Open Mike 18/01/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 18th, 2019 - 215 comments
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215 comments on “Open Mike 18/01/2019 ”

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  1. SaveNZ 1
    18 January 2019 at 7:23 am

    Another article about how another migrant family needs the government to change the laws to allow more NZ workers to give free health and super to their aged parents so they can get childcare….. While you might have sympathy for this womens plight, yet another example of immigration lawyers taking $12,000 off her and then a sob story to lobby the government. Maybe a give-a-little page is more appropriate and specialist care for her child?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1901/S00053/teacher-fears-life-on-benefit-in-immigration-wait.htm

    Also stirring from the National party which already found that migrants require much higher levels of health care than for locals of equivalent ages, and it is costing the country a fortune to fund all the social welfare which was a floodgate on that category as the parents were ‘dumped’ by their $90k+ earning relatives to go on social welfare, which is why they had to suspend the category.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/315435/migrants'-parents-cost-nz-'tens-of-millions‘

    So without paying taxes and with greater health needs, it is no wonder our hospital waiting lists are full and people who paid taxes can’t get their own parents into a much needed operation or medical care for years in our own hospitals. Our lists geared for the greatest need to go first, which like housing is an endless demand that can never be filled if you keep increasing the people who are more likely needing the high risk care.

    Grey power was also warning about the superannuation issue of aged parents decades ago about how the NZ pensions were now under threat because there are also no reciprocal pensions. There is also the costs of retirement and aged care at around $1000 p/w. There is a shortage of aged care workers but still they want to add more aged into NZ so we have even less care per person and more low waged workers to do the job needing welfare top up’s themselves!

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1110/S00572/grey-power-warns-of-impact-of-high-immigration-rates.htm

    • Rapunzel 1.1
      18 January 2019 at 8:17 am

      This a similar “plight” for many parents and not just in the way these circumstances are represented, for a start the mother in this case has managed with whatever support services NZ has until now – that is for six years. There is also no mention or assessment process that determines that the parents are still of an age that ensures they will actually cope with the child’s care and will continue to do so, as the child is in school all day it is only the hours after school that are the issue.
      It is to be assumed that for the first five years of his life the child was in subsidised daycare for all of that time and as he is in a class room now for much of the day and that is not in question which is what has changed? Why was there no request earlier for grand-parental support or have the parents now reached an age where it is more of convenience for all that they come to NZ at this point of time but not earlier
      On that I have another view as well, I know because I, willingly, travel to other city on a regular basis to look after my grandchild for as many days a month that are feasible. It is often the case that children, of not just single but all working parents, as they get older that the continual after school care thing wears very thin too – most would like to be going home.
      Particularly as they pass out of primary school we have found that there are actually few avenues for supervision for them and yet they can’t, legally and wisely, be left to their own devices until they are thirteen.
      So parents cope with this, lucky ones will have grandparents or similar close by to fill the gap, some have no such support. Recently I heard of consideration of childcare facilities being specifically built near older people’s residential “homes/villages” with benefits for both ages groups in mind.
      I have no doubt that such future planning will be deemed airy fairy wishful thinking, I don’t think it is, I see it as every bit of the same necessity to provide for older children as daycares are. Of course the issue is that it is not the money spinner of all day care as it is for only a few hours at the end of the day and harder to staff due to that.
      The money or any tax payer money saved by using commonsense as to why and how many “elderly” parents are allowed to come to NZ should be put into programmes that solve this problem with proper well paid staffing for this issue that would, or should, also solve this mother’s immediate problem and be a fairer solution for other working NZers.

      • SaveNZ 1.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 9:02 am

        Yes, many Kiwi’s face the same problems who do not have living grandparents or close/willing/able grandparents or have children with disabilities who need specialist care.

        Adding more ‘burden’ to NZ with more aged people who will require health care, aged care and so forth is not helping the NZ budget to help fund after school programmes and specialist care for children who need it and the next generation who are being thrown to the wolves with budget cuts or get the least help. (aka aged get free public transport, free un means tested super, electricity winter grant etc that no other group gets)

        Also presumably when people migrate they need to be aware of the issues of their aged parents BEFORE they migrate and how the aged parents themselves will cope in a country they don’t speak the language in and what they will do when they get lonely, which can be sponsoring more aged people into NZ through marriage.

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/376220/10k-11-days-and-one-failed-deportation

        • SaveNZ 1.1.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 9:16 am

          Government need to work out why so many Kiwi’s are in hardship in record numbers and spend the money solving that before they bring more and more people on low wages who will require welfare and compete for affordable housing with the rest of the population, hundreds of thousands of new people each year who require housing, or more high health & welfare needs into NZ!

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1901/S00059/hardship-grant-rise-related-to-housing-cost.htm

          • Rapunzel 1.1.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 10:07 am

            So that policy is sound and can be supported by the realities NZ has been faced with those figures should be in the next census so people can see the rationale that has to be applied to reduce the huge obligation that has been heaped on the country. NZ families must be the first priority.

    • marty mars 1.2
      18 January 2019 at 10:04 am

      Sympathy? Get real. You are pushing hate lines. Yep there are scum migrants. You’re a ladder pullerer imo under the guise of caring about people – you just care about YOUR people.

      Many types blame other groups for the ills of society and they target – Jewish people, Irish, people, coloured people, pasifika, Muslims, Māori, gay people and so on. Left thinkers fight this shit every day of the week because it diminishes people, all people, including the sad haters.

      • greywarshark 1.2.1
        18 January 2019 at 10:32 am

        marty mars
        You are labelling people unfairly as they seek to think through our dropping standards of living for a large minority? in NZ. We are getting too many immigrants of all sorts, and there needs to be a closing down of the bottle neck.

        Much of the influx comes from immigrants rorting their own people, and it suits our business people to let their own nationality manage their imported workers.
        NZ lack of decency and fairness. So draw limits. Have young people who want to work and travel within NZ formed into elite work groups, that travel around doing the physical work outside that they like, and getting good pay and conditions. We can do that, and stop behaving like shits destroying poor people’s lives. That will cut down on a lot of immigration and cost to the country.

        And then enabling foreigners to buy houses and land here so that we can get money flowing into the country, ostensibly for ‘investment’, but much of it is not used in a way that is of benefit to NZ, such as building on properties that provide vertical integration for their own country’s tourists.

        (And the money is needed as part of the impractical way neo-liberal economics mis-manages the economy in the interests of extracting advantage for big business. There is so much imported stuff flooding in that can be bought cheaply by volume, and sold dearly enough to enable seasonal remainders to be dumped in landfills and written off, still with a nice profit from the transaction. So bad for our interworld bank balance, much bought on personal credit borrowing, and huge bulk of clothing dumped, with a waste of earth resources, and added carbon, pollution problems to be borne by all.)

        This is all in the mix when we talk about immigrants. Everything is connected so you marty mars need to slow down on heaving half a brick. There is no way that a caring society can ignore practicalities and label certain problems as too sensitive to mention. Sensitive, vulnerable people bleed like all of us, and can’t be virtually ignored for fear of hurting them. (A card in the supermarket caught my eye, a bunch of children in similar play costumes was the picture. The caption – ‘You are a special, unique individual just like the rest of us’.) A bit of a paradox, this being an individual human and trying to cope with society’s conflicting ideas and definitions of you.

        • marty mars 1.2.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 10:46 am

          Don’t tell me what to do.

          I don’t buy into the – we have problems, we have migrants, therefore the migrants cause the problems. Or we can’t look after people, new people keep arriving, we will be able to look after less people.
          That is bullshit. We can do so much for our people but we don’t – why? Hint – it’ll be the same if zero new people.
          Deal to the REAL issues not the bullshit and we will improve everything.
          Oh Marty too tough…
          We need houses – BUILD THEM. We need more builders – TRAIN THEM and so on…

          • Drowsy M. Kram 1.2.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 12:41 pm

            Ideally NZ citizens would be trained in NZ (and overseas) to fill gaps in our workforce. The reality of our (still) relatively good education system and low-wage economy is that many of our ‘brightest and best’ end up overseas – sometimes NZ gets lucky when they decide to return to jobs in NZ.

            NZ definitely needs migrants (both skilled and unskilled) to fill gaps in our workforce. But the total number of ‘work migrants’ needs to be addressed. In the last seven years the annual number of migrants arriving in NZ on work visas has increased from 117,478 to 223,482. [Refugees are a separate issue – gradually increasing NZ’s per capita refugee quota to a level roughly in line with Australia is a desirable goal (again, IMO.)]

            Without migration NZ’s population would continue to increase, albeit slowly. Don’t understand is why some seem fearful of slow population growth.

            Tai ho (IMHO).

            Number of NZ arrivals on a work visa (rounded thousands):

            2008/09 119
            2009/10 117
            2010/11 118
            2011/12 129
            2012/13 136
            2013/14 151
            2014/15 167
            2015/16 184
            2016/17 210
            2017/18 223
            2018/19 is forecast to be higher again (116 for the half year).

            https://www.immigration.govt.nz/documents/statistics/statistics-arrivals-by-month

            • marty mars 1.2.1.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 12:47 pm

              Yes so tinkering to get the mix re work migration, to get it right. And your first paragraph sums it up – it is a structural issue not a migrant issue.

            • solkta 1.2.1.1.1.2
              18 January 2019 at 12:51 pm

              Without migration NZ’s population would continue to increase

              I’m not sure that is true as we have been sitting at replacement fertility rate or just below for four decades. The only thing that would increase our population without immigration would be people living longer, but life expectancy probably can’t keep increasing much longer.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                18 January 2019 at 1:10 pm

                I’m sure that it is true. Humans in NZ, and globally, are not under imminent threat of ‘decline’ due to low rates of reproduction. Rather, we are collectively at risk due to excessive reproduction.

                For a sustainable future, a replacement (or slightly below replacement) reproduction rate would be ideal, but we’ve missed that boat.

                “New Zealand’s population change is a result of natural increase (births minus deaths) and net migration (international migrant arrivals minus departures).”

                “However, natural increase continues to contribute around 30,000 people a year.”

                https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/migration-drives-high-population-growth

                In 2018 the natural population increase (births – deaths) was ~26,500.

                • solkta …
                  18 January 2019 at 1:27 pm

                  Yes there is a natural increase but that is caused not by the numbers being born but by the lack of deaths.

                  You can see the fertility rate at replacement here:
                  https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/birth-rate-down-to-record-low

                  and increasing life expectancy here:

                  https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/life-expectancy

                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  18 January 2019 at 3:52 pm

                  https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/births-and-deaths

                  The graph in this link indicates that annual natural population increase (births minus deaths) in NZ from 1952 to 2017 averaged roughly 32,800 per year (1980 (lowest) 23,865; 1961 (highest) 43,608).

                  NZ human reproduction rates (thanks for the links) at less than replacement are (IMO) hopeful signs, as they might herald a period of much-needed natural and gradual population decrease essential for the long-term maintenance of civilisation. Unfortunately, several generations of sub-replacement reproduction rates may be required to reverse population growth – do we have that long?

                  Based on current and predicted reproduction rates, and including predicted migration, the human population of NZ is projected to grow to 6,515,800 in 2068 (there’s lots of variation depending on the models used).

                  http://nzdotstat.stats.govt.nz/wbos/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLECODE7542

                  Don’t think the NZ environment will cope – it’s not coping now. Not all growth is good, but humankind is wedded to it.

