Public holidays

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1. Andrew 1

   30 April 2009 at 10:40 am

   you fu**en prick! dont you dare disgrace and belittle the sacrifice my great grandfather made for his queen and country!
   • Pascal's bookie 1.1

     30 April 2009 at 11:02 am

     Did you just call George the 5th a queen?
     • Andrew 1.1.1

       30 April 2009 at 11:08 am

       It’s a saying, it makes no difference in the contrxt
       • felix 1.1.1.1

         30 April 2009 at 12:32 pm

         “King and Country” is a saying too. Just saying.
     • Rich 1.1.2

       30 April 2009 at 1:19 pm

       Yeah, coz he wasn’t. Edward VIII on the other hand..
   • Eddie 1.2

     30 April 2009 at 12:01 pm

     See, two can play at that game “How dare you belittle the dishonour my great grandfather was treated with by pretending he died for a great and noble cause when, in fact, he was sent to die by incompetent generals to serve the interests of imperial overlords.”

     I’m in no way belittling the deaths of men who did not deserve to die – Key did that when he said they fought for our “living standards”. Surely you don’t agree with him?
2. BLiP 2

   30 April 2009 at 10:52 am

   You miss the point Andrew. The disgrace is that John Key said we should be grateful for such sacrifice because it improved our living standards . Not only is that impossible to prove, it also monetises the slaughter of millions. Perhaps the PM meant to say “quality of life” but, really, your response is best addressed to the Goober himself.

   It sure would be good if we could have the Monday off to commemorate – but that’s probably too expensive.
   • Andrew 2.1

     30 April 2009 at 11:06 am

     If you read the article in it’s entirity I have no problem with what key said. I stand by my comments to ‘Eddie’ and would say them again to his or her face! Those soldiers fought and died for our freedom, and the freedom of jerk off’s like eddie to say the things they do without fear of reprisal.
     • lprent 2.1.1

       30 April 2009 at 11:12 am

       If I’d been sent off to war during my period of service or while on the reserves, then I’d want to have done it for a far better reason than “living standards”. A politician sending me to die for living standards is an idiot – first question would be whose.

       Using the logic implicit in that you could invade a country for no other reason than access to oil….. ummmmmm…
       • Andrew 2.1.1.1

         30 April 2009 at 11:16 am

         To be fair to jk, that was only one sentence out of the article. He said much more than just “living standards”
         • lprent 2.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2009 at 12:57 pm

           I’d agree that the rest of the speech was pretty standard for a ANZAC speech. However it was a set piece speech. He wasn’t doing it off-the-cuff. You’d expect that ‘living standards’ was deliberately put in.

           I tell you what I’d be mightily pissed off if someone had put me in harms way for living standards. Fighting for freedom, liberty, and many other things. But fighting an off-shore war for living standards – there is no way.

           It is simpler to fight that war here through democratic processes and vehicles like this blog.
     • Quoth the Raven 2.1.2

       30 April 2009 at 11:17 am

       My great grandfather fought in WW1 as well, but I don’t think he thought for my freedom. Please explain how they were fighting for our freedom in WW1? I would honestly like to hear your explanation. Was it the freedom to be under the thumb of the British empire instead of the Kaiser’s? In my mind the people in need of reproach were those that put my great grandfather in the postition of becoming a multiple murderer, the politicians.
       • Andrew 2.1.2.1

         30 April 2009 at 11:25 am

         Fair enough, at least yours is a balanced argument. It’s 12:30 am here in London so I will grace you with a reply tomorrow after sleep.
       • Andrew 2.1.2.2

         30 April 2009 at 9:07 pm

         I don’t believe for one second that the war, or any war for that matter was a good thing. The waste of human life was disgusting. But this was a war of another age when the NZ answered the call of the British Empire, to which we owe the birth of our country as we know it.

         Key said ‘Living Standards’, which could have easily been standards of living in which he is 100% correct. The freedom i speek of is the freedom of people like you and me being able to say what every we god damn want to without fear of persicution. That was not what the ANZAC’s were specifically fighting for (a trade route), but rather the overall effort of ww1 and for that matter ww2, of which for ww1 anyway we played a very small if not insignificant part.

         I had no problem what so ever with the majority of the post, it started of rather well, but then right at the end Eddie had to ruin it with another spiteful dig at JK for political gain. I haven’t seen the RSA up in arms about his speech (maybe i just havent read the howls of outrage yet).

