Open Mike 16/01/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 16th, 2018 - 106 comments
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106 comments on “Open Mike 16/01/2018 ”

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  1. The Chairman 1
    16 January 2018 at 7:23 am

    “Our policy is what the Government’s policy is. So now we’re in Government, we need to do what Government policy says.”

    Holding this position, can the Greens maintain their principles and distinctiveness, thus hold and grow their support?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/100569330/greens-risk-losing-ground-in-2020-as-labour-takes-their-share-of-votes

    • Psycho Milt 1.1
      16 January 2018 at 7:38 am

      Why am I not surprised that you’re peddling a right-winger’s view of the Greens on this thread?

      • The Chairman 1.1.1
        16 January 2018 at 7:47 am

        A right-winger’s view?

        I’m merely asking a question.

        Moreover, out of interest, can you tell us what exactly is it you think is the right-wing view being peddled here?

        • Bill 1.1.1.1
          16 January 2018 at 8:25 am

          Christ on a bike. The Greens and Labour and NZF have discussions and government policy comes out of that. That then ties all three parties to a line – that might be expressed by saying “Our policy is what the Government’s policy is. So now we’re in Government, we need to do what Government policy says”

          It’s really not that hard, is it?

          Not saying it’s good and not saying it’s healthy. I think coalitions are dog breakfast affairs and reckon we’d be far better served having a Fixed Term Parliament Act that did away with the need for coalitions.

          But in the meantime, the Greens put forward their priorities in discussions and they get however far with them and then toe the agreed line afterwards.

          • The Chairman 1.1.1.1.1
            16 January 2018 at 8:46 am

            “The Greens and Labour and NZF have discussions and government policy comes out of that. That then ties all three parties to a line – that might be expressed by saying ‘Our policy is what the Government’s policy is. So now we’re in Government, we need to do what Government policy says'”

            In that regard, the thing is, with the Greens being merely a support partner, they don’t have to tow the party line. As shown by their opposing position on the TPP.

            Therefore, if Government policy fails to live up to Green Party principle, should they really be spouting such a line (our policy is what the Government’s policy is. So now we’re in Government, we need to do what Government policy says)? And won’t doing so risk costing them support?

            • Bill 1.1.1.1.1.1
              16 January 2018 at 8:55 am

              Well, I’m not sure where the different lines would run in terms of when they are expected to be more than merely a support partner in terms of public perception (in areas where they have ministerial positions?).

              And sure, given the nature of coalitions, the smaller always winds up orbiting the larger. So NZF and the Greens will be being constantly eclipsed by NZ Labour.

              Like I’ve been saying on and off for quite some time now, we’d be much better served having a Fixed Term Parliament Act that gave full voice and agency to smaller parties.

            • Ad 1.1.1.1.1.2
              16 January 2018 at 9:03 am

              Prime Minister Ardern was weak on this herself even in late December.

              She was clear that there is no process for differing from the Cabinet line – neither the media nor the public are ready for major dissent., managed or unmanaged. TBH neither would I be if it happened too often.

              I think the left broadly will remain patient with Coalition dissent if they really roll out the goods consistently.

    • Puckish Rogue 1.2
      16 January 2018 at 9:21 am

      For some reason this seems appropriate:

      Meet the new boss
      Same as the old boss

      • weka 1.2.1
        16 January 2018 at 10:41 am

        Showing your age there Puckish.

      • adam 1.2.2
        16 January 2018 at 11:12 am

        Actually this lot are far less racist than the last lot, so bit of a fail their Puckish Rouge.

        Only real problem I’m seeing is the slowness of some tory mp’s in setting up electoral offices.

        Did anyone tell Denise Lee she won the election months ago, and part of her job is to have an electorate office. Or do we have another local body politician transfer to being an MP who is going to do bugger all?

        No like she cost the city of Auckland more money in a by election or anything….

  2. RedBaronCV 2
    16 January 2018 at 7:36 am

    I see Iceland has passed a law where companies are required to prove that there is equal pay for equal work to deal with the gender gap.
    We could either talk about the gender gap for the next 20 years or just pass a similar law. It’s 2018 after all.

    Should have no problem getting it passed – after all many deny it is an issue so they can see it as redundant legislation. And what better way to improve our economic performance

  3. The Chairman 3
    16 January 2018 at 7:53 am

    Is this in our best interest? Or is it another step towards us becoming tenants in our own land?