              • SaveNZ …
                18 January 2019 at 4:52 pm

                Is there some point that humans have to keep increasing until they destroy all other flora and flora on the planet? Maybe we can have a few spots where pollution from humans is not rampant and bio diversity is not decreasing (because in NZ with our development economic focus and zero care for the environment in our resource consents in real terms just lip service) … aka should the Amazon and other less habituated places be destroyed so that more crops and development can take place….

                Funny enough all the places deemed best to live in in the world had low populations… we could have less people and have better lives overall that is the choice. And people are living longer so there are more and more people around…. as well as so many more people being born….

            • SaveNZ 1.2.1.1.1.3
              18 January 2019 at 2:20 pm

              @Drowsy M. Kram – how are we going to attract the best and brightest to stay in NZ when our wages are woeful and opportunities non existent.

              Even the migrants and migrant children who get NZ education in NZ are off at the first opportunity because the prospect of a low waged, insecure position does not appeal.

              From Peter Thiel types who have a lovely pitch of ‘helping NZ’ but then fucking off after getting his speedy residency (after a tens of millions windfall when he WITHDRAWS the money he invested in a NZ company), never to be seen again apart from his Queenstown mansion that stops another resident having a place to live.

              Look at the Handley drama, someone educated in NZ, leaves, loses citizenship through not being in NZ enough, gets the government to push through his citizenship again, comes with his kids to be educated here, then without working a day gets a six figure payout from government … and after a lengthy process when the government rejected 100’s of other candidates and they settle on someone who has no technical qualifications or experience in the role at CTO, as the best candidate???

              Something is wrong here with opportunities and the people and processes hiring and hence this idea that there are not the best and brightest here, but more like, the employers would not know a good candidate and just gets the lowest priced or person who has the best pitch for a role, which is driving the best and brightest out of the country.

              Save with the government grants, most often given to big business or some networked individual who txts prime minister for example… you don’t see real innovation or work in NZ rewarded very often.

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.2
            19 January 2019 at 5:17 pm

            I can’t follow your reasoning marty mars. Can you? And don’t start throwing terms such as hate speech around to people who come here and discuss with good faith and not RW slant. And someone needs to tell you what to do.

            If we could reduce the immigrant numbers, say setting a sinking quota over a few years, and those that are in the pipeline get first dibs, but the future criteria is changed and the overall quota gets smaller and smaller. That will help.

            And for needed workers. Young NZ people who are going to be low-paid workers get interviewed and chosen if they want to work hard . They get in Ace working groups and go and work on the seasonal jobs and then get choice to go and work off-season in temporary jobs where they can acquire a useful skill and experience (not picking up litter, as that is entry-level and they would be above that.) So that would raise the numbers who can see a way out of poverty and dead-end jobs.

      • bwaghorn 1.2.2
        18 January 2019 at 11:24 am

        You forgot middle aged white guys . We get blamed for everything.

        • Robert Guyton 1.2.2.1
          18 January 2019 at 11:28 am

          Except cleaning the toilet too thoroughly.

        • marty mars 1.2.2.2
          18 January 2019 at 11:48 am

          It’s all spin mate – just not the universe.

          “If the universe was born with an initial spin, as it expanded from the Big Bang, turbulence would cause the initial angular momentum to dissipate among smaller and smaller objects. In other words, we would not expect the universe as a whole to be rotating now. Instead, the smaller objects like galaxies would “remember” the primordial angular momentum and show a preference for rotating about the original spin axis.”

          http://www.astronomy.com/magazine/ask-astro/2015/04/spinning-universe

        • SaveNZ 1.2.2.3
          18 January 2019 at 2:29 pm

          Yes, work harder, longer and don’t expect a health system or super to turn to because it’s not hard to work out how it can be afforded with the government selling off assets in between awarding criminals with $2 million houses and more aged people who never paid any taxes here and likely to have bad health from pollution, heavy smoking and counterfeit food needing that hospital bed residency…

          • bwaghorn 1.2.2.3.1
            18 January 2019 at 2:33 pm

            I never plan to retire(its the worst thing a person can do mentally and physically) and thus far the health system has kept me going ,and I’m more than a little prone to oopsees . But keep up the good work keeping them honest .(I mean that)

            • SaveNZ 1.2.2.3.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 2:42 pm

              bwaghorn, I’m pretty sure you will stop working from 80 onwards…

              The other thing is retirement at 65 now is quite different to how a 65 year old was looking a generation ago… people live longer with modern medicine…. and less manual labour… and more awareness about smoking etc

              • bwaghorn …
                18 January 2019 at 5:40 pm

                My 84 year old boss still does 10 hour days when needed and can and does still shear sheep .
                It’s more those people who get to 65 and sit on there arse complaing and bothering the drs because they have nothing else to do that bug me .
                Go hard and die with your boots on if you’re lucky.

    • marty mars 1.3
      18 January 2019 at 12:43 pm

      I’ve just had a reread of your post and the links. Heartless people like you I’d kick out of this country. Bringing her parents in would SAVE the country money you numbnut. Bigots like you are the actual problem not migrants, immigrants or refugees.

      • One Two 1.3.1
        18 January 2019 at 1:15 pm

        Comments and views such as yours, are part of the actual problem….marty…

        You are not the change you wish to see….not if the aggressive pattern in your posts here, are the example…

        • marty mars 1.3.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 2:30 pm

          Your problem is that the problem you think is my problem (and I don’t agree that that problem is a problem) is actually not a problem compared to the problem I raised.

          but to show fairness could you please outline which of my views in this thread are “part of the actual problem” – spose you’d better spell that out too cos I don’t know what you mean by the “actual problem” from your perspective.

          • One Two 1.3.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 3:16 pm

            Marty, much of what you say on a number of topics, is agreeable and knowledgeable. IMO…

            The immigration ‘situation’ is and has been poorly handled and managed for a very long time, and I would say is a severe problem to find answers to, for the country to have likelihood of preventing becoming more serious downstream…

            As you are aware, it is a highly complex issue made up of many working parts where the influx of immigrants result from poor policy, and even worse planning…

            Are the immigrants themselves at fault…overwhelmingly they are not….

            But regardless, that does not and should not preclude commentary such as from SNZ, being legitimate in content…

            My opinion, is that SNZ raises some valid points….perhaps not in a way that resonates with you, but certainly not in a manner that your responses were a match to…

            • marty mars 1.3.1.1.1.1
              19 January 2019 at 9:21 pm

              “Are the immigrants themselves at fault…overwhelmingly they are not….”

              Exactly. And I won’t tolerate bullying of these people. I reciprocate, I reflect, I mirror.

      • OnceWasTim 1.3.2
        18 January 2019 at 1:17 pm

        Over the months, I’ve made a number of attempts at engaging with SaveNZ, and I’m not going to go back wasting my time doing searches now.
        A number of others have done likewise.
        He’s correct on a number of things but I’m afraid he often buys into nationalistic tendencies and things that suggest some immigrants from certain places must all be the bloody same.
        I agree with SaveNZ on a number of things.
        It doesn’t alter the fact that over the past ten years or so, we (NZ Inc – brought to you by Messrs Joyce and Coleman) implemented a system that was designed (intentionally or otherwise) to exploit the vulnerable.
        Things are gradually changing (NOT FUCKING FAST ENOUGH).
        But the system as implemented has effectively industrialised immigration of the already vulnerable, and then it’s sought to blame them if and when it all went tits up – which of course it has – whether it’s driving down wages and conditions overall, whether it’s diminished educational standards in pursuite of the almighty dollar, whether its allowed ‘ticket clippers’ to flourish at the expense of the exploited, whether its allowed exploitation of women (crap bought marriages, children that weren’t really wanted or otherwise),

        And it’s a system that tars all immigrants with the same brush. It confuses people NZ actually needs (and NOT just in economic terms but also in terms of their commitment and preparedness, and willingness to contribute to society, with those looking for the easiest option. (Not unlike some ‘Kiwis’ swanning off overseas in pursuit of better economic outcomes).
        It causes othewise good folk (dare I say it, such as SaveNZ) to make a broad spectrum drench out of the need to kill a couple of pesky weeds.
        And its a system that is administered by a Ministry that’s proven itself to be utterly dysfunctional in so many areas.
        And as for the gNats trying to call foul now that it has all gone tits up (most of all the pompous Woodhouse) Hark at HE,
        HE should be a bit careful.
        And then it’s always possible that one or two previously exploited by those within his (the Wodehouse) own ranks could come forward.

        • marty mars 1.3.2.1
          18 January 2019 at 1:38 pm

          I don’t mind save either and I do understand the fears. I also don’t want every migrant, immigrant and refugee to come here. I also want the vulnerable here to be looked after. But I’m over blaming some group for all the trouble.

          We pay shit for shit jobs – $400 a day to plant pines is shit money for what that does to your body. Picking fruit for duck all is shit, looking after elders in resthomes is paid crap. Fix the pay that is the answer. Value the work that is the answer. Treat people with respect that is the answer. Well for me anyway 😊

          • OnceWasTim 1.3.2.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 1:53 pm

            +100.
            It’s fairly basic really. I could roll out so many platitudes, but it seems too hard for a lot of people to grasp.
            Things like do unto others as you would…..etc.

            You know, yesterday, watching all that concern over Brexit over pan-media and including here on TS, I thought I’d re-familiarise myself with one or two national anthems.
            Christ! it was depressing so I gave up. And then I was bombarded in the MSM by all that coverage of half a dozen Travellers (the pearly white ones), where the initial reports labelled them as Irish.
            Interesting too, the response from Pleece and Immigration officials (under-resourced as we all now have to admit they are) . versus. the commitment that’s been shown over the past decade to migrant exploitation.

            But you konw – it’s all there and black and white for the likes of Woodhouse, Bridges, even a Bakshi Singh or a Palmer to try to defend.
            Honesty, commitment to whatever principles you profess to have, and ethical behaviour is so much easier eh?

            • OnceWasTim 1.3.2.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 1:56 pm

              By the way @ Marty – simmer down a bit eh?. You’ll awaken the woke and it’ll serve fuck all purpose

              • marty mars …
                18 January 2019 at 2:13 pm

                If I had a dollar everytime…

                My righteous anger is all show – I recriprocate, I exchange, I mirror. And with hidden humor for those who look.

                But I do piss people off so sorry people.

                • veutoviper …
                  18 January 2019 at 2:30 pm

                  Hang in there e hoa. Both of you.

                  What pisses me off are [deleted – but it included references to sanctimony …].

