Open mike 15/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 15th, 2024 - 77 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

77 comments on “Open mike 15/11/2024 ”

  1. Bearded Git 1
    15 November 2024 at 6:41 am

    I would have thought that a clever submission to Seymour's Treaty busting bill could suggest amendments that explained, and further set in concrete, the rights of Maori found in te Tiriti.

    That would be wonderfully ironic.

    Reply
    • Dennis Frank 1.1
      15 November 2024 at 8:50 am

      Also entertaining. Yet there appears to be nobody on the left who is sufficiently clever to do what you are suggesting. If you think of one who may qualify as sufficiently clever, name that person so we can all watch them carefully to see if they do.

      Reply
      • Koina 1.1.1
        15 November 2024 at 9:55 am

        Ehara maku te ki.

        Perish the thought that I might be deemed to be clever.

        But a few ideas for those much smarter than me.

        First of all use the word "Cheaty" in any such debate

        Remind everyone that the invading Whites never intended to honour the Cheaty.

        It was simply to give the White invaders time to bring in the 14,000 strong military.

        So in 1840 vastly outnumbered the White invaders said you can trust us.

        B 1863 with the army in place the White invaders said

        Get the f#ck off our land Maaris.

        Then remind everyone that 180 years later the Pakeha have actually paid back

        just 1% of what was stolen.

        So "Where is the 99%" will become the go to message on tik tok

        Ask why George Grey who ordered the invasion of the Waikato has not yet been retrospectively prosecuted by the White courts.

        And why Grey the mass murder was instead awarded a Knighthood,

        A good time to say a Maori steals a car the White court puts him in prison

        a White steals a country the White court gives him a Knighthood.

        Why all the White murdering soldiers who invaded the Waikato have not yet been retrospectively prosecuted by the White courts.

        Why Queen Victoria has not yet been retrospectively prosecuted .

        Why the Popes and Arch Bishops of Canterbury in those times have

        yet to be prosecuted by the White courts.

        Why every British Prime Minister and New Zealand Governor or Prime Minister 1840-1890 have not yet been prosecuted by the White courts.

        And to educate the young generation above every primary school gateway

        a memorial should read

        To our Maori Tupuna men women and children

        who gave their lives defending our homelands

        against the White invasion.

        Give it 30 – 40 years and I think the message just might start getting through.

        But I am not clever by half or even a quarter.

        Ma Koutou te iwi matatau Ngati Pakeha te ki

        Reply
        • roblogic 1.1.1.1
          15 November 2024 at 3:12 pm

          Well stated Koina.

          Seymour wants to whitewash over centuries of pain and suffering and dispossession. Many thousands of amendments should be submitted demanding justice before our bloody history can be laid to rest.

          Reply
  2. Bearded Git 2
    15 November 2024 at 7:00 am

    Harris lost 75-72 and got more votes that Biden in 3 of the battleground states.

    If this had been a basketball match it would have been called a cliffhanger.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-votes-trump-election-swing-states-b2645211.html

    Reply
    • Jenny 2.1
      15 November 2024 at 8:29 am

      Went millions of data points collected comparing two separate things, gave a result in the margin of error, most statistical analysts would conclude that those two things were essentially identical.

      Reply
    • Ad 2.2
      15 November 2024 at 11:11 am

      BG why do you persist in proclaiming that Harris nearly won?

      It's like you haven't got through the first stage of grief.

      A reminder: Republicans now control all branches of US central government, and govern most of the states as well. Doesn't matter what vote margin.

      Republican leaders are undertaking a root-and-branch removal of institutions set up under both Roosevelts and continued for 90 years. Not even a full NZ Parliament majority of ACT would do what they are doing.

      Reply
      • Tiger Mountain 2.2.1
        15 November 2024 at 11:34 am

        Well, the fat, burger munching, Dodge Ram drivers did it to themselves…aided of course by Musk’s “Shitter X” algorithms, Electoral College, Gerrymandering, voter suppression and enrolment specs, and much voter alienation.

        Enjoy, have fun yankee devils! Heh, if there is any voter remorse I guess they do have Mid Terms in a couple of years–if there still are Mid Terms of course.

