Open mike 16/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 16th, 2024 - 35 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

35 comments on “Open mike 16/11/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. gsays 1
    16 November 2024 at 6:24 am

    The cynic in me can't help but conclude, the Treaty Principles Bill was bought forward less to allow Luxon to be absent but to bury responses to the Abuse in State Care findings.

    To see Findlayson opine as to what folk from overseas must think about haka in the debating chamber was galling.

    This is one of the many disgraceful MPs that colluded to continue to disempower victims of the state's violence.

    The old adage, it isn't the crime that catches you it's the cover up comes to mind.

    • Dennis Frank 1.1
      16 November 2024 at 8:54 am

      The left must continue to collude with the right, though, to maintain our neo-colonial system. Everyone expects such normalcy to remain.

      “Dr Leeks, was using treatment methods to punish and attempt to modify behaviour in a way that the Crown then, and still, thought was unacceptable, an unacceptable way to treat those children, and didn’t put any of them to proof over that because the proof was right there in the file, in the very systems that the hospital and Dr Leeks ran,” she said.

      Bomber cites the Solicitor-General here: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/11/15/the-solicitor-general-is-scum-and-she-should-be-sacked-for-her-legal-cruelty-and-treason-against-the-abused/

      Note this authoritative assertion from the S-G: the Crown thinks. Readers aware that the Crown is an abstract entity may deduce that it is incapable of thought. Lawyers and judges disagree with such common sense. They have equated corporations with humans since the US Supreme Court decided there was no difference between the two back in the mid-19th century. Psychopathy is built into the control system.

      Bomber also believes the Crown thinks. Its thoughts are nasty:

      So the Crown had always known that what Leeks was doing was not acceptable treatment. It knew this because it had documentary evidence in its own files. Despite this knowledge, the Crown responded to victims in ways that put them through more trauma by denying their allegations or expecting them to prove them in a court; the Crown held overwhelming documentary evidence these allegations were true but withheld this evidence on numerous occasions.

      Euphemisms galore. Public servants did the nasty stuff. Not the Crown. It lives in the sky like the other deities, unaccountable. "Who, me? I never told them to do that shit! My hands are clean! Cloud 9 is sacrosanct!

    • SPC 1.2
      16 November 2024 at 5:05 pm

      Certainly to distract the MSM.

      1.it's link to discrimination against Maori in policing practice of that era.

      2.The abuse was a known to Crown Law in the 1990's

      There had been failures to investigate in the 1970s when racial justice advocate Dr Oliver Sutherland and his colleagues at ACORD (Auckland Committee Opposed to Racial Discrimination) exposed abuse occurring at institutions like Owairaka and later at Lake Alice. An inquiry into Lake Alice at this time was essentially a whitewash and crucial evidence was withheld.

      in the early 1970s the Department of Social Welfare starting sending wards of the state to Lake Alice

      “The record itself showed that Dr Leeks and other staff were using ECT and other forms of things that are treatment as behavioural modification and/or punishment for those purposes and not for treatment.”

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/11/15/the-solicitor-general-is-scum-and-she-should-be-sacked-for-her-legal-cruelty-and-treason-against-the-abused/

      2.The UN

      The failure to act, once the scale of the "human rights" abuse was a known, placed us on the UN radar. The cover up was in procedural practice to mitigate government accountability.

      That failure was not the failure of an individual (why Hipkins disagrees with scapegoating of employees in Crown Law), because this goes on upward SG, AG, Ministers of Health, Social Welfare, a number of governments established by the GG.

      It reminds one of the former lack of support for carers, the risible level for those with disability and lack of ACC type support for those with health and sickness issues. And people waiting years to get teeth extracted, or who lack access to a GP.

      It is about rule of by and for the comfortable and complacent middle class.

      3.This goes onto a lack of protection from stalking, the level of violence to women and children, and a general vulnerability of those not part of the gated communities to injustice, and without access to reliable process for redress.

  2. Joe90 2
    16 November 2024 at 8:17 am

    Those protest votes were worth it.

    /

    (Video)

    Eli Kowaz – איליי קואז

    @elikowaz

    "There is no such thing as the West Bank – it's Judea and Samaria. There is no such thing as settlements – they're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities. There is no such thing as an occupation." -Mike Huckabee, Incoming US Ambassador to Israel

    https://xcancel.com/elikowaz/status/1856417592027820409

    • Morrissey 2.1
      16 November 2024 at 9:14 am

      So they should have swallowed the diseased dead rat and ensured that the regime of "Bloody Blinken" remained in power should they?

