Kia ora Gaza

Written By: - Date published: 8:41 am, June 30th, 2015 - 89 comments
Categories: aid, International, war - Tags: ,

Palestinian terrorists

Pro Palestinian terrorists intending to smuggle into Gaza weapons of mass destruction including solar panels and medical supplies.

Yesterday we had an early test for Murray McCully’s desire to solve the Middle East crisis.  Two Maori Television journalists, Native Affairs reporter Ruwani Perera and cameraman Jacob Bryant, have been detained by Israeli forces on their way to Gaza.  They were part of the Freedom Flotilla and were on a ship bound for Gaza with the terrorist idea that providing solar panels and medical supplies to Palestinians would somehow undermine Israel’s security.  Of course the reality is that the brutal unprincipled immoral way in which Israel treats Palestine is Israel’s greatest threat, not solar panels.

Those on board include Arab-Israeli lawmaker Basel Ghattas, Tunisia’s former president Moncef Marzouki and at least one European politician.  These people are brave, a similar flotilla five years ago was invaded by Israeli forces and nine people lost their lives.

Treatment of the flotilla is an affront to International Law and in a perfect world there would be a proper repercussion.  Al Jazeera is reporting that the flotilla was intercepted a hundred nautical miles from the Gaza shore in International waters.

There are past examples where such an interception has been justified on the basis that weapons of mass destruction were on board.  But on this particular flotilla the only things on board were emergency supplies intended to help Palestine repair its destroyed infrastructure and to treat its injured.

Those on board will be taken to an Israeli port and then banned from entering Israel for the next ten years.

Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu has the Israeli spin worked out well.  From the Herald:

This flotilla is nothing but a demonstration of hypocrisy and lies that is only assisting the Hamas terrorist organisation and ignores all of the horrors in our region,” he said in a statement.

“Preventing entry by sea was done in accordance with international law and even received backing from a committee of the UN secretary general.

“Defence Minister Moshe Yaalon said the flotilla “wasn’t humanitarian and didn’t seek to help anyone,” adding that “the participants were seeking to continue the campaign to delegitimise Israel.

“Israel imposed its blockade on Gaza in 2006 after Hamas captured an Israeli soldier, and tightened it a year later when the Islamist movement consolidated control of the territory.

Israel’s sense of proportionality is strange.  The capture of a single soldier, in its mind, justifies mass murder and destruction of Palestinian areas.

The treatment of Palestine is one of the grossest violations of human rights currently occurring on the planet.  If Murray McCully was being serious when he said that a priority would be to restore peace to the Middle East then the first thing that should be demanded of Israel is to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza so that the Palestinian People can start the rebuild of their area destroyed by the ferocity of continuous Israeli assaults.

89 comments on “Kia ora Gaza ”

  1. Tracey 1

    McCully willhave to get someone to have a quick chat tot he Israelis, explain that he needs to look tough on this, and, if they don’t mind, he is going to say publicly that Israel needs to release them asap, and he is in talks with them. mkaaay

  2. Roflcopter 2

    Treatment of the flotilla is an affront to International Law and in a perfect world there would be a proper repercussion.

    It’s a UN sanctioned blockade, are you saying the UN got it wrong?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      Which resolution was it?

      Next question: did you know you were telling lies? Or are you simply parroting lies you swallowed like a dupe?

    • Nope, you’ve got it wrong. It’s not UN sanctioned. The UN has investigated the blockade several times and has repeatedly said it was both unlawful and a form of collective punishment.

    • half crown 2.3

      “It’s a UN sanctioned blockade, are you saying the UN got it wrong?”

      You beat me to answer this OAB. However
      I will say what I was going to say.
      That is utter bullshit pal. Tell me was that the same sanction that let the Jews bomb civilians in that concentration camp called Gaza with outlawed White Phosphor Bombs., A war crime if ever there was one.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-drops-white-phosphorus-bombs-on-gazans/5393390

    • Colonial Rawshark 2.4

      Roflcopter – looks like your little remaining credibility on The Standard has just been shot to shreds.

    • mickysavage 2.5

      Are you referring to the Palmer Inquiry report?

      The summary said this:

      “The fundamental principle of the freedom of navigation on the high seas is subject to only certain limited exceptions under international law. Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.”