        Reply
      • SPC 2.2.2
        15 November 2024 at 12:31 pm

        Given you agree about the somewhat marginal size of the defeat, and there is little evidence of any persistent posting on that point (or any posting about the result till now) … wtf.

        Reply
      • Bearded Git 2.2.3
        15 November 2024 at 2:04 pm

        I didn't say she nearly won, but I do think she came much closer than Trump admits. You will see that The Independent thinks this too.

        The MSM is portraying Trump's victory as "sweeping". It wasn't.

        Reply
        • Dennis Frank 2.2.3.1
          15 November 2024 at 2:53 pm

          To be fair, she performed competently. Her problem was trying to sell an unpalatable product. The facts are that T won a clean sweep: all swing states, house & senate & presidency. Why get stuck in denial??

          Reply
          • SPC 2.2.3.1.1
            15 November 2024 at 3:10 pm

            The margins in the three elections were small.

            Thus indicating little about either "product".

            Incumbents have been losing worldwide – centrists, right and left.

            Inflation higher than since the 70’s/80’s and the resort to high interest rates to manage it back down not being conducive to popularity.

            Reply
            • Dennis Frank 2.2.3.1.1.1
              15 November 2024 at 3:14 pm

              Valid points. My only quibble is that undecideds fell towards Trump & Republicans in the final stretch of the campaign, after a long period of neck & neck parity in the polls. So it seems a definitive verdict despite small margin.

              Reply
              • SPC …
                15 November 2024 at 3:48 pm

                It was not a long period. Harris was a late candidate and did not get parity till the convention Aug-Sept.

                She needed momentum afterwards, as Clinton and Biden struggled in the marginal states despite strong leads in the polls.

                Yet the October polls showed a close race.

                Rather than there being late change in the polls, it was a growing awareness that she only had a chance in 3 of the marginals – thus only one path to win.

                Yet she faced Arab and Moslem discontent in Michigan (over Biden Gaza policy) and a large increase in GOP registration in Pennsylvania (since 2020).

                The significant observation from voting samples is less support from Latino men for Harris than for Biden.

                My only quibble is that undecideds fell towards Trump & Republicans in the final stretch of the campaign

                Do you have poll sampling on this? The pro Trump pollsters Rasmussen and Trafalgar showed him leading the entire time and once again were most accurate.

                Reply
            • Bearded Git 2.2.3.1.1.2
              15 November 2024 at 3:59 pm

              Agree..Labour suffered here on the Cost of Living issue; the Conservatives in the UK too. Neither of them were responsible for it.

              Harris was handed a poisoned chalice and did ok.

              Reply
              • Morrissey …
                15 November 2024 at 5:28 pm

                Harris was handed a poisoned chalice and did ok.

                Would you mind elaborating on those assertions? Did she have to accept the poisoned chalice? Couldn't she have insisted on a new chalice, one marked "non-genocidal" and "different to Trump's border policy"?

                And how did she do okay, exactly?

                Reply
                • Bearded Git …
                  16 November 2024 at 11:12 am

                  I agree 100% re the genocide Morrissey-it is disgusting what is happening in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon. Biden was pathetic on this and Harris did nothing.

                  But Trump of course will be worse (already 3 calls to Netanyahu rumoured) so I'm not sure how much changing her position on this issue would have helped her.

                  I don't think Harris was a stellar candidate but still say she did ok. One problem was that Trump carried the youth vote through his constant lies, Rogan's blog, X and Musk's bribes. The young are somewhat in thrall to Musk-the richest man in the world, brilliant proponent of environmentally friendly EV's etc etc They haven't seen through him because they get their info from the net.

                  Another problem was that she concentrated too much on the abortion debate which turned off many Latinos.

                  And she failed to put forward an economic policy different to Biden.

                  mmm….maybe you have a point.

                  Reply
    • SPC 2.3
      15 November 2024 at 12:41 pm

      The ones in 2000 and 1960 were closest.

      But in this century, it has emerged that the close election is being decided on holding 3 rust belt states. 2016 Trump, 2020 Biden (+Georgia/Arizona), 2024 Trump (+Nevada).

      The DC can choose Josh (Pennsylvania) and Gretchen (Michigan) to hunt down Vance in 2028.

