Open Mike 17/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 17th, 2017 - 145 comments
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145 comments on “Open Mike 17/12/2017 ”

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  1. James 1
    17 December 2017 at 7:09 am

    Beautiful day today.

    Doing a large BBQ for friends and family. Ribs, pork belly, and using some of the cow we had slaughtered a few weeks back.

    The Home kill guy made some seriously good sausages – food always seems to taste better when it’s Home kill

    Anyway – enjoy your Sunday.

    • Robert Guyton 1.1
      17 December 2017 at 7:41 am

      Thanks, James – Sunday’s a great day to be reminded of gluttony, especially for the flesh of farmed animals and reveling in the killing and consumption of domesticated animals somehow says “Christmas” to me, in a way that even plastic “Toy World” junk fails to do. While you’re chawing down on that juicy Home kill and gnawing on the bones of the cow you slaughtered a few weeks back, spare a thought for those who find your need to boast and broadcast your privileged lifestyle, unappetizing.

      • ScottGN 1.1.1
        17 December 2017 at 7:46 am

        On a brighter note Robert, my Pachystegia rufa is covered in its typical, rusty-coloured, furry buds and it’s about to flower.
        Anyone who can grow this, should. It’s one of our most spectacular native flowering plants and quite rare now in Marlborough.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 7:56 am

          They’re wonderful, aren’t they, Scott! You’re fortunate to be in the zone they prefer; they struggle a bit down here, especially in my shady garden. Has your weather been as hot and rain-free as Southland’s has of late? Our soil is powder-dry, though rain is promised for later today and tomorrow. This heat and dry is unprecedented.

          • ScottGN 1.1.1.1.1
            17 December 2017 at 9:23 am

            It’s been very dry Robert. And though I have plentiful water I have limited watering to the pots and vegetables. Everything else has just had to manage.
            Metservice has rain forecast today and it would be great if actually happened for a change.

      • Grey Area 1.1.2
        17 December 2017 at 8:02 am

        +1. Have to say as a 40-year vegetarian I found all this talk of eating dead animals wasn’t the best start for my Sunday.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.2.1
          17 December 2017 at 8:11 am

          James knows that there are people here who find his glorification of flesh-eating offensive, Grey Area, he just enjoys rubbing their noses in it. I expect he’ll come back all offended and in full justification mode. Mostly though, he likes to see his name written by others.

          • Grey Area 1.1.2.1.1
            17 December 2017 at 8:37 am

            Thanks Robert. I do sense his purpose but like others here I raise to the bait so to speak even though I know I shouldn’t. I remain hopeful that even James might become a sentient being and consider others. For now he is an irritant that you can’t help scratching.

      • Ed 1.1.3
        17 December 2017 at 8:19 am

        I found James’s comment obnoxious on several levels too .
        He glories in the killing of innocent sentient animals.
        He brags about his wealth.
        He celebrates the eating of domesticated animals and the massive carbon footprint such a diet cause.
        James is a very selfish person, so the only way he may change his habits is for health reasons.
        A meat eating diet is carcinogenic and causes heart diseases.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxhQquRvZ1w

        • tc 1.1.3.1
          17 December 2017 at 8:30 am

          James charicature seems to play the pure randian role.

        • Rightly or wrongly 1.1.3.2
          17 December 2017 at 11:33 am

          Funny, a bloke comments on anticipating a summer bbq and somehow he’s the devil?

          Is there no sense of enjoyment in leftie land?

          Must you always sit around like bitter old shrews scolding anyone with half a smile?

          I would have thought that leftie inc would be in great cheer this Christmas – an un likely election win, and a finance minister throwing out goodies like a long banned lollie scramble.

          But no we have to add bbqs to the list of ‘things we must not enjoy’ and mutter and moan about the msm and Nation.

          I don’t think it has sunk in yet – the left won you are allowed to smile.

          • Robert Guyton 1.1.3.2.1
            17 December 2017 at 2:44 pm

            “Funny, a bloke comments on anticipating a summer bbq and somehow he’s the devil?”
            The devil? More limp imp, James.

            “Is there no sense of enjoyment in leftie land?”
            Well, I for one enjoyed parsing James’ indelicate comments and I know others got a lift from handing him his ar*e ( or is that rump?)

            “Must you always sit around like bitter old shrews scolding anyone with half a smile?”
            From what I know of shrews, they never sit around – they’re driven constantly, at high speed, eating, insects mainly, in a frantic effort to keep themselves alive. And James’ wasn’t a half-smile, it was a smarmy leer (known here as a “Jami-Lee Ross).

            • In Vino 1.1.3.2.1.1
              17 December 2017 at 5:28 pm

              Rightly or Wrongly (usually the latter) – I saw James as saying blissfully, like a certain guy in a certain movie: “Ah, there is nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning.”
              And he deliberately dumped his crap on a website where he knew there were many pacifists.
              A shitty comment – not a celebration of happiness, and it takes a mind of similar quality to defend it.
              Go and cleanse yourself.
              And that is coming from a meat-eater.

          • Ed 1.1.3.2.2
            17 December 2017 at 2:47 pm

            This was not a comment about the left/right paradigm.
            It was about animal agriculture, the environment, cruelty and health.

      • Sanctuary 1.1.4
        17 December 2017 at 9:07 am

        Are a bit bit giddy from the thinness of the atmosphere up there on your high horse Robert? Honestly, your comment falls under the category of “if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all.”

        I’d like to think your churlish outburt is the result of an excess of gorse beer last night than a generally uncharitable disposition in this beautiful weather and season of goodwill.

        Also, there is nothing wrong in eating a cow that has had a life where it felt the sun on it’s back, chewed on sweet grass in green and peaceful pastures, and was able to moo lustily and generally express itself as a cow before it was slaughtered.

        • Ed 1.1.4.1
          17 December 2017 at 10:06 am

          ‘before it was slaughtered’

          I’m predicting you have never watched ‘Earthlings.’

        • Grey Area 1.1.4.2
          17 December 2017 at 1:32 pm

          “Also, there is nothing wrong in eating a cow that has had a life where it felt the sun on it’s back, chewed on sweet grass in green and peaceful pastures, and was able to moo lustily and generally express itself as a cow before it was slaughtered.”

          That’s your opinion whereas I would say that is still wrong. It doesn’t matter how “nice” a life an animal has lived if in the end it still has to be needlessly slaughtered simply so some humans who can afford to can eat animal flesh.

          In the future facing us a species killing animals so humans can continue to eat animal flesh is unsustainable.

          It is much more effective to use available land to produce plant-based protein rather than have animals convert it into second-hand protein that we have to kill them to access.

          • Sanctuary 1.1.4.2.1
            17 December 2017 at 1:45 pm

            The problem isn’t too many domestic animals, it is too many humans. Logically, we’d all turn to vegetarianism to simply stave off the fateful day when Malthus is finally proved right.

            If we were to limit meat production to what could be raised properly (as in the animal being able to exhibit it’s natural behaviour) the price of meat would soon turn most of us into vegetarians simply because there would more people than meat and it would be a luxury item.

            • Ed 1.1.4.2.1.1
              17 December 2017 at 2:52 pm

              You clearly have not researched the topic.
              I am always surprised by how many Standardistas are so closed mind about this subject.

              Watch Eating Our Way To Extinction .

