Open mike – Friday the 13th 2013

125 comments on “Open mike – Friday the 13th 2013 ”

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1. Ad 1

   13 September 2013 at 8:55 am

   Get ready for an almighty surge of patriotism.
   We are likely to win the America’s Cup.
   It’s the grand alliance of media, corporates and government on an even more intense scale than Rugby World Cup.

   This, together with the Convention Centre build starting late 2014, has a good chance of tilting the Auckland electorates harder towards National. Key will surf this.

   The left needs to start debating how to counter this.
   • ropata 1.1

     13 September 2013 at 9:06 am

     party pooper.

     $40 million(nz.govt contribution) was a good investment in our boatbuilding industry, waterfront development, and tourism.

     not to mention that the racing is very popular so it would be political stupidity to oppose it.
     • Ad 1.1.1

       13 September 2013 at 9:55 am

       Excellent illustration of the Left’s bind.
       The point is to win with greatly decreased media oxygen to grow.
       How?

       Remember, America’s Cup parade likely to be down Auckland’s Queen Street within10 days.

       The game just shifted, esp for ak electorate.
       • Pasupial 1.1.1.1

         13 September 2013 at 10:19 am

         Aren’t Labour in favour of increasing R&D in order to stimulate NZ businesses? Squealing about the cost now; when the investment looks like paying off, seems to be inadvisable. It’s a better spend than the smelter deal – that’s for sure.

         If Team NZ does win the cup then that’ll mean a need to prepare for the challenge in a few years time. The left needs to develop a plan for improving the transport infrastructure in Auckland to cope with that (remember the RWC chaos). Labour may be busy with the Leadership contest at the moment, but this should be a priority for the winner.
   • Enough is Enough 1.2

     13 September 2013 at 9:55 am

     The campaign should really begin now, because next week the flag wavers will be out in full voice.

     No more taxpayers money for a billionaires piss-up on the water.

     If is going to bring in so much money let the arsehole rich pricks pay for it.
     • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 1.2.1

       13 September 2013 at 10:03 am

       Ya reckon that’s going to be a popular policy?
       • Enough is Enough 1.2.1.1

         13 September 2013 at 10:17 am

         Do you support $40M being spent on this sham of a sport?
         • Populuxe1 1.2.1.1.1

           13 September 2013 at 2:43 pm

           Given our boat building industry is worth about $1 billion, hell yes I do. Don’t be such a wowser.
           • Tim 1.2.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2013 at 7:44 pm

             I’m not disputing that $1b figure Populexicle – but since you’ve put it forward, could you give details as to where, when and how that $1b is arrived at?
           • Ad 1.2.1.1.1.2

             13 September 2013 at 8:30 pm

             I fully support it as well. It may well support billionaires, but it also supports highly skilled tradies who could easily otherwise have become bog standard chippies and panelbeaters earning $30 an hour rather than $80.

             But can Labour look straight into a tv camera and find a way of praising the America’s Cup in a manner strikingly different to National?

             The new Labour leader has until Monday morning to find out.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               14 September 2013 at 5:46 am

               but it also supports highly skilled tradies who could easily otherwise have become bog standard chippies and panelbeaters earning $30 an hour rather than $80.

               Whatever makes you think that chippies and panlebeaters aren’t highly skilled?
   • Not a PS Staffer 1.3

     13 September 2013 at 9:56 am

     I’m sure Trevor is hatching a cunning plan.
     • Saarbo 1.3.1

       13 September 2013 at 10:39 am

       Im no Mallard fan, but this $40m falls into economic development rather than expenditure on elite sport and I suspect if Labour had not put the money in from the start, then Team NZ wouldn’t have got off the ground.
       On balance this is money well spent, yes the rich pricks get to party but Im sure that this will be a good investment for our boat building industry, which is a good employer and seems to be one of our few strengths. I havent seen any analysis but my guess: Money well spent on growing kiwi jobs.
   • bad12 1.4

     13 September 2013 at 9:57 am

     i can’t see either figuring much come November 2014, concrete block edifices such as the convention center are hardly going to figure in the minds of the wider Auckland electorate, house affordability and availability will be more to the fore and if the audience for ‘the vote’ was an indicative cross section of voters the other night then i would suggest that National are in big big trouble on that issue,

     Wrong year for the boat race too i would suggest, the hoopla will have died down from the win by November next year and it will be back to sleep until the next one which might give whoever is the Government at 2017 some brownie point from the feel good factor,

     Lolz, the ‘Cup’ has even got me succumbing to turning on the tv at 8 in the morning, it looks like the Yanks have spent 200 million on a lemon and the crew aren’t quite up to it either,

     New Zealand has the faster boat in the bigger air and the better crew in the lighter stuff when it comes down to a ‘tacking duel’, plus 1 for kiwi-engineering…
     • Ad 1.4.1

       13 September 2013 at 5:14 pm

       Unfortunately the media don’t give a flying fig about the huddled masses of the wider Auckland electorate.

       The media care about their sponsors, and about turning everything, including politics, into a competitive sport. We can weep about that, or figure it out.

       The narrow question is how to penetrate the mdeia cycle when now so much of airtime especially newstime will be given over to corporate-sport concerns.
       There are wider policy and policy-retail questions to answer, but that’s the big one coming up.

