Open mike 27/01/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 27th, 2024 - 87 comments
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87 comments on “Open mike 27/01/2024 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    27 January 2024 at 6:42 am

    Another complete failure by New Zealand’s mainstream corporate media.

    No mention of the ICJ’s judgment,

    No wonder so many New Zealanders are so ill informed.
    No wonder

    If you go on the Herald’s website, nothing, even if you click on world news.

    Ditto for Stuff..

    Ditto got RNZ.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    27 January 2024 at 8:09 am

    Historians write mythistory by default. They believe they write history, yet their subjective take on the topic makes it interpretive. Readers experience that via relativism since myth is a likely story & accounts by historians trend toward mythologising what happened in the past the more they percolate down to subsequent generations.

    King’s history was praised in 2003 for the novelty of focusing on the negative environmental impact of human settlement, and that still feels novel. The first chapter runs like a pre-credits sequence showing the lush abundance of life here before people arrived to ruin it. King goes way back, as far as Gondwana. One of his influences was the Australian writer Tim Flannery, whose book The Future Eaters appeared less than a decade before King started on this history and who argued that humanity had a disastrous, profound impact on Australia’s natural environment, which seems far from a controversial idea now. King argues that the swift consumption of moa, seals and other slow-moving sources of protein by early Māori was a form of future-eating. Māori arrived, they ate well, and then had to adapt.

    That environmental consciousness was novel but it does not explain the remarkable success of this book. The best explanation is that it was simply the right book by the right person at the right moment. https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/25/history-is-a-culture-war/

    It comes as a pleasant surprise to me that he wrote ecohistory, since my bias is always that any academic is useless until they prove the contrary.

    O’Regan praises King for “putting Māori-Pākehā relationships at the forefront of our public conversation”, which included pioneering books on Māori history in the 1970s, before it became politically difficult for a Pākehā writer to do that kind of work. O’Regan also acknowledges King for “identifying Pākehā as an indigenous culture in Aotearoa New Zealand”, which is a controversial view that O’Regan happens to agree with.

    Whoopiedo. So these two guys agree that I'm indigenous to Aotearoa. I gather I'm meant to feel a sense of relief but too bad, I've always felt indigenous.

    The culture wars play out in the closing chapter, which act as a summing-up of New Zealand’s progress and general mood.

    Good on him for at least having a go at that, and I'll reserve judgment until I read it. I suspect that the time since he died could append a more sombre verdict.

    • Dennis Frank 2.1
      27 January 2024 at 8:17 am

      Wait, there's more!

      That makes the addition of Aotearoa to the title a nice move. It also undermines those who have been using, or misusing, King in their fight against official adoption of the Māori language. This issue goes back to the third chapter in the book, “The Great New Zealand Myth”.

      The myth in question was Kupe’s discovery of New Zealand and the Great Fleet, but there was a sub-myth, if you like, which is that pre-European Māori called the country Aotearoa. King explained that the word Aotearoa was actually “popularised and entrenched” by William Pember Reeves in The Long White Cloud (1898) and that “Māori had no name for the country as a whole”… Right-wing culture-war figures such as former TV presenter Peter Williams, former newspaper editor Karl du Fresne and historian Michael Bassett have all enlisted King as support for their argument that New Zealand should not become Aotearoa. “Instead of being proud New Zealanders, we’ll be expected to call ourselves Aotearoaians,” Bassett grumbled.

      Having been in Form 1 when I realised Aotearoa was a better name for our country than the neocolonial double-dutch thing, the year of 1961, I'm amused by right-wingers doing their usual dinosaur dance on the issue. Bassett is always classical Labour dinosaur, simulating death whilst still alive, proving the point spectacularly as he fails to spell Aotearoan correctly…

    • gsays 2.2
      27 January 2024 at 8:47 am

      Thanks for the reminder of this book Dennis.

      I have read it once and got part way through a second time.

      I must admit the idea of Pakeha indigenousness has been bubbling under the surface for me, but not crystallising into those two words. I guess this tome planted those seeds in me, but the culture of the last 20 years has made it difficult for a wanna be progressive pale, stale male to fully embrace and articulate the concept.

      I can't be from anywhere else, the connection to our whenua is profound, being a gracious host is important to me and King's words "And most New Zealanders, whatever their cultural backgrounds, are good-hearted, practical, commonsensical and tolerant. " resonate.

