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Open mike 10/05/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 10th, 2013 - 163 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

163 comments on “Open mike 10/05/2013”

  1. Kevin Welsh 1

    Gilmore has been under fire for his treatment of a waiter in Hanmer Springs last month, and his accounts since of what happened.

    Key stepped up the pressure yesterday. “If he can’t reconcile what happened on that night in the way that he’s described it to me then the answer would have to be yes,” he said.

    “In the end to make a contribution you have to have integrity, and to have integrity there has to be a directness and fullness in your answers.”

    How does he say this shit with a straight face?

    Integrity, directness and fullness in answers?

    Obviously a big believer in do as I say, not as I do.

    • Morrissey 1.1

      The one who should be under massive pressure to resign should be Key. Gilmore, as the last man on the list and without support, is dispensable. Key is quite prepared to throw him to the wolves to assuage public taste.

      To quote Bomber Bradbury: “What a piece of work our prime minister is.”

    • karol 1.2

      Maybe Key just wants to keep this issue going to divert the MSM from the GCSB Bill, MRP sale failure, etc.

      • Tigger 1.2.1

        I wondered also Karol, but it’s a no-win. Gilmore is making Key look impotent as a leader. I rather suspect instead the media are more interested in this grubby story than the big issues.

        I hope Gilmore stays. He’s not done anything worth firing (name dropping is a punishing offence, if he’d acted on it that’s firing stuff).

    • Paul 1.3

      Yeah, some quote about “looking NZers in the face”.
      Some people are compulsive liars. Gilmore is just modelling himself on the master of it all.
      The corporate media are quite capable of distracting the folk of NZ without Key’s help.
      Why now, thanks to the Herald, we have a new talking point. ……George Pie. The NZ Herald look like they’re operating as McDonald’s PR and marketing tool now.

    • Rogue Trooper 1.4

      for a man who “does not drink whiskey”, Key sure is developing a blue-tinged nose.

  2. Morrissey 2

    This is from the archives. It shows that not much has changed over the last three years….

    Radio NZ newsreader openly expresses disgust at Israeli propaganda
    Tuesday 13 July 2010

    I listened to Lloyd Scott read the 5 a.m. news on National Radio. Scott is a sensitive and intelligent man, and he was clearly affected by having to read the following: “An Israeli military investigation into its own killing of nine peace workers has found there were errors of planning, intelligence and coordination but the killings were justified. It also rejected calls for an independent inquiry, saying that it would have been biased.” As he read this last sentence out, his voice rose in dismay.

    He read some more items and then the weather forecast. Then, several minutes later, Scott returned to the item about the “inquiry” into the murder of nine peace activists. He said: “That last bit really gets me, you know. Especially the last sentence: ‘An independent inquiry would have been biased.’ Does that mean the Israeli report into their own killing of peace activists was NOT biased?’

    Scott’s open disagreement with the content of his script was unusual. Other newsreaders and journalists on New Zealand radio and television often indicate their dissent at having to read out what are often little more than propaganda broadcasts and PR releases for Israel, but they are usually forced to be a little more circumspect. Greg Boyed on TV1 is adept at raising an eyebrow to undermine the nonsense he is forced to read out, and Peter Williams, Alastair Wilkinson, Cameron Bennett, Mark Crysell, Warwick Burke as well as many other newsreaders have clearly struggled to hide their visceral disgust at Israeli brutality and criminality while being forced to read words that have been crafted by others to disguise or excuse it.

    More dependably servile this morning was the BBC’s Adam Mynott, who read out the official Israeli statement without betraying even a quiver of emotion.

    Interestingly, the BBC’s news coverage of this latest Israeli outrage—not only murdering unarmed civilians, but murdering sense itself by calling the murderers “brave” and their unarmed victims “aggressors”—was followed, a couple of items later, by the announcement that Sudan’s President Bashir has a warrant out for his arrest—for war crimes and crimes against humanity. It is not insignificant that these items were separated—somebody at the BBC obviously decided it would have been too embarrassing for Israel to have the two items juxtaposed, therefore highlighting the absurd gulf in treatment of the two outlaw regimes.

    One wonders if the BBC would read out a self-serving justification of the Janjaweed militia’s depredations in the same dutifully “neutral” manner as it read out Giora Eiland’s preposterous “report”.

  3. cricklewood 3

    As much as many on here are enjoying the Aaron Gilmore situation, it seems to me that we are unable to remove list Mp’s who prove themselves to be complete arseholes who seem to be solely in it for the ego trip and the pay packet. (Whilst I accept you could argue there are many unsuitable list Mp’s and who they are is probably dependent on which side of the spectrum you are on)
    I would propose that we make list MP’s subject to employment law so in the case that someone behaves like a complete pillock there is a process where they can be removed or formally warned about there behavior.
    The power to initiate proceedings could perhaps sit with the speaker or clerk and any Mp who felt the process was unfair could seek remedy in the employment court.
    Someone like Gilmore could be for example removed for bringing parliament into disrepute whilst someone Brendan Horan would perhaps be able to remain as an independent as there have been no charges or anything provable that I am aware of.
    Whilst we don’t want a party leader to be able to give a list mp the arse just because they disagree on something we do need a mechanism to remove one that proves to be entirely unsuitable. Parties would still be free to kick an mp out of the party but it would be out of their control as to whether or not they are allowed to remain as an independant.

    • karol 3.1

      It’d help if political parties ensured they had good reason to believe the people they put on their lists are capable of being competent MPs.

      • freedom 3.1.1

        hypothetical scenario time:
        Perhaps a regulatory body could set up a little test for incoming MP’s, or those wanting to be. Undertaken by a suitably qualified Polygraph expert. 🙂

        1: As an MP, Who do you work for?
        2: In the House, will you vote for what is best for the Country or best for your Party?
        3: Do you have the ability to work honestly on non-partisan issues?

        perhaps others have some ideas for further questions ?

        • Bill

          perhaps others have some ideas for further questions ?

          Are you a dick?
          Are you sure?
          Should we believe you?

          • yeshe

            Is your mother good friends with my mother ?

