Open mike 25/01/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 25th, 2024 - 85 comments
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85 comments on “Open mike 25/01/2024 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    25 January 2024 at 6:46 am

    News out of South Africa is that the ICJ will be releasing their ruling for an interim order on Israel to stop the war on Gaza.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/south-africa-expects-icj-judgment-gaza-emergency-measures-friday-news24-cites-2024-01-24/

    After the interim order is given or not, the case will go to a full hearing. Germany has filed a declaration with the World Court to intervene in this hearing in support of Israel.

    Why is Namibia furious at Germany's ICJ intervention supporting Israel?



    Aljazeera host of "Counting The Cost" Adrian Finighan

    @1:33 minutes

    "….in 2021 Berlin acknowledged committing genocide in Namibia"

    "..shouldn't a country responsible for two genocides be actively looking to prevent a third?"

    @4:35 minutes

    "Absolutely Adrian I cannot agree more with you….
    …..particularly problematic is the way that they framed South Africa's complaint as an instrumentalization of the international court of justice. Which means basically it [Germany] thinks it's an illegitimate suit, it's something that should not happen.

    After all we've heard during the pleadings in the past days last week. That is quite a strong statement. Therefore, I'm absolutely not surprised by the reaction on the on the side of Namibia…."

    Namibia has requested that Germany withdraw their intervention in support of Israel at the World Court. Personally speaking, I would have thought that Germany would be the last country that would be trying to stop a court looking into a case of alleged genocide.

    The people of Namibia suffered a genocide at the hands of the German colonial empire. Germany has admitted to it.

    Germany has zero right to be supporting the slaughter of another indigenous people, at the hand of another occupying colonial power.

    32 states intervened in the case of Ukraine vs. Russia, to argue the merits of Ukraine's case against Russia alleging Ukraine committed genocide in the Donbas.

    But only one state, Germany, has put its name down to intervene in support of Israel at the United Nations International Court of Justice, the ICJ, also known as the World Court. Not even the US, Israel's biggest backer, has put up their hand to support Israel in the World Court.

    Why is that?

    The state of Israel was founded after WWII with the connivance of the US who were trying to form a counterweight to the power and influence of the British Empire in the Middle East.

    At the end of the war, displaced Jewish refugees favoured destination of choice was America. As well as making it hard for displaced persons to enter the US. The US authorities gave Zionists access to the displaced persons camps in the US zone of control in Europe to gather recruits to go to Palestine. The British imperialists tried to resist the founding of the state of Israel and interned the Jewish refugees that the US had incited to go to Israel on the island of Cypress.

    The Zionists have always been a proxy force for American imperialism in the Middle East.

    The last gasp of the British Empire in the Middle East, was the Suez Crisis. After that the US became the dominant Western imperialist power in the region. Israel became US imperialism's unsinkable aircraft carrier threatening any Arab country that dared step out of line.

    While the victorious super powers were squabbling over the spoils of war, what about the defeated imperialist powers Germany, Italy, Japan? They became junior partners to the new global hegemon.

    When you can't do dirty work yourself you get someone else to do it.

    Both Germany and Japan have been called on to put pressure on the World Court to to make sure their judges on the ICJ vote the way the US wants.

    https://www.icj-cij.org/home#:~:text=LATEST%20NEWS&text=On%2011%20January%202024%2C%20HE,Peace%20Palace%20in%20The%20Hague.

    Shame on those countries that have chosen to do it.

    Footnote:

    If anyone thinks I am picking on Germany and Germans, I am not. Every capitalist country wants to expand its influence, every capitalist country aspires to be an imperialist, or junior imperialist, even lil'ol New Zealand.

    Growth expansion imperialism, colonialism is written into the DNA of capitalism, every imperialist country commits massacres and genocides to maintain their rule.

