Open mike 12/02/2025

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 12th, 2025 - 42 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

42 comments on “Open mike 12/02/2025 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    12 February 2025 at 8:41 am

    Whakatane Mayor Victor Luca

    Health conference aimed at ‘lighting a fire’ for public services

    Having lived and worked in countries with dysfunctional public health systems where adequate health services are only available those able to afford private health insurance, he was surprised on returning to New Zealand to health services were moving in a similar direction.

    Some top names…those who have been/are at the front as it were…

    Sandy Milne, who has been campaigning for better laboratory services in Whakatāne since they were outsourced to a private laboratory in Tauranga, will also speak briefly at the conference.

    Other speakers are health systems commentator and columnist Ian Powell, who is a former Association of Salaried Medical Specialists executive director; University of Otago Centre for Health Systems and Technology co-director Robin Gauld; University of Otago Centre of Hauora Māori Professor of Public Health in Kōhatu Peter Crampton and specialist medical laboratory scientist Dr Terry Taylor.

    Mayor Luca. I'm liking what I read.

    "This is about thinking outside the box, because all too often these days I hear the government saying 'we don't have money we can't finance this'.

    And yet, we managed to build infrastructure in this country with half the population before the 1970s and since then we've been going backwards.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/541196/health-conference-aimed-at-lighting-a-fire-for-public-services

    Anyone know of him?

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    12 February 2025 at 9:35 am

    Trump, having spent most of a lifetime developing real estate, thinks Gaza is a likely prospective development. Thus his stance as peacemaker supreme:

    Trump restated his plan for the U.S. to take over Gaza during a meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah on Tuesday and insisted that Jordan would house displaced Palestinians, despite the king's opposition to the proposal.

    The U.S. president, speaking alongside the Arab country's ruler in the Oval Office, signaled he would not budge on his idea that involves moving the Gaza Strip's shell-shocked residents and transforming the war-ravaged territory into what he billed a "Riviera of the Middle East."

    Trump has infuriated the Arab world by saying that Palestinians would not have the right of return to their homes under his proposal to redevelop the enclave, which has been devastated by an Israeli offensive.

    "We're going to take it. We're going to hold it, we're going to cherish it. We're going to get it going eventually, where a lot of jobs are going to be created for the people in the Middle East," Trump said in the Oval Office, saying his plan would "bring peace" to the region. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/trump-jordans-king-set-tense-meeting-gazas-future-2025-02-11/

    A king is just a piece on the regional chessboard. A player moves their king when the time is right. A king's inclination has marginal relevance in geopolitics nowadays. That said, we have yet to see the art of the deal…

  3. Subliminal 3
    12 February 2025 at 11:45 am

    Has anyone asked the Palestinians what they thnk of this plan?

    No.

    If you are in doubt about their feelings, just go back a couple of weeks and witness again, the jubilation and celebration with which Palestinians moved north to Gaza city en mass.

    Asem Alnabih is an engineer with the Gaza city municipality. He is attempting to get the water flowing, rubbish collected and sewerage pumping. He is under no illusions about the enormity of the task but is adamant that ways will be found.

    Palestinians, will not be moved. They live now in the place that is their home. They have the inalienable right to determine their own future. They absolutely dont give a flying one for anything that Trump thinks.

    From the Electronic Intifada's youtube channel:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PqvkQKTlFyc

  5. Ad 5
    12 February 2025 at 1:29 pm

    Are we going to get the Minister of Immigration, or Justice, or of Labour, or of Economic Development, to comment on this huge Kiwifruit modern slavery bust today?

    It's a biggie.

    Jail NZs modern slavedrivers.

  6. tWig 6
    12 February 2025 at 1:55 pm

    Small, spiteful actions to erase identity. Google removes Black History, Pride and other cultural events from its calendar.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/11/google-calendar-black-history-pride-month

    The worst of these Project 2025 initiatives is the destruction of both culture (and with the defunding of science projects, both here and in the US, a throttling of the creative, inventive spirit.

    Identity politics is bad! The only identities that matter are white and male, according to anti DEI actions.