              • Grey Area …
                17 December 2017 at 5:49 pm

                Thanks Ed. It’s not about ethical farming of animals is it? We simply shouldn’t be killing animals to eat their flesh when we don’t have to.

                I became a vegetarian around 40 years ago when I read a book that challenged me to consider that humans should be evolving and we have the choice! We don’t have to cause pain and suffering to other sentient beings simply for the pleasure of cooking and then chewing and swallowing their flesh.

                And now add to that the unsustainability of animal agriculture in a world with diminishing food resources and climate change upon us!

            • alwyn 1.1.4.2.1.2
              17 December 2017 at 6:38 pm

              @Sanctuary
              “when Malthus is finally proved right ”
              Are you perchance a fan of our current Government?
              Malthus certainly wouldn’t have been No WFF for that gentleman.
              “Malthus argued that population growth doomed any efforts to improve the lot of the poor. Extra money would allow the poor to have more children, only hastening the nation’s appointment with famine”
              https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/history_07
              Miserable old bastard he was..

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.4.2.1.3
              18 December 2017 at 7:52 am

              when Malthus is finally proved right.

              Malthus was full of shit.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.4.3
          17 December 2017 at 2:50 pm

          “Are a bit bit giddy from the thinness of the atmosphere up there on your high horse Robert? Honestly, your comment falls under the category of “if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all.””
          Without pointing out the obvious, Sanctuary, did you geddit?

          As to:
          ” a cow that has had a life where it felt the sun on it’s back, chewed on sweet grass in green and peaceful pastures, and was able to moo lustily and generally express itself as a cow ” – you’ve a Pollyanna-ish/Glad game view of farming, Sanctuary, it has to be said, even “chewed on sweet grass” misses the reality of cows forced to eat urea-pumped, all-but-toxicly-over-nitrated ryegrasses that cause the animal to pee excessively in order to rid themselves of a substance that would make them very sick indeed (dead). But hey, sheeps in the meadow, cowz in the corn, little boy blue etc…

          • Sanctuary 1.1.4.3.1
            17 December 2017 at 3:15 pm

            Well I don’t know about your grass, but mine isn’t most definitely not over-nitrated and my beef steers (all three of them) seem very happy chappies. As are my free range porkers (population: 4) and my small mob of sheep (got 32 of them, good lambing season this year from my ewes) and those three very annoying goats who have all the hours of the day to work out how to beat the electric fence. And the horses doesn’t seem to be excessively put out that I will sit on one of them every now and again and ride around in a large circle for no particular reason.

            We don’t eat the hens, on account of my sister’s excessive fondness for them and anyway IMHO it seems a bit rum to bump them off after they give us all those lovely eggs.

            At the end of the day I am not half as bothered at you being vegetarian as you appear to be, so I’d really just ask you to mind your own P’s and Q’s and look to your manners when passing judgement on others who are rather fond of a BBQ’d chop or three and procure said chops from happy animals in a sustainably farmed environment.

            And yes, my little corner of paradise is just that. A huge garden full of flowers and beautiful trees to look at from the porch on a summer evening, a vege patch bursting with bounty, and animals going about their business in a pastoral idyll fit for a J.S. Bach concerto.

            • Robert Guyton 1.1.4.3.1.1
              17 December 2017 at 3:41 pm

              ” I’d really just ask you to mind your own P’s and Q’s and look to your manners when passing judgement on others who are rather fond of a BBQ’d chop or three”
              But Sanctuary, I’ve no issue at all with those fond of eating meat, being a meat-eater myself and enjoying the principle of freedom of speech, t’sonly when some dill-pickle such as James chooses to start the day on a blog he trolls regularly with an unnecessarily provocative/gratuitous comment he knows will annoy the regulars, that I rise to the occasion. If it weren’t meat, it’d be rugby, or yachting or anything else that amuses him because it annoys others. Perhaps you feel he doesn’t do that, I don’t know.

              • Sanctuary …
                17 December 2017 at 4:02 pm

                “…Perhaps you feel he doesn’t do that, I don’t know…”

                I never read his comments, I discovered some time ago they were not worth the time of day.

                It is a bit like my astonishment that people continue to engage with Pete George. Time has long since past that I worked out he was an idiot who can’t be reasoned with, so now I just poke fun at him.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  17 December 2017 at 4:05 pm

                  As I do James. Q.E.D.

                • SPC …
                  17 December 2017 at 4:12 pm

                  Not an idiot.

                  Just a centrist with little relevance to those on the right or left and their debates/issues. Like all centrists, not just above the fray but a little self-righteous as a neutral commentator about the left and right.

                  It is not so much that he cannot be reasoned with, but that he is not someone who is going to be swayed to a leftist or rightist point of view, his pride is in being independent of both.

                • Grey Area …
                  17 December 2017 at 6:25 pm

                  Hah. Thanks for that. I was just about to respond to the Beige One so you’ve saved me the wasted time and effort.

            • Ed 1.1.4.3.1.2
              17 December 2017 at 5:56 pm

              Ah, we now realise why you are so closed minded on this issue.

      • marty mars 1.1.5
        17 December 2017 at 9:09 am

        Yep – James, shallow and privileged loves his superiority, his domination.

      • greywarshark 1.1.6
        17 December 2017 at 1:46 pm

        Robert Guyton
        May your cares waft away and your view be of happy faces and lots of affection and being with people who love other people and want the country to be a happy place where people’s needs are worked through with them, not authoritatively judged and allowed or declined on someone else’s perceived virtue.

    • Zorb6 1.2
      17 December 2017 at 8:23 am

      Did you say a ‘large’ BBQ for family and friends!Surely you jest.

    • Mister Smokey 1.3
      17 December 2017 at 8:35 am

      J:

      To Daisy, good utu. And this is for you:

      Your name works better backwards. So,

      Semaj-the-Perverse, botulism is a curse.

    • Ed 1.4
      17 December 2017 at 8:55 am

      For you James.
      Recommended viewing.

    • Incognito 1.5
      17 December 2017 at 9:54 am

      I’m very disappointed that you have not invited any Standardistas; if we’re good enough to read and comment on your comments surely we qualify as your “friends”. The least you can do is share a few selfies with us 😉

      • cleangreen 1.5.1
        17 December 2017 at 3:20 pm

        Ha ha ha, incognito,

        If could be risky as he may poison us with botulism or something.
        He seems wild as a pig gave some botulism last week.

        best to stay clear to ‘fight another day’.

    • OnceWasTim 1.6
      17 December 2017 at 11:06 am

      Did you serve any little weiner parts with the the pork belly?

    • McFlock 1.7
      17 December 2017 at 3:32 pm

      I’m hungry.

      • James 1.7.1
        17 December 2017 at 6:48 pm

        Wow so many people so precious over a bbq.

        Anyway has been a fantastic day. Lots of happy people enjoying themselves while some of you festered in bitterness.

        Might come as a shock – but there are a lot of Kiwis love a good bbq. But hey – you guys enjoy your sanctimonious salad. I’ll raise a lamb chop in your honour next weekend

        • Robert Guyton 1.7.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 7:01 pm

          blah blah q.
          Fify.

        • BM 1.7.1.2
          17 December 2017 at 7:05 pm

          Delicious bbq lamb shoulder chops.

          Had a piece of inch thick aged rump on the barbie last night, sensational.