      I thoroughly recommend the book and as the review points out there are a few shortcomings, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good.

      • Michael Scott 2.2.1
        27 January 2024 at 12:39 pm

        I love what Michael King said about being a part of NZ as a Pakeha

        "For me, then, to be a Pakeha on the cusp of the 21st century; is not to be European. it is not to be alien in my own country. It is to be a non-Maori New Zealander who is aware and proud of my antecedents, but who identifies as intimately with this land and as strongly as any Maori. It is to be, as I have already argued, another kind of indigenous New Zealander."

        • gsays 2.2.1.1
          27 January 2024 at 3:32 pm

          Thanks Michael, that sums it up nicely for me.

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.2
          27 January 2024 at 3:52 pm

          "…but who identifies as intimately with this land and as strongly as any Maori…"

          Did your antecedents arrive at a place where no human had ever set foot?

          First peoples are first.

          • weka 2.2.1.2.1
            27 January 2024 at 6:21 pm

            Yes. And identifying with the land isn't the same as belonging to it.

            I wish we could get past this though, and better understand the pathways for non-Māori to belong here beyond the might of the state and the rights established that way.

            • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.2.1.1
              27 January 2024 at 6:32 pm

              It's easy enough, on a personal level – sit and listen, learn what the passerines are saying. Sit and look – learn what the plants are signalling. Once you know what the tūī at dawn are saying, you're in 🙂

              • weka …
                27 January 2024 at 7:33 pm

                there's a big gap between were most people are and that, atlthough I think a lot more people could do that relatively easily if not for their life and society. Which does take us beyond the personal level.

            • bwaghorn 2.2.1.2.1.2
              28 January 2024 at 9:45 am

              I wish we could get past this though, and better understand the pathways for non-Māori to belong

              Maybe not being told we are lesser kiwis ,with less rights.

              because the average non Maori kiwi, who has no legal right to another country, has any advantage I can assure you, other than being free from being told we are victims.

              This doesn't mean we don't honor the treaty and we don't move heaven and earth to lift moari outcomes.

              I'm all for Maori seats on councils and boards but they still need to be elected positions,

              Shit if I got upset and went and blocked citizens from legally accessing a boat ramp I'd be arrested and moved on very quickly I expect .unlike our grumpy freind in the north,
              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/507618/ngati-kahu-block-boat-ramp-in-fishing-protest

              • weka …
                28 January 2024 at 11:20 am

                Maybe not being told we are lesser kiwis ,with less rights.

                Completely agree. Where do you see this happening most?

                • bwaghorn …
                  28 January 2024 at 5:13 pm

                  More a vibe , than actually spoken word, but will scratch the cells to clarify,

                  Been waiting for some lefties to apologize for being white, similar to an ex leaders apology for being a man .

          • gsays 2.2.1.2.2
            28 January 2024 at 12:03 pm

            This opens up an interesting conversation on identity.

            Regardless of what yr opinions on identity are, I don't see folk flocking to another's definition if it is at odds with how they feel about themselves.

        • SPC 2.2.1.3
          27 January 2024 at 4:04 pm

          There is the concept of nativism.

          Generally it is related to the idea that those born in a land to someone born in that land, are of that nation or society.

          Some pose it as a pejorative, where it is anti-migrant or anti-immigration (though it is notable that often migrants themselves have issues with high rates of migration once they become permanent residents and then citizens).

        • weka 2.2.1.4
          27 January 2024 at 6:18 pm

          Michael, we require links with quotes here, or if this is from a book, then a reference. Please supply either now, thanks.

        • SPC 2.2.1.5
          27 January 2024 at 6:39 pm

          It's a quote from Being Pakeha Now.

          https://www.nationdatesnz.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/King-1999.pdf

          King’s basic idea here can be captured in the following quote which is reproduced on the cover of the book:

          ‘Pakeha New Zealanders who are committed to this land and its people are no less “indigenous” than Maori.’

          King recognises and respects the place of Maori in New Zealand, and argues that Pakeha too belong inescapably to this country and in fact have no other. They (we) have become a second indigenous culture, that of Pakeha New Zealanders.

          https://thisisgraeme.me/2012/05/23/michael-kings-being-pakeha-now/

          http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-pakeha-quest.html

    • joe90 2.3
      27 January 2024 at 12:33 pm

      I've always felt indigenous

      Both Massey and Lord Jellicoe thought they were descendants of a lost tribe of Israel, and that the king of England carried the bloodline of Moses, too.