    New Zealand is no exception.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-spoiling-of-samoa/HEDXHCD4LKX7MEWD7AZ5H6TGMQ/

    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/black-saturday-nz-police-open-fire-on-mau-protestors-in-apia-nine-samoans-killed

    https://natlib.govt.nz/records/23143678

    • SPC 1.1
      25 January 2024 at 8:31 am

      Historic guilt of empire is irrelevant to this, as is the status of Jews as a past victim of empire themselves (Christian, Moslem and German). This is now. Post 1945 and the UN of member states and related international law.

      Whether Palestinians (Arabic language and cultural order came with Islam after 600CE – before then most locals were Christians) are indigenous or Jews is irrelevant (they each have similar DNA northern Semite) and both are Semitic cultures.

      Everyone knows the case of genocide will not succeed and is merely an attempt to get a interim order for a cease-fire.

      This is not even a case of ethnic cleansing (the case of this in WB is far stronger).

      There is a case for war crimes, and to prevent further loss of civilian life, this is a device to realise a cease-fire.

      And given Russia ignored an interim order of this court (and others before them), as per Ukraine, if Israel does so will depend on other factors (guess why USA is not involved).

      • Subliminal 1.1.1
        25 January 2024 at 12:38 pm

        How very arrogant of you. It is plain that "everyone" does not agree. Have you even bothered to look at the heros welcome when the ICJ team arrived back in SA? There is historically huge support between SA and Palestinians.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/1/15/south-african-genocide-case-legal-team-returns-to-heroes-welcome-2

        Just another example of the inability of people like yourself to empathise outside the comfort zone of your own inflation adjusted values of life

        • SPC 1.1.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 12:50 pm

          own inflation adjusted values of life

          Is that some sort of code, a sly anti-semitic trope?

          • Subliminal 1.1.1.1.1
            25 January 2024 at 3:48 pm

            I've no idea what you're talking about. Its a reference to your support of Maersk profits against Palestinian lives. I would add that obviously, the relationship is an inverse one.

            • SPC 1.1.1.1.1.1
              25 January 2024 at 4:18 pm

              They pass on costs to those who use their ships to transport goods to market, and they to consumers.

              As for the impact of that inflation, a lot would be even higher cost for fertilizer and food out of south east Europe to Asia and maybe electronics and EV's between Asia and Europe.

              • Subliminal …
                25 January 2024 at 4:35 pm

                Look SPC, I can be a bit dim but a light just illuminated in my head that said for you to be upset at a comment directed at yourself with the phrase "people like you" , and call me antisemitic, you may be an Israeli. If this is the case, I unreservedly apologise and regardless, will only address your comments in future.

                [Stop playing the man. This is your warning – Incognito]

                • SPC …
                  25 January 2024 at 5:00 pm

                  Meh.

                  Once upon a time, if you criticised American policy you were called anti-American, a fellow traveller with the commie left or this century terrorists (and probably still). Some of us were visited by local police as suspects in the "threat" to the visiting golfer Tiger Woods most likely because some CIA agent thought manipulating them to act that way was both funny and a way to get our public opinion and government onto their Iraq regime change play.

                  Once upon a time, if you supported a two state solution that made one a Zionist or an anti-Zionist depending on who responded (and probably still). And that could mean all sorts of stuff to them and all sorts of language gets used, because all those Zionists or anti-Zionists are * and or **.

                  I was just wondering what "your own inflation adjusted values of life" was about, as it did not seem to make any sense. If I think something is anti-semitic I will say so.

                • Incognito …
                  25 January 2024 at 5:08 pm

                  Mod note

      • Jenny 1.1.2
        25 January 2024 at 4:42 pm

        ‘
        SPC @1.1
        "Everyone knows the case of genocide will not succeed and is merely an attempt to get a interim order for a cease-fire."

        Nobody knows. But if I were to guess, I would guess that it would be the other way round. The interim order for a ceasefire in Gaza will fail. The charge of genocide will be proved.

        My guess is based on 'Realpolitik', especially as it is practiced in international affaires.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik#:~:text=Realpolitik%20(German%3A%20%5B%CA%81e%CB%88a%CB%90lpoli%CB%8Cti%CB%90k%5D,%2C%20moral%2C%20or%20ethical%20premises.