          • Brigid 1.7.1.2.1
            17 December 2017 at 7:48 pm

            Shoulder chops? The cheap meat. We never use to cut shops off the shoulder because they were so inferior to the rib. Damn all meat, mostly fat and bone.
            Of course they’re ‘oh so fashionable’ now.
            Perfectly fit for the idiot ignorant nouveau riche neo liberal.

            • BM 1.7.1.2.1.1
              17 December 2017 at 7:58 pm

              BBQ Shoulder chops and roasted lamb knuckles are still some of my favourites bits of meat.

              You have to be a bit selective with shoulder chops you don’t just grab the first packet you see.

              • Ed …
                17 December 2017 at 8:26 pm

                Another ignoramus.
                Not interested in learning about the ethics, environmental and health issues surrounding meat eating.
                I’m alright Jack sums up your thinking.

                • BM …
                  17 December 2017 at 8:36 pm

                  Go fuck yourself, you boring pious vegan wanker.

                  • Ed …
                    17 December 2017 at 8:39 pm

                    So you aren’t aware of the issues.
                    So can’t debate them.
                    Instead you resort to verbal abuse.
                    Typical right wing bully boy.

                    Here’s a start for your learning.

                    • BM …
                      17 December 2017 at 8:42 pm

                      I couldn’t give a shit about “the issues”, I like eating meat, I will always eat meat.

                      Especially BBQ lamb shoulder chops.

                    • Ed …
                      17 December 2017 at 8:46 pm

                      You don’t know what the issues are.
                      And you don’t care to find about them.

                      Your own selfish needs outweigh anything else.
                      I wonder if you would have made sacrifices for the war effort between 1939 and 1945?
                      Or has neoliberalism poisoned all sense of community spirit in you?

                  • cleangreen …
                    17 December 2017 at 10:52 pm

                    What sort of person are you? BM,

                    Christ you dont need to act so aggressive do you?

                    Is that needed, you are just wanting to disrupt us all.

                    Try civility or be a little more human will you.

                    Just because we dont think like you you dont need to dump on us as we are fellow beings and have our thoughts to present on this social media platform.

                    Are you having difficulty handling life now under a labour lead government?

                    We suffered for nine years under your preferred political party and now its our turn to live in our political Party limelight.

                    This is called “democracy.”

                    • Ed …
                      17 December 2017 at 10:54 pm

                      James come on, brags about killing an animal, and eating it with his affluent friends and family.
                      People respond with disdain at such boastfulness and get abused.

                    • Ed …
                      18 December 2017 at 7:48 pm

                      It amazes me how close minded some people are.

                      “I couldn’t give a shit about “the issues”, I like eating meat, I will always eat meat.”

                      Imagine this 250 years ago.

                      “I couldn’t give a shit about “the issues”, I like having slaves, I will always have slaves.”

                      Imagine this 150 years ago.

                      “I couldn’t give a shit about “the issues”, I like only men having the vote, I will always vote for just men to have the vote.”

                      Meat eating is one ofour society’s big blind spots.
                      In years to come, people will wonder how we tortured and killed 10s of billions of animals a year.

                      In the meantime, boofheads like James and a surprising number of other standardistas seem unwilling to look at the evidence in front of their eyes.

                • James …
                  17 December 2017 at 9:03 pm

                  You seem a little uppity on this subject. Perhaps you need more iron in your diet ?

                  • Ed …
                    17 December 2017 at 9:35 pm

                    Maybe you need to do some research on the subject.

                    I would pose the same challenge to you I did to BM.

                    • James …
                      18 December 2017 at 7:33 am

                      I couldn’t give a hoot about it to be honest. I like to bbq. I like eating meat.

                      And absolutely don’t care about the (perceived by those crazy vegans) impacts.

                  • cleangreen …
                    17 December 2017 at 10:55 pm

                    James are you just ‘taking the mickey again’.

                    Did you go to a concert or something?

                    You are acting strange.

        • cleangreen 1.7.1.3
          17 December 2017 at 7:40 pm

          hey james did you go to a concert last night?

          We see you are still living in your fantasy world still eh.

          Thats cool, as you fit well inside planet Key/&co.

          • James 1.7.1.3.1
            17 December 2017 at 8:58 pm

            Nope no concert for me – not my style of mucis.

            Says a lot about you that you think a bbq with friends and family is a fantasy world. All I can say is that life for you must be pretty grim.

            • cleangreen 1.7.1.3.1.1
              17 December 2017 at 11:01 pm

              No you are twisting words again james,

              I didnt ‘infer a barbeque was a fantasy, rather it was the words you coutched arouund your glee at having all happy people around you.

              If you was so happy in life why do you spend hours comming here to make all those ‘snide’ remarks all the time?

              If thats what ‘rocks your boat’ then that is your ‘fantasy’, – do you get that?

              • James …
                18 December 2017 at 7:36 am

                It’s nice to have happy friends and family around. I feel sorry for you if it’s something you don’t experience.

                It’s not glee – it’s something we do most weekends (at out place or friends) – it’s normal life seeing people.

        • Ed 1.7.1.4
          17 December 2017 at 8:24 pm

          Wallow in your ignorance

        • OnceWasTim 1.7.1.5
          17 December 2017 at 9:44 pm

          It’s not the bbq @James – it’s you.
          WE (i.e. I I I and my my my overwhelming number of friends that fawn all over me, and my family possessions – the kuds and the grandkuds) had a bbq today. We just didn’t wank ourselves silly over it. But then you’re probably considerably richer than me.

          • Ed 1.7.1.5.1
            17 December 2017 at 9:46 pm

            James also brags after All Black victories, as if he had a part in it.

            • James 1.7.1.5.1.1
              18 December 2017 at 7:38 am

              As someone who goes to a lot of their games to cheer them on – I think I do.

              Positive cheering etc.

          • James 1.7.1.5.2
            18 December 2017 at 7:31 am

            Honestly it’s not that bigger deal having friends and family over for a gathering. It didn’t even have to cost $ (everyone can bring a dish to share).

            It’s summer – it’s fun and you should try it. My help you with the “oh poor me” attitude.

  2. Carolyn_Nth 2
    17 December 2017 at 7:47 am

    RNZ reports on a report from the Child Poverty Action Group.

    It says what many of us already knew, but in detail – our welfare system is failing beneficiaries, and ultimately we-the-society. And there has been an incremental tightening of the screws since 2008 that has been devastating.

    The welfare state has been undermined so much that it was failing families or individuals that fell on hard times, said Ms St John.

    “We’ve had a whole raft of policy changes during those nine years and cumulatively it’s been a bit like a frog in a beaker of warming water and something perhaps people haven’t been aware of, or not aware of the whole picture.”

    She hoped the new government would “urgently” review the welfare system.

    “The magnitude of the task ahead to stitch up the safety net after such an onslaught must not be underestimated.”

    The full report recaps changes since the 1980s.

    While these changes were moderated under Prime Minister Lange, they paved the way for more neoliberal reforms to come.

    The Clark government brought in measures that alleviated things for some, but,

    Thus while WFF reduced child poverty rates overall, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) acknowledged that the lack of access to this tax credit meant WFF did not reduce poverty rates in the poorest families:

    So now we need government action that does much more than make some incrementally small changes, or that merely tinkers at the edges.

