Open mike 15/02/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 15th, 2020 - 82 comments
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82 comments on “Open mike 15/02/2020 ”

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  2. mosa 2
    15 February 2020 at 10:39 am

    " Public Affairs Committee is helping to fund a Super PAC launching attack ads against Sen. Bernie Sanders in Nevada on Saturday, according to two sources with knowledge of the arrangement. The ads are being run by a group called Democratic Majority for Israel, founded by longtime AIPAC strategist Mark Mellman "

    https://theintercept.com/2020/02/14/aipac-anti-bernie-sanders-ads-nevada/

    • Sacha 3.1
      15 February 2020 at 10:50 am

      From the sidebar, Jackal notes who else needs to be made accountable: http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2020/02/nz-mainstream-media-promotes-racism.html

      For over five decades New Zealand has had to put up with Jones’ racist rants being widely disseminated. Even though there’s nothing new or significant about what he’s been saying, Jones has had free reign to pontificate about a country and topics he appears to know very little about. In effect he’s been running around lighting the fires of hatred that has assuredly caused people harm.

      It’s not just Jones who is to blame though. Many media outlets facilitated his racism through publication. Editors could have easily put a stop to Jones’ animosity towards Maori, but instead idealised him and allowed their syndications to be used as propaganda tools for a privileged bigot! In my opinion these complicit editors need to be moved on.

  4. A 4
    15 February 2020 at 11:19 am

    AH…so that's one way China can track citizens who are likely to have been exposed to nCoV

    https://youtu.be/vE4pBkslqS4?t=336

  5. Drowsy M. Kram 5
    15 February 2020 at 12:11 pm

    Excerpts from a report on the propaganda war against Assange. UN special rapporteur on torture Melzer "admits that he was himself initially taken in by the propaganda campaign."

    "Four democratic countries joined forces – the U.S., Ecuador, Sweden and the UK – to leverage their power to portray one man as a monster so that he could later be burned at the stake without any outcry. The case is a huge scandal and represents the failure of Western rule of law. If Julian Assange is convicted, it will be a death sentence for freedom of the press."

    "There is only a single explanation for everything – for the refusal to grant diplomatic assurances, for the refusal to question him in London: They wanted to apprehend him so they could extradite him to the U.S. The number of breaches of law that accumulated in Sweden within just a few weeks during the preliminary criminal investigation is simply grotesque."

    "We have to stop believing that there was really an interest in leading an investigation into a sexual offense. What Wikileaks did is a threat to the political elite in the U.S., Britain, France and Russia in equal measure."

    "I have seen lots of horrors and violence and have seen how quickly peaceful countries like Yugoslavia or Rwanda can transform into infernos. At the roots of such developments are always a lack of transparency and unbridled political or economic power combined with the naivete, indifference and malleability of the population. Suddenly, that which always happened to the other – unpunished torture, rape, expulsion and murder – can just as easily happen to us or our children. And nobody will care. I can promise you that."

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2002/S00093/un-special-rapporteur-on-torture-demolishes-the-fake-claims-targeting-julian-assange.htm

  6. Exkiwiforces 6
    15 February 2020 at 1:01 pm

    Here is an interesting piece on the sorry saga of the 737 Max airliner, where Boeing management put profits first before people including the SME business as well and their own people from the 737 Max management team to the workers on the hanger floor.

    Boeing once had a culture of customer and its work force from the hanger floor up to the broad room come first before profit. Now the current broad has trash not only its culture of safety first, putting customers and workers first culture, but the entire culture, legacy and history of Boeing as a aircraft manufacturer all because of putting profits and shareholders first.

    Obviously they don’t teach history, ethics and culture anymore at business school or wherever they get their fancy certificates/ training these days.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-15/ex-boeing-manager-says-one-in-25-737-max-had-safety-incident/11957634

    • RedLogix 6.1
      15 February 2020 at 2:17 pm

      Other sources I've read confirm the problem and specifically date it back to when Boeing purchased McDonnell Douglas … who then inexplicably managed to get many of it's executives into positions of power and then methodically dismantle the engineer-led culture of Boeing.

      By contrast one large US company I’ve been associated with much of my working life has almost always appointed engineers as it’s CEO … and so far it’s worked.

      But yes, overall the culture of the ‘generic manager’ who doesn’t have industry specific expertise has been a disaster. Competency counts for way more than the ideologues on all sides like to think.