      • Dennis Frank 2.3.1
        27 January 2024 at 1:13 pm

        Jellicoe the first or second? If the latter, I see he did well in his maiden parliamentary speech (despite spending 19 years there being too diffident to speak):

        Like all your Lordships, I felt, and feel, a deep sense of shock, indeed revulsion, at the brutal butchery of the young King and his family, and of that great, and greatly human, statesman, Nuri Pasha. I have also been shocked by the tendency which one sees current at the moment to write off the Nuri regime as decadent, feudal and corrupt.

        That picture, in my view, is a travesty of the truth … As part of the admirable development programme which the Nuri regime was carrying through there was a large schools programme. These schools were built for the purpose your Lordships might expect-to educate Iraqis in. But the Iraqis did not believe that; they thought-it was a very widespread belief which one could not eradicate-that these schools were camouflaged barracks intended for the British Army when they reoccupied Iraq. These are the sorts of 'ingrowing toenails' in the Iraqi consciousness which I feel we must try to eradicate". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Jellicoe,_2nd_Earl_Jellicoe

        Ingrowing toenails in any group mind are a problem, although one one rather expects the Iraqis to nowadays demonstrate considerable expertise in their use – we ought to get our man in Baghdad to write a paper on that.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Iraq

        As for the other guy, seems like he had a few clues:

        Massey was a member of the British-Israel Word Federation, an amalgamation of 'Kingdom Identity Groups' who believe Celts and Anglo-Saxons are the Covenant People, descended from the biblical tribes of Israel. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84850415/massey-aimed-to-protect-lost-tribes-of-israel-with-racist-policies-academic-says

        I didn't know the Brits & Israelis had co-created a word federation, so thanks for the tip. Federal words are top-level memes. They organise governance. Serious stuff. Imperial racism was merely dross decorating the top of that to keep the voters happy. Gotta have plenty of imperial dross dressing up the place when you operate an empire without an emperor…

        • joe90 2.3.1.1
          27 January 2024 at 1:43 pm

          The first.

          Furthermore, three Admirals of the Fleet, the right Hon. Sir John Jellicoe, who also served as Governor General of New Zealand and thus shared the faith with Prime Minister Massey, Admiral Sir Doveton Sturdee, Bart., K.C.B. and Admiral Lord Fisher professed their thoughts in favor or Britain's Israelitish origin.

          […]

          A devoutly religious man, Fisher saw the hand of God acting on behalf of the British in their victory over the Germans. In a letter to Jellicoe dated April 29th, 1916, he took comfort in the fact that "our faith is the same, my beloved Jellicoe, and the only reason we shall win this War is because we are the Lost 10 Tribes of Israel!" 144 "The only hypothesis," he later asserted, "to explain why
          we win in spite of incredible blunders is that we are the lost tribes of Israel."

          https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/323272223.pdf

          btw, they're still around.

          http://www.britishisrael.co.uk/contact.php

          • Dennis Frank 2.3.1.1.1
            27 January 2024 at 2:59 pm

            Ah, a mason:

            Jellicoe was promoted to Admiral of the Fleet on 3 April 1919. He became Governor-General of New Zealand in September 1920 and while there also served as Grand Master of New Zealand's Masonic Grand Lodge. Following his return to England, he was created Earl Jellicoe and Viscount Brocas of Southampton… As First Sea Lord Jellicoe was awarded the Grand Cordon of the Belgian Order of Leopold on 21 April 1917, the Russian Order of St. George, 3rd Class on 5 June 1917, the Grand Cross of the Italian Military Order of Savoy on 11 August 1917 and the Grand Cordon of the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun (29/8/1917).

            And obviously a star on the international awards circuit! Irritated by that toad, Churchill, but then so usually was most of the establishment back then…

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jellicoe,_1st_Earl_Jellicoe

      • SPC 2.3.2
        27 January 2024 at 2:42 pm

        Then came modern DNA testing. And so another myth fell, alongside a 6000 year old earth, a worldwide flood, and when the Americans learn to read and comprehend end time judgment kingdom come in real history on earth (rather than faith about continuance).

        • Michael P 2.3.2.1
          27 January 2024 at 11:02 pm

          The flood myth isn't a myth. Regardless all myths start out from some sort of real event.

