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Open mike 19/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 19th, 2022 - 61 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

61 comments on “Open mike 19/06/2022 ”

  1. Ha!

    21 – 7!

    Take that from the Mainland!

    • Joe90 2.1

      Is the Children's Commissioner surplus to requirements?

      Read the fucking report and find out.


      • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.1

        Read the fucking report…

        And then listen to the the unwanted Children's Commissioner.


        Many years ago, after tens of phonecalls from me and a rap on the knuckles from a Judge, I contact the Children's Commissioner about the many failings of CYFS (Oranga Tamarki in a previous incarnation) regarding a baby in our care. They have a manual of what we as foster parents were obliged to do regarding children in our care… whilst CYFS themselves felt free to neglect even the most basic of their legal responsibilities.

        One phonecall to an unsurprised Children's Commission and finally things got moving on behalf of this child. CYFS finally had to do their job. No wonder the Government wants them gone.

        • Tricledrown

          The Children's commissioner has been sidelined ever since they were appointed no government has taken proper action to improve children's lives in NZ.So moving this role to another overburdened govt department is a sign that Labour don't want to improve children's lives either ,leave another govt dept cover it up by neglect.It cost's big money to fix the problem of Child abuse and neglect. Most caused by Poverty like intinerancy homelessness drugs and alcohol intregenerational abuse.National you know will do nothing but legislate , Labour looks like it has given up and wants to sweep the problem under the carpet.

        • Molly

          My view of CYFS was informed by my friends experience with her daughter, a permanent placement when she was around three. She had been in care since she was a few months old.

          My friends lawyer when processing the placement order, said that they would not go through with a placement order for their clients without placing an additional care order through the Family Court at the same time. Their experience over the years with CYFS, had made this an essential protection for both family and child. Needless to say this proved to be the case. A stressful Family Court situation, brought about by CYFS not following their own protocol lead to the Family Court judge saying the behaviour of the social workers could only be described as abusive towards the family.

          I also had the interesting experience of taking Te Reo classes with the local social workers, one evening a week for around four months. About ten CYFS frontline staff in all. Very quickly you could ascertain the competent and caring ones – they were still working when we arrived. They also could hold a reasonable conversation during the breaks. Unfortunately, they were the minority.

          Reviews should not only hold individuals to account, but result in implementing changes that can improve the delivery of support to our most vulnerable, and those supporting them.

          (My friend had the opportunity to challenge the actions of CYFS in court, because her mother offered her the $30,000 estimate in legal fees as a gift. Many are unable to access those kinds of funds. It took more than two years for the case to come in front of a judge, and was dismissed within the first day, as CYFS provided no evidence, and had not followed official policies. )

          The Children’s Commissioner role is necessary. If it needs to be strengthened and expanded to be effective, so be it.

          • RedLogix

            Very quickly you could ascertain the competent and caring ones – they were still working when we arrived. They also could hold a reasonable conversation during the breaks. Unfortunately, they were the minority.

            We have a close friend here in Australia who is a very experienced in the social and health care arena. She related much of this sort of thing to us at length. The root cause of much of this dysfunctional behaviour is the system they work in. The are constantly put in positions where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Every choice they make carries the real potential to blow up in their faces. Every day.

            Most people go into this work with the vision they will be able to help people and make the world a better place – and I admire and respect their desire to do so. They finish up however just trying to survive themselves.

            The core problem is they have been set an impossible task, the idea that state money and resources alone can solve all problems. When the reality is that some people are broken beyond our ability to repair and all we can do is pick up after the carnage they leave in their wake.

            I will balance this by adding that it is also perversely true that the so-called caring professions so often attract some very toxic individuals indeed. I think it is because it gives them access to a pool of vulnerable victims. Institutions of all kinds have been way too slow in recognising this harsh truth. We largely have learned to screen for sexual predators, but other more extensive kinds of emotional and psychological abusers still slip through undetected.

            • Molly

              There were some very impressive and competent individuals working as social workers. There also appeared to be some (as in all industries) clock watchers who didn't appear to be burnt out, just not invested in outcomes at all.

              This was a few years ago, when children in care were being put into motels at really young ages. When I asked how they were managing to provide adult supervision for those children in that situation, one worker replied "There's a security guard at the motel, what more do they need?"