      • Andre 6.1.1
        15 February 2020 at 3:12 pm

        The saga of the DC10 cargo doors failing has long been used in engineering education around an engineer's professional duties, ethics, reporting problems to the chain of command and whistleblowing when no actions were taken to correct known safety problems.

      • Poission 6.1.2
        15 February 2020 at 8:19 pm

        But yes, overall the culture of the ‘generic manager’ who doesn’t have industry specific expertise has been a disaster.

        Look at the disaster with public institutions here.

  7. Janet 7
    15 February 2020 at 1:18 pm

    Re refugee settlement in Whanganui

    "speeches and before workshops could begin, Mair said the group did not support refugees coming into its tribal domain until it had sorted out its own backyard."

    Yes so true Ken Mair, but true of all New Zealand these days. What a mess our politicians have created over the last 25 years through immigration in one form or another.It is a way past time to stop, consolidate and recreate New Zealand to the pleasant place it used to be for most of us to live in.

    • te reo putake 7.1
      15 February 2020 at 2:59 pm

      Yep, and I suppose we could start by getting rid of all those immigrants from Britain who have really buggered the joint up since their arrival a couple of centuries ago. I'd start with anyone with a stereotypical Anglo Saxon name, like, for example, Janet.

      Alternatively, we could keep the immigrants and boot out the bigots. There's a lot less bigots than immigrants so it would be less time consuming and easier to manage and if they didn't want to go back to wherever they came from, there's plenty of room on the Auckland Islands. Diet's a bit limited though, mainly dead penguins and guano paste, but I'm sure they'd adapt.

      • veutoviper 7.1.1
        15 February 2020 at 3:13 pm

        LOL – wellsaid! And there is a big difference between 'refugees' and 'migrants/immigrants' but none so blind etc etc

        Good to see you back here, hope you do so more often.

        • Janet 7.1.1.1
          15 February 2020 at 4:10 pm

          I know there is a difference between refugees and immigrants generally but until we have our free health service , our education systems, our state led housing programs and our general infrastructure all up and running again properly then tax payers money used to assist yet more people to come into this currently dysfunctional country is wrongly budgeted and spent.

          • Sacha 7.1.1.1.1
            15 February 2020 at 4:46 pm

            You do realise that migrants pay tax – and prop up the housing 'market' that successive govts have indulged?

            Subtract migration and NZ has been in deep trouble for decades. Swapping houses, with banks clipping the ticket, has not produced sustainable wealth – or built the decent services you are missing. Cutting migration now does not fix that, let alone taking even fewer refugees than our share.

            • weka 7.1.1.1.1.1
              15 February 2020 at 6:34 pm

              "Subtract migration and NZ has been in deep trouble for decades"

              How do you mean?

            • Muttonbird 7.1.1.1.1.2
              15 February 2020 at 9:18 pm

              Managing migration now and managing the infrastructure required for that managed migration plan does fix it in the long term though.

              We should be starting this now (and at the very least this government has started) because it's been amateur hour for the last decade.

            • mauī 7.1.1.1.1.3
              15 February 2020 at 10:42 pm

              The globalists would be proud of you… Fortunately there's a big trend in populist politics that pushes back on immigration policy that undermines a country.

              • McFlock …
                15 February 2020 at 10:55 pm

                How does immigration "undermine" a country? Especially non-refugee immigration (because refugees are a shameful fuck-all of our immigration stats).

                • weka …
                  16 February 2020 at 11:48 am

                  I wouldn't use the term undermine, because we run the economy we want and none of it is ideal at the moment. But immigration does have impacts. People with assets and the exchange rate in their favour can and do bump up land/property prices. There's also the ongoing issue that the left doesn't want to talk about yet, about what the real world (as in nature) carrying capacity of NZ is. This is about population, and obviously immigration policy ties into that.

                  The left's general position that immigration is always good is stopping us having the harder conversations about *how we should design our immigration policy. I have no doubt that the Key's govt's motivations and how they ran immigration policy caused problems. Labour's clumsy handling hasn't helped either.

                  • Poission …
                    16 February 2020 at 1:00 pm

                    The lefts position (eg Sanders) is unbounded immigration depresses wages and increases profits for corporates.

                    https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1228310760582873088

                    Now the acolytes of the high church of the hidden hand may postulate that this (with increased global trade) is good for growth.Adam Smith in the inquiry suggested that high profits and not high wages are a constraint on the economy.

