Open mike 30/06/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 30th, 2015 - 49 comments
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49 comments on “Open mike 30/06/2015 ”

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  1. b waghorn 1
    30 June 2015 at 6:58 am

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11473094
    Key has a let them eat cake moment
    “but said if that argument was about price then water was free from the tap”

  2. Tracey 2
    30 June 2015 at 8:08 am

    I note the media focus last night on Prime and in the headlines on stuff and herald, regarding Greece, is the impact it is having on our and world sharemarkets and currencies. Quite a simple way to show people what the MSM sees as our priorities,

    • Skinny 2.1
      30 June 2015 at 8:46 am

      I hope the Greeks reject paying back the loan sharks. Germany can suck it up their economy is robust enough to handle it. Sharemarket panic attacks Is typical of the greedy investors. It is good news for China to counter the effects of the looming TPPA agreement which has seen their sharemarket drop 20% in the last 6 months.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1
        30 June 2015 at 1:35 pm

        I hope the Greeks reject paying back the loan sharks.

        Yep. So do I. It’s necessary to try and bring the banksters to heel.

  3. greywarshark 3
    30 June 2015 at 8:36 am

    More on HT (herbicide tolerant) swedes following on from studies into the reason for cow deaths after feeding on them last winter.
    30 June 2015 – http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/69788509/more-research-still-needed-for-ht-swederelated-deaths

    Although some farmers were severely affected by ill stock last spring, the total number represented a small proportion of farmers that sowed HT swedes and other swede varieties in the south, he said. (General Manager of PGG Wrightson Seeds).
    “It was a very, very difficult scenario last spring … we were aware people had used the [HT swedes] the previous three years and had no issues whatsoever.”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/67524880/toxins-killed-southland-cows-ministry-says.html

    It would be wise if farmers used the other swede varieties, if they are the good ‘husbands’ of the land they are always citing.

    June 9 2015 – http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/69224494/dairynz-use-caution-with-ht-swedes-and-fodder-beet
    Southland farmers are being urged to be cautious transitioning dairy cows onto crops after reports of cows again becoming ill and dying after eating HT swedes.
    This follows the deaths of about 300 ewes and at least 200 Southland dairy cows last year after feeding on crops including HT [herbicide tolerant] swedes, with hundreds more becoming ill.
    (What about us? When we eat swedes or drink milk in the belief that it is healthy and good for us, there must be something that is left that goes through our bodies. And it is unnecessary to use HT except that it can offer bigger crops. But it distorts the natural features of the vegetables and the soil they are in. Would bees visit the flowers, they should be able to utilise healthy crops for their needs?

    • Tracey 3.1
      30 June 2015 at 8:42 am

      grey, who supplied the swedes tot he farmers? Do you know if agrisearch has done a report/study?

      • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1
        30 June 2015 at 10:17 am

        “It was a very, very difficult scenario last spring … we were aware people had used the [HT swedes] the previous three years and had no issues whatsoever.”

        This is a silly comment. Obviously something had changed. But they are talking like nothing had changed. And of course, they don’t know that but also seem singularly disinterested.

      • greywarshark 3.1.2
        30 June 2015 at 10:58 am

        @Tracey
        I keep seeing PGG Wrightson come up in the news as suppliers. I did some looking up when I wrote earlier about what has been done in research. Havn’t time to search now. I think one of the links I put says they are still looking into it. But I would expect that it might be hard to get accuracy about how much herbicide has been put on, as it would be in the interests of the farmer to fudge, and give a lower than the actual level. And it also depends on whether conditions as to how much of whatever stays in the leafy tops. All quite unsatisfactory really. To say the least.

        And I think that a well-known seed company also sold the seed that was contaminated with some nasty unwanted grass weed, which spilled out here and there along the road as it was being transported back to the company after the contamination was found. Such companies probably have on their logo that they have been serving the nation since the year dot. Who knows how many of our pests and problems they have wittingly introduced.