       Doesn’t matter if you think it’s the wrong year for anything; it’s happening.
   • Blue 1.5

     13 September 2013 at 10:39 am

     “The left needs to start debating how to counter this.” Be appealing to the voter, have policies that people want to vote for.
     • Pasupial 1.5.1

       13 September 2013 at 10:55 am

       Blue

       The left have the policies, what they’ve needed is a leader that is capable of communicating them with conviction. Norman, Turei, and Harawira have stepped up to fill the vacuum left by Shearer in the last 20 months. After this weekend, I hope that Labour will be back in the contest with Cunliffe at the helm as leader of the opposition.
     • Populuxe1 1.5.2

       13 September 2013 at 2:44 pm

       And also stop moralising to the working classes and indulging in negative bitchy politics.
2. travellerev 2

   13 September 2013 at 9:11 am

   So against his ministers advice John Key just picked up the phone and promised Sandeep Biswas the CEO of Pacific smelter ltd $30 million of taxpayers money? No wonder the queen, who after all is the major shareholder of Rio Tinto which owns the smelter, invites John Key to Balmoral. He’s been a very good boy!
3. Sanctuary 3

   13 September 2013 at 9:13 am

   A great article on the rise of a new, more economically focused left in the USA

   http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/12/the-rise-of-the-new-new-left.html

   It seems the centre-left across the Anglosphere is moving away from third way politics and back to the politics of redistribution, and for similar reasons.

   Oh and I support funding the America’s cup for three reasons:

   1/ The feel good factor. What price on feeling pleased with ourselves?

   2/ A new narrative of a New Zealand that is a first world with high technology industries that create high paying jobs instead of being a bunch of inoffensive and cuddly hobbits in a bucolic shire here to serve our visitors in low paying service sector jobs is well over due.

   3/ If the government contribution is of the order of $40-50 millions then the economic return will exceed that easily.
   • ropata 3.1

     13 September 2013 at 9:36 am

     lol @ “inoffensive and cuddly hobbits in a bucolic shire here to serve our visitors in low paying service sector jobs” although it seems reasonably accurate

     don’t forget our 100% pure environment and crime free, peaceful non racist society
   • Saarbo 3.2

     13 September 2013 at 12:32 pm

     +1,

     and this success will be justification to up the tax rates on the top tax brackets.
4. tracey 4

   13 September 2013 at 9:21 am

   Jordan williams on the panel yesterday described robertson as his very good friend. Was his tongue in his ckeek?
   • bad12 4.1

     13 September 2013 at 9:33 am

     i would have suggested His tongue was firmly wedged in another orifice, but, it is Friday the 13th and i might get bit if i did…
     • Tim 4.1.1

       13 September 2013 at 7:48 pm

       One of those ‘open relationships’ then huh?
       Rimmington Rand – I was so impressed – I bought the company!
   • js 4.2

     13 September 2013 at 10:20 am

     Jordan Williams was campaign manager for (Jim Mora’s good friend) Stephen Franks when the latter was National Party candidate for Wellington Central in the 2008 general election. That was the first time Grant Robertson stood for Labour in that seat. Their paths would have crossed a few times since in this city, and I expect Jordan has a grudging respect for him.
5. tracey 5

   13 September 2013 at 9:39 am

   Lol
   • bad12 5.1

     13 September 2013 at 10:17 am

     Grant Robertson’s point of imposing rent controls in Christchurch was a bit of an eye opener for many showing that when faced with the evidence of the rack-renting of the wrecks down there He most certainly would intervene in the market,

     With the abysmal Brownlee and the equally abysmal National in control of Christchurch at the moment the name of the game is ‘Opportunity’,

     Christchurch should have been declared a special economic zone with a Commission put in place to ensure that all business activity was conducted within the bounds of fair market prices,

     The State with all the resources it has, should have by now had a factory built in Christchurch capable of prefabricating multiple houses weekly, National of course will rebuild the State housing estate from within the confines of Rolleston Prison, all good for teaching prisoners some skills, but, creating a huge shortage of affordable rentals in Christchurch for the foreseeable future…
     • vto 5.1.1

       13 September 2013 at 10:47 am

       Yep bad12, free market rules, but only for those at the bottom end of town.

       Those at the top end of town get their inner city property values backed by government intervention.

       Fucking arseholes
6. Rosie 6

   13 September 2013 at 10:05 am

   Whoah! That new image for Open Mike reminds me I’m waaay over due to go to the dentist.
   • LynWiper 6.1

     13 September 2013 at 10:15 am

     Certainly eye catching! And don’t get me started on affordability of dental treatment in NZ.
     • Rosie 6.1.1

       13 September 2013 at 11:05 am

       Oh I know! I was told one year ago that I needed a filling, pronto, but other living expenses have gone on the credit card. What started out as a minimum $250 quote is now probably a whole lot more.

       One thing to add to the incredibly long wish list of health policy in NZ is universal dental care. But I digress………….Got to get Key booted out and Labour under Cunliffe in first up. Socialised dental care would be at the bottom of the “TO DO” list. A project for another time perhaps.
       • phillip ure 6.1.1.1

         13 September 2013 at 11:34 am

         “..Socialised dental care would be at the bottom of the “TO DO” list. ..”

         ..i think this would be do-able..especially starting with those least able to afford dental-care..

         ..why not develop a plan to subsidise the last couple of yrs of a dental-students’ expenses..

         ..in return for a promise from them to bond for a set period of time..to work in clinics focusing on fixing this major-problem..