    The sale of a Canterbury dairy farm for more than $17 million to a company owned by the Canadian government has been approved by the Overseas Investment Office (OIO).
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/100543602/canterbury-farm-sold-for-17m-to-canadian-government-approved-by-overseas-investment-office

    • Stuart Munro 3.1
      16 January 2018 at 8:24 am

      The short answer is to stop foreign land sales and wind up the OIO. It has not credibly served the public interest.

    • halfcrown 3.2
      16 January 2018 at 10:18 am

      The bit that seems ironic to me is, if the NZ government bought that farm there would be great screams and outrage from the right about NATIONALISATION. But it is OK then for a foreign government to buy it, no doubt for the benefit of the people of that country.
      Also not a worry, for the benefit of the people of that country they are planning to go ahead and pollute this country further by increasing the herd size by 400 cows.

      All future land and asset sales should be bought by companies created by the NZ government,

      • alwyn 3.2.1
        16 January 2018 at 2:55 pm

        “The bit that seems ironic to me is” that if this had happened in August last year it would have been reported immediately and the Labour, Green and New Zealand First parties would have been spraying bile all over the place.
        Didn’t they promise that this was going to STOP?
        No New Zealand land would be allowed to be sold to those bloody foreigners.
        Now look how quiet they all are. Nothing to see here. Time to move on. Their only real complaint is going to be why this was announced at all.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.3
      16 January 2018 at 11:26 am

      It’s on the road to NZers becoming serfs – as planned by the capitalists.

  4. Xanthe 4
    16 January 2018 at 8:47 am

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018628288

    Here is a scandal. …. Tiwai smelter toxic waste “stockpiled” around southland … “sold” to another company, went bust recievers walked away, tip of an iceburg it is thought.

  5. cleangreen 5
    16 January 2018 at 8:47 am

    Issue of rail transportation to lower the climate change emissions and make our truck gridlocked roads safer with far less truck accidents and deaths.
    Just released today by our NGO to the Labour lead government today.

    Public COMMUNITY letter;
    16th January. 2018.

    Dear Ministers, – IMPORTANT This was a social blog sent today for your consideration ahead of your first 100 days summary coming soon.

    Labour Government in their last term in 2008 bought the rail back for us all to run an efficient rail service and to reduce truck freight and lower climate change affects while making the roads safer with less truck gridlocked roads and make our air quality cleaner ion our cities.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/14/68554/analysis-debt-anchor-dragging-labour-into-ppps

    “Earlier, Robertson said the Government had identified a number of capital pressures that had built up over a significant number of years and it was looking at ways to fund urban infrastructure in Auckland, which would include rail, roading and housing infrastructure.” (QUOTE)
    Bernard Hickey WHO is the Managing Editor of Newsroom Pro and writes about politics and economics from the Parliamentary Press Gallery in Wellington

    Grant Robinson said;

    “We have made it clear we are looking at a variety of funding instruments there — infrastructure bonds, partnership with the private sector to develop the transport and housing infrastructure that is required to allow us to make that growth sustainable,” he said.

    “We are looking at some innovative financing mechanisms in those areas.”

    So we call now on the new Labour coalition now since we are reaching our first 100 days we do need the Labour lead government to reopen all regional rail systems to begin making their safety and climate change policies realty to work for our health and welfare and our environment please!!!!!!

    Use the evidence in the new found EY (Ernest Young) rail report on the ‘Value of rail in NZ’ as your evidence to complete the move back to rail now as we need this urgently.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99257012/rail-has-saved-new-zealand-15b-a-year-study-shows

    We have seen or heard nothing about this very important study since that time when it was released by Labour to the press, so the time is now clearly to use this report national party had hidden to use to justify the funding of regional rail services urgently needed now.

  6. Ad 6
    16 January 2018 at 9:12 am

    Pretty interesting set of Twitter feeds around Margaret Attwood’s reasonably mild critique of #MeToo:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/15/margaret-atwood-feminist-backlash-metoo

    Personally she is one of my favourite all time authors with a grand dystopian mind, so I found it important to see where she positions herself.

    • Puckish Rogue 6.1
      16 January 2018 at 9:25 am

      I just find it very hard to take anything seriously most actors have to say on this or others things tbh

    • Bill 6.2
      16 January 2018 at 10:03 am

      Here’s the link to her full piece in The Globe and Mail for those who prefer source material over interpretations.

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/am-i-a-bad-feminist/article37591823/

    • SPC 6.3
      16 January 2018 at 4:27 pm

      This and that. There is safety in numbers, but also danger.