        • Chooky 3.1.2.1
          30 June 2015 at 11:18 am

          PGG Wrightson is largely owned by the Chinese I think…51%

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10875679

          • greywarshark 3.1.2.1.1
            30 June 2015 at 12:12 pm

            Thanks Chooky. That piece about the Chinese is very interesting and raises many questions.
            This is a basic.
            Agria [Seeds] holds 51 per cent of the iconic New Zealand rural services firm.
            It initially bought into PGG Wrightson when the debt-ridden company was caught short after the global financial crisis.
            1 If companies buy up or into other companies on a leveraged basis and there is a downturn in the market, then their ability to pay for their new investment out of revenue. drops like a stone and leaves them vulnerable needing input. I wonder if that is why PGG-W was debt-ridden. This area of business has always been fairly solid, dependable and profitable surely.

            2 The proposed new giant company wants to compete with Monsanto and others. Giant companies fighting each other to have the newest most productive vital crop seed, that can gain dominance so that it lays its own GE profile on all other pollen? And probably using Monsanto measures of suing for wrongful use of intellectual property used against any farmers whose produce shows patented gene evidence, whether inadvertent or not.

            Will it mean we will have this GE regime forced on us inevitably, with pollen blown by wind. Will we lose any chance of holding onto healthy, sustainable, earth-nurturing measures.?
            The Chinese have big plans.
            Lai shared his vision for the seeds business at an interview in Auckland. “In three years we could be in the top 10 seeds companies in the world . That is our vision. In 10 years we want to be US$10 billion turnover.”

            3 What effect will this have.
            But it’s not just all about selling grass (pasture) seeds. PGG Wrightson Seeds is strong in forage.
            And with China rapidly building huge mega-dairy farms (Lai knows of at least 40 with more than 10,000 cows on each farm), he believes there is a big opportunity to grow forage in China to cut-and-carry to the animals….
            Now 95 per cent of the modern dairy farms in China are buying forage from overseas….

            PGG Wrightson Seeds is spearheading a Primary Growth Partnership programme with Grasslanz Technology Limited to deliver innovative forages for New Zealand farms.
            The full programme is valued at $14.6 million, with PGP funding contributing $7.15 million over six years.
            The company says the Seed and Nutritional Technology Development programme aims to develop new technologies that improve animal productivity and animal health, while overcoming adverse environmental impacts….

            Lai said Agria was prepared to adjust the 51 per cent (in the PGG Wrightson Seeds business) to bring more benefit back to the New Zealand firm. He notes the New Zealand side is relatively quite large (it has operations in New Zealand, Australia and Latin America). China Seeds is smaller but has sported 50-60 per cent annual growth in the later three years with profit growing at 30 per cent – a “few million US dollars’ profit”.

            That’s giant growth for China Seeds, they must dominate our NZ company whether they adjust the shareholding. And our milk production industry swamped by Chinese production. What will we grow, GE seeds for the world? China will be able to grow their own forage. Once the science and method is established there won’t be much else to do.

            At present the government is cutting down on pure science, and I have heard it is directing investments to areas such as agriculture. Yet that would limit our growth as a supposedly developed nation with diverse exports. As for national production of our non-agricultural goods and the jobs we hope for and a living wage and life at middle class level? Who knows, but we haven’t done well so far.

            • Tracey 3.1.2.1.1.1
              30 June 2015 at 12:26 pm

              I’ve been thinking recently about the implications of GE stuff under the TPP when this government forces it on us. Surely Monsanto and others can sue us for not allowing their seeds etc into our market?

              • greywarshark …
                30 June 2015 at 12:47 pm

                @Tracey
                I reckon. Corporates don’t like it if people start asserting themselves and ask annoying questions about product.

                And it has been pointed out that they are faceless entities. They are great armies of mercenaries pillaging the countries they reside in or pass through. There is no one person or family at the top, no human running the show with his or her own vision, they are a man-made machine, an entity that has been produced from within our culture and morphed over and over run on a mathematical paradigm of profit and numeral manipulation.

