Open mike 21/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:52 am, March 21st, 2014 - 165 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

165 comments on “Open mike 21/03/2014 ”

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  1. phillip ure 1
    21 March 2014 at 7:09 am

    day five of ‘withdrawals’ from years of heavy/daily-use of cannabis..

    ..symptoms..?

    ..s.f.a..

    ..and northland pot-users should know they are currently sweeping thru their back yards..

    ..so there will be the usual roadblocks/intimidation of locals..

    ..that they get every year at about this time..

    ..and i repeat:..why this costly exercise in futility..?

    ..why not just legalise/regulate/tax..

    ..what is the safest intoxicant of all..?

    ..and (as noted) i am currently in day five of ‘withdrawals’ from years of daily use of the stuff..

    ..and am still waiting for the ‘withdrawal’-effects to kick in..

    ..and imagine what a sick puppy i wd be..

    ..were i on day five stopping booze after such long/heavy daily-use..?

    ..and irony beyond irony..

    ..these fearless drug-warriors no doubt at the end of their days’ work ‘rooting out’ this least harmful of intoxicants..

    ..no doubt celebrated with a few cold-ones of the drug that causes the most damage in our country/society..

    (..it really is an upside-down world..alice..!..)

    • The Al1en 1.1
      21 March 2014 at 7:33 am

      I doubt very much you’re off the dope as you claim, but taking you at your word, what withdrawal symptoms did you expect to have as you begin to get used to dealing with reality and real feelings with no numbing agent?

      https://www.marijuana-anonymous.org/literature/pamphlets/detoxing-from-marijuana

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1
        21 March 2014 at 7:40 am

        I didn’t have any when I dropped marijuana. Still, at the time I was still on the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol. Felt the withdrawals when I gave those up.

        • The Al1en 1.1.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 7:44 am

          Some do have problems, some don’t, being the point of the link.
          Probably best we don’t don’t diminish the, for some, very real physical and psychological withdrawal effects and reduce them to a simple ‘meh’.

        • Tracey 1.1.1.2
          21 March 2014 at 8:19 am

          I used marajuana to offset social anxiety. I found the amount I had to drionk to achieve the same left me vomitting for days. I mainly used on the weekends. I discovered it, well began smoking it, when in my last year oif university. I noticed it began to affect my short term memory a couple of years later, especially during a presentation tot he 35 partners of my law firm. I cut back.

          I noticed no side effects other than my undiagnosed chemical imbalance related to seratonin was winning more on a daily basis.

          Prescription drugs however I noticed MAJOR differences when I reduced doses.

          I am amazed at how many people with mental health problems unilaterally lower or stop their medication. I think it points to the overall perception that it is a weakness to be on such medications. Who would stop taking their heart meds just because they started to feel fine? Most, if not all would attribute it to the drugs and keep taking them for fear of a fatal heart attack.

          I have probably digressed, sorry.

      • phillip ure 1.1.2
        21 March 2014 at 7:45 am

        so..i am lying..?..heh..!

        why the fuck would i..?

        ..when i have always been so open about my drug-use/history..

        ..and..’reality’..’real feelings’..’numbing agent’..?

        ..w.t.f. r u smoking..?

        ..and..like a beer do ya..?

        ..on any tranks/meds/energy-drinks/sleeping pills..?

        ..eh..?

        (and from yr link..)

        “..Most have only minor physical discomfort if any at all. .”

        (and..)

        “..By far the most common symptom of withdrawal is insomnia..”

        that’s bullshit..i am still sleeping like a baby..

        • The Al1en 1.1.2.1
          21 March 2014 at 7:49 am

          Anger and irritability are a symptom of cannabis withdrawal 😉 lol

          “The fourth most common symptom is anger. This can range from a slow burning rage to constant irritability to sudden bursts of anger when least expected: anger at the world, anger at loved ones, anger at oneself, anger at being an addict and having to get clean”

          • phillip ure 1.1.2.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 8:00 am

            so why am i still resolutely cheerful/laughing at the clowns/circus..?

            ..and how about answering the question about yr drug-use..?

            ..are you a cleanskin..?

            ..or are yr drug-habits legal..?

            ..eh..?

            • The Al1en 1.1.2.1.1.1
              21 March 2014 at 8:13 am

              To be fair, any one can claim any thing on the net, but if you’re getting clean, good for you. It can take a period of months to fully detox from thc, so good luck with that.

              My drug use, hardly relevant, but okay…

              In my past I have had periods of being a daily cannabis smoker.
              I have been addicted to tobacco.
              I have had experience of legal highs.
              Now I do none of those, so cleanish-skin would be a better descriptor.

              I partake in an occasional bottle of cider or perry, but not since I’ve been on prescription meds as the instructions state limit alcohol.

              • phillip ure …
                21 March 2014 at 9:30 am

                @allen..

                ..did you forget yr addictions to animal-flesh/fat/bye-products..?

                ..i’ll bet you shrink from the thought of stopping them..

                ..eh..?

                ..brings you out in a cold sweat..?

                ..the very thought of doing that..?

                • The Al1en …
                  21 March 2014 at 9:50 am

                  Addictive meat < Drugs. Keep pulling back on that bow string Mr Hood. 😆
                  Hi, I’m The Al1en, I’m a meataholic and it’s been six weeks since my last bacon buttie.

                  Bet I could go longer without a chicken curry than you’ll manage without a spliff, and with no withdrawal symptoms, not even a random cluck or cock a doodle don’t.

                  And just for that, I’m re-hashing an old joke of mine, first aired on here January 2013

                  You’ve got to feel sorry for drug addicts and how they have to go cold turkey.
                  But I bet they’re glad they’re not sex addicts, who have to go cold sausage.

                  • phillip ure …
                    21 March 2014 at 2:12 pm

                    hey..!..

                    pot doesn’t give you cancer..

                    ..meat does..

                    ..and recently dairy has also been fingered for that..

                    ..but you shine on..!..you crazy carnivore..!

                    ..eh..?

                    ..laugh at the evidence..eh..?

                    ..and you are full of bullshit..

                    ..you could not just stop necking meat/dairy..

                    ..yr meat-monkey’d give you grief..

                    • bad12 …
                      21 March 2014 at 2:28 pm

                      Phillip, that’s just stupid, hardly unexpected from you, if eating meat gave ‘you’ cancer we would all have it, cancer that is…

                    • The Al1en …
                      21 March 2014 at 2:36 pm

                      A couple of random jumps from pot doesn’t cause withdrawal symptoms, to meat is addictive, to meat causes cancer.
                      For the record, uv rays can cause cancer, just like smoking pretty much anything will, especially cannabis, where the toke is usually held in the lungs for a longer period. To reduce your chances, I wouldn’t eat a kebab in the sunshine after a drag on a joint.

                      I’m not sure why you are attacking me. Is it because I said I don’t believe your abstinence or don’t accept your meh as the definitive authority on wacky baccy come downs?
                      Either way, seeing the progression of responses to my fairly tame and sincere posts, I’m not that much surprised. Maybe I do believe you’re giving up after all, though the way you were engaged in the addict wars the other week, it is hard to tell 🙂

                    • phillip ure …
                      21 March 2014 at 2:36 pm

                      um..duh..!

                      ..red meat gives you bowel cancer..

                      ..we have one of the highest global-rates of eating red-meat/fat..

                      ..bowel cancer is the biggest cancer-killer in nz..

                      ..w.t.f. have u been smoking..?

                    • phillip ure …
                      21 March 2014 at 2:39 pm

                      @ allen..

                      ..i am not ‘attacking’ you..

                      ..i am just pointing out that you are talking shite..

                      (and don’t worry..you aren’t alone..

                      ..have you met bad..?..)

                      ..and tho’ not now consuming..

                      ..there is no way i will stop arguing/fighting for sane laws around drugs..

                      ..all drugs..

                    • The Al1en …
                      21 March 2014 at 2:43 pm

                      I’m sensing a whiff of paranoia, but it could just be something in the air, though after saying I’m full of shit and not remembering a few minutes later, well, that’s almost conclusive about your short term memory 😆

                    • bad12 …
                      21 March 2014 at 11:00 pm

                      Phillip, phillip, ”Red meat gives you bowel cancer”, please provide us a link to this assertion, something at least with a modicum of professionalism involved other than some Hippie ‘i thunk it therefor it is theory’ would be nice,

                      ”Bowel cancer is the biggest cancer killer in New Zealand”, a link to some proof of this would also not go amiss Phillip, its not that i consider you a bullshit artist, no hang on, i do consider you to be engaged most days in heavy bouts of the male bovine defecating,

                      Proof please i am tired of doing hours of research to prove liars are doing just that…

      • felix 1.1.3
        21 March 2014 at 8:04 am

        Tell me Dr A1lien, what is your recommendation for dealing with the facetious passive-aggressive bullshit of third parties?