      So it's the fault not of the American political class but of the voters who were forced to choose between two evils. And to vote for the one remotely decent presidential candidate (Jill Stein) was not a statement of principle but an irresponsible act.

      Thanks for that.

      • tWig 2.1.1
        16 November 2024 at 10:50 am

        An interesting Guardian piece on the rise in food prices internationally due to climate disruption (e.g. our butter has gone up because of blue-tongue fever hitting European herds), and its effect on a swing to right-wing votes in many countries.

        For example, in the US " about 75% of those voting Republican reported that they had faced “hardship” or “severe hardship” as a result of price rises; only 25% of Democrats said the same. When Trump asked if Americans felt better now than they did four years ago, the answer for most was a clear no."

        "Yet our economic modelling often fails to capture the experience of rising prices. Last year, official US figures suggested that voters there were living in the “greatest economy ever”, with rising GDP and inflation rapidly falling, which is why Kamala Harris’s defeat has been condescendingly blamed on the “vibecession” – implying that voters feel bad for no good reason. But you can’t eat GDP."

      • joe90 2.1.2
        16 November 2024 at 2:56 pm

        not a statement of principle but an irresponsible act.

        Apparently so.

        .

        Hassan Abdel Salam, a former professor at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities and co-founder of the Abandon Harris campaign, which endorsed Green Party candidate Jill Stein, said Trump's staffing plans were not surprising, but had proven even more extreme that he had feared.

        "It's like he's going on Zionist overdrive," he said. "We were always extremely skeptical…Obviously we're still waiting to see where the administration will go, but it does look like our community has been played."

        https://www.reuters.com/world/us/muslims-who-voted-trump-upset-by-his-pro-israel-cabinet-picks-2024-11-15/

    • Jenny 2.2
      16 November 2024 at 11:23 am

      Thanks to Joe90:

      "There is no such thing as the West Bank – it's Judea and Samaria. There is no such thing as settlements – they're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities. There is no such thing as an occupation." -Mike Huckabee, Incoming US Ambassador to Israel

      https://xcancel.com/elikowaz/status/1856417592027820409

      We are all complicit to some extent with this unhinged psychopath and his mates plan to turn his racist fantasy into reality by liquidating the indigenous Palestinian inhabitants.

      Some of us, (like Simon Dallow), with our words, the rest of us with our silence.

      Not sure which is worse,

      In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

      Martin Luther King, Jr.

      • SPC 2.2.1
        16 November 2024 at 3:43 pm

        There is a 75 year circle involved here.

        The UN determined in 1949 that it would not recognise territory acquired in war.

        This in response to the expansion of the state of Israel borders after the 1948 "conflict/fighting/war".

        Thus the once sacrosanct 1967 border line.

        Since then, the break-up of Pakistan, the USSR and Yugoslavia (with Kosovo out of one of its republics Serbia).

        (breached since – Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea by Russia and then when the USA recognised that of Israel of the Golan Heights). Now Russia seeks more than Crimea, but parts of Ukraine – land of lithium deposits worth trillions. And Israel the WB and the gas fields off Gaza?).

        Trump does not respect what is, the rule of oligarchy and hegemon has returned. The techies want to rule, anti-trust restraint is leaving.

        Airports and those on a higher plane than those down below.

        We are now all indigenous peoples (nation state before imperial mammon) on this planet.

        There has been nothing of the like since the Mycenaean age was ended by piracy and looting and pillaging of the commons, city by city.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    16 November 2024 at 9:17 am

    Shipley expressed fervently her critique of ACT's initiative, calling it malicious, and expounded the Nat view of the Treaty perhaps even more emphatically than Finlayson, on RNZ this morning: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018964425/dame-jenny-shipley-on-treaty-principles-bill

    As a hard rightist, one would not expect her to use the word social and she didn't, but she did call it a contract about half a dozen times in her 12 minutes of interview. She also uttered the word contempt in commenting on Seymour!

    • Morrissey 3.1
      16 November 2024 at 9:23 am

      She was extremely articulate and impressive in her contempt for Seymour. As was Willie Jackson on TVNZ's Breakfast the day before.

    • Anne 3.2
      16 November 2024 at 10:36 am

      She described the bill as :

      … a malicious, politically motivated. fundraising motivated attempt to politicise the Treaty in a new way and it should raise people's voices…

      Its doing that alright and I welcome her contribution even if I don't agree with her politics. I think we are only seeing the start of a wave of condemnation from former high placed individuals in this country.

      I welcome all of it.