    • AB 2.1
      17 December 2017 at 8:21 am

      But James (like all those other James’s throughout the country) is having pork belly on the barbecue, so all is right with the world.

    • Kay 2.2
      17 December 2017 at 9:05 am

      You beat me to the post Carolyn. Very sobering and sickening reading isn’t it?
      But the CPAG report excellently explains how we got to where we are. Mandatory reading.

      It was the lead story on RNZ radio @ 7-8am. Funnily enough I can’t see any mention of said report on Stuff or Herald…

    • DH 2.3
      17 December 2017 at 9:12 am

      Gotta love the wording. ‘starting’ to unravel. There’s only a few stitches to go.

      I can’t see this Govt achieving much. A big boost in housing should at least bring rents down but that will take years and by then the Govt will most probably have run out of money.

      • cleangreen 2.3.1
        17 December 2017 at 9:50 am

        DH,

        Simple answer is for ‘them’ (Labour coalition) to just increase taxes on the rich as National did for nine years while taxing the poor and using a slow “Austerity” regime.

        Is that o/k for labour to pay back the poor and repeat what national did to bankroll the rich?

        We see this as ‘progressive’.

        • DH 2.3.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 10:09 am

          It needs more than that cleangreen. The most precious possession that was stolen from many people by successive Governments was a future. You can throw as much cash at people as you want, it won’t solve anything until you give them back a good reason to get out of bed in the morning.

          • cleangreen 2.3.1.1.1
            17 December 2017 at 11:28 am

            DH, yes we need ‘progressive policies. We hope the working tax forum will come up with some policies around restarting our own re-investment in NZ.

            That is why we are so puzzled as to why the right wing media was down so hard on Winston as his policies were the very best, if you did foollow the election interviews he had with Corrin Dann and others he laid out the oplans there which to us seemed so “common sense” in restoring our power to take NZ back as we had during the 50’s and 60’s.

            Co-operatives are the future for smaller countries like ours not selling all our assets. Selling our assets just bleeds our country dry again as the capital in profits just goes off shore and we wind up with less power and control then slowly we will come to a halt.

            Increasing the Superfund contibution is a good move as my son while 11yrs in Germany contibuted to their massive wealthfund that is now buying up choice NZ farmland so we need to fund our base to re-invest in NZ bussiness not the offshore companys and countries.

            National dropped the ball here and Winston wants to resart us buying into our country again and sharing in it not selling it off.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.3.2
        17 December 2017 at 11:51 am

        A government, being the issuer of the currency, can’t actually run out of money.

        • cleangreen 2.3.2.1
          17 December 2017 at 3:38 pm

          True that is Draco,

          We think labour needs to look back to it’s founding PM Michael Joseph Savage to see how he saved our country in 1937 and grow some balls now also eh?

          https://anjohnstonescommunity.wordpress.com/tag/michael-joseph-savage/

          Reform Within Capitalism

          Savage’s government of reform shaped the economic and social direction of New Zealand for decades to come creating in the process not only one of the world’s wealthiest nations, but also one of the fairest. 40 years after Savage’s historic victory, NZ had the distinction of having the most equitable distribution of wealth in the world.

          Despite their differences Lee and Savage helped transform the nature of the society they had inherited. Dispensing with the social and economic traditions inherited from Britain, they and their contemporaries set NZ on a new course of economic self-determination that made humanitarian concerns the central factor of economic policy and the process redefining the nature of nationhood and the purpose of society.

  3. Philg 3
    17 December 2017 at 7:50 am

    Yes James
    Sunday is a time for reflection on family, sharing and caring. James … James…

    • cleangreen 3.1
      17 December 2017 at 9:04 am

      James is just taking the piss as usual.

      Igore him he is irrelevant.

      Try this ‘real’ (good news article) it is good for the “real true soul” not james poisonous tortured soul.

      Subject: NZ privacy commissioner fights against US order to release NZ citizens bank records to US government. 17-12-17.

      Today 17th December 2017.
      NZ Privacy Commissioner John Edwards fights back today against US Government order to release NZ Citizens bank records to US Government.

      In a recent US Government order to an Irish bank request to release records of NZ citizen to the US Government again hits a road block as NZ Privacy Commissioner rejects this second request, as he ruled this earlier this year in another ruling last April 2017; http://insitemagazine.co.nz/2017/04/06/privacy-commissioner-rejects-plans-to-collect-clients-data/

      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/14/microsoft-emails-court-ruling-us-government

      17/12/17
      Radio NZ today reports this while in conversation with NZ Privacy Commissioner John Edwards at 7.15 am this morning 17/12/17 with Wallace Chapman.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday

      (audio not yet added. (wait 3 hours) from 9am.

      Quote;

      John Edwards: taking a stand for privacy in the US Supreme Court

      A landmark US Supreme Court case against a US citizen accused of drug trafficking has caught the eye of New Zealand’ privacy commissioner, and prompted him to take a stand against the United States. The citizen has private data stored in an Irish data centre owned by Microsoft, and rather than ask Ireland to voluntarily hand over the information , the US wants to seize it under US search warrant laws.
      US government lawyers made a request in the US Court of Appeal, were knocked back, and they’ve now appealed that decision to the Supreme Court.
      The New Zealand privacy commissioner, John Edwards is worried about the global implications of such a case, and he’s made a voluntary submission on to the US Supreme Court.

  4. Barfly 4
    17 December 2017 at 9:07 am

    I understand the government is rolling out Nationals previously announced “increase” to the accommodation supplement I ask that people who receive this go to the accommodation supplement calculator

    https://www.workingforfamilies.govt.nz/calculator/filter.jsp

    It seems my increase is actually a $1 cut lol….I suspect the “increase” is at the rent threshold maximum so as to reduce the Temporary Emergency Assistance Payments.

    Can others please check to see how the change affects them – I doubt I am unique in having a reduction.

    • cleangreen 4.1
      17 December 2017 at 9:17 am

      Hi Barfly,

      Did the St Johns wort work?
      Recall this?
      cleangreen: Comment:Daily Review 21/09/2017
      Date published: 7:49 pm, September 21st, 2017
      … herb St Johns wart barfly its cheaply available at most …

    • Kay 4.2
      17 December 2017 at 12:47 pm

      Barfly- it seems I’ll be a whole $5/week better off with AC, the catch being that TAS will be decreased, surprise surprise, and while I don’t yet have the numbers from years of experience this act of kindness is going to leave loads of us worse off.

  5. Sanctuary 5
    17 December 2017 at 9:13 am

    You gotta love the shamelessness of the media. having relentlessly slagged Labour since the election and engaging with the opposition in a petulant exercise in denial and arrogance Bazza’s squeeze is now professing amazement that in her opinion the honeymoon is over for Labour.

    • cleangreen 5.1
      17 December 2017 at 9:31 am

      True that is sanctuary,

      We need to kick arse and get the ‘new promised public media chanel’ up and running with ‘real investigative journalists’ digging for the ‘real other side aof the story.’

      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/11/67225/clare-curran-is-planning-a-few-shake-ups

      Not relying on this broken corrupted so call media.

      To date as of yesterday 17/12/17 we still have no RNZ reporter to cover HB/Gisborne, so the new Broadcasting Minister Claire Curran has now recieved a letter of complaint from us to provide us with a reporter!!!!!!!