      As far as I am aware this is an advisory opinion only and has not been sanctioned by the UN. Besides see the bit about “legitimate security measure” means that a boat full of Parliamentarians with solar panels ought to be let through.

      • dukeofurl 2.5.1

        That seems to be Palmers position One memeber had a different opinion

        “On the legal aspect of the blockade, Turkey and Israel have submitted two opposing arguments.
        International legal authorities are divided on the matter since it is unprecedented, highly complex and the legal framework lacks codification. However, the Chairmanship and its report fully associated itself with Israel and categorically dismissed the views of the other, despite the fact that the legal arguments
        presented by Turkey have been supported by the vast majority of the international community. Common sense and conscience dictate that the blockade is unlawful.

        If you read other findings of fact, its hard to see how the ‘panel’ came to its majority finding of israel being in the clear.
        eg

        “Israel’s decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great
        distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior
        to the boarding was excessive and unreasonable: ”

        “Nine passengers were killed and many others seriously wounded by Israeli forces.
        No satisfactory explanation has been provided to the Panel by Israel for any
        of the nine deaths. Forensic evidence showing that most of the deceased were
        shot multiple times, including in the back, or at close range has not been
        adequately accounted for in the material presented by Israel.”

        There was significant mistreatment of passengers by Israeli authorities after
        the take-over of the vessels had been completed through until their
        deportation. This included physical mistreatment, harassment and
        intimidation, unjustified confiscation of belongings and the denial of timely
        consular assistance.

        Its clear that it facts were against Israel but the panel didnt want to upset them.
        Geoffrey Palmer to a T- rainbow warrior anyone.

    • Naturesong 2.6

      “unsanctioned” != “UN sanctioned”

  3. Save NZ 3

    More propaganda from Granny Herald.

    Hope they go the way of TV3.

    McCully can’t even save a sheep or get the Navy to intercept fishing pirates in our waters, so I’m not sure if he is capable of any type of action to help Kiwis.

    Good on the brave people in the flotilla, they are true peace makers.

  4. Steve 4

    Regarding the discussion above as to legality, I note the September 2011 United Nations report prepared by former Labour Party Prime Minister and Attorney General of New Zealand Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Palmer QC is the most authoritative, independent, and robust official report on the matter. In particular, the report noted that the UN investigative committee for the 2010 Flotilla to Gaza found that the Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza is legal under international law.

    In particular, the report states: “Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza … The naval blockade was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law.”

    Please note that a blockade under international law encompasses all traffic across the blockade boarder. This means that the enforcing State has no obligation to discriminate between shipments of goods that pose a direct threat (i.e. bombs) and ships that do not pose a direct threat (i.e. solar panels). On this basis, the IDF’s actions in the present situation can be deemed legal under international law.

    I would also like to note that Israel assists with the transport of humanitarian supplies to Gaza every single day – 800 truckloads a day, more than 1.6 million tons of supplies this past year. The equivalent of 1 ton per resident of Gaza. Further, Israel extended an invitation to Kia Ora Gaza to transit the “aid supplies” to Gaza through the Israeli controlled boarder. This would have been a simpler and a more environmentally friendly option for Kia Ora Gaza, but obviously lacked the PR appeal the NGO was seeking.

    For clarity, I believe this was just a publicity stunt by activists aimed at provoking the IDF as much as possible. The result, a peaceful/ non-eventful boarding and detention of the vessel was inevitable.

    If anything, the activists will possibly be upset that the IDF didn’t use more force. Other than shared anti-Semitic values, many of these so called activists share only one other thing in common with the terrorist Government they support – they crave the Martyr’s stake.

    The Standard post here correctly (albeit sarcastically) notes that there are past examples of weapons being transited through the blockade and into Gaza. That is precisely why the blockade is in force.

    • Anne 4.1

      Israel extended an invitation to Kia Ora Gaza to transit the “aid supplies” to Gaza through the Israeli controlled boarder. This would have been a simpler and a more environmentally friendly option for Kia Ora Gaza, but obviously lacked the PR appeal the NGO was seeking.

      Can you supply evidence that these claims are accurate? Because my bullshit detector tells me Israel ‘is spinning like a top’ at worst, or ‘only telling half the story’ at best. You see my rationale is:

      had “Israel” merely boarded the ship… conducted a search which proved there were no WMDs on board (and given the passenger list there obviously isn’t) and then let them continue on their way… there would have been no publicity.

