Open mike 10/06/2024

67 comments on “Open mike 10/06/2024 ”

• Comment on post

1. bwaghorn 1

   10 June 2024 at 7:11 am

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350304814/loan-sharks-extinct-impacts-labours-crackdown-revealed

   Take a bow Labour

   Reply
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1

     10 June 2024 at 8:01 am

     For sure ! Quite a few have a real hate-on for Labour, even on the Standard.

     Darien Fenton, had a long list Labours achievements on here , as did Mickey Savage and Louis…..

     Reply
2. Adrian 2

   10 June 2024 at 7:40 am

   Brilliant policy, well done Labour.

   Reply
3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3

   10 June 2024 at 8:17 am

   We who already knew, or know now, how ACT engender fear in the General Public…. but seemingly its embedded within as well.

   ACT leader David Seymour brushes off claims party has a 'culture of fear'

   The reports said sources close to the party accused its campaign leadership of creating a "culture of fear".

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/519090/act-leader-david-seymour-brushes-off-claims-party-has-a-culture-of-fear

   And the "change makers" ? 15 % ? Paul.. Henry ?! wtf….

   The keynote speech was delivered by former Breakfast host Paul Henry, who stood as a candidate for National in 1999 but cast his 2023 votes for ACT.

   "I believe that ACT could be the last cab left on the rank heading in the right direction," he said.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/519067/david-seymour-sets-2026-election-target-of-15-percent

   Never had any time for Paul ..Henry. IMO the fuckwits.. fuckwit.

   Well suited to ACT !

   Reply
   • Obtrectator 3.1

     10 June 2024 at 11:31 am

     Only puzzle there is why it took the puerile little tick so long.

     Reply
4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4

   10 June 2024 at 8:36 am

   Fark..is this a worry ? fascist rise ?

   France's President Macron calls for new elections in wake of EU poll results

   Exit polls show a historic win for Marine Le Pen's National Rally in France, which is on course to trounce Emmanuel Macron's party.

   And more far right ?

   German, French far-right gains offer signs of shifting tone in EU Parliament vote

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/519104/german-french-far-right-gains-offer-signs-of-shifting-tone-in-eu-parliament-vote

   Our World does not need more far right fascists !

   Reply
   • Belladonna 4.1

     10 June 2024 at 9:06 am

     Seems to be a fairly wide trend in EU politics. The Scandinavian countries are also seeing the rise in far right parties.

     https://nordics.info/show/artikel/populism-and-the-growth-of-the-radical-right-in-the-nordic-countries

     Note, this isn't a sudden change – it's been building for at least a decade. Le Pen's party scored 8% of the vote (in one electorate) in 2004, up to 31% (reportedly) in the most recent EU election.

     Le Pen made a serious and credible challenge to the presidency in 2022 – and has continued to build support. Macron looks, much like Sunak in Britain, as though he's desperately gambling that the result will be better now (even if he loses), than if he waits.

     Reply
     • Kay 4.1.1

       10 June 2024 at 10:19 am

       Far-right parties are not the preferred option – or even second choice – for younger voters everywhere in Europe, analysts caution. The trend appears strongest in countries such as Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark.

       https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/younger-voters-far-right-europe

       I was only talking about this topic with a Danish friend just last night, who, despite having lived there for decades, is still a Canadian citizen and unable to vote, but hold very firm beliefs politically. She is adamant the swing to the far right boils down to one thing- immigration, particularly immigrants who lessen the homogeny of the country. Just one anecdotal story of course, but it seems consistent with the articles written.

       It doesn't help that the person arrested for attacking the Danish PM is from Poland, despite it probably not being political.

       https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11kyj11vjo

       Reply
       • Belladonna 4.1.1.1

         10 June 2024 at 10:47 am

         In the recent EU elections in Germany the far right party (despite being plagued with scandals) – increased their vote from the younger age group (Alternative for Germany AfD)

         The AfD gained ground among younger voters, up 12 percentage points to 17% among 16-24 year olds, tying with the conservatives for most popular party in that age group, and in the former Communist East.

         https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-far-right-makes-strong-gains-eu-vote-despite-scandals-2024-06-09/

         In France – there is also growing support for Le Pen’s RN from the younger voters.

         “Polls show that French young people aged 18 – 29 are likely to massively abstain in the European ballot but, when they do vote, it is primarily for Le Pen.”

         https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/07/french-election-you-can-feel-a-shift-far-right-propaganda-is-gaining-ground-will-the-french-be-lured-by-le-pen

         Of course, they're not all voting far right – but increased numbers of them are — and they come from the Thunberg generation – who are alleged to be more concerned with climate change than the Boomers.

         I doubt that immigration is the only factor. Although the lack of integration of immigrants into their new home country has been a cause of concern for decades. The general Euro-skeptic umbrella covers a much wider set of issues.
         From the above Guardian article:

         “The sociologist Félicien Faury recently published Ordinary Voters, an in-depth study of the reasons behind a rapidly normalising far-right vote. “There are always two main motivations,” he said. “First is the question of the cost of living, and more broadly, economic security. Then there is the question of a rejection of immigrants and immigration. And broader than that is a rejection of, and hostility towards, racial minorities.””

         Perhaps Brexit was a harbinger, rather than an outlier.