            • yeshe

              has anyone heard details about Aaron Gilmore getting on the Nat list because of his father’s close friendship with Mr Slippery PM ??

      • The Al1en 3.1.2

        “It’d help if political parties ensured they had good reason to believe the people they put on their lists are capable of being competent MPs.”

        Especially key, when the nats are so good at finding the right people to be spy bosses and race relations commissioners.

        • ghostrider888

          Hey 19. Still Mobile across the Atlantic
          or riding a one-track Houston your Grace,
          Crank it Up.Land Ho! for The handsome Changeling.

          Basslines. simultaneous Doors with our names in Electrolites
          Baling out before we meet The Reapers’ four whisker cuts
          Sleeptalkin’, Sidewalkin’, J-Hawking

          No More Heroes anymore, just a dear suck of the pong
          Spinning The Circle Blackwards, Toogood
          Page Who “only love can bring the rain”.

          To The War In Spain. It Starts and Ends With You
          per Suede;It’s so easy getting through these times
          If you don’t have the answer you don’t have to lie”.

          “Too many people going Underground”
          60 miles an hour”
          So Fast So Numb
          the scratch by twitching it! 😉

          • The Al1en

            “Hey 19. Still Mobile across the Atlantic
            or riding a one-track Houston your Grace,
            Crank it Up.Land Ho! for The handsome Changeling.”

            Command, I’m showing Green across the board. HLM, initiate launch sequence on my mark… Mark.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.2

      I would propose that we make list MP’s subject to employment law so in the case that someone behaves like a complete pillock there is a process where they can be removed or formally warned about there behavior.

      Just need to bring back the Waka Jumping law then any list MP who misbehaves can be kicked out of the party and loses their seat at the same time.

      Parties would still be free to kick an mp out of the party but it would be out of their control as to whether or not they are allowed to remain as an independant.

      Someone who comes into parliament via the list is there because the party was voted for, not them. This means that if they stay on as an independent the party has lost part of the representation that it was voted which would be an injustice.

      Then we need the power of recall so that electorate MPs can be kicked out by their constituents.

      • Murray Olsen 3.2.1

        Agreed. I can’t see any good reason for a list MP to stay once they change party. In fact, this should probably apply to electorate MPs as well. I suspect most of them get in on a party vote. Recall would be a great idea, with maybe a 90 day option on beginner’s rates.

      • weka 3.2.2

        “Just need to bring back the Waka Jumping law then any list MP who misbehaves can be kicked out of the party and loses their seat at the same time.”

        Except we need MPs with conscience to be able to vote against their party. Remember Marilyn Waring?

        • Arfamo

          Stuff.co has posted Gilmore’s “inappropriate” emails from where he previously worked:

          Click to access AaronGilmoreEmails.pdf

        • cricklewood

          Exactly, Hence making it subject to employment law, Basically you have to be a complete tit that would in any reasonable case get the arse card. Simply disagreeing would not be one of those reasons…

          • weka

            But wouldn’t voting against one’s party’s legislation be akin to publicly and directly working against the wishes of one’s employer? It’s not about simply disagreeing with them, it’s about taking actions that fundamentally undermine your employer’s main business.

        • Draco T Bastard

          If the person can’t represent the party’s wishes then they probably shouldn’t be there anyway and kicking someone out is up to the party, not the leader of the party.

        • Murray Olsen

          Marilyn Waring didn’t leave NAct. I can’t see any problem with conscience votes. Confidence and supply could cause problems.

          • weka

            No, but under MMP with waka hopping legislation, and the suggestions being made here, she could have been forced out of parliament. The National Party would simply have kicked her out of the party.

            • Draco T Bastard

              And parties have whips to prevent the politicians from voting out of line.

  4. Gruntie 4

    Key blames MMP for not being able to sack Gilmore – if Gilmore was a FPP MP Would Key really truly sack the dickhead and force a bye election? Why doesn’t the media ask him that ?

    • Alanz 4.1


      Ok, news from the internal ranks are now that trying to dump Aaron has not quite worked and could have been better handled. If required, Key will take another angle, play it down and shrug it off. Aaron was getting talked to about shutting up and staying low. Key and Dipstick want next week to be about the budget.

    • felix 4.2

      It’s a bullshit distinction he’s making anyway. List MPs, just like any other MPs, are sent to parliament according to the will of the voters.

      In Gilmore’s case, by every single fuckwit who party-voted National in 2011.

      • Paul 4.2.1

        I wonder how many of those people are now basking in their promised ‘brighter future.’
        If you vote for a slogan, what do you expect?

        • Tim

          “If you vote for a slogan, what do you expect?”
          Unfortunately, thanks to a dysfunctional media, and aided and abetted by politicians and political parties, that’s all that many are capable of these days.
          Brand Election
          It ain’t gonna change till people get their “brand” spirit back as well as a few basic “learnings” * such as the value of protest, questioning and critique, and the realisation that (as someone once said) – democracy is only as good as its opposition.

          * or until they’re directly affected by any adverse effects, the result of those they elected (or DIDN’t elect)

      • Pascal's bookie 4.2.2

        Well yeah, but in Gilmore’s case there’s the added wrinkle that he didn’t get in based on the vote on election day. He’s a legitimate MP, but he’s there because National sent Lockwood to London.

        National put him on the list, National knew he was next on the list when the sent Lockwood north.

      • Lanthanide 4.2.3

        I always find that argument to be a bit hollow. No votes, or doesn’t vote, for a party based on their list past about the first 20-30 people on it.

        • freedom

          they do that largely because they are sold the idea that the Party has a leadership which many folk assume to mean the Party has made an intelligent and reasoned selection of the best available candidates for the positions on the list.

          This is proving to be an increasingly misguided understanding of what actually happens

        • Pascal's bookie

          Even if true, which you can’t know (there are some fucking tragics out there I tell you what), it doesn’t matter.

          The fact is that MPs are elected off the list. They are duly elected MPs, like any other.