      So that drives a big hole through your theory that the voyage is just a publicity stunt.

      And for your elucidation: being against the current neo-fascist Israeli government is NOT being anti-Semitic. As someone who was one closely associated with Jewish people in England, I find that claim highly offensive!

      • Anne 4.1.1

        In the last sentence one is meant to be once.

        Is there a moderator’s category for banning someone who is inciting verbal violence on this blogsite? I say it only half jokingly. 😡

        • Bill 4.1.1.1

          I believe I’ve banned on that bullshit when it’s been specifically aimed at me. I agree that it’s deeply offensive.

        • greywarshark 4.1.1.2

          I’d say we would need a blockade against such comments. Each word of the comment would be referred to a specially written word analyser which would assess if there was aggressive or violent or threatening aspects to the word and which would then give it a reading from 1 to 10. And so on through the comment. There would be a pass rate for the comment if there was no individual reading more than 4 and the total acceptability reading would only be 2. That is to allow for ambiguous words.

          Now I think that would be very fair to such bigots and slanderers spraying loaded words like anti Semite with abandon.

          • Steve 4.1.1.2.1

            Yes, that does seem like a good way of stagnating all serious debate & excluding views that you personally disagree with. Simply amazing greywarshark!

            • Bill 4.1.1.2.1.1

              Nah Steve. Stupidly slandering everyone who criticises the Israeli government as an anti-Semite is what stagnates all serious debate. Funnily enough, in light of the condemnation implicit to your comment, it’s principally a ploy to shut down and exclude views not in tune with the lines of doggerel slime-arsing their way out of the Knesset.

              • Steve

                It’s useful in my view to maintain a healthy skepticism on all political issues & I frequently disagree with policies implemented by the Knesset as indeed with policies of all other Parliaments.

                Personally, I make a very strong distinction between the Hamas Government and the civilians of Gaza, & I am a passionate supporter of the dignity and rights of the civilians living in Gaza. Although, I have noticed that a strong number of “Gaza supporters” fail to hold the Hamas Government to the equivalent standard. I’ve never seen any sort of movement on this blog calling for Hamas to stop torturing its citizens or to stop detonating bombs over Israel.

                I am principally opposed to Hamas for a number of reasons; indiscriminate violence it directs at the citizens of Israel (as distinguished from the Government of Israel being only one objection I have). But equally importantly, the violence it routinely visits on ‘its’ own populations (apostrophes used because it is not elected & has no clear mandate to govern) – particularly on its religious minorities (now almost extinct), its women, its non-religious, its homosexuals, “traitors”, and young boys who refuse to fight in a terrorist army!

                Now, I’m not making excuses for the IDF’s overreaction to ‘incidents’, I am only pointing out that this is a multi-faceted debate.

                Regarding the antisemitism, I was highly disparaged by numerous hateful & anti-jewish sentiments that were outwardly exhibited at a Kia Ora Gaza march in Auckland last year. I witnessed them myself & have video and photographic evidence. Obviously not all of it, but certainly a strong element of it was total vitriol & was directed at jewish people (including jewish New Zealanders), as opposed to the State of Israel. And again for clarity, there is a significant distinction!

                • “I witnessed them myself & have video and photographic evidence.”

                  Ok, I’ll bite. Where can we see your evidence?

                • Bill

                  (apostrophes used because it [Hamas] is not elected & has no clear mandate to govern)

                  The last elections in Gaza were in 2006. Hamas won that election. (The prior election was in 1996) There is now a National Unity Government (Hamas and Fatah) in light of bollocks and bullshit stalling further elections.

                  Not a flash situation. But clearly, Hamas was elected by the citizens.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Democracy doesn’t count if the US/Israeli preferred people don’t get elected into office.

                  • Instauration

                    “when the Islamist movement consolidated control of the territory”
                    Like – when they were victorious in the 2006 election.
                    People have been “pointing out that this is a multi-faceted debate” for over 50 years as a tactical attempt to equalise the facets that are screamingly not equal. Do the body count numbers gws !
                    How can Israel be trusted – remember GA181 and what it obliged Israel to deliver ?
                    We measure Israel by its failures.