          • SaveNZ 1.3.2.1.2
            18 January 2019 at 2:33 pm

            I’m not blaming the migrants I’m blaming government policy and poor immigration decisions over the last 30 years, and the government’s inability to close loopholes so that the honest migrants come, not send out a SOS to some of the world’s nasty people who seem to be coming here and inexplicably getting residency when there are other more deserving and beneficial migrants we could be attracting, or even better try and lure our own youth or keep them in NZ, with decent opportunities…

            • OnceWasTim 1.3.2.1.2.1
              18 January 2019 at 4:23 pm

              Good to know that @ SaveNZ, because we’ve lost a number of really good people over the past decade or so – not just in terms of the skills shortages we really need, but also in terms of their commitment to the country and their honesty and compassion (and actually we’re just about to loose quite a few more.)
              We’ve lost/ or are about to lose horticulturalists with the greenest of credentials – and one or to of who were eagre to pass on their skills to the young unemployed Maori in a couple of orchards that I’d heard local Iwi had recently pruchased.
              We’ve lost/or are about to lose IT professionals with specialist skills – and I don’t just mean you’re average DBA or your mobile MR Tech Guru looking to fleece the digitally disconnected
              We’ve lost/or are about to lose medical professionals prepared to build up and support communities in rural NZ
              We’ve lost/or are about to lose people involved in aged care with a knowledge of exactly what’s needed to improve that little rort.
              We could have had a couple of electronics and avionics experts that Rocket Man would have been envious of.
              We could have had one or two people a damn sight more capable than the consultants and locals responsible for the bugger’s muddle that now is Wellington’s bus network.
              (I could go on – endlessly)

              And so whilst I feel sympathy for the likes of Cleangreen’s son (from memory wishing to come home with his new wife/girlfriend), we’re not ever going to resolve the inequities and exploitative system that exists whilst we operate with current policies and with the culture that’s held by those responsible for immigration and workplace management, it’s oversight and enforcement.
              Even now (for example) we’re still bonding some people to specific employers rather than to their employment sector.
              And then there’s all that fucked up points system that allows a Thiel while causing the shit, some of which I’ve referred to above.

      • SaveNZ 1.3.3
        18 January 2019 at 4:55 pm

        You should be a Rogenomics economist in Wellington or an immigration lawyer with your financial logic there…. or an MSM journalist…

        • greywarshark 1.3.3.1
          19 January 2019 at 5:26 pm

          That was rude savenz if you were taling to OWT. It is really disappointing that some people don’t take a count to ten before they let go of their cream pie.
          Much of what you say is true but why harangue us. Write it to the politicians and their taptap mates pushing people round as if they were planning on a War Board. You and Jenny How fulminate here – go straight to the horses mouth and stuff it in their oats bag.

    • Janet 1.4
      18 January 2019 at 1:51 pm

      Why don,t they just go home to their parents ….

      • SaveNZ 1.4.1
        18 January 2019 at 2:38 pm

        @Janet, because then they would not be entitled to free welfare in NZ such as health care, free education, free superannuation (while it lasts), free accomodation benefit… in China they don’t have a welfare system so for a small investment of $30k you can pay an immigration lawyer to come to NZ and then try to get the rest of your relatives in here…

        sadly the poor of NZ don’t have $12k to pay for lawyers, some of our poorest don’t even have a house to live in or enough food to eat.

        Other parents with autistic children have the same issues, but don’t lobby the government to get free relatives into the country to look after them (which they could as visitors anyway) but apparently the idea is to get free care for their parents too, through residency status.

        and the threat is that they will stop work if they don’t let their parents in.

        We are still better off with a sole parent than a parent on $70k with 2 aged parents who need looking after by NZ society for the next 20+ years!

  2. WeTheBleeple 2
    18 January 2019 at 7:33 am

    Ed is not here. In tribute 😀

    Have you thought about eating less meat? According to the latest studies, it will help not only the planet, but your health.

    The world needs a new diet:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12191895

    Personally, I found the concept of less/no meat frightening. Meals would be bland! Nutrition would suffer! Protein…

    Resistance to change is strong.

    The reality has been that as the garden grows ever more varieties of food, and as my cooking evolves to incorporate the wonderful new flavors of the garden AND inspired by the sumptuous offerings of my communities immigrant populations, I have more options than ever before.

    Now I’m down to one or or two serves of meat per week, and here’s the kicker, I made ZERO effort to cut down. It was just a natural progression as I learned to cook more variety and how to copiously use herbs to make dishes pop.

    Diversify the diet and meat gets reduced as a consequence. Simple stuff I didn’t see coming.

    • Robert Guyton 2.1
      18 January 2019 at 7:40 am

      I’ll never eat another elk. Okapi neither. Hooved animals are tough on the ground, except where they can roam freely.

      • ianmac 2.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 9:21 am

        Frankly Robert I haven’t eaten any kiwi in the last 12 months.

      • Ad 2.1.2
        18 January 2019 at 10:23 am

        i was in Haast last week and the venison steak hamburger was supplied by an ex-cop who sources it all from Fiordland.

        and it was the sweetest, softest, juiciest venison steakburger i’ve ever had.

        saving our national forest, one bambi at a time.

    • JanM 2.2
      18 January 2019 at 7:41 am

      Funny, I was just thinking I miss Ed and his ‘save the planet’ messages.

      I like your discussion about your change in diet – really a delight. More detail would be cool.

      • Bewildered 2.2.1
        18 January 2019 at 9:52 am

        Bring back Ed, Bring back Ed ……,

      • WeTheBleeple 2.2.2
        18 January 2019 at 11:57 am

        It all started as an idea to save money and stay healthy as an adult student. After JK rorted post-grad studies I found myself borrowing $50 pw less than the dole to survive on. And survive I did.

        The garden grew profusely the first summer and all manner of food was realised much of which wound up with the birds (harvest a little early, or net, and provide the birds water) but I ate a lot of raw food for lunches much of it quite unpalatable. Winter was scarcity but then some young greens at uni put on some feeds and there was the lifewise kitchen feeding me for a few dollars and I’d give them herbs and veggies. I soon realized seeing what these folk were doing with simple fare that I had food but few skills with it. I saw a cauliflower and in my head it required meat and other vegetables to make a meal. But then you investigate: cauliflower bake, cauliflower soup, cauliflower pizza base – and as you’d imagine, with practice my diet and cooking improved.

        I you tube cooking channels. Especially budget and fresh oriented cooks. I like Brothers Green Eats a couple of stoner bros who love and understand food. They are entertaining and informative. Food on a budget, and food from scratch, valuable information. One brother at least is edging into permaculture.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKBefGJKeN0

        As trees and berries I’ve put into the garden begin to mature new foods and challenges arise. how do I utilise these resources. How do I preserve things. How do I make winters not so lean?

        Bananas and berries in the freezer gave smoothies and baking ingredients all year. Fermented vegetables provided probiotics. Potatoes and kumara and taro and crown pumpkins all store really well (leave taro in the ground). Herbs were dried easily in the hot water cupboard…

        Slowly, developing plant knowledge, and scouring several cultures for a range of uses (and storage) of culinary plants, I began to be able to mix and match more and more foods effectively.

        Today if you look my cupboards are bare. My sister arrives and puts junk in them fretting I am hungry. If I gaze into the cupboards I too might think I’m hungry. But then I’ve had two three course meals this week. (I only eat one official meal per day now but that’s another adventure).

        So I sit there with ‘no food’ and think about it. And this type of thing happens:

        (garden ingredients gathered or already in storage in brackets)

        Celery soup (garlic, a potato, lots of celery, celery seeds)
        Cucumber salad and chunky fries (cucumbers, dill, tomatoes, spring onions, basil, greens, potatoes, rosemary)
        Rhubarb and custard (rhubarb)

        Then the next night

        Cheese and onion salad (greens, herbs, spring onions, chives, garlic greens, cherry tomatoes)
        Frittata (potato, courgette, sage, spring onion, chilli, tomato, kumara greens, garlic, basil…)
        Banana bread (banana).

        So the majority of things are now built from scratch from simple ingredients. Or simple, but very tasty dishes. Who knew it was that easy to make top notch food?

        It’s a simultaneous journey of the kitchen and garden, a synergy resulting in food security.

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.1
          18 January 2019 at 1:49 pm

          Shall we “do” food and water on this Sunday’s “How to get there”?
          Medicines too, and brewing. A bit of beekeeping and Guinea pig raising? Storing and preserving, that sort of thing?
          It’d be fun. We could all talk with an Alison Holst accent, or a Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall one.

          • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 2:24 pm

            Nothing wrong with the survivalist dimension of the topic, but I prefer the leverage that can be applied via gnosis around better ways of working together. Collaboration, extending consensus, paradigm-shifting stuff.

            Solutions to the road-blocks on the way to getting there, how to ease off the brakes on progress, etc. Group psychodynamics. Yeah, I know lotsa folk find it all too airy-faerie, but we can’t allow that to hold us back! 😎

          • WeTheBleeple 2.2.2.1.2
            18 January 2019 at 2:39 pm

            Food AND water? I guess they go hand in hand. Makes it a big topic but you got to get one right to make the other easy: I was just siting a cherimoya today and, after digging the hole realised I’ll need a wee swale above it – that or have to pamper the darn tree every summer – not doing that.

            Found this long but very your kind of thing ethnobotany article today on Incan plants in relation to NZ. Saved it for you. Enjoy.

            https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/lost-crops-of-the-incas/

        • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.2
          18 January 2019 at 2:33 pm

          Last time I willingly ate a rhubarb and custard pudding I was still at school (’67). Standard fare in all kiwi households in the fifties & sixties. Not that I really minded them at all, just that custard began to seem to symbolise the lifestyle everyone was rebelling against.

          I recall making a cauli cheese meal regularly after that, similar to the macaroni cheese which had been standard so long, but a vegetarian equivalent. If I did that nowadays I’d lace it with garlic, spice it up considerably, and add sliced spring onions in the final stage of the cooking (plus herb Robert, kelp powder).

          Sounds like you may be getting lean from under-eating? If you are active all day, I wonder what generates the energy.

          • WeTheBleeple 2.2.2.2.1
            18 January 2019 at 2:56 pm

            ‘Lean from under eating’

            There’s food all over the place in bins, bags and bottles. It just looks spartan because the garden is the main storage.

            I’ve been on one meal a day for years if I’m laboring hard I might add more I know myself pretty well. Caloric restriction is a choice based on research of evolution and caloric restriction in animals. Might outlive a lot of my peers fate willing.

            As for digging holes etc, there’s a difference between getting daily fitness/exercise, and slaving for some mongrel. My efforts are all good.

            Just dropped an 8 m privet with a handsaw. Cos it’s good exercise, and in the way of my new Cherimoya.

            Most of society is overweight. My diabetic sister is concerned with how I eat. When she lived on a farm and ate from her garden she was half the weight and not diabetic.

            • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.2.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 4:19 pm

              Just dropped an 8 m privet with a handsaw.

              Either a recently-sharpened one, or the privet doesn’t swell up to choke the saw like many trees do. I usually use a bow-saw. I have an electric chain-saw for harder cuts. Pohutawa even defeats that.

              • McFlock …
                18 January 2019 at 4:29 pm

                Cut wedges until the weight of the branch opens the cut as you go.

                • Dennis Frank …
                  18 January 2019 at 4:33 pm

                  Thanks, a traditional logger’s practice, huh? I’d forgotten about it.

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  18 January 2019 at 5:51 pm

                  Gravity is my friend. Need a larger cut on an angle, yes, but if I’ve already provided a back cut the log doesn’t jam at a certain point it drops. And more importantly, it drops where I aim it.

                  Bahco handsaw. Legendary. Been thrashing it for 6 months now. Cleaned with kero once after something sappy.

                  They’re not particularly big what I’m cutting, but they are leggy. Was 8m without the foliage. Now I have mulch, firewood, a gap for my tree…

                  The hard bit was boring/digging a hole through the roots to plant the new tree. Worth it.