         ..(the new stigma/’mark’ of the (often working) poor..is the gap-toothed smile..eh..? …)

         ..and in any serious program to fix what has ailed us for the last three decades..

         ..surely we could/should have removing that stigmata much much higher on that ‘to-do’ list..?

         ..eh..?

         ..and (i would emphasise)..starting with those most in need being the highest priority in any such program..

         ..phillip ure..
         • Rosie 6.1.1.1.1

           13 September 2013 at 12:51 pm

           Nice idea Phillip. I agree it may be do-able but I also wonder about the expectations placed upon a new government given the mess we find ourselves in. Mind you, if the goal of a new govt is for the citizens right to a healthy happy life, maybe it wouldn’t be a low priority. I have a vague memory of Jim Anderton saying we need universal dental care in NZ. I could likely be wrong. It was ages ago if he did say it.

           Maybe dentistry services could be part of a review of all health services, investigating what areas need attention and resources. I would add to the wish list suicide prevention, elder care and housing, increased funding for medical research, returning free accessible health services to all especially those who live in smaller towns and rural areas who have lost their services in recent years.I’d also add a free counselling service for people of all ages. Introducing free counselling, as well as helping to restore peace of mind may prevent further stress related illness such as heart problems, digestive problems, anxiety and depression to name a few, therefore reducing the need for more expensive and invasive treatment at a later date. There’s so much to do to expand the services within our public health sector, just IMO.

           Big ups to the amazing health professionals who do do an amazing job of looking after us with diminishing resources.
           • js 6.1.1.1.1.1

             13 September 2013 at 1:28 pm

             Jim Anderton campaigned actively on this for several elections and it has been Labour policy in the past. Not sure about the last election though. It would make a big difference to the dental health of many adults who currently can’t afford dental care.
       • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2

         13 September 2013 at 12:38 pm

         Socialised dental care would be at the bottom of the “TO DO” list.

         Nope, something that needs to be started immediately. It’d take time to get it up and running fully but it needs to be started now.
         • Greywarbler 6.1.1.2.1

           13 September 2013 at 12:42 pm

           Bad dental condition seems to be implicated in bad health for the individual overall. I don’t know the sources to refer to but I have heard or read this in a source that I considered reliable.
           • Rosie 6.1.1.2.1.1

             13 September 2013 at 1:09 pm

             I don’t have a link to the essence of your statement either Greywarbler but I have seen the topic discussed on a doco and have heard it directly from my dentist. A chronic infection in the tooth or jaw bone can suppress the immune system as well as create problems for the heart. I had a chronic infection in my jaw for a couple of years, knew something was wrong but couldn’t afford to attend to it. During that time I was diagnosed with glandular fever. The dentist said that it was most likely that my slow recovery was due to the untreated infected jaw.

             Might see if I can find a link to back that up…………….

             I agree with DTB that socialised dental care should be started immediately. However it ain’t gonna happen under this government and I have my reservations about the likelihood if it happening under a new government. I’d like to be proven wrong.
             • Rosie …

               13 September 2013 at 1:14 pm

               Fourth search in on Google, the link between over all health and poor dental health.

               http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/features/oral-health-the-mouth-body-connection
               • Greywarbler …

                 13 September 2013 at 6:40 pm

                 Thanks Rosie and Murray and Pasupial (Hope Masupial recovered in quick time – though the disappointment at having the wrong one done wouldn’t help.) It could be a good idea to have a little map with arrows and a statement of what has to be done pinned to your shoulder. Just make sure that the map/plan shows exactly where it is as your right and the dentist/surgeon’s right are on opposite sides.
           • Murray Olsen 6.1.1.2.1.2

             13 September 2013 at 2:42 pm

             I know the teeth are a major source of infections. Before any transplant or semi-major surgery, they like you to get your mouth looked at. This mainly seems to empty the wallet.
     • Pasupial 6.1.2

       13 September 2013 at 11:27 am

       Down in Dunedin we do have the option of the Dental School – which is cheaper, though you do have to wait a while (months when not in term-time) if it’s not agonisingly urgent. But then, last time Masupial went in for a wisdom tooth extraction they did end up ripping out the wrong (healthy) tooth…
       • Rosie 6.1.2.1

         13 September 2013 at 12:52 pm

         Great that you have access to that service Pasupial but er, sorry about the incorrect extraction………
         • Pasupial 6.1.2.1.1

           13 September 2013 at 1:55 pm

           Rosie, thanks for the concern. But the supervisor caught it before it had been out of her mouth for 10 minutes, and hopefully the re-insertion will take. If not, they said they’d do her a free implant (though we’re yet to get that in writing). She didn’t enjoy the root canal they had to give her though!
   • phillip ure 6.2

     13 September 2013 at 11:24 am

     that new logo brings to mind one tony ryall..(photoshop..!..plse..!..)

     ..phillip ure
   • Chooky 6.3

     13 September 2013 at 6:54 pm

     @ Rosie and others …re TEETH…….look up Xylitol ( very good preventative dentistry? ) on the internet…you can buy it from a health shop in expensive tablets or cheaply by the bag in sugar form from Whangarei…(Xylitol Products)…may help?…I use it last thing at night after cleaning teeth… ( by the quarter teaspoon).
7. quokka 7

   13 September 2013 at 10:13 am

   Now, down to business ..

   http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/business/energy-environment/in-a-natural-gas-glut-big-winners-and-losers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=3&.
8. quokka 8

   13 September 2013 at 10:15 am

   .. after the boom in natural gas
9. quokka 9

   13 September 2013 at 10:20 am

   http://grist.org/news/frackers-struggle-while-financiers-make-millions-sounds-familiar/

   http://shalebubble.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/SWS-report-FINAL.pdf
10. vto 10

    13 September 2013 at 10:57 am

    And this benefits who ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/9161499/US-investors-snap-up-large-Canterbury-farm

    High capital values benefit nobody but banks and people opting out of society.

