Open mike 15/11/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 15th, 2019 - 93 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

93 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2019 ”

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  1. Sanctuary 1
    15 November 2019 at 7:23 am

    Guyon Espiner has a huge scoop of a minister behaving correctly with a potential conflict of interest.

    I guess with all the $$$ spent on work done for a nothing outcome he has to yell fire at any sign of smoke, but honestly.

    • AB 1.1
      15 November 2019 at 8:43 am

      But the National Party is outraged that someone in business might have tried (and failed) to leverage their relationship with politicians for pecuniary interest. Would never happen under their watch eh? They are definitely scavenging around for the opportunity to mount a 2008-style ‘corruption’ attack on NZF.

      • Sanctuary 1.1.1
        15 November 2019 at 9:16 am

        IMHO, what we are seeing here is institutional racism in action. NZ is a small society which makes it hard for elites to avoid stories like this if the MSM decide to go after you. When you are dealing with the Maori business elite, which is a small part of a minority in an already small population it become almost impossible to do anything and avoid an establishment white media hatchet job around your connections.

        The proof of the pudding is whether or not there is any evidence of impropriety – and the behaviour of the minister seems to have been perfectly in order.

        Espiner seems to be happy to be a tool of the business/right wing elites these days, as long as he gets any sort of "serious" content for the pearl clutching class. His Pharmac panic mongering seemed to parrot the propaganda put out by PR agencies that push the agenda of big drug companies. Now it seems he is muck raking on behalf of that section of our society that is outraged Shane Jones has a billion dollars to spend and so far he isn't giving the usual suspects their cut.

        • AB 1.1.1.1
          15 November 2019 at 9:56 am

          Yes very good point – a 'corruption' narrative amplified by an underlying racist sentiment that “Maoris can't be trusted with public money”.

        • ianmac 1.1.1.2
          15 November 2019 at 9:57 am

          Didn't Bill English brother get a special job in Canterbury?

          Didn't the Speaker back then get irrigation benefit for his Hurinui farm while ECan was stripped of its democratic power??

          • Graeme 1.1.1.2.1
            15 November 2019 at 10:13 am

            I also had a funny feeling reading the RNZ report that this is a lead in to something else. The return serve could be interesting

  2. gsays 2
    15 November 2019 at 10:42 am

    On a lighter note: Take Cover Nelson!

    This arvo I am headed your way for the cider festival. Looking forward to catching up with Alex Peckham. He guided a swag (I need a collective noun for cider enthusiasts) of us through a selection of Peckhams cider.

    He generously sent a 20 litre ladder of Black Chisel(?) Apple juice to the Manawatu for me to ferment into cider.

    I have had The Free House recommended to me.

    If any Standardistas are going, I am the big gallah in the watermelon bucket hat.

    • Adrian 3.1
      15 November 2019 at 11:26 am

      This is my problem with the reaction and reporting of climate change or global warming. Everything that happens in the world is leveraged in the context of climate change.

      Before a single gallon of oil was taken from the ground my great grandparents were terrified of bushfire in rural Victoria. Drought and bushfires have been a part of Australia for so long that gum trees have had millions of years to adapt to and even require fire to stay healthy as it kills the parasites in the bark.

      Whats the problem now? Fucking idiot people ! A large number of these fires have been deliberatly lit by humans, others by discarded bottles and careless smokers, people really are stupid.

      These fires used to rage without damage generally to lives and infrastructure because there were none, but if you want to stick a house in what is essentially a forest of petroleum producing trees there is a very good chance that you will lose it one day, a bit the same as building here in the Shakey Isles.

      • Pat 3.1.1
        15 November 2019 at 11:32 am

        Maybe not as clear as I imagined….the events are greater and more frequent and compounding….there is less and less time/capacity to recover and resources (physical and human) are overwhelmed…this is not as before and it will increase

        • Peter chch 3.1.1.1
          15 November 2019 at 12:25 pm

          But Pat, how much of that is due to an expanding population that are increasingly living in vulnerable areas? How much of that is merely your perception due to a far greater reporting of bush fires and such like?

          I am not disagreeing regarding climate change, and it seems an inescapable conclusion that much of that is human generated, but really, these doomsday scenarios that link every naturally occurring event to 'climate change' when patently it is not just gives fuel to those who deny human generated climate change.

          The doomsday hypocrit Al Gore and his ilk have done immense damage to climate change acceptance.

      • weka 3.1.2
        15 November 2019 at 12:56 pm

        "These fires used to rage without damage generally to lives and infrastructure because there were none, but if you want to stick a house in what is essentially a forest of petroleum producing trees there is a very good chance that you will lose it one day, a bit the same as building here in the Shakey Isles."