      Safety for women to come forward, too many for the powerful in the industry to example for it, so they have to accept change.

      But also risk, women will share their various Me Too stories and men will fear being named. So come forward the she for he brigade who do not want to see injustice to men/a man.

      In most cases it is not a matter of allegation and investigation for a court case (even where it was a criminal matter it is time expired or difficult evidence wise). More a matter of unjust impact on the careers of accused men, an irony as for near a century women’s careers (and some younger males) have depended on not complaining.

      And another irony, for the aging males involved, most would have been retired off years ago, if they were female.

      The balanced view is that, Me Too results in women citing all sorts of experiences, but a blanket response to all those named would be unjust.

      But I think most of the public realise that. Most of those coming forward realise that, and most of those named realise that.

      And given this is America, the usual process will be to confess (to being a participant in an industry with a tradition of sexual harassment and abuse of power
      in the workplace), and seek to change (rehab, the industry and personally).

      Celebrate the death of the old regime by wearing black … and finance Times Up and take the victory across the workplaces of the world.

      Me Too is not a threat to adult behaviour and social relations, sexual harassment and abuse of power, over the objections of a women is not flirting – displays of entitlement end in partner violence and the stalking of exes.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      16 January 2018 at 9:31 am

      Yes, imagine being so ignorant of governance that you don’t understand Ministerial conflicts of interest.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1
        16 January 2018 at 10:04 am

        The issue is that before the election Twyford highlighted the issue and condemned then Associate Housing Minister Alfred Ngaro for not of helping Lilley.

        But now hes in government he says he can’t get involved due to the conflict of interest

        But its ok because but he hopes a solution could be found 🙂

    • JanM 7.2
      16 January 2018 at 9:40 am

      Just biased reporting, really – although the reporter gave all sides of the argument the headline is a right-wing shocker

  8. James 8
    16 January 2018 at 9:55 am

    given some of the comments of some of the meatless folk on here lately- here is a nice post (wIth citations) from sustainable table about the benefits of raising and slaughtering your own livestock

    http://www.sustainabletable.org/248/sustainable-livestock-husbandry

    No downsides – and you don’t have to become a boring repetitive vegan to do some good for the environment.

    • Ed 8.1
      16 January 2018 at 10:45 am

      Your problem is you lack imagination.
      Vegans eat healthy and interesting food.

      https://www.thekitchn.com/17-of-the-most-delicious-vegan-recipes-we-know-231625

      “No downsides”
      Downsides for the cow.
      Downsides for the planet.
      And , (and this part will appeal to you) downsides for you too. A plant based diet is better for your health.

      In How Not to Die, Dr. Michael Greger, the internationally-recognized lecturer, physician, and founder of NutritionFacts.org, examines the fifteen top causes of death in America—heart disease, various cancers, diabetes, Parkinson’s, high blood pressure, and more—and explains how nutritional and lifestyle interventions can sometimes trump prescription pills and other pharmaceutical and surgical approaches, freeing us to live healthier lives.

      How not to die by Michael Greger, m.d. – animated summary

      • james 8.1.1
        16 January 2018 at 10:51 am

        Wrong again.

        You can eat meat without harming health.

        The cows were already here – so no downside for the planet.

        The cow leads a healthy happy life – no downside for the cow / or chicken / or sheep etc.

        • Ed 8.1.1.1
          16 January 2018 at 10:58 am

          You did not even listen to or read Michael Greger.
          It is amazing how set in their ways people can become.

          • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.1
            16 January 2018 at 11:42 am

            You should read this book, it changed how i view things and it might do the same for you https://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/jun/19/highereducation.houseandgarden

            • james 8.1.1.1.1.1
              16 January 2018 at 1:02 pm

              Thanks for the link – looks like a good book. Ill order off Amazon this afternoon.

            • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.1.2
              16 January 2018 at 1:55 pm

              That was interesting PR. I thought this bit makes particular sense.

              A mixed agricultural economy that uses meat thriftily and integrates arable and livestock farming – with the animals’ manure feeding the soil so that the crops will grow to feed the animals in turn – is efficient, sustainable and protective of the landscape. Moreover, the dependency of domesticated meat species on us would not end just because we stopped killing them. They would not revert to the wild; we would still have to be responsible for their welfare and demise. We could hardly abandon them to “tamelife parks”, as he puts it.