         I read this the other day and i think it sums it up quite well:

         “It does remind us of a very important episode in New Zealand’s history. Great suffering was caused to a small country by the loss of so many of its young men. But the Gallipoli campaign showcased attitudes and attributes – bravery, tenacity, practicality, ingenuity, loyalty to King and comrades – that helped New Zealand define itself as a nation, even as it fought unquestioningly on the other side of the world in the name of the British Empire. ”

         “After Gallipoli, New Zealand had a greater confidence in its distinct identity, and a greater pride in the international contribution it could make. And the mutual respect earned during the fighting formed the basis of the close ties with Australia that continue today.”
         • BLiP 2.1.2.2.1

           30 April 2009 at 11:29 pm

           Check that link I gave you back up a few screens – it gives you the definition of standard of living; its a well accepted term for the level of material comfort a nation has. Freedom has nothing to do with the equation – its about money.
     • Con 2.1.3

       30 April 2009 at 11:24 am

       Those soldiers fought and died for our freedom

       No, Eddie is right. Those brave ANZACs fought and died, in vain, for the greater glory of the British Empire. May they rest in peace.

       It’s no disgrace to their memory to honestly face up to the facts of history.
     • felix 2.1.4

       30 April 2009 at 12:27 pm

       Freedom, Andrew? You watch too much tv. If you’re going to bandy your (and the rest of our) great-grandfathers’ memory around then at least have the courtesy to read a book or two and find out why they did what they did.
3. Whacky Lefty 3

   30 April 2009 at 10:59 am

   This is really about the hearts of NZ. So let it stand as it does.
   As a past NZDF per I’m not into the dawn parade, I have always hated parades, all I wanted to do was sleep. For me it is more important to sit and chat with those who served.

   The tomb of the unknown soldier is a great skate park but what of the Agent Orange , J Force & Nuke Test vets?

   The dead look after their own, our first responsibility is to the living.
   • lprent 3.1

     30 April 2009 at 11:14 am

     I avoid the dawn parade, but I do go to the ones at a more reasonable hour. Parades always did seem like a bit of a waste of time – relic of the 19th century IMO.
4. Bill 4

   30 April 2009 at 11:03 am

   Since JK is so enamoured by the idea of sacrifices being made in order to improve living standards/ conditions…

   “They were everyday people who rose to the heights of sacrifice and in doing so preserved the living standards of us all for generations to come. They fought for each and every one of us.”….

   then are we to expect an announcement designating May 1 as a recognised public holiday?

   Just asking.
5. Jasper 5

   30 April 2009 at 11:23 am

   “In 2011, Easter Sunday and ANZAC day will be the same day”

   Easter Sunday is normally on the same day, irrespective of year 😀

   Or did you mean to say “In 2011, Easter Sunday and ANZAC day both fall on the same day”
6. Graeme 6

   30 April 2009 at 11:25 am

   In 2011, Easter Sunday and ANZAC day will be the same day. Dumb. If Anzac Day coincides with another public holiday, the day off should be moved to the next free day.

   Since Easter Sunday isn’t a public holiday, it wouldn’t move at all. Unions have been pushing for Easter Sunday to be made a public holiday, in 2011 they’ll get their wish.

   On the more general point, I think that ANZAC day is different from the other holidays. A major point of Waitangi Day, etc. is the day off, it’s not what ANZAC day is about.

   “They were everyday people who rose to the heights of sacrifice and in doing so preserved the living standards of us all for generations to come. They fought for each and every one of us.’ .

   then are we to expect an announcement designating May 1 as a recognised public holiday?

   No. But I understand a Labour Day is in the offing 🙂
   • Daveski 6.1

     30 April 2009 at 11:34 am

     At the risk of introducing facts into one of my posts, it would appear than next year Waitangi Day is on a Saturday and Anzac Day on a Sunday.

     That means our productivity rates for 2010 should go through the roof 🙂
7. Notonmywatch 7

   30 April 2009 at 11:42 am

   A good friend of mine posted this on his facebook page Friday night:

   ‘Fuck all you Civilian pricks who think Monday should be a day off coz of ANZAC day falling on a saturday, you all need to wake up and realise its not supposed to be a day off but a day of remembrance. If anyone disagrees be prepared to back your argument up with fists!!’

   He is of course a serving member of the army.

   I like his style and prose, don’t you Eddie?
8. Peter Johns - bigoted troll in jerkoff mode 8

   30 April 2009 at 11:52 am

   Easter Monday 2011 is also Anzac Day. Not Easter Sunday. Waitangi is Sat/Sun for the next 2 years as well. Waitangi 2009 is the last Wai/ANZAC holiday until 2012!!!!!! But since we have 4 weeks annual leave now it cushions the blow a bit. OK, thank you Labour.