                  • McFlock …
                    16 February 2020 at 4:54 pm

                    Immigration has impacts.

                    We also have a non-replacement reproductive rate, which also has impacts.

                    Immigration might not always be good – especially too fast for infrastructure development (not just immigrating into somewhere with shitty infrastructure planning). But in the NZ context with our controlled immigration policy, I've yet to see anyone raise a solidly decent objection to our current rate. Especially the ones who use words like "undermine".

                    • RedLogix …
                      16 February 2020 at 6:09 pm

                      Is NZ immigration "unbounded"?

                      Not it isn't, but all too often when the left discusses this, we don't make the proposed boundaries clear at all. All too often it just reads as 'open borders'.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 February 2020 at 6:34 pm

                      I would have thought that when discussing current immigration to NZ the current boundaries would be implicit, unless someone is specifically discussing "open borders".

          • veutoviper 7.1.1.1.2
            15 February 2020 at 5:05 pm

            We also have international obligations in respect of refugees and stateless persons and at a measly 750 refugees a year for some decade,s we (NZ) have not been doing our fair share compared to other countries – including Australia from memory. I really cannot be bothered checking the latest figures but I did work in govt for many years, including in areas relating to our refugee and other international obligations.

            However, before replying I did do a quick check of your comments here on TS and immigration generally seems to be a longstanding bugbear with you in relation to maintaining a status quo nice life etc. as once existed in the 1950s/60s for example but which is long gone and unlikely to ever return as it was in those days.

      • RedLogix 7.1.2
        15 February 2020 at 4:46 pm

        Alternatively, we could keep the immigrants and boot out the bigots.

        I suppose you get to determine the difference?

        Yep, and I suppose we could start by getting rid of all those immigrants from Britain who have really buggered the joint up since their arrival a couple of centuries ago.

        Because if I got to choose that statement would fall firmly into the bigot camp.

      • Poission 7.1.3
        15 February 2020 at 8:32 pm

        Yep, and I suppose we could start by getting rid of all those immigrants from Britain who have really buggered the joint up since their arrival a couple of centuries ago.

        Not a very elegant statement.

        Great leaders such as Te Rangi Hiroa thought different.

        My mother was a full Maori of the Ngati-Mutunga tribe of North Taranaki in New Zealand. She had the arresting name of Ngarongo-ki-tua (Tidings-that-reach-afar). I hope for the sake of her memory that, by gathering tidings from afar, I may be worthy the honour of being her son …

        … My father belonged to a north of Ireland family that lived in Armagh, so I am entitled to his family name. I am binomial, bilingual, and inherit a mixture of two bloods that I would not change for a total of either. I mention this brief family history to show that from my birth I was endowed with a background for the study of Polynesian manners and customs that no university could have given me. My mother's blood enables me to appreciate a culture to which I belong, and my father's speech helps me to interpret it, inadequate though the rendering be at times.

      • adam 7.1.4
        15 February 2020 at 9:02 pm

        Yeah lets the immigrants run over Māori culture.

        Lets keep forcing Māori to accept more immigrants so white liberals like yourself can throw around the term racist to anyone who wants to have a debate about immigration.

        And rather than have a debate with janet you go all cock sure arshole. I'd get a ban for trying to shut down a debate like that – but you…

        • te reo putake 7.1.4.1
          16 February 2020 at 11:09 am

          "shutting down debate", Adam says, only 11 debaters and 14 comments later.

          • Sacha 7.1.4.1.1
            16 February 2020 at 11:23 am

            you white liberal, you

          • RedLogix 7.1.4.1.2
            16 February 2020 at 1:10 pm

            I think the point is that Janet whom you directed that 'inelegant' little diatribe to has indeed gone silent.

            • veutoviper 7.1.4.1.2.1
              16 February 2020 at 2:30 pm

              Janet has been a commenter on TS for some years and I doubt that she is a shrinking violet who will disappear. She contributes some very good ideas etc on sustainability, environment, and similar issues and I admire and respect her for her views and actions in these areas. She also grows my favourite fruit of all time, tamarillos, on a small commercial basis. Sadly, hard to come by and very expensive these days with the dieback of tamarillo trees due to a nasty insect whose name escapes me. So I also admire her for continuing to carry on growing them.