          But in terms of massive floods the one believed to be Noah's flood in the bible and the great flood documented by pretty much all of the ancient religions was probably the one that occurred around 12800 (approx) years ago at the start of what became known as the Younger Dryas period of about 1200 years of severe cooling and adverse climate conditions which led to mass global extinctions. (up to 80% of 40kg plus mammals in Nth America for example which is believed to have been the area where the most devastating impact occured.

          Here's quite a good description of what may have happened:

          https://beta.capeia.com/planetary-science/2019/06/03/disappearance-of-ice-age-megafauna-and-the-younger-dryas-impact#:~:text=Population%20decline%20and%20extinction,%25%20in%20Sub%2DSaharan%20Africa.

          and here:

          https://humanoriginproject.com/younger-dryas-event-extinction-prehistoric-period/

          Some believe (and there is a growing body of evidence) that an impact event caused massive flooding due to ice meltwaters (the earth was just starting to come out of the last ice age) and was the event that triggered massive climate change within a very short period of time.

          In terms of it being global. Well the areas of Europe and all around the Mediterranean would have been the whole world to the peoples living there at the time.

          • SPC 2.3.2.1.1
            28 January 2024 at 1:34 pm

            The bible flood story is a myth.

            A post ice age rising sea level is not a flood where the entire land of the earth is under water (because of an event caused by God) and every land (and air) based species was reduced to one family.

            There have been population bottlenecks amongst species, but not for species at the same time.

            Either evolution is somehow pushing each species to have its own version, which seems unlikely, or each species has had almost all its genetic diversity purged – which implies that its population was once very small.

            What's more, these population bottlenecks seemingly all occurred between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago.

            Much of the coverage has interpreted this as implying some sort of global event, an unspecified catastrophe that slashed the population of pretty much every animal species. However, Stoeckle and Thaler do not argue that, saying instead that species experience bottlenecks every few hundred thousand years due to the rough and tumble of life.

            Second, there is no trace in the geological record of any global event in the last 200,000 years. Any event that slashed populations that significantly would surely have led to a noticeable spike in the extinction rate, and there isn't one. There are of course the extinctions linked to humans, but those occurred at separate times and locations, not simultaneously across the planet.

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelmarshalleurope/2018/11/26/no-humans-are-probably-not-all-descended-from-a-single-couple-who-lived-200000-years-ago/?sh=5bf05bc17cd8

            But they would have to concede one human bottleneck had profound consequences. And it did appear to cause a population decline worldwide c60-70,000 years ago.

            All living non-Africans, from Europeans to Australia’s aboriginal people, can trace most of their ancestry to humans who were part of a landmark migration out of Africa beginning some 50,000 to 60,000 years ago, according to numerous genetic studies published in recent years. Reconstructions of climate suggest that lower sea levels created several advantageous periods for humans to leave Africa for the Arabian Peninsula and the Middle East, including one about 55,000 years ago.

            Our DNA includes that of Neanderthal of Europe and Denisovans of Asia indicating some hominin populations probably including homo sapien when they arrived (but at low levels).

            https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/essential-timeline-understanding-evolution-homo-sapiens-180976807/

            In terms of it being global. Well the areas of Europe and all around the Mediterranean would have been the whole world to the peoples living there at the time.

            There was no time when that area was entirely under water. Europe had the post ice age event placing Daggerland under water, and not long after the Black Sea event c 5500BCE. There was then another flood event in lower Sumer c5000 years ago.

            The bible story is religious myth, with the purpose to pose God as ultimate power over life and death, and connected to the emergence in human history of the coming of the age of empire (where peoples and nations came under the rule of an imperial capital).

            • Macro 2.3.2.1.1.1
              28 January 2024 at 1:42 pm

              Summed up beautifully by Danny Bhoy here:

            • Michael P 2.3.2.1.1.2
              29 January 2024 at 2:12 am

              Yes the Bible flood story is a myth as is most of the bible.

              But many myths are possibly based upon an initial profound event and as the story is passed on down through the generations it gets exaggerated and spiritual/supernatural bits are added to explain 'miracles' and so on.

              It's entirely possible that some guy called Noah was a man of a village or particular tribe of ancient people and managed to survive a flood catastrophe by jumping in a boat with some of the villages animals. (maybe a couple of goats and a couple of birds, etc.)

              In their times the whole world was limited to a small area. Over generations the story gets passed down and over time gets exaggerated and God gets involved (how else could he have survived when nobody else did) until it becomes myth.