          Saying the party should have a retroactive veto over an MP’s status is just as fucked up for list MPs as it is for electorate MPs. Most voters, I’d be prepared to wager, vote for electorate MPs based on their party affiliation. If that wasn’t the case, then we wouldn’t have safe seats, we wouldn’t see nationwide swings against a party reflected in electorate results, and we’d see more, (or indeed even some) independent MPs.

          So the same aergument that applies to List MPs applies to electorate ones. If you can throw out a list MP because it turns out you don’t like them for some reason, then why not an electorate MP. this bullshit about how ‘oh but they were elected as an M<P off their own merits" is belied by history and reason.

          When was the last time an electorate MP who was kicked out of the party, or not reselected, voted back in as an independent?

          • Tigger

            +1 PB. Slippery slope to start shoving out MPs who were fairly elected because we ‘don’t like’ them. Gilmore’s not committed a crime (apparently). Neither did Horan. The media has tried them. I hope Gilmore stays.

    • Paul 4.3

      Because the owners of the media does not like MMP because it is too democratic ; sometimes this means it does not guarantee a pliant government for their continuing plunder of the country.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.4

      …Would Key really truly sack the dickhead and force a bye election?

      Nope, because he can’t. He could, possibly, remove him from the party but that’s about it. Philip Field was removed from the party but Labour couldn’t remove him from parliament.

      • emergency mike 4.4.1

        So what is the difference re John Key’s bitching about MMP here?

        • Draco T Bastard

          Key is just bitching about his inability to hold his MPs to account. It’s got nothing to do with MMP. Labour had a list MP resign from their position when they were accused of impropriety.

          Sure, Key would find it easier if he could legally fire Gilmore but the fact is that the problem is Key’s lack of standing within National itself.

          • emergency mike

            Yep. John Key sets the example of rorting the system, lying to get what you want, and generally playing everyone. Then he expects the narcissistic sociopaths he brings in as useful idiots to act with integrity and resign when things go pear-shaped.

          • ianmac

            This is no different from First Past the Post is it? Couldn’t sack an MP then so it is not MMPs fault Mr Key!

  5. Paul 5

    The PM says the sale of assets has been a “triumph”.
    113 000 people. 3% of the population.
    Maybe he should have amended this to “a triumph for me, my rich mates and the corporations who put me in power.”
    FIFY Mr Key.

    • tc 5.1

      He’s got 1.3B of money off people for an asset they already own, you bet it’s a triumph for a big swinging dick Banksta like shonkey.

    • Ennui 5.2

      Triumph….2000 or 2500? Bit of a dog wouldn’t you say?

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3

      It was a triumph – for the rich. It was a hell of a loss for the rest of us.

  6. Te Reo Putake 6

    Idly flicking through some of Sir Alex Ferguson’s best quotes and this one stood out. Talking to his former player Paul Ince, who had just got his first big managerial job, Fergie offered this piece of wisdom:

    “The only advice I can give you is don’t let players take the mickey out of you.”

    Think Key, think Gilmore.

    In football, they talk about losing the dressing room; that is, the gaffer’s authority goes from absolute to absolutely zero the moment they start taking the piss out of him. I suspect Key lost the dressing room yesterday when Gilmore turned up in Parliament and Key couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

    • King Kong 6.1

      What nonsense. Key is as hamstrung by MMP as Fergie has been by player contracts.

      What has Fergie done in the past when a player has behaved like a nob to the point he doesn’t want them around anymore. He puts them in the corner and ignores them untill their contract expires or they get the hint and fuck off.

      • Te Reo Putake 6.1.1

        Nice to see your ignorance extends to football, KK. Famously Ferguson actually sells or loans out players who annoy him ASAP. Check Cantona, Keane, Beckham, C. Ronaldo and a host of lesser lights. All gone in a heartbeat.

        Ferguson doesn’t let them stink up the joint making him look bad. Which is my point about Key. He is stuck with the Gilmore curls in his particular dressing room, and has no way of getting him out. Gilmore is going to be a daily reminder to the rest of the blue team that Key has no effective power to discipline them, because the majority in Parliament is so tight, he can’t take the risk.

        • Rob

          So compare those actions with Clarke and Taito Field, a great lesson in leadership there , not.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead

            Field was told to resign from Parliament and expelled from the Labour Party, but Gilmore’s offence is political, not criminal, so the comparison has limited usefulness.

            • Rob

              “Field was told to resign from Parliament and expelled from the Labour Party”. but lets be honest, it took wee while didn’t it. Not exactly following TRP’s model of fast determined leadership.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Yes it did but there’s a difference between a consensual political environment and a dictatorial corporate environment.

                • Rob

                  What environment are you applying to labour? Fast acting determined leadership ie Man U as detailed by TRP. Or the Carter / Field scenario as detailed by history?

              • Pascal's bookie


                I thought Key said he was better than labour?

                In Key’s National party, he sits above the fray saying there’s nothing he can do, while National party minions feed the press with threats of what will come out next if he doesn’t resign, making mention of the guy’s family.

                Thug life eh?

              • McFlock

                but lets be honest, it took wee while didn’t it

                Yeah, due process and fair treatment can be a bitch like that.

              • alwyn

                It was a very long time indeed.
                As a matter of fact he never did resign from Parliament and remained an MP until he was defeated in the 2008 election.
                So much for a “determined” Helen Clark getting him to do anything.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  He got kicked out of the party and that was all that could be done. The problem that you’re identifying is that the electorate couldn’t kick him out until the next election which they subsequently did hence the need for recall.

                  • alwyn

                    You are quite right that that was all that could be done.
                    However I would note that it took at least a year before even that was done and it appeared at the time to be an enraged reaction from HC to the fact that Field had upstaged an announcement she was going to make by saying he would stand against Labour in the next election.
                    On the other hand I note that at about midday today you seem to be saying that Key’s inability to do what she failed to do is “Excuses, excuses” See your own post at 6.1.2 just below this.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Key’s blaming MMP and that isn’t the problem at all. The immediate problem is that Key or the caucus has no control of an individual MP which is a matter of standing within that party. Labour had a similar issue and they got their list MP to resign so it can be done it’s just that Key/National can’t do it.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        What nonsense. Key is as hamstrung by MMP as Fergie has been by player contracts.