      Reply
  3. Dennis Frank 3
    15 November 2024 at 8:06 am

    Satire acquires heft via dollars in the US: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/14/onion-buys-alex-jones-infowars-00189555

    Satirical publication The Onion has purchased Infowars and all of its assets at auction, dealing a final blow to internet rabble-rouser Alex Jones’ conspiracy empire. The acquisition, announced Thursday, came with the support of families of children who were killed in the Sandy Hook school shooting, who had previously won a $1.4 billion defamation verdict

    The Onion said it will immediately shut down Infowars — which peddled a litany of conspiracy theories while also hawking supplements — and work with the gun safety organization Everytown for Gun Safety to transition it into a humor site, which it said would launch in January.

    Way cool eh? Yanks falling about laughing at the notion that guns can be safe! I suppose they could market the concept with finesse, so I'd best not prejudge.

    Reply
  4. Descendant Of Smith 4
    15 November 2024 at 8:33 am

    I often see stories like this from a older particularly male generation who are the same who complain about young people and Maori sense of entitlement. They truly want the world to revolve around their wants and reckons.

    He could of course buy a little block of land and apply to the ministry of health to have it set aside as a private graveyard and then do what he wishes.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360484968/grieving-husband-devastated-after-council-rejects-request-fulfil-wifes-last-wish

    A grieving husband, whose wife’s last wish was to plant a tree, says he is angry and frustrated after a council declined his plantation request.

    Reply
    • tWig 4.1
      15 November 2024 at 4:21 pm

      I can understand his issue:

      "Christ said he spent a little over $1000 to make arrangements to plant a tree on the land, which is owned by the council. He filed forms and sent multiple emails to the council seeking permission, but all he heard from them was that they were working on it, he said.:

      It's the delay that's the problem, and possibly someone at the council who told him at the start, 'just apply, it'll be fine."

      On the other hand, now it's in the national press, I am sure the council will bend over backwards to fulfil the request somehow, if not in the manner first desired. So complaining to the media does have an impact.

      Reply
  5. alwyn 5
    15 November 2024 at 8:38 am

    I think that Trump has a very easy answer to people who complain about his plan to make Matt Gaetz the Attorney-General.

    He could simply steal John Kennedy's line when he made his brother Robert the AG.

    ""I can't see that it's wrong to give him a little legal experience before he goes out to practice law."

    Reply
  6. Koina 6
    15 November 2024 at 9:07 am

    Imagine a rainbow coloured cap with MAGA written on it.

    Make America Gay Again.

    Reply
  7. Hunter Thompson II 7
    15 November 2024 at 9:18 am

    Need a laugh?

    Try this item from the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y54dzz4g9o (fraudulent insurance claim where man dressed as bear damages Rolls Royce).

    Reply
  8. Jenny 8
    15 November 2024 at 9:51 am

    How is a genocide made possible?

    It starts with words.

    The Big Lie Technique

    Reply
  9. SPC 9
    15 November 2024 at 10:17 am

    The big lie technique.

    It is routine, the candidate for SCOTUS say that no one, not them nor POTUS is above the law.

    6 recently determined that POTUS when acting in that role.

    Donald J Trump said he did know much about Project 2025 (despite flying in private jets with its leaders), now people like Walsh, Bannon et al are holding the document and saying, yes this is the plan.

    Reply
    • Morrissey 9.1
      15 November 2024 at 11:15 am

      Thanks for that Jenny. The propaganda has been systematically debunked by the Electronic Intifada….

      A lot of those thugs in Amsterdam have no doubt been engaged in the destruction of civilian lives and infrastructure in Gaza, the Occupied West Bank, and Lebanon. They're very good at using U.S./Europe-supplied bombs to kill doctors, nurses and other civilians, but have failed to penetrate into Lebanon and do some actual fighting….

      Reply
      • Jenny 9.1.1
        15 November 2024 at 3:55 pm

        The last line of your you tube video. "The lying is just off the charts"

        As the genocide in Gaza becomes even more grotesque, the liars become more hysterical and their lies more divorced from reality.

        Makes me wonder how long our news readers here will keep reading off the teleprompter without questioning the source.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/9/strong-likelihood-of-imminent-famine-in-north-gaza-food-security-experts

        Reply
        • Morrissey 9.1.1.1
          15 November 2024 at 5:16 pm

          Makes me wonder how long our news readers here will keep reading off the teleprompter without questioning the source.