         Reply
   • Subliminal 4.2

     10 June 2024 at 9:22 am

     In NZ we are still in the happy position whereby two political parties still have a very strong connection with social justice. Many critics of the NZ Greens continually whine about their equal concerns with social justice as well as environmental justice and indigenous rights. It is these three prongs together which give a superstructure resistant to far right takeover. We even have a co leader vocal in support of indigenous rights in Palestine.

     Germany is an example of what occurs when the choice of social justice is removed. The Greens there have totally abandoned social justice. When there is no support for social justice anywhere in the political system, fascism will rise as the only potential alternative.

     Green German foreign minister Annalena Baerbock has completely abandoned any pretence of social justice and we can see this in her complete subordination to Israeli propaganda.

     Baerbock was speaking at a so-called Democracy Festival in Berlin, celebrating the 75th anniversary of the federal republic’s constitution, when she was confronted by citizens protesting the government’s support for Israel’s genocide in Gaza.

     Trying to justify Germany’s complicity, Baerbock hit back with a dose of atrocity propaganda, claiming she had seen the nonexistent rape tape during one of her at least seven visits to Israel since 7 October 2023.

     “I was shown the film, which was not recorded by me or the Israeli government but by Hamas fighters with their, what are they called, GoPro cameras on their helmets,” Baerbock asserted.

     “And do you know what I saw there? It was the worst thing you can imagine,” the foreign minister claimed. “I watched it because I wanted to know, because I wanted to know what happened there. And to see a woman being raped on camera.”

     Thats seven trips to Israel since the start of the Israeli genocide on Palestinians. She claims to have seen actual video footage. Strangely though, this footage does not exist.

     Since Israel began propagating the 7 October mass rape hoax, at no point has any official Israeli source claimed that a video exists of any rape in progress.

     This was confirmed in an article in Haaretz last month.

     “From inquiries put to three bodies in the defense establishment by Haaretz, it emerges that the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists’ body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves,” the Tel Aviv newspaper stated.

     Thank goodness for the absolute dedication of the NZ Greens for social justice and indigenous rights and the acknowledgement that all three must be present for any coherent plan on the environment and climate. It is only this kind of politics that will hold out against fascism. As long as the Green party exists in NZ, the far right will not be able to say to the electorate, "You've tried everything else to no avail, now it's time to try us"

     https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/german-foreign-minister-says-she-saw-nonexistent-7-oct-rape-video

     Reply
     • Belladonna 4.2.1

       10 June 2024 at 10:32 am

       This seems entirely counter-intuitive

       Germany is an example of what occurs when the choice of social justice is removed. The Greens there have totally abandoned social justice. When there is no support for social justice anywhere in the political system, fascism will rise as the only potential alternative.

       Really? You are claiming that without a social justice alternative, people are motivated to vote for fascism. It seems a highly dubious argument.

       Lets look at France as a counter example to Germany. There the Green party (Europe Ecologie Les Verts (EELV) certainly has a very strong social justice agenda.

       EELV leaders believe the Socialist Party is in its death throes, and they are ready to replace it with a pro-Europe, pro-social justice movement.

       https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/the-radicality-paradox-of-the-french-greens/

       France is also home to the radical right in the Le Pen Rassemblement National Party.

       The one which has just surged to a historically high win in the EU elections, at the same time the EELV has crashed to a historic low 5% – halving their representation).

       Social justice doesn't seem to matter much to the electorate – if you look at these results.

       In reality – I think that what we are seeing here is exactly the same thing we are seeing in the UK – and we saw here in 2023. Incumbent parties being 'punished' for Covid and the consequent economic strife. Unfair perhaps. But it's not something new, historically.

       Reply
       • Subliminal 4.2.1.1

         10 June 2024 at 10:53 am

         The UK is another example of what happens with real choice. People are flocking to independent candidates since there is little to no difference between Labour and Conservative. Both are cheerleaders for genocide and war

         Reply
         • Belladonna 4.2.1.1.1

           10 June 2024 at 11:21 am

           Do you have some evidence for this at a national level?
           The poll results so far seem to show little change for any parties except Labour & Conservatives (swapping popularity). There's been a slight up-tick for the Reform Party (Farage) – but you could hardly regard him as a cheerleader for international peace.

           https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-68079726

           Reply
           • tWig 4.2.1.1.1.1

             10 June 2024 at 4:08 pm

             There is a strong UK movement of tactical voting to remove tories from power in a FPTP system.

             "Tactical Vote (#TacticalVote) … is a progressive grassroots campaign that encourages the British electorate to vote tactically in the general election in order to kick the Tories out of government. We’re encouraging the millions of voters who voted for progressive parties in 2019 to use your vote tactically this time around by uniting with, and voting for, the progressive candidate in your constituency who has the best chance to defeat the local Tory candidate.

             We’re asking you to put party loyalties to one side and focus on the bigger picture and the consequences of five more years of a Tory government in Britain."

             They had success in several regions in the local body elections. Some parts of the tactical voting movement are only endorsing candidates who commit to proportional representation.

             Reply
             • Belladonna …

               10 June 2024 at 7:44 pm

               There is a strong UK movement of tactical voting to remove tories from power in a FPTP system.