                Jeez must stop letting thoughts get into my head. Thinking drives you mad I have heard.

                This Qatar? business is an early example of how we can be jerked into line and elbowed into action for doing what we think is the correct and moral thing.

            • Chooky 3.1.2.1.1.2
              30 June 2015 at 7:20 pm

              +100 greywarshark….seems like this needs a full post….maybe you or the Greens?

    • Chooky 3.2
      30 June 2015 at 11:24 am

      +100 greywarshark ….thanks for the investigative journalism and keeping us up to date on this mysterious case of the cow killing swedes

      ( personally i never buy swedes anymore, especially Southland swedes !)

  4. Save NZ 4
    30 June 2015 at 9:12 am

    Something we don’t hear from the ‘taxpayers union”

    Auckland’s privatised rail operations costs $70m per year more than Wellington’s (for a similar numbers of passengers carried). In contrast to Auckland, where the train services are managed by the French company Transdev, Wellington’s operation is public sector. Run by state-owned KiwiRail. – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/06/30/guest-blog-mike-lee-that-budget-and-why-i-voted-for-it/#comment-291410

    Oh yes privatisation is so efficient, NOT.

    Where is the media on this, NOT something Granny herald wants to report, only the $1200 ‘party’ from councillors. The blogs need to call this constant mis reporting out!

    Sweating the small stuff from elected councillors and letting the private companies like law firms and off shore transport companies get away with taking millions from ratepayers.

  5. RTM 5
    30 June 2015 at 9:14 am

    Dylann Roof’s massacre of black churchgoers in Charleston has reminded the world of the legacy of the Confederacy and slavery. But what about the slavery that flourished in the 19th century Pacific, thanks partly to the influence of displaced Confederates?
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2015/06/savage-garbage-gatherers-new-zealand.html

  6. Charles 6
    30 June 2015 at 10:18 am

    Reposting this topic, plus further summary aspects, originally posted by Tautoko Mangō Mata last night in Daily review. It’s important people know.

    Some interesting excerpts from the recommendation to allow Police to charge people for their services. Some are awfully suggestive. From the recommended new bill:

    “The Law and Order Committee has examined the Policing (Cost Recovery) Amendment Bill and recommends, by majority, that it be passed with the amendments shown…”

    They say it was a majority, but it was never not going to be one. A majority of one.

    “79B Policing services that may be subject to cost recovery
    (1)The Minister may recommend a regulation under section 102A only if the Minister is satisfied that the policing service in question is a demand service.
    (2)For the purposes of this section, demand servicemeans a service that
    —
    (a) constitutes policing; and
    (b) is provided only on the request of an individual or organisation; and
    (c) is provided to the individual or organisation requesting it for the direct
    benefit of a particular person or organisation (even though there may be
    indirect benefit to the public as a whole).

    (2) For the purposes of this section, demand service —
    (a) means a service that—
    (i) constitutes policing; and
    (ii) is provided only on the request of an individual or organisation;
    And (iii) is provided to the individual or organisation requesting it and is of
    direct benefit to that individual or organisation (even though provision of the service may also be of indirect benefit to the public
    as a whole); but
    (b) does not include—
    (i) the response of the Police to calls for service relating to potential
    offending:
    (ii)the conduct of criminal investigations:
    (iii)the prosecution of criminal offences.”

    Under the section titled “Labour Party minority view”:

    “…We also heard that the Police budget since 2010 has in real terms been cut by more than $90 million. Faced with having to do more with less, the Police have been told they can try to bridge the gap by charging for more of their services. The specific service which will be the first to be charged for is police vetting. Government justifies this on the grounds of the private benefit to service users…”

    “…This legislation has not been well thought through, is unclear in its application, and unfair in its likely impact. It represents a dangerous new direction and ideology in Police charging for basic services. We [Labour Party] are strongly opposed to it.”