        My guess based on realpolitik, is South Africa's attempt to get an interim order for a cease-fire in Gaza will fail. The political pressure from the US and its allied states on the judges of the ICJ will is too great.

        Many years from now, the allegation of genocide will eventually be proven. The 84 page mountain of evidence of genocidal acts and statements of intent to commit genocide contained in the Brief by South Africa is damning, I am certain that even more damning evidence will be revealed with the passing of time.

        Even the current available evidence is overwhelming, but by the time a final judgment is made, it will all be academic, and too late to make a difference.

        Realpolitik:

        University of Chicago Press Journals logo

        Is the International Court of Justice Biased?

        Abstract

        …..We test the charge of bias using statistical methods. We find strong evidence that (1) judges favor the states that appoint them….

        https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/430765#:~:text=The%20International%20Court%20of%20Justice%20(ICJ)%20has%20jurisdiction%20over%20disputes,the%20states%20that%20appoint%20them.

        By the end of Friday in the Hague we will know if Realpolitik or Justice is the winner

    • Foreign waka 1.2
      25 January 2024 at 9:07 am

      Germany was always closely aligned to the US (since the 1600's).

      They seem to also have a collective paranoia to be seen anti semitic since the WWII.

      The position taken by the representative at the UN does not necessary reflect the opinion of the general population.

      The ordinary folk is often left at the sidelines of political agendas, in Germany and many other states.

      I do like your article. We also have to be careful not to be the "handmaiden" of any party at play.

      https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/history-between-usa-and-germany

  2. Grey Area 2
    25 January 2024 at 7:02 am

    I've always enjoyed reading Verity Johnson for some lighter reading. Her latest opinion piece is excellent and weightier than many previous ones.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350156501/why-we-need-fight-treaty-waitangi

  3. Sanctuary 3
    25 January 2024 at 8:15 am

    MMP is a failure.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/507471/official-documents-suggest-a-nz-first-minister-wants-to-freeze-excise-tax-on-cigarettes-but-she-denies-it

    Only MMP would allow anywhere power a party of lying nincompoops with such a frankly partisan, grubby agenda to try and create a voting base out of bad policy.

    • Robert Guyton 3.1
      25 January 2024 at 8:48 am

      Seems evil, this vein of duplicity that runs through this Government.

    • weka 3.2
      25 January 2024 at 8:49 am

      wouldn't that still have to go through cabinet?

      It's interesting to consider though whether NZ would be struggling to find competent Ministers and MPs at this point in time if it was still under FPP.

    • Belladonna 3.3
      25 January 2024 at 9:30 am

      Under FPP – as the result of the 2023 election you would have an overwhelming National Party government (having won a substantial majority of the electorates) – possibly in coalition with the 2 ACT MPs – but with no NZF representation. You'd have a few GP electorate MPs and the 5 TPM ones – in opposition, along with a pretty tiny Labour Party.

      While there would be no NZF representation – you would have a centre-right government which would regard itself as having an overwhelming mandate (since they would hold well over 2/3 of the seats).

      Characterizing MMP as a failure because it hasn't (on this occasion) given you the government you wanted – is pretty short-sighted.

      • Graeme 3.3.1
        25 January 2024 at 9:48 am

        You'd also have a national Government with an awful lot of new, inexperienced, and going on recent selection successes, grossly incompetent MPs.

        Similar, and probably much worse, to the current mess

        • Belladonna 3.3.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 10:55 am

          I don't feel that the record of the last year inclines me to believe in the competence of the Labour Ministers in the previous government.
          Any new government, coming in after a spell in opposition, is going to consist of predominantly inexperienced MPs.

      • Sanctuary 3.3.2
        25 January 2024 at 9:49 am

        But as a counter point, under FPP governments don't have to pander to a lunatic fringe in order to gain/retain power.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 3.3.2.1
          25 January 2024 at 10:05 am

          One voter's leader of a lunatic fringe is another's acting PM – hang in there Luxon.