        Excuses, excuses – exactly what I’ve come to expect from National and its sycophants.

    • mac1 6.2

      TRP, how long will it take for the nation’s dressing room to lose confidence in the PM?

      Fascinating to see Colin King, the National MP for Kaikoura, and another poor performer, laughing with Gilmore in the House yesterday. (I wonder, as an aside, whether Colin King sent a message of sympathy to his threatened and disrespected constituent in Hanmer? If I was that hotel worker seeing his MP laughing with his abuser, I’d be highly pissed off.) Gilmore was also laughing with another MP to the seat to his left.

      It did not look like Gilmore had been sent to Coventry by his colleagues- either that, or a new spirit of generous forgiveness has overtaken the National back bench.

      Contrast that with John Key in interview saying that Gilmore’s return to caucus or membership of the list or party could scarcely be tolerated.

      • Te Reo Putake 6.2.1

        Well spotted, mac1. I note too that Tau Henare, another disaffected Nat, has been acting as Gilmore’s minder in the house.

        It can’t have escaped the attention of Key’s MP’s that chiding Gilmore for being shifty is a bit rich coming from a bloke whose every utterance is untrustworthy. And there will be a few of them who don’t even understand what Gilmore did wrong in the first place, given that he was just behaving as a born to rule Tory is supposed to when being given cheek by their lessers.

        As for the country’s confidence, well, I’d say Key has now moved into Arsene Wenger territory; still respected but tarnished by his failure to actually win anything worth winning in recent years. Taxi for Mr Key?

  7. johnm 7

    Remembering Margaret Thatcher

    1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
    2. She destroyed the country’s manufacturing industry
    3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
    4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren (“Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher”)
    5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
    6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
    7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
    8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed – the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
    9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
    10. The poll tax
    11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
    12. She compared her “fight” against the miners to the Falklands War
    13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we’ve been railing against for the last 5 years
    14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
    15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
    16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
    17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
    18. Section 28
    19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as “that grubby little terrorist”
    20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
    21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
    22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
    23. She invented Quangos
    24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
    25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
    26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
    27. The Al Yamamah contract
    28. She opposed the indictment of Chile’s General Pinochet
    29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
    30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
    31. BSE
    32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
    33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
    34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
    35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
    36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
    37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain – £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros – £1 billion
    38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
    39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
    40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
    41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
    42. 21.9% inflation


  8. geoff 8

    Prediction: MRP shares are going to go high because of overseas demand.

  9. muzza 9


    In the midst of dwindling city budgets, Detroit is still in need of city maintenance. Community members are stepping up and volunteering more actively to keep their city clean and running.

  10. just saying 10

    I don’t know when you added the spell and other similar auto-checks to the commenting function, LPrent, but thanks 😀

  11. unpcnzcougar 11

    The Electoral Commission has published the 2012 donation returns from registered political parties. They appear to reveal a major breach of electoral law by the Labour Party.

    Donations over $15,000 only have to be disclosed annually, but donations over $30,000 must be disclosed within 10 working days of receipt.

    Labour’s return shows they received $430,259.33 from the estate of Brian Dalley (ironically a professional property investor who made his riches from capital gains) between April and July 2012. They were required to disclose this to the Electoral Commission within 10 working days, but the Commissions say they were only notified on 9 May 2013. Their disclosure is 12 months late.

    • Seti 11.1

      You mean to say Labour may have broken electoral law? Well blow me down with a pledge card.

      • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1

        Yeah it’s more uselessness.

        Weird though. What’s with you clowns when you pop in with the latest thing you are excited about and you can’t be arsed with linking?

        Is it eagerness to be frst!, just can’t delay hitting submit for the time it takes to C&P a link?

        UnPCNZCougar there couldn’t even be arsed typin the comment, just cut and pasted DPF’s post:



        • unpcnzcougar

          Very sorry to have offended you Pascal. Duly noted. Will make sure I do that next time.

          Yes, it is unusual to be eager here at The Standard. Perhaps you could do that for all eager posts without references in your polite manner and we will all learn to behave.

          • Colonial Viper

            Don’t “behave”

            But maybe put forward some original thinking, if you can be bothered to come up with something yourself.

            • unpcnzcougar

              Sure Colonial. As much as I don’t like John Banks and I do believe he knew about the donations, this oversight of some $400k makes life difficult for Labour to walk the moral high ground. And I seriously wonder wtf is wrong with the lot of them. I believe that all this nonsense that is thrown around in the mainstream media just turns voters off, hence I think as I have said before it encourages apathy as a virtue. Unless something drastic happens in the next 18 months I doubt that voter turnout is going to improve at the next election.
              My husband decided a couple of years ago to become apolitical as he was over it. To the point that during local body elections he gives me the form to fill out and I had to make him go and vote last election.

              Voters will rally behind politicians with great convictions. That we do not have at the moment from any party.

          • Pascal's bookie

            Not offended cougar. Just curious.

            I’d never think to just plagiarise something.

          • weka

            “Yes, it is unusual to be eager here at The Standard. Perhaps you could do that for all eager posts without references in your polite manner and we will all learn to behave.”

            Do you understand the difference (technically and ethically) between posting without references, and plagiarism?

            • unpcnzcougar

              Yes I do. It was an error and I apologise. Happens to the best sometimes too. Perhaps you too could help everyone behave by pointing these things out every time they happen. Have a great weekend.

    • Jane 11.2

      What a joke, there are two options, either they are so incompetent and thick that it didnt occur that it may be considered a donation and should be declared within the ten days or they decided to try and hide it deliberately. Presumably they are just incompetent and thick which is only slightly better than being deliberate. With this and Shrearer forgetting his US account Labour have lost any integrity critiquing Banks, in both cases it could hardly be worse, it wasn’t a back bench MP that forgot to put something on the register it was the leader, and it wasn’t a small donation a little over the limit it was 400k+, I’m astonished they just can’t get the basics right and while they keep messing it up they give the NATZ free rein to wreck havoc, pathetic.