              Many ancient religions have flood myths and it's entirely possible they are just stories passed on about an event that happened. A group of devastating impacts causing massive meltwater release and tsunamis in the ancient world of course becomes Gods or the Gods doing because ancient peoples didn't have scientific explanations for such events. If the whole world (your village and the surrounding areas) gets wiped out by a giant Tsunami 10,000 years ago then of course the explanation becomes supernatural and it must be punishment, etc

              I'm not saying myths are true and factual, I'm just saying that many could easily have their starting point as an actual event. Why would ancients just make up stories about global flood catastrophes?

              The Trojan war is mythology, but now historians believe that Troy was real and have found evidence that it was located at the site of Hisarlik, in northwest Turkey. , etc. It's entirely possible that there was some soldier fighting in the war who happened to be very skilled, brave and who killed many enemy soldiers. Story telling about the war and some poetic license from Homer led to the mythical story of the hero Achilles, son of Zeus.

              A more modern example could be the battle at Rourkes Drift, which has been exaggerated a bit over the years and has reached almost mythical status. If it had happened in ancient times it could easily have become a myth after a 1000 years or so.

      • gsays 2.3.3
        27 January 2024 at 3:31 pm

        Your point is?

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    27 January 2024 at 8:57 am

    Where's Wally David?

    ""I think the most fascinating bit of all of that is that where the debate has been place so far and that’s at Tūrangawaewae marae last Saturday and then at Rātana this week, guess who wasn't there? David Seymour. If you want to have a debate, turn up and debate."

    Why didn't Seymour front up?

    Where are his bovver boys here on TS to explain his "scarcity"?

    https://frankmacskasy.substack.com/p/the-desperate-cynicism-of-david-seymour

    • Dennis Frank 3.1
      27 January 2024 at 9:22 am

      I read his no-show as a vote of no-confidence in himself combined with pragmatic acceptance that he didn't want his lack of maori solidarity to get more obvious.

      However, Robert, you are right to point to the scarcity dimension of his tactical move: scarcity increases value. According to the scarcity theory of Chicago-school economism, he must believe that making himself scarce drives up his market value.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1
        27 January 2024 at 9:37 am

        I hoped someone might say,

        "In the deli section of Countdown, South Dunedin", but so far, no one has 🙂

        • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1.1
          27 January 2024 at 2:50 pm

          100% Now Robert… Pest Control?

          • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1
            27 January 2024 at 3:13 pm

            You can buy at rat-bait at Countdown called, "White Privilege".

            Irresistible to pernicious pests.

            • Foreign waka 3.1.1.1.1.1
              27 January 2024 at 4:11 pm

              Is "white privilege" not also a racist statement when used in such manner? Like an insult with a reference to a rodent. It assumes that all people with white skin are the same, colonial suppressors in one fell swoop, and using such terms is in my view as bad as any emotional appeasement. A low point in intellectual exchange no doubt.

              Perhaps then another book might be an interesting read to add to the discussion. "The treason of the Intellectuals" by Julian Brenda.

              Niall Ferguson | Uncommon Knowledge

              Enjoy your weekend.

              .

              • weka …
                27 January 2024 at 6:16 pm

                I don't actually know what Robert is meaning there, but I hope he's not implying death to an MP, because wishing death is a bannable offence here.

                However I don't think white privilege means all white people are the same. It's a term used to point to systems that grant Pākehā advantages. It doesn't say all Pākehā all have the same advantages, nor that people of colour don't have any advantages. It's just shorthand for pointing out systemic inequity.

              • Robert Guyton …
                27 January 2024 at 6:35 pm

                What!!! Weka, you should know me by now.
                ” …because wishing death is a bannable offence here”
                Every other week, I get (subtlety/overtly) threatened with banning!
                ???????????????????????????????????????????????????

                • weka …
                  27 January 2024 at 7:46 pm

                  I already said I didn’t know what you meant. That was an opening to clarify.

                  The reference to banning isn’t personal to you. Anyone that wishes death on another risks this.

              • Robert Guyton …
                27 January 2024 at 6:38 pm

                "It assumes that all people with white skin are the same…"

                No, it doesn't, you do.

                Those who are attracted to the "White Privilege" bait, are those who are attracted to white privilege.

                I'm not.

                Are you?

  4. gsays 4
    27 January 2024 at 9:20 am

    There is nothing new under the sun.