      • Dennis Frank 3.2.1
        16 November 2024 at 11:09 am

        She's given the country a signal alright. I've never agreed with anything she's said in the past but like you I see it as a significant development. Finlayson ain't alone in carrying the flame for the tradition established by Bolger's govt. Unless we get any young Nat MP's going public to support Seymour, it will prevail.

    • AB 3.3
      16 November 2024 at 7:14 pm

      I was a bit underwhelmed to see her emphasis on the 'sanctity of contracts' as a reason for honouring the treaty as it is, and for not attempting any unilateral reinterpretation it. It's a very conservative framing. I think contracts have limited sanctity only – and can be overturned if they are an offence against natural justice or are merely coercive instruments used by the strong to control the weak. Instead, I would have preferred to see a defence of the Treaty based on its function of providing political and moral legitimacy to NZ as a nation, despite our history as a settler-colonial state.

      My reading of it is that she is genuine in her feelings. But it's also in part a defense of the National Party from any collateral damage for allowing Seymour to take it this far. Her speaking out indicates division on the right, which is always good to see as it weakens them.

  4. Koina 4
    16 November 2024 at 11:10 am

    Of course Seymour is simply appealing to the basic fundamental tenants of White Right wing politics prejudice, ignorance, entitlement, hate, greed and power.

    Unfortunately Maori are once more taking the bait hook line and sinker.

    It would have been far better for Maori to have simply ignored the bill, not attended any of the bills reading in Parliament and just said we will see you in court if the Bill goes through. Let the White folk talk to themselves. Like Waitangi day Maori should never go there just let the Whites talk to themselves.

    Act is doing Nationals dirty work for them.

    Meanwhile National does not have to explain where the 200,000 new jobs are they promised, or where the 200,000 new houses are they promised or where are the 200,000 more operations a year they promised.

    Politics is an easy game selling to a largly ignorant and easily led populace.

  5. Reality 5
    16 November 2024 at 12:37 pm

    Amazing! Dame Jenny Shipley has spoken out with frankness and force on Radio NZ about Seymour's antics. Was really good and surprising to see a side to her that we would not have ever expected.

  6. joe90 6
    16 November 2024 at 12:49 pm

    Greg Sargent:

    .

    Trump’s New Oligarchy Is About to Unleash Unimaginable Corruption

    The elevation of Elon Musk to a key role suggests that right-wing elites are set to embark on a spree of sordid self-dealing.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/188467/trumps-musk-oligarchy-corruption

    • Dennis Frank 6.1
      16 November 2024 at 1:09 pm

      He's onto it. The whole point of having the system is to game it, as per tradition:

      It is sometimes argued that Trump’s reelection was driven by revulsion at “elites.” However true that is, it’s not hard to see what’s coming next.

      If and when Trump’s initiatives—from canceling prosecutions of himself to unleashing hell on immigrants—spur widespread criticism, certain pundits will intone that the criticism merely reflects his success in “taking on the elite class.” Meanwhile, Trump will be selling the government off for parts to his oligarchic right-wing elite cronies, and the jarring incongruity of it all won’t disturb these pundits in the slightest.

      Obviously if the Dems were authentic, they would oppose the elites. Not doing so sent Trump the signal that he should exploit the opportunity they offered him. Hilary fell into the trap without even having to be nudged – we noticed at the time the msm pointing out how she was campaigning to represent Wall St.

      His focus on the potential for T to exploit the opportunity stands in puzzling contrast to his evasion of why the Dems continue to refrain from opposing the elites. Its as if the left glove puppet is reluctant to oppose the right glove puppet. Surely they must realise that simulating opposition is what the system requires, to suck in the suckers?

      • joe90 6.1.1
        16 November 2024 at 8:03 pm

        Obviously if the Dems were authentic, they would oppose the elites.

        And truth will out…lol

        /

        Disinformation is the new normal with far reaching implications for society, including population health. Martin McKee and colleagues outline the challenges and propose a way forward

        Donald Trump did not win the 2020 election, but asserting that he did became a prerequisite for Republicans standing for nomination to Congress or the Senate to win their primaries. An entire party became a vehicle for disinformation.1 Trump did win the 2024 presidential election, and key to that victory was building on the success of that lie. If you control enough of the information ecosystem, truth no longer matters.

        https://www.bmj.com/content/387/bmj.q2485?

        A near-majority of American voters willingly reelected Donald Trump. This harsh reality is a collective moral failure, but it’s also not a choice made in sound mind.

        Consider that voters believed Trump’s first presidency was a roaring success and Joe Biden’s only term a Carter-level catastrophe. It’s an upside-down Bizarro World view that ultimately played a key role in dooming Kamala Harris.