      • bad12 1.1.4
        21 March 2014 at 8:40 am

        We can’t knock Phill too much, although having said that when the occasion arises to its always a pleasure,

        Having Phill admit His poly-addiction was halfway to having Him make the attempt to at least try a drug free lifestyle and we should be at least a little supportive of Him in His attempt even if we think He is full of the brown stuff with His daily reports on His non-use,

        my next attempt at Phills rehabilitation into the real world will have to be to have Him write His comments in at least a semblance of logically structured English instead of the plagarism of E.E whats-his-face who wrote the occassional poem in the lack of style Phill has chosen to adopt,

        Far from a heroic poet of the left E.E whats-his-face was a supporter of the Republican’s and an admirer of McCarthyism happily content to pen and publish the odd poem full of racial innuendo…

        • phillip ure 1.1.4.1
          21 March 2014 at 8:52 am

          must be time for a ciggie..eh..?

          ..and..have you emptied that ashtray yet..?

          • bad12 1.1.4.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 9:06 am

            While we work on your lack of style through the plagarism of E.E whats-his-faces few poems written in this mangled stupidity Phill we will also have to do a little remedial instruction for you on continued repetition which leaves the readers bored and you looking un-intelligent,

            The brain damage suffered by heavy drug users is in most cases, depending on the level of such self inflicted damage, usually self healing over a period of ensuing years of being free from the addiction,

            We might then expect you to lift the intelligence quotient of you comments,(although in your case i would suggest such hope is a forlorn one), and stop being so boringly repetitive…

            • phillip ure 1.1.4.1.1.1
              21 March 2014 at 9:17 am

              speaking of ‘being so boringly repetitive…’

              ..eh..?

              • bad12 …
                21 March 2014 at 10:41 am

                Yes exactly Phillip, you have used the derr rejoinder above on numerous occasions, containing zero humor on its first use it has failed to grow any and in fact seems to have sunk into the minus as a reposte containing any wit whatsoever,

                But, just for you i can assure you that my ashtray is emptied on a regular basis on the days of the week when i take out my food scraps for burial in my extensive garden, a small modicum of ash i am assured is a positive for soil development,

                And now, i must leave you to it for an hour as said garden, along with the other household chores must be attended to at the ponderous speed the bone deformity growing on my spine allows for,

                Definitely wont be able to answer in the affirmative if ever labelled spineless as i am possessed of one with extras,(i am sure i have left an opening there Phillip that even one such as you suffering the withdrawal of years of drug abuse can dredge a modicum of humor from)…

    • vto 1.2
      21 March 2014 at 8:16 am

      Good for you mr ure, well done. True.

      Hopefully soon you will also be able to stop murdering plants for your food supply too and consume something which kills nought.

  2. risildowgtn 2
    21 March 2014 at 7:29 am

    Congrads on 6 days..

    I have been sober for close to 12 months and it isnt easy.
    Best of luck

  3. Draco T Bastard 3
    21 March 2014 at 7:36 am

    Just some light reading for the morning
    Pieria: Unlearning the History of Capitalism

    Imagine if every time somebody expressed support for capitalism, they were immediately screamed down with death tolls from Colonial India, the Transatlantic Slave Trade and the worst of US foreign policy. Those who argued against them, rather than engaging any of their arguments directly, informed them that they were “psychotic“, heartless apologists for some of the worst crimes in history, then proceeded to catalogue these crimes as if that settled the debate. Perhaps the incredulous anti-capitalists would go so far as to tell the capitalist that they were insulting the victims of these crimes, and even that if they ever met those victims, they’d probably get beaten up or something. Sound stupid? Well, this is where debates about communism lie today.

    Follow the links as well.

    • Tracey 3.1
      21 March 2014 at 8:20 am

      thanks for this Draco.

    • RedLogix 3.2
      21 March 2014 at 8:32 am

      DtB,

      Thanks for that. Here’s one in reply that I imagine you might enjoy:

      While depression economics has many strange features, the most important one to remember is this: with slack in the economy, it’s possible to have an economic free lunch. If our economy were running at capacity, new government spending, for example, would tend to create inflation because the capacity (workers, raw materials, and equipment) would have to be bid away from someone else, thereby raising prices. But during a depression that doesn’t happen. Instead, new spending brings idle capacity into production. To put that another way, the single-most-important underpinning of a functioning economy is to ensure that there is sufficient aggregate demand.

      http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_may_2014/features/free_money_for_everyone049287.php?page=all

  4. phillip ure 4
    21 March 2014 at 7:56 am

    i wd recommend watching the collins/jones encounter on tvone breakfast this morn..

    ..most illuminating about both of them..really..

    ..and leading to two conclusion:..

    ..one:..listen/watch to this hubris-drenched/arrogant/egotist..(the collins one..)..

    ..and then shudder at the idea of her ever leading national/being prime minister..

    ..and then watch/listen to the other ‘hubris-drenched/arrogant/egotist’..

    ..and wonder why he is even in the labour party..

    • Once was Tim 4.1
      21 March 2014 at 8:11 am

      @PU
      I can’t bear to watch that visual pus, but I’m glad I have you to remind me things haven’t changed.

  5. RedLogix 5
    21 March 2014 at 8:27 am

    Here’s a para from Chris Trotter’s latest.

    What do people want? They want Jobs. Higher wages. A warm, safe home to live in. Affordable rent and a secure tenancy. Cheap power. Protection from those bastards at WINZ, CYFS and the ACC. Unions that people can join without fear of losing their jobs. Free doctors’ visits. Free dental care. Schools that give their kids the very best start in life. The right to hunt and fish and swim in the mountains, lakes and rivers of their own country without running into “Private Property – Keep Out” signs and without getting sick. An end to the selling off their country’s farms and forests to foreigners. – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/03/19/what-the-hells-gone-wrong-with-cunliffe/#sthash.eAch3oqu.dpuf

    There you go. Everything you really need to know about NZ politics in one clean, clear paragraph.

    I know a lot of people don’t enjoy it much when Chris writes about how Labour could do better – but I find it makes him a more reliable compass than most.

    I wrote the other day about Cunliffe needing to demonstrate leadership, and I’ve long advocated a UBI as the killer policy that will cut through the neo-lib smokescreen. And yet in that one para Chris has identified exactly where and how Cunliffe can express this leadership – in terms that have real meaning for the ordinary NZ voter.

    • geoff 5.1
      21 March 2014 at 8:46 am

      Hasn’t Cunliffe been saying that his Labour will deliver a lot of those things? Using different words but still the underlying politics is very similar to what Trotter is saying.

      What specific instances has Cunliffe failed on these kinds of issues? Or are you just questioning his delivery?

      • RedLogix 5.1.1
        21 March 2014 at 8:56 am

        That’s a fair question. I agree Labour has been doing the groundwork, it has announced some policy – I’m sure a lot of good things are going on.

        But yes the delivery hasn’t – delivered. Somehow it’s all come across as ‘a dash here and a dab there’ without much sense of being part of a coherent, consistent narrative.

        Part of the blame lies with the msm who will not do Labour any favours in this respect. Part of the blame lies with an atomised society that has been largely and deliberately switched off.

        If there was a simple, silver bullet answer to this way smarter minds than mine would know it by now – and if not I wouldn’t spell it out in a public forum. But the one thing I’m sure of is this – if we keep playing by the Nats rules, on their playing field, the left will forever struggle.

        I don’t want to just get over the line with a marginal coalition. If we are going to make the changes necessary to bury neo-liberalism in this country the left needs a mandate no-one will challenge for a decade.

        • geoff 5.1.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 9:12 am

          I totally agree about the coherent narrative part, that hasn’t been there yet. But that was largely because Labour was in stasis with the previous chief of staff.
          That was partly DC’s fault but at least now Matt is in there I am confident we will see a significant improvement. The train was just parked up at the station so it is going to take a month or so to get up to speed.