  12. johnm 12

    Local Boy Tim Flannery on Climate Change.
    He has that relaxed conversational style aussies are good at but describes some sobering facts about the great changes happening on our Planet:


  13. Draco T Bastard 13


    2012 political party donation returns were released yesterday, and while I glanced over them, I didn’t think there was anything unusual: the Greens were funded by MP’s tithes, Labour got a large bequest, and National was funded by property developers and a foreign corporation laundering its donations through an NZ front. It took DPF’s sharp eyes to notice the problem: Labour had hidden a $430,000 donation for a year:

    Donations over $15,000 only have to be disclosed annually, but donations over $30,000 must be disclosed within 10 working days of receipt.

    Labour’s return shows they received $430,259.33 from the estate of Brian Dalley (ironically a professional property investor who made his riches from capital gains) between April and July 2012. They were required to disclose this to the Electoral Commission within 10 working days, but the Commissions say they were only notified on 9 May 2013. Their disclosure is 12 months late.
    The penalty for failing to comply with s210C without reasonable excuse is a $40,000 fine. Labour needs to tell us why they were so slack about complying with their legal obligations. And if their reason isn’t good enough, they need to be prosecuted. The integrity of our electoral system depends on it.

    Quoted in full as it was short enough.

    Going to have to agree with I/S on that. It is unacceptable and Labour better cough up one way or the other.

    • Enough is Enough 13.1

      What has happened to our party?

      This is disgraceful and absolutley indefensible.

      How the hell does this happen.

      It just makes us look like fools when challenging the government for their continuing incompetence and corruption.

      Heads must roll over this.

      • muzza 13.1.1

        It just makes us look like fools when challenging the government for their continuing incompetence and corruption.

        Well, yes, but only of people want to believe that any entity inside the current political sham, could possibly be a part of any turn around, for NZ!

        • emergency mike

          Relax guys, we’ll just say “We haven’t read that report,” and everything will be fine.

    • freedom 13.2

      Perhaps it is time for a central processor for party donation deposits. Run the whole thing through Kiwi Bank which has full integration with all necessary banking services. People cruise in, pick up their Party Donation card, fill in the details as per anonymity/disclosure rules and whambam a much more open and accountable system. Party event bucket collections and donations of smaller figures can be processed as they currently are, as block donations, and are deposited usually within a few days of collection anyway. All larger donations are transferred or deposited via the register as they arrive. On line Banking of course makes it even simpler. Even the great PayWave [the RFID scammers wunderkind] can be easily adopted to the process.

      Each registered Party supplies the central body with one bank account number and all funds get deposited into that specific account. The account deposit details are cross fed to a public register that is automatically updated. This simple operation already exists in all banking/payment transaction services, so the systems are in place to do it. The question is does the will exist?

      Why will people poo poo this common sense resolution to transparency in our democracy?
      Simply because there is no good reason for it not to be implemented.

      • Anne 13.2.1

        Perhaps it is time for a central processor for party donation deposits.

        Good idea but doubt it will happen. Such a system surely would require some outside auditing. Imagine the Nat consternation knowing some of their shadiest donation deals might become known and get into the public arena. They would crawl over broken glass with bare feet and hands to stop any law requiring such a system.

        My best answer to what happened is similar to the revelation a couple of years ago that Labour did not have a secure email system and the ‘slimy one’ ended up with members’ personal details. In other words, the left hand still doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.

        To be fair it’s another example why political parties need to be funded from the public purse. It’s well known Labour’s Head Office is under-funded and under-staffed.

        • freedom

          with an open donation deposit scheme such as outlined above the auditing is as straightforward as it gets. One account per party, regardless of where the money comes from, is an auditor’s dream. It matters not if the deposits are physical or electronic, there is no way to avoid the required protocols, regardless of amount, the depositor or the Party.

    • veutoviper 13.3

      I/S has just added an update to this post on NRT

      Update: According to NewstalkZB’s Felix Marwick, the Electoral Commission has accepted Labour’s excuse of “confusion as to whether a bequest counts as a donation” and there will be no referral to police. So the law means nothing again. What is the point of electoral law if it is never enforced?

      • Draco T Bastard 13.3.1

        “confusion as to whether a bequest counts as a donation”

        What the hell else could it be?

        What is the point of electoral law if it is never enforced?

        To make it look like our democracy is upstanding?

    • Murray Olsen 13.4

      Labour plays the same game as NAct and Farrar is just jealous because he thinks his Tories are entitled to that money. I don’t expect Labour to be paragons of virtue, but I would like them to get an inspiring leader so they can contribute to the next coalition government.

      But yeah, this is an unforgivable level of incompetence.

    • QoT 13.5

      You know, this was definitely a time when the left wanted the media to stop hammering Key’s lying bullshit. Providing another gobsmacking example of the Labour Party’s inability to manage money will totally win back those centrist voters.

    • McFlock 13.6

      The $40k fine was intended to be labour’s way of foreshadowing a bequest tax? 🙂

  14. Jenny Kirk 14

    There are serious attempts by the NAct Govt to promote Northland as a “mecca” for gold and silver mining, plus oil drilling in the seas off the coastline. We believe both will have a disastrous effect on the environment in the north, and could well be very damaging to the farming and tourism industries already in existence. The following article – published the other day in the local daily paper – gives you some idea of what we are up against. And with our current govt changing first The Crown Minerals Act, and next the Resource Management Act, to make it much, much easier for mining companies to come in and do their work without regard for the environment, or for the adverse social consequences that will flow on from there, we have quite a battle on our hands.

    This message is just to let you know what is going on (ie all the people who read and post on The Standard). I will keep you informed of developments.

    Jenny Kirk
    Puhipuhi Mining Action Group

    ” Spectre of pollution ”

    Nickie Muir
    8th May 2013 Northern Advocate

    “Last month far away in a village not unlike Whangarei, something extraordinary happened. The Argentine town of Esquel celebrated 10 years of community solidarity, sustainability and true democracy.