          On 13 July 2010, people listening to the 5 a.m. news on RNZ National were treated to a rare example of a newsreader doing just that.

          Lloyd Scott is a sensitive and intelligent man, and he was clearly affected by having to read the following: “An Israeli military investigation into its own killing of nine peace workers has found there were errors of planning, intelligence and coordination but the killings were justified. It also rejected calls for an independent inquiry, saying that it would have been biased.” As he read this last sentence out, his voice rose in dismay.

          He read some more items and then the weather forecast. Then, several minutes later, Scott returned to the item about the “inquiry” into the murder of nine peace activists. He said: “That last bit really gets me, you know. Especially the last sentence: ‘An independent inquiry would have been biased.’ Does that mean the Israeli report into their own killing of peace activists was NOT biased?’

          Scott’s open disagreement with the content of his script was unusual. Other newsreaders and journalists on New Zealand radio and television often indicate their dissent at having to read out what are often little more than propaganda broadcasts and PR releases for Israel, but they are usually forced to be a little more circumspect. Greg Boyed on TV1 is adept at raising an eyebrow to undermine the nonsense he is forced to read out, and Peter Williams, Alastair Wilkinson, Cameron Bennett, Mark Crysell, Warwick Burke as well as many other newsreaders have clearly struggled to hide their visceral disgust at Israeli brutality and criminality while being forced to read words that have been crafted by others to disguise or excuse it.

          More dependably servile this morning was the BBC’s Adam Mynott, who read out the official Israeli statement without betraying even a quiver of emotion. …
          https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10052013/#comment-630836

          Alas, principled statements of dissent like that are almost non-existent on RNZ or TVNZ now. The Panel has been systematically purged of troublesome voices such as Gordon Campbell, Dita Di Boni and Martyn "Bomber" Bradbury, and Morning Report is safe in the hands of the dull but dependably on message Corin Dann and Ingrid Hipkiss. Dann features—if that's the right word for such a dismal performance—in this BSA report….

          https://www.bsa.govt.nz/decisions/all-decisions/new-zealand-jewish-council-and-radio-new-zealand-ltd-2024-005-7-may-2024

          Reply
          • Incognito 9.1.1.1.1
            15 November 2024 at 5:45 pm

            Yes, dear readers of The Standard, you guessed right and witnessed something rarer than a sprint race between a garden snail and a slug to a fresh lettuce after a Spring rain: Morrissey quoting Morrissey from a comment he made here 11.5 years ago about something he heard on the radio at the crack of dawn – the race between molluscs was in top gear – over 14 years ago. Strike me down with a feather duster.

            Reply
            • Morrissey 9.1.1.1.1.1
              15 November 2024 at 5:56 pm

              Yes, that was the point: there has been principled objection—clearly expressed in words, not by subtle displays of discomfort such as eyebrow raising, pausing meaningfully, or unhappily glaring at the camera—by a New Zealand broadcaster upset at the propaganda he has been given to read out, but it was a long time ago, as you have noted.

              Reply
              • Incognito …
                15 November 2024 at 6:08 pm

                I love the way you can interpret the body language of a radio presenter; you may have missed your calling as a music critic of a cappella pantomime choirs.

                Reply
                • Morrissey …
                  15 November 2024 at 6:24 pm

                  It's not hard to see the anguish of a newsreader required to read out something that is clearly biased and unfair. Everyone can see it; I like to draw attention to it to show that even those who are involved in the propaganda system are at heart decent people; their displays of discomfort are a signal that they are not on board with the agenda of the management.

                  Reply
                  • SPC …
                    15 November 2024 at 6:31 pm

                    LS should have been more pithy

                    "well they would say that, wouldn't they" (and did it, immediately after reading the statement).

                    or added some comment

                    they had it right until they said, "but ….

                    Reply
                  • Incognito …
                    15 November 2024 at 6:51 pm

                    Lloyd Scott was reading the news, on radio. Corin Dann was interviewing, on radio.

                    You here what you want to here, but you imagine the body language.

                    Real or perceived ‘discomfort’ may be a signal of personal disagreement; the absence of such ‘displays of discomfort’ may mean acceptance or agreement.