    I thought I would have a wee crack at Wags above about him defending Stuff's reporting efforts. I wanted to ask him if Stuff had reported on the Hannibal directive yet.

    That led me to look at TS history and found Joe90 had mentioned it just shy of 10 years ago.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04082014/#comment-860139

    On that thread, there is talk of Putin's horrors (flight MH17 was a recent event), a link to an Bill Maher opinion on the internet bringing out the worst of us (with a plea for "seeking "understanding first" and attempting to reach common ground rather than fight.") and korero about Israel and genocide visited on Palestinians.

  5. Jenny 5
    27 January 2024 at 10:15 am

    The interim ruling issued by the court ordered Israel to take all measures to prevent genocidal acts, and to take effective steps to ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians

    “The State of Israel shall submit a report to the court on all measures taken to give effect to this order within one month as from the date of the order”

    AGAINST: Judge Julia Sebutinde (Uganda) and Judge ad hoc Aaron Barak (Israel)

    https://www.justsecurity.org/91486/icj-judgment-israel-south-africa-genocide-convention/

    Whether Israel abides by the court's order to submit a report, or not. We won't need to wait one month to see what measures if any are being taken by Israel, to give affect to this order.

  6. Rolling-on-Gravel 6
    27 January 2024 at 12:28 pm

    A 7.5% spending cut to Whaikaha the Ministry for Disabled people, Pacific Peoples, and so on is on the table. Shame on Nicola Willis, David Seymour, Winston Peters, and Chris Luxon and their parties!

    The spending cuts range from 6.5 to 7.5%. This will have a devastating impact upon Aotearoa/New Zealand's ability to properly function for a long time.

    In the name of austerity, Aotearoa/NZ is destroying itself.

    We need to make this an one-term government.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/507659/the-public-service-agencies-asked-to-cut-spending

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1
      27 January 2024 at 12:43 pm

      Across-the-board random-number cuts like this are a clear sign of blind ideology.

      Cut 7.5%….what if the 7.5% cut ends up costing us 20%? What if the cut is socially very valuable compared to the proposed tax cuts for rich people? Don't know, no analysis, don't care.

      Brilliant economic managers, my arse.

      • Rolling-on-Gravel 6.1.1
        27 January 2024 at 1:40 pm

        Here's the full list:

        Agencies asked to make 7.5 percent cuts:

        Ministry for Culture and Heritage

        Ministry for Pacific Peoples

        Ministry for Women

        Whaikaha – Ministry for Disabled people

        Ministry for Primary Industries

        Ministry of Education

        Ministry for the Environment

        Ministry of Defence

        Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment

        Ministry of Housing and Urban Development

        Ministry of Transport Public Service Commission

        Statistics New Zealand

        Agencies asked to make 6.5 percent cuts:

        Department of Conservation

        Department of Internal Affairs

        Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

        Education Review Office

        Executive Board for the Elimination of Family Violence and Sexual Violence

        Inland Revenue Department

        Justice Cluster (Crown Law Office, Department of Corrections, Ministry of Justice, New Zealand Police, Serious Fraud Office)

        Land Information New Zealand

        Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade

        Ministry of Health

        Ministry of Māori Development – Te Puni Kōkiri

        Ministry of Social Development

        New Zealand Customs Service

        New Zealand Defence Force

        Office of the Clerk of the House of Representatives

        Oranga Tamariki – Ministry for Children

        Parliamentary Counsel Office

        Parliamentary Service

        Te Arawhiti – Office for Māori Crown Relations

        The Treasury

        Te Arawhiti – Office for Māori Crown Relations

        Department of Conservation

        Department of Internal Affairs

        • Mike the Lefty 6.1.1.1
          27 January 2024 at 1:54 pm

          I see there is no planned budget cut for the Ministry of Silly Smirks.

        • Kay 6.1.1.2
          27 January 2024 at 2:41 pm

          Are Parliamentary services (or whichever body is reponsible) able to find savings by cutting MP expenses for things they can afford themselves out of their salaries, eg taxi fares to and from airports? (or make them take the airport bus when appropriate?)

          Perhaps it's time to start means-testing politicians for everything over and above their base salaries. If they have over x amount of savings/assests that can be converted to cash/income from investments, then they don't need that accommodation allowance, travel allowance etc. If it's good enough for those at the bottom of the heap….