   I agree with the contect of the post Eddie, I reckon we should get a day off as well, I have always maintained this view.

   But of course as this site always does, Key is brought into this, he is a bad man, a very bad man. Why does he always have to be brought into this?

   But let’s not mention Helen Clark spitting at our troops that went to Veit Nam shall we.
   • Eddie 8.1

     30 April 2009 at 12:05 pm

     um, because he said that our soldiers died for our standards of living?
     • Peter Johns - bigoted troll in jerkoff mode 8.1.1

       30 April 2009 at 12:43 pm

       Define standard of living then? You look at this comment as he is referring to money, I don’t see it that way. SOL could also mean:
       – freedom
       – services we have etc.

       You are drawing a long bow here, mountain out of molehill stuff.
       • lprent 8.1.1.1

         30 April 2009 at 12:52 pm

         The usual statement is ‘freedom’.

         Tells you a lot about someone who thinks that soldiers fought for ‘living standards’. You have to wonder exactly what wars this guy would try and send our troops to.

         Remember this was a set piece, it wasn’t off the cuff. There is no excuse for this phrasing. I don’t think that you’ll find many military who are willing to put their butts on the line for ‘living standards’

         You are being just sprouting bullshit (and probably never served)
         • The Baron 8.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2009 at 3:23 pm

           Ohh is that the old “can’t talk about it unless you were there” mentality at the end there, Prent? What has that got to do with anything?

           I’m sure a weekend warrior like you is gonna be right on the money in terms of knowing what that was like. Oh yes, those horrible weekends on the ropes courses were probably just like WW1.

           What a load of tosh. In this regard, you’re talking as much tripe as he is. Don’t try claim some sort of high ground due to your token “service” and try to compare it against guys that really did “serve”.
           • lprent 8.1.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2009 at 3:56 pm

             Sure it was token – no call up. But I did it. Generally people who have been in combat don’t speak of it publically. My experience has been that the people that are the most bellicose usually haven’t done squat. I get quite impatient with them.

             The loudest in any area are often from the ones who know the least. For instance industrial relations, medical issues, helping with bottom of the cliff tasks, DPB, welfare, climate change, etc etc.

             I fully intend to continue challenging when I see people waffling about things that they know bugger all about. Typically they see things in black and white because they’ve never managed to see grey-scale.
     • The Baron 8.1.2

       30 April 2009 at 12:48 pm

       Molehill = mountain, Eddie. The man is allowed his perspective on things. Peter is right, I am sure you could read anything you want to in order to score a point, I mean, you think the man is the antichrist.

       Pity that the rest of the public doesn’t. This sorta approach reminds me of the boy who cried wolf – people stop listening. Wait for some real issues, score some real points, and maybe Labour’s stint in opposition won’t be nine years long as well.
   • lprent 8.2

     30 April 2009 at 12:38 pm

     You can of course provide a link for
     Helen Clark spitting at our troops that went to Veit Nam

     Or should we treat this as being one of those bullshit right wing myths made up by some wingnut.

     I’ll give you a hint – it didn’t happen. Helen disagreed with the policy of the government at the time. For that matter so did I, and I still disagreed with it when I was in the army a few years later. For that matter I disagreed with Brash, English and Key who thought we should send our troops to Iraq.
     • ben 8.2.1

       30 April 2009 at 12:53 pm

       Or should we treat this as being one of those bullshit right wing myths made up by some wingnut.

       Watch your language please, or you’ll be banned and censored.
9. Tigger 9

   30 April 2009 at 12:02 pm

   Yep, it was part of the speech – the end part – not just a throwaway line – he concludes with this (it is in the second to last sentence). No surprises of course, we all know JK and the NACTs are all about the $. Sacrifice now becomes about the bottom line. Sad.
   • The Baron 9.1

     30 April 2009 at 12:48 pm

     I hear he eats babies – whoa!
     • ripp0 9.1.1

       30 April 2009 at 5:40 pm

       sad, so sad Baron … this perpetuation of literary ignorance re ‘babies’ and ‘eating’ thereof… never expected this from you.. so, as Don-the-Pleasance said of Werner Graf in TGE — dear oh dear!
10. jarbury 10

    30 April 2009 at 12:28 pm

    Wow that’s really depressing that our public holidays get rooted for the next couple of years. Can’t all public holidays be the same with regards to this kind of thing? It’s so damn confusing.
11. ben 11

    30 April 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Talk about trivialising your own post. A post that ends with a few words about our fallen soldiers but which opens on getting an extra day off when holidays fall on Saturday.

