Open mike 29/06/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 29th, 2023 - 68 comments
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68 comments on “Open mike 29/06/2023 ”

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  1. Tony Veitch 1
    29 June 2023 at 6:17 am

    What is it with women these days?

    https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1673826425936441344

    Another short gem from Christopher Luxon! You can almost hear him grinding his teeth!

    And from General Debate yesterday:

    https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1673912345234673664

    Apparently, ChrisPenkMP retweeted this parody account as genuine!

    • Bearded Git 1.1
      29 June 2023 at 6:22 am

      Excellent Veitchy…these should all be shown again a week before voting starts.

    • Anne 1.2
      29 June 2023 at 10:16 am

      A response from the first twitter link:

      Maxine Gay

      @GayMaxine

      2h

      It's not credible that the Kiri Allen story is anything other than a deliberate hit job to dilute the good news from Hipkins in China

      @NZMorningReport

      It was over a year ago.

      When the story broke the same day Hipkins left for China, my reaction was:

      These stories about 'inappropriate' conduct by govt. ministers is an attempt at character assassination for public consumption a few months out from the election.

      Some people have been very busy sifting through paper work. How do we know whether all of them were legally obtained?

      I put nothing past National and ACT.

      • Anne 1.2.1
        29 June 2023 at 10:44 am

        I think this story pretty much sums it up… a storm in a teacup.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/cabinet-minister-kiri-allan-confirms-relationship-break-up-with-mani-dunlop-returns-to-parliament-after-mental-health-break/EMPHKSGC5RFJTFV7SV4OYE37RU/

        Jealousy, racism, misogyny, spite and a generous helping of dirty politicking. I didn't think they would stoop so low as to rub the target's nose in the muck during a very difficult personal time.

        • tc 1.2.1.1
          29 June 2023 at 11:51 am

          They'll go as low as they possibly can to win the election.

          The cunliffe smear etc.

          Yet again RNZ shows it's no longer trustworthy.

          • Dennis Frank 1.2.1.1.1
            29 June 2023 at 12:28 pm

            On the RNZ news just now I got the gist of their view: smoke but no fire. No formal complaints means the discord didn't reach the threshold for action.

            I guess a public servant has to balance the likelihood that they may reduce their employability if they complain, against their perception of harm done to them personally – as in trauma.

            If so, the system incentivises leaking of discord to the Opposition in such instances. Abuse cannot be proven without supportive witnesses, and colleagues have to balance the threat to their own career from supporting victims. That said, all this is hypthetical since the system prevents transparency…

            • Louis 1.2.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2023 at 4:46 pm

              From Anne's link, posted @1.2.1

              “But I’ve never, ever had any allegations put to me that I’ve had to deal with on a staffing front – none.”

              • Dennis Frank …
                29 June 2023 at 5:46 pm

                Yeah I know – I thought it a good idea to scout out the reasons why staffers might be too scared to complain. We can only speculate because the system is designed to prevent them issuing such explanations themselves.

    • Patricia Bremner 1.3
      29 June 2023 at 12:15 pm

      Well now reporters know how Luxon will treat their questions. wink And those “creating news have had a failure imo.

    • SPC 1.4
      29 June 2023 at 12:50 pm

      Penk has form for punching down against people of colour, and that includes someone having a mental health break. .

  2. Bearded Git 2
    29 June 2023 at 6:29 am

    Many of National's policies seem to be focused on creating another housing bubble rather than funneling capital into productive investment.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132432229/national-would-scrap-reserve-banks-sustainable-house-price-requirements

    "Economist Shamubeel Eaqub was critical of National’s plan, saying the requirements made it explicit that sustainable house prices were integral to a stable financial system, and that the Reserve Bank had an obligation to take house prices into consideration."