          Asking Labour to bury neo-liberalism in this country in 6 months is quite an ask.
          If you’re looking for a landslide victory for the left then you’ve got to be prepared for another 3 years of National. That’s the reality.

          • RedLogix 5.1.1.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 9:36 am

            I understand that the situation with the CoS was really unfortunate. It must have been destabilising and Matt will take some time to get up to speed as anyone does in a new role.

            Maybe I am dreaming – but to my mind losing the election AND then having Cunliffe being forced to resign really leaves the left in NZ in a pretty bleak place.

            I simply don’t see a lot of other figures who I think have both the experience and talent to take the game off National. And then subsequently run a strong stable government.

            That’s the point – there are very few people in Labour or the Greens who have track record in successfully running a Ministerial office for any length of time. Experience counts. It boils down to maybe six people, and of those I really only respect Cunliffe, King and Goff.

            Where does that leave us in the event of a loss in September?

            • geoff 5.1.1.1.1.1
              21 March 2014 at 10:22 am

              In the event of a loss in September Labour should just keep going with Cunliffe.

              If you dump Cunliffe then you dump all the good people he now has with brought in with him (matt etc).

              You’re back to square one and you get someone who in all likelihood is going to be to the right of DC.

              Perhaps one of the few people in the caucus to the left of DC is Andrew Little but he would presumably fail the experience criteria in your opinion.

              You say you respect King and Goff but presumably you wouldn’t care to see them as leader if burying neo-lib is your goal?

              • RedLogix …
                21 March 2014 at 10:33 am

                No. But I’d be ok with them as Ministers.

                Winning elections is only part of the deal. Having the people capable of doing a good job of running a Ministry is the another part – if that is you want them to achieve something worthwhile.

                That’s why Cunliffe needs to stay on – he’s the only left wing MP whose policy I can support AND who I’d trust to run a government competently.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.1.2
              21 March 2014 at 12:26 pm

              I simply don’t see a lot of other figures who I think have both the experience and talent to take the game off National.

              Sometimes having experience is what gets in the way. After all, the experienced person will try to continue doing things the way that they know how when what we need is to do things differently. Cunliffe is, IMO, in this position.

              What we need is a team with the shear arrogance to get in there and make the necessary changes. Of course, they still need to get the populace onside to make the changes.

        • phillip ure 5.1.1.2
          21 March 2014 at 2:19 pm

          @ red loxix..

          “..I don’t want to just get over the line with a marginal coalition. If we are going to make the changes necessary to bury neo-liberalism in this country the left needs a mandate no-one will challenge for a decade..”

          plus one..

          rather than limp over the line..i wd almost rather key got back..

          ..as that wd see a cleanout of the old neo-lib reactionaries/do nothings in labour..

          .(you know who you are..!..)

          ..and cd ensure that mandate in ’17..

      • Ant 5.1.2
        21 March 2014 at 11:23 am

        Most of Trotter’s rant is what David Cunliffe has been saying the whole time… Apart from Trotter trying to shove a couple of his Waitakere man tropes in there, I mean who complains about CYFS?

        • geoff 5.1.2.1
          21 March 2014 at 12:07 pm

          That’s my problem with trotter, he’s so fickle, he chops and changes his perspective all the time. Yet every time he delivers a perspective, it’s somehow always the definitive perspective, even when it contradicts what he’s said in an earlier piece.

    • bad12 5.2
      21 March 2014 at 8:56 am

      Red, totally agree with you, that half of Chris Trotters latest went straight to the heart of the ‘bread and butter’ issues that effect the bottom 30% of the economy the most and Labour cannot seem to get any sort of grip on these most basic of issues,

      Phill Twyford kindly took the time to Post here at the Standard yesterday and far from inspire me everything He said concerning housing resonated in my mind as an exhibition of how far Labour is removed from the realities of that real world lived every day by those of us in that bottom 30% of the economy…

  6. Wyndham, George 6
    21 March 2014 at 8:40 am

    Finally some of the Labour Caucus doing a days work!
    Cosgrove, Robertson and Jones getting some cut through.
    Thankfully Cunliffe does not play the game of trying to hog the limelight. Cunliffe has the self confidence to encourage all his front bench to show their wares.
    It is a big contrast from when Mold and Robertson were blocking Cunliffe and others from getting any limelight. Keep it up Labour.

    BTW we should be hearing more from Shearer Goff King et al. Has anyone seen them get publicity?

    • Not a PS Staffer 6.1
      21 March 2014 at 9:36 am

      Yes, the bad-old-days are behind us.

      However, I get flashes of anger when I remember the fucking stupid behaviour of Mallard and Roberson and the twits that surrounded them in Wellington. Their selfishness did a lot of damage to the party and Cunliffe has a lot a shit to clean up. I hope he is getting the help he needs.

      I too expect Goff, Shearer, King, Hipkins and other to land some solid blows on the Government: up your game boys and girls; the membership will be pissed if you slouch.

      I certainly do not want to see or hear anything from Mallard. Please Trevor, continue to be a great man of the people up the the valley….away from the media.

  7. Penny Bright 7
    21 March 2014 at 8:45 am

    The following comments are my considered opinion as an anti-corruption ‘whistle blower’:

    How come, as an anti-corruption ‘whistleblower’ – fighting for transparency in Auckland Council rates spending, and exposing corrupt conflicts of interest within Auckland Council and Auckland Council CCOs, (particularly with the powerful private sector ‘invitation-only’ $10,000 per year membership fee – lobby group the Committee for Auckland), I’m being censored, assaulted by Council Officers and now threatened with the sale of my home, while corrupt Judith Collins – MINISTER FOR JUSTICE – has protection at the highest levels while she arguably feathers her (and her husband’s) own nest?

    Misuse of public office for private gain?

    That’s CORRUPTION – end of story.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Key-admits-second-Oravida-golf-game/tabid/1607/articleID/336743/Default.aspx

    Is corrupt Judith Collins being protected by shonky John Key?

    Why?

    Because they’re both corrupt?

    Because shonky John Key is getting advice on corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ from his party political ‘Office of the Prime Minister’ as opposed to the supposedly more independent and impartial Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) ?

    Please be reminded that dodgy John Banks was protected by shonky John Key – but the DEFENDANT John Banks has been committed to trial for electoral fraud in the Auckland High Court for a 10 day hearing on 19 May 2014.

    As I predicted – 2014 is the year that New Zealand is being rocked to the core with scandals of corrupt corporate ‘conflicts of interest’ and cronyism – which go right to the top.

    Want to see a framework for genuine transparency and democratic accountability at NZ central and local government level and within the judiciary?

    Try this :

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    Now see why I’m being ‘picked on’?

    Will it shut me up?

    No way – they’re picking on the WRONG woman …..

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

  8. phillip ure 8
    21 March 2014 at 8:55 am

    “..Most of What You Think You Know About Milk – Is Probably Dairy Industry Lies..”

    “..The powerful dairy lobby has been spreading dangerous health claims about milk –

    for decades..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/most-what-you-think-you-know-about-milk-probably-dairy-industry-lies

  9. vto 9
    21 March 2014 at 9:16 am

    I don’t get all the fuss over the Kohanga Reo fuss the last couple days. Yesterday on te wireless Nat Radio the Panel, Jim Mora had the little turd Jordan Williams on ranting about how evil it was that the trust had set up a corporate structure which was entirely lawful but which had a result which was a sham in that it broke a link that quite clearly existed between the end point and the start point (public funding)

    Perhaps Jordan Williams would care to also attack political party donation structures which put in place corporate structures which are entirely lawful but which have a result which is a sham in that it breaks a link that quite clearly exists between the end point and the start point (secret funding)

    Jordan Williams could start with the National and Labour Parties.

    It was a disgusting and hypocritical attack by the organisation that is controlled by Jordan Williams and David Farrar. Their credibility weakens every time they stick their heads over the parapet. Bunch of puppet muppets, not to mention blatantly racist as evidenced by their target selection…

  10. greywarbler 10
    21 March 2014 at 9:20 am

    The Dunedin City Council’s financial dealings arm buying up bits of resorts. And losing $6 million. And apparently hardly under anyone’s control. Then the money spent on the Forsyth Barr stadium. The ratepayers/taxpayers are being used as a pool of ensklaved investors under these policies of today.