        Yes, and no. Climate change impacts intersect with other things humans are doing. It might have been reasonable to build houses in fire-prone forests 50 years ago, because the risk was lowish. Climate change is making that risk much much higher. So we have the confluence of three things: building in a fire area; a bigger population in a fire area; many more fires than normal (and of unusual intensity).

        There are other factors there, like drought making forest management harder (there is less opportunity to controlled burns at other time).

        In all that climate change has to be centred, because the potential for global catastrophe is serious, and because locally, in terms of adaptation, the impacts of AGW matter (drought, frequency, changes to vegetation and ecologies).

        • weka 3.1.2.1
          15 November 2019 at 12:58 pm

          Two areas where this happens in NZ. One is we are building in some pretty stupid places (eg among kānuka/mānuka or pine or gums), and planting flammable trees in stupid places too. Still haven't caught up our thinking, and we'd be much better off if CC was centred in all those decisions.

          The other is the tenure review process changing land use, so that many of our dry areas now have a lot of flammable vegetation (sans sheep grazing and farmer burnoffs). Farmers are talking about this, but I'm not seeing conservationists having this conversation yet.

        • Pat 3.1.2.2
          15 November 2019 at 1:05 pm

          I suspect in increasing areas adaptation will be abandoned as an option as there will simply be no capacity (or will) to continue to expend resources needed elsewhere….you can hear the phrasing now

          • weka 3.1.2.2.1
            15 November 2019 at 1:14 pm

            probably. NZ's impending but largely unacknowledged* crisis is around big slips covering roads. Neither our engineering nor economics is designed around the frequency we will experience going forward.

            *weird given we should be planning around this for quakes anyway.

  4. adam 4
    15 November 2019 at 11:26 am

    The year in revolt, in review. Well worth the read if your not a beige lefty.

    https://libcom.org/news/balance-sheet-perspective-current-proletarian-struggles-all-over-world-14112019

    • Ad 4.1
      15 November 2019 at 11:35 am

      From the article:

      "2) Capitalism has reached a dead end. We are entering a period of social revolution because capitalism is exhausted as a social relation: it generates more and more superfluous humanity, it expels living labor from social production, and it consumes energy and raw materials with increasing voracity to try to address with more commodities what it loses by expelling human labor. Its crises are and will be more and more catastrophic."

      Capitalism is doing very well.

      Democracy is the one retreating fast.

      • Nic the NZer 4.1.1
        15 November 2019 at 12:57 pm

        One of the major problems I have interacting with this style (I'm going to call it vaguely marxist) of writing is interpreting the writers meaning of capitalism. As far as i understand the term capitalism refers to how economic relations are defined by society. But the problem is if thats the case then in a democracy these arrangements are at all times up for change by legitimate democratic process. So there is a continuous 'revolution' going on but the authors picture of where this leads is obscured. Its also unclear which bits of the economic arrangements would be disposed of by a non capitalist alternative.

      • adam 4.1.2
        15 November 2019 at 1:59 pm

        "All right chaps, look this democracy thing is not doing to well – let's revolt"

        YEAH RIGHT

        • Ad 4.1.2.1
          15 November 2019 at 4:44 pm

          OK let me see.

          Revolts caused by weakness in democratic responsiveness included:

          – Every single election since 2016 across Europe including Brexit (despite multiple elections in the last 5 year term)

          – Every new political party formed in Europe since 2011

          – The election of Donald Trump

          – The election of the new Brazilian president

          – The ejection of the President of Bolivia a few weeks' ago

          – The Hong Kong riots this year

          – The Indian election this year

          It would be just so lovely if class analysis worked at all these days. It very rarely does.

          But the revolutions have come from the right, rising to defend the nation-state better than the left have done for 90 years, won repeatedly and for years, and they continue to win.

  5. Ad 5
    15 November 2019 at 11:27 am

    In a case of egregiously bad timing, the Venice City Council was flooded with the largest flood in 50 years on the same night that the Coucnil voted to reject climate change measures.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/14/europe/veneto-council-climate-change-floods-trnd-intl-scli/index.html

    "Ironically, the chamber was flooded two minutes after the majority League, Brothers of Italy, and Forza Italia parties rejected our amendments to tackle climate change," Zanoni, who is deputy chairman of the environment committee, said in the post, which also has photographs of the room under water.

    Among the rejected amendments were measures to fund renewable sources, to replace diesel buses with "more efficient and less polluting ones," to scrap polluting stoves and reduce the impact of plastics, he said.

    Zanoni went on to accuse Veneto regional president Luca Zaia, who is a member of Matteo Salvini's far-right League Party, of presenting a budget "with no concrete actions to combat climate change."