    “Thousands of people came out onto the streets to remember an unlikely victory for a town of only 30,000 people, against toxic mining that had threatened their town water supply. To understand what is so remarkable about this is to know that Argentina was in economic meltdown and unemployment was three times as high as what Northland’s is today.

    “In 2003 the massive open pit mine in Catamarca – the Alumbrera, in the north, was still being hailed as the gold bullet which would save the economy (it took until this February for a massive uprising of illiterate small holding farmers there to rebel against contamination in the air and waterways).

    “Esquel is also at the other end of the country from where decisions get made.

    “But Esquel proved problematic for the mining PR men mainly because unlike their countrymen to the north, the residents are the educated middle class escaping the capital to establish environmentally sustainable businesses around the natural resources there. Instead of taking the environmental impact report from the mining company at face value the residents hired scientists from the University of Patagonia and found that the original EIR was deeply flawed.

    “They formed an apolitical neighbourhood association to better inform the community of the true costs of the mine as well as looking at a hard business case for it.

    “Consultation with the company broke down over a lack of integrity in the discussions. Namely, the mine sued residents over a leaked tape of PR and mining execs discussing “hiring community leaders to sway opinion and persuade hard liners” to accept the mine and it’s proximity to the waterways despite the environmental risks. This upset more than a few and more than 8000 people turned out to protest. The mayor – sensing a tide change – called for a referendum to decide whether or not the mine would go ahead and 81 per cent of the people of Esquel voted against the mine and eventually passed a local bill banning all toxic mining in the province.

    “Esquel’s solidarity inspired other small communities throughout Latin America but it also became a case study for mining companies to ensure that it didn’t happen again. There was too much lead time for the community to get informed – they were educated and organised. Esquel and its fishing, skiing and national parks are today a thriving centre of sustainable business based on the vision of the genuine community leaders from 10 years ago.

    “De Grey has exploration rights now in two areas – the sparsely populated, arid and impoverished province of Santa Cruz in Argentina, and rights to 6000ha 30km north of Whangarei, in Puhipuhi.

    “There has been no clear public information on whether this area is in the catchment for the town water supply. The Ngati Hau report on behalf of Fonterra states that the Waiariki Stream in Puhipuhi is already high in mercury “to a level that indicates that adverse effects of mercury on the biota living within the sediments could potentially occur frequently”. Ironic that De Grey’s info pack on Puhipuhi has dairy cows on the cover.

    “There is no mention in Stephen Joyce’s Economic Activity Report on how toxic mining could affect the production of Northland’s real white gold – milk powder. Or that it regularly floods there.

    ” Instead, local politicians and PR men tell those who ask to “trust us – we know what we’re doing”. They told the residents of Catamarca and Esquel the same.”

  15. One Anonymous Knucklehead 15

    Christine Rankin. Families Commissioner and newly appointed CEO of The Conservative Party.

    Conflict of interest much?

  16. AsleepWhileWalking 16

    Well done “Steve” + collegue from Work and Income Willis St, who was seen yesterday on the streets of Wellington asking those begging for money for food if Work and Income could help – your excellence is showing!

  17. Draco T Bastard 17

    Bernanke’s Neofeudal Rentier Economy

    This is of course the neofeudal model: the financial aristocracy in the manor house own the rentier assets and the debt-serfs toil away to pay the rents and taxes. The financier class (i.e. those that benefit from the financialization of the economy) are as unproductive as feudal lords; they skim the profits generated by the debt-serfs while adding no productive value to the economy.

    Now what does that remind me of…

    Oh, that’s right, selling state assets.

  18. Te Reo Putake 18

    Given that MRP is trading at $2.73, nearly 10% than higher the Government chosen float price, is Key going to call himself out for costing the taxpayer $170 million by undervaluing the stock? Is he going to call English and Ryall ‘wreckers’ for getting this so badly wrong?

    I can’t wait for the posts on WO and the Sewer screaming ‘SABOTAGE!’. Can’t be long now ….

    • Winston Smith 18.1

      Because the Greens (not even bothering to count Labour) had nothing to do with the share price at all…

      • Hayden 18.1.1

        These are actual numbers, as opposed to speculation.

      • Te Reo Putake 18.1.2

        That’s not what you were saying the other day, Winston.

      • freedom 18.1.3

        as much as political parties would like it, we do not have lifetime terms in our Parliament.
        We do have [apparently] changes of government on quite a regular basis. The NZ Power announcement is the most basic mechanism that any new Government could have come up with. Such an obvious hypothesis and no doubt several others were, I am sure, all dutifully considered and priced accordingly. Any risk assessor that failed to factor such a possibility is not earning the thousands of dollars a day/hour/word they were most likely charging.

        • Colonial Viper

          as much as political parties would like it, we do not have lifetime terms in our Parliament

          Was there a problem with the hereditary right to rule?

          • ghostrider888

            depends on who you star; be backward and enter forwards.

          • freedom

            there was an issue with the ceremonial codpieces not being easily transferable to the daughter,
            so they just gave power over to the people
            and there were free turnips for all
            but they kept the butter

        • Hayden

          They might as well speculate that the revelations of the mis-management of Solid Energy, including its being “encouraged” to borrow in order to pay larger dividends, put people off investing in a company that has this government as the major shareholder.

  19. Rogue Trooper 19

    Julie Anne spoke eloquently to the Insurance (Prudential Supervision) Amendment Act in Parliament yesterday, placing the increasing environmental risks in context.Like, the 1B government shortfall on claims for red-zoned Christchurch properties and the toxic MDF fire that continues to burn…

    p.s, to correct Seven Sharp, Jesus suggested if you are gonna be a toad-in-the-hole, do it discretely.

    -Matthew 6:5, And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray publicly on street corners, etc, where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get.

    Synthetic clones (analogues) produced and released overnight.

  20. lprent 20

    Drat. apache barfed again.

    Look at the logs again tonight.

