of a broader – but clandestine – facet of the allied war effort. Because critical communications were vulnerable to interception, the military recruited indigenous speakers to transmit sensitive messages. As many as 500 speakers of indigenous languages were recruited into the US military to work as code talkers, including Navajo, Tlingit, Lakota, Meskwaki, Cree and Comanche, all of whom were sworn to secrecy.

    The code they used, drawn from 33 different languages, confused both the Germans and Japanese, who failed to break the code.

    But the classified nature of their work kept Oakes and others silent for generations ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/03/last-of-mohawk-code-talkers-dies-after-finally-hailed-war-hero

  15. Eco maori 15
    11 June 2019 at 1:47 pm

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/5Yj4j_lZMBo

  16. Eco maori 16
    11 June 2019 at 4:48 pm

    Its good to see the next generation are treating ALCOHOL like it should be. Take with caution better still don't take at all.

    Alcohol causes many problems to our society the people in glass houses throw stones at other natural relaxation thing meanwhile they ignore the problem associated with their relaxation of choice. The one giving to us from God doesn't do no we near a much damage to our society's as Alcohol.

    People are sick of drinking. Investors are betting on the 'sober curious

    hey are part of larger trend. People are paying greater attention to their mental health and wellness, and many Americans are specifically looking to reduce their alcohol intake. People of all ages are drinking less beer, while millennials are drinking less overall. And Silicon Valley is taking note, with tech companies reevaluating their alcohol policies and investors looking to capitalize on people who prefer not to drink.

    "It's such a part of the culture, especially here in San Francisco that I would go out for dinner and have two to three drinks everyday," Silicon Valley entrepreneur Justin Kan, the CEO of law-tech startup Atrium, told CNN Business. He said he has seen a shift recently within his tech circle. "I was at a dinner with a lot of tech people last night and probably half the people weren't drinking."

    Kan announced last month, in a post on Twitter, that he was giving up alcohol. He called drinking an unhealthy habit that had gotten in the way of his experiencing life. It wasn't exactly unusual for Kan to share personal details about himself: He once livestreamed his life through the startup he co-founded in 2007 called Justin.tv, which ultimately became Twitch, the popular live streaming platform for gamers now owned by Amazon.

    The same day he tweeted, Kan launched a group on chat app Telegram to connect with others who were similarly deciding to get sober from alcohol. He didn't expect that more than 1,000 people would join ka kite ano link below.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/08/tech/alcohol-alternative-sober-curious/index.html

  17. Eco maori 17
    11 June 2019 at 6:30 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    ,,I ,, Our young men need to learn to respect our Wahine.

    The Americas Cup will put Aotearoa on the Papatuanuku map .

    All the up grades to the Auckland harbor will ad value to the waterfront and a legacy.

    Costco welcome to Aotearoa the duopoly of our super markets have been creaming people for way too long $60 to join the club is not to much to pay to access the shop ka pai.

    I don't think Grant Robinson should step down from his Minister of finance national is just spraying wai into tawhirimate.

    That guy in Australia who ran over and killed 6 people in a shopping mall looks like the police miss a the sign of his irrational behavior .

    Ka kite ano

  18. Eco maori 18
    11 June 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia ora te ao Maori news.

    Yes with AirNew Zealand accepting ta moko shows that the world is starting to learn how great tangata whenua O Aotearoa cultural Art is ka pai.

    I think Orange tamariki should keep the mokopuna with the mother for the first six months at least the number of tamariki being up lifted is a shame it is cool that our government has invested more money into helping the vaunrable people of all cultures but Maori and Pacific tamariki end up in sips the most.

    Our Maori Wardens do a great job in our community's ka pai

    It is very cool that our government is investigating our climate change risk so that we can mitigate a plan for the future changes advancing fast to our environment.

    Thanks to the Auckland council for putting climate change in all their plans for the community developments

    Ka kite ano

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.