        […]

        Trump’s 2024 platform was rooted in an obvious lie — that the nation under Biden’s leadership is a flaming dumpster fire and everyone was much better off when Trump was president. Democrats challenged this false reality with facts, but they ultimately lost the messaging war. Their best efforts were no match for the most powerful weapons in Trump’s propaganda arsenal — a timid press and a right-coded social social media environment.

        https://www.publicnotice.co/p/how-tiktok-x-helped-trump-beat-harris-2024

    • SPC 6.2
      16 November 2024 at 5:10 pm

      One wonders if Musk's Chinese supply lines will be exempt from tariffs.

  7. joe90 7
    16 November 2024 at 2:32 pm

    Want a chip?

    @brookejarvis.bsky.social‬

    Today in relatable science: Gulls making a mysterious daily trip that turned out to be to a potato chip factory

    https://bsky.app/profile/brookejarvis.bsky.social/post/3laz6wtmo4c2v

    • I Feel Love 7.1
      16 November 2024 at 6:25 pm

      Very funny, also I'm loving Bluesky, I just discovered yesterday, it's so refreshing & delightful.

  8. I Feel Love 8
    16 November 2024 at 6:30 pm

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/govt-quiet-option-selling-hospital-building

    "The Otago Daily Times reported Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand (HNZ) advisers rushing to deliver the project within the fiscal envelope earlier this year suggested both selling the outpatients building and leasing it back, or third-party funding for the inpatients building as possible options." – hardly a surprise, but how does that make sense as an option, we build it, sell it, lease it back. Nice to have the ODT on this!

    • Muttonbird 8.1
      16 November 2024 at 6:57 pm

      Indeed, why stop at hospital buildings when things 'go wrong'? Why not privatise everything when things 'go wrong'.

      Wellington Council has gone wrong because a brown woman is in charge. Sell it. Sell the Wellington council to whoever because Wellington Council is impossible for New Zealanders to run properly.

      NZ parliament didn't look good this week with our version of the KKK introducing a bill to tear up the only founding document we have.

      NZ parliament is not working properly, people are arguing, let's sell it. Let's sell it to private interests who are market economy disciplined.

      We’ll call it the Atlas Network NZ parliament®

  9. SPC 9
    16 November 2024 at 7:11 pm

    The Beehive Civilian can report that people in Real Men teeshirts are travelling from Auckland as far south as Bombay.

    In lockstep, with that open secret Project 2025, they want the nation declared a Christian state. They have the Trump (made in China pre tariffs) 2024 flags to show they are the local franchise of the Make Again cult – one which allows only one flag per country.

    (exceptions, the national flag, the confederate flag, state flag – banned rainbow flags, indigenous people flags and flags of those who carry ceremonial daggers and wear turbans)

    additional reporting

    MSM (the boring bits)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/traffic-disruption-warning-as-destiny-church-convoy-travels-on-sh1-to-auckland-domain/Q44CBBJX4ZFVBEPUZXSMJXGFZE/

    • Muttonbird 9.1
      16 November 2024 at 7:15 pm

      They are making Toitū Te Tiriti hikoi look like angels in the eyes of redneck voters…or are they?

      • SPC 9.1.1
        16 November 2024 at 7:34 pm

        Their own parliamentary protest included telling the Maori Party to fall into line with assimilation into a Christian state.

        Karl Mokaraka, who ran for Destiny Church's Vision NZ party last year, stood up in the public gallery and loudly declared his attendance.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533554/luxon-s-national-apology-interupted-heckler-removed-from-parliament

        They, Destiny Church, want to be seen as the fallen angels, here for a time, then up above in a cloud, when Brian ascends (from Tamaki to a higher value property value zone – it’s a prosperity religion thing, maybe Maui, maybe Omaha Beach). They just wanted to “be sorted”, like the PM.

        • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1
          16 November 2024 at 7:41 pm

          Would love it if Brian Tamaki ascended to the cloud sooner rather than later.

          Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest…

  10. SPC 10
    16 November 2024 at 8:34 pm

    The House will not embarrass POTUS 47, or his nomination for AG, by releasing an ethics report about Congressman Gaetz.

    The nomination was made public just before the report was due for release. Gaetz resigned from Congress immediately.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/533965/us-house-speaker-johnson-wants-gaetz-ethics-report-examining-allegations-of-sexual-misconduct-kept-secret

    https://newrepublic.com/post/188486/youll-never-guess-doesnt-want-gaetz-report-released