    • Dennis Frank 6.1
      12 February 2025 at 2:13 pm

      All produced by democracy! Consequently advocates of democracy will be thrilled. Ain't it great to have a system with a built-in reset that people collectively trigger on schedule! Plus you can change the global wallpaper too:

      Google maps has changed the Gulf of Mexico's name to the Gulf of America for people using the app in the US. Explaining the move, Google said it was making the change as part of "a longstanding practice" of following name changes when updated by official government sources.

      It said the Gulf – which is bordered by the US, Cuba and Mexico – would not be changed for people using the app in Mexico, and users elsewhere in the world will see the label: "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)". https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp820m733p3o

      Reality is hereby made selectable on a common-interest basis, where the commonality is nationalist. You can see why RNZ rebranded themselves RNZ National several years ago, eh? Some clever bugger in the hierarchy had a brain-wave & realised it could be rebranded RNZ Labour at any time. Better put a stop to that toot sweet!

    • Ad 6.2
      12 February 2025 at 2:25 pm

      I bet Seymour will seek to overturn Matariki Day once he ascends to Deputy Prime Minister in May.

      • tc 6.2.1
        12 February 2025 at 4:28 pm

        He doesn't need to do much as the MSM is always keen to promote his every utterance.
        So the 8% party gets a state of the nation platform….did Labour get one ?

        • Ad 6.2.1.1
          12 February 2025 at 5:41 pm

          Meh. Seymour is a good retail politician. Better at it than anything TPM or Greens are putting up. Even the PM can't touch him now.

          • Hanswurst 6.2.1.1.1
            12 February 2025 at 10:06 pm

            He does have that quality as a minor-party leader. His particular brand of nerdy shock populism isn't really suited to the combination of government and the political big stage, though (he's too much of a fool to realise that), and it's only a matter of time before he crashes and burns. Outside talkback, nobody in the media likes him, and nobody in parliament outside of the Act party likes him. He is also, objectively speaking, a dickhead. His days are numbered.

            • Graeme 6.2.1.1.1.1
              12 February 2025 at 10:49 pm

              Spot on.

              He's also costing National support and causing Luxon some grief. Luxon got a solid dressing down at Onuku thanks to Seymore's efforts, rule one of corporate life, don't cause the boss grief, you don't last long. Coincidental that the Polkinghorne thing dropped the next day.

              Yep, dead man walking.

              Luxon could give Seymore, and probably ACT the flick and come out quite well, unlikely ACT would bring the government down and trigger an early election.

    • tWig 6.3
      12 February 2025 at 2:50 pm

      US Federal biomedical funding freeze. It's now all considered 'discretionary', as opposed to fundamental to national progress. Similar government attitude to research funding position in NZ.

    • Visubversa 6.4
      12 February 2025 at 3:48 pm

      Funnily enough the only "identities" that matter to Pride these days are "gender identities".

      Pride was about being proud of who we were as lesbian women, gay men or bisexual people. Early Gay Liberation was all about telling young Gay people (and ourselves) that we should be proud of ourselves, just the way we were, to be happy in our sexual orientation.

      Now – young gay people are being told that their bodies are wrong, that they will never be happy as they are, that they have to become something else and that there is no such thing as "same sex attraction".

      It is not our 'Pride" any more.

      • SPC 6.4.1
        12 February 2025 at 4:27 pm

        Now – young gay people are being told that their bodies are wrong, that they will never be happy as they are, that they have to become something else and that there is no such thing as "same sex attraction".

        An unsubstantiated opinion.

        • Visubversa 6.4.1.1
          12 February 2025 at 4:57 pm

          You obviously are unaware of the growth in "gender affirming care". This involves chemical castration with off brand medications (puberty blockers) followed by a lifetime dependency on wrong sex hormones and/or mutilating and sterilising surgeries. You might start by reading about the Cass Review.

          • weka 6.4.1.1.1
            12 February 2025 at 5:00 pm

            and follow up with the numerous accounts online from detrans gay people.

          • SPC 6.4.1.1.2
            12 February 2025 at 5:10 pm

            You conflate such "gender ID" issues – children pre puberty – with telling gay youth their bodies are wrong.