    The central government should take away the general competence of councils. It is too easy for men and women who want to strut around making deals and feeling important. With ratepayers money. If anything was to be developed it should be model housing, to designs that the local government commission would have had drawn up allowing multiple use of sectionsm apartments for family living, up to say four stories high with lifts etc. Slanted to the sun, allowing some privacy, space for gardening. Things like that. Not playing the smart shit speculator style.

    • Pasupial 10.1
      21 March 2014 at 10:40 am

      Greywarbler

      This story?

      Delta spent $14.17 million on the properties in 2008 and 2009. It now expected a loss of between $6.4 million and $8.7 million, with the amount to be confirmed by the end of the year, the [Auditor-general’s] report said… The report cleared Delta and its directors of any impropriety or conflicts of interest, and made no recommendations for changes to any party. That was largely due to the work already undertaken by the council to restructure the governance arrangements of its companies… included separating the membership of the DCHL board from its subsidiary companies, and appointing a new council group chief financial officer

      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/295960/delta-thwarted-proper-scrutiny-breached-acts

      Losing half your money on a property investment, is certainly unimpressive management skills. However, I remain to be convinced that putting everything in central government’s hands is the solution. Look how well that’s going with the Christchurch rebuild and Canterbury water.

      But, yes; energy-smart state housing would be a boon for the country. I can’t see the present NAct crew doing anything about it though.

      • greywarbler 10.1.1
        21 March 2014 at 12:40 pm

        I’m not suggesting tht everything should be done by central government. I am suggesting that any projects above a certain amount (possibly based on a percentage of the last annual rates total) should be passed before perhaps a panel with some financial and accounting and development people from government and the local people.

        It is necessary to confer, objectively look at the figures, really it would be mentoring. It wouldn’t be just a political fix with one person like Brownlee, plus political appointees, any body or bodies, it would need people beyond those whose abilities need to be measured with regard to the Peter Principle.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 12:47 pm

          Just pass the actual authorisation to spend the money to the rates payers via an online voting system.

          • greywarbler 10.1.1.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 1:02 pm

            Cripes DTB have you ever been involved in parish pump politics? Do you have a local newspaper with a reasonable number of letters printed each day? Or on line comments? The issues get churned so often they end of as grey slush. And the same arguments vented in boring repetition. AAghhh!@

            Leave it to the people and you can end up with nothing or some wildly impractical scheme that presses some emotional button. And stops there because it doesn’t serve any purpose that is really wanted. Like a monument to WW1. What the hell what about WW2 memorials, we want equal time, and the Vietnam War too, and what about the war that the Western powers are trying to organise right now.

            People should have their say but don’t believe that saying about the wisdom of masses. People understanding the issues, agreeing with the issues, and then choosing from possible measures to meet those issues, with budgets, the employment graph showing the figures for extra employment when completed and running etc.well wouldn’t that be fine and dandy. Do most people go to that trouble? That is what is needed when voting.

            You almost have to winnow out people who firstly won’t even consider the project, or who aren’t willing to see any of their rates get spent on more than the basics, or think it is the wrong colour, or who want the money spent on something else they consider should have priority etc. or you will never get anything done.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.1.1
              21 March 2014 at 1:30 pm

              Leave it to the people and you can end up with nothing or some wildly impractical scheme that presses some emotional button. And stops there because it doesn’t serve any purpose that is really wanted.

              Bollocks.

              People will have the choice – fund this or that or raise rates. Specifically they’re given all the information first.

              Do most people go to that trouble? That is what is needed when voting.

              If the information is easily available then, yes, I believe they will.

          • McFlock 10.1.1.1.2
            21 March 2014 at 1:15 pm

            At least make landlords walk to a ballot box before pulling small-minded viciousness out of their arses.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1.2.1
              21 March 2014 at 1:31 pm

              /shrug

              The landlords are a minority.

              • McFlock …
                21 March 2014 at 1:45 pm

                the ones most likely to vote against, e.g. funding for council flats and height restrictions.

                Whereas a whole bunch of other people are and will be just alienated from the entire process

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  21 March 2014 at 3:34 pm

                  Not really, it’s easy to set up libraries and schools so that they can vote there. People aren’t limited to their own internet connection.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 March 2014 at 8:38 pm

                    and that’s not going to skew the participation rates at all? Poorest fok have to go to the pooling boths on a rainy day, folk with internet at home don’t need to change out of their pjs?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      21 March 2014 at 9:25 pm

                      Just because we can’t get it perfect doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do it.

                    • McFlock …
                      21 March 2014 at 9:46 pm

                      it might well mean that when the penalty for failure is worse than what we have today.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      21 March 2014 at 9:53 pm

                      Draco, do you believe people make decisions based on information or their own prejudices?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      22 March 2014 at 2:33 pm

                      it might well mean that when the penalty for failure is worse than what we have today.

                      It might mean that but it probably won’t.

                      do you believe people make decisions based on information or their own prejudices?

                      Both but that most people will make decisions based upon the evidence if they have easy access to that evidence. IMO, this is where politics falls down ATM – people just don’t have easy access to the evidence and research.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 3:33 pm

                      It might mean that but it probably won’t.

                      and you base that on… ?

                      Basically, you’re making voting more accessible for some and not for others. How is that a good idea?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      22 March 2014 at 4:15 pm

                      Basically, you’re making voting more accessible for some and not for others.

                      Not really. The majority of households have their own internet connection and everyone else (~13%) would be able to go down to either their local school, church, library to vote there. And I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people in that 13% had cell phones with internet connection.

                      Of course, the government should be getting an internet connection out to those last few percent. Internet connection needs to be a government supported right and not just a nice to have left to the market.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 5:26 pm

                      Near enough isn’t good enough. And that’s not even getting into the issues around electronic voting in general.

                      The only thing worse than having every spending issue voted on would be having it easier for some people to vote on it than others. Even if it is only 10% you’re alienating.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      22 March 2014 at 5:57 pm

                      Draco, Noting your response to me in today’s Open Mike on direct democracy, I take it you would be happy for moral issues to decided directly, as well as spending and taxes? A poll commissioned by TV3’s The Nation last year showed 38% of New Zealanders supported a return to capital punishment (other polls, albeit older, have found majority level support for capital punishment). If this issue was decided by direct vote there would be much ‘information’ I am sure provided by the likes of sensible sentencing trust. It would be an information war. Progressive measures in society have always been driven by vocal minorities. I do not think there is an information utopia that awaits which changes this old, basic, fact of human history.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      22 March 2014 at 6:21 pm

                      Near enough isn’t good enough.

                      Yeah, actually, it is. If we keep waiting for everything to be perfect then nothing will ever change.

                      Noting your response to me in today’s Open Mike on direct democracy, I take it you would be happy for moral issues to decided directly, as well as spending and taxes?

                      Yes.

                      A poll commissioned by TV3′s The Nation last year showed 38% of New Zealanders supported a return to capital punishment

                      So it wouldn’t be implemented then would it and thus not a concern.

                      If this issue was decided by direct vote there would be much ‘information’ I am sure provided by the likes of sensible sentencing trust. It would be an information war.

                      It would be if we allowed it to be and I don’t think we would for more than a short time. The problem we have, ATM, is that we still allow the spreading of misinformation.

                      Progressive measures in society have always been driven by vocal minorities.

                      Yep but when the laws have been changed to suit it’s usually been the politicians that have been behind where the populace was. The Equal Marriage Act was a good example of this.

                      According to the grapevine around 80% of people prefer the Greens policies.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      22 March 2014 at 6:41 pm

                      ‘The problem we have, ATM, is that we still allow the spreading of misinformation.’

                      Draco, who is the ‘we’ that would determine what constitutes ‘misinformation’? Would it go to a majority vote?

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 6:46 pm

                      Near enough isn’t good enough.

                      Yeah, actually, it is. If we keep waiting for everything to be perfect then nothing will ever change.

                      The worry is whether it changes for the worse.
                      You reckon that the death penalty wouldn’t be reintroduced because only 38% of the population want it.
                      What % of the eligible voters wanted a national government?
                      Half of voters who voted.
                      Only 74% of voters actually voted.
                      74/2 = 37% of voters want a national govt.

                      Yeah, couldn’t happen.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      22 March 2014 at 8:42 pm

                      Draco, who is the ‘we’ that would determine what constitutes ‘misinformation’? Would it go to a majority vote?

                      It wouldn’t be a “we” but a formula. The majority vote would be about determining if such a law is necessary.