    • freedom 20.1

      the force is with you

    • Tim 20.2

      Better the Apache barf than anything associated with the MS puke though huh?
      If you arrange things nicely enough, an Apache barf can actually look quite pretty, whereas anything related to sn MS puke takes a lot of cleaning up, alongside the potential risk of litigation as to who owns the resultant psychedelic outpuke.
      Barf away all Ye who have created your awesome facility, knowing as Ye do that any opposition (including garage-built, back-yard-developed memory management routines and most other functionality) has LESS to do with undeserving Bill&Melindas (with an eye for the processes of patents and the benefits of credibility-earning philanthropy), than it has do do with those that are the genuine creators of the new mankind.
      Barf away as much as you like – the space is free and unincimbered with legalese and underserved rights as to ownership.

  21. ghostrider888 21

    Aaron Gilmore ON CUE

    • freedom 21.1

      Now would be a most excellent time for a journalist to ask John Key the elephant in the room question . .
      How did Aaron Gilmore become a List member of the National party?

      a: A Bingo game ?
      b: you thought you were ringing Ian Fletcher ?
      c: he is the son of your good mate in CHCH?

      • yeshe 21.1.1

        do we know anything about ‘c’ ? have read it elsewhere but nothing to support it … lovely if true and able to be proved !!

        • freedom

          I have only read it here also, but surely [although probably not put forward in quite the same terms] it is a valid question to put to the Party Leader of any Party?

  22. yeshe 22

    Claire Trevett is a marvelous ‘knucklehead’ for this .. just updated ..

    Happy Gilmore in his true light … I think I shall call it Aaron Borealis


  23. Morrissey 23

    The Wimp-Walloping continues on The Panel

    Radio NZ National, Friday 10 May 2013

    Jim Mora’s Panel chat show has definitely returned to the mediocrity it had seemed to climb out of for a few weeks.

    Today’s guests are Stephen Franks, the unspeakably cynical, hard-right Wellington lawyer and “legal adviser” to the S.S. Trust, and Dita Di Boni, a shallow columnist best known for being married to Ali Ikram. Today, as a preface to her Soapbox contribution, she giggled winsomely: “As you know, Jim, I am an avid reader of women’s magazines.”

    Today, Franks is running amok, and Dita Di Boni, although she is clearly disturbed by his ranting, lacks the confidence to argue against him.

    And of course, Mora laughs and offers his slobbering agreement to everything Franks says.

    It’s just too, too depressing. This is what happens when you stop people like Gordon Campbell and Bomber Bradbury coming on your programme.

    Mediocrity, timidity and sycophancy. What an insult to the listeners. What a wasted opportunity. What a great pity.

    • Paul 23.1

      They never mention Frank’s political leanings – just that he’s a lawyer.
      ACT got 1% of the vote.
      What % of Mora’s guests are libertarian ideologues like Franks?

      Hello GCSB …….enjoying reading these conversations?

      • rosy 23.1.1

        “They never mention Frank’s political leanings – just that he’s a lawyer.”

        If they did, they’d say his political leanings were ‘centre-right’, just as the Herald states John Banks is centre right.

        It’s ACT, for goodness sake, the Herald even states that he’s the ACT leader in the article – how can that possibly be ‘centre-right’?

    • xtasy 23.2

      Morrissey: The problem with too many of you on the “left” here is your damned pre-occupation with the crap media on the right, the private side, or even with now rather government friendly RNZ!

      You are with these comments and other lack of contributions only serving the damned interests of the very perpetrators you try to expose, ridicule, challenge and beat, without realising it.

      The only way to defeat and take a strong stand against the commercial or non commercial RIGHT is to BLOODY WELL MAKE YOUR OWN PROGRAM!

      Stop whining and whinging and use the Standard or other forums, to present, to not just discuss, to offer multimedia, like a leftist YouTube, Fakebook and more combined. So there is a damned idea. Make a program that informs, that reveals, that communicates, that presents documentaries and information of value, to counter act this commercial trash we get on the media you are unhappy with. Perhaps have a chat with Lyn Prentice and others about how to establish such alternative media, since You Tube seems to go for pay TV at request now in the US.

      More can be done here too, so do not leave it to the shit media we have cater for us now. Just a desperate idea, perhaps. Sorry to upset, but I need to submit some suggestions and ideas here, I feel!

      • Morrissey 23.2.1

        This writer, i.e. moi, received a right old ticking off from our good friend xtasy late last night. I will attempt to address his concerns as best I can…

        1.) Morrissey: The problem with too many of you on the “left” here is your damned pre-occupation with the crap media on the right, the private side, or even with now rather government friendly RNZ!

        That’s because I, and many others, actually think it’s important to hold their vile behaviour up for inspection. Not just ridicule, mind you, but a serious inspection of what they are up to. So, for instance, when I parse a lunatic NBR editorial by Nevil “Breivik” Gibson or a wasted hour of assiduously trivial chat on The Panel or the insulting and shameless reading out of government PR handouts masquerading as news, I do it in a spirit of seriousness, not simply to make fun of the likes of Breivik Gibson.

        2.) You are with these comments and other lack of contributions only serving the damned interests of the very perpetrators you try to expose, ridicule, challenge and beat, without realising it.

        Judging by the emails and public admonitions I have received from the likes of Leighton “Ummm Ahhhh” Smith, Larry “Lackwit” Williams, Kerre “Red China” Woodham, Stephen Franks and even Jim Mora himself (he once asked me if I had “any more bile for today?”), these people don’t regard me as enhancing their positions in any way.

        3.) The only way to defeat and take a strong stand against the commercial or non commercial RIGHT is to BLOODY WELL MAKE YOUR OWN PROGRAM!

        No thanks. I have better things to do with my time. My contributions to this and a couple of other fora take only a small amount of time. I have a job, and I have thousands of books to read. I don’t want to throw my life away just yet.

        4.) Stop whining and whinging…

        Excuse me? I don’t appreciate such reductive and trivialising attacks—I won’t dignify those lazy epithets by calling them criticism. That’s the kind of thoughtless, indolent stuff I hear coming from the Prime Minister.