    Useless
    • richard 10.1

      13 September 2013 at 11:26 am

      Business as usual for the Overseas Investment Office – http://www.linz.govt.nz/overseas-investment/decisions/
    • Draco T Bastard 10.2

      13 September 2013 at 12:40 pm

      We need to ban foreign ownership of anything in NZ as it really is turning us back into serfs.
11. Ennui 11

    13 September 2013 at 10:59 am

    Whilst “we” (NZ as represented by some corporate rich pricks and foreign corporate sponsors in a boat) happily jump and celebrate like marionettes on the medias strings for beating “them” (the USA as represented by some corporate rich pricks and foreign corporate sponsors in a boat)….bad things happen.

    During our distraction, as we reveled in faux nationalism our nations wealth got further plundered. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/9161499/US-investors-snap-up-large-Canterbury-farm

    In effect some NZ corporate farm interests featuring some now very rich people have sold off a chunk of NZ to foreign owners. The new owners will take title, and keep farming as a corporate farm, and send profits offshore. We slip into the latifundia system of ancient Rome, the hacienda system of Spanish America where slaves and serfs man the fields, and the profit goes to the centre of Empire. What a sad and easily hoodwinked little crowd we really are.
    • Pasupial 11.1

      13 September 2013 at 11:36 am

      Ennui

      Maori have had 173 years of that shit already. If you want to see your descendent’s future just look at the tangata whenua of Aotearoa today.
      • Greywarbler 11.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 1:06 pm

        NZ was built on land speculation since the first. The early settlers had to be restrained in their understandable hunger to get land and a living. My gt-gt-grandfather made a deal and paid Auckland Maori then had to go to court to get some back which he then paid for again. It was probably his fault as there was an attempt by the early colonial government to get some money to provide amenities and that was to come off a land tax which gt gt Gr circumvented. Many people landed around NZ with solemn promises of land ready and available in their ears and found they had been scammed.

        Now the disgraceful thing of Maori losing access to what they should have as their proprietary or control right on a lovely Whangarei spring. An irrigation company has been given maximum rights of 35 years to use this and regard it as their right to not have to apply every 10 years so they can build businesses on its use, any attempt to control it is taking Their Rights away. Maori would probably agree to limited use and to continue supplying some water to Whangarei city.

        Water controls should have been introduced decades ago, the central governments have not faced up to this difficult situation with its vocal demanding lobbyists, and the demand has just ballooned. It is very bad policy. We’re being sucked dry, the country will change beyond just having less obvious water in the rivers.
      • marty mars 11.1.2

        13 September 2013 at 3:07 pm

        True P – and these maps show the loss in Te Ika a Maui. But it only tells a bit of the story really because along with the loss of the land was the loss of so much else, such as economic ability, social organisation, cultural practices and so on. It would be interesting to extrapolate from today into the future and factor in all of those losses too – probably wouldn’t recognise the place after 173 years.

        http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/interactive/maori-land-1860-2000
      • Ennui 11.1.3

        13 September 2013 at 3:14 pm

        Pasupial, you make a strong point there. You may be very prescient in your comment that the tangata whenua experience will be echoed in that of all NZers.

        Perhaps when we become the blend that is simply NZers, and all of us are tangata whenua , we can all be serfs together. We will have allowed yet another version of colonisation to occur, with the same old imperial drivers of extracting wealth from the subservient subdued colonised locals. Or perhaps we could show the unity of common cause.
        • marty mars 11.1.3.1

          13 September 2013 at 3:25 pm

          “and all of us are tangata whenua”

          Do you mean we are all Māori?

          I thought this research was interesting and echos our whānau experience but we’re from the deep south so not really a surprise when you’ve lived it.

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9126070/Maori-and-Pakeha-united-through-love
      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.4

        13 September 2013 at 4:17 pm

        Exactly and yet people fail to see that simple reality.
    • thatguynz 11.2

      13 September 2013 at 11:52 am

      Completely agree. It is an absolute unadulterated disgrace.. Dollars to donuts that the media won’t make a big deal out of this as they can’t spin it into some bullshit anti-Asian xenophobia…
    • Draco T Bastard 11.3

      13 September 2013 at 12:44 pm

      +1
12. Enough is Enough 12

    13 September 2013 at 11:44 am

    Bokke by 17 tomorrow night

    Cunners in a canter
13. Draco T Bastard 13

    13 September 2013 at 12:43 pm

    This opinion piece by Putin is a rather interesting read. I especially liked this bit at the end:

    My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation.