                    You’re reading way too much into newsreaders aka you’re obsessed with newsreaders, news channels, and style over substance.

                    Reply
                    • SPC …
                      16 November 2024 at 7:54 pm

                      The poor news reader is the straightman, the rainbow flavour comes from going to the reporter or analyst who provides the intelligent insight/context/perspective, that leaves us, the audience recipient, more fulfilled.

                    • Incognito []
                      16 November 2024 at 7:57 pm

                      Fulfilment only comes with infotainment.

              • Jenny …
                16 November 2024 at 9:48 am

                Morrissey @9.1.1.1.1.1

                15 November 2024 at 5:56 pm

                Yes, that was the point: there has been principled objection—clearly expressed in words, not by subtle displays of discomfort such as eyebrow raising, pausing meaningfully, or unhappily glaring at the camera—by a New Zealand broadcaster upset at the propaganda he has been given to read out,…..

                I fully concur.
                The term, 'a straight faced lie', is common parlance, for a reason.
                When someone tells you a lie while keeping a straight face, what they are trying to do, is make you believe that what they are telling you is the truth.

                The Britannica Dictionary

                Britannica Dictionary definition of STRAIGHT FACE

                • She lied with a straight face.

                See also; 'Brazen' and 'Barefaced'

                Dictionary.com

                https://www.dictionary.com/browse/barefaced-lie

                A shameless falsehood. For example, Bill could tell a barefaced lie with a straight face .

                Related; 'Gaslighting'

                …..the word is at home with other terms relating to modern forms of deception and manipulation, such as fake news and deepfake.

                ……lying, which tends to be between individuals, and fraud, which tends to involve organizations, gaslighting applies in both personal and political contexts,

                You only had to watch TVNZ One News last night to see newsreader Simon Dallow read out a blatant false hood completely 'straight faced', not the slightest inflection or show of emotion on his face.

                Surely, Simon Dallow as this country's preeminent and TVNZ leading news presenter should be aware that what he was reading out as solid fact was at the very least contested?

                Simon Dallow at TVNZ One News

                @20:07 minutes:

                "…..Tensions are running high, that's after 60 people were arrested in Amsterdam last week after supporters of a Tel Aviv football team were pursued and beaten by pro-Palestinian protesters."

                https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/one-news-at-6pm/episodes/s2024-e320

                Well that's not what happened. In fact the opposite, as video and witness testimony prove.

                Simon Dallow should be ashamed, either for knowingly repeating a lie with a straight face, or embarrassed at his total ignorance, that the version of events he was reading out and that he relayed to us as fact, was actually total bullshit.

                If it was the latter, then Simon couldn't do worse than reading these pages in The Standard, to become more informed, before making a total dick of himself on national television.

                P.S. It appears that rather than debating the substance of the issue under discussion, which is the allegation that Maccabi Tel Aviv fans were the victims rather than the perpetrators of this violence, we are wasting an inordinate amount of time on petty quibbles about semantics.

                Was what Simon Dallow read out to the nation last night a blatant lie or a fact?

                Let's talk about that.

                This is what we should be trying to determine. Instead it seems we spend an inordinate amount of time quibbling over idiom and form rather than substance.

                Reply
    • Drowsy M. Kram 9.2
      15 November 2024 at 11:51 am

      Thanks for the YouTube link – PoliticsGirl (Leigh McGowan) makes an impassioned rallying call against 'Might Makes Right'.

      But this idea that organization and community and goodness can’t stand up to any of this is fundamentally untrue. In many ways, America as we knew it might be over, but the ideas of democracy, human rights, civil rights, and knowing right from wrong, are not over, and if we want any sort of future, we can’t lay down now.

      "We have just joined a long list of countries that is trying out the strongman thing…

      And the first time I've read this – "Can't spell FELON without ELON" – many a US billionaire felon will be looking forward to their very own Trump makeover.

      Reply
      • SPC 9.2.1
        15 November 2024 at 11:57 am

        The ads can be avoided by moving through the videotimeline (do not tell her sponsors).

