Open mike 21/08/2022

69 comments on “Open mike 21/08/2022 ”

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1. joe90 1

   21 August 2022 at 8:00 am

   Pisses me off that the neo-nazi and anonymous key board thugs held such sway that PM Marin felt she had to appease the wowsers. I doubt a male politician would have been been pressured to do the same.

   https://twitter.com/meghamohan/status/1560999055769030656

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/19/finlands-pm-sanna-marin-takes-drug-test-after-videos-show-her-drinking-and-dancing
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1

     21 August 2022 at 10:11 am

     That is actually pretty sad. And feeling she HAD to take a drug test because of alt right scum….fark !
   • alwyn 1.2

     21 August 2022 at 2:09 pm

     Is it really that different to how Boris Johnson was treated by his opponents?
     • arkie 1.2.1

       21 August 2022 at 2:14 pm

       Is the rest of Finland under lockdown measures while their PM parties?

       No, that is the difference.
     • Tricledrown 1.2.2

       21 August 2022 at 2:36 pm

       Alwyn borish Boris lied and continued to lie
       • alwyn 1.2.2.1

         21 August 2022 at 4:22 pm

         My dear chap (or chapess).

         He was a successful politician who rose to a high position.

         Of course he lied. Everyone of them who does as well as that lies on occasion. You surely cannot tell me you are surprised?
         • Sacha 1.2.2.1.1

           21 August 2022 at 4:50 pm

           Are you saying the PM of Finland has lied somehow?
           • Incognito 1.2.2.1.1.1

             21 August 2022 at 4:57 pm

             Of course, she has! She claims to be 36 but she’s behaving like she’s in her mid-20s. Something doesn’t add up here!
         • Bruce 1.2.2.1.2

           21 August 2022 at 4:57 pm

           ' Projection ','

           Projection bias is a feature in human thinking where one thinks that others have the same priority, attitude or belief that one harbours oneself, even if this is unlikely to be the case.'

           https://www.optimizely.com/insights/blog/avoid-projection-bias/
     • joe90 1.2.3

       21 August 2022 at 5:27 pm

       Boris deserves being treated poorly.
       • alwyn 1.2.3.1

         21 August 2022 at 6:11 pm

         Well, after looking at that I would have to say that if Boris had said that he had not been dancing I would believe him. That was something but I certainly wouldn't call it dancing.

         Anyone that can behave like that certainly does deserve to be treated poorly.
2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2

   21 August 2022 at 9:25 am

   Prominent Covid-19 conspiracy influencer Chantelle Baker, who was a mainstay of the anti-Government protest at Parliament earlier this year, has lost her Facebook page ahead of this week's planned repeat protest.

   She suggested, incorrectly, that Antifa was behind the fires and violence on March 3 when the protest was broken up. Since then, she has posted in support of Russia's war in Ukraine and continued to share information in conflict with public health advice.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/super-spreader-false-claims-banned-facebook

   Barely three minutes after it was first posted, Baker saw Ben’s comment and read it out loud to her more than 18,000 viewers. “Cops started it, they pushed over a generator it caught a tent on fire,” she announced. “Wow.”

   A minute later, talking to a friend at the protest, Baker repeated the claim. From this point on, the reality, as far as Baker was concerned, is that police started the fire.

   her faith in the “police started it” narrative appeared unshaken. “Yes, we can confirm the police started the fire, they’ve got it all on record,” Baker said a while later in reply to a query in her comments. She would “confirm” this “fact” many more times during her livestream.

   https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/03-03-2022/when-misinformation-spreads-like-fire

   Dangerous morons…..leading other morons.
   • Barfly 2.1

     21 August 2022 at 9:41 am

     For some people reality is optional – many times there are medications that can assist this but some choose their other reality. I suspect part of this choosing for some is that their lives have (to them) more importance, meaning and excitement as they become the main character in an epic dramatic story rather than a 'spear-carrier' in a mundane tale.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1

       21 August 2022 at 9:51 am

       For some people reality is optional

       Well thats pretty good ! And I "could" be ok with that. Problem is..the leaders of this particular shit…want to have an Alt-Right Alt-Reality.

       And shooting Men Women and Children in a NZ Mosque…is something to be proud of !! They are evil
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2

     21 August 2022 at 9:43 am

     What we are seeing here is a trend … which we've already seen in the US and it's being mimicked over here.

     "That's deliberate."

     Razzaq said there was a trend of white supremacists wanting take part in elections, such as boards of trustees, in order to bring their hate into the mainstream.