      • Sanctuary 5.1.1
        17 December 2017 at 10:01 am

        Unfortunately, I perceive Curran is an inept and incompetent politician who owes her lofty post to gender politics rather than talent, and whose first days as minister have done nothing to change that perception.

        Still, early days yet so I live in hope.

        • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 11:11 am

          I’m hoping she’s smart enough to take the advice of the likes of Peter Thompson and CBB – even though I maintain their hopes are/haven’t been ambitious enough.
          (There’s no reason for example that alongside RNZ Nat and Concert, we couldn’t have a youth network – or perhaps The Wireless on a radio network, and also a Kids TV)

      • millsy 5.1.2
        17 December 2017 at 9:17 pm

        This goes back to the sale of RNZ’s commercial stations back in 1996. RNZ lost a lot of infrastructure and staffing right there and then.

  6. eco maori 6
    17 December 2017 at 9:30 am

    I went to church every Sunday when my Mama was a live there is a lot of good thing that came from going to church we had christening it teaches our mokos to be good people but I don’t no which one is right as there are so many we are angerclian.

    You think that ECO would not here from his 2 eldest granddaughters that you have been to there school and traumatising my mokos asking inappropriate questions. They are 10 7 years old you_________ well looks like eco is going to sue the education department to Ana to kai. I told YOU DON’T UNDERESTIMATE ME.

    What a coincidence after my post about my son in law in Auckland having his case chucked out and they still made him do home detention and PD on Sundays WTF.
    ON the Tuesday they told him he had the bracelet on for 3 weeks to long and wiped his PD and the farcical part is all of a sudden they can’t find his probation officer. No you see people they will try and use all the states departments to hammer the poor people into submission they let there officers abuse there power an just cover it up this is the sort of culture all OUR state departments display.
    And they say they don’t no why there are so many Maori in jail Maori live life thinking the the state is going to treat US fairly and humanely YEA RIGHT. And this is why I’m calling for those old farts who run our state department to retire so there dum ass culture will be retired with them so the culture will change to a accountable reliable humane state services YES these people are payed to serve US not there EGOS and the wealth Yes the wealth get good service or the state will get there ass sued off
    the state knows this and they provide a good service to the wealthy because of this fact. I will advercate for the right off the vulnerable with this Mana they are giving me look at Stuff website
    The article Under fire and on the herald website there is a article about some ladies from the defence forces who went to court to get there name suppression lifted to help hilight there case against Our defence forces on covering up of sex violation against 3 separate Lady’s there will be many more so Many thanks to these ladies for standing up to these old farts and making sure there stories are heard loud and clear. I get pissed of at all the articles about crime beening reported buy MSM crime is
    A minamil part of OUR society at a guess 3 persent and all you _________ see in MSM is crime is this phenomenon just fate NO ITS NOT the police have a major influence on our MSM so they push for crime articles to be published to justify there calls for more staff and to justify there behaviour and to paint a farcical picture of a perfect justice system YEA RIGHT us poor are just numbers to OUR state services and its the wealth that get Impunity. Ana to kai

    • cleangreen 6.1
      17 December 2017 at 10:03 am

      True words Eco Maori,

      It is hard to be full of cheer when the media is contsantly running down the new Government, and things appear not to be changing yet as the new government has promised “real change” in their pre-election speeches. “Lets do this”

      But we need to hold on to hope, – and perhaps give them some months ahead in time to make those promised changes they pledged to us in countless emails sent us all and press releases.

      Our whanau wishes your whanau a gentle caring peaceful xmas and new year, as we all join together to make all our lives better for our collective future.

      Nga mihi na.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        17 December 2017 at 1:56 pm

        Went to the Sally Army carol service this morning and was impressed by the young people there and mix of ethnicities and ages.

        So if you want to help bolster the workings for good in NZ I suggest you attend church occasionally that works with the community, (don’t have to be dedicated faithful) and encourage the people who are trying to maintain some love and care for each other in the community.

        We need to switch from thinking about gold for ourselves to God and the Jesus messages which were generally reported as caring and positive. We can find some spare gold to give to those working with ordinary people who are not getting much help because they haven’t some emotionally appealing problem, just the same old trying-to-find their place, make sense of the world, life problem.

  7. Morrissey 7
    17 December 2017 at 10:33 am

    “One does have to ask: SHOULD they get support to keep farming here?”
    Country Life, RNZ National, Friday 15 December 2017

    In the wake of years of revelations of the environmental damage inflicted by out of control farming, New Zealanders are now inflicted with millions of dollars worth of farming industry propaganda, designed to persuade us that farmers work harder than anyone else, get up earlier than anyone else, and that they actually care for the environment, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Television commercial breaks regularly feature Richie “Offside” McCaw’s Fonterra-paid elegies to early rising, and actual programs such as Country Calendar are often nothing more than P.R. exercises for Big (read “Dirty”) Dairying.

    RNZ National’s Country Life program, which is now twenty years old, is well produced and always interesting. It plays on Friday evenings, and is repeated on Saturday mornings. It’s covered all kinds of farming operations and related activities, from beekeeping, to cheese-making, to the growth of farmers’ markets. It also gives more than a fair amount of space to dairy farmers.

    On Friday’s edition of Country Life, Edgecumbe dairy farmers affected by the Rangitaiki River flooding in April talk about how they are coping. They are introduced sympathetically….

    SUSAN MURRAY: G’day, g’day, good to have you with us for the Country Life hour. I’m Susan Murray in Hamilton, and Duncan Smith’s in Wellington.

    DUNCAN SMITH: Hi there. Coming up in a moment we’ll hear which lucky areas had rain in the North Island, and in the South Island the rain that DID fall in Canterbury’s almost been too little too late, and most places are getting very CRISP.

    SUSAN MURRAY: We’re joining a traveling nun in Australia, smelling the roses near Christchurch, and meeting some farmers who are still having a VERY TOUGH TIME following the Eastern Bay of Plenty FLOODS back in April. We hear quite a bit about the Edgecumbe TOWN people, but NOT much about the poor farmers. So that soon.

    DUNCAN SMITH: Without further ado, let’s z-z-z-zip around the country. In Northland, it’s been HOT….

    One of the Edgecumbe farmers complains about being “pinged with fines” for effluent breaches in the past. Then he praises farmers for their “resilience”. However, this is not allowed to become a totally one-sided public relations exercise: at the end of this segment, the interviewer, Susan Murray, reminds the farmer of just why his land was flooded….

    FARMER: Yeah we just GRIND ON, and it doesn’t matter WHERE you’re living or WHERE you’re farming in New Zealand, ahhhhhmm, there’s positives and negatives to wherever. …. Yeah, and I think, ahhhhmmm, oh we’ve probably commented before, you’ve just got to break your issues down, ahhhhmmm, you know, don’t try and tackle the whole thing in one hit, break it down, and yeah it may have affected your life in a great way but, um, you know, there’s still a lot to be thankful for in New Zealand, um, you know. There’s lots of options out there, but, yeah, it’s a reason to get up in the morning I suppose, that’s farming, we all enjoy it.

    SUSAN MURRAY: And you’ll keep doing it on a flood plain! [chuckle]

    FARMER: Yeah, yeah. Have to.

    COUNTRY LIFE: Ha ha ha ha ha!

    FARMER: [grimly, awkwardly] Heh, heh, heh, heh!