            • weka 6.4.1.1.2.1
              12 February 2025 at 5:14 pm

              Puberty blockers for transgender and gender-diverse youth

              Mayo Clinic

              https://www.mayoclinic.org › in-depth › art-20459075

              14 Jun 2023 — GnRH analogue treatment can begin at the start of puberty to delay the development of secondary sex characteristics.

              🤷‍♀️

              • SPC …
                12 February 2025 at 5:58 pm

                This is not based on any "gay identity".

                • weka …
                  12 February 2025 at 7:52 pm

                  that's right, it's based on trans identity, and some gay kids are getting caught up in that and being medicalised out of being gay. Hence visub's comment

                  • SPC …
                    12 February 2025 at 7:57 pm

                    This is not targeting of children for being "gay kids". Is "gay kids", even a thing?

                    • weka …
                      12 February 2025 at 8:06 pm

                      depends on what you mean by kids, and I personally think there are social issues with attaching sexuality to primary school kids. But, there are adults that say they knew they were gay at that age.

                      I can name two dynamics. One is conservative parents who would rather their gay child was trans, and thus support/push transition. That's pretty easy to find examples of online.

                      The other is girls growing up in a culture that hates women and by the time they are exposed to trans culture pre-teen or teen, it's more attractive to them to be a trans boy than a girl. The ones that end up not coping end up with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, and on the medicalisation pathway. Hence the Cass Review.

                      you seem to be saying there is no pressure on pre-teens and teens to transition. That's just not true. Some of those are gay kids. I guess you could say it's not intentional to target them because they're gay, but I think society still has hefty issues around homosexuality despite the tolerances you described earlier, and the medical system transing gay kids is a form of institutional homophobia.

        • weka 6.4.1.2
          12 February 2025 at 4:59 pm

          Homosexual means people of either sex who are attracted to people of their own gender…

          the change made to the BBC style guide in 2021

          http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/academy/collegeofjournalism/news/bbc_news_style_guide_searchable_version.docx

          For clarity, the word gender there doesn't mean sex. It means gender identity. So being gay can be a man identifying as a woman attracted to women (ie a heterosexual man) calling himself a lesbian.

          This and the other points visubversa makes have been extensively covered everywhere except in liberal left circles where active denial runs strong. There are so many examples, including on TS, that I'm perplexed by your statement that it's unsubstantiated opinion.

        • SPC 6.4.1.3
          12 February 2025 at 5:57 pm

          Once upon a time, heterosexual society had a problem with (public) acceptance of homosexuality within it.

          Now their heterosexual children are raised up in a society alongside gay youth, and same sex attraction is acknowledged in schools, as the future for some of its pupils, including marriage.

          Society is clearly on side with there being a real same sex attraction.

          So to claim that there is also some campaign going on to target gay children under the age of puberty, is just plain wrong.

          Those who would, the conservative right, have no time for gender ID.

          And most adult gays and lesbians had no knowledge of this, pre puberty.

          With pre puberty minors, I note at least 3 categories, those who are not seen to conform to gender stereotype, those who do not feel they fit (may or may not be gender) and those with other issues (which during and post puberty extend to body dysmorphia).

          Conflating the health practice as per minors and the right word with lesbian – "sex or gender attraction", with a threat to the acceptance of same sex attraction is nonsense.

          It might be to women's safety and some rights of association (lesbian same sex for example – so LGB separate from the gender ID progressives).

          That LGB might feel compelled to separate from LGBQT+ over gender ID (and safe spaces for women), but that is no reason to accuse them of seeking to convert gay youth to transgender status, at most it is to have them use gender ID, rather than sex based ID.

          • SPC 6.4.1.3.1
            12 February 2025 at 6:22 pm

            belated grammarly edit

            That LGB might feel compelled to separate from LGBQT+ over gender ID (and safe spaces for women), but that is no reason to accuse them of seeking to convert gay youth to transgender status, at most it is to have them (and others) use gender ID, rather than sex based ID.

            • weka 6.4.1.3.1.1
              12 February 2025 at 7:59 pm

              how many detrans people have you been listening to? Because they are saying loud and clear that they were either pressured or misled into transitioning, sometimes when young. And a big chunk of those are lesbian and gay.

          • weka 6.4.1.3.2
            12 February 2025 at 7:56 pm

            I think you might be misunderstanding the politics and social dynamics.