            • greywarshark 4.1.1.2.1.2

              Yes Steve I am amazing. I still think that some time the Israelis will be able to bring their fine minds that have brought so many wonderful ideas and thoughts to the world, can find a way to see past the past that has been traumatic.

              And work to gain a future of neighbourly acknowledgment, fair treatment and peace and forgiveness for the trangressions of the Palestinians and those of the Israelis, for their own often brutal and assymetric responses that ensure the continuance of grievance and complaint and uncivilised repetition of concentration camp life.

              Now that is serious. As for debate there have been numerous attempts to achieve some breakthrough with talks, but with no absolute commitment to goodwill and restraint on the Israeli side. The Israeli Army is in control and defence forces get training to fight and that is all they know.

            • North 4.1.1.2.1.3

              Bullshit accusation of anti-semitism is not serious debate. It is the spleening of those who want to turn a blind eye to the murder and apartheid synonymous with Zionist Israel. Be simply amazed if you want to be Steve. Doesn’t conceal the palpability of your taste for Zionist murder and apartheid. It is all about the diseased claim to Zionist ‘exceptionalism’. That’s it…….Zionist exceptionalism over and above the entire world. Hmmm…….a thousand years ?

              • Kevin

                Zionist is code for Jewish. Your whole post is anti-semitic.

                • Nope. Zionist is code for racist. Learn some history, troll.

                  • Kevin

                    Nope, it’s code for jewish.

                    ” It is all about the diseased claim to Zionist ‘exceptionalism’. That’s it…….Zionist exceptionalism over and above the entire world. Hmmm…….a thousand years ?”

                    Just replace Zionist with Jewish and it’s as clear as day.

                    • Nope, it’s code for being racist. However, being born Jewish does not make one a racist. Adopting racism as a world view is very much an adult decision.

      • dukeofurl 4.1.2

        Absolutely right Anne.

        Of course palestinians are semitic people too !. Arabic is a semitic language.

        Anti semitism is now normally considered to be hatred against jews.

      • Steve 4.1.3

        Evidence… Yes, refer to the Ministry of Interior’s guidance on the supply of aid to controlled territories – it’s online & easy to find if you’re willing to open your mind to more peaceful solutions.

        I would also note that Kia Ora Gaza has entered Gaza freely through the Israel controlled border on numerous occasions in compliance with Israeli laws and guidance – it’s just seldom reported because it lacks controversy & therefore PR appeal. Indeed, New Zealander Julie Webb-Pullman was present on at least one such mission.

        As for the voyage, it doesn’t seem logical to ship any goods into Gaza by sea given the legal international blockade. Indeed, Hamas itself usually prefers to smuggle weapons into Gaza through tunnels because it lacks any form of superiority at sea. Therefore, if someone asked me how I could get solar panels and medical supplies into Gaza & suggested entry on the coast, I would immediately say the effort would be futile. Indeed, I would advise the caring activists that the best course of action is to take the supplies through an Israeli (or formally through an Egyptian) controlled border entrance. I would also advise this as the much cheaper, safer and more environmentally friendly option.

        In summary, purchasing a small ship, filling it with some $50,000 of fuel, sailing it across the Mediterranean Sea & all to supply a meek quantity of aid to the civilians of Gaza is an inefficient exercise: 1) It’s easier and cheaper to get the supplies through the Israeli border; 2) there is almost no chance of success due to the legally enforced blockade; 3) the Mediterranean is a dangerous sea, especially for a boat not designed to make that passage; 4) attempting to breach the UN-sanctioned blockade is illegal and places people in danger; 5) it’s not a good idea to leave crappy old boats in countries where they are likely to end up being used by human traffickers.

        All in all however, the mission did not actually fail in its objective of seeking attention hence why you all feel compelled to defend it & moan about it.

        • mickysavage 4.1.3.1

          Your source is an Israeli Government ministry?

          And silly me. The Israeli Government is not engaged in genocide, it is more than happy to facilitate the delivery of aid to the Palestinians. Nor is it unilaterally grabbing Palestinian land. It only has the best of intentions for Palestine.

          And if things are as you say there is no need for the blockade.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.3.2

          Evidence… Yes, refer to the Ministry of Interior’s guidance on the supply of aid to controlled territories

          “Controlled territories”? Pretty sure you mean future Israeli territories awaiting ethnic cleansing.