    It was good of the Labour Party to remind people who already knew about the funding shortfall, otherwise they would’ve completely forgotten. Busy lives, anti-gay activities, $68.4million of property to look after, dinner parties, you know how it is, people forget stuff. As mentioned earlier by Tautoko Mangō Mata: So the incumbent government cuts police funding, then their core service supporters wail there is not enough funding, and the government agrees, and suggests they start charging charities and community groups, or almost anyone?

    Under the section “Green Party minority view”:

    “…We are told that the Police Commissioner will have the power to grant waivers or ex-emptions to fees, but nowhere are we told what the criteria or parameters for such consideration might be…”

    “The bill specifies that “demand services” do not include the response of Police to calls for service relating to criminal offending; the conduct of criminal investigations; the prosecution of criminal offences. This leaves open to potential charging most other services provided by Police, including crime prevention activities (e.g. in commercial or residential areas, where a “private benefit” might accrue to householders or business owners); education or advisory services to private or public organisations; search and rescue activities; and much else. The Green Party opposes this bill, and recommends that it not proceed.”

    So there is ambiguity over who is a private interest or not, although the paper suggests “people who help out in the community” aren’t targeted. However some community organisations who help out are targeted with police vetting fees, like Cancer Society, Salvation Army, Foundation for the Blind etc etc. Unions pickets might also be “private interests” too, but don’t worry, The Police Commissioner can waive fees.

    Did I say Commissioner of Police? That’s how it is right now, but section 79D of the new bill has been changed to remove the “Police” from “Police Commissioner”, and will say that simply a “Commissioner” will be in charge of decisions to recover cost. Also, who the costs are recovered from is open to interpretation. If you are part of a group and are deemed to have benefitted as an individual, you incur costs, but also individuals in the group could also incur costs. It’s a nice way to make sure the Commissioner knows where you are, I guess.

    Under the section “NZ First Party minority view”:

    “Community groups, NGO’s and other community organisations who rely on volunteers and are not well resourced financially may well be prevented from going through the vetting process because of the costs imposed upon them. When that happens, children, women, the elderly and other vulnerable members of our society may well be put at risk due to caregivers and others working with these vulnerable citizens not being vetted…”

    and

    “…it is the state that requires that all paid and unpaid staff in schools undergo a police check. Paying for the service will increase compliance costs which will have a negative impact on the operational budgets of schools, particularly small schools. New Zealand First does not support this bill…”

    So who was on the Committee?

    “…Committee process

    The Policing (Cost Recovery) Amendment Bill was referred to the Law and Order Committee on 4 November 2014. The closing date for submissions was 5 February 2015. We received and considered 132 submissions from interested groups and individuals. Of these, 25 submitters gave oral presentations to the committee. We received advice from the New Zealand Police. The Regulations Review Committee reported to the committee on the powers contained in clause 4.

    Committee membership:
    Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi (Chairperson) [National Party MP]
    Todd Barclay [National MP]
    Mahesh Bindra [NZ First MP]
    David Clendon [Green party MP]
    Kelvin Davis [Labour MP]
    Hon Phil Goff [Labour MP]
    Ian McKelvie [National Party MP]
    Lindsay Tisch [National Party member, assistant speaker of the house]
    Jonathan Young [National MP]”

    So, no way that was going to end by not being recommended. So who do we pay to tender for Police services? We pay a newly made bank account:

    “Departmental bank account.
    We recommend that new subsection 79F(2) be amended by deleting “a Crown Bank Account” and substituting “ a Departmental Bank Account”. The activities for which Police will be seeking to recover costs are all departmental, and the fees or charges
    will need to be available to meet the costs of providing the services…”.

    Readily available cash required, to fund the police doing something you want. Sounds familiar.

    • greywarshark 6.1
      30 June 2015 at 11:23 am

      Thanks about this horrid policing law.
      It is another example of National using its time in government to withdraw from their job of providing services, ensuring healthy business activity, advancing opportunities for increased wellbeing and stability in the country. What do they do – destroy the public systems of the country, destroy the diverse economy, and diminish the value of a universal government, and turn it into a grace and favour arrangement, like the owners of islands in Britain who probably establish rules for the people who are tenants to them.

