Smell the fear

Written By: - Date published: 2:28 pm, August 27th, 2013 - 236 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, Economy, grant robertson, greens, john key, labour, leadership, national, polls, russel norman, Shane Jones, slippery, spin - Tags:

John Key claims he doesn’t care who becomes the next parliamentary Labour leader, while trying to drive a wedge between candidates.

NZ Herald  today

Prime Minister John Key says he does not care who takes over the Labour leadership, and the race would reveal deep divisions in the party.

His comments come after Labour MP David Cunliffe yesterday confirmed he would go up against Grant Robertson and Shane Jones in the leadership contest.

The Labour party has confirmed Grant Robertson, David Cunliffe and Shane Jones were the only three nominations for party leader received by yesterday’s 10pm deadline.

And, now that Cunliffe is edging to the front of the contest,a s reported by the MSM, Key goes negative on Cunliffe, as reported by Andrea Vance on Stuff:

It’s day two of the Labour leadership battle and Prime Minister John Key has already accused one of the front-runners of lying.

New Lynn MP David Cunliffe this morning ruled out making Greens co-leader Russel Norman his finance minister in any post-election coalition, but Key said Cunliffe was lying and would do anything to be prime minister.

“If, in the end, the price of having a government with the Greens is Russel Norman being the deputy prime minister and minster of finance, will he rule that out categorically? The answer will be no,” Key said.

Asked if he was accusing Cunliffe of not telling the truth, Key replied: “He’s lying to you.

“In the end he will be desperate to become prime minister, in the end he will do whatever it takes and say whatever it takes.

“Come the moment that’s the price, he’ll say ‘well I’m doing my bit for the country’.”

Seems that Key is judging Cunliffe by his own standards, and scaremongering.  But Key needs to be careful because increasing numbers of New zealanders do not believe what he says.  NBR yesterday:

As New Zealand Prime Minister John Key faced a Labour leadership challenge from Grant Robertson, Shane Jones and David Cunliffe, a poll said New Zealanders do not believe in what he says.

According to the survey, although Kiwis trust the prime minister, majority don’t necessarily believe in him.  A Fairfax Media-Ipsos survey revealed that John Key was rated as an effective and strong leader.  When Kiwi survey respondents were asked if they completely believed what John Key says, only 23.5 per cent responded Yes while more than half or 58.6 per cent answered No.

Gordon Campbell’s latest article explains why the Key’s talk of Labour Party factions is a misdirection and mere political spin.  Campbell argues that factional split sbecome more obvious when a party is in opposition, and then get papered over when in government.  he points to Bill english’s problems when National were last in opposition and the about turn when Key became PM:

The notion that Labour in Opposition is somehow inherently more divided than National really is nonsense. National, at the best of times, has always been split between its traditional rural conservatives and its radical urban neo-liberals – and give National five minutes in Opposition and those divisions become screamingly apparent. In the not too distant future, the jostling and the undermining between the Joyce faction and the Collins faction will match and mirror any current divisions in the Labour ranks. That will be so, regardless of whether the current declarations of unity between the Labour contestants are genuine, or not.

The claims by National to a steady state of natural unity – unlike that other lot – are worth examining in detail.

[…]

Keep that in mind over the next few weeks as you hear National MPs parrotting the lines of their leader about the divisions in Labour’s ranks. Not true. Eleven years ago, Bill English was the National Party’s equivalent of David Shearer. Then National changed its leader, got on the comeback trail, and lo, the divisions closed over and were heard from no more. Until next time.

As for the more “left wing” criticism….this is pretty comical coming from a Prime Minister whose government has pursued a ideologically-driven right wing agenda on asset sales that makes no economic sense. The “left wing” criticism can be dealt with in a later column once we know which sleeper agent of the Kremlin (Grant Robertson? David Cunliffe?) has been elected, and will be girding himself to snuff out the lamp of freedom.

Indeed – the left wing scaremongering shows how afraid Key is about his government’s paper thin majority.

236 comments on “Smell the fear ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Crashcart 1
    27 August 2013 at 2:42 pm

    I did have a chuckle when I heard Key saying he didn’t care who became leader then went on the attack against Cunliff. What amazes me is that the people interviewing him don’t pick up on that sort of blatant bollox.

    • framu 1.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:15 pm

      “the people interviewing him don’t pick up on that sort of blatant bollox.”

      and thats the real kicker – its so unbelievably transparent when key does these lines, why does no-one put him on the spot?

    • Blue 1.2
      27 August 2013 at 4:29 pm

      “I’m relaxed about it” or “It doesn’t bother me” are stock-standard Key phrases that he trots out every time something actually does worry him but he wants to appear as if it doesn’t.

      True to form, the headlines read ‘Key relaxed about XYZ’ – exactly the image he wanted to project.

      No journo stops to say “Hey, you must care who wins because you’d be a fucking idiot if you didn’t.” They just print his preferred spin verbatim.

  2. Wairua 2
    27 August 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Smell the politics of fear. Key is doubtless thinking about his legacy .. and the hagiography he might get ghost-written.
    I mean, what else is there ? “How I made it on Wall Street” ? Sorry, John ..

  3. Hannah 3
    27 August 2013 at 2:55 pm

    I’m still trying to work out the explanation of why David Cunliffe doesn’t live in his electorate – breast feeding? That’s just so weird.

    [lprent: He already lived there well before becoming an MP. Perhaps you’d ask John Key the same thing. But the question and your previous comments identify you as a simple concern troll. Permanently banned.

    BTW: Say hello to Whale for me. ]

    • Colonial Viper 3.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:01 pm

      Is living in your electorate that big a deal though? I once heard John Key say it didn’t matter at all. But he would say that, wouldn’t he?