        …. and use the Standard or other forums [sic] to present, to not just discuss, to offer multimedia, like a leftist YouTube, Fakebook and more combined. So there is a damned idea. Make a program that informs, that reveals, that communicates, that presents documentaries and information of value, to counter act this commercial trash we get on the media you are unhappy with. Perhaps have a chat with Lyn Prentice and others about how to establish such alternative media, since You Tube seems to go for pay TV at request now in the US.

        Okay, I’ll try. Lyn, gimme half a million bucks NOW PLEASE! I intend to make a nuclear device with it.

        5.) More can be done here too, so do not leave it to the shit media we have cater for us now. Just a desperate idea, perhaps. Sorry to upset, but I need to submit some suggestions and ideas here, I feel!

        I share your frustration, my friend, but I think you should take another look at my oeuvre; it doesn’t begin and end with railing against radio and television. My play scripts are, even if I do say so myself, legendary….



  24. ghostrider888 25

    Talk about a weighty Paradox; Neilson finds consumer confidence fall, yet card spending climbs.If in doubt, max it out!

    • freedom 25.1

      wouldn’t it be nice to get the old fashioned reporting where credit and cash were reported seperately.
      One is spending your money, one is building debt. ‘Total electonic card spending’ is pointless meaningless and dishonest reporting of expenditure.

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        Even spending “your own money” is nothing more than spending someone else’s debt, whether its the Government’s borrowed money, money someone got for a house funded from a mortgage, etc.

        Hence our debt based monetary system. The banks have set it up so that almost no one can escape.

        • freedom

          Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
          Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
          Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
          Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream

          when I first heard Windmills of Your Mind I was struck how it seemed to be about more than just cute redheads. I reckon that Legrand cat was on to something.

  25. Colonial Viper 26

    Voters think Tories can make tough decisions, but UK Labour “lacks courage”


    NZ Power is just a start to turning the image around…

    • Rhinocrates 26.1

      Here’s hoping. Robertson showed himself to be an utter coward yet again – a disappointment, but not a surprise – by issuing another press release reassuring Phil O’Reilly that he’ll still obediently plaster lipstick on the neoliberal pig.

      Still, if the Greens keep the pressure on, and if it dawns on the careerists that Winston Peters is not their guaranteed Deus Ex Machina and that maybe they actually – OMG – have to earn their votes instead of having them delivered by the proles as fealty, maybe, just maybe, in their dramatic, epic, legendary effort to snatch defeat from the grinning, slavering, dripping, sharp-toothed, bitey, oh my what big teeth you have jaws of victory, the party pretending to be “Labour” might actually, almost by accident, do something right and maybe even win.

      I hope they keep it up. Maybe they’ll realise that this is the direction they have to follow, not trying to snatch NACT voters by being utterly indistinguishable.

      • xtasy 26.1.1

        Comments like this make me more afraid and convinced, that the reactionary social forces out there are rather pro “national socialist” lines of thinking than anything that used to be “traditional” “left”!

        I am sorry, but I feel so many of you guys have and are losing it, you live in little political closets, and you do not have a real sense of the tensions, hatred and competition that goes on out there. I feel you are all losers, living in some past scenario that is long gone. It is now division and blood fight about rights and privileges and so forth. Traditional socialism is DEAD! Hitler’s Socialism may be the future, and I hate it.

        • Rhinocrates

          That’s my fear too. Rather than bickering over whether the glass is half full or half empty, I’m just hoping that there’s any water left at all. “Labour’s” careerists like Shearer, Robertson et al give me little hope.

  26. weka 27

    3D printed firearms back in the media…

    While downloading the blueprints may not be illegal, any UK citizen who made and owned such a handgun could face arrest, according to the UK’s Metropolitan Police.

    “To actually manufacture any type of firearm in the UK, you have to be a registered firearms dealer (RFD),” it said in a statement.

    “Therefore, unless you are an RFD, it would most definitely be an offence to make a gun using the blueprints. It may be legal for an RFD to manufacture a gun this way, as long as they had the necessary authorities.”

    One of the biggest headaches for law enforcers is the fact the gun is made from plastic – with only the firing pin made from metal.


    “Blueprints for 3D-Printed Liberator Gun Have Been Downloaded 100,000 Times in Just Two Days”


  27. xtasy 28

    Now I write some of this in CAPITALS on purpose, as I want to point out to you guys that Whaleoil seems to have an easy and special access to You Tube, he has heaps of clips loaded on that media venue, and I see none or little of other ones, when it come sot politics, current affairs and so forth, from any other blog or NZ media.

    THIS IS DISTURBING! I again write this to raise awareness of the moderators here and affiliated blogs. We have an overly right wing focus on blogs and media in NZ! this is facilitated by commercial interests and government interests making available finance and more to allow this to happen. We are stuffed if we do not take a resolute position and prepare to take a stand to defend against this.

    I am only commenting as an observer and part time blogger, but this is so damned serious, I hope and trust all affected will listen, read this and act upon it. Otherwise you may as well close down the “left” and let them do what they want. I am sure nobody here wants that, and I appeal especially to the so many half hearted and passive, wake bloody up and take a stand again, or you will soon face REAL DICTATORSHIP, this is NO joke!

    • lprent 28.1

      The special access is called time. Because Cameron Slater seems to have been pretty useless at everything he has ever done outside of blogging (and even the effectiveness of that is arguable), he has time on his hands.

      Whereas most of the main authors here are holding down fulltime and quite demanding jobs from the ones I know of. So this site gets done in whatever spare time we have.

      Farrar is a bit different. He runs a polling company that seems to mainly have conservative political parties as it’s clients. While that gives him more control over his time than someone like I’d have, it clearly does not leave enough to spend time watching lots of YouTube. He virtually never features them. However he is also far more politically effective.

      Slater appears to mainly put videos and images up to drive international visits and page views to his site from search engines. While that is probably effective at driving up his advertising revenue, its influence on the NZ political scene is minimal. Reading his site recently has become an exercise in wasting time for anyone interested in local politics.

  28. xtasy 29

    VIVA el CHILE Socialista –

    and more via those links, wake up NZ!

  29. xtasy 30

    No voce and no more comment:

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