          An office titled "deputy prime minister" has existed since 1949. The deputy typically holds important ministerial portfolios and, by convention, becomes acting prime minister in the absence or incapacity of the prime minister.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_New_Zealand#Deputy_prime_minister

        • Tony Veitch 3.3.2.2
          25 January 2024 at 10:42 am

          The point needs to be made that Luxon didn't have to pander to any lunatic fringe!

          Where were Winnie and David going to go if he'd (Luxon) had any real negotiating skills and told them to shove their wanky and racist policies?

          At worse, he might have triggered another election, but he could have blamed Seymour and Peters and may well have got some sympathy!

          Instead, he caved in and gave them (Winnie and David) everything they wanted!

          Hipkins can be justly criticised for the poor Labour showing, but at least he, on a matter of principle, ruled out working with NZFirst!

        • satty 3.3.2.3
          25 January 2024 at 11:02 am

          Did you follow the UK in recent years?

          The Conservative Party has a big majority under FPP – soon to be history, the majority, not FPP – and yet small radical splitter groups (some can be considered "lunatic") appear to drive policies:

          • ERG (European Research Group)
          • Common Sense Group
          • The New Conservatives
          • No Turning Back
          • …

          I can't see much of a difference to MMP coalition(s).

          See also Guardian – Anatomy of a party in turmoil: the Conservative factions in the spotlight

  4. Foreign waka 4
    25 January 2024 at 8:18 am

    "Especially because the absolute worst part of the past three months has been how common it’s become to casually slag off Māori. There’s a noticeable swell in hate, division, racism, crazy talk and an all round sulphuric nastiness"

    It is disgusting how manipulative the players in parliament have become. We have a elected government and the crowd that screams the loudest or plays games like in high school seems to propose to do away with democracy. All the hallmarks are there of a toppling of the legal government. No willingness to uphold the other side of the constitution. Show your colors and don't hide behind insults. The ones slagging off anybody are hailed as doing the right thing, go figure. Give those who are caught in the middle a chance to rearrange their affairs and move to a safer country.

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    25 January 2024 at 8:26 am

    It's staining the world of science and education as well;

    "Do I need to emphasize once again that there are no “indigenous ways of knowing” beyond the ways that modern science “knows” things. To be frank, indigenous “ways of knowing” are inferior to modern science, which has a whole armamentarium for determining what counts as “knowledge” (experimentation, controls, replication, hypothesis-testing, pervasive doubt, and so on). In contrast, indigenous ways of knowing invariably come down to simple observation of natural phenomena or assertions (say, about the efficacy of plants as medicines) that aren’t tested using blind studies. And without verification and replication and testing, you don’t have knowledge; you have claims."

    https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/01/24/illegal-in-the-us-maybe-but-it-flourishes-in-nz-and-it-strikes-a-blow-against-western-science-so-canada-has-imported-it/

    • SPC 5.1
      25 January 2024 at 8:34 am

      Sort of, but do not discount the ability of big pharma to block natural medicine or appropriate it and patent.

      The medical science version of Monsanto.

      • Robert Guyton 5.1.1
        25 January 2024 at 8:44 am

        The motivated players in the science.v. matauranga Māori argument are the money-makers?

        Goodness!

        • SPC 5.1.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 8:49 am

          Big Pharma do all the testing before products go to market. Scientific method, really?

          Should GE companies have the same right?

    • weka 5.2
      25 January 2024 at 8:52 am

      my eyes glazed over as soon as I saw the words 'Jerry Coyne'. A rationalist who exhibits irrational behaviour each time he opens his keyboard on anything to do with indigenous knowledge.

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.1
        25 January 2024 at 9:04 am

        Can such a person ever take the leap and experience the very thing they argue so bluntly against?

        Does gradual exposure to indigenous thinking wear away the crystalline armour of science-thinking?

        I've seen "hanging out with manawhenua" have this effect on a group of people for whom "te mana o te wai" was dismissed out of hand/confusion.

        • weka 5.2.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 9:55 am

          what kind of changes did you see?

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.1
            25 January 2024 at 12:03 pm

            The opening of hearts through realising that ideas are genuinely embedded in people and culture and are as valid as their own embedded ideas.