      We voted these so and sos in with the help of lacklustre Labour too concreted in their individualistic superiority to utilise sharp political ploys and maneouvring. We might have lost still but even if like some NZ sports teams, playing well but falling away at the end, we would have put up a decent showing with feelings of pride instead of this sadness and fear that Labour has lost its mojo irretrievably.

      • Charles 6.1.1
        30 June 2015 at 11:43 am

        It is odd, isn’t it. I’m all for central government being as small as practical, and not poking their noses into people’s private lives, for example, except to assist wider freedoms/correct economic imbalances, but when our current crowd thinks of “small government” it means to take the same amount of funding from the public, but neglect their core duty, and remove themselves from assisting anything close to personal freedoms and instead abdicate power to control the population to private interests. Same funding, lower out-going costs. As you say: they’re just Corporate Robber Barons.

        • greywarshark 6.1.1.1
          30 June 2015 at 12:27 pm

          @Charles
          We see the Beehive, we have elections. we get bullied to pay our taxes, we have information gathering, statistics supplying Treasury, advice from deep thinkers with deep pockets at the OECD, it’s all for a good purpose we have been told and believe but what do we get?

          Bette Midler gives us the message – Is that all there is, then let’s keep dancing.
          Put the usual youtube prefix.
          com/watch?v=Fpn_xu81ySo

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2
      30 June 2015 at 3:30 pm

      That would open up the space for private police forces. How much longer will it be before corporations have standing armies?

  7. Clemgeopin 7
    30 June 2015 at 10:32 am

    Mihingarangi Forbes’ last programme , Native Affairs, was on Maori TV last night.

    Flavell, Turia, Peters and Mahuta were present.

    In spite of being invited, no buggers from the disgraceful National, ACT or UF bothered to show their face or had the intellectual fortitude or guts to turn up to face some very important questions! Useless pricks that do not deserve to be in parliament as people’s representatives.

    The video clips are here if you are interested:
    http://thestandard.org.nz/watch-native-affairs-tonight/#comment-1036572

  8. Bill 8
    30 June 2015 at 11:19 am

    Winter’s nice…

    ~ 2500 people dead in India’s recent heatwave.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Indian_heat_wave#Affected_areas

    ~ 1300 dead so far in Pakistan’s current heatwave.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pakistan-heatwave-claims-26-more-toll-nears-1300/articleshow/47853754.cms

    Spain and Portugal issuing health alerts as temperatures exceed 40 degrees C.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33316985

    Then there’s Canada and the US…
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/records-broken-heatwave-hits-northwest-150629104554904.html

  9. Clemgeopin 9
    30 June 2015 at 11:43 am

    Is Milk Bad for You? Diabetes and Milk.

    I don’t know. Don’t know what to believe either!

    http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/is-milk-bad-for-you-diabetes-and-milk/

  10. Clean_power 10
    30 June 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Who told D. Shearer to make the price comparison between milk and Coke? The former leader is ridiculing himself and Labour. He should keep his mouth shut, or is he playing dirty again?

    [we’re used to a higher standard of trolling here, Cp. Lift your game or, even better, talk to the issues in the poverty post. TRP]

  11. adam 11
    30 June 2015 at 12:45 pm

    I know it’s a link to advertising/marketing – but it’s a good link well worth looking at.

    Plus I think Mr Sanders has made a very clever use of colour.

    https://store.berniesanders.com/collections/all?sort_by=best-selling&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Bernie2016&utm_campaign=store_150629_3&utm_content=Bernie_shirt

  12. Ergo Robertina 12
    30 June 2015 at 1:24 pm

    Yet more bad news for those gleefully anticipating the end of newspapers – The Herald’s taking its subbery back in-house.
    At present it’s outsourced to an outfit called Pagemasters, and Gavin Ellis on Nine to Noon today admits he got it wrong earlier, by predicting the next step would be sending the subbing to Vietnam!
    So this is significant given the expected trajectory was very different.
    What a waste of time – so many lives disrupted by this nonsense.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201760464/media-commentator,-gavin-ellis

  13. Draco T Bastard 13
    30 June 2015 at 1:41 pm


    $4.2b plan to improve Auckland transport

    The NZ Transport Agency has announced details of a $4.2 billion, three-year programme to improve Auckland’s transport system.