              However, I have also followed her views on immigration also expressed on any number of occasions here on TS over the same period and have not been impressed and consider these at odds with the NZ we have become and will continue to become. These include that NZ should only take permanent immigrants from first world countries such as the UK, Canada, USA etc; and not from second and third world countries; our FTAs with countries such as China and India should not provide any provisions for immigration from these countries, all "non-contributing illegal immigrants' should immediately be thrown out of NZ; and NZ shouuld only take in the barest minimun of immigrants to meet special skills needs. I won't provide links but just one example is the interesting discussion held under a Post on 27 April 2017 concerning Immigration and Winston Peters.

              Obviously Janet is entitled to her views and to express them; but IMHO she should also then be prepared to face robust challenges to these views.

              She was after all the one who started the thread @ 7 re blocks people such as Ken Mair are putting in the way of settling refugees – not immigrants per se – in the Whanganui area.

              • RedLogix …
                16 February 2020 at 2:36 pm

                Fair enough, but unless Janet does decide to reply we can only assume TRP's response was more likely to discourage participation than not.

                The really interesting question arises in the context of cultural integrity. The history of colonisation informs us quite clearly what happens when an existing (indigenous) people are out numbered by new arrivals from an entirely different culture. It's well understood to be exceedingly detrimental. This is pretty much where Ken Mair is coming from.

                Yet for some reason this does not apply to white cultures.

                • veutoviper …
                  16 February 2020 at 3:07 pm

                  Janet self-identified back on 17 April 2017 as "I am a fourth generation NZ fulltime farmer." No mention of any indigeous connections

                  I understand where Ken Mair is coming from to a degree. Despite being white myself, I am really pleased that my wider whanau now includes quite a few younger mixed Pakeha/Maori (Mahuta) cousins.

                  I also understand the strength of feeling associated with Turangawaewae as sadly I am having to sell up my family home of over 65 years where I spent most of my childhood and returned to after my father's death, and probably move away from the wider area of South Wellington my family/families have been associated with for c 150 years. Our once lower/middleclass neighbouthood is so sought after that it has become too expensive for many of us (mainly white) families/pensioners associated with the area for generations.

                  But we all have to move with the times and accept these changes and challenges.

                  I may be wrong but I get a bit of a whiff of protectionism of a commenter because she is female or even mansplaining. Please don't. I am a woman.

                  • RedLogix …
                    16 February 2020 at 3:13 pm

                    I may be wrong but I get a bit of a whiff of protectionism of a commenter because she is female

                    lol … fuck off.

                    • te reo putake …
                      16 February 2020 at 9:00 pm

                      "Fair enough, but unless Janet does decide to reply we can only assume TRP's response was more likely to discourage participation than not."

                      "lol … fuck off."

                  • Poission …
                    16 February 2020 at 3:20 pm

                    I understand where Ken Mair is coming from to a degree.

                    Doubt it.Mairs argument is that the housing problems in Whanganui need to be resolved first,prior to Refugee settlement (its called localisim)

                    The government needs to address both the failure under its watch to provide adequate social housing in Whanganui,and to constrain investor greed and avarice (another failure) first.

                    Landlords Link managing director Tracey Onishenko said rents had shot up off the back of investor interest in the city.

                    "Rents have skyrocketed. I do think some of them are over the top for what you are getting. I mean the average three-bedroom home would be about … $350 to $370 [a week] so that's a lot of money for a lot of people."

                    Ms Onishenko thought Mr Mair had a point.

                    "I think he does because at the end of the day we're going to be worried about the refugees coming here and if they are not going to have paid employment they're going to find it hard to live. Where are they going to live?

                    "There are people here that are employed, they're struggling and they're getting probably okay money and they're struggling to secure a house."

                    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395707/focus-on-housing-squeeze-not-refugees-whanganui-mayor

                    https://www.whanganui.govt.nz/files/assets/public/guides-and-information/housing-snapshot-report-5-december-2018.pdf

                    • veutoviper …
                      16 February 2020 at 3:47 pm

                      Thanks for the links. Janet provided a quote in the comment at 7 but did not provide a link to where the quote came from.

                      As I said I do understand what Ken Mair is saying as I already knew many of the grounds that various communities have been making for not having refugees in their communities – and most are genuine constraints such as housing costs and availability.

                      However, with or without refugee considerations, Whanganui is certainly not alone in facing a major shortage of social housing and/or skyrocketing rentals.

                      A reasonable three bedroom house in my own Wellington suburb would have cost c $400 – 500 about three years ago. Those same properties with a lick of paint and a heat pump installed are now going for upwards of $700/800, even a $1000 per week. The actual availability of rental property has fallen dramatically with many rental now being let out as short-term B&Bs etc.