              But our moral authority to kill animals for food can only be based on our offering them a better deal in life than they would get without our help. The prevailing system of intensive livestock farming is a complete abrogation of that responsibility. It is systematically abusive. Pain is routine, stress almost constant, disease widespread. We should raise and kill animals without cruelty and then do them the respect of eating every last bit of them, from crisp griddled pigs’ ears to slow-braised oxtails.

              Perhaps we would buy a beast, as part of a food group or do-operative, and pay a farmer to raise it and kill it for us and take responsibility for our animal and know how it is treated, and how it is killed.

              I very much agree with how heavy glossy paper is. The House and Garden mags that float around no doubt bought by women enslaved by capitalism, when gathered to be thrown out eventually for recycling, result in the banana carton being impossible to lift for one ordinary person.
              Trouble is that everything has to be glossy these days, we deserve only the best style.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                16 January 2018 at 2:09 pm

                I’ll be looking at a beast myself later this year (in partnership with my sister in law) and animal welfare is top of my list

          • james 8.1.1.1.2
            16 January 2018 at 1:01 pm

            “It is amazing how set in their ways people can become”

            I assume you are trying to be ironic.

            • cleangreen 8.1.1.1.2.1
              17 January 2018 at 8:21 am

              Give this cynical shit a bloody rest James as you have simply overdone the ‘meat’ issue, as t has become so ‘overcooked’ (literately)

              Howabout you talk about ‘real public affairs issues’ can you!!!

              And suggest some positive outcomes issues as we guide the new government to make our lives better can you.

          • Psycho Milt 8.1.1.1.3
            16 January 2018 at 1:28 pm

            You did not even listen to or read Michael Greger.

            I’d advise him not to bother. I only needed to read his appalling diabetes advice to realise he needs quote marks around the word “facts” in Nutrition”Facts”.org.

        • Gabby 8.1.1.2
          16 January 2018 at 7:07 pm

          Being deaded is a bit of a downside jimbo. Do you limit your gnawing to the bones of the ones that die of old age?

  9. Muttonbird 9
    16 January 2018 at 10:07 am

    Did Bill English refer to Māori as “someone else’s language” this morning? Heard a rumour.

  10. Ed 10
    16 January 2018 at 10:32 am

    The Herald, to its credit is running a series of interview with scientists to look at the environmental challenges facing New Zealand (and the world). Yesterday they published the brief Q and A with Professor James Renwick.
    In his answers to a few questions, Renwick outlined the severity of the threat facing the planet. It is not looking good…

    The Big Read: Climate change – the best and worst for NZ

    The Herald
    What has driven this (increases in greenhouse gas emissions) and does it tell us New Zealand has been poor at addressing climate change?

    Professor James Renwick
    The difference between gross and net is explained by cutting down trees, basically.
    Our “sinks” of CO2 have decreased as forests have shrunk.
    Our sources have grown mostly from transport and industry.
    We have one of the highest car-ownership rates in the world and use a lot of fossil fuel to power industrial plant.
    Both net and gross numbers tell us that New Zealand has done nothing to address the causes of climate change.

    The Herald
    What do you make of the oft-made argument that what actions we take here are relatively insignificant, given we contribute just around 0.15 per cent of global emissions and future climate depends on the big polluters. Is this true to any extent?

    Professor James Renwick
    Of course the global profile of emissions is dominated by the big emitters.
    But on a per-capita basis, New Zealand is one of the big emitters.
    We are in the top 10 globally, per head of population, and there is as much of an onus on us as on the Chinese or the Americans to reduce our emissions.
    Plus, there is the “soft power” angle of being a leader, showing others how it’s done, that would benefit us on the international stage.

    The Herald
    You toured the country recently to speak about climate change. Did the response suggest Kiwis are genuinely concerned about it? I note one survey a few years ago found only half of Kiwis agreed there was a scientific consensus human-driven climate change was actually happening, although more recent studies tell us awareness and acceptance of the science has been growing.

    Professor James Renwick
    Yes. We had full houses almost everywhere we went and the questions suggested strongly that those who came out to hear us are very interested and very concerned.
    But, across the broader population, it’s harder to say. Because there’s been no political leadership, most people probably give it very little thought and are more apathetic than concerned or dismissive.

    The Herald
    That aside, does New Zealand still have a sceptic problem? Are there still too many Kiwis who reject the scientific consensus?

    Professor James Renwick
    There are some, but I suspect it’s a minority.
    I receive regular emails telling me I have the science wrong, but they come from a very small number of individuals.
    I’d say the major issue is that most people don’t even think about it.

    The Herald
    So how hopeful are you, actually, that the world will avert the worst possible effects of climate change? Where do you place your optimism on a scale of one to 10?