    Regional director Ernst Zöllner says investment for 2015-18 includes $1.175b for public transport, $960 million to maintain state highways, and $91m to improve cycling and walking.

    – more to come

    Given those figures I’m guessing that means about $2.2 billion dollars on more fucken roads which is going to increase congestion and thus make Aucklands’ transport problems even worse.

    Decades of building more roads only to get more congestion and they haven’t learned a dammed thing.

  14. te reo putake 14
    30 June 2015 at 2:31 pm

    Rumours abounding that Ron Mark is trying to roll Tracey Martin for NZ First’s deputy leader position. I’d say that would be a backward step for the prospects of a progressive coalition Government next election.

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1
      30 June 2015 at 3:48 pm

      What the left really need to consider when it comes to Winston Peters is that he really, really, really likes the baubles of office so what can the Left offer Winston (who has also said his preference is to support the largest party) vs what the Right can offer

      Ambassador maybe but really what Winston wants the most is (imho of course) a title, the Right can offer him the title of Sir Winston Peters

      Can anyone here really say, hand on heart, that Winston doesn’t want a knighthood?

    • adam 14.2
      30 June 2015 at 10:56 pm

      I thought it odd that Ron Mark would roll Tracey Martin. I thought Tracey was doing a great job connecting to people. Were as Ron, not so much.

      Interesting to see if NZ could survive post Winston.

  15. Atiawa 15
    30 June 2015 at 2:42 pm

    The stark difference between Labour and National is on display in the public arena in respect of Saturdays super rugby final.

    Little says the government should put a halt to scalping (tickets now selling for $500) by utilising legislation already in place to declare the event one of national significance.

    National are downplaying the event and refuse to utilise the legislation

    Individual greed and profiteering at the expense of fairness and the collective good.

  16. Ergo Robertina 16
    30 June 2015 at 4:09 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11473471

    Otago University academics advocating a teen or pre-teen (age hasn’t been specified) long-acting contraception programme, on an opt-out basis.
    A rather bizarre suggestion. For one thing, it would increase STI rates.

    “For a programme to be effective you need to get as many people involved as possible and an opt-out programme seems to be more effective. You still get the right to say no and in terms of justice it treats everybody the same.”

    • Colonial Viper 16.1
      30 June 2015 at 5:28 pm

      Otago University academics advocating a teen or pre-teen (age hasn’t been specified) long-acting contraception programme, on an opt-out basis.
      A rather bizarre suggestion. For one thing, it would increase STI rates.

      Gosh, sounds like an argument by the Catholic Church.

      • Ergo Robertina 16.1.1
        30 June 2015 at 5:53 pm

        My argument is based on health effects, unintended consequences, resource use, and academic myopia, none of which relate to the misogynist dogma of the Catholic Church.

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.1
          30 June 2015 at 6:32 pm

          Increased use of contraception by teenagers will increase STI rates.

          The Catholic Church would likely approve of that statement IMO. They would probably also approve of your statement that the scientific evidence backs the position, too.

          • adam 16.1.1.1.1
            30 June 2015 at 10:50 pm

            Joy, more Catholic bashing.

            Anymore prejudices you’d like to get out in the open?

            Feel free, because you know I really enjoying reading twatish posts, here on the standard.

            • Colonial Rawshark 16.1.1.1.1.1
              30 June 2015 at 10:52 pm

              I’m not Catholic bashing, mate, and I apologise if I have offended you Adam.

              • adam …
                30 June 2015 at 11:22 pm

                I’m not offended Colonial Rawshark, just tired.

                I just see many Catholics, struggling, stressed and having it as hard as everyone else. It’s just painful to read these comments – not offencive, just painful.