     "They want to normalise hate, as you see it nowadays where people start talking about it as if it's something normal.

     https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/white-supremacist-wants-school-board

     Several candidates around the South are either directly affiliated with, or have shared their support online for, the group Voices for Freedom.

     But they have been urged to keep those links quiet.

     In an August 9 email seen by the Otago Daily Times, Voices for Freedom co-founder Claire Deeks encouraged candidates not to disclose their affiliation with the group, which has also urged followers to make New Zealand "ungovernable".

     https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/concern-candidates-not-being-upfront

     All associates. white supremacist/nazi fanboy Arps……Deeks……

     Birds of a very revolting feather.
     • Barfly 2.2.1

       21 August 2022 at 2:50 pm

       I agree there are a large faction who are neo-fascist, christo fascist et cetera but there are also many who just took the 'wrong coloured pill' – the "It's not covid the government is using radiation weapons against us" crowd and it's many variants.

       One bunch is evil and the other crackers IMO.
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2.1.1

         22 August 2022 at 7:43 am

         One bunch is evil and the other crackers IMO.

         I'd just add…… easily and willingly led…. crackers.
   • mauī 2.3

     21 August 2022 at 12:52 pm

     Oh well at least the ODT admit that an alt-right, anti-vaccine, conspiracy theorist was providing more relevant and appealing coverage to the public than anything in the mainstream.

     "The Disinformation Project noted that Baker's Facebook Live broadcasts – although a "super spreader" of false claims – often had greater engagement than mainstream media during the previous Parliament protest."
     • Drowsy M. Kram 2.3.1

       21 August 2022 at 1:22 pm

       If those who find Baker's 'coverage' engaging would simply engage their brains…

       'Super spreader' of false claims banned from Facebook [21 Aug 2022]
       A recent report by independent research group The Disinformation Project noted that Baker's Facebook Live broadcasts – although a "super spreader" of false claims – often had greater engagement than mainstream media during the previous Parliament protest.

       She suggested, incorrectly, that Antifa was behind the fires and violence on March 3 when the protest was broken up. Since then, she has posted in support of Russia's war in Ukraine and continued to share information in conflict with public health advice.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018854128/a-conundrum-over-how-to-cover-the-conspiracists
     • Robert Guyton 2.3.2

       21 August 2022 at 1:48 pm

       mauī – are you presenting this information in support of your position??

       "although a "super spreader" of false claims – often had greater engagement than mainstream media "

       Seriously??

       Are you sincere in believing that these "false claims" are more relevant coverage???

       Please ease my anxiety
3. joe90 3

   21 August 2022 at 11:52 am

   I don’t think this is quite what they had in mind.

   Heh, the Russian woman still got a parade of her equipment on Khreshchatyk

   https://twitter.com/zaklyashtor/status/1560864536307064834

   https://twitter.com/zaklyashtor/status/1560899060445462529
4. joe90 4

   21 August 2022 at 12:59 pm

   Sure I've seen this dude in Mt Vic.

   https://twitter.com/nrken19/status/1560985498390302724
   • Poission 4.1

     21 August 2022 at 1:10 pm

     On the door at Theo's?
     • joe90 4.1.1

       21 August 2022 at 1:21 pm

       Probably El Matador on Manners St.
   • Mac1 4.2

     21 August 2022 at 1:40 pm

     Does he wear brown shoes, jeans and a sports coat and drink craft beer in Courtenay Place?
5. arkie 5

   21 August 2022 at 2:12 pm

   The Labour Party; undermining worker power and cowing to the interests of capital since 1984:

   The government will allow some sectors to pay skilled migrant workers less than the new median wage requirements in a bid to address workplace shortages across the country.

   …

   "We have worked urgently alongside industry to develop sector agreements for the aged care, seafood, meat processing, construction and snow and adventure tourism industries that will be put in place from today."

   …

   To address the shortage of casual workers more generally, the government would temporarily increase access to the Working Holiday Scheme which it said would allow 12,000 additional working holiday makers to come to the country.

   …

   Covid-19 had brough the world to a "standstill", Wood said, and that was particularly being felt by the hospitality and tourism sectors, which who traditionally relied on international workers.

   "Since our borders have fully reopened we are seeing the return of working holiday makers with approximately 4,000 already in-country and over 21,000 have had their application to work here approved," he said.