               It hardly seems necessary. The Conservatives are tanking big time in the polls – overwhelmingly to the benefit of Labour.

               Still waiting for any evidence that people in the UK are voting for Independents, at a national level, in any significant numbers.

               The OP quote:

               People are flocking to independent candidates since there is little to no difference between Labour and Conservative.

               Reply
             • tWig …

               11 June 2024 at 8:45 am

               But a Conservative candidate can slip and win if the opposing vote splits between Labour and LibDems.

               Reply
               • Michael P …

                 12 June 2024 at 12:20 am

                 Labour is consistently 20 points ahead in the polls. Pretty much impossible for them not to win by a large margin

                 Reply
         • aj 4.2.1.1.2

           10 June 2024 at 8:39 pm

           Re the rise of the right. Tweedledee and tweedledum parties have lost the trust of the people, handing it to the extreme right. For decades policies have been neoliberal, common people are neglected, this is what we get.

           Reply
           • Belladonna 4.2.1.1.2.1

             10 June 2024 at 10:32 pm

             Assuming that your argument that neoliberalism has resulted in a loss of trust from the people, is correct. It doesn't explain why the people would vote hard right, rather than hard left.

             Or are you arguing that the neoliberalism has smeared all left-wing parties, but not all right-wing ones?

             Reply
             • aj …

               11 June 2024 at 7:35 pm

               The fringe RW parties are fare better funded, far noisier, and pander to prejudice and bigotry. This panders to the worst side of human nature. The hard right wins every time at this game.

               Reply
               • Belladonna …

                 11 June 2024 at 8:06 pm

                 You don't think much of the intelligence of the electorate, do you.
                 That pesky democracy, it results in people voting for parties you don't approve of….

                 If you don't think that the hard left have been extremely politically noisy in Europe, I don't know what would persuade you.

                 Reply
         • Michael P 4.2.1.1.3

           12 June 2024 at 12:18 am

           "The UK is another example of what happens with real choice."

           ?? The UK is FPP so no real choice at all. The government will be either Labour or Conservative and pretty much guaranteed will be Labour this year.

           Reply
     • Bearded Git 4.2.2

       10 June 2024 at 6:35 pm

       Well said Subliminal +100

       Reply
5. dv 5

   10 June 2024 at 9:56 am

   Nat mp!!!! Surprize

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350304545/nz-politics-live-national-mp-tim-costley-rents-back-his-wellington-flat

   • Ōtaki MP Tim Costley, hwo lives just 58km from Parliament, is claiming a $36,400 housing allowance for a Wellington apartment that he owns

   Reply
   • Belladonna 5.1

     10 June 2024 at 10:16 am

     Seems like a widespread practice across many parties.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300266741/parliament-lets-mps-rent-property-from-themselves-at-the-taxpayers-expense

     Really don't think that there is any additional cost to the taxpayer from this. Whether he rents from himself, or rents from another landlord – the cost is the same.

     Reply
     • bwaghorn 5.1.1

       10 June 2024 at 12:23 pm

       Yeah but 58 kms from his house ffs? That has the best new significant road going to travel on

       Reply
       • David 5.1.1.1

         10 June 2024 at 12:40 pm

         MP’s do work long hours. When parliament is in session, they can be sitting until late in the evening, and then they start early in the morning. All MP’s, even Wellington based, should have accommodation close by, paid for by the state.

         Reply
         • bwaghorn 5.1.1.1.1

           10 June 2024 at 4:29 pm

           A trucky turned up at my place at 4 am this morning, he live 50 minutes away, if he's got a full day which he would during peak season he'd still be out there , alot of them sleep in there trucks , so cry me a river.

           Reply
           • Belladonna 5.1.1.1.1.1

             10 June 2024 at 10:46 pm

             Yes, wealthy people (in which category all MPs fall, simply by virtue of their salary) have more options than poor ones.

             I'm not too keen on Arena Williams flying her kids down to see her in Wellington a couple of times a month. Parliament only sits 3 days a week – and she flies home after the sitting closes. She's a backbencher – and doesn't even seem to be on any select committees – so is hardly overwhelmed with work which would keep her in Wellington.

             https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/518118/lobby-group-questions-mps-expenses-amid-cost-of-living-pressures

             She also is one of the MPs who claim back the expenses on owned property in Wellington (or, at least, she did so last year – and it seems unlikely that things have changed)

             https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350088591/more-20-mps-rent-back-their-own-homes-taxpayers-expense

             But, it's all allowed under the 'rules' ….

             I'd certainly be in favour of MP's expenses being tightened up in a whole lot of ways.

             But any moves in that direction seem almost certain to be sunk by the vested interests in National and Labour.

             Reply
         • Michael P 5.1.1.1.2

           12 June 2024 at 12:33 am

           Yes and their far far too high salaries could be decreased by the amount that taxpayers pay for the accommodation maybe??

           $160,000 plus all of the allowances and benefits they get for a back bench list MP puts them in the top 2% of salary and wage earners. It is ridiculously high for such a small country and when compared with other jobs in NZ. Also for a job with such low responsibility and low qualifications, skills and experience requirements.

           Reply
   • Kay 5.2

     10 June 2024 at 10:35 am

     Poor and low paid workers are frequently forced (or told to) move that distance or more away from where the jobs are, if they can't afford the rent locally.