    My bold.
    • joe90 13.1

      13 September 2013 at 1:47 pm

      Great PR.

      http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/ketchum-placed-controversial-putin-op-ed

      http://www.propublica.org/article/from-russia-with-pr-ketchum-cnbc
    • Colonial Viper 13.2

      13 September 2013 at 7:28 pm

      Don’t forget Putin’s last, brilliant sentiment in the op-ed. We are all equal in the eyes of God. Brilliant framing for the US political establishment.
      • Arfamo 13.2.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:32 pm

        The Daily Blog had a great way of putting it yesterday …

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/09/12/obama-vs-putin/
      • Chooky 13.2.2

        13 September 2013 at 8:01 pm

        @ CV…..and the Jewish
    • Ad 13.3

      13 September 2013 at 10:42 pm

      Written while standing with one boot on Obama’s throat.
      Putin the great internationalist, with global moral sentiment on his side.

      Pity Obama is paying for the sins of both Bush presidencies.

      Then again, someone had to.
14. Greywarbler 14

    13 September 2013 at 12:47 pm

    dobro pozhalovat (welcome) to the new arrivals in Christchurch, the godwits all the way from Russia. Aren’t they amazing.

    Hundreds of Godwits return about this time every year after a journey of 11,000km.
    One way I think they fly all the way without a stop. But I can’t believe I have got that right actually.
    Godwit chatter – It’s nice to go to the South Pacific for their summer isn’t it? Sqawk in Russian was the reply.

    The Russian connection of following DTB’s comment is entirely coincidental – strange that.
    • alwyn 14.1

      13 September 2013 at 1:38 pm

      It is apparently the case. They go north in stages from New Zealand to Alaska, stopping to feed along the way in New Guinea, Korea and Russia. They obviusly don’t like Korea or Russia very much and go on to greet Sarah Palin in Alaska (there – isn’t she a horrible memory?)
      Their return is apparently a direct flight from Alaska to New Zealand, the longest non-stop flight of any bird.
      There is a map of the route at
      http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/map/9184/bar-tailed-godwits-migration-route
      Amazing isn’t it?
      • marty mars 14.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 4:01 pm

        Yes they are amazing birds – the journey down from the yukon takes 8 – whatever days, no stopping, no sleeping, no eating, if blown off course they come back to the same sky trail. Kuaka are beautiful too especially just before they go, when they often have a brick red breeding plumage on their breast. I’m pleased we don’t eat them anymore – they are pretty fat just before they fly off and they mainly eat worms of various sorts in our wonderful wetland areas.
15. karol 15

    13 September 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Is there a reason why today’s Open mike stresses that today is Friday 13th?

    Is Key’s government planning something extra bad, or is it actually a sign of good fortune for all?
    • David H 15.1

      13 September 2013 at 7:25 pm

      Why Karol surely you know it’s Black Friday.
      • miravox 15.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 10:13 pm

        I like having an excuse to make a day a little different. Well worth the little change-up pic to get a link to some very good music too!
16. red rattler 16

    13 September 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Over on the “Bryce Edwards need to find a clue” post Bryce Edwards is taken to task for misrepresenting the partisanship of TS blogger comrade X.

    The comments are closed so I’m posting this on Open Mike.

    Edward’s attack on TS blogger comrade X is really just to fuel his very superficial view of the internal dissension inside Labour. He reduces it to personalities and media bullshit.

    For a Marxist Edwards skates over the surface lightly, more than once…

    Here is a real Marxist analysis.

    There is a contradiction inside Labour between working class membership and its bureaucratic leadership promoting a neo-liberal lite capitalist program. The right fears the left taking control back from the ABC hacks, and their champion comrade Y, and dumping their centrist program. It is this contradiction that has surfaced for the first time since 1989 when the left went into the wilderness behind comrade A. The media didnt make it up they just smelled it out.

    With its nose firmly sunk in the mire of blood and muck the media fears that if the left wins, behind its champion comrade Z, the working class will once again have some honest faithful representation in parliament, and that the corporate media acting like mogul muppets will no longer be able to profit from pushing its crap down our unwilling throats.

    Whether comrade Z wins or not the class contradiction in the Labour Party is out in the open for all to see. Let’s not mistake this for personality clashes and media promotions. The global crisis and NZ’s slide to bankruptcy has forced all the old shit to the surface.

    There you go, a couple of hundred words is enough, and no links to all the left-right-centre unintelligentsia necessary. One doesnt even have to mention personalities.
    • BLiP 16.1

      13 September 2013 at 7:11 pm

      ‘

      Bravo!
      • Alanz 16.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:16 pm

        Well done.
        You can replace that bloke for that job at university.
      • miravox 16.1.2

        13 September 2013 at 10:14 pm

        +1
    • just saying 16.2

      13 September 2013 at 10:47 pm

      Still annoyed. It’s a pity comments have been closed on the Edwards post, because his Herald article is still claiming that the Standard is now behind Cunliffe*.
      There is always a diversity of opinion here, but I challenge Edwards to find a single day since Goff’s departure when the majority of bloggers and commenters here didn’t favour Cunliffe. It’s got something to do with this being a left wing site. If he can’t find a single day that supports his hypothesis he should withdraw and apologise.

      But it suits his purpose to claim that we are suddenly changing our collective tune. He has repeatedly misrepresented us to suit his pet theories.

      I doubt he will read this. Anyone who reads his column knows that when he comes here it is to just to quickly skim and cherry-pick “evidence” that fit with his beliefs. If he actually read the Standard he would be embarassed by his regular public errors, and (surely) as an academic feel obliged to write the truth.

      *Still not wild about Cunliffe, myself. Just the best of a bad bunch as far as I’m concerned, and the only one of the three who might, possibly, actually have some leftish leanings. Time will tell.