        • Incognito 5.2.1.2
          25 January 2024 at 12:40 pm

          There’s no such thing as “crystalline armour of science-thinking”, as it would imply that it is pure, hard & sharp, and symmetrical, and some kind of protection or defence [against what?].

          Science that isn’t shared with people and that has no impact on people and society is less than a tree in a Zen forest. This sharing and influencing, not just in terms of ‘pure’ thinking but also in knowledge transfer and technological advancement is a bi-directional & mutual and dynamic process.

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.2.1
            25 January 2024 at 6:21 pm

            "…some kind of protection or defence [against what?]."

            Well, the Dark Arts, obviously.

            • Incognito 5.2.1.2.1.1
              25 January 2024 at 7:12 pm

              That’s futile because the Dark Arts are inside the science fortress as much as they’re on the outside. Rationalism in isolation is an exercise in futility. Rationalism as a ‘great purifier’ of science and mankind is a mug’s game.

    • weka 5.3
      25 January 2024 at 8:56 am

      n contrast, indigenous ways of knowing invariably come down to simple observation of natural phenomena or assertions (say, about the efficacy of plants as medicines) that aren’t tested using blind studies. And without verification and replication and testing, you don’t have knowledge; you have claims."

      Any halfwit who has gardened for a length of time knows how to test whether something works or not. The man needs to get out more.

  6. SPC 6
    25 January 2024 at 8:47 am

    Two peoples in one land, should we send David Seymour to re-write the principles of he state of Israel, the PA and the Oslo Accord peace process?

    Let our first nation to see each days dawn enlighten them, or not make it any worse here or there?

    Mr Barak is alarmed Israel is “losing legitimacy” and clearly worried for the next generation. “Statesmanship is missing. There is a vacuum in the overall running of the war,” he says. “We need to do something about it because time is running out. There are two clocks ticking at a different pace. The clock of legitimacy is ticking very fast; the clock of achieving the objective is ticking very slow. It is the basic role of the senior command to make sure these two clocks become synchronised.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350154692/israel-will-sink-gaza-mud-years-netanyahu-power-warns-former-prime-minister

    • Foreign waka 6.1
      25 January 2024 at 9:49 am

      "The government has confirmed a document about the government's proposed Treaty Principles bill is a leaked draft memo from the Ministry of Justice"

      The screenshot showed commentary from the report's author saying they expected the Bill would be "highly contentious".

      ..a full copy of the leaked report, which it said warned the proposal's key points were "at odds with what the Treaty of Waitangi actually says".

      Now by what I see is that, whoever was the "author" – no one seem to name the person – is not really authorized.

      However, what concerns me most is that, the public service is to stay neutral as they are employed to do the job no matter who is in government and hence have to stir away from any bias. This is difficult – true, but a pre requisite to make sure that corruption does not have an entry door.

      • SPC 6.1.1
        25 January 2024 at 10:05 am

        How is making the media and thus the public being aware of something any form of corruption – more likely to be otherwise.

        Many suspect that the leak was to aid the major party in the new government, give it more reason to dampen down expectation of its supporting a second reading (and embolden NZF to say they would not do so).

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/507090/government-confirms-leaked-document-was-a-ministry-treaty-principles-bill-memo

        • Foreign waka 6.1.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 10:40 am

          I really have no interest as to the motivation of the person but rather the institution of government and its employees obligation to adhere to protocol and impartiality. The country needs to be able to rely on its government for stability, economically and defence. Undermining it is actually treason.

          "Public sector chief executives and board chairs are responsible for the integrity and conduct of their agencies and maintaining the agency’s political neutrality. This includes during the election period"

          https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/guidance/general-election-guidance-2023/responsibilities-of-public-sector-agencies/

          The person who leaked a draft memo should be sacked as he/she etc. shows ulterior motives and fanning of discontent without facts.

          • SPC 6.1.1.1.1
            25 January 2024 at 11:12 am

            Maybe someone in government thought the coalition agreement, as per the Treaty principles debate and first reading, posed some risk to stability?