                      The worry is whether it changes for the worse.
                      You reckon that the death penalty wouldn’t be reintroduced because only 38% of the population want it.
                      What % of the eligible voters wanted a national government?
                      Half of voters who voted.
                      Only 74% of voters actually voted.
                      74/2 = 37% of voters want a national govt.

                      Yeah, couldn’t happen.

                      We do need to get more people voting but I think that direct democracy would do that. IMO, The apathy that we’re seeing is a direct result of representative democracy because the politicians ignore the people and what they want and do things, such as selling off state assets, which are bad for the country and people feel powerless because they can’t get the politicians to change. If the politicians listened we wouldn’t still have neo-liberalism – that would have gone out under the 5th Labour government.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 8:50 pm

                      It might be that the poor and weak are yearning to be free.

                      Or it could just be that 30 years of neolibs has rotted the culture of community into a culture of only caring about those things which relate directly to oneself.

                      In the latter case, it’s quite likely that a large chunk of folk who just concentrate on getting along in life won’t notice that civic politics has finally generated an issue that would screw them over. Squeakiest wheel, and all that.

                    • karol …
                      22 March 2014 at 8:52 pm

                      I thought that “direct democracy” involved more than just voting in an election and going with the majority? I thought it involved everyone participating in discussions that formulate policies, and aiming for consensus.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      22 March 2014 at 8:53 pm

                      ‘It wouldn’t be a “we” but a formula. The majority vote would be about determining if such a law is necessary.’

                      What is the ‘formula’; can you elaborate perhaps?
                      If, say, no information could go before the decision-making public other than peer reviewed published research that represented the so-called ‘weight of evidence’ in any given field/issue, then why not dispense with voting, and make decisions on a scientific/technocratic basis?
                      Surely it would be more rational and efficient?

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 8:54 pm

                      I thought it involved everyone participating in discussions that formulate policies, and aiming for consensus.

                      ideally.
                      But in practise, in NZ now?

                    • karol …
                      22 March 2014 at 9:02 pm

                      Technocratic basis – re peer reviewed research?

                      No – because the thing about peer reviewed research, especially in the social sciences, social policy etc, is that there are differing views by the experts. And usually, underlying the differences are different values, or different value-weighting to crucial factors. It can result in different ways 2 experts approach a research project and analyse the data. Often things are not that clear cut.

                      In education: do you go for training people to obey authorities and thus become a totally compliant workforce? – will result in efficient production of cars, but workers who lead miserable lives.

                      Or do you go for teaching people to learn how to learn, and to become innovative and creative – even if that means they decide to rebel against current policies and want to draw up a new form of government?

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      22 March 2014 at 9:08 pm

                      ‘I thought that “direct democracy” involved more than just voting in an election and going with the majority? I thought it involved everyone participating in discussions that formulate policies, and aiming for consensus.’

                      Representative democracy is supposed to engender the ability for everyone to participate in discussions that formulate policies. Through select committee hearings, letters to MPs, petitions, letters to the editor, voting in non-binding referenda, general elections.
                      But as politicians ignore public feeling on many if not most issues, some people tout direct democracy as the means by which the public can retain control. So instead of venal politicians voting along party lines, you get the tyranny of the majority.
                      I would prefer to see an overhaul of parliamentary democracy whereby most decisions were conscience based, and MPs were not enslaved to the party line.

                    • karol …
                      22 March 2014 at 9:14 pm

                      Direct democracy can mean participatory democracy at a grass roots level – has nothing to do with going with the majority vote – but working together in self managing systems to achieve a consensus.

                      Ergo – your idea of “direct democracy” seems like a version of representative democracy.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      22 March 2014 at 9:21 pm

                      ‘Ergo – your idea of “direct democracy” seems like a version of representative democracy.’
                      Sorry, I probably didn’t write it very well.
                      I do not support direct democracy, which is the public directly voting on laws etc.
                      I favour representative democracy. My idea of an ‘overhaul’ of the parliamentary system is about making it more democratic, not getting rid of the representative part.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      22 March 2014 at 11:05 pm

                      Or it could just be that 30 years of neolibs has rotted the culture of community into a culture of only caring about those things which relate directly to oneself.

                      I’m not wielding any silver bullets. I see a need for change because the present system is throttling us and think that if we wait for everything to be perfect before we do anything then no change will come about.

                      What is the ‘formula’; can you elaborate perhaps?

                      Been thinking about it for awhile but haven’t come up with an answer. I’d probably base it around peer review though.

                      If, say, no information could go before the decision-making public other than peer reviewed published research that represented the so-called ‘weight of evidence’ in any given field/issue, then why not dispense with voting, and make decisions on a scientific/technocratic basis?

                      What resources we have available on a sustainable basis is a hard fact and is thus a scientific question and can only be answered by the scientists. What we do with those resources is a political decision and is therefore open to communal discussion. The same would be true of the laws of a country.

                      I thought that “direct democracy” involved more than just voting in an election and going with the majority? I thought it involved everyone participating in discussions that formulate policies, and aiming for consensus.

                      Direct democracy can mean participatory democracy at a grass roots level – has nothing to do with going with the majority vote – but working together in self managing systems to achieve a consensus.

                      And how would you measure the consensus if there was no voting?
                      And there’s nothing that says that the community couldn’t decide what sort of support it required for the decision to pass even if there was still opposition.

                    • McFlock …
                      22 March 2014 at 11:31 pm

                      Silver bullets is one thing.

                      But if you don’t look at where you’re pointing the thing before you pull the trigger, that’s another problem entirely.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2
        21 March 2014 at 12:45 pm

        But, yes; energy-smart state housing would be a boon for the country. I can’t see the present NAct crew doing anything about it though.

        Of course national won’t. That would decrease demand for electricity and thus lower the profits the private owners make.

        • greywarbler 10.1.2.1
          22 March 2014 at 1:55 pm

          I was upset when National started introducing market rents for state houses back a while. They did it in stages. Poor people were shifted out of their homes as the plans became more stringent, because they got reprioritised out of them.

          What was the reaction. Nobody seemed to really care, a bit of Labour aggression, a hearing from religious leaders, probably a wee bit of sympathy from regular wage workers and house owners, but also the usual back-biting between some between beneficiaries I would think.

          People having a place to live is central in what we expect in society, and what the government demands – that you have a permanent address – and we know that sleeping in cars or under bridges is not countenanced by the authorities and it is dangerous. The Auckland murder of a woman sleeping in an Auckland Park was not solved I think. I don’t think there was sex involved and she had no goods.

          Recently an Americam women was on Radionz talking about her hard times with her children. She and they had slept in a car for a year or so and she had succeeded in getting them through and okay. But if the authorities had found her out they would have sliced and diced them. They can be real Nastys and pass judgment on struggling families depsite how well they are coping with inhuman odds.

          But ultimately people can be smug, taking an interest in others’ welfare is too hard or ‘they don’t deserve it’. The 1001 dogs of excuses for not giving a damn. Sorry DTB ‘da people’ ain’t going to rise up and act. They would need to be motivated by someone or some event. Even setting oneself on fire in a town square on behalf of housing for all who need it, probably wouldn’t get past that complacent plastic bubble so many live in.

          • Draco T Bastard 10.1.2.1.1
            22 March 2014 at 3:19 pm

            That’s really just a continuation of the old (counted in centuries) whinge from the conservatives and the rich that amounts to if we leave it to the people they’ll do it all wrong with the addendum from the rich of and they’ll vote to keep their wealth rather than letting us have and control it. Suffice to say that I find such arguments specious. We may make mistakes but they are our mistakes to make and not those of some dictators even if those dictators were elected.

            • greywarbler 10.1.2.1.1.1
              22 March 2014 at 7:28 pm

              Well I am coming from the point that the people don’t always do what is best for the people, they don’t always keep a watching eye on what is being done to make sure it is good for all people. If anyone expects that to happen automatically they are expecting ideal behaviour which crowds do not produce.

              If we here in NZ did what we should have years ago we would have protested at Roger Douglas and cohort’s behaviour and policies more but we were too apathetic and since then we haven’t done what’s best for the country but settled for minimum personal satisfaction. It’s the old thing about not doing anything for others under stress, but eventually the stress comes to you. Our present situation illustrates what I have said earlier.

              And so we are attempting this year, to get a Labour government being the aim, and secondly ensuring that this government does what needs to be done, in conversation, consultation and with the people. That is the ideal, and Labour has to work on recruiting voters who are enthused about them so they will vote for that Party to get that scenario. Not believe in their hearts that people when told the facts will arise and do the right thing.