      I hope R0b got an apology for that defamatory rave that was removed.
    • Ad 16.3

      13 September 2013 at 10:49 pm

      Don’t confuse Cunliffe’s fearless analysis and will to intervene with actual Labour policy. That set of contradictions has yet to play out. There Will Be Blood, as of Sunday 2pm.

      No matter how conciliatory the new leader (whomever) appears to be.

      Nor presume there’s a black-wite distinction between a so-called proletariat membership and comprador-bourgeiosie caucus. Too sad.

      And if you think there’s another glorious crisis that will revive the Deep Left from its torpor, well, exhibit A: 9/11. Exhibit B: GFC. Exhibit C: Arab Spring.

      Catastrophic non-revivals for progressive memes.

      Give it another go pal you’re not even close.
      • red rattler 16.3.1

        14 September 2013 at 1:27 pm

        @Ad

        “Don’t confuse Cunliffe’s fearless analysis and will to intervene with actual Labour policy. That set of contradictions has yet to play out. There Will Be Blood, as of Sunday 2pm.”
        “No matter how conciliatory the new leader (whomever) appears to be.”

        As I said comrade Z is propelled by much stronger forces than courage, will or diplomacy. Although these personal attributes are necessary in a leader.

        “Nor presume there’s a black-wite distinction between a so-called proletariat membership and comprador-bourgeiosie caucus. Too sad.”

        As a dialectician I abhor “black-wite distinctions”. I call the proletariat by its correct name, consisting of those who live by selling their labour power to a capitalist employer. That is the big majority of NZers.

        I do not distinguish the proletariat from the “comprador-bourgeiosie caucus”. For one thing the caucus majority called ABC is not bourgeois but bureaucratic. These are not the same. The Labour Party is the party of the labour bureaucracy which is inside the proletariat not part of the bourgeoisie. It mediates between these two classes since it shares the bourgeois ideology that classes are historical aberrations and can be legislated out of existence. Historically the Labour Party sought to reconcile the proletariat with working farmers in a political compact with NZ manufacturers protected within an economic nationalist polity. This was its rationale against the National Party and its forerunners that stood for the dominant bourgeois fraction of bankers, importers and farmers.

        “And if you think there’s another glorious crisis that will revive the Deep Left from its torpor, well, exhibit A: 9/11. Exhibit B: GFC. Exhibit C: Arab Spring.” “Catastrophic non-revivals for progressive memes.”

        Here I think you are expressing you own deep pessimism about the prospects of the proletariat organising to take on and defeat capitalism.
        You see 9/11, GFC and the Arab Spring as “catastrophic non-revivals” of the “deep left”.

        Dialectically speaking these are not revivals of the ‘deep left’, if you mean the revolutionary left, but they are revivals of the wider left, meaning the proletariat in general, resisting all the repressive forces of capitalism. The forms of resistance will change as the proletariat develops its consciousness and capacity.

        In the context of a global crisis of capitalism kicked off by the GCF they signify the failure of capitalism to regenerate itself by means of neo-liberalism, by victory over “communism”, by wars and occupations of oppressed countries, and by almost total surveillance and social repression against the masses resisting austerity.

        Far from being “catastrophic” for the left, these are expressions of the “catastrophe” of capitalism entering its terminal destructive phase in which it will destroy humanity and nature unless stopped.

        As we say in the business, for the proletariat to live capitalism must die!
        In Aotearoa, once the proletariat wakes up to a Labour Party that responds to its needs, then it is at least on its feet and prepared for battle.

        But that is only the start of the battle. Let’s see which side you are on.
17. Pascal's bookie 17

    13 September 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Fresh poll:

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5167-new-zealand-voting-intention-september-13-2013-201309130404
18. mickysavage 18

    13 September 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Latest Roy Morgan is out.

    The Greens are up to 15% and Labour is up to 47.5%.

    National is down to 41%.

    Good trend …

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5167-new-zealand-voting-intention-september-13-2013-201309130404

    EDIT: Pb bet me by a whisker!
    • McFlock 18.1

      13 September 2013 at 5:30 pm

      The Greens are up to 15% and Labour is up to 47.5%.

      lol

      Labour’s up to 32, LABGRN is 47.5%
      getting me hopes up, there…
      • mickysavage 18.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:02 pm

        Oops I was obviously thinking of a post leadership contest poll …

        
      • Chooky 18.1.2

        13 September 2013 at 10:39 pm

        @ McFlock….give it time with Cunliffe as Leader….and the people get used to a new Labour Party
        • McFlock 18.1.2.1

          13 September 2013 at 10:51 pm

          A labgrn vote approaching 60-65%?

          It would be great, but I think you’ve been drinking the kool-aid. No MMP coalition has broken the mid-fifties, as far as I can see.
          • Chooky 18.1.2.1.1

            14 September 2013 at 10:02 am

            @ McFlock….kool-aid never!….too much wine a possibility

            I am an optimist about Labour with Cunliffe leading!……I expect great things with Labour now and the Greens in partnership ….and Winnie as Minister of Foreign Affairs….brilliant!!!!!!

            ….(stone cold sober)
            • McFlock 18.1.2.1.1.1

              14 September 2013 at 6:10 pm

              lol Winnie as MoF again. That was pretty embarrassing the first time.
    • Pascal's bookie 18.2

      13 September 2013 at 5:32 pm

      Well, you will piss around with commentary.
      • mickysavage 18.2.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:15 pm

        And I stuffed it up
    • weka 18.3

      13 September 2013 at 6:19 pm

      “If a National Election were held now the latest NZ Roy Morgan Poll shows that a Labour/ Greens alliance would win easily.”