                  Don’t dig a $10 hole for a $40 tree.

        • Molly 2.2.2.3
          18 January 2019 at 5:01 pm

          Frozen bananas and berries through one of the old champion juicers, makes a delicious alternative to fruit icecream, without the need for any additives or sugar.

    • patricia bremner 2.3
      18 January 2019 at 1:57 pm

      Agree 1000% Way to go for the future. Flexible inclusive eating.
      Hip op great. Feeling brilliant.

      • veutoviper 2.3.1
        18 January 2019 at 2:07 pm

        WOW! You’re here already.. When was the op?

        Thrilled you are feeling so good.

        • patricia bremner 2.3.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 3:02 pm

          op was 9.00 awake 12 spinal very alert and feel great lol meds may wear off tomorrow and there could be a hangover lol

          • veutoviper 2.3.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 3:13 pm

            Great!

            Pleased you went with spinal as I did. Was up and walking about three hours after the op. I had a bit of a hangover that same evening but was bright as a button the next morning. Up dressed in casual clothes not nightwear, and walking up and down stairs that afternoon. Home less than 72 hours after the op. Others who had general anesthesia for their ops the same day as mine were not even seen for two days, and then still groggy and were due to stay in the hospital for at least two days longer than myself and the other person who had spinal.

            You won’t know yourself in just a few days, hopefully.

            • patricia bremner 2.3.1.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 3:27 pm

              Thank you. Hope so 3 cups of tea 3 waters lamb filo and broccoli lunch and an apricot ..spoiled rotten Everyone lovely to me.
              Our Public Hospital Service is brilliant but may need to consider staff more.. pay more .. stick to agreements … as the staff are gold.

  3. Kat 3
    18 January 2019 at 8:15 am

    Its started, Hoots ushers in the first of the 2019: “does Jacinda Ardern know what Winston Peters is doing” commentary. Watch as it ramps up throughout the year as National and its wee media sycophants try and wedge the coalition govt. Here’s a happy new year of spin to you Hoots, just so you know we know what you are up too.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12191990

    • Dennis Frank 3.1
      18 January 2019 at 8:42 am

      “Extraordinarily, Jacinda Ardern revealed her Cabinet had never discussed Peters’ bold new move, nor had she even been given a copy of his speech in advance.”

      But did she really? Note that he didn’t use evidence to validate this claim. Reasonable readers won’t take him seriously until such evidence is presented.

      “The question is whether Ardern’s Labour Party is happy with her Government’s new stance and therefore whether anyone can rely on it.” Good question. Valid leadership issue. We await her response.

      “Ardern named only four “friends” in her big foreign policy speech back in March: Australia, the US, the UK and China. Neither “Europe” nor the “European Union” appeared even once. This seems consistent with Peters’ emphasis.” Good point. If it indicates that Labour have sussed the EU as a problem entity, we ought to credit them with collective intelligence.

      “Confusing matters, however, officials later suggested excluding Europe may just have been an oversight by Beehive speechwriters rather than a deliberate statement of policy.” No kidding??! You mean the PM’s leadership is the product of her servants? Presenting her as a robot on autopilot may not be a good idea, d’you think?

      • Kat 3.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 9:13 am

        “Reasonable readers won’t take him seriously until such evidence is presented”

        Its the nibble away “thousand cuts” approach. Herald readers are mostly “reasonable” ordinary people who do tend to believe that where they read, in a national newspaper, that there is smoke then there must be some fire. How do you think John Key and co were able to con a significant number of these “reasonable” ordinary people for the last decade.

        • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 9:30 am

          Yeah he serves as propagandist. Discerning readers may suspect his lack of evidence but, like me, not make time to go looking for it. So the ball’s in Ardern’s court. I suspect she will eventually bat it back. Just a question of how much autonomy a foreign minister actually has, and how much cabinet has agreed to the foreign policy initiative he takes. I suspect they’re quite relaxed about it, but Hooton could have a point about some discontent in Labour’s ranks.

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 10:11 am

            Discerning readers will not take the bait and they will use critical thinking to assess the veracity of any claims, based on the track record of the accuser. If that approach is even hinted at hoots is shown for the ridiculous pathetic hollow boy he is. The ball is NOT in the PM’s court because hoots hasn’t even sent one of his balls over the net yet he is still tossing them in the air.

      • greywarshark 3.1.2
        18 January 2019 at 9:50 am

        I think four friends is surprising, seeing that three are from the 5 Eyes connection. Where is Canada? It looks like a deliberate snub by NZ to a country that is trying to maintain a separate national policy from the USA despite being closely bound by a trade agreement, and proximity.

        In May last year there was a ‘workshop’ on the 5 eyes political situation. I’m not sure if any NZs were there or if we just have reports. But they discussed us and found us rather too closely intertwined with China for comfort.

        The report describes New Zealand as the “soft underbelly” of the Five Eyes spy network, which is made up of New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US and the UK.
        “New Zealand is valuable to China, as well as to other states such as Russia, as a soft underbelly through which to access Five Eyes intelligence,” it reads.

        Peter Mattis, a former CIA analyst who spoke to the US Congress about the growing concern regarding New Zealand, told RNZ on Wednesday it warranted a close eye.
        “This isn’t the evidence to say someone’s guilty or someone’s innocent, or there’s not a problem – but there’s sufficient information there to suggest there is an issue, or at the very least, a very real risk.”

        Asked in Congress whether New Zealand’s presence in the Five Eyes group should be questioned, he said: “Precisely.”
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/05/nz-labelled-soft-underbelly-of-five-eyes-spy-network-in-canadian-report.html

        Don’t we want to trade also with the EU as well as our 5 Eyes partners. We must keep our ties up with the EU, we can draw on goodwill from good things we managed to do in WW2, and try to ensure that we keep our options .

        We want more than English speaking friends; not learning other languages and being reliant on English is just a carry-over from colonialism, and outdated, lazy thinking. We need to be in the thick of a world which we have invited in, in our simple way, and which is using sophisticated techniques to take out more than they came with, while we deal with the detritus they leave behind. We must have more ‘friends’, as the ones stated are quite capable of being extremely unfriendly to us. With friends like that….. it pays to have good relations with other countries which have generally good standards and build cross-cultural,
        bi-cultural relationships which will benefit both countries.

        Also this concerning Huawei. Paul Buchanan seems to be knowledgable and balanced in his analysis of political relations, history, present and likely intentions. Does anyone have doubts about what he has said?
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12176792

        • One Two 3.1.2.1
          18 January 2019 at 10:29 am

          Does anyone have doubts about what he has said?

          Undoubtedly, such discussions would also include the public heath risks associated with the deployment of 5G wireless networks…

          * How to ensure the taxpayer covers the deployment costs

          * How to ensure liability for health issues arising from the deployments are minimized for the corporations involved

          * How to keep discussion around the impacts on humans, animals, insects and the environment out of the public arena

          • greywarshark 3.1.2.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 10:36 am

            Did Buchanan mention all those things, and indeed does he show good judgment in his opinions generally?

            • One Two 3.1.2.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 11:02 am

              * How to keep discussion around the impacts on humans, animals, insects and the environment out of the public arena

              Buchanan is part of the media, who so far are compliant in keeping critical impacting aspects of the deployment of 5G out of the public arena….

              Instead the reporting has been confined to a single aspect of the ‘security’ discussion…

              The security discussion alone, regarding wireless deployments on the scale that 5G is touted, land, air and space is a significant discussion which the public should be a stakeholder in….not just a consumer of content to be told what is happening….

              5G is a public health and environmental disaster not being talked about…except China…

              Buchanan is doing his job well, and keeping to the narrative

            • Anne 3.1.2.1.1.2
              18 January 2019 at 11:57 am

              …does he show good judgment in his opinions generally?

              Yes he does gws.

              As a former senior member of the American intelligence community he is well versed in both the mindset of… and the operational techniques of intelligence agencies generally. I would put him at the forefront of NZ’s expertise in this area.

            • veutoviper 3.1.2.1.1.3
              18 January 2019 at 12:22 pm

              I am surprised that you don’t know who Paul Buchanan is, and his credentials as he is often invited onto RNZ National (Morning Report etc) as a expert on international political matters, and specifically security, 5 eyes etc. He is not a “part of the media” as One Two suggests, but appears in the same capacity in other media as he does on RNZ News etc.

              He has been resident in NZ for years and blogs as “Pablo” at the Kiwipolitico blog site – one of my top ‘go to’ blogs, as it is for many others here on TS. A number of commenters there also comment here.

              Here is a link to his latest blog post on Kiwipolitico on Huawei a few days ago.

              http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2019/01/playing-us-for-suckers-2/

              Lots more recent posts there also worth reading (along with the comments).

              • greywarshark …
                18 January 2019 at 12:38 pm

                I am surprised vv that you don’t know me better than this. I wanted to see whether what I think I know about Buchanan was verified by the bright people that come here. You amongst them. No-one is right all the time but I get the idea that he is 90% okay.

                And thanks for the Pablo info. I had read who Pablo is and forgotten it. So ta, he makes a good read there. Though I don’t go everywhere I should. I mostly stick to Bowalley and Scoop now. Also thanks Anne much appreciated.

              • One Two …
                18 January 2019 at 1:02 pm

                but appears in the same capacity in other media as he does on RNZ News etc.

                As you point out, PB is part of the media…

                Buchanans intelligence credentials enable him to operate as gatekeeper extraordinaire, and is trained at ensuring the 5 eyes compliant media arms direct the public eye away from where it actually should be focused….

                “I believe the US intelligence community consensus that Huawei works hand in glove with Chinese Intelligence,” says Buchanan

                Of course you do Paul…it’s your job…

                As if that is not the standard practice in 5 eyes et al….which of course it is…

                The ‘security’ focus on Huawei is a red-herring, a deflection and a diversion…

                • Anne …
                  18 January 2019 at 3:08 pm

                  Buchanans intelligence credentials enable him to operate as gatekeeper extraordinaire, and is trained at ensuring the 5 eyes compliant media arms direct the public eye away from where it actually should be focused…

                  You do talk shit sometimes One Two. Anyone who has been reading Pablo’s posts regularly would know he does the opposite. If anything he is extra hard on the intelligence agencies – the US ones in particular.

                  What amuses me about people like you (known quite a few over the years) is that you are always so convinced of your abilities that you can’t conceive that you might ever be wrong.

                  And vv is correct. He is NOT part of the media. The MSM go to him regularly for comment that’s all. He has his own consultancy agency.

                  • One Two …
                    18 January 2019 at 3:19 pm

                    He is NOT part of the media. The MSM go to him regularly for comment that’s all

                    He is a gatekeeper of information, Anne…who is used by the media…and is therefore part of ‘the media’….

                    You do talk shit sometimes One Two

                    I do also know which industry I’m in, Anne…

                    So when I read gatekeepers like PB making statements such as:

                    “I believe the US intelligence community consensus that Huawei works hand in glove with Chinese Intelligence,”

                    He is talking out both sides of his mouth, because he knows full well, that the generic ‘tech/comms industry’ have been aligned with the ‘intelligence agencies’ since the beginning…

                    Not just Chinese companies, Anne….all of them…

                    And so being that media are seemingly keen to keep the 5G conversation and narratives tightly managed…points such as those I have been raising regarding the deployment of 5G networks and the negative implications that could create…are probably going to remain out of ‘the media’…

              • patricia bremner …
                18 January 2019 at 3:35 pm

                Thanks I will now read that blog with interest .