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    29 June 2023 at 7:57 am

    Space bus passing close by tomorrow – 100 times closer than the moon:

    "2023 BU is a recently discovered object, supposedly the size of a small bus, which must have passed by the Earth thousands of times before. This time it passes by only 2200 miles from the Earth – just 1 percent of the distance to the moon – a celestial near miss.

    The time of lowest altitude is calculated to be 1.27pm NZT on Friday (00:27 GMT).

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/483183/asteroid-to-pass-earth-closer-than-some-satellites

    • Sanctuary 3.1
      29 June 2023 at 8:03 am

      I blame Klandathu. Must we wait until Buenos Aires is destroyed before we act?

    • Descendant Of Smith 3.2
      29 June 2023 at 5:08 pm

      Hmmm do they move the satellites out of the way of it's flight path to reduce the risk of impact with one?

      • Dennis Frank 3.2.1
        29 June 2023 at 5:50 pm

        Never heard of such tech capability being designed into their systems so I suspect it's just a lottery. Bit like a pinball machine, eh? Space rock hits satellite, is orbitally deflected onto a new trajectory, then hits New York (or Beijing or Moscow). Bugger.

        • alwyn 3.2.1.1
          29 June 2023 at 6:14 pm

          They can certainly shift the orbit of satellites, including the Space Station to avoid collisions with space debris. They have done it quite a lot.

          You need a very accurate knowledge of the orbit of the space debris to do it though which they probably wouldn't have for this asteroid.

          Here is a collection of Q&A on the topic

          https://www.esa.int/Space_Safety/Space_Debris/FAQ_Frequently_asked_questions

          • Dennis Frank 3.2.1.1.1
            29 June 2023 at 6:22 pm

            Oh yeah, good one: "As of 2021, each of ESA’s Earth-orbiting satellites is conducting, on average, two collision avoidance manoeuvres per year."

            Automated evasion? Primitive AI? Or subject to ground control? One can imagine the controller's job title: Space Invader Evasion Officer. cool

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    29 June 2023 at 8:16 am

    A Chinese millionaire says he has failed the country's tough university entrance exams for the 27th time. On Friday, the 56-year-old Liang Shi found out he had scored only 424 out of 750 points. The mark is 34 points short of the baseline needed to apply for any university in China.

    After failing his first attempt in 1983 when he was 16, he worked different jobs but kept applying every year until 1992, when he was considered too old. After the factory he worked at went bankrupt in the same year, Mr Liang started his own timber wholesale business in the mid-1990s.

    He soon became a much more successful businessman than a student – he made one million yuan within one year and then started a construction material business… in 2001, when the Chinese government removed the age limit for the Gaokao, he started his education journey again. He had only missed the annual exams due to poor health or a busy working schedule.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66028605

    Liang Shi has failed their ue exam 27 times over that 40 year period, so the state ought to give him an award for perseverance. Excellent role model!

    • joe90 4.1
      29 June 2023 at 9:45 am

      Speaking of UE exams.

      EileenJoy

      @swintersections

      I'm going to say this really slowly – there is NO university entrance 'exam'. And as someone who is involved in secondary education (Board) and tertiary education, if there was I'd say Luxon himself would fail it due to lack of preparation for … well just about anything.


      @Taitoa_Wihone

      Luxon imagines every child takes an exam to get into uni and 50% of us fail it….that’s not what university entrance is man. How can you lecture people on getting the basics right when you’ve been out of the country for so long to not even know the basics of how our systems work.


      https://twitter.com/swintersections/status/1673890483112902656

  5. newsense 5
    29 June 2023 at 9:01 am

    And the vampiric NZ media go with the main story nothing happened a year ago! Heck of a job…

    • Bearded Git 5.1
      29 June 2023 at 9:54 am

      The (National Party dominated) MSM could not allow Hipkins to have a diplomatic triumph in China so close to the election so they had to concoct something.

      Shame on RNZ for joining in though.

      • Anker 5.1.1
        29 June 2023 at 11:51 am

        Are they paying Allen back for her comments at her ex fiancees leaving do?