   "These changes will have a positive impact on the workforce, and will make the most of the increase in working holiday makers we expect to welcome during the peak summer season," he said.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473222/thousands-of-extra-workers-to-be-allowed-into-new-zealand
   • Barfly 5.1

     21 August 2022 at 2:36 pm

     1984 The party of Douglas, Prebble et cetera or when the Labour Party was hijacked by Randian cultists.

     2022 Unemployment at what 3.2%? 3.5%? If the hospitality and tourism sectors do pick up we will need some extra bodies and I imagine that most of the 'foreign' workers previously in those sectors left during 'max covid'. At least this government is not yet promoting shonky education courses to create 'transport managers' who then work as bus drivers et cetera.
     • arkie 5.1.1

       21 August 2022 at 2:43 pm

       Well…

       Christchurch Educated partnership manager Stefi Porter said the city would welcome 150 new foreign school students this week and 200 tertiary students next week.

       She said the region had 12,000 foreign students before the pandemic and it was not yet clear how many it might have next year.

       Porter said a lot depended on how quickly schools and other organisations could restart their systems for recruiting, enrolling and supporting international students but some Christchurch Educated members were getting a lot of applications.

       "It's already possibly pre-Covid levels. But it really depends on the provider and how they've been keeping active in the market, whether their target countries have shifted, whether they were able to provide programmes that still have post-study work rights which hugely affect certain markets," she said.

       …

       Arun Jacob has been recruiting students from India for New Zealand institutions for 20 years.

       He said there was a lot of interest from prospective students.

       "There has been a lot of pent-up demand over the last two years and New Zealand has always remained a very attractive destination for Indian students. We are working 24/7 to try and keep up with the demand," he said.

       …

       Jacob said Indian students appeared to be less focused on which institution to study at, and more on which course would lead to work and residence pathways.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473159/positive-signs-indian-students-still-find-nz-an-attractive-destination
       • Barfly 5.1.1.1

         21 August 2022 at 2:53 pm

         Ugh
       • pat 5.1.1.2

         21 August 2022 at 4:06 pm

         An additional 12,000 foreign students, hmmm…I hope they've accessed another 4000 homes from somewhere.
     • Visubversa 5.1.2

       21 August 2022 at 3:13 pm

       And shonky "business" courses that train "managers" for $2 stores.
   • Ad 5.2

     21 August 2022 at 2:38 pm

     Picked any grapes lately?
     • arkie 5.2.1

       21 August 2022 at 2:45 pm

       Have you?
       • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1

         21 August 2022 at 3:21 pm

         Ha!
       • Ad 5.2.1.2

         21 August 2022 at 3:33 pm

         Of course.

         If you haven't noticed, tens of millions of dollars of orders weren't fulfilled over summer, piles of apples were left on the ground in central Otago, Kiwifruit exports were down, and it was all going to happen again.

         So the government has acted.

         Mostly because people like you won't.
         • arkie 5.2.1.2.1

           21 August 2022 at 3:43 pm

           On your vineyard I presume.

           But you're right, it's largely mine and other workers fault.

           Won't someone think of the business owners. /s
         • uncookedselachimorpha 5.2.1.2.2

           21 August 2022 at 3:55 pm

           Orders were not fulfilled because the business owners wouldn't pay to have the work done.
           • Ad 5.2.1.2.2.1

             21 August 2022 at 4:07 pm

             There weren't enough locals who would accept that pay level, or pay by the bucket. There were a good few. There weren't enough. Sure it's a market failure – but that's why Wood has done what he's done.
             • Sacha …

               21 August 2022 at 4:48 pm

               What plans does the industry have to secure enough trained workers?
               • Ad …

                 21 August 2022 at 6:02 pm

                 It will take you 2 minutes to google to find out.

                 Industry training generally in agriculture is in total chaos because the government has decided to comprehensively re-nationalise the entire industry training sector.
                 • Descendant Of Smith …

                   21 August 2022 at 6:39 pm

                   Employers can't train someone to pick apples?
                 • DB Brown …

                   21 August 2022 at 7:05 pm

                   I've worked in floriculture, viticulture, horticulture, agriculture… apples, kiwis, grapes… picking, packing, pruning.

                   Half a day alongside another worker to learn any of that. Half a day, while on the job.
                 • Sacha …

                   21 August 2022 at 7:14 pm

                   I was hoping the industry might have some standards and approaches they could do for themselves, without any handouts.
           • Chess Player 5.2.1.2.2.2

             21 August 2022 at 5:54 pm

             Because then there wouldn't be sufficient, or any, profit.

             Better to write off the loss, than throw good money (and cashflow) after bad.
         • Descendant Of Smith 5.2.1.2.3

           21 August 2022 at 5:28 pm

           Apples rotting on the ground often means nothing but a PR exercise.