                I just wish I could write up more things here on standard which I’m doing, but I have to keep confidentiality. And in many cases, people have just given up.

                There is a reason I loath the Tory scum, and hate when people who oppose them get stuck into side track arguments.

                It’s also why I give the labour party a hard time – I don’t dislike the activists. Thanks Lynn for bashing me on the head with that one, you were right. I just see a dysfunctional parliamentary wing, tethered to a structure which no matter what the activist do – enforces the labour party to stop being the ally to working people. Bureaucracy and Structures, are those villainous things, we would do well to destroy every now and then.

                So again, back to painful I suppose, and being tired. Just one of those days – I get to see people get hammered, and then there is bugger all I can do. And in many cases faith is all people have left, and it gets them out of bed the next day. When they would otherwise give up.

                I just see it as I another point the left fail at – respecting diversity. The nice words are there, but sometimes the other words slip in. I know you have copped some of that Colonial Rawshark, same as Stephanie Rodgers, and so have others.

                What I don’t understand why people can’t see that their freedom relies on respecting other people’s freedom. That their liberty is the liberty they must offer everyone else, and that through togetherness – we do get a better society.

            • vaughan little 16.1.1.1.1.2
              1 July 2015 at 4:14 am

              colonial viper is nuanced on religion. so he’s maybe some times bashing, other times supportive.

              if i were you i’d try not to bother being negative about negativity. christians are better off doing the work of jesus than wasting their precious time worrying about what the liberals are waffling on about. and they’re so miseducated/callous they wouldn’t be able to take in what you were on about anyway.

              on the other hand, christians are getting their arses kicked in an arm-long list of countries, and it’d be kind of lovely if “‘liberal’ ‘democracies'” were as jumpy about that stuff as they were about gay rights. maybe if christians HAD done a bunch of screaming and shouting over the past 30 years in these countries, then the christians in those countries would enjoy more attention from the governments of these countries.

              it’s good you’re speaking up, in a way, cos it shows you care and you’re tired, like i am, of the unceasing, generations-long drone of put-downs. i’d say strategically, it’d be better to organically connect your christian work (orphanages/foodbanky stuff etc) with your vocal opposition to christian bashing. some liberals out there might have reasonably functioning consciences and might might have their horizons expanded by what you’re saying. i fear that simply speaking out on fora like this is insufficiently christoform.

    • Charles 16.2
      30 June 2015 at 7:16 pm

      Unusual that academics would take that line, because I am pretty sure that safe sex advocates in NZ do not endorse chemical contraception in isolation, for the very reason you say – possible increase in STI through youngins thinking that contraception keeps them safe from disease. Then I read the reasoning in the article. Turns out it’s a “Solo mums cost too much” kind of research thing. Oh Herald, when will you disappear behind a paywall?

      • Ergo Robertina 16.2.1
        30 June 2015 at 7:31 pm

        What? Isn’t the story just quoting the academics?
        Here’s the press release: http://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago113426.html

      • Draco T Bastard 16.2.2
        30 June 2015 at 9:01 pm

        Unusual that academics would take that line, because I am pretty sure that safe sex advocates in NZ do not endorse chemical contraception in isolation,

        I didn’t see the academics taking that line either.

        Turns out it’s a “Solo mums cost too much” kind of research thing.

        Well, I suppose that the academics could be RWNJs but, then, they do have a point or two. Young solo mothers do cost and their offspring don’t do as well but I think that the solution to those is actually to have a better society rather than one that punishes people.

        Other than that, I’m in favour of freely available contraceptives and better sex education.

  17. Ron 17
    30 June 2015 at 7:49 pm

    What was the item on today’s news about the attempt to roll the Deputy Leader of NZ First Tracey Martin. It also seemed to suggest that the Ron Mark had something to do with it.
    Any ides what is happening. I was under the impression that Martin was the only sensible person in the NZF and a possible contender to replace Winston. Maybe that is the problem

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