        This is a very weird story I agree. Is there more to come? We will have to wait and see

        • Bearded Git 5.1.1.1
          29 June 2023 at 12:26 pm

          RNZ just reported (about 12.14pm) that Allan told National to "put up or shut up" and she said that the Nats had been on a "fishing expedition". RNZ said Allan was arguing that there was "nothing to see here".

          So refreshing this. So feisty.

          But of course all Luxon wanted was to distract from Hipkins’ fine performance in China, and the compliant MSM did the job for him.

          • Phillip ure 5.1.1.1.1
            29 June 2023 at 1:02 pm

            @bg..

            Yes .a 'fine performance' would be one way of describing hipkins in china..

            Others may use more salty terms… involving butts and the kissing of…

            But yes..it was a 'performance'..

            It followed a tight script… with all the difficult subjects covered in the meeting of mahuta..and her chinese counterpart…

            All that was left to do was the waltz of happiness ..

            And are you saying you don't feel at all uncomfortable with hipkins' 'performance'..?

            No elephants also on the dance floor…?

            • Bearded Git 5.1.1.1.1.1
              29 June 2023 at 5:59 pm

              Phillip….as I think you know I vote Green…. Hipkins is not really of my ilk…he has axed a few green things and I agree it is scandalous that he didn't give human rights a higher profile in China….but he is eloquent and a bit of a thug and not a rich prick so he should make mincemeat of Luxon in the campaign….I just hope the Greens get ten per cent

              • Phillip ure …
                29 June 2023 at 6:10 pm

                I think it is an easy prediction for both the greens and the maori party to do well..

                I think the greens could well pick up some soft tory voters..who may well be as scared of act as any sensible biped would be…

                And I am cheered by the reports of seme serious movement from the general role to the maori roll..

                I see those votes going to the maori party…(a very different maori party from the last iteration..).

                And my hope is that they will together give labour a spine…

          • Anne 5.1.1.1.2
            29 June 2023 at 1:03 pm

            This is what Allan said:

            I understand there has been a fishing exercise undertaken by some members, I understand that story has been shopped about for some time, but the reality is most of us come to work every single day with a focus on getting things done for New Zealanders.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/492831/kiri-allan-rejects-claims-she-treated-staff-badly

            A well balanced article imo. Better than what else I have seen.

            • Bearded Git 5.1.1.1.2.1
              29 June 2023 at 6:00 pm

              Thanks for that Anne and I agree.

            • Belladonna 5.1.1.1.2.2
              29 June 2023 at 6:37 pm

              I feel that Allan may be suffering from the association with both Nash and Wood who said 'nothing to see here, move on' only to turn out to have been hiding significant issues all along.

              The more she protests her innocence (as they did), the more people wonder what she is hiding.

              The put up or shut up option, is realistically the only one she has (and IMO she's using it effectively). She should pro-actively request that whichever department holds the email, release it, immediately. Of course, redacting any names or personal information of any staffers concerned.

        • Phillip ure 5.1.1.2
          29 June 2023 at 6:03 pm

          Anker…you have run away with the conspiracy theory of the day award…

          And you had stiff opposition..

          Well done..!

          • Anker 5.1.1.2.1
            29 June 2023 at 8:52 pm

            I posed the question was Radio NZ paying Allen back for having a go at them at her ex fiancees leaving do.

            I suggested this possiblity because the story doesn't make much sense i.e why is a work relations issue a year after the event.

            You can call that a conspiracy theory if you like. Usually conspiracy theorists believe 100% what they postulate. But don't let that get in your way

      • Phillip ure 5.1.2
        29 June 2023 at 12:53 pm

        @bg..

        re you seriously suggesting that there was some sort of conspiracy by the msm…to kneecap hipkins in china..?

        Got any evidence that claim is anything more than an orifice-pluck on your part..?