    Professor James Renwick
    I am hopeful we can avoid the real worst-case scenario but I am pessimistic about the 1.5C or even 2C limit.
    My gut feeling is that we won’t stop the warming until we are committed to 2.5C or even 3C of temperature rise.
    That would lock in loss of the West Antarctic ice sheet, plus most of Greenland and part of the east Antarctic and would commit the globe to 10m or more of sea level rise.
    Plus of course a big rise in extreme high temperatures, droughts, floods and crop failures.
    Because of the delay time built into the climate system, it’s my feeling that we won’t take decisive action until a lot of change is baked in, so we’ll have a great deal of adapting to do.
    On a scale of one to 10 for optimism, I’m about a three.
    I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

    The challenge for the Herald is follow through. One of John Campbell’s great features that singles him out in the New Zealand media landscape is that he and his team at Campbell Live ( and now Checkpoint) stuck with a story.

    James Renwick clearly identified that

    the major issue is that most people don’t even think about it (climate change).

    The media have a lot to answer for on this.

    We cannot control what John Roughan and the editors of the Herald do.
    But we can certainly keep this issue prominent and endeavour to do all we can to confrontthe issue Renwick mentions – that

    most people probably give it very little thought and are more apathetic than concerned or dismissive.

    So what are you waiting for?
    Let’s save what is left of life on our planet before it is too late. We have 10 years.

      • Ed 10.1.1
        16 January 2018 at 11:35 am

        Thank you
        I tried to put links in the comments cleanly on FAQ and must have made a mistake.

      • greywarshark 10.1.2
        16 January 2018 at 3:32 pm

        Ed
        You have produced some great links and important points here on ts. I appreciate it enormously and I am sure most others do also, so keep on. But just as a health measure note the point in Thought of the Day how laughter is good too. I think you should give yourself one day in three off the computer and do something different or it will grind you down mentally. And you are a valuable fact finder and activist here, so we need you. Do this and conserve your energies physical and mental ready for the next lot of stuff. And remember to put up any good stuff you see will you, and vice versa. We need to keep our fighting spirits up. I hope you will be advised about this.

        And while I think of it I will just put up something again that we need to keep thinking about, which you yourself might have originally put up here.
        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/04/oceans-suffocating-dead-zones-oxygen-starved
        Oceans suffocating as huge dead zones quadruple since 1950, scientists warn.

        I was shocked at the image of all the little fish ankle deep on a beach in Chile. A fisherman is standing in and on them and no doubt thinking ruefully of his hungry family.

    • Ed 10.2
      16 January 2018 at 2:54 pm

      James Renwick condemns Doug Edmeades.
      In my opinion, far too nicely.
      There were people who denied the Final solution was going on, despite evidence, from 1942 onwards. Their ‘scepticism’ cost many lives.
      Every time an Edmeades delays action by his sowing of doubt, he costs many lives.

      Between 2030 and 2050, climate change is expected to cause approximately 250 000 additional deaths per year, from malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea and heat stress.

      http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs266/en/

      Climate change and climate sceptics

      As the un-named tobacco executive said decades ago, when faced with hard scientific evidence of the link between smoking and cancer: “Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the ‘body of fact’ that exists in the mind of the general public.”
      That tactic has been tried and tested many times, to throw doubt on smoking and cancer, air pollution and acid rain, CFCs and the ozone hole, and more recently fossil fuel burning and climate change.
      The excellent book Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway documents in great detail how this has been done and how successful it has been over the years.
      The concentration of carbon dioxide in the air has gone up over 40 per cent since we started burning oil and coal for fuel, the biggest change in the Earth’s atmosphere for over 3 million years.
      In his recent op-ed piece Doug Edmeades is clearly looking to sow seeds of doubt, to undermine established science, and to argue that there’s nothing to worry about. He seems to understand the idea that “doubt is our product”…….

      How Doug Edmeades thinks that the IPCC says there’s no connection between the two is a mystery to me.
      Doug Edmeades’ other ideas (polar bears are doing great, models are no good, and so on) are easily shown to be false with a bit of googling.
      None of us want the sorts of disruptions that the changing climate is bringing. But, if we are to get on top of this biggest of problems, we must get our heads around the fact that after thousands of years of stability, things are changing, sea levels are rising, and we must respond.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 10.2.1
        16 January 2018 at 3:12 pm

        Edmeades trashing his own credibility again. Looks like there’s a gap in the NZ soil science market 😈

        • Ed 10.2.1.1
          16 January 2018 at 11:10 pm

          Rachel Stewart on Twitter
          Pithy as ever.