    • Peter chch 5.1
      15 November 2019 at 12:27 pm

      The flooding is not linked to climate change. Venice has been sinking into the mud slowly for centuries, and this was recognised as a major threat as far back as the 18th century.

      • McFlock 5.1.1
        15 November 2019 at 2:24 pm

        "is not linked" is a stronger claim than "is much less of a factor than Venice sinking".

        Either way, it's still pretty funny.

        • Peter chch 5.1.1.1
          15 November 2019 at 3:02 pm

          Yep, McFlock. Poor choice of wording on my part and true, is very funny.

        • weka 5.1.1.2
          15 November 2019 at 5:09 pm

          how would we know if such a situation was linked to CC or not?

          • McFlock 5.1.1.2.1
            15 November 2019 at 5:22 pm

            It's not that sort of question. Every storm is, and every storm isn't. You get a 1 in 50-year event, that's probably just bad luck even though it is part of "climate". You get ten of them in five years, we'd know most of them will be directly attributable to climate change, but we'd never know exactly which one.

            But Venice is built on crap ground and has been slowly sinking for centuries, and they keep building up and reclaiming. Fascinating history.

            • weka 5.1.1.2.1.1
              15 November 2019 at 5:46 pm

              I think given the shit we are in it's reasonable to assume that climate change is affecting everything. It's a bit abstract to think that one storm is caused by CC and another isn't.

              Also, the intersection of human activity with CC. Building in South Dunedin seemed reasonable in the 1800s, not so much now, but has our thinking caught up yet? Does it matter what is caused by CC? We can focus on the pumps if we want, but ultimately seeing all the causative factors in the bigger picture will help us more.

  6. AB 6
    15 November 2019 at 11:43 am

    The fantasy of everything being fine if only we had perfectly regulated markets – Elizabeth Warren sounding surprisingly silly for a very smart person.

  9. marty mars 9
    15 November 2019 at 4:59 pm

    Yeah I was only joking ha ha – the response will be funny.

    In a telephone interview with the Guardian, in response to a question about whether he was nervous that Trump might “throw him under a bus” in the impeachment crisis, Giuliani said, with a slight laugh: “I’m not, but I do have very, very good insurance, so if he does, all my hospital bills will be paid.”

    Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert Costello, who was also on the call, then interjected: “He’s joking.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/rudy-giuliani-donald-trump-insurance-loyal

  10. Rosemary McDonald 10
    15 November 2019 at 5:06 pm

    So. Pharmac. Didn't they do well?

    Four deaths now, possibly due to patients having to accept generic epilepsy medication.

    Pharmac kind of relaxing its 'exceptional circumstances ' provision but it's too late for the victims.

    Ho hum. Those here steadfastly defending Pharmac's determined stance on this despite Medsafe advising caution….how do you feel now?

    • McFlock 10.1
      15 November 2019 at 5:25 pm

      If it was 400 deaths, it would clearly be a scandal.

      4… is the rate any higher than one would expect without med change?

      • gsays 10.1.1
        15 November 2019 at 6:05 pm

        Fairly brutal observation McFlock.

        400 is your indication of a scandal. I would suggest that if 4 have died because 'balance sheet' then someone should be facing gaol time.

        I suppose with all the euthanasia talk around, life is cheap.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          15 November 2019 at 10:09 pm

          I was pulling a number that would be a demonstrable change in mortality rate.

          Life isn't cheap. It can be very expensive. Pharmac's job is to save as many lives as possible for the given $$$.

          • gsays 10.1.1.1.1
            16 November 2019 at 8:55 am

            "..the given $$$."

            That's the crux of it there I reckon. Many say Pharmac's budget needs to increase.

            In the context of euthanasia, I would speculate that the lack of $ will contribute to some folk being euthanized inappropriately.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.1
              16 November 2019 at 6:29 pm

              Euthanasia is a whole other discussion.

              No matter what pharmac's budget is, there will always be someone who wants more money spent on a medication that might or might not have any effect. Last time it was herceptin.

              We have yet to see whether this latest funding decision reversal is the result of the substitution being a genuine error with clinical consequnces, or another case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

              • Andre …
                16 November 2019 at 6:44 pm

                Medsafe's advice to Pharmac against making the change makes for deeply uncomfortable reading. Not because of the potential for increased deaths, which Medsafe didn't mention and it has yet to be demonstrated that there actually are increased deaths due to the change, but because of the likelihood of extreme adverse quality of life effects for those do suffer adverse effects from the change.

                https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6025152-MedSafe-OIA.html

                • McFlock …
                  16 November 2019 at 7:30 pm

                  Yeah – the bit about rejecting studies funded by pharmacorps when they disagree with pharmac's decision even though pharmac as a policy accepts such studies is a suggestion that the move was a done deal before consultation.