    A little later there is a very uncomfortable moment, after Farmer No. 1 has a brain fade and accidentally speaks the truth….

    COUNTRY LIFE: And do you feel a little bit abandoned, that you’ve sort of had, I think someone said, B-all help?

    FARMER No. 1: Yep. I, I, I think a lot of farmers, ahhh, were disappointed at how much, ah how LITTLE help we received. But, you know, we’re a resilient lot and we just, ah, roll up our sleeves and get stuck in, but ahhhm, you know, Edgecumbe, they’ve got a LOT of help, but the water went THROUGH the town and out on to the farms, and um, you know, we’ve, the farmers have had to deal with that and it’s sort of been in the background and has had very little coverage really.

    FARMER No. 2: It’s all part of the joys and challenge of farming though! It’s—ha ha!—you know—-

    FARMER No. 1: Well you’re battling Mother Nature a little bit here. I mean, it was all swamp that was drained. Mother Nature wants to take it back one day probably but we’ll keep fighting!

    ….Stunned silence…

    COUNTRY LIFE: Hearing THAT, one does have to ask: SHOULD they get support to keep farming here?

    FARMER No. 1: [scrambling] Ahhhhmmm, this is, you know, very productive dairy land. We must produce a LOT for the region, not to mention, you know, the NATIONAL economy, so um, as far as cost-benefit goes, I would say the government would be making a GOOD INVESTMENT putting money into the scheme….
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/countrylife

    • Ed 7.1
      17 December 2017 at 10:39 am

      McCaw.
      What a sell out.

      • Grey Area 7.1.1
        17 December 2017 at 1:45 pm

        Can you sell out if you’ve never bought in, Ed?

        Humble Richie McCaw who didn’t want to be a sir but was quite happy to take our highest honour.

        It should have gone like this:

        Government figure (probably FJK): “Richie we’d like to offer you a knighthood like Meads, Whineray, Lochore etc.”

        Richie: “I’m not comfortable becoming Sir Richie.”

        Government figure: “Okay, that’s cool. Enjoy your retirement”.

      • cleangreen 7.1.2
        17 December 2017 at 3:48 pm

        Agreed there. Ed,

        Mc Crawl was always buddying up to the greasy Johnny key wasn’t he.

        “A all black Leopard never changes spots.”

    • Ed 7.2
      17 December 2017 at 10:45 am

      A rebuttal to McCaw.

      ‘Fonterra are passionate abut the land.’

      • Morrissey 7.2.1
        17 December 2017 at 10:51 am

        To quote Leighton Smith, Larry Williams and Mike Hosking: “Who the F**K is Mike Joy?”

        JOHN KEY: Well that might be Mike Joy’s view, but I don’t share that view.

        STEPHEN SACKUR: But he is very well qualified, isn’t he? He’s looked, for example, at the number of species threatened with extinction in New Zealand, he’s looked at the fact that half your lakes, 90% of your lowland rivers, are now classed as polluted.

        KEY: Look, I’d hate to get into a flaming row with one of our academics, but he’s offering his view. I think any person that goes down to New Zealand …

        SACKUR: Yeah but he’s a scientist, it’s based on research, it’s not an opinion he’s plucked from the air.

        KEY: He’s one academic, and like lawyers, I can provide you with another one that will give you a counterview. Anybody who goes down to New Zealand and looks at our environmental credentials, and looks at New Zealand, then I think for the most part, in comparison with the rest of the world, we are 100% pure – in other words, our air quality is very high, our water quality is very high.

        http://www.noted.co.nz/archive/listener-nz-2011/john-keys-unhappy-week-at-the-bbc/

    • Ed 7.3
      17 December 2017 at 10:46 am

      A rebuttal to McCaw

      Can I Really Get Enough Calcium Eating Just Plants?

      ‘Like iron, magnesium, and copper, calcium is a mineral. It is found in the soil, where it is absorbed into the roots of plants. Animals get their calcium by consuming these calcium-rich plants. So even though we are all conditioned to believe that calcium comes from milk and dairy products, the real source of calcium richness is the earth. No wonder that a whole-food, plant-based diet has plenty of calcium.

      A varied diet of starches, vegetables, and fruits (without dairy) has sufficient calcium to meet our needs. If you eat a relatively low-calcium diet, your body will adjust. Studies show that when fed a relatively low-calcium diet (415 mg/day), our intestines become more efficient at absorbing calcium, and our kidneys conserve it better. Equally, when overfed with calcium (1,740 mg/day) our bodies adjust as well: our intestines block the calcium absorption, while our kidneys eliminate more. This is an example of how our bodies protect us: if not eliminated, the excess calcium would get deposited in our soft tissues (heart, kidneys, muscles, and skin), making us vulnerable to illness and even death … a true testament to how smart our bodies really are!’

      https://www.forksoverknives.com/milk-myth-why-you-dont-need-dairy-for-calcium/#gs.9gSmh_c

      • greywarshark 7.3.1
        17 December 2017 at 2:00 pm

        Ed
        That is mind shattering for most of us in the extent of the points it makes. Thanks.

        • Ed 7.3.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 2:56 pm

          The 22 Best Vegan Documentaries to Inspire You

          https://nutriciously.com/best-vegan-documentaries/#tab-con-30

          Here is one that changed my viewpoint.

          • James 7.3.1.1.1
            18 December 2017 at 7:43 am

            Nah it’s all propaganda put out by the fruit department of new world.

            • Ed 7.3.1.1.1.1
              18 December 2017 at 8:22 am

              Of course you haven’t bothered to research the topic.
              Smart arsed comments is about all you are up to.

              • Robert Guyton …
                18 December 2017 at 8:27 am

                Go easy on James, Ed, he’s suffering Meat-eaters Headache. A blueberry smoothy and a plate of kiwifruit slices would cure it, but he’ll not deign to eat anything from the fruit department. His bowels must be knots of gristle and undigested sausage skin 🙂

                • cleangreen …
                  18 December 2017 at 7:15 pm

                  Ha ha Robert he is a simple soul that represents “the hollow men”

                  He has that trait eh?

                  Anyway he doesnt answer the question we asked before which was on 1.7.1.3.1.1
                  “If you was so happy in life why do you spend hours comming here to make all those ‘snide’ remarks all the time?

                  If thats what ‘rocks your boat’ then that is your ‘fantasy’, – do you get that?”

                  He didn’t anwer that and we wonder why not?

  8. Jenny Kirk 8
    17 December 2017 at 10:40 am

    Hi Robert Guyton – on a different tangent – last year some time I mentioned trying to make a small forest garden with fruit trees, and asked you how you dealt with kikuyu (which you didn’t know). Well – I think I’ve found the answer via your forest garden methods. I mulched quite an area around the trees, put in the comfrey, lavendar, marigold etc, threw on a pile of palm frond chippings, and left it. Election campaigning took up all the rest of my time for almost the whole year, and with that over, I looked at a pile of weeds including kikuyu just about smothering my little trees. BUT …. it was incredibly easy to pull them out, and underneath the trees were flowering (and now fruiting).
    So that’s what you do with kikuyu – mulch it heavily, and then pull it out easily !

    • Robert Guyton 8.1
      17 December 2017 at 2:35 pm

      That’s really good to hear, Jenny and thanks for letting me know of your success. I expect most if not all “pest plant” challenges are solvable by means such as you describe – provided there’s a human/gardener on hand to administer and maintain the solution. Congratulations on your fruit crops and enjoy your coming harvest!