        Reply
      • tWig 9.2.2
        15 November 2024 at 4:26 pm

        Just read Paddy Gower's autobiography. He says of his time on the US campaign trail in 2016 and 2020 that visiting small rural towns made it shockingly clear that US social infrastructure and support has been steadily deteriorating. This is where Trump's voter base comes from. That they believe the lies trump sows is because they're primed by the breakdown of their communities.

        Opioid and meth addiction help pith out the social fabric, too.

        Reply
  10. Dennis Frank 10
    15 November 2024 at 10:23 am

    Diagnosis from the left:

    Trump pulled off double-digit gains in and around the country’s largest cities. He picked up 19 points in Miami-Dade County, 16 points in New York City, 14 points in Los Angeles County, 12 in Suffolk County (Boston), 11 points in Cook County (Chicago), 10 in Dallas County, and 9 in Wayne County (Detroit). Nassau County, on Long Island, voted for a Republican for president for the first time in decades. The Trump turn was so dramatic it made him the first Republican to win the popular vote in 20 years

    https://slate.com/business/2024/11/trump-shift-blue-cities-latino-minority-vote-news-source-tiktok-mainstream-media.html

    Apparently the effect was produced by Trumpian biodiversity:

    The most popular explanation for this shift has nothing to do with the big-city experience. Rather, it’s that cities are diverse, and minority voters are increasingly likely to vote for Republicans wherever they live. This is a powerful explanation of the left’s declining performance in and around cities: That’s where the Latino ideological shift was concentrated. According to a Washington Post analysis, the more diverse the county, the further the shift toward Trump.

    Then there's widespread preference for alternative reality:

    The replacement of professional news with TikTok and YouTube is often thought of as an axis between facts and bullshit, and polls do show a correlation between being wrong about major issues and voting for Trump. For example, respondents to a Reuters/Ipsos survey last month were much more likely to support Trump if they believed untrue statements about crime, the border, the stock market, and inflation… reality is happening on our phones.

    [DF headliner

    Copy & paste

    DF headliner

    Copy & paste

    DF headliner

    Copy & paste

    Rinse & repeat 40 min later (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15-11-2024/#comment-2017244)

    A cynic may say that this is the work of a bored lazy little mind wanting attention.

    A Mod may say, lift your game, stop with the farcical nonsense of being a pretend-centrist, and drop the arrogant anti-Left BS that you have been spewing over this site lately – Incognito]

    Reply
  11. SPC 11
    15 November 2024 at 10:49 am

    Virulent disease takes over the brain of its host.

    Trump names RFK Jr as his pick for health secretary

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0lp93494g9t

    What they do not like …

    Environment protection, Labour rights, Public Health, Public Education, Public Law (AG), SCOTUS, White House governance – they take it over to destroy it.

    Make no mistake, this is a colour revolution and the Republic has fallen.

    What is left is an empty shell.

    The Jan 6 coup is established with the right to trample over the fallen republic.

    Senator Tuberville says they will run opposition to the new regime off Capitol Hill.

    That was the southern Moral Majority strategy revenge of the HUAC legacy, RM Nixon and J Hoover.

    The Real War is over. And the US of A and the USSR have now both fallen. Two graves, two fascist states.

    No other government could result from an alliance between the white race nationalism and Christian dominionism.

    History. The GOP of the 1930's wanted a fascist Germany conquest of the USSR, FDR and the great generation prevented that. The GOP via HUAC wanted defeat of the left at home (that failed). Reagan (Cold War victory) and Bush (PNAC hubris) and now a focus on domestic population control – establishing oligarchy.

    Putin has his revenge. Now it is “western consent” to change the borders of Europe – so that the lithium honey of Ukraine goes into the Russian bear’s pocket.

    Reply
    • Jenny 11.1
      16 November 2024 at 12:43 pm

      SPC @11

      15 November 2024 at 10:49 am

      …..The Jan 6 coup is established with the right to trample over the fallen republic.

      Watch this space.

      The J6 Insurrectionists if pardoned and released with their supporters will form the nucleus "Tip Of The Spear" for an American version of the Brown Shirts.

      No democratic institution or even polling stations will be safe from intimidation, guaranteeing a Trump autocrat remains in the White house for the foreseeable future.