      • Rosemary McDonald 10.1.2
        15 November 2019 at 6:31 pm

        There seems to be a theme…patient seizure free for many years, is dispensed generic by pharmacy with sticker reassuring patient that it is the same drug just a different colour. Patient has sudden seizure and dies.

        Thing is McFlock…as far as I know one is allowed to criticize a decision made by one of our State's agencies

        This is not treason.

        Pharmac may be the hard arsed deal-makers needed to drive the bargaining for affordable drugs for all…but when another State agency strongly advises caution against a particular cost saving measure because of, well, lives….

        Pharmac forgot the Rule..

        First do no harm.

        Hope y'all listened to Espiner's interviewing Herr Doktor this evening.

        What a warm man. Overflowing with the milk of human kindness. How well we are served. Sarc.

        • McFlock 10.1.2.1
          15 November 2019 at 10:11 pm

          To argue "first do no harm" when harm has not been established might not be treason, but it is unreasonable.

          The theme you outline happens regularly in NZ, with and without medication changes.

      • Incognito 10.1.3
        15 November 2019 at 6:38 pm

        Sudden unexpected death in epilepsy (SUDEP)

        If a person with epilepsy dies and no other cause of death can be found, this is called SUDEP (sudden unexpected death in epilepsy).

        How common is SUDEP?

        SUDEP is less common in children than in adults.

        • In one year, SUDEP typically affects about 1 in 1,000 adults with epilepsy; in other words, 999 of 1000 adults will not be affected by SUDEP
        • In one year, SUDEP typically affects about 1 in 4,500 children with epilepsy; in other words, 4499 of 4500 children will not be affected by SUDEP.

        Who is at risk of SUDEP?

        The cause of SUDEP is unknown but there are some things that can increase the risk of SUDEP:

        • having tonic-clonic seizures (previously call grand-mal seizures)
        • having seizures at night or seizures when asleep
        • having poorly controlled epilepsy, usually because of not taking medication regularly as prescribed.

        https://www.healthnavigator.org.nz/health-a-z/e/epilepsy/

        The incidence of SUDEP in New Zealand is not known but using this figure it is estimated that approximately 40 people with epilepsy in New Zealand die from SUDEP every year.

        http://epilepsy.org.nz/viewobj/abn_poster_sudep1_pb_003_.pdf?objID=363

    • marty mars 10.2
      15 November 2019 at 5:47 pm

      terrible for all users of those drugs and especially for the victims and their families – appears a change happening

      In a statement, Pharmac's medical director Dr Ken Clark said "we understand the news of the three deaths of patients taking Lamotrigine will concern people. We don't know if this is linked to the brand change – and we don't want people to stop taking their medication out of fear so we're making it easier for people to stay on their current brand if their doctor believes it is the right thing for them."

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403367/pharmac-backs-down-on-epilepsy-drug-brand-switch

  11. The Chairman 11
    15 November 2019 at 11:44 pm

    Professor Andrew Geddis, an expert on constitutional and electoral law at Otago University, believes the New Zealand First Foundation did not provide the level of transparency the public needed, especially from a party with ministers in government."

    It's an odd beast because it's not clear why it exists," he said of the foundation.

    He said one possible explanation was the foundation was used "to allow money to be given for the benefit of the New Zealand First party without going through the usual disclosure requirements".

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403141/mysterious-foundation-loaning-new-zealand-first-money

    It may be legal, but it shouldn't be.

    • David Mac 11.1
      15 November 2019 at 11:58 pm

      I'll give you a good deal on your furniture and drive you to the airport as soon as tomorrow. Why on earth do you continue to tolerate this shit-hole?

      OK, that's not going to work. You need only respond "None of the people I love will leave the shit-hole with me, they like frolicking in feces."

    • lprent 11.2
      16 November 2019 at 12:18 am

      It may be legal, but it shouldn’t be

      Many authors here over the last 12 years has said that non-transparent funding of political parties is an rort (or words to that effect) at one point or another. If you go back 11-12 years you’ll find that we tried to get this crap closed down over and over again.

      Just for instance consider r0b with https://thestandard.org.nz/what-can-you-buy-with-5×10000/ which looks like exactly the same kind of thing with a slightly different mechanism.

      Or Steve P with https://thestandard.org.nz/open-up-the-trusts/

      Or me with https://thestandard.org.nz/political-funding-have-your-say/ where i said

      The Electoral Finance Act 2008 tightened the rules for anonymous donations. But they are still in my opinion far too lax, inherently undemocratic, and too susceptible to abuse. The voters should know who is funding political parties.