        • Anne 5.1.2.1
          29 June 2023 at 1:12 pm

          Did you not read Dirty Politics? Don't you keep up with the right's well documented continuing shenanigans on the dirty political front?

          Read my link at 1;03pm. It might help.

        • Patricia Bremner 5.1.2.2
          29 June 2023 at 3:55 pm

          Phillip, don't be naive. Some reporters love "gotcha" and any clickbait, even 12 month old stuff.

          • Phillip ure 5.1.2.2.1
            29 June 2023 at 5:49 pm

            I'm not saying they don't love gotcha stories..but that is a bulls roar away from some conspiracy on the part of that media..to 'get' hipkins on his China trip…

            If true..that would be the much bigger story..

        • Bearded Git 5.1.2.3
          30 June 2023 at 6:54 am

          I think, as Allan has said, they went "fishing" and once they had found something that the compliant media would report (even if there really was nothing to see) they made sure it was released during Hipkins' China trip.

          I don't think the Nats have changed their spots by dumping Collins as leader.

  6. roy cartland 6
    29 June 2023 at 9:29 am

    A few people are making the comments (in that Twitter feed, here and elsewhere) that when Todd Muller and Jamie Lee Ross took time for "mental health", they were lauded by the media, the opposition, everyone. Kiri Allan does it and she gets shit and derision from all corners, including authors on here.

    What's the difference? Woman? Left wing? Brown? Surely not a difference in credibility (ahem JLR).

    • Bearded Git 6.1
      29 June 2023 at 12:28 pm

      Yes Ad's comments on TS were well out of line IMHO. See my post re Kiri Allan on RNZ above.

      • Phillip ure 6.1.1
        29 June 2023 at 1:14 pm

        @bg..

        Is that your rnz conspiracy that you speak of..?

        Have you given it a name/acronym yet..?

        Your new conspiracy..?

    • Phillip ure 6.2
      29 June 2023 at 1:12 pm

      @ r c..

      I don't recall any 'derision' being directed at allan..

      The discussion has been about historical issues in her interactions with staff/consultants..with allegations of bullying..

      And this story being broken by a doc official who had been seconded to allen's office..and who bailed early 'cos of toxic culture…

      And you will note…no msm/nats in sight..

      The propensity of some here to leap at shadows/see conspiracies everywhere..is laughable..

      • Patricia Bremner 6.2.1
        29 June 2023 at 4:05 pm

        Phillip, toxic? I did not read that anywhere…???

        • Phillip ure 6.2.1.1
          29 June 2023 at 5:54 pm

          Why else would she leave early…and then raise it with ministerial services…and now in the media…?..if it were not some variation on a toxic culture…bullying or whatever..?

          • Patricia Bremner 6.2.1.1.1
            29 June 2023 at 6:36 pm

            Perhaps ? A guess then? Where is imo? For that is it really from your orificelaugh Have you skin in the game of pin the Minister? Do you know the Doc person?

          • Tony Veitch 6.2.1.1.2
            29 June 2023 at 7:20 pm

            Ben Thomas, hardly a Labour supporter, spoke on RNZ this afternoon about some people seconded to a parliamentary office being unsuited to the hotbed atmosphere. They move on pretty quickly.

            And that, it appears, is all it is.

            A quick glance at Dirty Politics would convince even the most sceptical that a lowlife like Cam Slater is quite capable of going on a fishing expedition and holding onto a snippet of information to release it at the most opportune moment.

            Don't be naive, Phillip. It's election year and the Natz feel entitled!

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    29 June 2023 at 10:07 am

    Good news! laugh

    Biden was asked if Putin was weakened by Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's recent show of rebellion, Reuters reports. "It's hard to tell really. But he's clearly losing the war in Iraq," the US President responded.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/06/29/us-president-biden-says-putin-losing-iraq-war-in-latest-gaffe/

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    29 June 2023 at 10:15 am

    Political scientist reckons it's Kiri's third strike:

    "It does feel, for a lot of people, that the wheels are falling off this Government," Edwards told AM host Ryan Bridge. "For Kiri Allan, of course, this is potentially her third strike – there have been other integrity issues raised about her in recent months."