              She was the same worker that instigated the case against my friend. Why? Because after years of taking her daughter to child psychologists and assessments at the behest of CYFS, and getting official diagnoses of severe conditions such as FAS and PTSD, along with mental impairment – CYFS did not want to provide the support they were required to under the care order that had been issued at the beginning.

              Those who manage to work within such a system with integrity and effectiveness deserve all the accolades we can award them. But until the system itself is functioning well, I believe we need some form of oversight – such as the Children's Commissioner.

              • RedLogix

                Fair points. It seems I can only be grateful I have never had first hand experience with the system.

                • Molly

                  A regrettable consequence is that some who have witnessed the infliction of harm by CYFS, will be reluctant or will avoid calling for their support if they suspect a child is in danger.

                  So many ways to fail children when a system is not fit for purpose.

          • Rosemary McDonald

            Unfortunately, they were the minority.

            After some years of association and over 60 emergency and short term placements there was only one social worker from a stable of about fifty in our local office we felt it was safe (for the children and ourselves) for us to deal with. One. Dewy-eyed with the ink still wet on whatever qualification they had achieved through whichever centre of learning, they thought they had the necessary knowledge and experience. They didn't. We were stroppy and vocal and reasonably well educated (we had RTFM) and had an unwavering expectation that they would put the child first. Other foster parents weren't. At least one child died.

          • Belladonna

            We also have a family-connection story.

            Totally dysfunctional mother (drugs, alcohol, crime), with a roster of boyfriends, among whom were the fathers of her 3 children (3 different fathers).

            When OT finally decided they had to remove the children from her care – after spending 5 years and 10s if not 100s of thousands on trying to remedy her situation and improve her parenting – it was only because family brought it to their attention that her latest partner had a conviction for child sexual abuse – and that both of the girls were showing signs of being abused.

            There was a family connection (cousin) – stable home, stable relationship – who was prepared to take the older 2 girls – now showing behavioural dysfunction – with OT support for counselling, etc. A different family member (on his father's side) was prepared to take the young boy.

            OT wouldn't agree to the placement of the 2 girls – even though it was a blood relation, because it wasn't the 'right kind of family' (i.e. they weren't Maori). Mum had no Maori blood, and the 2 different fathers (neither of whom were on the scene) were both Maori in some degree. Placement of the boy wasn't a problem – it was a Maori family.

            Consequently, the 2 girls have been in and out of foster care for the last 7 or so years – and present with severe behaviour issues and learning delays. The cousin has tried – but you can't provide stability with occasional visits. They're now early teens, and basically there is no hope for any form of normal childhood.

            There is no way in hell, that OT placed the needs of those two little girls at the centre of their decision-making (as they are supposed to do).

            I have only contempt for the numerous social workers involved in this case.

            • Molly

              Another direct story is from one of my relatives, who noticed one of her fifteen year old male student’s change in personality after he moved in with his uncle. Informed by his friends that he was being sexually abused, she informed CYFS. Despite multiple follow-ups and several months CYFS had not contacted her or the student.

              The day before this young man committed suicide, the CYFS staff member she spoke to said the investigation was regarded as low priority and added:

              "This boy is almost 16, how do you know the relationship isn't consensual?"

              • Belladonna

                Utterly despicable.

                And there will have been no consequences. Even if they were censured by the Coroner (probably 3 years later), it will be brushed off as 'needing more support' or 'policies have changed' (even though they haven't) or 'lessons have been learned'

                I'm starting to side more and more with TPM that OT is completely dysfunctional – and it needs to be abolished and a new ministry (with none of the senior people re-employed) replacing it.

                I don't agree with them on the 'mandate' that new Ministry should have (the health and wellbeing of children should be the priority, not their parental or cultural connection) – but OT is utterly incapable of change.

            • Rosemary McDonald

              This story could be that of so many of the children we cared for it provokes actual physical pain. That so many adults can do so much damage to so many children is beyond criminal.

              There was talk yesterday on here about why some of us are so concerned about the trans thing…fighting against not only the ideology but the terribly harmful medical interventions that (some of us believe) amounts to abuse.

              'There are more important issues!!!' they cried, '…stop banging on about this…' 'Climate change!!!' 'Ukraine!!!' 'Covid!!!' Etc.

              To be brutally honest…the human race deserves to be obliterated from this planet.