      The only real solution for donations are that all donations above a minimal value need to have a single person responsible for and required by law to fully account for the sources of funding – however small. That includes such things as the organisers of raffles and trusts.

      Or political parties can only get funded by the state.

      I prefer the latter. I’m willing to accept the former.

      In the meantime could you suggest a alternate mechanism that would prevent such rorts happening – because when I look at the kinds of corruption that comes with practices like this one https://thestandard.org.nz/ross-resigns-to-lay-corrupt-practices-complain-against-bridges-with-police/ with its allegation of a $100k donation to National being broken down into non-declarable $15k packets – I can’t see one.

      All of those were apparently legal at the time (except maybe the last – can’t remember seeing the police response to that). Each change to tighten up has had fatal flaws and more rorts. It seems to be in the nature of politicians that they simply cannot be trusted to write the legislation required to control their own carnal behavior.

      But I suspect that you’re going to simply be your dimwitted critical self. Once more tirelessly and fruitlessly simpering on the sidelines criticising those who actually try to do something about such practices. Basically I can’t see you doing anything except for presenting yourself as being hypocritical jerk – as usual.

      • The Chairman 11.2.1
        16 November 2019 at 12:38 am

        I'm with you on this one lprent. State funding seems the most logical.

        Moreover, campaigns should be simplified. Give all parties some airtime on TV to put forward their policies and allow them all to have a mass debate thereafter. And that's it. No more billboards, ads, etc.

        • lprent 11.2.1.1
          16 November 2019 at 1:28 am

          Who watches ‘free-to-air’ TV any more?

          I haven’t since 2012 because the advertising just wastes my time and disrupts the few bits of time that I have to watch TV – I haven’t seen anything on it worth watching in a decade. It isn’t exactly a mass media any more – it only caters to the elderly, the technophobic conservatives, and the idiotic. At least that seems to be who they are catering for – from the ‘news’ to the local content.

          Perhaps you should (re-)read my last post on the subject.
          https://thestandard.org.nz/the-fast-death-of-broadcast-free-to-air-tv/
          I’m not exactly a minority in this, especially with the 40 and under age groups

          I’d personally prefer to pour state money down a sewer rather than spend any more on television, it’d have a better chance of remaining productive and clean (think of MAFS for instance).

          As it is I both spend my own money to get something I can be bothered watching, and I pay wasted taxes on the drivel that is free-to-air TV. The RNZ National programme I like, the concert programme is worth supporting, but television as it currently stands isn’t worth wasting money on.

          Perhaps the RNZ non-commercial model should just take over TVNZ? After all it appears to be climbing in audience and not contracting. https://www.rnz.co.nz/about/audience-research

          Nationwide, the weekly cumulative audience for RNZ National is 599,800 New Zealanders of the 10 plus population.

          Among all radio stations in New Zealand, RNZ National’s station share of 11.1%.

          The weekly cumulative audience for RNZ Concert is 165,600 or 3.8% of the 10+ population.

          The weekly cumulative audience for RNZ (National and Concert combined) is 669,600 people aged 10+ years or 15.4% of the NZ population. Many Concert listeners also listen to National.

          • The Chairman 11.2.1.1.1
            16 November 2019 at 1:58 am

            They could also stream it live and have it on demand to better fit in with peoples schedules.

            But I hear what you are saying about declining viewership, therefore have no problem with a RNZ non-commercial model take over.

            Not to sure about your viewing taste but I found this show (links below) of late to be rather good.

            https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/the-capture/episodes/s1-e1

            • lprent 11.2.1.1.1.1
              17 November 2019 at 12:19 am

              Went and checked it out. Looks interesting.

              However the usual screw up that I have come to expect from all of the media websites.

              The ubuntu system is on the correct timezone, running chrome, and this system is almost direct out to the net. It sits behind a bog standard ethernet router hooked on to a fibre connection. There is a pinhole firewall in there. In other words the default setup for most desktop systems (apart from linux).

              I even trapped the transmitted data and the location looked ok in there as well. Just a bug in the TVNZ streaming provider.

              Oh well, I’ll have a look around to see if there are other legit sources that are competently run. It may work on android… But basically this is too much trouble already. I was going to look at it on my 4k monitor.

              Otherwise there are providers who are actually competent and fast – unlike TVNZ on-demand.

          • weka 11.2.1.1.2
            16 November 2019 at 9:07 am

            I'm guessing the other group that watches free to air is poor people. I don't know what's happening with broadband prices these days, but the whole computer/streaming thing is not cheap if you have no money. One (partial) solution there would be for WINZ to consider internet access as a basic need.