          • Bruce 3.1.2.1.2
            18 January 2019 at 4:57 pm

            It sèems no one is keen to look at this 5G, I saw a video while reading about the smog in Bangkok and like that poster became very concerned. It seems to me to be a very big and quoting research very real threat. I shard the video here with no reaction, yet last week waded through pages of comment regarding GE, I’m not for it, but still no deaths or anything definite, we are to have a referendun on the choice to ingest some herb and books have been filled on discussion for and against. But here we have what appears to be the govt on behalf of big business putting towers out side our schools and houses that will emit deadly radiation and no one bats an eye. Some thing is odd about this.

            • One Two 3.1.2.1.2.1
              18 January 2019 at 6:15 pm

              Hi Bruce,

              Please re-post the link you refer, if you still have it I don’t recall seeing it…

              The telecommunications industry is one of the largest and most insidious industry’s ever known…

              Since the advent of wireless communications, developed out of military for the most part, including weapons development….there has been ample data pointing to the types of damage and illness caused by radio frequencies…

              Since the full commercialization of global telecom’s the acceleration and deployment of wireless technology has far surpassed the ability of any research into the effects to keep anywhere near the advancements….

              ‘Corporate science’ as witnessed by the tobacco industry as become the standard, and is propagated through regulatory capture and ubiquitous revolving door policy between regulators and industry…exactly the same strategy used by the chemical industries including pharmaceutical….

              The technology, and the negative effects of it…risks far outweigh benefits (sounds familiar to you perhaps from other industry) are, in recent times becoming better understood due to the passing of time enabling effects to be recorded, studied and reported on….but still the deployment Juggernaut continues with what can only be referred to as a clear and assisted pathway…with little to no controls in place…

              There already was a public health issue, alongside the environmental damage caused since 1G/2G deployments decades ago…however it is now orders of magnitude worse at the present time….

              And yet 5G will eclipse ALL present levels of ionizing and non-ionizing radiation by unfathomable, immeasurable and un-testable orders of magnitude….

              The architecture of 5G (hardware/software/infrastructure) along with the frequency bands selected as transporters, the power required to provide stability to the frequencies, are again, orders of magnitude greater than anything that is commercially used at present time….

              By its inherent limitations in the radio spectrum for transporting packets of digital data, the number of small cell towers will be located literally everywhere in numbers that once again, are orders of magnitude higher than the number of towers currently required and in use for 3/4/4.5G….Those towers are not restricted in locations in western nations either Bruce….not in any considered restriction….

              Yes it is a complex subject, and yes it is a subject which overwhelming people are not aware of or pay any attention to, despite the Huawei sideshow….most have absolutely no idea about the fundamental dangers of posed by RF’s used in wireless networks…

              And yet the regulatory agencies have deployed federal legislation that will prevent states/county’s/local jurisdictions to resist the deployment of 5G networks (see USA FCC – https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/business/5g-technology-fcc-rules.html )

              Complete regularity and state capture….

              So far, the global conversations (and there are many going on including law suits) which are gathering volumes of evidence about the somewhat covert, and completely noninclusive 5G deployments, has even reached the courtrooms in the UK and been ruled against…

              The GMO analogy you raise is relevant, because people don’t consider wireless to be a threat to their health or the well being of the environment…it is… both GMO/Wireless are threats…

              The difference is that wireless has a more expansive document archive of evidence which is far less controversial than that of GMO (due to the passage of time, restrictive regulations on GMO and the penetration of wireless networks on a literal global scale)….and yet…

              Many of those same people who are weary of GMO, are absolute advocates for AWG and greatly concerned about climate change and the environment….quite likely have little to no understanding of the stress and potential for damage that the deployment of 5G wireless networks MUST exert on all living things…human, animal, environment…in ways that are being kept out of the mainstream public domain…(not exclusively…but might as well be)

              Once 5G is being deployed, the possibility of a reversal and removal of the technology platform is very close to zero…

              Which is why the deployment will not include certain discussions…will not include the public…and has been given carte blanche by public bodies (who are actively running interference, and providing distracting narratives) charged with protecting human well being and the environment, to the private telco companies for the deployment of 5G as quickly and as quietly as they possibly can…Land…Air…Sky….

              • Bruce …
                18 January 2019 at 11:07 pm

                https://youtu.be/H_f9gpg4t6c

                Probably a bit late there now so you may miss it again

                • One Two …
                  19 January 2019 at 3:32 pm

                  Cheers, Bruce

                  That is a decent, close to mainstream view…

                  As per the legislation’s, it is a complete stitch up, and there is more to it than that especially in the US…

                  As these things go, the benefits are hyped, and in the case of wireless radiation technology, the risks are rating hardly a mention from the talking heads….in fact as per my comments the narrative is being restricted to a narrow aspect of the security discussion …where it is a transparent unidirectional pile on against Huawei of a deeply cynical and hypocritical nature….

                  There are limitations and constraints to the deployment of 5G, and despite what the industry and media propaganda is saying, there will be a considerable period of time (many years) before the technology will actually be ready for commercial deployment on small/medium scale, especially in the western nations…large scale deployments not a serious consideration presently…

                  Korea will be an early adopter, and the Chinese will be in many locations will be also….

                  What is certain is that the existing 3/4/4.5G frequencies will remain while the 5G frequencies go live over the years to come….which renders any ability for testing outside of a live environment for toxicity , irrelevant and relegated to the medical industry defining what constitutes damage caused by wireless networks….

                  If any talking head or so called ‘expert’ attempts to comfort the public that the tech is safe, that ‘there is no evidence’ etc etc….they should be resoundingly talked down…there is no way to manage such a discussion except by avoidance…

                  I would guess the industry will not risk broaching the ‘safety’ discussion…because there is no ‘safety’…it does not exist….the industry standards currently touted as evidence of ‘safety’ are from the 90’s…

                  The wireless industry, like the pharmaceutical and chemical industry’s are the epitome of so called ‘anti-science’…that can’t be overstated… the tactics have been honed in the various industry over many decades, to the point where the PR is essentially industry agnostic and simply a cookie cutter whitewash…Government is controlled (lobby groups, revolving door) by industry…any ‘research’ is funded and performed by the industry…and the media exists due to ownership and advertising by the same financiers and industry…

                  Taxpayers fund the deployments, as well as the legal defense , while the corporations receive indemnity….and keep the profits…rinse and repeat…

                  There is an extensive archive of damage evidence built up over +/- two decades of mobile use which is building day on day….there are also large groups of learned and interested human beings around the world who have been building up towards the challenge which is now present…

        • Anne 3.1.2.2
          18 January 2019 at 11:49 am

          From the Newshub link:

          Last week, a Senator and ex-CIA analyst told a US congressional hearing New Zealand politicians are receiving “major” donations from China, which has “gotten very close to or inside the political core”.

          Ahh… so that’s where the crap about “major donations from Chinese sources to the Labour Party” came from. Some rwnj on this site recently tried to claim as much. [If there was a search capability I would be able to locate it].

          The ex-CIA analyst was behind the ball game. It was not the current government but members of the former Nat government who were assiduously cultivating China and doing under the table political deals with them. And in return were receiving the “major donations” for their party coffers. Didn’t the CIA fellow know there had been a change of government in NZ? Or was he doing an American version of Matthew Hooten?

      • Wayne 3.1.3
        18 January 2019 at 9:54 am

        Dennis Frank

        Jacinda said herself in radio interviews that she hadn’t seen the speech which was well reported at the time. Journalists don’t typically provide links to verify statements that are readily available. One just accepts they are truthful on such readily checkable facts.

        The shift in strategy has been a surprise to most foreign policy commentators. NZ First Ministers have control of both defence and foreign affairs. In both their portfolios they have shown a more China skeptical approach. The PM has never contested it, except to say China is a good partner.

        There are two explanations. NZ First has control of this policy sector, and that Labour accepts that. Or the policy actually reflects Labour’s position as well. That seems unlikely given Labour’s history. So I go with the first option. Presumably there are limits to NZ First’s freedom of action in this area, but as yet we don’t know what those limits are.

        • Dennis Frank 3.1.3.1
          18 January 2019 at 10:07 am

          Hmm. Have to disagree with you in respect of traditional journalistic practice, on the basis of having had a career working closely with them as well as monitoring news & current affairs closely since the sixties. They usually validate via evidence.

          However I agree that the trend is towards promoting opinion instead. So Hooton’s assertion is typical of fake news, in that respect. I doubt we can assume that Ardern requires her foreign minister to run a speech by her before delivering it, nor that there is a cabinet convention requiring that. But I’m open to correction if I’m wrong.

          Whatever, strikes me Winston is just being sensible. If the leftists come up with any good reason to think he is being too pro-American, I’m open to considering that too, but they haven’t so far.

          • Wayne 3.1.3.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 10:41 am

            I would expect a shift of that nature to run by the PM’s office. Virtually every serious commentator thinks the change of stance toward China is significant. In that case I would expect the PM to know about it, not necessarily see the speech, but at least understand the fact of the shift and the reasons for it. And to agree to it. At least that is my experience.

            So far all indications are that the PM didn’t know about it. So not fake news.

            The PM has said quite a lot about how good a partner China is, but in doing so she has pointedly ignored the change in stance. Presumably that is deliberate. I can only assume that the PM and her top team believe New Zealand can take a more forthright stance toward China, but provided it is not too big or antagonistic, China will be OK with that. Of course that assumes the PM did know about the change in stance. In any event she certainly knows now and has done nothing to reverse it.

            It seems too me that it is now essentially good cop/bad cop. The PM says the nice things about China and the Foreign Minister is more skeptical.

            Maybe it will work. After all China understands that NZ has obligations under the Five Eyes partnership. They won’t expect to peel us off from such a fundamental alliance.

            • Psycho Milt 3.1.3.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 1:06 pm

              I also think it’s good cop/bad cop. Labour has to stay onside with China because it’s so dependent on Chinese money (possibly less so than National, but there wouldn’t be much in it), but at the same time it must hurt to have to say only nice things about a totalitarian regime with a long history of murder and misgovernment behind it. Winston Peters telling the truth about China lets Labour have it both ways – take the money and have plausible deniability when the hand that feeds gets bitten.

              • Dennis Frank …
                18 January 2019 at 2:02 pm

                Yes, I think Wayne’s response is entirely reasonable and the good/bad cop framing seems appropriate, for the reasons you set out too. It’s actually a deployment of the triangulation strategy – from a position of weakness rather than parity – but who knows whether deliberate or inadvertent…

            • Anne 3.1.3.1.1.2
              18 January 2019 at 3:15 pm

              It seems too me that it is now essentially good cop/bad cop. The PM says the nice things about China and the Foreign Minister is more skeptical.

              And I wonder who they learnt that little routine from? 😉

              Sorry. couldn’t resist. But you’re almost certainly right which is why Jacinda knew nothing about it.