    Last month, Allan faced scrutiny after she criticised RNZ's culture and treatment of Māori staff at a farewell event for her fiancée, Māni Dunlop. She later apologised and said while she was there in a personal capacity, her comment could have been interpreted as her telling RNZ how to manage the company, which is independent. Edwards also pointed to donations to Allan from then-Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/many-will-think-the-wheels-are-falling-off-this-government-after-kiri-allan-office-concerns-political-commentator-says.html

    Nifty framing from the youngster but maybe premature. Folks oughta keep in mind that mentally-challenged politicians aren't abnormal, that Hitler was democratically elected and Trump likewise. Democracy has no inherent bias against mental illness.

    • Patricia Bremner 8.1
      29 June 2023 at 12:34 pm

      "Nifty", well that is one way of describing bile and bias I guess. More like “Shifty” imo

    • SPC 8.2
      29 June 2023 at 12:56 pm

      How is the matter anywhere a strike offence?

      If this is how three strikes works, then its one based on malice and lack of due process.

      • Dennis Frank 8.2.1
        29 June 2023 at 1:03 pm

        How is the matter anywhere a strike offence?

        It may not be. That's why it seemed nifty to me. Perception rules reality in politics. If media and political scientists frame things a particular way, it's because they believe such framing will be in accord with common views of a situation.

        When players in the political game spin things, they expect that spin to acquire immediate traction. It works via resonance. Folks resonate with the notion. Doesn't mean things will play out accordingly, just that it becomes more likely they will…

        • Patricia Bremner 8.2.1.1
          29 June 2023 at 4:01 pm

          Frank replace "spin" with "conspire" and you get stuff from the orifice Phillip mentioned. So sh…. perceptions devil They are hardly even handed.

    • Bearded Git 8.3
      30 June 2023 at 7:03 am

      Does anybody still believe Edwards' shallow, consistently anti-left, rants have credibility?

      Allan looks like a talent to me….could go far.

      I heard Ben Thomas mention on RNZ's The Panel that she was going through a "break up". I don't know if this is true but anybody who has been in a break-up situation knows that it can be incredibly stressful.

  9. aj 9
    29 June 2023 at 10:57 am

    Another lesson in highway robbery.

    Thames Water are on the verge of being taken back into public ownership because of their £14bn "unsustainable" debt – but where did it come from?

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1674069163986366466.html

    • Descendant Of Smith 9.1
      29 June 2023 at 5:21 pm

      Our power companies are doing the same thing.

      Power companies have been paying out billions more in dividends than they've been making in profits, driving up electricity prices, union researchers have found.

      The report – co-authored by First Union, the Council of Trade Unions, and climate group 350 – calls for the payouts to instead be channelled into building renewable generating capacity.

      From 2014 to 2021, Contact, Genesis, Mercury and Meridian paid shareholders $8.7 billion in dividends, the report said. That's despite recording a total profit of just $5.35b over that period.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/478672/household-power-bills-driven-up-by-retailers-paying-excessive-dividends-union

      And shifting the cost from businesses to householders at the same time.

      The report, released this morning, said residential electricity prices had increased by 79 per cent but commercial rates dropped by 24 per cent in the past three decades.

  10. joe90 10
    29 June 2023 at 11:45 am

    The purge begins.

    Russian General Sergei Surovikin has been arrested, The Moscow Times' Russian service reported Wednesday, citing two sources close to the Defense Ministry who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

    The Defense Ministry has yet to comment on the alleged arrest of Surovikin, who has not been seen in public since Saturday, when Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin launched an armed rebellion against Russia's military leadership.