     When rents get really unaffordable, people are made homeless. Rising rents also force households to go without other essential items, such as healthy food and heating. Unaffordable rent can make families move often in search of a more affordable home, unsettling community connections and children’s education. High rents can push people to move further away from their jobs and places of education, increasing commuting time and making it inconvenient for people to walk, cycle, or use public transport. They can disrupt established neighbourhoods and communities, leading to gentrification.

     https://www.greens.org.nz/the_problem_unaffordable_rents

     So I don't really care how 'entitled' poor Tim Costly is, when he's happy to vote for the poor getting poorer.

     Reply
   • Obtrectator 5.3

     10 June 2024 at 11:19 am

     They're all at it, from either end of the political spectrum. Go to that Stuff link, click on the "read more" button, read that to the end, and you'll see.

     Mr C is our local MP and despite his being of the wrong party I'd thought he was shaping pretty well. His column in the local weekly is refreshingly free of party-politicking (unlike his Nat predecessor, whose writings were largely unreadable because of it). This revelation is a distinct disappointment.

     Reply
   • Jimmy 5.4

     11 June 2024 at 8:49 am

     If he is allowed to claim it and is within the rules, what's the big deal?

     Kierran McNulty also does it and I'm sure many other do too. I have no issue as long as they go by the rules.

     NZ politics live: Labour’s Kieran McAnulty claims housing perk to live in his wife's apartment | Stuff

     Reply
6. aj 6

   10 June 2024 at 10:29 am

   "Too much empathy" Probably be naïve to think it's not happening here.

   Three Algorithms in a Room

   "A growing number of industries are using software to fix prices. Law enforcers are beginning to fight back"

   https://prospect.org/economy/2024-06-05-three-algorithms-in-a-room/

   Roper took a very unsentimental approach to the business of property management, where he saw irrational human behavior driving inefficiencies. According to Roper, landlords had “too much empathy,” which prevented them from raising rent as high as they could. As Roper once put it, “If you have idiots undervaluing, it costs the whole system.”

   He went about rectifying that by deposing the human agents who controlled pricing, and instead introducing algorithms that could make less emotional decisions.

   In its own words, RealPage promises to “maximize profits” with the ability to “achieve … revenue lift between 3 percent to 7 percent,” even in economic downturns. There should be no doubt that RealPage does so by consistently pushing rent increases, according to testimony from clients in several recent lawsuits. RealPage, according to one lawsuit, told clients that the data they shared would never be used “to undercut RealPage’s higher prices—doing so for too long would mean losing access to RealPage.”

   Reply
7. Obtrectator 7

   10 June 2024 at 11:24 am

   Anyone else see Swarbrick vs Jones on TV1's Breakfast this morning? No contest. Chloe's hard facts against Shane's emotive logorrhea and refusal to answer any of the valid points being made.

   Reply
   • Barfly 7.1

     10 June 2024 at 3:31 pm

     Jones spoke mostly in slogans – does NZ have a political niche for this Trump wanna-be?

     Reply
8. Jimmy 8

   10 June 2024 at 12:39 pm

   This is terrible. Another child senselessly murdered. And yet we are still waiting for justice for baby Ru!

   Oranga Tamariki, police continue investigation into ‘violent’ death of Te Kūiti baby – NZ Herald

   Reply
   • Michael Scott 8.1

     10 June 2024 at 2:37 pm

     These murders can't be blamed on colonisation or poverty. They are a choice that is made.

     One child dies every 5 weeks on average at the hands of their caregiver.

     If those charged in these cases choose to remain silent every adult in the house should be charged with manslaughter.

     Reply
     • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1

       10 June 2024 at 5:15 pm

       If those charged in these cases choose to remain silent every adult in the house should be charged with manslaughter.

       Not Good Enough. Charge every adult in Te Kūiti – it takes a village to raise a child.

       "The Government cannot do this on its own. But the sooner we can get in and work with these families the better chance we have of preventing a child getting hurt. It truly does take a village to raise a child – the community, neighbours, non-government organisations and iwi all have an important role to play."
       – Anne Tolley
       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/61-little-names-on-new-zealands-roll-of-dishonour/3GY3HSKEESCRAGD7VU4YEIL5I4/

       It Takes a Village to Raise a Child: Understanding and Expanding the Concept of the “Village” [11 March 2022]
       Globally, many families face multiple adversities. These advertises may include mental illness, substance use and addiction problems, physical illness, domestic and community violence, poverty, insecure housing and war. Moreover, many of these problems are accumulative, with one problem, for example, parental mental illness, cascading into other problems, such as relationship breakdowns, unemployment and poverty. Preventing and mitigating the impact of these problems on parents and children is critical for improving population health for families now and in the future. However, no one sector or organization is in a position to address all the issues that these families may face. Hence, it is proposed that a “village approach” is needed when bringing up children.

       And a local farmer who once dabbled in politics made these perceptive comments.