      • patricia bremner 3.1.4
        18 January 2019 at 3:06 pm

        But we know there are a few who are gNat sympathisers and not above muddying the waters… or should we say allowing run off. hoping Winston will waft their way, but I don’t think he likes cows or their face of capitalism lol

  4. Philip Ferguson 4
    18 January 2019 at 8:17 am

    Junior doctors who are members of the Residents Doctors Association (RDA) have been striking this week in defence of their working conditions and for their Multi-Employer Collective Agreement (MECA). At the heart of this dispute sits bad faith negotiating by District Health Boards (DHBs), an attempt to undermine and expire the RDA MECA to impose an inferior MECA negotiated by a new rival union. . .

    full at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/why-resident-doctors-are-striking/

    • patricia bremner 4.1
      18 January 2019 at 3:17 pm

      Yes, told the staff here Rotorua DHB to keep it up, no work place should be able to change an existing agreement so that shifts disadvantage staff so seriously.

      Someone on TS may know the work hours for junior doctors… heard from a friend whose daughter is doing part of her training that the hours are very long..same for surgeons.

      So safe practice comes into it if they have to travel distances to another hospital to do their shift in “down time”.

  5. A 5
    18 January 2019 at 8:19 am

    Please read (or at least click) if you are interested in disabled – media is the only way this will change from the passive eugenics we have right now.

    “We should consider the increased chance of being in a one-parent household alongside data on carers’/parents’ wellbeing. In the Disability Survey, 60 percent of carers/parents of disabled children reported not having enough time for themselves and 42 percent reported often feeling stressed in the past four weeks; a further 38 percent reported sometimes feeling stressed in the past four weeks.

    One-parent households with disabled children make up most of New Zealand’s low-income households with disabled children: 86 percent of disabled children in households earning less than $30,000 a year are in one-parent households.”

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/01/10/393626/disability-and-poverty-dont-have-to-be-linked

  6. Morrissey 6
    18 January 2019 at 8:56 am

    Great Moments in Television
    No. 2: Rodney Hide stinks up Dancing with the Stars in 2006

    Six minutes and fifty seconds of mortification.

    Jason Gunn to Krystal: Are you all right? You sure?

    Judge Carol Anne Hickmore to Hide: That was not a good cha-cha, at all. Cha-cha is not a hard dance….

    Judge Brendan Cole: It was terrible. Krystal, it’s her job to make him good; it didn’t work. So who’s at fault? I don’t know. …It just wasn’t a good cha-cha. I didn’t enjoy it….

    Jason Gunn: You’re a wonderful man, Rodney Hide!

    Rodney Hide: I think people love me just trying to dance.

    The judges’ scores follow….
    Brendan Cole: 1. Alison Leonard: 1. Paul Mercurio: 1. Carol Anne Hickmore: 1. TOTAL: 4.

    The humiliation doesn’t end there. Candy Lane makes a comment about his shirt, and Hide offers to auction it off for St John’s. The crowd reaction is less than encouraging….

    https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/dancing-with-the-stars-series-rodney-hide-2006

    Great Moments in Television is compiled and presented by Tiggy Ponsford, for Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    No. 1: “ratsadrob” on Jeremy Kyle
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/01/general_debate_15_january_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2402588

    • Adrian Thornton 6.1
      18 January 2019 at 11:55 am

      Wow, so that is Dancing with the Stars, first time I have ever seen one, it was just as low brow as I thought it was going to be, maybe more.

      Funny I have always expected wake up one morning to hear a news report that the police had caught Hide up to his neck in something really dodgy…don’t know what, but something definitely not right….still might happen?

  7. greywarshark 7
    18 January 2019 at 10:07 am

    Oil and petrol prices and investment in infrastructure. Quite complicated. Apparently in general there is a lot of liquidity around and the world is looking for interesting and profitable investments. So anything NZ owned and successful is likely to be snapped up keeping business-driven inflation up.

    The report on Z service stations etc. is informative. Shareholders are getting restive. They are not getting the returns they want.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12191802
    ‘Who could be next on private equity’s shopping list?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12191876
    ‘Unloved Z Energy could improve – Craigs ‘

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    18 January 2019 at 11:02 am

    Chris Trotter has alerted us to the likely Nat election strategy next year: drive a wedge between Labour & NZF, using identity politics. http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-politics-of-distraction.html

    “Curia’s data also makes clear how divided the centre-left’s electoral base is on the transgender issue. If the Right is able to goad the identity politicians of Labour and the Greens into displaying a series of extreme responses to the transgender issue, then the potential for alienating a significant number of socially conservative Labour supporters is considerable.” So the focus will be on Louisa Wall. Will she become cheerleader or team-player? Can’t be both.

    “The likelihood of the activist left perceiving this danger is, however, remote. Of more significance to them will be the fact that upwards of a third of voters are happy to have transgender issues canvassed within New Zealand schools. They will, rightly, celebrate the sheer numerical dimensions of the tolerance and solidarity on display. Of less interest to these activists will be Curia’s finding that a clear majority of citizens are opposed to teaching children that their gender, far from being biologically fixed, can be changed.”

    “Plastic people, oh baby now, you’re such a drag” sang the Mothers of Invention in 1967. Could we see a revival when the doctrinaire transgender movement invades the education system? Culture wars coming to a school near you real soon. Check out the literacy level in the lyrics here: https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/frankzappa/plasticpeople.html

  9. greywarshark 9
    18 January 2019 at 11:53 am

    The Junior Doctors strike is a big problem for citizens. And why, is more than just the unrest and the time taken up and the cost of covering for the absent workers, and the rearrangement of cancelled work in an already stretched system and budgets. It is the fact that the junior doctors are badly overworked as if they are just on some sort of factory line. The system that demands so much of them is punitive and bad for patients, and of course they are hung out to dry if something goes wrong. We thought that these matters had largely been addressed with acceptance by the DHBs of better rosters and proper consideration for these important health givers. But now there is a fly in the ointment.

    I listened to an interview yesterday with somebody speaking for this new union for doctors that has set up. And I noticed that they brought up the risk of mistakes occurring from increased handovers from one shift to another. Which I thought was surprising because that can be dealt to by careful rote behaviour. It seemed to be one group who had special needs for their careers pursuing an individual line that would detract from the improvements to the health and wellbeing of the majority.

    Now Chris Trotter has drawn up a telling little summary about union management behaviour that relates to the junior doctors. And this seems inward-looking and turned towards union self-advancement.

    We have already seen a recurrence of old and bad practice when the aircraft engineers threatened a Christmas strike. We should look closely at what is going on with the two junior doctors unions and how the conflict of interests is being managed, or rather badly directed and enabled. We don’t need any more Labour oriented people setting a course for behaviour that is actually right wing oriented.

    This doesn’t look good. We all want and appreciate good doctors and medical staff and hope to find them in our times of need. They are doing specially important jobs caring for us, and we need to care for them.

    So what do we think about these developments in the lives of our precious medical staff. This is a hotty.
    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/01/silence-of-lambs-why-is-ctu-saying-so.html

  10. bwaghorn 10
    18 January 2019 at 11:53 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/109818642/capital-gains-tax–what-we-know-about-how-it-would-work

    Less taxs for workers and less benefit money being spent . Sounds good .

  11. One Two 11
    18 January 2019 at 11:55 am

    How The Wireless Industry Made Us Think That Cell Phones Are Safe

    And in the case of Lennart Hardell in Sweden, once he started to publish those findings in 2002, the industry immediately mobilized to have two of their friendly—industry-friendly scientists immediately put out a paper condemning Hardell. Well, we found out that those two scientists, at the very time that they were posing as independent scientists and saying that Mr.—that Dr. Hardell’s findings were methodologically incoherent, they were consulting—they were consulting to Motorola as expert witnesses in a brain tumor case. So, who are you going to believe?

  12. Puckish Rogue 12
    18 January 2019 at 12:31 pm

    Can’t believe I just joined a union… 🙁

    • veutoviper 12.1
      18 January 2019 at 12:36 pm

      Hahahaha – four letters using these A, Z, C, N ?

    • Psycho Milt 12.2
      18 January 2019 at 12:59 pm

      Wotcha do that for? Righties don’t like unions.

    • indiana 12.3
      18 January 2019 at 1:40 pm

      Did you get a photo of the union organiser holding a gun to your head as you signed the forms?

      • Robert Guyton 12.3.1
        18 January 2019 at 1:45 pm

        And did you silently vow never to accept any of the benefits your union might provide?

      • Puckish Rogue 12.3.2
        18 January 2019 at 3:30 pm

        Not going to lie but part of it was if all my section is in and I’m not…well self preservation trumps all

    • Robert Guyton 12.4
      18 January 2019 at 1:41 pm

      And you’ll be card-carrying, comrade?

    • Sacha 12.5
      18 January 2019 at 2:23 pm

      The League of Gentlemen Adventurers is a progressive union. Chums will be forgiving.

    • Dennis Frank 12.6
      18 January 2019 at 2:41 pm

      Practice saying “Solidarity, comrade!” After a while the inevitable bursting into laughter may fade away… 😎

      • Puckish Rogue 12.6.1
        18 January 2019 at 3:34 pm

        Maybe it’s a new potential career for me, labour list MP Puckish Rogue has a good ring to it…maybe even the Greens 🙂

        • Dennis Frank 12.6.1.1
          18 January 2019 at 4:02 pm

          Anything with rogue in it would be too non-pc for Labour. Greens have traditionally been roguish. Younger Greens would probably have to google both words, and then organise focus groups to discuss those difficult concepts, before deciding if it could fit into any of the modish identity politics frames currently in fashion. Could possibly work via extending LGBT into LGBTPR. However extension of that formula is now a highly-competitive arena:

          “The term LGBTQ is advocated for use by The Association of LGBTQ Journalists when referring to topics regarding sexuality and gender identity for use by media in the United States, as well as some other English-speaking countries.”

          ” intersex people are often added to the LGBT category to create an LGBTI community.”

          “the Green Party of England and Wales uses the term LGBTIQ in its manifesto and official publications.”

          ” LGBTQIA is sometimes used and adds “queer, intersex, and asexual” to the basic term. Other variants may have a “U” for “unsure”; a “C” for “curious”; another “T” for “transvestite”; a “TS”, or “2” for “two-spirit” persons; or an “SA” for “straight allies”.”

          “Longer initialisms based on LGBT are sometimes referred to as “alphabet soup”.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

          So it’s a question of how souped-up u wanna get…

          • Puckish Rogue 12.6.1.1.1
            18 January 2019 at 4:14 pm

            Unfortunately I’m on a phone so I cant really give a reply it deserves (because I dislike typing on phones)

            • Dennis Frank 12.6.1.1.1.1
              18 January 2019 at 4:31 pm

              Fair enough, I’d be the same. Retired, I can take my time composing & typing long posts. Easy, having taught myself 10-finger typing in 1970 on my first wife’s mechanical typewriter & her book Teach Yourself Typing“!

          • bwaghorn 12.6.1.1.2
            18 January 2019 at 5:43 pm

            Douglas went pretty fucking rogue from what I can gather

          • WeTheBleeple 12.6.1.1.3
            18 January 2019 at 5:58 pm

            At least they’re learning their alphabet. Education helps.

    • Anne 12.7
      18 January 2019 at 4:26 pm

      lols.

      And they won’t eat you for breakfast. If you’re lucky they might make you breakfast.

      • veutoviper 12.7.1
        18 January 2019 at 4:38 pm

        Are you talking about the union?

        Or are you talking about the people in the workplace(s) that Puckish Rogue is now working in?

        LOLOL!