          “Doug Edmeades: Why I’m a global warming sceptic.
          I already know the two answers to that. He loves money, and is a moron. “

  11. Philip Ferguson 11
    16 January 2018 at 12:02 pm

    Very good review of Wolff’s book on Trump’s madhouse.
    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/01/14/in-review-fire-and-fury-inside-trumps-madhouse/

  12. lprent 12
    16 January 2018 at 12:45 pm

    A pleasant morning watching the sun rising over Singapore this morning from the 21st floor of the hotel (holy vertigo!).

    It is a completely different city to the one that I last looked at in 1990. Talking to my dad in Rotorua this morning and he was describing the city state of hovels and open drains that he first saw in 1975 and it is hard to see the downside.

    I do like the fact that these days when I have to travel, I can call up without problems, and that I can still stay connected to this site and my servers. It makes a hell of difference.

    Pity about the weather during the day. Way too hot and humid for me. It makes me look forward to winter or even summer in Auckland.

    Time to finish the coffee, pack up my gear, and venture forth into the open humidity. Debugging software interactions with hardware in the field is a sweaty experience.

    • indiana 12.1
      16 January 2018 at 12:51 pm

      I think Jacinda Adern would describe Singapore as classic example of failed capitalism, especially in the area of housing.

    • james 12.2
      16 January 2018 at 1:08 pm

      Enjoy – its a great place to work or relax for a bit.

      The street food can be fantastic.

      Having travelled a lot (waaaaay too much for waaaaay too long) as an IT guy I would say Singapore was always one of my favourite countries to be based for a week or two.

      • Muttonbird 12.2.1
        16 January 2018 at 3:07 pm

        I meant to comment on this sort of behaviour last time you showed it. The need to promote ones own ‘success’ is virtue signalling for the right wing.

        The barbecue gloating incident was another example.

        • james 12.2.1.1
          16 January 2018 at 5:12 pm

          You see – you call it virtue signalling – I call it commenting on a thread on ones own experiences.

          And the BBQ – ‘gloating’ fuck your life must be miserable if you find someone commenting that they are having a BBQ with friends or family.

          I hope you still have the former, but would not shock me if you were lacking in the later based on your miserable attitude to everything.

          • Gabby 12.2.1.1.1
            16 January 2018 at 7:17 pm

            And portly.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.1.2
            16 January 2018 at 11:21 pm

            James, what a mess of a post, and it was only 5pm!

            I think you’d struggle to find support here for any claim your barbecue comment was an innocent celebration.

            The reaction you got showed that other commenters viewed it as trolling and that’s what right wing virtue-signalling is; trolling.

            A lot of commenters here don’t have large family units to celebrate with (you probably haven’t noticed). Others enjoy their lives with their families without feeling the need to broadcast it, so why do you? My guess is you’re overcompensating.

            Along with your virtue-signalling there’s a typical self-righteousness, a lack of awareness, and a lack of empathy.

            • ropata 12.2.1.1.2.1
              16 January 2018 at 11:41 pm

              In RWNJ culture it is normal to blather on about your trips around the world and all the hassles you are experiencing with your property portfolio. NZ is a two tier society and the wealthy are insulated/ignorant of the extreme privation that their behaviour has caused to the rest of NZ

              • Stunned Mullet …
                17 January 2018 at 9:20 am

                What behaviour from the wealthy has caused this extreme privation to NZ and for that matter who are these wealthy you point the stick at and what is the extreme privation that the rest of NZ are suffering ?

                • ropata …
                  17 January 2018 at 12:37 pm

                  Maybe you should pay attention to the news instead of ignoring the uncomfortable bits about homelessness, suicide, unemployment, pollution, exploitation

            • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1.1.2.2
              17 January 2018 at 8:53 am

              I didn’t have a problem with his post, in fact i was a envious because it sounded like a good time is had by all

      • Gabby 12.2.2
        16 January 2018 at 7:17 pm

        You quite elderly then jimbo.

    • Kay 12.3
      16 January 2018 at 3:11 pm

      Yes, knock off 10 degrees and halve the humidity and it would be a lovely city/country!
      (Although I’d happily say the same for Wellington right now…)

      I’m really not sure how anyone can live in those equatorial countries- I still remember the 2 day Singapore stopover 14 years ago and being physically ill from the heat, spending most of the time indoors and keeping the hotel air conditioning set to 15C!