            The other problem at the moment is the weird way that the networks manage their streaming and on demand access. I can't figure out how to watch The Nation other than having to turn up right at 9.30am on a Saturday morning (streaming). Which never happens, so I'm out of the #nzpol twitter convos immediately. If you go to their webpage the on demand videos for The Nation are random, the first one I just clicked on is from August.

            This may be TV3 cutting costs pre-sale, but I remember it being like that at other times too and I just gave up.

            I find the sign-in for general on demand for either network a big cumbersome, which I can resolve if it bothers me. I often it takes time to find what I want to watch, I think because of how the networks are trying to corral viewers (you're supposed to become a loyal viewer I guess then they push stuff at you). Quite often I just give up. I've been thinking I should just get a TV for the 2020 election.

            I think there is a case for not putting political content behind a tracking wall though. Mentioning this because the TVNZ/RNZ merger proposal includes paywalls and ads.

            Also, rural internet speeds still often suck.

            All of that is resolvable, and streaming and broadcast seem the way to go, but I'm not particularly confident that we would get it right.

            • weka 11.2.1.1.2.1
              16 November 2019 at 9:09 am

              This popped up in my twitter feed this morning. Free, high speed internet for all Brits via a publicly owned company (tied in with job creation, economy, working from home)

              https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1195250079143223296

              • Sacha …
                17 November 2019 at 9:18 am

                The UK is starting a long way behind, thanks to slavish neoliberalism: https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784

                But, in 1990, then Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, decided that BT's rapid and extensive rollout of fibre optic broadband was anti-competitive and held a monopoly on a technology and service that no other telecom company could do.

                "Unfortunately, the Thatcher government decided that it wanted the American cable companies providing the same service to increase competition. So the decision was made to close down the local loop roll out and in 1991 that roll out was stopped.

            • solkta 11.2.1.1.2.2
              16 November 2019 at 9:26 am

              I can't figure out how to watch The Nation other than having to turn up right at 9.30am on a Saturday morning (streaming)

              It is very easy. Go to: https://www.threenow.co.nz/ Scroll down to: NEWS AND CURRENT AFFAIRS and select it. 41 episodes available there if you feel like a binge.

              edit

              the first one there is last weeks for me using chrome. sorry should have read that last sentence properly.

              edit edit

              same with firefox

              • weka …
                16 November 2019 at 9:50 am

                yeah, but if I miss the stream (or broadcast) at 9.30am I can't watch it in time to take part in #nzpol convos because they don't put the on demand up until some random time later. It's current affairs, people are talking about it on the day, it's bizarre they're not making that available. I don't know if that's a technical issue, but I had assumed it was how they wanted to do it in terms of controlling how people view their content.

                Even more bizarrely, I followed your instructions and there is no sign of the live stream, which should be happening right now. FFS.

                It shouldn't be this hard.

                • solkta …
                  16 November 2019 at 9:57 am

                  To get the live stream you need to go via "Live TV and Guide". Watching now. TERF stuff.

                  Yes it is annoying that stuff comes ondemand at random times after the live stream.

                  • weka …
                    16 November 2019 at 10:03 am

                    "To get the live stream you need to go via "Live TV and Guide"

                    Right. It's not like they're going to make it easy, you have to know your way around the website and how they organise content. It's daft.

                    Imagine you can't remember the name of the show, they don't even have a live stream link on TV3's front page ffs. Compare to RNZ's front page,

                    https://www.rnz.co.nz/

                    • solkta …
                      16 November 2019 at 10:08 am

                      The thing that annoys me most about the three site is that you need to click into the live stream of each sub-channel just to see the guide.

                • Sacha …
                  17 November 2019 at 9:27 am

                  I don't know if that's a technical issue, but I had assumed it was how they wanted to do it in terms of controlling how people view their content.

                  More basic than that: their systems still require humans to make the clips available to view – so it's about paying them on a weekend vs the return on that. Other tasks are more profitable. Civic conversations do not factor into commercial broadcasting.

                  By comparison, RNZ has a fully-automated post-broadcast publishing pipeline because they had a very smart tech boss years ago when it was created (who also made their site a model of universal accessibility just because it was the right thing to do). I guess you could call that a technical issue.

                  • weka …
                    17 November 2019 at 9:57 am

                    thanks, re technical, I wasn't sure how easy it was to automate or to enable livestreaming where you can start watching the start half way through the stream (this is possible, just not sure how easy).

                    And yep, the driving force of profit doesn't serve us.