            Because what Seymour was saying about the Treaty was fact free and would lead to division

            And gave that advice. It is part of their public service role to do that.

            The only issue is leaking something and that appears not of any agenda against the government (given 2 of the 3 partners oppose it).

            • Foreign waka 6.1.1.1.1.1
              25 January 2024 at 12:28 pm

              This would be speculation as the document was a draft held at the ministry of justice (no less!) and no reading has taken place as far as reported to date. On those grounds the person had an agenda and hence should be dismissed – ungracefully.

              Equally, it is a duty of any party/govt employee to make sure that such leaked document is not a spurious placed for publication intended to fan emotions in the current environment.

              It is in essence inciting perceptions that can lead to violence. One should not forget that, not all people approach this issue with an academic mind and zest of evidence based discussion. In that sense it is a treasonous act to incite willingly and knowingly discontent.

              The sad part is that, if the Maori Party has taken this aboard and now "wants to held a government to account" and call a rightfully elected government "white supremacist". This is adding fuel to this without actually checking facts. On that basis their integrity and adherence to parliamentary protocol is questionable.

              • SPC …
                25 January 2024 at 1:04 pm

                What facts are you referring to?

                What is the basis of your assertion that the TPM "integrity and adherence to parliamentary protocol is questionable"?

                In that sense it is a treasonous act to incite willingly and knowingly discontent.

                No, it is not an act of treason to incite discontent (not under any democratic government).

                That would lead to censorship of media and as someone once said he would rather have no elections, than no independent media.

                Equally, it is a duty of any party/govt employee to make sure that such leaked document is not a spurious placed for publication intended to fan emotions in the current environment.

                It is the objective of the Americans to block whistleblowing, and of all governments into covering up stuff to keep the public ignorant, passive and compliant.

      • Incognito 6.1.2
        25 January 2024 at 8:15 pm

        Please include a link when you quote text or even single words.

  7. Jenny 7
    25 January 2024 at 8:54 am

    Palestinian man shot and killed by IDF sniper after talking to the media.

    ITV report captures moment Palestinian man is shot dead minutes after speaking to media

    Maroosha Muzaffar

    5 hours ago

    ….A children’s clothes seller from Gaza standing unarmed among a group of Palestinian men holding a white flag, was shot dead minutes after speaking to an ITV cameraman.

    A report aired by the British public service broadcaster showed the events unfolding as the group of five Palestinian men tried to reach family members stranded in a house inside and active combat zone….

    Minutes before being shot dead, the middle-aged, English-speaking Palestinian man told ITV: “Nowhere is safe in Gaza. Everywhere you find the Israeli Army. They shoot at us at home, in any building and in the street….

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-gaza-itv-report-israel-shot-dead-live-tv-b2483877.html

    With an Israeli imposed telecommunications blackout over most of Gaza, footage like this is rare. But it would seem to confirm many Palestinian accounts that unarmed civilians in Gaza are being killed in what the IDF call "field executions".

    Latest in Israel's long list of attrocities: IDF Field Executions – YouTube

    • Communications are gradually being restored in Gaza after a near-total blackout lasted over a week, which severely hampered aid operations.

    January 19, 2024 Israel-Hamas war (cnn.com)

    South Africa has alleged in the World Court that Israel is committing atrocities and war crimes in Gaza amounting to genocide. As more and more evidence like the above comes out, linked to the genocidal statements by Israeli lawmakers and military leaders, it seems almost inevitable that this Friday, the ICJ will announce their order on Israel to stop their assault on Gaza.

    • SPC 7.1
      25 January 2024 at 10:21 am

      The shooting of unarmed civilians is obviously a war crime.

      It is sufficient cause for the US POTUS to allow a UNSC Resolution condemning it and calling for an end to military action if it does not stop.

      It reminds one of the shootings of those by the Gaza fence back in 2018.

  8. Ad 8
    25 January 2024 at 10:24 am

    Great to see Jon Stewart returning to The Daily Show in time for this US election season. The acid has been needed.