       In 2021 he stated that the modern National Party should reimagine capitalism because social inequality was causing division, saying free market capitalism is "on the verge of destroying the planet and destabilising society".
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bolger#Life_after_politics

       Latest official child poverty measures: 2022/23
       (February 2024; updated 28 April)
       When I originally concluded this year’s update to the child poverty statistics on March 19th, I hoped that data collection and, therefore, research on social issues would remain protected. Quality data is the cornerstone of informed policy-making. However, only a little over a month later, we witnessed the scrapping and fund withdrawal from critical longitudinal studies, Living In Aotearoa (Walters, 2024) and Growing Up in New Zealand (Gerritsen, 2024) , that would provide critical insights into child poverty. The (financial) dismantling of these vital studies debilitates the capacity to generate evidence-based and actionable policy recommendations and assist the Government in achieving its short- and long-term goals, such as school attendance, education outcomes, child poverty reduction, and improvement to people’s overall well-being (Rashbrooke, 2024; RNZ, 2023; also see GUiNZ’s research outputs to see the amount of insights that are generated from this longitudinal study).
       https://www.cpag.org.nz/statistics/0auujx6l0f6e7fm103bmkksm2n11p5

       Reply
       • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.1

         10 June 2024 at 5:29 pm

         Apologies for all that bold text at the end – only this headline should be in bold:

         Latest official child poverty measures: 2022/23

         Reply
         • Belladonna 8.1.1.1.1

           10 June 2024 at 7:49 pm

           Not Good Enough. Charge every adult in Te Kūiti – it takes a village to raise a child.

           But, apparently, it doesn't take a Village to murder one. That is entirely in the hands of the people who carried out the relentless assaults, and those who were criminally complicit in their silence, but who knew, all too well, what was going on.

           Reply
           • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.1.1.1

             10 June 2024 at 8:42 pm

             But, apparently, it doesn't take a Village to murder one.

             Absolutely B – there but for the grace of god go you or I eh – makes one think.

             The house that built Jack [8 May 2012]
             "Thank you, Jack, for also showing us exactly why we, and all of New Zealand, should make what he represented that night on our doorstep our problem and reach out. Love you always.

             "PS: That old saying is right: It takes a village to raise a child. We all need to be there for these children in our community.

             "We can't sit in our cosy homes and tut tut and complain about this child abuse and neglect if we're not going to show them that we have had enough.

             "By taking an interest. By speaking out. And by opening our homes and our hearts to these children."

             https://practice.orangatamariki.govt.nz/our-work/assessment-and-planning/assessments/specialist-topics/working-effectively-with-families-impacted-by-violence/

             It’s basic parenting

             So what makes them different from their peers? A good place to look for answers is within ram-raid offending, because it is one area that has been more deeply analysed after becoming a political issue.

             A police study in 2022 identified 79 of the worst young ram-raiders from an examination of thousands of charges laid.

             It found they all came from unstable, impoverished households with poor parenting and inconsistent role models, where they had been victims or witnesses of family violence.

             They all had “poor or non-existent” engagement with school, lived in social circles where offending was normalised, and began offending between the ages of 12 and 14.

             They all had fathers who were engaged with the criminal justice system, either as frequent offenders or spending time in prison.

             Police said this was in line with previous studies which showed that young offenders have typically suffered abuse and neglect, came from impoverished families and had left or been stood down from school.

             Lambie said evidence suggested further improvements in youth justice required a “developmental crime prevention” focus, which meant focusing on early intervention.

             People with therapeutic expertise should work alongside cultural groups, NGOs and schools to help children at risk and their families.

             “What we need is people in the homes teaching these people, these parents, not to bash their kids, not to yell at their kids, how to love their kids,” he said.

             “It’s basic parenting stuff.”

             https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506490/youth-crime-and-justice-court-and-prison-less-likely-for-new-generations-of-youth

             Reply
             • Belladonna …

               10 June 2024 at 10:23 pm

               Maybe, there but for the grace of God, go you.
               I cannot envisage any level of circumstance which would result in me abusing a child at all – let alone murdering my own children.

               And, there are countless families where an adult has suffered abuse – and has been resolutely determined that their kids will never experience the same thing.

               Note: I'm not equating kids off the rails as ram raiders – with the kind of utterly self-centred parenting fail that results in murdered babies.

               Reply
               • Drowsy M. Kram …

                 11 June 2024 at 10:00 am

                 Imho, Jimmy @8 ("terrible"; "senselessly murdered"; "justice for baby Ru!") was wallowing in it, and M Scott @8.1 led with the all-important "These murders can't be blamed on colonisation or poverty." Cannot, or must not?

                 I cannot envisage any level of circumstance which would result in me abusing a child at all – let alone murdering my own children.

                 Whereas I can envisage upbringing/circumstance combos that might sow an "utterly self-centred parenting fail" in infants (not the 'me' I am now, obviously) – this despite my limited familiarity with the (origins of) risk factors for child abuse, and only a sketchy understanding of why they are risk factors.

                 https://www.childmatters.org.nz/insights/risk-factors/

                 https://teara.govt.nz/en/child-abuse/page-5

                 The Homicide Report [released 13 May 2019]

                 • Every 8th homicide victim in New Zealand from 2004 to 31 March 2019 was a child
                 • More than two thirds of the victims were aged 2 or under
                 • Of the cases where the killer's relationship to the victim was known, 27% were mothers, 24% were fathers, and 17% were de facto partners.