            • solkta 11.2.1.1.2.3
              16 November 2019 at 9:40 am

              I find the sign-in for general on demand for either network a big cumbersome

              I don't. I create a login with whatever name comes to mind and leave it logged in. I never remember the passwords. TVNZ has logged me out a couple of times over several years but i just create a new login.

              edit

              I use Chrome for TV and radio and Firefox for internet with Chrome set up so two windows for each TV site and windows for George FM and Ngati Hine FM open automatically.

              • weka …
                16 November 2019 at 9:53 am

                I don't log out and then both networks log me out at some point (also not a fan of staying logged in because I assume it enhances tracking). I need to write down the login details and make them easily accessible on my desktop. Which I will no doubt do next year for the election to make my life easier, but I think there is a case for actual free to stream for politics during an election year.

              • lprent …
                16 November 2019 at 10:41 am

                The problem with that approach is that it sort of works when you jump across multiple machines with chrome and firefox – but not quite.

                I routinely use at least 5-10 computers during a day. Between work laptops, mobiles and tablets, base systems, and TVs it gets to be a mess trying to have remembered login names and passwords – all of which need to be updated.

                But the real issue is that the TV sites want you to jump through their promo pages and ads. So they don’t have good persistent links. I usually can’t have a link direct to what I want to watch. There is always a new hoop to jump through with media sites. I prefer to use the attention time for login hoops like that for things that I work with – like email, messaging, slack, stackoverflow, man pages, language reference sites etc – so I seldom bother.

                I’m certainly not going to waste that valuable attention to detail on sites that are basically trying to sell me stuff.

                • solkta …
                  16 November 2019 at 11:23 am

                  Good point about multiple devices. I only us a desktop for interwebs. TV as a cascaded second screen.

                  Agree the Three site is a dog with intrusive ads but i find the TVNZ site easy to use with minimal ads and no hoops. I have Crome set to open two windows of the ondemad page on startup. The first two rows with no ads are favourites and new.

                  • weka …
                    16 November 2019 at 1:02 pm

                    do you mean they don't play ads on those videos?

                    • solkta …
                      16 November 2019 at 1:20 pm

                      I was meaning on the page itself. No ads at all on the ondemand page, not even self-promoting. One small commercial ad on the homepage, and some for shows but you would expect that. The videos themselves have about a third of the ad time of the live stream.

            • lprent 11.2.1.1.2.4
              16 November 2019 at 10:27 am

              I’m guessing the other group that watches free to air is poor people.

              Oh I agree. To a large extent they are catering to that market. It shows in content of the adverts in particular.

              It is just that I have zero interest in anything where I can figure out the inevitable ‘story’ pattern within 10 minutes of the first episode. Or in the case of something like MAFS, without even seeing more than a few paragraphs of promotional stories in the NZ Herald. Similarly I don’t find much to be interested in with the slow unrolling of news or current affairs punctuated by inane ads for something that I already read online days or even weeks earlier.

              The problem is that there are viable alternatives these days without ads and on-demand. So what is happening is that free-to-air is becoming a broadcast media desolation that is losing the more affluent and time constrained of their audience to anything else. That means that the support for a free-to-air network model is being continuously eroded.

              As the number of audience who have the income to be really interesting to advertisers stop watching, the number of and length of ad breaks increases to drop costs – driving more of their audience with choices away. Ads targeting those groups get increasingly concentrated around the things that draw them back – like political debates or current affairs or the news or local content or satire. Driving them away from that as well.

              But there is a need as a society to maintain public broadcasting systems for a whole host of reasons that I won’t describe right now. The problem is that when the system is orientated around advertising or even competitive advertorials (advertising upcoming shows etc) when there are viable alternatives without those factors, the public support for maintaining a free-to-air system diminishes as well.

              I find the sign-in for general on demand for either network a big cumbersome, which I can resolve if it bothers me. I often it takes time to find what I want to watch,

              That is how I find it as well. Apart from anything else they seem to delight in not having persistent links to content. You have to jump through pages and hoops to the point where it is easier to just dig a snippet off youtube (permanent links and no sign ins) to see if it looks interesting – and if it isn’t on one of the existing subscriptions to fire up a torrent. After all I’ll lose interest in most things half way through the first episode if the storyline has been cribbed from shakespeare et al yet again. Or we have ‘celebrity’ fools like Hosking (who I have never seen) posturing that they can moderate political debate.

              I think there is a case for not putting political content behind a tracking wall though. Mentioning this because the TVNZ/RNZ merger proposal includes paywalls and ads.

              Yeah. You either have public money funding open political debate or you don’t. None of the political content in NZ runs without large support from state funding. It shouldn’t have either paywalls or adverts. It should just be available online.

              Also, rural internet speeds still often suck.

              I know. Otherwise I’d have been living in Glenorchy 2 decades ago.