              “We may make mistakes but they are our mistakes to make and not those of some dictators even if those dictators were elected.”

              I don’t find mistakes made by ‘the people’ any the less hurtful than those made by dictators. It’s a sweet notion that the people are going to positively cohese and do good things. But good outcomes have to be worked for, the people won’t automatically go to the path of most good, and care about those left out.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                22 March 2014 at 8:35 pm

                If anyone expects that to happen automatically they are expecting ideal behaviour which crowds do not produce.

                We’re not talking about crowds though. We’re talking about individuals talking, discussing and voting.

                If we here in NZ did what we should have years ago we would have protested at Roger Douglas and cohort’s behaviour and policies more but we were too apathetic and since then we haven’t done what’s best for the country but settled for minimum personal satisfaction.

                We did protest. The problem was that we didn’t have any choice nor any say in what the government was doing. Nor did we have the right to recall them – not that that would have made any difference as all we could have done was replace them with National and the 1990s showed us how bad that would have been. Since then we still haven’t had a lot of choice because Labour and National are two sides of the same coin. Bringing in direct democracy will give us that choice and the ability to make changes which are denied us by representative democracy.

                And so we are attempting this year, to get a Labour government being the aim, and secondly ensuring that this government does what needs to be done, in conversation, consultation and with the people.

                And one that won’t work as Labour will continue to prop up capitalism at our expense. The representatives will continue to represent only business and the profit motive.

                I don’t find mistakes made by ‘the people’ any the less hurtful than those made by dictators.

                I didn’t say that they would be. The benefit of them is that we won’t be able to blame the government for them. We’ll have to wear the responsibility ourselves.

                But good outcomes have to be worked for, the people won’t automatically go to the path of most good, and care about those left out.

                Then we have work to do.

    • thatguynz 10.2
      21 March 2014 at 10:45 am

      With respect GW I absolutely disagree. It would be a monumental tragedy, nay travesty, if local government functions were further rolled into central government – there are already examples of how and why this is bad with the lack of control that Auckland has over their CCO’s and the top-down approach that is being driven to unify Wellington’s councils. I’d much prefer a more direct and accountable level of local democracy as the answer to the problems that you have identified (which I do agree with).

      Once the capability of local governance is improved with adequate transparency and accountability I would personally go in the other direction and vest more local responsibility away from central government. Pipe dream stuff though I suspect but I live in hope 🙁

      • greywarbler 10.2.1
        21 March 2014 at 12:31 pm

        that guynz
        I can’t agree with your trust in local government and limitations on them giving clear heads and preventative effects on speculative brainfarts any more than I would place all my trust in central. There should be limited opportunities for local government – either on its own behalf or through some quasi-private business arm or connection – to enter into projects over a certain limit without scrutiny and okay from central government entities.

        Someone needs to hold up a stop sign to those with the delirious exhiliration of handling figures with lots of 0’s around them. Local characters who have made good with their own efforts candesire to go on to multiply this and build on their persona increasing to personal empires in their area. I wonder if Hubbard SCF could come into this category?

        • thatguynz 10.2.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 12:57 pm

          Believe me – I have as little trust in current local government as I do central government 🙂 I do however believe that with the right structural changes, a much more direct level of democracy could and should be applied at the local level. As DtB has mentioned above it could be by way of online voting or direct referendum or any other manner of things that the present structures neither encourage nor really allow. In a lot of respects it may encourage more of a meritocracy in local body governance which coupled with greater transparency would surely be a positive.

          Regrettably the current trajectory is for a complete dis-empowerment of local government which has moved the voice (and control) further away from the people and trust has been eroded accordingly.

    • millsy 10.3
      21 March 2014 at 9:57 pm

      Delta (ie the old Otago EPB/Dunedin MED/DCC works and services) should really stick to their knitting and provide Dunedin/Otago with works and services, and an electricity network. It is crap like that that sees councils stripped of the right to own things like electricity networks.

  11. Populuxe1 11
    21 March 2014 at 9:26 am

    Back on the subject of Ukraine, RT drops all pretense of being anything other than a mouthpiece for Kremlin propoganda
    http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-today-drops-all-pretense-editorial-independence-publishes-pro-putin-propaganda-1562535

    And while there is a lot of anti-Semitism among Ukraine nationalists, still a better love story than Twilight. Ukraine’s Jews would even now rather Russia didn’t “help” them – k’thankx’bi
    http://www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/world/ukraine-chief-rabbi-accuses-russians-of-staging-anti-semitic-provocations

    Probably they haven’t forgotten why Cossacks love long roads and Fiddler on the Roof is a Disneyfied version of the clearing of the Shtetls
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtetl
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement

    • millsy 12.1
      21 March 2014 at 10:03 pm

      That’s what you get when you have have thousands of military bases all over the world with hydroslides, foodcourts, and golf courses, and then you decide that destroyers would look really cool with lasers bolted onto them.

  13. tricledrown 13
    21 March 2014 at 9:56 am

    Phil ure a legend.
    One thing I have noticed since you have cut your cannibis intake is your posts have far fewer dots and are more coherant .
    Compulsive addictions are hard to deal with and usually people just change from one to another.
    So long as it is a healthy addiction that is good .

  14. Skinny 14
    21 March 2014 at 10:49 am

    Ok Hooton come out of that rock your hiding under!

    Making Tory allegations about Jones jumping ship has been strongly refuted. While some of us speculated out loud Jones may bail to NZF after the next election, that was a setup for you Hooton and like the idiot you are, ya feel for it hook line and sinker.

    And now have little credibility if any left lol.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11223616

    • amirite 14.1
      21 March 2014 at 1:15 pm

      And the dumb MS media hooked onto it too, and ran with this non-story showing how stupid and useless they are.

  15. Pasupial 15
    21 March 2014 at 10:50 am

    From about 8am-9am, cruise ship passengers and commuters were greeted by a banner – ”Time for clean energy” – hanging from the station’s clocktower, about 12m up… ”It’s a farewell to [oil and gas explorer] Anadarko. It [the banner] is below the clock to give a timely message to the Government, that now the [exploration drilling ship] Noble Bob Douglas has left New Zealand, we all have to unite and stop deep sea drilling.” The ship has spent a month drilling about 60km north of Dunedin and will leave soon for the Gulf of Mexico.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/295964/anadarko-ship-farewelled-message

    So maybe a bit premature, but Anadarko have been increasingly elusive and cagey of late. Once we have confirmation that the igNoble BD is indeed heading out of our waters there should be a larger “Glad you aren’t Here” public event.

  16. tricledrown 16
    21 March 2014 at 11:12 am

    Parsupial.
    The drill baby drill drools in Nactional have had their platform removed.
    Now they only have the shell left which may crumble as Well.
    Gold mines are closing and consolidating.
    Coal mines are closing
    Dolomite mines closing.
    Phosphate mine on the brink.
    No mention from National on its complete failure.

  17. tricledrown 17
    21 March 2014 at 11:19 am

    Penny not so bright just pay your rates you are never going to win that battle.
    Cutting off your nose etc .

  18. chris73 18
    21 March 2014 at 12:05 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9853153/Supreme-Court-rules-against-Kim-Dotcom

    Well theres another couple of nails in the lefts coffin for this election

    • Enough is Enough 18.1
      21 March 2014 at 12:09 pm

      Riiiiight,

      Because Kim’s appeal to get some evidence from the US has been declined

      must =

      New Zealander’s voting for National.

      Your logic is somewhat confused.

      • chris73 18.1.1
        21 March 2014 at 12:14 pm

        More like another barrier to getting rid of Dot Con has been removed = less funding for left-wing politicians who’ve stated they’ll look at blocking his extradition

        Also Dot Con was one of the lefts big hopes in trying to score a hit against John Key which is amusing in itself

        A foreign, convicted businessmen being one of the lefts great hopes…

        [lprent: Ok. Thats enough. Please show evidence single left-wing politician or party who has received substantive funding from DotCom and who has said that they will block his extradition. You are banned until you do, and I’ll put it on auto-spam. ]

        • thatguynz 18.1.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 12:34 pm

          I can only assume you’ve stopped taking your meds Chris.. That is one hell of a long bow that you are drawing.