  13. adam 13
    16 January 2018 at 1:12 pm

    This really is frustrating. The full power of the state thrown at peaceful protesters who attempted to stop the Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI) arms fair.

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/first-46-activists-trial-protesting-government-backed-dsei-arms-fair-found-guilty/12/01/

    More court cases to come.

    Time to stand up for peace.

  14. Ed 14
    16 January 2018 at 1:32 pm

    I shall quote extensively from Martin Bradbury’s article today as it supports what I have been saying for quite a while on this site.

    The spectre at the feast during the negotiations for the new Government last year was the deep seated belief that a serious economic collapse was coming.
    It shaped the way Winston Peters approached the negotiations ands it’s the reason the agreement between him and Jacinda will never be released.
    Almost everywhere now, alarm bells are ringing that the correction is coming.
    The stratospheric asset markets pumped up by quantitate easing to try and fight off the 2007-2008 global financial recession are all starting to shake and shudder under the enormous weight of debt created wealth the current economic system must now try and carry……..

    The reverberations will swamp us, and may already be impacting our real estate market and the sudden ratcheting up of a trade war between China and America could become a reality within weeks…

    Read the whole article here.

    Buckle up. This is going to be a rough ride.
    All the canaries in the minefield are dead – the looming economic correction

    • Stuart Munro 14.1
      16 January 2018 at 5:27 pm

      Gold prices are turning up, but they’re nowhere near recent highs. If a bust is in the wings it’s probably a wee way off.

  15. greywarshark 15
    16 January 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Looking to the future, if we go on with attitudes as are presently displayed, it seems to me that eventually we will become like the people in John Christopher’s the Tripods.
    They were taken over by an overwhelming invasion and were encouraged to believe it was to their advantage to continue their lives as before, except just do what they were told. Life wouldn’t be difficult, but they needed to be calm and limit their emotions and to assist this they would have a ‘chip’ to limit their minds which was called a cap.

    John Christopher wrote three adventure books for young adults around this idea, the first called The White Mountains. The trilogy were called The Tripods which were the metallic aliens in ships on three long movable legs. A TV series was made about it, very dramatic and aimed at teenagers and the young. But Christopher had thought about the way that reality would show in this scenario. I think the summary below expresses our situation well.

    Like most of Christopher’s books for young readers, The White Mountains dramatizes painful truths about human nature and raises important questions about what makes life worth living.

    Christopher believes that human beings are inevitably flawed, and that technological achievement is a mixed blessing in the hands of fallible people. Still, he holds out hope that strong individuals, bound together by a desire to protect freedom of thought and free will, may yet save humanity from its own worst impulses.
    http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-white-mountains/#gsc.tab=0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tripods

    • Puckish Rogue 15.1
      16 January 2018 at 2:21 pm

      I always wondered why, considering the adaptions coming out these days, The Tripods wasn’t made for the big screen

      • greywarshark 15.1.1
        16 January 2018 at 3:08 pm

        I looked at the various headings for The Tripods and it seems that the film rights were gained by someone about 2009 and then it didn’t go ahead. Then rumoured that it would 2011-12 and then something about it in 2015. But I couldn’t find more and thought I’d better stop.

        It may have been a problem getting two personable young actors as leads, it may have been that it started off in the TV version in a quaint village with horse and carts and later one of the boys ends up in France with a Count’s friendship, but then he finds that the daughter who was nice, and the Count have both been capped and he decides to steer clear.

        So there are problems for USA citizens who hardly know where some of their states are, if they have part film in France. And the romance line is fractured. And there are two friends so they need two young men. The future is uncertain, and ambiguous. The idea of the boys’ homeland being overtaken by aliens might be too scary for the survivalists in the USA.

        I think they need to sell it to Disney, they can do dramatic darker stories than Princessy ones, or perhaps sell it for automation or comic-book treatment. There was a good one out on DVD recently drawn well, called Kubo and the Two Strings which took my fancy and this could be good like that one.

        • McFlock 15.1.1.1
          16 January 2018 at 3:37 pm

          “development hell”.

          It’s apparently sort of a limbo where scripts/treatments/rights get flipped around, redrafted, never get just enough cash to start casting and filming, but get just enough interest that people keep trying to push it.

    • joe90 15.2
      16 January 2018 at 4:20 pm

      I can vaguely recall the series so time to watch it again.

      https://archive.org/details/TheTripodscomplete

  16. cleangreen 16
    16 January 2018 at 2:37 pm

    Jacinda is poised to handle the next coming GFC it seems as her words of wisdom are plain here.