      ‘He has to deliver’: Trump’s dilemma on how far to go with promised pardons for January 6 rioters

      By Marshall Cohen, Donie O'Sullivan and Curt Devine, CNN

      10 minute read

      Updated 9:46 AM EST, Tue November 12, 2024

      A flourishing movement

      Like the 2020 election denialism and anti-vaccine movements, the campaign to release January 6 prisoners is another form of MAGA mobilization and community organizing that has taken on a life of its own, with multiple support groups popping up since 2021….

      It’s all in Trump’s hands

      ….The US Constitution gives the president a lot of flexibility, Crouch said. Trump could grant individual pardons for specific rioters by name. Or he could issue broad clemency proclamations for subsets of January 6 defendants, or all of them in one fell swoop.

      President Jimmy Carter issued a proclamation in 1977 pardoning everyone who evaded the draft during the Vietnam War. President Joe Biden granted a blanket pardon in 2022 for people convicted of some federal marijuana offenses….
      https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/12/politics/trump-january-6-rioters-pardons/index.html

      Reply
  12. Dennis Frank 12
    15 November 2024 at 11:07 am

    Trump appoints long-time Greenie & legal authority to his cabinet:

    Kennedy won legal battles against large corporate polluters. He became an adjunct professor of environmental law at Pace University School of Law in 1986. In 1987, Kennedy founded Pace's Environmental Litigation Clinic, and held the positions of supervising attorney and co-director there until 2017. He founded the nonprofit environmental group Waterkeeper Alliance in 1999, serving as the president of its board until 2020.

    Kennedy continued his education at Harvard University, graduating in 1976 with a Bachelor of Arts in American history and literature. In 1982, he earned a Juris Doctor degree from the University of Virginia School of Law and a Master of Laws from Pace University in 1987.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.

    He has adopted a conciliatory stance toward vaccine addicts:

    “We’re not going to take vaccines away from anybody,” Kennedy said in an interview following Trump’s victory. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-disney-earnings-dow-sp500-nasdaq-live-11-14-2024/card/moderna-pfizer-stocks-fall-after-reports-of-rfk-jr-nomination-euU1H8Z3IBb4FLQgUb3e

    Yet corporates & leftists seem equally spooked! smiley

    Reply
    • SPC 12.1
      15 November 2024 at 11:40 am

      The use of the term vaccine addict is suggestive of a failure to avoid “BAD”.

      What next, opposition to health spending cut-backs as indicative of an addiction to the availability of health care.

      PS. There is the risk of de-funding schools that require vaccination.

      Reply
    • SPC 12.2
      15 November 2024 at 11:55 am

      The issues in play

      1.water quality.

      2.fluoride in water.

      3.processed foods.

      4.public health mandates.

      5.drug advertising, marketing and distribution.

      6.rules for drug approval.

      Ts a pity the grifter (partner to Musk in regulation – his bio-tech start-ups were a corporate fraud, akin to selling bad debts as assets pre GFC) does not come under Health Sec oversight.

      Reply
      • Dennis Frank 12.2.1
        15 November 2024 at 12:19 pm

        Yet you ignore basic principles of democracy. Why? These people believe in freedom of choice, thought & opinion. I don't get why leftists are so fearful of such democratic principles. I imbibed the vaccine out of pragmatism while agreeing that state compulsion was offensive. Still, if the acronym proceeds to be fascist in govt I'm as likely to be critical as you.

        Reply
        • SPC 12.2.1.1
          15 November 2024 at 12:20 pm

          What do you base your accusation about me on?

          And yet ascribe to others only such virtues?

          It seems you are here to gaslight leftists as anti-democratic, and that seems to me to be, your bigotry.

          Reply
          • Dennis Frank 12.2.1.1.1
            15 November 2024 at 1:01 pm

            You failed to include such basic principles on your list! Obviously they motivate people like the acronym profoundly – they always say so. Such blithe evidence seems to indicate a classic leftist blind spot; when I point it out you seem unable to see the point. Mindless leftism always frames non-aligned people as inclined to bigotry, and those prone to it remain unable to figure out why alienating the third of the electorate that is non-aligned keeps causing the left to lose elections.

            It would be better for all of us if leftists discontinue such idiocy. All it requires is for leftists to concede the humanity of those who believe in democratic principles. Persevering in such a fundamental error helps nobody.