    • patricia bremner 12.8
      18 January 2019 at 4:47 pm

      Smart move

      • Puckish Rogue 12.8.1
        18 January 2019 at 5:56 pm

        The pitch from CANZ was more compelling and convincing than the pitch from the PSA

  13. marty mars 13
    18 January 2019 at 1:08 pm

    Wow. Respect to Michelle Duff for this hard hitting article.

    A budding sportsman treats a woman like an utter piece of trash with no condemnation, and less than two years later is being hailed as a hero in a national sports team.

    Are we all okay with this?

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/109964652/nz-cricket-should-end-its-shameful-silence-on-scott-kuggeleijn

    • Jilly Bee 13.1
      18 January 2019 at 5:38 pm

      My thoughts too marty mars. I read the article and started to feel more than a bit uneasy again about what went down during the court case. I’m a bit of a cricket tragic and also a Northern Districts fan and followed the case with more than a bit of interest. I have also known the defense counsel since he was in nappies and also followed his legal career. I am fully aware that he was simply doing his job in (successfully) defending his client, but my overwhelming thoughts are for the victim in this case being portrayed as nothing more than a slut. I do wonder how she is coping with life in general today – she must have been shattered as to how she was described. That T20 game at Eden Park was a rude reminder of what happened two years ago. I’m pretty strong on people who have either done their time or have been adjudged not guilty (I spent my early working life in a legal office) being given a second chance – hence my conflicted thoughts. I also came across the article on Facebook and stupidly had a look at some of the comments. Sadly the majority of commenters also thought the victim was a slut, or worse.

      • bwaghorn 13.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 5:48 pm

        They need to change how defence lawyers work . Disputing the charges is ok dragging plaintiffs into the mud is not .
        Judges have to stop these Grisham wannabes running riot.

      • marty mars 13.1.2
        18 January 2019 at 7:01 pm

        Yes so tough these cases and the victim must come first.

  14. ianmac 14
    18 January 2019 at 1:54 pm

    Simon used up dozens of questions to the Jacinda re the text from Hardcore. Now the message has been published:

    “”Myself and my friends and community wanted to pass on their respects and praise for the decision about Jan Antolik, Karoul Sroubek, he’s made a bunch of really bad decisions but he’s a good guy deep down, so thank you to Ian and yourself for giving him another chance,” the text from Hardcore said.”

    Wow! Incredible! Jacinda must be devastated by such a killing blow and Simon must be over the moon.

    After all it says just what she said it said and the timing was correct so now Simon will be able to…………um.. find another scooter to nag at.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12192532

    • Enough is Enough 14.1
      18 January 2019 at 2:15 pm

      Why was Jacinda being thanked?

      What did she do, or how did she intervene, in order to receive this text?

      • veutoviper 14.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 2:19 pm

        Nothing.

        Apart from being the PM. And knowing Richie Hardcore through his social crusade to reduce violence towards women, porn etc.

      • Sacha 14.1.2
        18 January 2019 at 2:20 pm

        Would not be the first time a citizen had no idea how govt works and who makes decisions.

      • Psycho Milt 14.1.3
        18 January 2019 at 3:08 pm

        Why was Jacinda being thanked?

        For being in charge of a government that did the right thing. I admit, this is probably a very difficult concept for Nat fanciers to get their heads around…

    • veutoviper 14.2
      18 January 2019 at 2:18 pm

      Wow indeed! (Wow seems to be the ‘in’ word here today!)

      It will be interesting to see what Bridges and friends’ response is to this. LOL.

    • mary_a 14.3
      18 January 2019 at 2:29 pm

      ianmac (14) … it will be a brief opportunity for Simon to warm up his croak, by gnashing his gums together at the beginning of the new Parliamentary year! Yawn … ho hum.

      I read the contents of the text. My interpretation is, it seems like a note of gratitude from Richie Hardccore and a community of people to the PM, after the fact when Ian Lees-Galloway granted Scroubek (or Shoebrick, as Simon calls him) residency, before further information came to light affecting that decision.

      Yes Jacinda was correct and she didn’t respond to the text as she stated. She was telling the truth.

      • Anne 14.3.1
        18 January 2019 at 4:34 pm

        It was obvious at the time she was telling the truth, but the Nats are so often unprincipled themselves when it comes to telling the truth, that they couldn’t conceive of a political counterpart actually telling the truth.

        Oh and so nicely timed too. 🙂

    • ianmac 15.1
      18 January 2019 at 2:53 pm

      Perfect indeed Poisson. And there was not a single error in it. Perfection

    • Dennis Frank 15.2
      18 January 2019 at 4:10 pm

      Very zen, even for 1973. I wonder if it’s the first recorded instance of an academic demonstrating a sense of humour? 😎

  16. Jenny - How to get there? 16
    18 January 2019 at 6:40 pm

    ‘

    “We are living in an age, where activists must become politicians,
    And politicians must become activists”.

    None lives this reality more than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

    • Jenny - How to get there? 16.1
      18 January 2019 at 7:43 pm

      ‘
      All politics is pressure

      Clair McCaskell former Senator for Missouri and MSNBC political commentator:

      Beginning @ 9:42 minutes

      It’s Mitch McConnell he has been looking at his shoes, and hiding under his desk from day one.
      Remember he got a 100 votes for a bill to get the funding through, a 100 votes, unanimous in the Senate, Mitch McConnel did that because he got an agreement….

      …but then Rush Limburgh, and Ann Coulter got on their shows, and then you know, gave him what for. And then he reversed course. He backed up the truck, and said “No, I won’t sign it”.

      So Mitch knew from the beginning that this was going to have a bad ending. So Mitch’s goal was very simple, – ‘I don’t want to be anywhere near this’. So if your remember, he immediately started saying, ‘This is about the Democrats and the President’ – ‘This is about the Democrats and the President’. And you have got to give him this, polling shows that only about 5, to 6, or 7% are blaming the Republicans in Congress, they’re blaming Trump. And what Mitch McConnell is doing is trying to protect his members, those who are up for election in 2020 in tough states, he doesn’t want them to have to take this vote, because he knows they’re going to have a tough road to run, in terms of winning in 2020.

      If we don’t put more pressure on him, and I applaud what the Congresswomen did today, we all need to be putting pressure on him.

      If Mitch McConnell wanted to get this done, it could be done tomorrow…… 

    • Draco T Bastard 16.2
      18 January 2019 at 8:56 pm

      No.

      We’re living in the age where everyone needs to become a politician and have a direct say in the running of their nation and country.

      That’s what self-governance means.

      Unfortunately, the politicians have persuaded us that them making decisions is our decision.

  17. Dennis Frank 17
    18 January 2019 at 6:51 pm

    Trump’s ex-lawyer Cohen apparently hired a fundamentalist christian infotech expert to rig political polls in favour of Trump. Unlikely to be due to a journalist tripping on LSD: https://www.wsj.com/articles/poll-rigging-for-trump-and-creating-womenforcohen-one-it-firms-work-order-11547722801

    “Liberty is one of the largest Christian universities in the world and the largest private non-profit university in the United States, measured by student enrollment.” [Wikipedia]

    Cohen claims Trump asked him to do it. Guiliani says he didn’t. The resulting attempt to rig the two online polls (CNBC & Drudge Report) was apparently unsuccessful.

    “Emily Jane Fox, senior reporter for Vanity Fair, talks with Rachel Maddow about the Wall Street Journal reporting that Michael Cohen paid the CIO of Liberty University to rig online polls in favor of Donald Trump, and reports that Cohen has a document proving Trump knew about the payment.” https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/cohen-has-proof-trump-knew-of-payment-to-rig-online-polls-v-f-1428083267803

    If true, impeachment of Trump is likely. Cue Pence & Pompeo for fundamentalist takeover in the US. Successful only if the rest of the establishment permits…

  18. Dennis Frank 18
    18 January 2019 at 8:11 pm

    “House Intelligence Committee Chairman and frequent Trump foil Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) also weighed in on the report, tweeting that the allegation of subornation of perjury by the president “is among the most serious to date.” “We will do what’s necessary to find out if it’s true,” Schiff wrote online.

    “If the @BuzzFeed story is true, President Trump must resign or be impeached,” tweeted Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas), who sits on the Intelligence committee. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/democrats-trump-obstruction-of-justice-1110673

    Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) called on special counsel Robert Mueller to brief members of Congress on potential evidence of the claims against the president. “Listen, if Mueller does have multiple sources confirming Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress, then we need to know this ASAP,” Murphy tweeted. “Mueller shouldn’t end his inquiry, but it’s about time for him to show Congress his cards before it’s too late for us to act.”

    I get the sense that this combination will break big tomorrow. If Mueller is paying attention, he’d be a fool not to make a few phone calls to key players.

    • Anne 18.1
      18 January 2019 at 8:41 pm

      I get the impression there is going to be a plethora of films and docudramas about the unprecedented (almost) dramas in America, Britain, Europe, China etc. over the next year or two and beyond. In fact I expect they are already on the drawing boards of the world’s top film companies.

      Might pay to order in the popcorn now before the popcorn makers can’t keep up with demand.

      • Dennis Frank 18.1.1
        18 January 2019 at 9:45 pm

        Yeah, probably. I suspect the next three days leading up to the full moon will bring things to a head in the US elite in-fighting scene. There’s no way to tell if he has reached his use-by date. That depends on his utility to key players in the deep state. Political theatre is an essential distraction from the reality of governance and he provides that more effectively than any president yet.

        Pelosi is impressive in her collusion with the shutdown, so it seems that lack of obvious governance is necessary for the powers that be. They need to make Trump seem a genuine rebel, in order to con the alt-right into believing that they’re getting traction. The old puppet show routine.

        Yet the Mueller thing is looking less of a sham than before. When Trump has to be taken out, M will be told to make his move. Such scenarios apply, but it’s all conjectural from our perspective! I have no idea why the powers that be would seek a fundamentalist president. Perhaps playing the antique christian card is viewed by those ensconced in impregnable permanent positions at the top of the primary elite groups as necessary, after agreeing that traditional western values are part of the recipe for making America great again.

        • Anne 18.1.1.1
          19 January 2019 at 9:45 am

          Perhaps playing the antique christian card is viewed by those ensconced in impregnable permanent positions at the top of the primary elite groups as necessary, after agreeing that traditional western values are part of the recipe for making America great again.

          Well, if that’s true then it means the “primary elite groups” are as nutty as their president so – no hope then.

          • Dennis Frank 18.1.1.1.1
            19 January 2019 at 9:54 am

            Two things we can do: always look on the bright side, and hope for the best. My tendency is to reserve judgment when things aren’t clear. We don’t live there, and other western countries will always be a brake on their brand of irrationality. Follow your bliss… 😊

            • Anne 18.1.1.1.1.1
              19 January 2019 at 9:59 am

              OK. I’ll be off sometime soon for a blissful soak in the cool, calming waters of the sparkling Waitemata.

            • veutoviper 18.1.1.1.1.2
              19 January 2019 at 10:32 am

              Just saw this conversation in passing – in particular, your comment about not knowing why the powers that be would seek a fundamentalist president, and about playing the “antique christian card”.