    • mickysavage 4.2

      As to the legality see my comment above. As to the supply of aid do you have a citation?

      And do you think the last boarding when 9 civilians were killed and 50 injured was also a peaceful non eventful boarding?

      My reference to the previous blockade was to the US blockade of Cuba during the missile crisis. Even this was probably illegal but there is a world of difference between a solar panel and a nuclear weapon.

    • Colonial Rawshark 4.3

      I would also like to note that Israel assists with the transport of humanitarian supplies to Gaza every single day – 800 truckloads a day, more than 1.6 million tons of supplies this past year. The equivalent of 1 ton per resident of Gaza.

      So, why is it that Israel has to help ship humanitarian supplies into Gaza? Oh yes, that’s right, Israel maintains Gaza as an open air prison for Palestinians, and is determined to eventually strangle all economic and social life out of the area and take it for itself.

    • Colonial Rawshark 4.4

      If anything, the activists will possibly be upset that the IDF didn’t use more force (1). Other than shared anti-Semitic values (2), many of these so called activists share only one other thing in common with the terrorist Government (3) they support – they crave the Martyr’s stake (4).

      Given how densely packed and smooth your bullshit is I presume you are an Israeli “hasbara” (propaganda) operator.

      http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.659480

      • Steve 4.4.1

        Or maybe I’m just a considerate citizen with views that differ from yours somewhat. Good try though Clonial Rawshark. Give this one a go 🙂

        אני רק בשימוש באינטרנט לתרגם לגרום לך 🙂

        • dukeofurl 4.4.1.1

          Still stealing NZ passports ? Or have you switched to foreign backpackers now ?

        • Bill 4.4.1.2

          A considerate citizen wouldn’t label as anti-Semite, those who criticise a government and its actions.

      • Bill 4.4.2

        I do hope you’re not drawing any tentative conclusions from the fact that this ‘Steve’ has never commented on any other thread at ‘the standard’ – like, not ever.

        I also trust it’s not that you’re spotting tired old tropes in his replies?

        Wonder if he’ll be back for the next time Israel comes up in a post or whether it’s all pot luck on what thread within which website you get? Not that I’m jumping to any conclusions here, because that would be, like…. jumping to a conclusion. 😉

        • Colonial Viper 4.4.2.1

          Well, “Steve” did raise my eyebrows with his very smooth practised lines. I wonder if they teach kids in Israel about the Warsaw Ghetto.

          • Anne 4.4.2.1.1

            Well, “Steve” did raise my eyebrows with his very smooth practised lines.

            Maybe Mossad are into rote learning…

        • North 4.4.2.2

          Nah nah, Steve (aka Mark Regev) will be back on the occasion of the next biennial ‘shooting-fish-in-a-barrel’ adventure in Gaza. ‘Gaza Sports Tours Inc.’ Very moderate tariffs for the keen zionist sportsman – annually subsidised to the tune of $US3,000,000,000 military aid by successive US administrations.

          http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.611001#!

          What say you – glib, lying , zionist propagandist Steve ?

          • Kevin 4.4.2.2.1

            Why don’t you just say Jewish instead of Zionist and be done with it.

            • Bill 4.4.2.2.1.1

              just to jump in on something really fucking obvious.

              Jews are not necessarily Zionists and many Jews are critical of Zionism. That reason enough?

    • half crown 4.5

      Steve

      Have a look how Israel tries to be buddies with their neighbours, when they are not stealing their land that is.

    • Naturesong 4.6

      So, these Israelis are anti-Semite’s?

      I think the logic part of your brain is broken.

      From the outside, most often it’s the Israeli govt position that gets reported.

      When I lived there at the turn of the century, many of the people I spoke to were deeply ashamed at Ariel Sharon’s actions which sparked the second intefada. And a significant number of those people also wanting him to be tried as a war criminal for his previous actions in Lebanon.

      Are they anti-Semites as well?

  5. Bill 5

    Is there a Godwin equivalent for this boring fucking nonsense that always seeks to sell anti-Israeli sentiment as somehow anti-Semitic?