           1. Does the horticultural industry over-produce? If they don't, like other agricultural industries do to allow for some crops being taken out by inclement weather, then what happens when inclement weather takes a chunk of supply out – do they just let their suppliers down
           2. Did they actually have a market for those unpicked apples and if so where is the chorus of complaints from markets about their inability to deliver what they promised? I had heard there were lots of cancelled orders from overseas due to their economies not performing that well.
           3. Did they have ships to put them on to get them to market?
           4. Are they phasing out certain types of apples and replacing them with others and are some orchardists slower at adjusting then others?
           5. Why do they keep planting more orchards and vineyards in areas where there is a lack of labour?
           6. Were some apples destined for Russia and therefore became cancelled orders due to the embargo – I mean would you still pick them? I believe one grower who sent apples to Russia didn't get paid for them as due to the embargo the money couldn't come to NZ. For some reason they didn't send any more.
           7. How come lots of NZer's who applied for jobs in the orchards/vineyeards and packhouses were not taken on.

           "It follows union concerns that plenty of people are applying for jobs, but are waiting weeks for replies if they get them at all.

           Orchard owners have been calling for the government to allow in more seasonal workers from Pacific countries to help with the summer fruit harvest.

           Stephen Darling runs Darlings Fruit in Ettrick, Central Otago, growing mainly apples and apricots.

           He has had a large number of job applications, and said they did their best to get back to people as soon as they could.

           "Of those that we receive, we assess those and we respond back to those. We do background checks as best we can and we endeavour to select the people that we think are going to be best suited for the job, and not everyone is and unfortunately I think there's some misconceptions about horticultural work, about orchard work," Darling said.

           "That's why we do our best to make sure that people are suited to those roles."

           Summerfruit New Zealand chairman Tim Jones said the industry had been overwhelmed with applications after putting out a call for help with harvesting.

           But he agreed they should do better.

           "Growers could obviously be doing a better job and the message needs to go out to growers that really it is polite – at a minimum – to respond to the enquiries they're getting and to give people a little more information about what jobs are available, what the conditions are and when those jobs start."

           Martin Milne owns Cheeki Cherries which harvests about 100 tonnes of cherries across three orchards around Cromwell.

           https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432153/fruit-growers-doing-their-best-to-hire-suitable-nz-workers

           The point is is that the industry is very good at presenting the only issue they have around picking apples is local labour. It is much more complicated than that.
           • Ad 5.2.1.2.3.1

             21 August 2022 at 5:56 pm

             So many tiresome rhetorical questions.

             Yes they had export markets to go to. Yes there were ships to take them. Yes some crops were re-routed as you would expect – it's what a market does.

             This government has been warned for years that a lack of workers actually lowers the amount they can export.

             It goes back at least to 2018 well before COVID.

             Slim pickings: Worker shortage leaves apple farms frantic | RNZ News

             And 2019

             Apple industry could stop growing if Government doesn't address labour shortage | Stuff.co.nz

             Then 2020.

             Hawke's Bay apple growers pull up trees ahead of labour shortage – NZ Herald

             Then 2021.

             More apples to come, but no one to pick them (ruralnewsgroup.co.nz)

             Same for Kiwifruit in 2018 and even pushed the government to agree and react

             Kiwifruit worker shortage: Low wages, high living costs blamed – NZ Herald

             Started to generate some policy analysis by 2020:

             New Zealand’s seasonal labour shortage: why local workers aren’t enough – Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre

             Also hit vegetable production despite record prices

             Slim pickings – reporting the shortage of labour for fruit and veges | RNZ

             And of course it was the same for the wineries.

             Despite extra seasonal workers, uncertainty remains for wine industry ahead of winter pruning | Newshub

             And as a result exports in Kiwifruit were down.

             Kiwifruit sector prepares for season of uncertainty | Stuff.co.nz

             So were export levels from other crops.

             Labour shortage leads to $100 million drop in apple exports | Newshub

             This shortage is of course not particular to agriculture and is affecting the entire NZ economy.

             The worker shortage that will be everyone's problem – NZ Herald
           • Ad 5.2.1.2.3.2

             21 August 2022 at 6:00 pm

             I've responded properly but I needed to use multiple links so it's gone into Moderation.
             • Incognito …

               21 August 2022 at 6:02 pm

               sigh
               • Ad …

                 21 August 2022 at 6:05 pm

                 Of course, it's far better to provide the citations Incognito.
                 • Incognito …

                   21 August 2022 at 6:19 pm

                   Sorry, busy with work today; was only venting.
     • arkie 5.2.2

       21 August 2022 at 3:26 pm

       Anyway that’s what we have RSE workers for /s:

       The horticulture and winegrowing sector will have access to 1,600 more workers this season after the Government agreed to increase the Recognised Seasonal Employment Scheme (RSE) cap to 16,000, say Immigration Minister Kris Faafoi and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor.

       https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/boost-rse-numbers-help-hort-sector-grow

       These new sector agreements are for importing Nurses/care workers, seafood and meat workers, hospitality, tourism and construction workers, all bypassing the median wage requirements.