    November 8th 2017 – we received this email;

    With the opening of Parliament today, the Government began our legislative agenda. This is where the real change begins.

    I want the way this Government runs to be different.

    It will be a Government of transformation.

    We’ll put people right at the heart of our agenda.

    Every decision will be assessed on its impact on people and at every turn, our Government will be guided by kindness and compassion.

    As well as our values, we laid out our policy plans for the term today.

    They’re firmly focused on making New Zealanders’ lives even better.

    We will fix the housing crisis, build up our education system, ensure everyone can get the healthcare they need, take action on climate change, develop our regions and raise everyone’s incomes.

  17. SPC 17
    16 January 2018 at 3:39 pm

    The GOP tax cut secured, the Pentagon campaign for a major increase in defence spending begins. The imperial regime of mammon and fortresses knows the importance of timing.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11976004

    A debased (4T in QE) currency, a large budget deficit and growing debt, rising inequality at home (Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid they cannot sustain), a coming trade with China but dependent on China for bond sales.

    Struggling to cope in conventional capability (in both the European and East Asian theatres), because of the vast spend up modernisation of the Russian and Chinese forces (who are constantly exposing this to them. And then there is the whole nuclear arsenal renewal thing … .

    This is what the end of an imperial power looks like.

    Of course the arrogant bluster of the sociopathic bully distracts from this reality, showing why Trump is just the man for the job. A buffoon fronting another round of tax cuts and increased Pentagon spending, and why not when it worked for Reagan.

    What was the relative size of the USA economy to Russia and China then, compared to now?

    Of course there is soft power – something Trump squanders every time he tweets.

  18. Ad 18
    16 January 2018 at 3:49 pm

    I try not to get all maudlin and crap on about the latest doomycult news, but the idea that Russia has been making consistent advances in nuclear weapons, and the Pentagon wants funding to catch up with them, is just so OH PUH-Leeeze.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11976004

    It doesn’t surprise me, it’s just a minor maudlin moment.

    OK I’m fine now.

    As you were.

  19. McFlock 19
    16 January 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Yep, that’s the shit that’ll kill us all.

  20. Exkiwiforces 20
    16 January 2018 at 4:45 pm

    I some how ended up watch this last night on the Australian ABC’s Foreign Correspondent were I was working on my reply to Ad’s thread on Climate Change and the NZDF before I head back into Hospital again for a possible Biopsy on Monday.

    With the hard right in the US arming up and bearing firearms in open as they can do in a number of states for self protection. It appears that members of the hard left are taking up arms and bearing firearms in the open as well.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-15/redneck-revolt-and-the-hard-lefts-call-to-arms/9303758

  21. Morrissey 21
    16 January 2018 at 5:47 pm

    “If Oprah’s the best we’ve got, this is the end of politics.”

  22. eco maori 22
    17 January 2018 at 12:58 am

    My neoliberal neighbour has done what everyone does and underestimated ECO Maori . You and the red head Idiot from Tokoroa have told everyone lies about me and told them you where going to LOCK UP that Maori yes they are racist bigots Im untouchable NOW sandflies. You are using all the tricks you can dream up to make me lose both my JOBS who cares about that Maoris Mokos future he can go on the dole and set a good example to his mokos of where a Maori should be broke .Well get stuffed I have done nothing wrong Im not giving in to your intimidation Im not leaving any job . You people are breaking the LAW breaching my rights everyone knows about this fact.
    Nobby spends all his time trying to come up with a sceem to lock me up I found something in my wallet that i did not put there he sits in his garage with all the hardware and software to be able to hack my computer to stop me posting but you can’t stop me from posting using my Phone. Every time you get burned
    you blame me your mates siren dont phase me nor do your hoddy m8 you have contracted to use againsts me. All your bullshit just slips off my back like water off a ducks back don’t blame me for your shit bigots. I’v done nothing wrong or I would be in jail with all the lying accusations you have made against me.
    Ana to kai

  23. eco maori 23
    17 January 2018 at 10:25 am

    Yes the sandflys are still dreaming that I’m going to wake up and turn into a idiot sorry not going to happen. They had 2 cops who looked like the chief of police pointing a speed camera at me on lakes boulevard Tauranga that article about the house being built in tauranga must have pissed them off well to me the people wellbeing comes first. They are pouring on there dum ass intimidation tactics today the can kiss my_______ LOL Ana to kai