    […]

    “Apparently, he [Surovikin] chose Prigozhin’s side during the uprising, and they’ve gotten him by the balls,” the source said.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/28/russian-general-arrested-following-wagner-mutiny-mt-russian-a81685

  11. SPC 11
    29 June 2023 at 1:02 pm

    There is a global problem with the health workforce, Shortages are adding to the problem.

    Figures for 2022 show an absence rate – the proportion of days lost – of 5.6%, meaning the NHS lost the equivalent of nearly 75,000 staff to illness.

    This is higher than during the peak pandemic years of 2020 and 2021 – and a 29% rise on the 2019 rate.

    Staff sickness in the NHS in England has reached record levels.

    Mental health problems were the most common cause, responsible for nearly a quarter of absences, the Nuffield Trust analysis of official NHS data shows.

    Big rises were also seen in cold, coughs, infections and respiratory problems, likely to be linked to the continued circulation of Covid as well as the return of flu last year.

    There were three categories covering these types of illnesses. If combined, they would be responsible for more sickness than mental health.

    A problem only eased by more staff.

    "Until the NHS has sufficient employees to care for and treat all the people needing its help, absence levels will keep going through the roof. If there's to be a healthy NHS, it first needs a healthy workforce."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66047270

    • Belladonna 11.1
      29 June 2023 at 1:14 pm

      This is only anecdata, I know, but our workplace (around 100 staff) has had the worst winter, ever, for staff absences due to respiratory infections.
      Very few are Covid (or not being claimed as such), but colds and other respiratory infections are at levels well above pre-Covid heights for staff sick leave. I've just had a week off work, myself, with a chest and sinus infection.

      While some of this may be due to the Covid effect of 'if you're sick, stay home and don't infect anyone else' – a lot seems to be that people are getting sicker for longer with what used to be routine sniffles. It doesn't seem to be 'flu (or at least not a lot of it). Our workplace offers free 'flu vaccinations which have been taken up by more than 90% of staff (with many of the others getting a free vaccination at their GP, due to age or other medical conditions).

      I have no clinical explanation – but it's interesting to note an on-the-ground parallel to the NHS data.

      • Patricia Bremner 11.1.1
        29 June 2023 at 5:11 pm

        Virus infections leave markers in the body. Covid weakens the immune system, so yes more infections this winter. Hope you are over that Belladonna.

    • joe90 11.2
      29 June 2023 at 1:45 pm

      The perfect storm.

      Anthony Costello

      @globalhlthtwit

      ·

      We are underestimating the impact of both global heating and Covid on the risk of inflation. Euro Central Bank analysis suggests that a one-degree temperature increase during El Niño historically raised global food prices by more than 6% after one year (1)

      @globalhlthtwit

      Eurostat and Germany data shows average hours worked has not recovered since pre-pandemic, sick leave has gone up, 60% attributed to Covid and other respiratory infections from insurance fund data. https://ecb.europa.eu/press/key/date/2023/html/ecb.sp230619_1~2c0bdf2422.en.html?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

      (2)

      https://twitter.com/globalhlthtwit/status/1673992931684896770

  12. Dennis Frank 12
    29 June 2023 at 2:22 pm

    Plot thickens, reported by Andrea Vance:

    A mystery text message – kept secret by senior public servants – is at the centre of a controversy swirling around Cabinet Minister Kiritapu Allan, and is now the subject of a complaint to Parliament's information watchdog.

    Stuff revealed on Wednesday that a Department of Conservation employee, seconded to work with Allan chose to leave early last year because of concerns about “working relationships.” That saw DOC chief executive Penny Nelson take concerns to the Department of Internal Affairs, which manages Ministerial Services.

    At the same time as Stuff was investigating, the National Party was also asking questions. MP Simeon Brown, the party's public services spokesperson, had lodged an Official Information Act request with the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.

    Brown asked for documents and correspondence written by senior MBIE staff, that references Allan’s “behaviour or conduct”. He also asked for details of any incidents or concerns.