       How can local workers advocate for increase wages and improved conditions if this government is so keen to have them easily replaceable?
       • Ad 5.2.2.1

         21 August 2022 at 3:35 pm

         Local workers don't want that work and don't compete for it.

         Local workers have had the biggest wage and welfare increases in a decade.
         • arkie 5.2.2.1.1

           21 August 2022 at 3:41 pm

           You sound like Bill English.

           Local workers shouldn't be on welfare, and we'd be able to bargain for more increases if our 'Labour' party was on our side rather than the employers.
         • uncookedselachimorpha 5.2.2.1.2

           21 August 2022 at 3:56 pm

           With unemployment below 5%, there are millions of New Zealanders working. They can just find jobs with better pay and conditions than these business owners are willing to offer.
           • Ad 5.2.2.1.2.1

             21 August 2022 at 4:04 pm

             They can indeed.
         • uncookedselachimorpha 5.2.2.1.3

           21 August 2022 at 3:58 pm

           "Local workers don't want that work and don't compete for it. "

           You seem to be very confused about markets.

           In this case it is the employers who are not willing to compete for the labour they require.
           • Ad 5.2.2.1.3.1

             21 August 2022 at 4:05 pm

             It's both.

             And yes, cheap labour keeps our agri exports going.

             Those are the exports we make.
             • Sacha …

               21 August 2022 at 4:43 pm

               How are profit margins and dividends holding up?
               • Ad …

                 21 August 2022 at 5:59 pm

                 Most small businesses particularly in agriculture are in private hands so their results are not reported.

                 The general level of national business bankruptcies is reported as low – because this government has subsidised their wages for over 18 months, and propped up major parts of the economy such as housing and construction with over $60b of work.
               • Graeme …

                 21 August 2022 at 8:36 pm

                 In most farming outside dairy the current level of bitchiness could be said indirectly proportional to profitability. Know one recently retired farmer who's last wool payment was less than the shearing invoice. Not a happy camper, but made the retirement decision much easier. Surprisingly he had no trouble selling his farm for a good price.
   • uncookedselachimorpha 5.3

     21 August 2022 at 4:00 pm

     Agree – this is a disgraceful move by Labour. As you say, they haven't represented the interests of working people for a few decades now.
     • Chess Player 5.3.1

       21 August 2022 at 6:27 pm

       I think working people must be doing ok, if only 3 in 100 are currently looking for work?
       I’m pretty sure more than 3 in 100 businesses are looking for staff?
       • Incognito 5.3.1.1

         21 August 2022 at 6:31 pm

         The underutilisation rate is equally as important as the unemployment rate. It gives a broader measure of untapped capacity in the labour market.

         It stands at 9.2% for the June 2022 quarter.

         https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/underutilisation-rate/
6. Poission 6

   21 August 2022 at 3:22 pm

   Commerce 101

   https://twitter.com/DoombergT/status/1561071627823194112?cxt=HHwWgIC91fyXhaorAAAA
   • joe90 6.1

     21 August 2022 at 4:58 pm

     Trading’s closed for the long weekend. Will the eggs keep?
     • Poission 6.1.1

       21 August 2022 at 5:22 pm

       They had nothing left after putting up sign

       Due to Supply shortages limit is 2 doz per customer.
7. joe90 7

   21 August 2022 at 4:54 pm

   Did Alexander commit the mortal sin?

   The daughter of a close ally to Russia's President Vladimir Putin has reportedly been killed near Moscow.

   According to state media, Darya Dugina died after her car exploded in flames while she was driving home.

   It is thought that her father, the Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin who is known as "Putin's brain," may have been the intended target of the attack.

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62621509
   • joe90 7.1

     21 August 2022 at 6:49 pm

     Butter wouldn't melt.

     https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1561124106589900800
8. Obtrectator 8

   22 August 2022 at 10:45 am

   I watch hardly any TV these days, so I expect this is old news by now. All the same it was a bit of a shock to see Chris Luxon suddenly pop up in the middle of a YouTube video clip, maundering on about how necessary it is to get rid of this Labour government. The GE is still at least a year away. Who's financing this highly premature brainwashing electioneering?

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