                      So yes, there are a lot of factors involved, and it would be great if the government could flash a wand and conjure up lots more social housing, higher wages etc etc overnight but thse things take time. Just imagine what the situation would have been if National were still the government…

                    • RedLogix …
                      16 February 2020 at 5:21 pm

                      I do think some of them are over the top for what you are getting. I mean the average three-bedroom home would be about … $350 to $370 [a week]

                      Indeed but here is the kicker … costs are going through the roof as well. $400pw is indeed a lot of money for many people, and while this amounts to a gross rental income of around $20k pa, costs such as rates ($3k), insurance($3k), property management($2k) and maintenance (2% of gross value) doesn't leave much left over. And that's before any borrowings or tax are paid. This is why rents have been increasing; your bastard landlord is not rolling in it.

                      And yes the new govt regulations are having an impact. I need to consider what to do with a family property that my brother has lived in for almost 30 years but he now needs to move on from. But because it's got a 70's style cathedral ceiling it's ridiculously expensive (and largely pointless) to put modern 'compliant' insulation in. What's there works perfectly well, but the rules don't allow for it now.

                      Renting has just become too hard and our options are to short term it with AirBnB or sell. Either way a tenant doesn't get a look in.

                    • Poission …
                      16 February 2020 at 5:32 pm

                      I have recently ( november) downsized to an 80m^2 townhouse in chch.(under 8yrs old) fully double glazed,and double insulated.

                      My living costs (rates,insurance,electricity,phone and broadband) are under $ 125.00 per week.Solar power this year with plug in hybrid will also incorporate vehicle costs in that figure.

                      Its a home not an investment.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      16 February 2020 at 5:46 pm

                      RL, it highlights how poorly aligned housing costs and income have become since Rogernomics.

                      That landlords are supposedly on the bones of their arse (despite making huge capital gains for nearly 20 years now), while young families struggle to pay rent is a clear indication of a failed economic system.

                    • RedLogix …
                      16 February 2020 at 6:04 pm

                      @MB

                      Yes incomes and housing costs are out of kilter, I've always agreed with this. In my view the big problem is a deeply structural one; in this country the Wages Share to GDP ratio is remarkably low for a developed nation and have been for a very long time. This flows primarily from govt policies and relatively low labour productivity, more than hordes of greedy landlords trying to screw everyone over.

                      Australia and Canada have both experienced similar property booms (especially in their gateway cities Sydney, Melbourne and Vancouver) but because wages are significantly higher it has caused somewhat less social pain. Also being larger countries there remain plenty of regional cities where property is still good value. By contrast in NZ, rising property prices in Auckland soon flow through everywhere.

                      This is a complex topic and nothing written in one blog comment is going to be without omission or flaw, but in my view the big problem is that NZ remains a relatively low wage country and this is why our housing costs are hurting so much.

                      PS. We chat to many kiwis here in Aus, and the one thing they all agree on is the ‘sticker shock’ when they make the trip back home to NZ to see family. Not only are wages low in NZ, the cost of living is significantly higher. It’s a very unhappy double whammy for anyone living on less than the median income.

                    • Poission …
                      16 February 2020 at 6:24 pm

                      Rl

                      Lets look at a tale of 2 cities (ak and chch) both experienced exogenous shocks to housing,one natural and one man made.

                      Nearly 170,000 properties were damaged in the earthquakes, about three quarters of Canterbury’s housing stock; the proportion was even higher within Christchurch City. The consequent shortage in housing has resulted in a sharp increase in house prices in Christchurch. House prices in the city are more than 40 percent higher than their pre-quake levels (figure 6). While this increase in house prices is smaller than the increase that has occurred in Auckland, where there is also a shortage of housing, it is more than double the increase that has occurred in the rest of New Zealand.

                      The shortage of housing has contributed to a sharp increase in rents, which had increased by almost 50 percent in Christchurch City by the start of 2015, compared with a nationwide increase of about 15 percent during that time (figure 7). The increase in rents has been concentrated in the relatively unaffected suburbs to the west and south of Christchurch as people have moved away from harder hit areas. Rental increases in the more heavily affected coastal and riverside suburbs are in line with the nationwide increase. More recently, rents have started to decline in Christchurch – by about 9 percent in the first 11 months of 2015.In part, the decline in rents reflects the increase in residential construction under way. The number of residential consents has increased from about 500 consents per month before the quake to a peak of more than 1200 consents per month at the end of 2014, around the time the Bank estimates residential construction activity peaked as a percent of potential GDP.

                      https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/-/media/ReserveBank/Files/Publications/Bulletins/2016/2016feb79-3.pdf?revision=98c011a5-c4aa-4d71-b6dd-a3e436620734

                      Chch has now equated to historical norms (excluding social housing) hence there is little capital gains.Ak now has an infrastructure deficit greater the chch EQ .