    One text message fell within the scope of his request. But MBIE boss Carolyn Tremain said she was withholding that, under a clause that exists to allow the "free and frank" exchange of opinions within government.

    Stuff has been told by two sources that that message came from deputy chief executive Robert Pigou. In a written statement Pigou said the text “does not express concerns about staff working in the office and therefore no follow-up action was needed.”

    Stuff sought further clarification from Pigou, and he replied: “In my role, I have informal discussions with all my staff, including our private secretaries that support our Ministers, and I consider these discussions to be withheld under section 9 (2) (g)(i) of the Official Information Act 1982.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132440802/the-mystery-withheld-text-at-the-centre-of-the-kiri-allan-situation

    Fun & games. Mandarin uses Muldoon's law to stymie the Nats!

    Brown has asked the Office of the Ombudsman, which hears complaints relating to OIA requests, to investigate the withholding of the text message.

    Any bureaucratic investigation can be prolonged till after the election, right? Apparently it's vital for the public service to prove that non-transparency rules over false Labour claims to the contrary…

    • Peter 12.1
      29 June 2023 at 4:23 pm

      When I see 'Simeon Brown' my mind immediately sees 'Slimy.' He's on his campaign to prove he would be a great Minister in Government after October.

      He would say he's just doing what an effective opposition politician should be doing. I see slimy.

  13. Dennis Frank 13
    29 June 2023 at 3:05 pm

    Good news for Labour:

    The Privileges Committee has found Education Minister Jan Tinetti did mislead Parliament due to a "high degree of negligence" but is not guilty of contempt. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/492852/jan-tinetti-made-error-of-judgement-that-misled-parliament-privileges-committee-finds

    Accidentally creating the wrong impression in the minds of others is normal for humans. Looks like the committee has deemed the minister negligent despite this. The high degree they cite isn't quantified: how long is a piece of string? Do they mean 8 or 9 out of 10 or only 7.5?? The PM will consider options: are the rest of the motley crew likely to do any better? I suspect he will roll his eyes & keep her on.

    The committee found she had or could have made reasonable inquiries to find out the truth, and "the fact that she did not do so caused the House to be misled for close to 10 weeks, or 13 sitting days".

    So they managed to do some quantifying on that point, and it's a relief that parliament is seemingly viewed by the committee as the last remaining bastion of truth.

    • alwyn 13.1
      29 June 2023 at 6:23 pm

      That is a very welcome decision for the Government. Not guilty of contempt. Who would have anticipated it? It is almost as if the Government and its "running dogs", in Mao's wonderful phrase, had a majority on the Committee.

      I wonder what the vote was? 5-3 perhaps? Did they say?

      • Craig H 13.1.1
        29 June 2023 at 8:29 pm

        https://selectcommittees.parliament.nz/v/6/93a5dceb-337c-4eb7-de47-08db781492a7

        To quote the report (p13):

        Based on the evidence before us, we do not believe that the Minister deliberately misled the House by failing to correct her misleading statement. The Minister has strenuously denied
        such intent in evidence to us. Although some of us find parts of her evidence unconvincing, all members of the committee accept that there is an appropriately high bar for making a
        finding of intent to mislead, which is not met in this case.

        Seems to have been unanimous in finding that while Minister Tinetti misled the House, she did not intentionally mislead the House.

        • Hunter Thompson II 13.1.1.1
          30 June 2023 at 9:17 am

          Ah, now I get it. Jan Tinetti was merely grossly incompetent. The PM can keep her on then.

          • Craig H 13.1.1.1.1
            1 July 2023 at 3:59 pm

            Different accountability line. The Privileges Committee has decided it wasn't contempt of Parliament but found that she should apologise for misleading Parliament.

            Now that's complete, the PM gets to think about whether there should be any other consequences and balance that with the need to fill the portfolio close to the election.

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