                 Richie Poulton: The Final Interview | 1News' John Campbell [3 Oct 2023; 17 minute YouTube video]
                 "You can’t really undo what happens in childhood. So the experience of intense, or regular poverty situation, of circumstances, is long lasting." – Poulton

                 In line with the "nature loads the gun, nurture pulls the trigger" hypothesis, Poulton mentioned briefly that the biggest thing the study had taught him was that the childhood experience of poverty is extremely problematic, potentially pulling many triggers. It is hard not to believe that many of our social problems would in large part wash away in a couple of generations if we effectively ended poverty. Instead I have to listen to Mark Mitchell wanting to get tough on crime. Depressing.
                 https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-10-2023/#comment-1970546

                 Maybe former Social Development Minister Anne Tolley was on to something when she said "It truly does take a village to raise a child." But imagine the 'inconvenience'.

                 And, there are countless families where an adult has suffered abuse – and has been resolutely determined that their kids will never experience the same thing.

                 Abuse was/is prevalent, so being "resolutely determined" sounds wonderful. Are victims of abuse less or more likely to abuse children?

                 Studies such as the Growing Up in New Zealand project yield evidence-based answers. "This longitudinal study is tracking 7000 children from birth to young adulthood, to provide information about what shapes early development and how interventions might be targeted to give every child the best start in life."

                 Government funding ends for 15-year long Growing Up in New Zealand project [5 April 2024]
                 It was not the first time the study has had funding problems.

                 The National government reduced its funding by $2m so it could work with only 2000 children, but the incoming Labour-New Zealand First government reversed that decision in 2018.

                 The current uncertainty over funding for the study comes amid wider fears about science funding.

                 Renee Liang, a consultant paediatrician based in Auckland, with a special research interest in child health and development, is/was an investigator on the project, and wrote this perceptive essay.

                 Why poverty in New Zealand is everyone’s concern
                 Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”

                 A Kete Half Empty
                 Poverty is your problem, it is everyone’s problem, not just those who are in poverty. – Rebecca, a child from Te Puru
                 …
                 New Zealanders still cling to the idea that we’re an egalitarian, classless society. The reality is we’re increasingly stratified. The gap between rich and poor is wider than we like to admit and it’s possible – depending on where you live and work – to avoid seeing poor families. This may be why some deny the existence, let alone the impact, of child poverty in our country.

                 It's also possible to avoid seeing child abuse – except in the MSM.

                 In 2021 he stated that the modern National Party should reimagine capitalism because social inequality was causing division, saying free market capitalism is "on the verge of destroying the planet and destabilising society".
                 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bolger#Life_after_politics

                 Reply
                 • Belladonna …

                   11 June 2024 at 8:14 pm

                   Poverty doesn't make people kill their babies.
                   Thousands of poor families have loving parents who put their kids first every time.

                   These are not the families who are appearing the child abuse statistics. These are not the families who are beating their kids to death.

                   Reply
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     11 June 2024 at 10:10 pm

                     Poverty doesn't make people kill their babies.
                     Thousands of poor families have loving parents who put their kids first every time.

                     The vast majority of people/parents, loving or otherwise, don't kill (their) babies, but consensus expert opinion has it that poverty is a risk factor for child abuse, i.e. the experience/circumstance of poverty, from infancy to parenthood, can be a contributing factor, thousands of poor, loving parents notwithstanding.

                     Tbh, it's a mystery to me why it is so important for you to believe that poverty isn't a risk factor for child abuse – it makes no sense (to me). Child abuse doesn't occur in a vacuum.

                     Contributing factors to child abuse and neglect
                     Possible societal contributing factors
                     There are many deeply rooted, complicated, and interrelated societal factors that can contribute to child abuse and neglect. While we cannot list them all here, the following two factors are often identified as increasing the likelihood that child abuse and neglect will occur.
                     – Stresses of poverty
                     – Community violence

                     "You can’t really undo what happens in childhood. So the experience of intense, or regular poverty situation, of circumstances, is long lasting." – Poulton

                     Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”

                     Risk Factors of Child Abuse
                     Parental Factors:
                     – Parent has a background of abuse when growing up

                     Environmental Factors:
                     – Overcrowding in the house
                     – Poverty or lack of opportunity to improve the family’s resources
                     – Family violence is present
                     – A non-biological adult living in the house
                     – Family is experiencing multiple stresses
                 • Belladonna …

                   11 June 2024 at 10:33 pm

                   Tbh, it's a mystery to me why it is so important for you to believe that poverty isn't a risk factor for child abuse – it makes no sense (to me). Child abuse doesn't occur in a vacuum.

                   TBH, it's a mystery to me why it's so important for you to believe that poverty is the greatest risk factor for people killing babies.

                   I can flat out guarantee that the majority of poor people don't kill their kids (you've admitted it yourself), so there has to be at least one other factor which is causing this.

                   And the fact, that at least half of the kids killed in NZ had a record with OT – indicates that the agency knows exactly which families have babies at greatest risk. But aren't prepared to do anything about it.

                   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300998907/57-kids-in-seven-years-our-shocking-child-death-toll

                   Winning Lotto stops you being poor, it doesn't make you a good parent.

                   Reply
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     11 June 2024 at 11:10 pm

                     TBH, it's a mystery to me why it's so important for you to believe that poverty is the greatest risk factor for people killing babies.