  8. SPC 8
    27 January 2024 at 2:56 pm

    The Israeli appointed judge on the ICJ agreed with two of its interim judgments

    which stated that Israel must prevent and punish any incitement to commit genocide against the Palestinian people in Gaza, and that Israel must take “immediate and effective measures” to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.

    Barak said he voted for those orders in the hope that they would "help to decrease tensions and discourage damaging rhetoric" while easing the "consequences of the armed conflict for the most vulnerable.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-26/ty-article/icj-rules-israel-must-avoid-genocidal-acts-in-gaza-stops-short-of-ordering-cease-fire/0000018d-4606-d35c-a39f-ee5e5b7e0000

  9. SPC 9
    27 January 2024 at 2:59 pm

    The rising Europe to Asia shipping costs are having an impact on China.

    DUBAI, Jan 26 (Reuters) – Chinese officials have asked their Iranian counterparts to help rein in attacks on ships in the Red Sea by the Iran-backed Houthis, or risk harming business relations with Beijing, four Iranian sources and a diplomat familiar with the matter said.

    The discussions about the attacks and trade between China and Iran took place at several recent meetings in Beijing and Tehran, the Iranian sources said, declining to provide details about when they took place or who attended.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/china-presses-iran-rein-houthi-attacks-red-sea-sources-say-2024-01-26/T

  10. Robert Guyton 10
    27 January 2024 at 3:37 pm

    "At the crux of his inquiry into the key motive forces of our civilization’s course is Vogt’s insistence that while much is broken with the exploitive consumerism behind the world’s government and industry, much more depends on and is mendable by the concerted collective action of ordinary people."

    It's up to us…

    https://www.themarginalian.org/2021/02/18/william-vogt-road-to-survival/

    • Robert Guyton 10.1
      27 January 2024 at 3:40 pm

      "Drastic measures are inescapable. Above everything else, we must reorganize our thinking. If we are to escape the crash we must abandon all thought of living unto ourselves. We form an earth-company, and the lot of the Indiana farmer can no longer be isolated from that of the Bantu… An eroding hillside in Mexico or Yugoslavia affects the living standard and probability of survival of the American people… Today’s white bread may force a break in the levees, and flood New Orleans next spring. This year’s wheat from Australia’s eroding slopes may flare into a Japanese war three decades hence."

      Link in previous comment 🙂

  11. joe90 11
    27 January 2024 at 3:44 pm

    Living in the dumbest of times.

    @EdMix13

    Oh No! They're on to you guys. The jig is up,

    @ProfBrianCox @bgreene @LKrauss1 @neiltyson

    @PimToolNews
    Tim Pool had two guys on his show to debunk the "man-made climate change cult narrative", and the conversation went off the rails so much they ended up talking about how scientists are trying to open "spiritual portals" and summon literal demons using particle accelerators.

    https://twitter.com/PimToolNews/status/1750272814995980329

    https://twitter.com/EdMix13/status/1750986613901910157

  12. Robert Guyton 12
    27 January 2024 at 6:47 pm

    Chris Trotter is using very violent language:

    "At the slightest sign that National was about welch on the Coalition Agreement, Act and NZ First were expected to shoot the Coalition Government in the head."

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2024/01/by-time-we-got-to-turangawaewae.html

  13. Robert Guyton 13
    27 January 2024 at 7:00 pm

    This, from Chris Trotter:

    "and if it then refuses to step away from the coalition and move to the cross-benches; then somewhere between a tenth and a fifth of the electorate – and possibly a lot more – will find themselves in the market for a political champion who rejects entirely the niceties of traditional Māori-Pakeha relations, in favour of a new and unabashed ethno-nationalist vocabulary and manifesto."

    Watch out!

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2024/01/by-time-we-got-to-turangawaewae.html

  14. SPC 14
    27 January 2024 at 8:30 pm

    Maybe it is time for the Civilian under Beehive occupation to investigate.

    Were they kiore, rats who came with the indigenous peoples migration?

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/01/dunedin-countdown-rat-infestation-being-treated-with-urgency-says-ministry-for-primary-industries.html

    Or were they rats who came with an earlier people?

    https://teara.govt.nz/en/when-was-new-zealand-first-settled/page-5

    Should kiore who came before the Maori, or with the Maori, have no more rights than rats who came with European settlers?

    https://frankmacskasy.substack.com/p/the-desperate-cynicism-of-david-seymour

    PS Matiu Rata (ran a parliamentary comic library) and Door Mouse creates them, unlock the doors.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5859970/