  9. Philip Ferguson 9
    17 December 2017 at 11:42 am

    At some point in the next 12 months there is supposed to be a referendum in Kanaky/New Caledonia on self-determination.

    Whether the referendum will go ahead or not actually remains a bit of an open question.

    In either case, the French seem determined to hold on to their island colonies/possessions in the Pacific and Caribbean.

    Because of the smallness of indigenous populations in Kanaky/New Caledonia and ‘French Polynesia’, successive French governments have been able to send out enough settlers to ensure an ongoing majority in favour of continuing French rule.

    It’s important that progressive-minded people in NZ support the populations seeking independence and emancipation.

    Freedom for kanaky/New Caledonia:
    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/freedom-for-kanaky-new-caledonia/

    • JanM 9.1
      17 December 2017 at 2:49 pm

      As far as I could make out when I went there a few years ago, it’s one of the retirement options for wealthy French citizens. They live like kings amongst the poverty of the locals

  10. Morrissey 10
    17 December 2017 at 12:02 pm

    “Soon, even the notion that Israel is democratic for Jews will be gone.”
    Gideon Levy at Mt Eden War Memorial Hall, Dominion Road
    Sunday 3 December 2017, 3 p.m. (Part 2 of 2)

    Questions from the floor.

    Question No. 1: The international campaign for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel: is it working? 
    GIDEON LEVY: Boycott is a legitimate strategy. Israel is forever pressing countries to boycott Iran and Hamas. People boycott butchers, and refuse to buy goods made in sweatshops. No one can claim that boycott is wrong. Many people won’t buy stolen goods—and anything made in the Occupied Territories is a stolen product. Boycott and sanction were very effective strategies against the South African apartheid state. The aggression towards BDS by the Jewish establishment convinces me that it’s the right tool. Psychologically, it’s having an increasing impact. There have been bills to criminalize BDS in the United States and Europe. This is unacceptable. It shows how weak the Israeli argument is if they have to prosecute people of conscience who want to boycott Israel. By the way, I am violating Israeli law right now—it’s going to be seven years’ jail for expressing support for BDS. We need to make Israel, and every Israeli, accountable. 

    Question No. 2: Are you tired and defeated in your attitude to the two-state solution?
    GIDEON LEVY: You need to prove that the two-state solution is viable, and show how to evacuate the 700,000 settlers. Soon that number will be one million. Whenever I mention President Trump, people start to laugh—(LAUGHTER). Trump said, “I don’t mind whether it’s one state or two states.” I don’t think he knew what he was talking about.

    Question No. 3: New Zealand is in the throes of privatization brought about by social engineering. The incarceration rate in New Zealand—-
    (At this point the questioner was cut off, for allegedly being off topic. I think Gideon was going to answer him, but the organisers insisted on moving things along to the next question.)

    Question No. 4: How can we learn from the Maori?
    GIDEON LEVY: I visited South Africa three times, and tremendous things happened there. This inspires me: the one state solution can be implemented. If New Zealanders can live together, we can live together with the Palestinians. —(APPLAUSE)— There will still be struggles about rights, et cetera, but it can be done.

    Question No. 5: Gideon, you’ve been called “the most hated man in Israel.” Do you suffer from Shin Bet surveillance, in the way that Donald Woods was spied on in South Africa?
    GIDEON LEVY: It was the Independent that called me the most hated man in Israel. However, I am not the story. Yes, there have been some physical attacks. But we are still a liberal democracy for Jewish citizens. I was arrested once for entering the West Bank. My car was shot once, and we counted nine bullet marks. It was an armor-plated car, however. The Israeli regime is aiming now at NGOs and the Supreme Court. Their next target will be the media.

    Question No. 6: What can you tell us about the Knesset bill to ban the police filing corruption charges against any government officials?
    GIDEON LEVY: There are many cracks in Israel’s democracy, in particular that bill. There are many anti-democratic bills in the Israeli parliament now. Soon, even the notion that Israel is democratic for Jews will be gone. However, it still survives for the moment, and I enjoy full freedom to speak and write.

    Question No. 7: What are the common or distinctive values in the Jewish and Palestinian cultures?
    GIDEON LEVY: There is no “Jewish morality”, there are universal values. Very clearly, most of us are secular. I don’t know what it means to follow Jewish values. I do know what it means to follow ethics and morality, which are universal.  

    Question No. 8: Israel, like New Zealand, is a settler state. The natives have been stripped of possession of the land. Maori attitudes to land are very different to english values. How can we have equal rights?
    GIDEON LEVY: In New Zealand you discuss the past. In Israel, bringing up the past is tantamount to treason. The nakba was a war crime; I could live at peace with it if it had stopped there. But it never stopped. The same attitudes, the same tools, have continued. We should expect Israel to admit, and compensate, the crimes of 1948. But we don’t let it be discussed. We don’t let the Palestinians put up a sign for one of the more than four hundred villages destroyed. The first step is to ADMIT the crime of 1948.

    Question No. 9: You say you do what you do because you care about Israel. Should we change the name of Israel? What about the right of return of the expelled Palestinians?
    GIDEON LEVY: I care about Israel having a different regime from the present one, which is not a democracy. Let’s be quite clear about this: I stand for a tiny minority in Israel. The right of return? Sure. A democratic country would let those people in. No right of return is a racist law.

    Question No. 10: Who are the main enemies of Israel?
    GIDEON LEVY: Those who support the occupation, who keep it strong, and who pay for it. Of course I’m talking about the United States here. The U.S. could stop this masquerade in a matter of months. The U.S. routinely condemns the illegal settlements and scolds Israel, but it does nothing. The European Union: nothing but lip service. India, Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E.—they all buy Israeli weapons.

    Question No. 11: What about the liberal opposition in Israel?
    GIDEON LEVY: Nothing is more misleading than the belief that Netanyahu is the only problem. Labour is the founding father of the settlements. I would rather have the right wingers in power, because at least they are honest. If Labour gets into power, it will meet with Abbas. The world will applaud. Negotiations in special committees will go on for one and a half years. The negotiations will go nowhere. Like Oslo. Everyone will support Israel—“what a peaceful state!” At least with Netanyahu, what you see is what you get.

    Question No. 12: Are you optimistic about the peace and justice movements in Israel?
    GIDEON LEVY: Yes, there are indeed groups like Breaking the Silence, B’tselem, the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, and Physicians for Human Rights. But they face a fatal problem: delegitimization by the government and the media. The government is fighting Breaking the Silence like hell. When it began, I thought Breaking the Silence would be a game-changer. These were Israeli soldiers witnessing and testifying about what they had done in the Occupied Territories and Gaza. There were more than one thousand testimonies. I thought that Israeli society would not be able to continue to deny. But immediately the political establishment and the media collaborated to crush them. Their influence and credibility in Israel is zero. They have been made into criminals in public opinion. The machinery of the Israeli state crushed them. Most young Israelis are much more nationalistic and right wing than their parents. And social media has made the most extreme racism socially acceptable.

    Question No. 13: What about the “Christian Zionists”?
    GIDEON LEVY: In terms of brainwashing and ignorance they are even worse. They turn very easily into anti-Semites. Right now they support Israel blindly and automatically; they are the biggest enemies of Israel.