                     Really B, there’s no need to resort to bad faith arguments – I think you know I haven’t asserted "that poverty is the greatest risk factor for people killing babies" – that's something you wrote half an hour ago. I do, however, believe and agree with the consensus expert opinion that poverty is a risk factor for child abuse.

                     I can flat out guarantee that the majority of poor people don't kill their kids (you've admitted it yourself), so there has to be at least one other factor which is causing this.

                     Not following your logic, but "at least one other factor" suggests that you might be coming around to the consensus expert opinion that poverty is a risk factor for child abuse, and that's progress.

                     Winning Lotto stops you being poor, it doesn't make you a good parent.

                     Sorry, you've lost me there – perhaps due to a misperception about the longitudinal effects of various contributing factors.

                     "You can’t really undo what happens in childhood. So the experience of intense, or regular poverty situation, of circumstances, is long lasting." – Poulton

                     Liang describes poverty as a “heritable condition” that perpetuates and amplifies through generations: “It is also not hard to see how individual poverty flows into communities and society, with downstream effects on economics, crime and health, as well as many other systems. Loosen one strand and everything else unravels.”
         • Incognito 8.1.1.1.2

           10 June 2024 at 9:16 pm

           fixed

           Reply
           • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.1.2.1

             10 June 2024 at 10:11 pm

             Thank you.

             Reply
       • Michael P 8.1.1.2

         12 June 2024 at 12:40 am

         "it takes a village to raise a child…"

         Rubbish. It takes at least one and preferably two loving parents (or caregivers).

         Reply
         • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.2.1

           12 June 2024 at 11:00 am

           Love and limits
           Parents have many hopes and dreams for their children’s futures. These might include getting on well with others and having friends; doing well at school; getting a good job; being able to cope with life’s challenges; contributing to the community; being a good parent; and, being mentally and physically healthy. The options are endless.

           It takes at least one and preferably two loving parents (or caregivers).

           Such ideal circumstances are probably the norm, although love can also be stretched thin by circumstance – if it's stretched to breaking point, that's when extended family and friends (a personal parenting support network), or even wider support (the 'village'), may be of value – at least in my experience.

           Some people are inadequate parents, either temporarily/episodically or permanently. Doesn't necessarily mean they don't love their children, but something within them or their formative experiences compromises their parenting.

           I'd prefer not to "Rubbish" the (inconvenient?) idea that 'it takes a village to raise a child', but we can agree to disagree – others have.

           It Takes a Village: And Other Lessons Children Teach Us

           It takes a village to raise a nut

           https://fatherandchild.org.nz/magazine/issue-16/booze-bikes-and-babes/

           It takes a village to raise a child with a tracheostomy: Translating principles into practice [2 Oct 2022; USA]
           The study's findings of high anxiety, depression and low self-esteem do not reflect individual frailty but rather fraying of the social fabric and a call to action to improve social support, gender equity and economic security. This reframing of findings motivates efforts towards improving care practices and public policies that ensure families need not ‘go it alone’.

           Parents who experience psychosis: A qualitative exploration
           [13 March 2023; UK]

           Health Professional’s Perspective on the Health and Wellbeing of Children with a Parent or Caregiver in Prison. A Descriptive Qualitative Study [2023; NZ]
           This study is based on a qualitative descriptive analysis of six semi-structured interviews with health professionals who work with children that have had a parent or caregiver in prison. The study identifies two overarching themes of “The child as a whole” and “It takes a village” that participants demonstrated were significant to the overall wellbeing of a child that has a parent or caregiver in prison, concluding with recommendations for clinical application.

           Inequality and parent mental health: A mixed methods study exploring multiple perspectives on the issues impacting, and options to support, parent mental health and wellbeing in the UK
           [2023]
           In conclusion, it is argued that structural factors influencing parent mental health and wellbeing and the role of the ‘village’ in supporting parents needs greater attention, alongside improved and earlier access to support, in order to address mental health and wellbeing at a family level.

           Reply
9. tWig 9

   10 June 2024 at 3:42 pm

   The Leftist Cooks give a quick history of capitalist exploitation and political corruption in Ireland. From 24 min onwards starts into the history.

   How unlimited overseas investment, centralisation and post 2008 privatisation pushed small businesses to fail.

   Reply
10. Ad 10

    10 June 2024 at 4:20 pm

    This could have been New Zealand's political recent alternative history:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-european-election-results-2024-emmanuel-macron-snap-election-marine-le-pen-national-rally-jordan-bardella-national-assembly/

    The hard right rises big, so in December 2022 Ardern could have – as Macron has done today – pushed all chips into the middle and called a snap election.

    Currently the left can claim Mexico, and Brazil, and somewhat Australia. Who knows maybe the UK will get there this time.

    But otherwise the hard right is rising fast right across the world and progressive governments are even rarer than they used to be.

    Reply
    • Belladonna 10.1

      10 June 2024 at 7:51 pm

      Macron and Sunak appear to have the same goal: seeing a free-fall of support on the horizon, they want to limit the damage as much as possible. To 'save the furniture'.
      I doubt that Sunak will have much luck – we'll have to see if Macron was quick enough off the mark.

      Reply
11. Rolling-on-Gravel 11

    10 June 2024 at 5:14 pm

    We need to keep up the momentum for protests.