  9. Patricia Bremner 9
    25 January 2024 at 10:53 am

    The great "Kumera of the North" Shane Jones says "we should not be afraid of discussing the Treaty Principles". in his speech at Ratana.

    It is not discussion we are afraid of, it is "Bad Actors" who come with an agenda to undermine belittle and divide, to get control of Maori treasures, water medicines and minerals.

    • Foreign waka 9.1
      25 January 2024 at 1:01 pm

      I understand medicines, minerals but water is not a possession but a right of any and all people to have available. You can survive 3 days without food, but you die after 3 days without water. Fact.

      I see that there is no objection to large Corps pumping millions of gallons of drinking water to sell overseas or filling those floating cities called Cruise ships with tones of drinking water. For money of cause! 🙄

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ratepayers-charged-500-times-more-for-water-than-bottling-companies/FWYMZBUZIVX27XLWWLDPTS4CNE/

      "Water bottling companies are paying an average 500 times less than ratepayers for each litre of water they're allowed to use"

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/27/new-zealand-anger-as-pristine-lakes-tapped-for-bottled-water-market

      The majority of New Zealand’s bottled water is drawn from Blue Spring in Putaruru , where Coca-Cola Amatil has a bottling factory.

      The spring is world-renowned for its color and clarity, and is classified as a natural Taonga, or treasure.

      Meanwhile, all of NZlands piping system has fallen in disrepair because of those "look at me, I want to be in the History books" projects and a failure of planning and charging proportionally. This despite the need to maintain the supply system being well known for decades.

      So, water… if there is any sincerity by all parties concerned than the first issue is repairing pipes so that every person residing here has drinkable water. Followed by securing water sources into the future and not prioritising Large Corporations or interests that only have one benefactor.

      • SPC 9.1.1
        25 January 2024 at 1:24 pm

        Is not spring water a taonga or treasure claim of the iwi? There should a royalty. And their consent for any export.

        Rivers are a taonga and treasure in relation to Maori customary activity dependent on water flow (fishing/eels etc). There is an issue here about water taken from the river that has an impact on this.

        Rivers as a catchment that allows collection and storage (hydro, irrigation or water use dams) is a land asset of an iwi. It's not just rain that flows to the sea that has value to those in chieftainship of their land.

        In the ECAN area water has been gathered for irrigation for use (dairying) in ways that pollute (nitrate) the underground aquifer.

        • Foreign waka 9.1.1.1
          25 January 2024 at 1:54 pm

          I understand your argument but still do not agree to any "ownership" of drinking water. If this is the case the person/party holding ownership essentially own me or any person whose life depends on it. No way would I ever agree to that!

      • Robert Guyton 9.1.2
        25 January 2024 at 6:24 pm

        Judith Collins.

  10. weka 10
    25 January 2024 at 11:09 am

    Chrome test

  12. Foreign waka 12
    25 January 2024 at 2:19 pm

    Well, the health service across the country is very much in need of more staff and resources.

    Some first hand experience:

    Just recently, when my husband was admitted via ambulance to the ER with suspicion of a heart attack I was somewhat taken aback by the way the process works. Whilst the nurse did an ECG straight away, comparative troponin tests are needed to ascertain any wider issues. From the time we made the first call to the waiting of the vital lab result 8.5 hours passed – and it could have been my husband not just the hours. On asking how far that is away: Receptions response was to make a note for the nurse. We decided to go home in the early hours of the morning without having seen the lab report. I think this is a dangerous situation that we have no means to change in any shape or form.

    Another patient was in pain and a person also being in the waiting room for hours explained that this chap has been waiting for 10 hours now – yes, in pain.

    There were some 20 people waiting, most for almost the same time as we are.

    By what I saw, there were 2 nurses and 1 doctor available. I saw 3 ambulances arriving in that time we were there.

    All those affected were pakeha and this, in my experience, shows that there is an issue across the board. Nothing to do with race.

    • weka 12.1
      25 January 2024 at 2:55 pm

      it's in a dire state for sure. In some rural areas you can't even get A/E services.