    I mean, fuck, by the leaping logic routinely indulged in by Israeli apologists, criticising the NZ government becomes instantly anti-Royalist, anti-protestant and anti- Christian.

  6. Skeptic Sally 6

    The only person making any logical arguments in this thread, backed up by actual hard facts and evidence, is Steve. The rest of you just sound desperate and irrational. This is the kind of bullshit that makes me embarrassed to be a left-winger.

    Personally I thought this little PR stunt was idiotic, attention-seeking posturing designed to try and provoke a reaction and then moan about it afterwards.

    Why would I trust so-called “journalists” who neglect their professional duty to remain balanced and report on both sides of the world’s most complex, long-running land dispute?

    You all seem determined to see it as a black-and-white issue. Israel = baddies, Palestinians = goodies. Get real. Life is more complicated than that.

    • Anne 6.1

      Back-up’s arrived.

    • Colonial Rawshark 6.2

      Please, what is your “complicated” “not black and white” take on the two IDF guided missiles used to kill the four children playing on Gaza beach, a hundred metres or so from a hotel where journalists were staying, in July 2014?

      I understand that the digitally enhanced optics and surveillance systems used by Israeli naval vessels in the area would have left no doubt on a clear sunny day what exactly they were targetting. Palestinian children, playing on the beach.

      • Sylvia 6.2.1

        No one can say Israel is right and Palestine is wrong or vice versa, though Israel has more money! Tit-for-tat fights, big walls, for fucks sake…………….adult kindergarten anyone? It is a good thing human beings are assigned to earth (phew), they have to grow up first, before they get into the big wide world!

        If God exists He/She would look at earth and be truly impressed!

        • Colonial Rawshark 6.2.1.1

          No one can say Israel is right and Palestine is wrong or vice versa, though Israel has more money! Tit-for-tat fights, big walls, for fucks sake…………….adult kindergarten anyone?

          Please explain how deliberately killing children with guided missiles is like “adult kindergarten.” Also please explain whether you think that it is “right or wrong.”

      • Kevin 6.2.2

        What’s yours on the fact that Palestinians use children as propaganda tools and send them out strapped with bombs? Or that Hamas uses hospitals and schools as cover?

        As for the journalists it’s a shame they didn’t get shot by the IDF. Would have made a good entry in the next Darwin Awards. Perhaps as the Israeli PM said they got lost on their way to Syria.

        • mickysavage 6.2.2.1

          Citation please.

          As for your comment about the journalists it makes your world view utterly clear.

          In fact your whole comment is so irrational and inhumane I do not know where to start …

          • Kevin 6.2.2.1.1

            There you go:

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753176/Hamas-DID-use-schools-hospitals-Gaza-Strip-human-shields-launch-rocket-attacks-Israel-admits-says-mistake.html

            Of course Hamas is saying it was mistake (like they didn’t know they were firing missiles from a hospital!)

            • te reo putake 6.2.2.1.1.1

              You probably should have read the article, not just the headline, Kevin. It doesn’t support your claim that Hamas used hospitals and schools as cover. Pretty much the opposite, actually.

              • Kevin

                So the headline “Hamas admits it DID use schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as ‘human shields’ to launch rocket attacks on Israel – but claims it was ‘mistake'” doesn’t support my claim that Hamas used hospitals and schools as cover???

                Or do you actually believe Hamas when they say it was mistake despite evidence that it wasn’t? Or is that all Israeli propaganda? God damn dirty jews.

                • That’s the words of the Daily Mail journalist writing the article, not Hamas. The article then goes on to show that they did not use schools and hospitals as cover. As I said, you need to actually read the article, Kevin.

                  • Kevin

                    The article is heavily-slanted and an apologist piece for Hamas which is why I picked it – anything else and you would be crying Israeli propaganda. And you’re basically saying Hamas is lying when they say they used schools and hospitals in Gaza Strip as ‘human shields’ to launch rocket attacks on Israel.

                    When you’re in a hole it’s best to stop digging.

                    • Hamas didn’t say that, Kevin. That’s the words of the journalist in the intro paragraph. (Didn’t I already point that out?) And it’s the Daily Mail FFS! The most right wing newspaper in Britain, by a considerable distance. I bet that’s the first time they’ve ever been called Hamas apologists!