    ————-

    This melancholy yet inspirational and uplifting question time finished with a representative from the Unite union delivering the parting words of thanks to Gideon, and reminding all present of the need to press our new Labour government to support the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign. An Irishmen, he recounted how in 1880, County Mayo residents refused to cooperate in any way with the local agent of the absentee Lord Erne. They withdrew their labour completely and refused to talk to him or engage with him in any way, resulting in his leaving Ireland in December 1880. The agent’s name: Captain Charles Boycott.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16-12-2017/#comment-1426789

  11. Ed 11
    17 December 2017 at 12:09 pm

    Another day, another good policy announced by this coalition government.

    ‘Rumble strips, safety barriers coming for 30 targeted dangerous rural roads.’

    ‘Thirty dangerous rural roads around the country will get rumble strips, safety barriers and more safety signs as the Government steps in to contain a road toll that is the highest since 2010.
    This morning Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced the Boost Safety programme – $22.5 million to improve the safety of hotspots on rural highways across Northland, Taranaki, Manawatu-Whanganui, Canterbury, Otago and Southland.
    The road toll this year to December 15 was 359 deaths – the most since 2010, including a tragic accident in October near Taupo that killed four people and shook a community.
    The announcement follows a crisis meeting Genter called last month with transport officials and police to discuss ways to improve road safety, including shifting existing funds away from State Highways.
    The $22.5m has been reallocated from the State Highways budget and will include rumble strips, signage, safety barriers, and targeted speed limit changes on 30 hotspots that are flagged as a real risk of death and serious injuries.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11961338

    • OnceWasTim 11.1
      17 December 2017 at 2:02 pm

      Hopefully there’ll be a few more directional arrows painted on the roads too.
      If you’ve ever been confronted by an oncoming vehicle on the wrong side of the road, you’ll know what I mean.

      • OnceWasTim 11.1.1
        17 December 2017 at 3:25 pm

        A bit of paint is actually a very cheap option, especially alongside a rumble strip – even if they’re busy not looking in a rear vision mirror, rather at a cell phone buried in their lap waiting for a reply to their previous txt.

        • cleangreen 11.1.1.1
          17 December 2017 at 3:56 pm

          Yes Once was tim,

          There should aslo be maore signs telling trucks not to travel fasterthan 90 kms on our windy narrow highway 2 all the way down the east coast as trucks are often clocked at over 100kms and tailgate other vehicles very often now since the rail carries no freight or less freight .

          So signs and police presence on our narrow winding regional roads may help here as the trucks are breaking all the rules now.

  13. greywarshark 13
    17 December 2017 at 2:05 pm

    Have a read of one of our stalwarts returned home.
    http://www.bryangould.com/a-merry-pohutukawa-christmas/

  14. joe90 14
    17 December 2017 at 2:47 pm

    Yet another study showing that the maga morans were motivated by racial anxiety.

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/15/16781222/trump-racism-economic-anxiety-study

  15. adam 15
    17 December 2017 at 2:54 pm

    Who would have thought so many major stories just stayed out of/or were a very low profile in the press.

    25 to be exact – Thank you Project censored.

    http://projectcensored.org/category/the-top-25-censored-stories-of-2016-2017/

  16. joe90 16
    17 December 2017 at 3:28 pm

    An xtian loon who makes his living dispatching killers for hire around the globe is implicated in ilicit arms trading and extrajudicial executions.

    Who woulda thunk it?
    /

    The two declarations are each five pages long and contain a series of devastating allegations concerning Erik Prince and his network of companies, which now operate under the banner of Xe Services LLC. Among those leveled by Doe #2 is that Prince “views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe”:

    To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades.

    Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince’s executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to “lay Hajiis out on cardboard.” Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince’s employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as “ragheads” or “hajiis.”

    https://www.thenation.com/article/blackwater-founder-implicated-murder/

  17. greywarshark 17
    17 December 2017 at 3:29 pm

    Gosh what about not pecking each other to the stage where we need bandages.
    STFU about meat eating and vegetarianism. There are emotional and practical reasons involved in thinking and stances on each side of this complex issue on which we are all benighted.

    Let’s have Christmas without these waspish attacks. Now wasps are a problem, turn away I implore you, and look at what can be done to kill and limit wasps.

  18. Ad 18
    17 December 2017 at 7:12 pm

    Omar El Akkad’s “American War”

    This is a dystopian novel, which interprets the American South by way of the Middle East, challenging Americans to imagine what it might be like to die for, but also kill, their fellow citizens.

    The Second Civil War begins in 2074. Climate change has changed the continent, submerging the banks of Louisiana and the near entirety of Florida, save for an island enclave or two, one of which eventually houses the notorious Sugarloaf Detention Facility for Northern prisoners of war.

    In the early 2070s, the federal government, by then based in Columbus, moved to outlaw fossil fuels. Southerners resented this and other impositions from the richer, prosperous Northern states. Fervor for secession began to build. The nature of Southern “culture” was rich, but also somewhat vague and constructed, like all cultural identities are. It was enough, though, to moor a movement that would lead to the deaths of millions. A Southern suicide bomber assassinated the president in 2073, plunging the country into violence.

    https://www.amazon.com/American-War-Omar-El-Akkad/dp/0451493583/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    Might be worth a few days over Christmas grinding through the Deep South with a climate change+Middle East wars lens.

    • greywarshark 18.1
      18 December 2017 at 9:16 am

      Sounds a distinct possibility after seeing 50 years plus of international and local politics and maneouvring of players.

  19. Morrissey 19
    17 December 2017 at 7:16 pm

    WARNING! An unwelcome blast from the past

    A particularly nasty and dishonest former colleague of Dr. Don Brash has had a go at Gideon Levy over on Kiwiblog. ….

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_17_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2101437

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_17_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2101481

  20. cleangreen 20
    17 December 2017 at 7:56 pm

    Morrisey it looks like ‘dirty politics 2’ has well and truly arrived on Kiwiblog eh!!!

    Trying to ‘slur’ Jacinda as having a mental issue,!!!

    These national clingons are thugs and are so low and out of moral character, they should be fined for character assassination.!!!!!!!!

  21. joe90 21
    17 December 2017 at 8:33 pm

    Remember, never ever piss off an Italian cyclist.

  22. eco maori 22
    17 December 2017 at 9:38 pm

    Many thanks to Sir Paul Macartney for backing Maori Culture Ka pai.
    I’m getting a TV set top box I know some people know what my search history is and what channel I’m watching I figure that out a while ago. Ya the mokos have gone home Im exsorsed and this is one of the reasons I say we owe Lady’s equality it’s a lot of effort to raise children I have a lot of other reasons for equality for Lady’s to all the girls in OUR family the future of our mother earth many more.

    See how low down these national people will go there actions never cease to amaze me well there dum ass attacks on Jacinda Mana will just fail to get any traction and will fall into tomorrow un heard of like all the bullshit they try and chuck at her. Kia kaha

  23. joe90 23
    17 December 2017 at 10:04 pm

    Oh dear.

    (1/11)

    Settle in, politikids. You’re going to enjoy this… I’ve read the full letter Trump transition team attorneys sent to legislators re: Mueller obtaining their emails. It has a delicious reveal. 1/https://t.co/gHZPrX3CVn— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) December 17, 2017

    https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/942221228483469312