      I haven’t done the MMP maths, but it looks like NACT/NZF/MP have a higher percentage than L/GP/Mana
      • Colonial Viper 18.3.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:23 pm

        Fact of the matter is Labour has to be prepared to deal with NZ1 and MP.
        • weka 18.3.1.1

          13 September 2013 at 9:48 pm

          Unless we get really lucky and NZF doesn’t make 5%
          • Colonial Viper 18.3.1.1.1

            13 September 2013 at 9:55 pm

            Personally, I think that Parliament is better off with Winston in it. Hopefully as a sitting party come 2014, they will also get a much better class of list candidate this time around. They need it.
            • Chooky 18.3.1.1.1.1

              13 September 2013 at 10:32 pm

              CV+1 to Winston, he is a fighter …..and getting a “much better class of list candidate this time around”
            • weka 18.3.1.1.1.2

              13 September 2013 at 11:34 pm

              How do you see a govt being formed if NZF get over the threshhold?
              • Colonial Viper …

                13 September 2013 at 11:56 pm

                The NATs have no vision or purpose left. And Winston will be legacy shopping. There is a strong chance that the 2014-2017 term will be his last or second to last (he’ll be 72 at its conclusion).

                Labour/Greens can get Peters excited about projects and ideas that National would never entertain.
                • weka …

                  14 September 2013 at 12:16 am

                  It’s probably the difference between you being a Labour voter and me being a GP voter, but given how Labour have treated the GP in the past when Peters is in the picture, I don’t see him as the asset to NZ politics that you do. I also don’t trust him, at all. I don’t really trust Labour either in this regard, so can understand why the GP are going after two ticks wherever they can.

                  “Labour/Greens can get Peters excited about projects and ideas that National would never entertain.”

                  I’m not sure that answers my question exactly.
                  • Chooky …

                    14 September 2013 at 1:59 pm

                    @ Weka….if he gets in he could be lured with Minister of Foreign Affairs?…He would probably ignore the Greens if given that post.?….and vice versa
                    • weka …

                      14 September 2013 at 7:08 pm

                      I guess. Still don’t trust him (and ignoring a coaltion partner is not GP style). Or Labour until the deal is done.
19. ak 19

    13 September 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Good morgan good morgan good morgan New Zealand, and a happy friday the thirteenth to all our wee tory brothers and sisters.

    Today in history we recall that the last time Labour couldn’t be ignored by the media – the Goffy blip – the same thing happened. And if only an astute Standard commenter who promoted a joint leadership/primary had been heeded, the same effect may have been enjoyed for the past twelve months and more.

    And let’s recall too that old “left-wing intellectual’ darling of the kiwibog sump, Brycie Edwards: the young man who brought us “the EPMU runs the standard” and went on to become a herald scribe: currently running saturation coverage and repetition of today’s classic, “Division Left” with the customary few fibby wibbies thrown in.

    But enough from your old auntie with such a warm red glow shining up our back passages this glorious spring day, let’s recall and bask in that other historic lesson that we must all never forget and learn from, and play that old favourite from 1999, “When Helen hugged Jim”.

    ……..sorry listeners….just when you’re ready David
    • karol 19.1

      13 September 2013 at 6:08 pm

      And I see slippery is worried about the coverage the Labour leadership contest has been getting, so he’s aiming to be in the House Tuesday, so he can slip his hand onto the new Labour leader’s cup when it is awarded – and get a 3-way handshake photo op?
      • Pascal's bookie 19.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 6:24 pm

        Nah he’s lying about that as well. his schedule was published before Shearer stepped down and it always had him leaving after QT.

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9154622/Today-in-politics-Thursday-September-12

        Mr Key announced plans to travel to Britain at his press conference on Monday, saying he had ensured his travel schedule would allow him to face the new Labour leader at their first parliamentary question time next Tuesday.

        We would point out that his schedule, circulated to journalists on August 12, showed he wasn’t leaving New Zealand till late Tuesday, well after question time ends. Former Labour leader David Shearer didn’t resign until August 22.
        
        • vto 19.1.1.1

          13 September 2013 at 6:26 pm

          Really.

          He just cannot help himself.

          John Key is simply an untrustworthy compulsive liar.

          liar
          liar
          liar
        • BLiP 19.1.1.2

          13 September 2013 at 7:16 pm

          ‘

          Oooh . . . missed that one. Link to travel plan prior to Shearer’s resignation, plox.
          • Pascal's bookie 19.1.1.2.1

            13 September 2013 at 7:25 pm

            I dunno “circulated to journalists on August 12”.

            is there a diary on line somewhere?
          • Draco T Bastard 19.1.1.2.2

            14 September 2013 at 5:57 am

            https://fyi.org.nz/

            Make an OIA request.
    • Greywarbler 19.2

      13 September 2013 at 6:53 pm

      @ak
      Are you channelling Aunt Daisy or Dame Edna or both? Thinking about Aunt Daisy, Labour could develop a recipe for Labour Party biscuits that could be sold from door to door, along with printed information around the biscuits of Labour’s hopes and visions for the everybodies. So what about it – has Aunt Daisy got something special, with a red tinge (raspberry jelly crystals) in her recipe book?
      • Greywarbler 19.2.1

        13 September 2013 at 9:47 pm

        On second thoughts the food n.z.s in local government would probably find a way to stop selling biscuits. They seem to have tightened up on the way that ordinary folks can make money for themselves or raise it for others, on the basis of local by-laws the prissy stinkers. It used to be recognised that few bugs would be hiding out in biscuits, cakes, pickles etc. I think that the commercial bakers want a monopoly. They don’t want people to have any way of helping themselves using good old hard work and personal initiative.
20. Tim 20

    13 September 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Oh gawsh! (Tree Newz tunoit). Willie is traumatised and emotional about the plight of Rhinos in some place called A freak Ah!
    Apprently they should have learned (had learnings) about how at risk they are – perhaps a talking point for a shyster trying to impress a Liz.