            There is social pressure on young lesbians to transition. And once transitioned to not detransition once they realise they are not in fact trans men but are lesbian.

            Further, pathologising and medicalisation of humans is nothing new. Women know a lot about this. Now it's happening to kids, and they are having serious hormones and later surgeries, experimental imo both in terms of the surgeries and the transition. Like visub said, read the Cass review.

    • weka 6.5
      12 February 2025 at 5:03 pm

      you know what the lesson is here? Stop treating neoliberal gains as human rights gains. See how easily things can be removed? That's because it was a sop from the parts of society that don't actually care but needed liberals and the left to accept neoliberalism.

      • weka 6.5.1
        12 February 2025 at 5:05 pm

        I'll just repost this,

        One of the best explanations I've seen about the shift from leftist class based analysis and action, to liberal identity politics (and the implications of that shift),

        I look at this way; prior to and concomitant with the rise of neoliberal (global corporate) capitalism, there was a radical shift of political theory and praxis to the right which meant that the popular perception of a “centre ground” – the fulcrum point if you will – shifted significantly to the right.

        Accompanying, and in fact aiding that was the rise, first of interest group, and then identity politics.

        Instead of great national and international movements aimed at achieving and sustaining systemic change, there was a proliferation of smaller “issue”, latterly “identity” based movements.

        The old "red left" which aimed for foundational socio-economic change – not just accommodations within capitalism – lost ground, especially with the demise of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc.

        Social democrats and socially liberal people shifted rightwards with the fulcrum point, adjusting their ideas and expectations of what being "left-wing” meant.

        For many of them it was simply not being “right-wing”. In the weird world of US politics, it was the patent absurdity of the Democratic Party being "left”.

        For socially and politically liberal centrists – having abandoned all hope of socialism (if they ever had any) and with that class-based theory and praxis – the focus on interest group, and then identity politics, was palliative.

        Attachment to movements that merely sought accommodations from Neo-liberal compliant states – but which in no way threatened the economic status quo – soothed their liberal hearts and minds as they benefited materially from neoliberal capitalism’s intensification of economic exploitation which was accompanied by an increased oppression of workers – somewhere.

        https://tewharewhero.blogspot.com/2025/02/the-slippery-slope-into-barbarism.html

        • weka 6.5.1.1
          12 February 2025 at 5:11 pm

          and to be very clear, that's leftist, feminist analysis from someone that cares about the wellbeing of people of colour, LGBT etc. And guess what, women.

          Small, spiteful actions to erase identity. Google removes Black History, Pride and other cultural events from its calendar.

          Heavy irony. Even the Guardian could mention women, in their first sentence,

          Google’s online and mobile calendars are no longer including references to Black History Month, Women’s History Month and LGBTQ+ holidays, among other events.

          That's not the first time I've seen a liberal commenting on US political attacks on marginalised people and somehow leaving how that women are being attacked too. Won't be the last.

  7. tWig 7
    12 February 2025 at 2:33 pm

    BHN pat and Spiderhoof deconstruct Luxon's latest tv interview. Start at 60 min. On ‘golden shower’ visas and his poor polling.

    Spiderhoof thinks Luxon's been at PM boot camp, because his go-to phrase of the month is now 'green shoots', away from 'what I will tell you it is about growth'

  8. Stephen D 8
    12 February 2025 at 2:45 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/541645/removing-teacher-requirements-could-be-devastating-teaching-council-says

    Yet another reason ECE should be brought under Min of Ed control.

    All the angst over NCEA results would mostly be alleviated, in the longer term, if there was enough money spent on childrens' education years 3-10.

  9. SPC 9
    12 February 2025 at 2:51 pm

    War between business and media in court.

    The players Talley's vs TVNZ.

    A common tale – the business (Talley's) want to see the evidence and (TVNZ) the media won't compromise sources.

    https://archive.li/lHi88

    • Ad 9.1
      12 February 2025 at 4:21 pm

      The Talley family are true anti-worker scum. Well attested human rights violators dating back decades.

  10. SPC 10
    12 February 2025 at 2:54 pm

    Missed this earlier

    Heinz trashing the Watties name.