                    • Sacha …
                      16 February 2020 at 9:03 pm

                      RL:

                      This flows primarily from govt policies and relatively low labour productivity

                      Let's not confuse labour productivity with business productivity. The problem is not caused by workers.

                      The share of profits trousered by owners and not re-invested in things that make businesses more productive (like training, IT systems, better roles) has increased since the 1980s up-ended the previous social contract.

                      That's where change is needed but nobody seems to be proposing much of it, are they.

  8. te reo putake 8
    15 February 2020 at 3:01 pm

    Happily, the Gov't is finally going to crack down on the gangs. Couldn't happen too soon.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10509500

    • Janet 8.1
      15 February 2020 at 3:57 pm

      I wonder how they are going to crack down on them … send them to the Auckland Islands too ?

    • Sacha 8.2
      15 February 2020 at 4:48 pm

      I had forgotten what a stable genius that guy's govt were – look how embedded gangs and P are now.

      • Muttonbird 8.2.1
        15 February 2020 at 6:27 pm

        And he accepted Dutton's eviction policy with barely a whimper. Despite it having a profoundly negative effect on NZ communities.

        John Key didn't care though, because it didn't affect him.

        • Sacha 8.2.1.1
          15 February 2020 at 8:35 pm

          And the dolts around him like McCully probably couldn't see a lucrative enough angle to be arsed with either.

          • Naki man 8.2.1.1.1
            15 February 2020 at 9:14 pm

            You can't blame Australia for putting out the trash.

            • Muttonbird 8.2.1.1.1.1
              15 February 2020 at 9:20 pm

              Yes you can. We are supposed to have the very closest relationship of all countries. Their policy acts as if that is not the case at all. It acts as if AUS and NZ were independent of one another.

              • Naki man …
                15 February 2020 at 9:29 pm

                They are independent of one another.

                • Muttonbird …
                  15 February 2020 at 9:37 pm

                  That is not true. Australians and New Zealanders are able to move, live and work freely between the two countries.

                  In terms of labour, residency, earning and contribution the two peoples are indistinguishable.

                  Only when character is involved has the Australian determined the relationship ends.

                  You seem happy with the exploding gang violence though. Weird.

                • Muttonbird …
                  15 February 2020 at 9:59 pm

                  It was a change predicted two years ago by Mongrel Mob Kingdom president Sonny Fatu when he attempted to bring the Mob and the Black Power together to protect their patch against the invaders.

                  The invaders he referred to back then were the motorcycle biker gangs, like the Mongols, which came amid the wave of deportees from Australia.

                  Kiwi expats who had failed good character tests across the ditch found themselves with a free trip back home and gang methods from the Lucky Country.

                  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119467711/change-in-gang-landscape-adds-to-rising-tensions

                  It's an incredibly disruptive and irresponsible policy by right wing Australian governments who seek to export their misery to their closest partner solely for political reasons.

                  I can’t think of a worse example of destructive trans Tasman relationships than this. And it is happening right now.

                  We are mugs to put up with it.

  10. Cinny 10
    15 February 2020 at 10:08 pm

    Tune in live now, USA calling out China big time, it's going to be all on…..
    Esper is speaking at the Munich Security Conference

    • Cinny 10.1
      15 February 2020 at 10:10 pm

      Fork….. Russia is no longer our biggest threat, it's now China…. says Esper…suggesting democracy

      He said that xi jinping had basically been ruining China at the begining of the speech.

      Anyways, nighty nite… wonder what will come of this by the morrow….stunning speech.

      • aom 10.1.1
        15 February 2020 at 10:50 pm

        Probably not much will happen overnight Cinny as it is all the usual bullshit and bluster from Esper. For a start, the US is not a democracy, its representation is decided by an electoral college one a one person one vote democracy. It is further polluted as there are no constraints on the electoral vote buying and influence rorts. Secondly, when did the US ever subscribe to and respect international law or a rules based system of international trade and transactional relationships? If China is in the process of developing its military capability, why would they do that? Even North Korea knows the answer to that one. Mr. Esper should have saved his breath as the US is increasingly providing proof of its decline into the status of a rapidly dying empire – as his utterances prove.