              We will never, ever, (or enough of us anyhow) change our ways long enough to make the raising of healthy, happy children our absolute priority, and the fundamental reason for our time on this planet.

              If enough had come even close to this, most of those other 'more important' issues would cease to exist.

      • Belladonna 2.1.2

        One wonders what it takes to get through to Sepuloni.

        Or, if this is the case of a Minister being captured by her Ministry? A Ministry which has been regularly criticised by the Children's Commissioner – and is highly motivated to remove the independence of the role.

        I have yet to find a single voice in support of this change.

        When everyone – from the Children's Commissioners (past and present) to Save the Children and VOYCE – is presenting with *significant* concerns over the new structure – especially the loss of independence – surely the Minister needs to take note of the voices raised in opposition.


        You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. By all means provide a panel to support the Commissioner, beef up the funding and enhance the investigative aspect of the role. But you can do all that with an Independent Children's Commissioner.

        • joe90

          One wonders what it takes to get through to Sepuloni.

          Kelvin Davis is the Minister responsible for OT.

          • Belladonna

            Yes, indeed. And Carmel Sepuloni is the minister responsible for MSD – who have a close relationship with OT – and are also frequently criticised by the Children's Commissioner. As is the Ministry of Justice and the Police (neither of which have Sepuloni as a minister)

            Is that a reason for her to refuse to listen to any of the independent (or semi-independent) voices on this issue?

            • joe90

              for MSD – who have a close relationship with OT

              Do tell?

              • Belladonna

                How about you do your own research……

                • joe90

                  Researching the veracity or otherwise of your assertion is up to me?

                  • Belladonna

                    Setting aside your obsession over the minutiae of the relationships between MSD and OT.

                    Do you actually think that dis-establishing an independent Children's Commissioner (which is strongly opposed by all other independent voices in this field), is a good move?

                    And, if so, Why?

                  • Belladonna

                    I think you've missed the (critically important) word Independent.

                    And still waiting to hear why you think that all of the independent voices disagreeing with the Government on this issue should be disregarded.

                    Do you just uncritically believe that Sepuloni is right, and everyone else is wrong?

          • Belladonna

            Here you go. Evidence of the Children's Commissioner being highly critical of MSD (and the Labour Government as a whole).


            I don’t necessarily agree with the Children’s Commissioner in this instance.

            But, the whole point of an independent commissioner, is that s/he is free to criticise the Government of the Day, and has a platform and status/mana from which to do so.

  2. Blade 3

    Blues fan? Or no milk for your cornies? I forgot it was a done deal

    • Joe90 3.1

      They was robbed. The pig islanders had their line-out calls.

    • Puckish Rogue 3.2

      It was a sham final anyway, no Highlanders = no true final

      • Tricledrown 3.2.1

        The Highlanders put up a brave fight but in reality money talks and The highlanders don't have the money to attract enough of the better players.

        • Puckish Rogue

          As a fair and impartial Otago supporter I believe every single decision that went against them was due to biased and incompetent referees.

          Every. Single. Decision

          I mean sure since the game went professional the lure of Otago University for players has become less important and ok the population and money is less than they could get elsewhere but no its the refs

          • Tricledrown

            Gordon Hunter would be proud of you PR. The Crusaders rightfully won they managed to keep the pressure on for a full 80 mins both on defence and attack.If the Allblacks want another World Cup Scott Robinson will deliver.

            • Puckish Rogue

              I'm really surprised that Ian Foster was made coach.

              Scott Robertson has won everything, Joseph and Brown can take underperforming and/or weak teams and make them win, Dave Rennie won with the Chiefs (something Foster couldn't) yet Foster is ABs coach

              Go figure

  3. Puckish Rogue 4


    I did not expect this series to go the way it has, I certainly didn't expect NZ to lose after racking up 550 runs in the first innings but thats the way it goes when supporting the Black Caps, the rough with the smooth indeed

    I think its fair to say that over the last season or so the selections have been interesting to say the least

    Attempting to create a spin bowling all rounder has been an abject failure:

    Mitchell Santner, Rachin Ravindra and Michael Bracewell have all been used to try to fit in a spinner who can bat and while hes only played one test a FC batting average of 33 and a FC bowling average of 47 doesn't bode well for his future

    Its pretty obvious that NZ Cricket want another Dan Vettori but they seem to have forgotten that Vettori came in as a bowler first and worked on his batting to the point that he averaged 40 in the number 8 position

    If only there were decent spinners in NZ that we could use for an extended run, not a one of game every now and then, in the team and maybe they could work on their batting



    If only

    Mind you this guy should hopefully be getting his passport in order:


    Now to the bowling selections…what is the story with Neil Wagner and his non selection


    Hes fifth on the all time wicket takers list with a better average and strike rate than both Boult and Southee yet hes passed over for Henry?