              Although it is many decades ago, I lived in Washington DC in my teens for almost seven years and my experience and impressions then – and still now – are that religion plays a much bigger part in general life in the US than here in NZ; and in the case of Christianity, fundamentalism is one of the strongest streams of this, particularly in the South and in the African American community. A lot of votes there … Similarly, in places like New York, Washington DC, Los Angeles (and also other pockets such as Minneapolis), Judaism is a major part of the religious community and also very influential in community and political affairs.

              I am enjoying your comments on the ongoing Trump saga, Dennis, as I don’t have the fortitude etc to plow through the myriad of media reporting, so thanks for your summaries. My memory of compulsory US Civics courses* at high school is pretty dim these days, but Andre’s comments/clarifications appear to be on the ticket such as his one to you on OM 19 Jan this morning. Not a criticism of your takes, but IIRC Andre is from California or is still able to vote there. I think this was mentioned recently …

              * If I had my way, we would have similar here.

              • Dennis Frank …
                19 January 2019 at 11:27 am

                Yes, I’ve long been aware of the anomalous position of the USA in respect of the decline of christianity in western countries since the sixties. The brouhaha that blew up over Lennon’s `beatles are now bigger than Jesus ‘ observation & public mass burning of their vinyl albums & 45s was the early signal of that!

                My point is more in regard to replacement of secular presidents by a fundamentalist. Someone who actually believes in the Armageddon prophecy, ascension, rapture, Satan etc. Lip service paid to christianity by the other presidents seems irrelevant.

                As regards Andre’s structural view in relation to my principled view, that just reflects the basic schism between democracy as ideal and the institution of it in any country. What we often find underlies other disagreements about democracy onsite here and elsewhere. Since more folks are influenced by the ideal than the technicalities, the numbers support my view, even though the law supports his!

                • veutoviper …
                  19 January 2019 at 11:40 am

                  “As regards Andre’s structural view in relation to my principled view, that just reflects the basic schism between democracy as ideal and the institution of it in any country.”

                  Agreed, but the institution of it in any country IS the reality for that country – and change cannot be made without recognising the reality and working to change that particular reality.

                  Since more folks are influenced by the ideal than the technicalities, the numbers support my view, even though the law supports his!”

                  I am very tempted to also ask you to provide proof of this statement but I have a lot of other real things to get on with … so will leave that discussion for another day. LOL

  19. Eco Maori 19
    19 January 2019 at 9:45 am

    The Ion Age is just starting I say that its about time the shackles have beed thrown off this amasing clean technology imposed on it by the oil barons

    Silent and Simple Ion Engine Powers a Plane with No Moving Parts
    Researchers fly the first atmospheric aircraft to use space-proven ionic thrust technology
    Behind a thin white veil separating his makeshift lab from joggers at a Massachusetts Institute of Technology indoor track, aerospace engineer Steven Barrett recently test-flew the first-ever airplane powered with ionic wind thrusters—electric engines that generate momentum by creating and firing off charged particles.
    Using this principle to fly an aircraft has long been, according even to Barrett, a “far-fetched idea” and the stuff of science fiction. But he still wanted to try. “In Star Trek you have shuttlecraft gliding silently past,” he says. “I thought, ‘We should have aircraft like that.
    Thinking ionic wind propulsion could fit the bill, he spent eight years studying the technology and then decided to try building a prototype miniature aircraft—albeit one he thought was a little ugly. “It’s a kind of dirty yellow color,” he says, adding that black paint often contains carbon—which conducts electricity and caused a previous iteration to fry itself.Still, Version 2 had worked, and Barrett and his colleagues published their results Wednesday in Nature. The flight was a feat others have tried but failed, says Mitchell Walker, an aerospace engineer at Georgia Institute of Technology who did not work on the new plane. “[Barrett] has demonstrated something truly unique,” he says. Ion thrusters are not a particularly new technology; they already help push spacecraft very efficiently—but they are a far cry from rockets or jets, and normally nudge spacecraft into place in orbit. They have also propelled deep-space probes such as Dawn on missions to the Asteroid Belt. In the near-vacuum of space, ion thrusters have to carry an onboard supply of gas that they ionize and fire off into the relative emptiness to create thrust. When it comes to moving through Earth’s thick atmosphere, however, “everyone saw that the velocity [from an ion thruster] was not sufficient for propelling an aircraft,” Walker says. “Nobody understood how to go forward Ka kite ano links below .

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/silent-and-simple-ion-engine-powers-a-plane-with-no-moving-parts/

  20. Eco Maori 20
    19 January 2019 at 10:16 am

    I say the 21’s century communication device is awsome but to much of anything is bad so monitored time for the tamariki is the correct way to manage it. As for what one puts up on social media if you don’t mind the Papatuanuku seeing it then go a head because the world gets to see your data on the net and its is saved the data will always beable to be retrieved. We don’t have a facebook page but only because the sandflys have been hounding me for years if not we would have some photos up of our whano. Now one can get a good education from the internet that is unbiest and thats good just about any subject is on the net I envey our tamariki we did not even have a TV .
    The Kids (Who Use Tech) Seem to Be All Right
    A rigorous new paper uses a new scientific approach that shows the panic over teen screen time is likely overstated
    Social media is linked to depression—or not. First-person shooter video games are good for cognition—or they encourage violence. Young people are either more connected—or more isolated than ever.
    Such are the conflicting messages about the effects of technology on children’s well-being. Negative findings receive far more attention and have fueled panic among parents and educators. This state of affairs reflects a heated debate among scientists. Studies showing statistically significant negative effects are followed by others revealing positive effects or none at all—sometimes using the same data set
    A new paper by scientists at the University of Oxford, published this week in Nature Human Behaviour, should help clear up the confusion. It reveals the pitfalls of the statistical methods scientists have employed and offers a more rigorous alternative. And, importantly, it uses data on more than 350,000 adolescents to show persuasively that, at a population level, technology use has a nearly negligible effect on adolescent psychological well-being, measured in a range of questions addressing depressive symptoms, suicidal ideation, pro-social behavior, peer-relationship problems and the like. Technology use tilts the needle less than half a percent away from feeling emotionally sound. For context, eating potatoes is associated with nearly the same degree of effect and wearing glasses has a more negative impact on adolescent mental health ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-kids-who-use-tech-seem-to-be-all-right/

  21. Eco Maori 21
    19 January 2019 at 10:55 am

    Women’s March to take to streets after controversy divides movement
    WAHINE you must keep fight for your EQUALITY the alt right will use any dirty tact tick to undermine this great wave of wahine fighting to be treated as a equal in the Papatuanukus society we need wahine to take there roll’s as leaders
    Just two years after leading the largest recorded protest in US history, the third annual Women’s March on Saturday is set to proceed under a cloud of controversy.

    Theater project lets women who accused Trump tell their stories
    Read more

    This year’s march is shaping up to be smaller and more splintered than before, after several major sponsors withdrew and local chapters disaffiliated from the central organization which leads it, following allegations of antisemitism.
    Leaders were slow to deny and condemn allegations they had made antisemitic comments, and recent reporting has revealed deep ties between top officials and the Nation of Islam, whose leader, Louis Farrakhan, is a notorious antisemite.
    Major progressive groups which sponsored the first march in 2017 have quietly withdrawn, including leading unions, environmental groups and women’s organizations. Of the many Jewish groups listed as partners in previous years, only a few remain. The Democratic National Committee, which had previously appeared on a list of 2019 Women’s March sponsors, recently disappeared too
    It’s a major blow for the movement that marked the beginning of the “resistance” in the wake of Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential upset, when hundreds of thousands descended on the National Mall in Washington DC, a mass demonstration roughly three times the size of Trump’s own inauguration.
    Experts called the 2017 Women’s March the largest single-day protest in recorded US history, with turnout around the country estimated in the millions, and top celebrities and politicians lending their star power to the event. It also presaged the coming of the powerful #MeToo movement which would reshape the culture around the treatment of women at work.

    The Resistance Now: Sign up for weekly news updates about the movement
    Read more

    This year, however, the showing is expected to be fractured.
    Following a protracted fight over the organization’s leadership, Vanessa Wruble, a Brooklyn-based activist who was pushed out of the organization in 2017, went on to help found another organization called March On, which emphasizes supporting local activists and denouncing antisemitism. ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/18/womens-march-2019-controversy-antisemitism

  22. Eco Maori 22
    19 January 2019 at 3:06 pm

    These are the sandflys that are wasting tax payer money spying on me interfearing in my life in every way they can dream of and there boss no they are braking the LAW. O that right the only laws that work for maori/minority cultures is the lock em up law the laws to bring them in line is the wealthy persons LAW.
    In 2009, Keith Locke discovered he had been spied on for more than fifty years, even while serving as an MP.
    In a letter sent to Mr Locke last year, SIS head Rebecca Kitteridge said the former MP had been described as a “threat” in speaking notes for an induction programme run by the agency since 2013.
    Mr Locke’s name was not always mentioned when staff ran the induction course, she said.
    Ms Kitteridge said she had asked for the comment on the slide to be changed immediately.
    The document suggested he was seen as a threat because he was a vocal critic of the service.
    “People who criticise the agencies publicly are exercising their right to freedom of expression and protest, which are rights that we uphold, and are enshrined in the Intelligence and Security Act 2017,” Ms Kitteridge said. ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/380449/sis-apologises-to-former-green-mp-for-past-treatment-as-a-threat

  23. Eco Maori 23
    19 January 2019 at 3:15 pm

    SIS just a name for the undercover sandflys who are just a branch of the police who spy on Kiwis thats the reality whano
    SIS ‘very intrusive’ in some requests for bank customer info
    New Zealand’s Security and Intelligence Service (NZSIS) has been found to be “very intrusive” in some of its requests to banks for customers’ information.
    The spy agency watchdog, Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Cheryl Gwyn, has released a report on a three month assessment of the service’s policy and practices of acquiring personal information from banks.
    She found that despite using voluntary disclosure requests, rather than getting official warrants to obtain the information, the voluntary aspect wasn’t always made clear.
    “Some of the past collection by the NZSIS would have constituted unreasonable searches contrary to the Bill of Rights,” Ms Gwyn said.
    The law was changed last year with the enactment of the Intelligence and Security Act 2017, which has resolved some of the issues identified, she said.
    The period surveyed was three months at the end of 2016/17, and there was a different law then under which the NZSIS would apply for warrants and volunatary disclosures. It looked at 13 case studies within the period Ka kite ano links below P.S Its obvious that gisborne man has a high possie it the SIS and because of this he and the rest of the fools live under a vail of scams and secrecy

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/378274/sis-very-intrusive-in-some-requests-for-bank-customer-info

  24. Eco Maori 24
    19 January 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Kia ora Newshub one has to be careful when in France at the minute. One never knows what can happen on the roads.
    Some people just like to get publicity and kicking the British guest in not on 2 wrong don’t make it correct. I seen heaps of lizards in Tauranga and Vags it’s cool that they are trapping the pest to protect the geckoes. The RSA Clubs should get into Esports that will attract the people into the club.
    I feel sorry for all of the people who are not getting paid because of trump wanting a wall they obviously don’t no what it’s like not having money and living paycheck to paycheck.
    It would be cool if Nga puhi could come together and get there settlement for there Mokopunas futures.
    Storm boy was a amazing film can remember the movie the story line is a bit hazzy it cool that there is a new movie being made of Storm boy sea birds to we need to respect all animals more than we do at the minute. Ka kite ano

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