          • chris73 18.1.1.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 12:40 pm

            I can only assume you have the memory of a goldfish or the memory of the typical left-wing supporter (which is pretty much the same thing):

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11200563

            http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/player/ondemand/206655100-mhb—dr-russel-norman–greens-will-block-kim-dotcom-s-extradition

            • thatguynz 18.1.1.1.1.1
              21 March 2014 at 1:02 pm

              Woosh, that went right over your head didn’t it. I’m not disputing what was said by those politicians – as you have clearly demonstrated, it’s a matter of record.

              What I was saying is that you’ve drawn a long bow that A) he was going to be a significant funder of any left campaign (when in fact he has historically funded right wing politicians anyway) and B) that he was the “left’s big hopes in scoring a hit against John Key”. Both of which have tenuous links with reality at best…

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                21 March 2014 at 2:33 pm

                You’re forgetting that right wing facts are supported by the argumentum ad nauseam.

            • lprent 18.1.1.1.1.2
              21 March 2014 at 2:33 pm

              Huh? I also oppose dotcom’s extradition, and so for that matter would most of the local legal profession.

              Basically the offenses that he is being attempted to be extradited for wouldn’t be offenses here – which isn’t essence is a major part of the local argument going on in the courts. THere is quite a lot of question if they are offenses even in the US.

              The way that the US has applied for the extradition and the actions of the police here were probably in large part unlawful.

              Many of the actions of the police after the arrest were definitely unlawful and amounted to theft by the police in defiance of the court.

              Basically you’re simply displaying all of the moronic stupidity that many of the followers of the right display in NZ. It appears to come from a innate genetic inability to think in the presence of police.

              It is known as the sheepeople effect.

              • McFlock …
                21 March 2014 at 2:52 pm

                I’d also say that staging an armed raid on an obese man and pregnant woman while making no provision for emergency medical aid (such as having an ambulance ready at the staging point) amounts to criminal nuisance.

                But then good luck getting the cops to look at that one.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  21 March 2014 at 3:37 pm

                  Actually, that would be criminal negligence.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 March 2014 at 4:23 pm

                    which section makes it criminal?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      21 March 2014 at 5:16 pm

                      NZ had to be difficult:

                      Generally, criminal liability requires not only the doing of a prohibited act but also either an intention to do the harm proscribed or recklessness whether it ensues. In other words, there must be a guilty mind (mens rea) as well as an unlawful act. There are, however, many exceptions to this in New Zealand, especially in the case of regulatory offences. Moreover, some crimes, notably manslaughter, are based on negligence. This country differs from most others in that the test of criminal negligence is, in many cases, the same as that for civil negligence – failure to observe the standard of care of a reasonable man – and even a slight degree of negligence can give rise to criminal liability.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1.1.2
          21 March 2014 at 1:09 pm

          That’s ok, Chris. Stone Shi has delivered more than we could possibly have hoped, with a bit of help from John Key’s natural instinct to tell lies.

          All Dotcom’s got is more evidence of that, but Key has confirmed it out of his own mouth.

          😆

  19. Papa Tuanuku 19
    21 March 2014 at 12:22 pm

    http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp/minginui-fights-back-video-5869950

    this clip needs to go viral. the left fights back!

    • bad12 19.1
      21 March 2014 at 2:46 pm

      Who needs 10 reasons not to watch ‘seven sharp’, Hosking is reason enough and the red-neck raving about small towns like Minginui and, apparently this sort of rubbish is Hoskings forte, Wairoa, are a pathetic expense indulged in by Hoskings at the taxpayers over-expense in paying Him to push Hs ugly little red-necks vision,

      As someone emailed in reply, any idiot could do Hoskings job for a fraction of the expense so why don’t they just kick the fucking retard out the door save the State a million or two in the process and give us all far less brain damage while they are at it,

      Given Hoskings dumb reasoning billions upon billions of welfare money is poured into the City of Auckland every year so lets empty the shit-hole out and burn it to the fucking ground,

      What none of these idiots can grasp is that there are only X amount of jobs in the economy so it pretty much does not matter just who and where the unemployed are to be found, if every soul in Minginui were forced into Auckland next week and given a job in the current economy then an equal X amount of people give or take 1 or 2 would be made unemployed,

      Hosking is the ugly face of neo-liberal hate speech formulated in His mind so as not to breach ‘codes’ of broadcasting, you can bet, as He admits Himself, he hasn’t got the guts to enter the towns Minginui or Wairoa…

  20. bad12 20
    21 March 2014 at 2:05 pm

    Today is apparently ‘International day for fighting against racism’, my thought on learning this was shouldn’t every day contain an element of such a fight,

    i have my electricity retailer to thank for the above ‘pearl’ of wisdom who kindly provided me with a few days power on special to mark the occasion…

  21. Ron 21
    21 March 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Surprise surprise. The Salvation Army is going to replace the Problem Gambling Foundation. As an organisation the Salvation Army is slightly to the right of Genghis Khan so I can expect to see no more criticism of Sky City or pokies.
    Would love to see the tenders made public but not likely I guess

    • tinfoilhat 21.1
      21 March 2014 at 3:06 pm

      ” As an organisation the Salvation Army is slightly to the right of Genghis Khan so I can expect to see no more criticism of Sky City or pokies.”

      I thought i’d seen it all, but no surely this has to be one of the dumbest comments ever seen on this website.

  22. hoom 22
    21 March 2014 at 2:47 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11223253
    Herald pushing the ‘don’t bother voting’ agenda.

    And yet again Mike Williams is mostly useless.

    First & repeated point should be that if ‘no vote’ from 2011 Election was a party in parliament due to MMP Party Vote it would be the 3rd biggest.

    Because Party Vote directly affects the number of MPs in Parliament for a Party it literally is the case that every vote counts.

    That is serious electoral power which can massively change the face of NZ Parliament if only they would go out & actually vote.

  23. Naturesong 23
    21 March 2014 at 3:05 pm

    Good news everyone, Super Fund sinks $292m into US oil and gas. Idiots.

    Given that if we want to avoid dangerous climate change, no more than 20% of oil reserves can be burned, the superfund has invested $292M in companies which will be being devalued catastrophically sometime within the next few years.

  25. thechangeling 25
    21 March 2014 at 3:41 pm

    Did anyone else watch Andrew Little, Ian Lees Galloway, Carol Beamont and Darien Fenton (and Denise Roach and Jan Logie) give their speeches in parliament on the Employment Relations Amendment farce the other day?
    They were all really fantastic and the Tories that responded didn’t have any cognisant replies at all and instead just said really nasty, illogical, irrational, dumb stuff (as per usual).
    It’s a great shame those speeches weren’t replayed on the MSM because it shows just how streaks ahead Labour and left really are.

    • geoff 25.2
      21 March 2014 at 9:10 pm

      Andrew Little making the excellent point, in his speech, that over the last 20 years productivity has increased 50% and wages have only increased 14%.

      Now where’s that little wanker JustLikeTigerWoods that’s always harping on about wages increasing with productivity?

      • Naki Man 25.2.1
        21 March 2014 at 11:41 pm

        Little Andrew is talking shit. Wages have gone up by 14% in 20 years. Don’t be a fuckwit Geoff even you can’t be that thick. My hourly rate has gone up by almost 50% in eleven years, I know that would be more than the average but 14% increase in 20 years is complete bullshit.

        • McFlock 25.2.1.1
          22 March 2014 at 1:06 am

          is that your nominal rate (i.e. $20/hr on 2003, $30/hr in 2014), or have you adjusted for inflation?

          Because 14% seems to be in the right ballpark. You might be paid twice as much, but you can’t buy as much with it.

  26. phillip ure 26
    21 March 2014 at 4:10 pm

    a relevant john lennon quote..

    “Our society is run by insane people – for insane objectives.

    I think we’re being run by maniacs – for maniacal ends.”

  27. James Thrace 27
    21 March 2014 at 5:33 pm

    6 months to go. Way too close to call it yet. Trotter, Williams, Hooton take note.

    Level pegging. The only way for NZ is green and I’m loving it.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5489-new-zealand-vote-201403202250

    • geoff 27.1
      21 March 2014 at 5:47 pm

      yeah baby!
      that’s right trotter, hooton, other tossers etc, you dont know shit!

      Go LEFT!