            Reply
            • SPC 12.2.1.1.1.1
              15 November 2024 at 1:07 pm

              That is neither a valid, nor rational, response to listing the issues that the Sec for Health would be deciding on.

              But thanks for exposing your excuses and presumptions for being anti-left and pretending to better than "them".

              Reply
              • Dennis Frank …
                15 November 2024 at 3:09 pm

                You really believe you know what his view of the issues is?? How peculiar. I'm confident he will prioritise the principles instead.

                Reply
                • tWig …
                  15 November 2024 at 4:37 pm

                  Dr Wilson is a medical researcher who has been debunking Kennedy's medical ideas over the past ten years, so you can understand Kennedy's views here. Here he looks at the Make America Healthy Again position taken by Trump's allies.

                  Reply
                • SPC …
                  15 November 2024 at 5:04 pm

                  I merely listed (some of) the issues he will be managing.

                  Here you hallucinate this is some claim to know what his view is. What next, what he will do?

                  Stop with the deliberate misrepresentation.

                  Reply
            • roblogic 12.2.1.1.1.2
              15 November 2024 at 2:41 pm

              Ignoring basic principles like fanning an insurrection and attempting to murder the vice President?

              Like filling your followers with lies and undermining democracy and colluding with foreign dictators?

              Like lying about a pandemic so that half a million of your subjects die, and then sheet the blame to some other country?

              What kind of undemocratic stuff are you talking about?

              Reply
              • Dennis Frank …
                15 November 2024 at 2:49 pm

                I was referring to the nominated acronym. Up-thread. You seem to think I was referring to Trump. Best to stay on topic.

                Reply
                • roblogic …
                  15 November 2024 at 3:05 pm

                  I was referring to your claims that "leftists are so fearful of such democratic principles" and "Mindless leftism always frames non-aligned people as inclined to bigotry"

                  And provided some examples of how your arrows are aimed in the wrong direction.

                  Reply
                  • Dennis Frank …
                    15 November 2024 at 3:11 pm

                    Okay, but I was referring to SPC's framing, and how representative it seems to be. Over-generalising to make the point, perhaps!

                    Reply
                    • SPC …
                      15 November 2024 at 3:16 pm

                      You reacted to a framing that consisted solely of a list of issues before the Health Sec.

                      You were the one "hallucinating".

    • joe90 12.3
      15 November 2024 at 1:33 pm

      Trump appoints long-time Greenie & legal authority to his cabinet:

      Don't you mean Trump appoints long-time junkie, drunk driver, serial adulterer, credibly accused rapist, and threat to national health to his cabinet?

      Reply
  13. Jenny 13
    15 November 2024 at 12:17 pm

    'Was the Biden administration threat to cut off weapons supplies to Israel if Israel didn't allow more aid into Gaza, just a cynical electoral vote catching ploy?

    Before the presidential election the Biden administration issued a public statement to the American people and the world's media, that if Israel did not allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza, after a 30 day deadline which ended after the presidential election, the US would cut off weapons supplies to Israel.

    The election has been and gone, Israel has not allowed more aid into Gaza. The Biden administration continues to supply weapons to Israel.

    The Biden/Harris administration lost the the presidency.
    Not enough Americans believed that the Biden/Harris administration would keep their pre-election promise. They have been proved right.

    The only aid the Palestinians are getting is the Western military aid being dropped on them via the IDF

    Reply
    • Nic the NZer 13.1
      15 November 2024 at 12:44 pm

      "The only aid the Palestinians are getting is the Western military aid being dropped on them via the IDF"

      Untrue. The US managed to kill at least 2 children in Gaza with direct aid drops.

      Reply
  14. aj 14
    15 November 2024 at 6:31 pm

    TV1 news repeating again tonight the fake news that "Antisemitic rioters "actively sought out Israeli supporters to attack and assault them" after a soccer match in Amsterdam".

    This has been widely debunked by fact checkers and alternative media.

    What really happened in Amsterdam

    https://youtu.be/DvTyg1kJGzM?si=dOnGm3LsXGrdiCnT

    Reply
  15. Molly 15
    15 November 2024 at 7:45 pm

    Please – for the love of God – can someone add a rolling eye emoji!!

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    Reply

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