    Reply
12. Tony Veitch 12

    10 June 2024 at 5:29 pm

    On Checkpoint just now – a cancer patient: At least when I'm on a hearse on the way to the cemetery, I won't bounce over any potholes!

    This gaffe will destroy the CoC!

    Reply
    • aj 12.1

      10 June 2024 at 6:46 pm

      

      Reply
      • aj 12.1.1

        10 June 2024 at 7:18 pm

        And in this interview, Lisa Owen's outlined the number of times Reti has declined to be interviewed since the end of March, I think. He has refused to be interviewed about 6 times – not accepting once. Coward.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018942040/cancer-patient-self-funding-life-extending-treatment

        Reply
        • ianmac 12.1.1.1

          10 June 2024 at 8:04 pm

          Could it be that Reti is disturbed at the COC direction/actions but can't publicly speak out as that would cost him his job. So he is evading the questions.

          I always thought Reti was an honourable man but…

          Reply
13. Sabine 13

    10 June 2024 at 6:19 pm

    Who would have thought that if Govt unleash the worst of the worst on public society, trying to criminalize speech, sexualise kids, create a two tier policing and justice system, essentially decriminaling sexual assault/rape, assault, and 'low level crime', invite rampant illegal migration, not building enough houses, not creating enough jobs, creating rampant inflation, considering war (ukraine) a progressive cause (Macron), witnessing public stabbings almost daily (including police men and border guards) to name just a few things, people would vote for a strongman to get rid of the rubbish.
    It actually is impressive.

    The Greens in Germany are fucked. Entirely fucked, as is the SPD. Dead bodies walking, like zombies.

    • from tweet linked below:

    France: National Rally wins a historic 31.5% of the EU vote, forcing Macron to dissolve the national parliament.

    Germany: AfD surges to become the 2nd largest party, liberal parties tank.

    Belgium: Prime Minister resigns after his crushing defeat against the right.

    Italy: Meloni's Brother of Italy wins in a historic landslide

    Austria: FPÖ doubles their seats and becomes the largest party in the nation.

    Spain: Right beating the left by 10%.

    Luxemburg: First ever seat for ADR.

    https://x.com/afshineemrani/status/1799941950793236879

    Official numbers here

    https://results.elections.europa.eu/en/

    Reply
    • Sabine 13.1

      10 June 2024 at 6:25 pm

      A comment from the same threat.

      https://x.com/ada_lluch/status/1799970613576298753

      “Tonight we took Europe back.

      We got tired of Islam.

      We got tired of feminism.

      We got tired of climate change.

      We got tired of being raped.

      We got tired of squatters.

      We got tired of criminals.

      WE GOT TIRED OF THE LEFT!

      I’ve been telling you, people are waking up!”

      Is really no one reading the room?

      Reply
      • weka 13.1.1

        10 June 2024 at 7:34 pm

        some of us are. But a chunk of the left still seems to think a belief in righteousness is enough, despite evidence to the contrary.

        Reply
      • adam 13.1.2

        10 June 2024 at 8:48 pm

        The west is fucked.

        It slit it's own throat.

        A few left in the Antarctic scratching a living – that's it.

        Reply
14. SPC 14

    10 June 2024 at 6:58 pm

    https://x.com/ada_lluch/status/1678571643822587904

    Reply
15. Vivie 15

    10 June 2024 at 7:09 pm

    National's cynical pre-election promise to fund 13 cancer drugs, then to not fund them in the budget, is discussed in the linked article by Otago University professor and oncologist Christopher Jackson. He explains why it was wrong for National to specify a list of drugs that they would fund. Nicola Willis falsely claimed that the Government couldn't fund the drugs because Labour left behind a "fiscal cliff". The media should challenge her on her dishonesty, her party's manipulation of people's emotions and for giving them false hope during possibly the most devastating time in their lives.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/cancer-patients-will-die-waiting-failed-election-promise

    Jackson's article includes: "….National had pledged to fund 13 new drugs and said they’d do so in their first Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis said they couldn’t deliver because it would mean they’d have to change Pharmac’s operating model, and that Labour left behind a fiscal cliff…..

    I want people affected by cancer in New Zealand to have better access to cancer drugs. But you can’t give big Pharmac a blank cheque, and you must have a fair process to decide how the drugs are chosen……

    Willis said they had no money after Labour left a “fiscal cliff”. She argued that Labour only funded Pharmac in four-year blocks and they had to restore baseline funding. I find that argument unconvincing, as funding Pharmac in blocks is politics as usual – Jonathan Coleman did the same in the 2016 Budget and Helen Clark’s government did the same before that. It’s no secret that it’s funded this way, and it’s a typical political trick of announcing “new” funding for Pharmac when it’s really just continuing existing commitments….".

    An example of the impact of National's false promise on cancer sufferers, who believed National would follow through with their pledge, is evident in this Checkpoint interview today. It is well worth listening to.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018942040/cancer-patient-self-funding-life-extending-treatment

    Reply
16. Descendant Of Smith 16

    10 June 2024 at 7:26 pm

    Jon Stewart makes some salient points about media being the people to hold politicians, etc to account by investigating and examining the truth. Without the media doing this that only leaves the courts to be the arbiter of cross-examination.

    Reply

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