    Fair enough! It’s just a shame that the same concern doesn’t the worry the Willie – nor a shyster that’s about to lead an enterage soon to try and impress Her (in doors) Mejistee.

    They’ll soon be wondering why another Republic emerges from a Britissss Empire.
    Bloody Hell, gawsh and rhubarb – how utterly stupid it was give those bloody slanty-eyed chinks back the Korng Horng what!
    And don’t get me started on those damnable Ghanaians!
    Why for Gawds sake! they’ve even got cheaper cellphone charges than out own bloody savages
21. karol 21

    13 September 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Josie Pagani: Why I voted Shane Jones……

    Much rapture about Jones connecting with Labours true base.

    David Cunliffe’s version of unity has been to double down on the policies that have been unsuccessful in the last two elections in the hope that a more assertive defense of them will convince more people to support Labour.

    What Jones is doing is more interesting. He says if Labour is unpopular it’s because we are not being true to our values. Voters actually like our values and our principle that anyone no matter what family you’re born into, should have access to the same opportunities. Labour is only unpopular when it takes entrenched positions that are unfaithful to its core principles.
    […]
    Cunliffe buckled under the pressure and fired her, indicating that he thinks unity is achieved by silence rather than argument

    Jones called Claire Curren out.

    So no mention of Jones own heterosexism or misogyny then?

    Go Josie! Good to see she knows how to spell Labour MPs’ names too.
    • Ad 21.1

      13 September 2013 at 8:33 pm

      Josie’s second-round gift to Cunliffe’s cumulative total. I like thick voters.
    • QoT 21.2

      13 September 2013 at 9:29 pm

      The fact Josie Pagani apparently has no fucking idea what policies Labour put forward in the previous two elections, no why Labour lost, are just more straws on top of the poor overburdened camel named “reasons no one should give a fuck what Josie Pagani thinks about anything”.
      • Colonial Viper 21.2.1

        13 September 2013 at 11:33 pm

        Apparently, according to the MSM, she is an excellent, representative, left-wing commentator.
22. Anne 22

    13 September 2013 at 7:30 pm

    So no mention of Jones own heterosexism or misogyny then?

    Add to that his obscene inferences. She doesn’t regard that as distasteful in a leader? Can you imagine her horror if it had been Cunliffe who had exhibited such traits.

    From the link:

    Cunliffe buckled under the pressure and fired her, indicating that he thinks unity is achieved by silence rather than argument.

    She has exposed her own political illiteracy by interpreting Cunliffe’s action in such a way.

    And finally we have this:

    if Labour is to appeal to middle New Zealand, then it can’t say ‘we want your vote but not your values.’

    To all those commentators who sneered at Shane’s style, who do they think the Labour party represents? If the party is not appealing to those in the RSAs, marae, pubs and to those browsing in Mitre 10 at the weekend, it isn’t a Labour party.

    Well that reads like a contradiction in terms. She’s talking gobbledygook.
    • karol 22.1

      13 September 2013 at 7:35 pm

      Definitely conflicting values – a muddle. On the one hand she defends Jenny Michie as not being homophobic, therefore should still be on Cunliffe’s team. Then she talks about Jones’ values as solid Labour ones.

      BTW, I have been known to visit RSAs, pubs, marae and Mitre 10. What does that make me?
      • Arfamo 22.1.1

        13 September 2013 at 7:57 pm

        Very cosmopolitan?
      • QoT 22.1.2

        13 September 2013 at 9:32 pm

        I fucking love going to Mitre 10.
        • Ad 22.1.2.1

          13 September 2013 at 10:50 pm

          Bunnings creams them for service and price.
      • miravox 22.1.3

        13 September 2013 at 10:27 pm

        “BTW, I have been known to visit RSAs, pubs, marae and Mitre 10. What does that make me?”

        An outlier? Confusing for her, Karol. She can only read people as market segments.

        Deeply conflicted as well, in her statement “he thinks unity is achieved by silence rather than argument”… Rightly or wrongly, this is exactly what the ABCers demanded not too many months ago.

        I won’t read anything she writes on the otherwise awesome pundit.
        • emergency mike 22.1.3.1

          13 September 2013 at 11:12 pm

          Oh my Gizzle why has David Cunliffe failed to win over the Mitre 10 crowd. Paddy Gower get down there quick and poll the hell out of then!
23. Sable 23

    13 September 2013 at 8:15 pm

    This article is interesting not so much for the poll results but the telling comments from disgruntled red necks.

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/18915617/labour-greens-would-win-election-poll/
24. Anne 24

    13 September 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Jesus those teeth are awful.
25. North 25

    13 September 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Sable…….you mean the Unctuous Fuck’s down to 41% ? Interesting.

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