    We commemorate their sacrifice not for the glory of the cause but because their lives and the lives of the men they fought were wasted so disgracefully by their imperial rulers.

    Speak for yourself, thanks. That isn’t why I and many others commemorate Anzac Day. You were a better read when you were whinging about not getting a bit of extra time off work.
12. uroskin 12

    30 April 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Can’t we just privatise the public holidays so everybody gets to choose 11 days of the year that are of significance for them and get the day off, e.g. in my case that would be: my birthday, birthday of significant others, loss of virginity day, Eurovision Song Contest day, Mardi Gras or Pride Day (or even week) etc

    It would avoid traffic jams, rip-off cafe prices and brats in holiday resorts
    • Rich 12.1

      30 April 2009 at 1:35 pm

      Yup, I agree,
    • The Baron 12.2

      30 April 2009 at 2:17 pm

      Hahaha that does have a strange appeal to it…

      I can hear the unionists screaming with outrage though – families need guaranteed days to be together, capitalism can do without a morning, etc etc repeat everything said at Easter.

      I’m sure Tane can comment?
      • Tane 12.2.1

        30 April 2009 at 2:37 pm

        The issue I can see with that is that without a guaranteed day off co-ordinating holidays between family members can be a problem. It’d also be hard to organise public events where you can’t get everyone together at the same time.

        It’s easy when you’re in a comfy middle class job to argue against guaranteed public holidays, but when dad’s doing factory shift work, mum’s a caregiver and the kids are working at Burger King you start to see how important it is to know that you’re going to get your public holidays off.

        It’s a strange kind of freedom you’re arguing for when it means families can no longer spend Easter or Christmas together because they’ve been told they have to work.
        • Rich 12.2.1.1

          30 April 2009 at 2:55 pm

          People should also be allowed to take their leave on days of their choosing. (That includes working Christmas if they so wish).
13. The Voice of Reason 13

    30 April 2009 at 12:56 pm

    Great post, Eddie and Andrew’s reply made me laugh, at least until I realised he was serious.

    I think we should scrap Anzac day and replace it with a day to commemorate and remember those killed in war. Most of them are, of course, civilians, so can I suggest we call it Collateral Damage Day.

    I don’t mean any disrespect to those in our armed services, but at least they get armour, PPE and access to medical assistance ASAP when they’re living out their macho fantasies and it goes wrong for them.
14. vto 14

    30 April 2009 at 12:56 pm

    How surprising, a left wing blog calling for more holidays …
15. Rich 15

    30 April 2009 at 1:22 pm

    I’m quite pleased that John Key’s come around to the idea, formerly only espoused on the true left, that wars are fought to boost capitalism.

    Perhaps we won’t get any shite about fighting in Afghanistan being to liberate Afghan women from the Taliban. He can just announce it’s for oil routes, gas pipelines and to protect cheap Indian call centres.
16. Rich 16

    30 April 2009 at 1:32 pm

    In 2011, Easter Sunday and ANZAC day will be the same day.

    [ whimsy ]
    Hey, we can remembrance the Roman soldiers that did the nailing. Some of us must be descended from them (Actually, quite possibly everyone with European descent, amazingly).

    So we could do some sort of nailing ceremony wearing Roman uniforms.

    Incidentally, if you believe in the Albigensian Heresy, we’re all descended from Jesus as well, by way of the Merovingians. So we could alternate nailer and nailee in the ceremonies.
    [ /whimsy ]
17. jcuknz 17

    30 April 2009 at 11:16 pm

    You guys are always trying to eat the cake before you bake it
18. jcuknz 18

    30 April 2009 at 11:28 pm

    ….;It?s a strange kind of freedom you?re arguing for when it means families can no longer spend Easter or Christmas together because they?ve been told they have to work….;

    Too right lets shut the country down and have no TV no Chgristmas Message from the Queen etc etc. No police, Fire Service to put out the burning Xmas Pudding Hospital patients given packets of sandwiches and bottles of fizz to last out

    You daft twits … I’ve been ‘on call’ 24/366 for most of my life and not had any problem organiseing family life. Unions should be arguing for a 40 hour week with a wage one can live on instead of Mon-fri weeks. We had that in the old days and it was dreadful in too many ways to relate.
19. Idiot/Savant 19

    1 May 2009 at 12:59 am

    Stolen for the Progressive Bills Project…

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