                    • mickysavage

                      How about this Kevin. Where this situation turned from a war to a massacre is in the last few years when the total number of Palestinians killed far exceeded the total number of Israelis killed. Here are the figures from July to August last year:

                      Israelis killed (including soldiers): 73
                      Palestinians killed: 2,100 plus

                      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28439404

    • Instauration 6.3

      Oh Sally
      Is this dispute really “the world’s most complex, long-running land dispute” – Really ?
      Tell me more – and back it by actual hard facts and evidence.

    • Kevin 6.4

      The Left tends to side with what it perceives as the “underdog”. Back in history Israel was supported by the Left when it was the underdog but when they became no longer the underdog the Left switched sides. Also the fact the Israel took the capitalist/democratic route didn’t help much either.

      In other words if Israel was socialist/communist and was barely hanging on (i.e. was the underdog) it would have the support of the Left.

      The problem with this is sometimes the so-called underdog is wrong, especially when the underdog happens to be a terrorist death cult.

  7. Sylvia 7

    “Please explain how deliberately killing children with guided missiles is like “adult kindergarten.””

    Do ‘mature’ minded people act like this? No they don’t!

    “Also please explain whether you think that it is “right or wrong.””

    I am saying NO ONE can say that one side is right and the other side is wrong, because both sides are obviously “wrong”. But it doesn’t help that Israel has more money, and more ‘power’ on the world stage!

    • Colonial Rawshark 7.1

      Israel is dead wrong and they should have learnt by now that the Warsaw Ghetto was not an example to be followed.

      Do ‘mature’ minded people act like this? No they don’t!

      It’s got nothing to do with maturity and everything to do with cruelty and inhumanity.

      • Sylvia 7.1.1

        ‘Mature’ people are balanced in-the-mind, when you are balanced in-the-mind you are therefore healthy, and healthy minded people are not cruel or inhumane!

        Healthy people do not run around like retarded animals!

    • Kevin 7.2

      Israel has been wrong in that they’ve believed that the Palestinians have wanted peace – real peace that is. Israel should extend it’s borders as far as they will go and drive the Palestinians out of the so-called occupied territories and let places like Jordan and Lebanon deal with them. I’m sure those countries will welcome them with open arms.

  8. Instauration 8

    Oh Sally
    Stuart Murray Wilson = baddies.
    Those who suffered Stuart Murray Wilson = goodies.
    The relativity of the evil to consequence polarises.
    Life is that simple.

    • Molly 8.1

      Aleksandr says it so much better than I ever could:

      If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

  9. Kevin 9

    Here is the letter from the Israeli prime minister to the “journalists”:

    “Welcome to Israel!

    It seems you got lost. Perhaps you meant to sail to a place not far from here – Syria. There the Assad regime slaughters his people every day with the support of the murderous Iranian regime.

    Despite that, here in Israel we are dealing with a situation where terror organizations, such as Hamas, are attempting to harm innocent civilians. Against attempts like these we are defending the citizens of Israel in accordance with international law.

    Despite that, Israel assists with the transport of humanitarian supplies to Gaza – 800 truckloads a day, more than 1.6 million tons of supplies this past year. The equivalent of 1 ton per resident of Gaza.

    By the way, the volume of equipment that has been sent from Israel to Gaza is more than 500,000 times larger than the your boats that you are arriving on.

    Israel assists in hundreds of humanitarian projects via international organization including the establishment of medical clinics and hospitals.

    But we are not willing to allow in weapons to the terrorist organizations in Gaza, as they have tried to do in the past, by sea.

    Just a year ago, we stopped an attempt to bring in hundreds of weapons by sea, that were meant to harm innocent civilians.

    There’s no closure on Gaza, and you are welcome to to transport, via Israel, any humanitarian supplies.

    The sea blockade is in accordance with international law, and has received backing from the UN Secretary General.

    If human rights were truly important to you, you wouldn’t be sailing in solidarity with a terror regime that executes, without trial, residents of Gaza, and uses the children of Gaza as human shields.

    If you were to come to Israel you would be able to be impressed by the only democracy in the Middle East that is concerned with equality for all its citizens, and freedom of religion for all faiths. A state that operates in accordance with international law in order to provide its residents a secure life and its children to grow up in peace and serenity.”

    I think the journalists should have just gone by foot instead!

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