              Mostly that is currently an issue of maintaining above ground copper networks. While cell-systems are a viable way to put in network infrastructure, their bandwidth is a direct function of distance and weather (ie it is an issue of attenuation). Thee more bandwidth, the closer the tower have to be together – which is why there will be a lot of infill for 5G in urban areas.

              Besides they require a higher speed network to get to cell towers anyway. Basically fibre has few limitations over time and is the approach that needs to be taken (unless quantum entangling becomes more than curiosity).

              They have pretty well wired up the urban areas with fiber-optic now – ie max people at least cable length. We need to start biting the bullet and look at a decades long project to persistently (ie underground) keep getting fibre into smaller communities. There really isn’t a good technical way to fibre out to the farms. The lengths are long and the maintenance costs mount up over longer lengths – even underground.

  13. Eco maori 13
    17 November 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Condolences to Nancy Brunning Whanau.

    The Auckland City rail link will save Aotearoa burning a lot of carbon.

    All the best on your new journey Gareth.

    I think that DIY cervical smears will improve the diagnosis of Wahine cervical cancer.

    That's awesome Paris highlighting our Ocean problems with their Christmas parades.

    Ka kite Ano

  14. Eco maori 14
    17 November 2019 at 6:49 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Nancy has quite a lot of mahi on Maori made films she will be missed.

    I remember when the reserve in Te Tairawhiti had Kai moana in it before the same as it has now with the reservation. Its great to see Te Kai Moana return to the reservation in great numbers we need reservations like that all around Aotearoa.

    Awsome that Ngāti Oneone are planting native trees on their Moanga.

    Ka kite Ano

  15. Eco maori 15
    18 November 2019 at 8:43 am

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Ka pai to the Champion Chest playing tamariki.

    Ka kite Ano

  16. Eco maori 16
    18 November 2019 at 11:10 am

    Coal is old dirty technology that needs to be banished to our history books.

    Two of America’s biggest coal plants closed this month

    First the dirtiest ones began shutting down. Then it was the old ones. Now it’s some of the biggest. America’s coal plants are turning off the boilers, facing brutal economics and customers fleeing for natural gas and renewable energy.

    This week, Arizona’s 2.25-GW Navajo Generating Station burned its last load of coal after no buyers turned up during a two-year search

    This week, Arizona’s 2.25-GW Navajo Generating Station burned its last load of coal after no buyers turned up during a two-year search. Trade publication Utility Dive reports that the fate of the financially ailing plant was sealed after a bid to force an Arizona water agency to buy its electricity failed. The Navajo station emitted about 20 million metric tons of carbon dioxide each year, equivalent to 3.3 million cars. It’s one of the biggest retirements in a year of massive shutdowns.

    The second is Pennsylvania’s 2.7-GW Bruce Mansfield unit. The plant’s bankrupt owner began shutdown on Nov. 7, almost two years ahead of schedule. It was the state’s largest coal-fired plant, operating for 40 years.

    Together, the two retirements equal all the emission reductions from coal plant shut-downs in 2015, a record year when 15 GW of mostly smaller and older units were shuttered, reports Scientific American. Last year, 14 GW were mothballed. In 2020, more are on the way, including Kentucky’s Paradise plant.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://qz.com/1749023/two-of-americas-biggest-coal-plants-closed-this-month/amp/

    • Eco maori 16.1
      18 November 2019 at 2:21 pm

      Thanks to The European Investment Bank for their move to protect our mokopuna future from a carbon polluted environment.

      The European Investment Bank has agreed to phase out its multibillion-euro financing for fossil fuels within the next two years to become the world’s first ‘“climate bank”.

      The bank will end its financing of oil, gas, and coal projects after 2021, a policy that will make the EU’s lending arm the first multilateral lender to rule out financing for projects that contribute to the climate crisis.

      The decision to stem the flow of capital into fossil fuel projects has been welcomed by green groups as an important step towards the EU’s aim to be carbon-neutral by 2050.

      The EIB, the world’s largest multilateral financial institution, described its decision as a “quantum leap” in ambition. “Climate is the top issue on the political agenda of our time,” said the bank’s president, Werner Hoyer. “We will stop financing fossil fuels and launch the most ambitious climate investment strategy of any public financial institution anywhere.”

      The bank’s vice-president, Andrew McDowell, said the move was “an important first step – not the last step, but probably one of the most difficult.”

      Under its new policy, the bank will end all lending to fossil fuels within two years and align all funding decisions with the Paris climate accord. Energy projects applying for EIB funding will have to show they can produce one kilowatt hour of energy while emitting less than 250 grammes of carbon dioxide.

      Ka kite Ano link below.

      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/15/european-investment-bank-to-phase-out-fossil-fuels-financing