    I believe we missed Wagners bowling, his attitude (the guy bowls with broken toes and fingers) and just all round never give up mind set



    Hopefully Young can get over the bad luck he seems to attract, I'm not convinced that hes a better option than Conway but I'd like to be proven wrong

    All Mitchell needs to do is study a bit of Ewen Chatfields old tapes and concentrate on keeping his bowling tight and building the pressure for the other bowlers to exploit and the number six or seven position would be his for as long as he wants it

    Blundell is having a good year so maybe hes turned the corner and can bat at number six, if he can that creates and extra place for NZ to use…preferably for a spinner

    Maybe the coach has gone as far as he can and its time for new blood and new thinking, it certainly hasn't hurt England, though the real test is the Ashes…

    • Tricledrown 4.1

      PR agreed NZ came close but injuries weakened our line up Wagner could have made the difference but the coach must know something that the fans don't see.I am sure he would have scored runs and taken a couple of wickets which is all that was in this game.maybe Wagner is no good on English wickets.It wasn't a bad display by NZ if Kyle had been able to bowl NZ would have won.England are relying on bowlers who are coming to the end of their careers and are one injury from retiring. Thats why they weren't taken on the West Indies Tour knowing the World champs were next.The NZ cricket team can take a lot of positives out of this without Jamieson and Williamson NZ almost won.

  4. Puckish Rogue 5

    Can this be stopped before it gets this bad in NZ?

    I think it can, it just needs more spotlight on how its managed. The numbers in NZ are small:


    'About 30 to 40 of the 10,000-odd current New Zealand prisoners identify as transgender, Corrections said. Or those, six are serving time in the country's three women's prisons: Christchurch Women's Prison, Arohata Prison and Auckland Region Women's Corrections Facility, she said.'

    Its from three years but probably still reasonably accurate, I’m just not convinced that Corrections head office and whatever government is in will take the neccasary steps required to ensure whats happening in the UK and USA won’t happen here

    • Anker 5.1

      Thanks for posting the link about the alleged sexual assault of women prisoners by a trans identified woman (report dates from 2019). To my knowledge there has been no follow up re the outcome of this case. What happened? Was the complaint upheld?

      Has anyone seen any follow up about this?

      Yesterday there was a discussion on TS about why are we posting about this stuff i.e. our concerns about how gender ideology is impacting on women and girls, when its only happening overseas………

      My answer is we don't know how much of this is happening in NZ beccause the msm fails to report on these issues. The only reporting is done is a biased way.

      The media need to report on this stuff. We need to know exactly how gender ideology is impacting women, girls and womens spaces and we need to act now to prevent making the mistakes that countries such as the US and the UK have made

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1

        Its like Orwells 1984, you don't need to have any laws because the population is self-governing

  5. Puckish Rogue 6


    Smell your poop, bigots!

    (Is this serious?)

  6. Anker 7

    I completely agree with Ian Powells take on the Health workforce crisis and how the govt re structure will do very little to resolve these issues

  7. Ad 8

    She's not my electorate, she's not my party, but Holy Mackerel Chloe Swarbrick is a good MP politician.

    Chlöe Swarbrick wants aerial cannabis raids scrapped (1news.co.nz)

    She generates more headlines every week than James Shaw and Marama Davidson do in a year.

  8. joe90 9

    Looks like the Poles have had enough of Russia's near-border targeting of Western Ukraine and threats to Poland for their part in resupplying Ukraine.

    If Russia continues to shell Ukraine's border areas with Poland, Warsaw could take over air defenses over the western regions.

    This was stated by Brigadier General, former head of the Polish National Security Bureau Stanislaw Kozei in an interview with Onet, Censor.NET reports with reference to UNIAN.



  9. New-ish Cassetteboy mix (well, a few weeks late), this guy is a cultural treasure

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