  11. Muttonbird 11
    15 February 2020 at 10:37 pm

    I read a bit of this article by Aussie hack Sam Clench.

    I read up the the word 'humungous' and realised Sam wasn't worth reading anymore.

    I was taken back to when I moved to a new school in 5th Form and wrote an English essay which was well received except for a solid red line through the word 'humungous' and an accompanying note, "too colloquial".

    35 Years later I remember it clearly as it was a pivotal moment in my life.

    I see Sam Clench using this word in a paid column attacking Bernie Sanders for wanting to be too human and I can't help thinking he is a fraud.

    He links Castro and Corbyn, Sanders and the Soviet Union in his MOR diatribe.

    I'd rather Bernie failed against Trump than Sam's reasonable, functioning adult in the White House again soft Republican solution.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12308861

  12. Muttonbird 12
    15 February 2020 at 10:55 pm

    Whenever I go to yum cha it is 95% Chinese customer. This suggests Chinese New Zealanders themselves are abandoning Chinese restaurants.

    This also suggests Chinese New Zealanders are either worried about the movements of other Chinese, or are superstitious, or don't trust the advice of New Zealand authorities.

    Probably a combination of all three.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12308733

  13. Muttonbird 13
    15 February 2020 at 11:24 pm

    Farrar watch:

    David says, "National should promise to do the same here, if elected".

    And what is he referring to? The Bojo government’s think process.

    If universities don’t take action, the government will. If necessary, I’ll look at changing the underpinning legal framework, perhaps to clarify the duties of students’ unions.

    So, not only is David Farrar advocating government intervention in university policy (the horror), but specifically the subjugation of student unions to government will.

    So, what kind of free speech does Farrar believe in? Right wing free speech, and right wing free speech only.

  14. Chris T 14
    16 February 2020 at 12:53 am

    Tell you what I wouldn't mind, you for once explaining why you call me names on threads

    • Muttonbird 14.1
      18 February 2020 at 8:24 pm

      Bro. This is why I address you by those names on threads.

      You from another forum today:

      Its is three donors and a well known nutcase ex spinner who the left love for some weird reason.

      Initials rhyme with ***

      And you from this forum today:

      It is pretty widely reported it is 3 donors and the nutty bloke.

      Until the nutty one got granted name suppression and every outlet had to stop saying his name

      Feign ignorance if you wish, Dark.

  15. Eco Maori 15
    17 February 2020 at 8:40 am

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Grandparents are good teachers for their mokopuna as they have more experience and time.

    Formula E is about promoting a sestanable future Electric everything.

    Ka kite Ano

  16. Eco Maori 16
    17 February 2020 at 6:25 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Good advertising is the best way to bring in the putea.

    Lolly scramble.

    He's never stopped campaigning .

    The floodings were pridicted hope no one is lost in the United Kingdom floods I see they had flooding in Los Angeles.

    Funny.????.

    Holiday what's that I've got EdTV 24/7.

    Ka kite Ano

  17. Eco Maori 17
    17 February 2020 at 6:43 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's is cool telling the story of Ngāti Porou signing of the Waitangi treaty and the story up to the settlement.

    Its good to see other Iwi gaining traction on their Treaty Settlement process.
    The system is corupt how do you TRUST that

    Ka kite Ano

  18. Eco Maori 18
    18 February 2020 at 8:38 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    I've owned a few Holdens they are classic now.

    Racist are haters some people use hate to float their toilets.

    We must plan for being 70s.

    Gliding on was a good classic TV series.

    Newshub 430 news had a power outage.?????.

    Rents are just shorting going up I seen a good program on Maori TV last night about shonky and his m8s.

    Ka kite Ano

  19. Eco Maori 19
    18 February 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    The Prefab House construction process needs to be ramped up.

    War is for idiots the woman and children are the ones that pay the price in suffering.

    Ka kite Ano.

  20. Eco Maori 20
    18 February 2020 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    ,, I,, I do get a itchy ear when I hear Te reo pronounced terrible wrong.

    Ka pai

    That's the way The Indigenous Rugby League All Stars making a stand. Times are changing Kia Kaha.

    Ka kite Ano