    • bad12 27.2
      21 March 2014 at 8:49 pm

      Interesting, IF NZFirst does not get 5% of the vote then i would suggest that national will be one hell of a big Opposition after the 2014 vote,

      The if is a big one because i do not necessarily believe that the above will occur, i am more inclined to believe that National support is a bit weaker than what the Morgan polls it at and the NZFirst a bit stronger,

      i can well believe the Green Party being up there at 13-14% and my mind is starting to change a little in my voting selection for 2014, previously i was considering a Party vote for Mana if the Green Party vote seemed to be holding up closing in on the election,

      Now my belief is swinging toward the idea that New Zealand needs a 15% Green Party and my vote might have to reflect that, sadly leaving Mana to put all its efforts into the Waiariki seat as a means of furthering the movements aims which could well give Mana a pivotal 2 seats in the next Parliament…

      (PS, one hell of a swing for the Green Party between Morgans, was Roy’s son stung by the criticism that He was conflicted by having too many mining interests to be impartial)…

  28. Colonial Viper 28
    21 March 2014 at 6:11 pm

    Commercial banks create money at will; amount of loans created in a day not limited by reserves on hand

    For those who had any remaining doubts, I think the Bank of England clears it up pretty well.

    Commercial banks create money, in the form of bank deposits, by making new loans. When a bank makes a loan, for example to someone taking out a mortgage to buy a house, it does not typically do so by giving them thousands of pounds worth of banknotes. Instead, it credits their bank account with a bank deposit of the size of the mortgage. At that moment, new money is created. For this reason, some economists have referred to bank deposits as ‘fountain pen money’, created at the stroke of bankers’ pens when they approve loans…Reserves are, in normal times, supplied ‘on demand’ by the Bank of England to commercial banks in exchange for other assets on their balance sheets. In no way does the aggregate quantity of reserves directly constrain the amount of bank lending or deposit creation.

    This description of money creation contrasts with the notion that banks can only lend out pre-existing money, outlined in the previous section. Bank deposits are simply a record of how much the bank itself owes its customers. So they are a liability of the bank, not an asset that could be lent out. A related misconception is that banks can lend out their reserves. Reserves can only be lent between banks, since consumers do not have access to reserves accounts at the Bank of England.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-03-20/bank-england-admits-loans-come-first-%E2%80%A6-and-deposits-follow

  29. freedom 29
    21 March 2014 at 6:13 pm

    Latest Horizon Poll arrived. Not sure who they were hawking for, but based on a few of the questions, there are some tragic campaign slogans being considered 🙂

    • Skinny 29.1
      21 March 2014 at 9:10 pm

      Their poll is crap, honestly it’s a vote and plug for any party to jack the poll. Roy Morgan has National slumping. The poll on election day is the one that counts. L/G should romp in as the non voting 800,000 in 2011 are committing as each day rolls by. Non vote will be slashed to 400,000 which will be a near landslide loss for the Tories.

      Relaxed that I am!

  30. Blue 30
    21 March 2014 at 6:29 pm

    Here’s an astounding article from the Sydney Morning Herald, in which a journalist explains why the media ignored a protest that attracted over 100,000 people:

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/march-in-march-two-sides-to-the-story-we-didnt-run-20140321-357tg.html

    • Colonial Viper 30.1
      21 March 2014 at 6:40 pm

      Hmmmmm. The call for civility from the Left by the journalist Maley is reasonable; frontline newspaper journos are rarely the ones who make the call on how prominent or major their story appears on the final newsprint. That is the job of the paper’s editor of course.

      However, what Maley and the MSM appear not to have recognised is the increasing level of ANGER and CYNICISM in many communities regarding the state of the so-called “democracy” that they are now having to cope and survive in.

      Therefore, while calls for “civility” are understandable and reasonable, I believe that far bigger underlying societal currents are being missed.

      • greywarbler 30.1.1
        23 March 2014 at 3:12 pm

        Colonial V
        Maley sounds a bit like Josie Pagani. Floating along giving comfortable little comments about how the natives are revolting untouched by the true emotion, the realities behind it.

        There was an interesting comment on why Obama and O-care is not better regarded by the USA public by Wayne Brittenden this morning and I think the guy that followed also had some interesting things on the USA – basically that the trend is to further Rightness. They will be soon making it the in thing to cut off their little fingers to show their commitment to the Party that serves their version of truth, freedom, the American way and apple pie.

        Wayne Brittenden’s Counterpoint ( 18′ 31″ )
        11:40 With many Americans registering for Obamacare before this year’s cutoff
        point at the end of the month, Wayne takes a timely look at this most enigmatic of US presidents. Finlay follows up with US social critic, Professor Robert Jenson.
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday

  31. RedLogix 31
    21 March 2014 at 7:29 pm

    Here’s my WTF moment of the day:

    A blank DVD worth 75 cents cost him his job, but David Dumolo has now been awarded $3000 compensation in the Employment Court.

    The former Lakes District Health Board (LDHB) IT technician based in Rotorua was fired in May 2010 after the health board found he had acted dishonestly.

    Dumolo took his case to the Employment Relations Authority, who sided with the board, finding he had engaged in serious misconduct and his dismissal was justified.

    In a decision released today, Judge Mark Perkins overturned the authority’s determination, and said the dismissal was unjustifiable.

    Dumolo, also a martial arts instructor, had been training Rotorua hospital staff in self-defence.

    After he took a blank DVD to record some footage for his martial arts students, he was sacked.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/9854595/Man-fired-over-70c-theft-wins-compensation

    Absolutely fucking insane. Someone has clearly abused process to get rid of an employee without any justification whatsoever. None, zero, zilch. I trust the fuckwit in the DHB HR who colluded in this farce has been docked for the legal costs and penalties incurred.

    Even more astounding that the first Court which looked at it upheld the sacking.

    • geoff 31.1
      21 March 2014 at 7:56 pm

      If you need cheering up RL check out the Roy Morgan. All is not lost, oracle trotter got it wrong again.

      • RedLogix 31.1.1
        21 March 2014 at 8:15 pm

        Thanks – that does cheer me up a little.

        Clearly the Nats hubris has caught up with them. At the clear risk of being a wet-blanket I have to point out that Labour is still stuck on it’s tribal 30-33% lower boundary. Love to see this improve into the high 30’s.

        • geoff 31.1.1.1
          21 March 2014 at 8:44 pm

          So would I.
          I think the left needs some positive momentum. There’s still a lot of unnecessary bagging going on from within the left, and people buying into the narrative that the MSM appeared to be pushing.
          If we don’t hang together then….you know what.

      • felix 31.1.2
        21 March 2014 at 8:21 pm

        What did Trotter get wrong, geoff?

        • geoff 31.1.2.1
          21 March 2014 at 8:47 pm

          He’s recently been writing pieces saying Labour was screwed, the election is in the bag for National, Cunliffe sucks blah blah, complete bullshit.

          • RedLogix 31.1.2.1.1
            21 March 2014 at 9:00 pm

            That’s a threadbare interpretation of what he’s saying.

            First up Chris is as tribal leftie as anyone. Period. And he cares deeply.

            Secondly he’s been around long enough to see all the things that can go wrong – and I think at times they haunt him.

            Thirdly he’s a highly skilled writer and perhaps more than any of us he keenly feels the subterranean skews, spins and slants in the much of the msm narrative – and he senses just how much of a head-wind this creates for the left.

            So when he reads the situation as teetering on a knife-edge, that things could very badly in this election I think he’s right to do so. The left needs it’s Cassandra to tell us about our blind spots and moments of overreach and hubris.

            I find him energising and inspiring. Maybe we’re just of the same generation and he makes sense to me.

    • millsy 31.2
      21 March 2014 at 9:53 pm

      Losing a job over 75c.

      This is what you would call an over-reaction. And lots of employers are starting to do it. A short word and the provided oppurtunity to replace the DVD would have been the best course of action.

    • greywarbler 31.3
      23 March 2014 at 3:15 pm

      Agree +100

  32. Ianmac 32
    21 March 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Trying to find the recently published website showing the detail of river water quality over all NZ.
    Am using a CH Ch computer and cannot backtrack to find this excellent detailed online site.
    Anyone?

  33. greywarbler 33
    21 March 2014 at 8:30 pm

    Interesting piece in Radionz Rural News –
    Report reveals landfarm poorly run
    A new report shows a Taranaki landfarm, where oil industry waste is disposed of, was being so poorly run the regional council was forced to intervene and the contractor running the landfarm was removed.

    Fracking hell.