      Re ethnicity, the racism that might happen (I said might) would be if the system treated a Māori man differently from your husband. Maybe had to wait longer, maybe there were communication issues/barriers, maybe the staff had conscious or unconscious racism.

      Another example that is also well known is when people turn up in A/E wanting pain relief and are suspected of being addicts. Or they are registered in the system as an addict and turn up in pain. A whole bunch of biases against them can kick in eg staff assume they're lying about the pain to get access to drugs.

      I don't really understand why these are difficult things to talk about. I've been learning about cultural bias in healthcare since the 90s. I think things have improved, but there are still issues.

      It's not going to take away anything from non-Māori to address these issues. And if the system does start taking away from non-Māori, then the solution isn't to take away from Māori again, it's to sort it out so it is done fairly and well.

      • Foreign waka 12.1.1
        25 January 2024 at 4:31 pm

        To your last Sentence:

        My observation was not that anything is necessary based on race, it could be incidental. More to the point was the lack of staff. Those professionals who were there also had to look after those arriving by ambulance. This increased the waiting time exponentially. The chap in pain looked like to have something on his leg (broken?) but I am not a doctor.

        It was a frightening experience for me as I wasn't sure how bad the situation is without those tests. I lost two of my closest relatives due to a heart attack and it was not really foreseeable.

        • weka 12.1.1.1
          26 January 2024 at 8:14 am

          thanks for clarifying. I agree it is frightening. Might be worth talking to your GP about it to see if there is anything else that could be done in that situation.

  13. Robert Guyton 13
    25 January 2024 at 7:08 pm

    This guy is horrible!

    "A separate health system ‘by Maori for Maori’ that’s a duplication and indulgence. "

    https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/01/25/lindsay-mitchell-the-danger-of-the-treaty-debate-wearing-us-down/

  15. Robert Guyton 15
    25 January 2024 at 8:02 pm

    “Yo Christopher” and “Where’s your hair at?!”

    Wouldn't get away with that here!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350157533/three-headed-taniwha-government-enemy-maori-ratana-criticism-should-give-pm

  17. Muttonbird 17
    25 January 2024 at 8:35 pm

    One thing for all of the socially conscious left to watch for in David Seymours' insidious plan is the pathway to the referendum question. He'll try to lock in the referendum before the question we are to be asked is proposed. Make no mistake, the plan to referendum and the question is already being formulated.

    A bit like Jong Khee's flag debacle except more organised, more funded, and certainly more evil.

  18. joe90 18
    25 January 2024 at 8:35 pm

    So, not such a great idea.

    For so long, you identified as Libertarian. What changed?

    I completely have not used the word Libertarian in describing myself since I got an email during lockdown where a person from a Libertarian organization wrote to me and said, “We’re doing an anti-mask demonstration in Vegas, and obviously we’d like you to head it.” I looked at that email and I went, “The fact they sent me this email is something I need to be very ashamed of, and I need to change.”

    […]

    Many times when I identified as Libertarian, people said to me, “It’s just rich white guys that don’t want to be told what to do,” and I had a zillion answers to that — and now that seems 100 percent accurate.

    https://www.cracked.com/article_40871_penn-jillette-wants-to-talk-it-all-out.html

  19. Robert Guyton 19
    25 January 2024 at 8:53 pm

    Ponder this:

    "Insanity wasn’t in our genes — we humans had gone off the rails because our culture had lost its source of external significance. We were so completely colonized by the belief that all meaning came down to economics and private consumption that it no longer even felt like a belief. We’d forgotten the fact that, in Gaylor Nelson’s great phrase, “the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment, and not the other way around.”"

    https://www.themarginalian.org/2022/06/26/richard-powers-bewilderment/

  20. Muttonbird 20
    25 January 2024 at 9:05 pm

    Direct action. Don't you love to see it?

    Poor old James Cook lying on the grass like he was on holiday in Hawaii that time…

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-25/melbourne-captain-cook-queen-victoria-statues-vandalised/103386996