    • Te Reo Putake 3.2
      27 August 2013 at 3:07 pm

      Did Mrs English breastfeed Bill’s bairns? Does it matter? I’m picking not.

    • Hannah 3.3
      27 August 2013 at 3:26 pm

      He gets the La Leche League votes!

      • Te Reo Putake 3.3.1
        27 August 2013 at 3:38 pm

        And Grace Jones’s!

      • David 3.3.2
        27 August 2013 at 4:58 pm

        Hannah there’s a mighty good reason for it, well beyond the ‘breast feeding’ thing. People who know David well will tell you, and I truly think it makes good sense.

    • Treetop 3.4
      27 August 2013 at 5:34 pm

      Shame that men do not breast feed, then both parents could do the feeding. It is not for anyone but the parents to decide on how their baby is fed (breast/bottle) and this also includes where and for how long.

      Next comes the choice on how the child/ren are cared for. A parent may choose to dash home and have lunch with the child/ren if a nanny is employed. A day care close to work and home is also a good option. Who likes to travel more than required?

    • AmaKiwi 3.5
      27 August 2013 at 6:15 pm

      Cunliffe and his family were living in Herne Bay BEFORE he ever stood to be the MP for what was then the Titirangi electorate.

      Key must pass through 4 or 5 electorates to get from his Remuera home to his Helensville electorate.

      Phil Goff has a nice place in the country, a good distance from his Mt. Roskill electorate.

      The whole question is an indication that Cunliffe is well in the lead in this contest.

      • North 3.5.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:25 pm

        You’re well right in your last line there AmaKiwi. Makes me chuckle that that’s the best bitch point Friend Hannah can come up with. Pretty lame. I’ve never uttered this old classic before but I like it very much and the occasion to say it just keeps on repeating – “We need better RWNJs !”

      • Lucas the socialist 3.5.2
        8 September 2013 at 10:23 pm

        It doesn’t matter where the MP lives, I think it is more important how effective they are. My current MP is Ross Robertson, and he is fucking useless. A complete and utter lazy prick, and now he wants us to vote for him in a local board position all the while still on the MP tit. I am racking my brain as to why any one would vote for that useless, ineffective goon.

    • Marksman 3.6
      28 August 2013 at 6:30 pm

      He he,sock puppets everywhere.

  4. Sable 4
    27 August 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Oh the mainstream journalists pick the nonsense Keys spouts up alright but they are mostly in collusion with National, hence the silence.

    As to Cunliffe, trust him to alienate his most likely coalition partner the Greens before he’s even elected Labour Leader. As I have said before, its lean pickings when it comes to quality in the Labour leadership ranks.

    This attitude also speaks to Labours arrogant belief that its coalition partners are simply there to prop it up and give the party a mandate to rule.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:02 pm

      Don’t you think that the Greens understand the nature of an internal leadership campaign, versus post election day coalition negotiations?

      I would say they do.

      • Sable 4.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 3:05 pm

        I think it is wise not to antagonise likely coalition partners before you even get to the negotiation table. Its just common sense.

      • McFlock 4.1.2
        27 August 2013 at 3:36 pm

        so ruling norman out is just an internal election promise, to be revisited after the general election? You’re not agreeing with key, are you? 🙂

        • McFlock 4.1.2.1
          27 August 2013 at 4:00 pm

          belay that – should have known better than to take a paraphrasing at face value. My bad 🙂

          • Tracey 4.1.2.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 4:12 pm

            It appears Key has already stepped back slightly from his earlier comment to now say that he says Cunnliffe has ruled out working with Norman…

            “”But no one is going to believe David Cunliffe when he gets up there and says he won’t be working with Russel Norman – it’s just not true.””

            “”Go and ask David Cunliffe this question – if in the end he is the leader of the Labour party, and if in the end the price of having a government with the Greens is Russel Norman being deputy prime minister and minister of finance, will he rule that out categorically?””

    • karol 4.2
      27 August 2013 at 3:06 pm

      As a Green Party voter, I always was a little dubious about Norman being Finance Minister in a Labour led government. It seems to me that expectation could pull the Greens a bit more to the right. I would rather the Greens maintained their independence on finance matters.

      Also, with Cunliffe as PM, he would want to maintain the Labour Party independence on finance.

      Cunliffe has said he would work with the Greens and have them as part of his government in other capacities.

      • Sable 4.2.1
        27 August 2013 at 3:11 pm

        You make a good point karol.

      • Ennui 4.2.2
        27 August 2013 at 4:28 pm

        Karol, I dont think too many people on this blog have thought ahead to where a real “left” Labour Party will leave the Greens. My take is that the Greens when they reflect hard on the possibility of a “leftist” Labour will panic because it means they will be back at the 5% marginal stage.

        My contention is that the Greens have the most to lose if Cunliffe leads a Labour government that enacts traditional Labour policy because a large chunk of Green votes are disaffected Labour votes. And they will come back to Labour if it acts as a Labour government. Norman must be worried that Cunliffe will win the Labour leadership. What happens then to the Greens if a Labour government gets environmentally friendly?

        • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1
          27 August 2013 at 4:54 pm

          Labour’s not going to get particularly environmentally/conservation friendly in a hurry.

          The Greens is a nice place for the National soft vote.

        • Hanswurst 4.2.2.2
          27 August 2013 at 6:11 pm

          In order for the Greens to be part of a government, they require Labour as a larger coalition partner. If the next Labour leader is successful in projecting a more left-wing vision to the populace, that will mean that the entire mainstream political discourse will have been shifted to the left. That would generally provide room for the Greens to articulate a bolder, more left-wing position without seeming extreme. A more left-wing Labour Party, if successful, is a good thing for the Greens.

          Also, Labour will generally use the Greens in the same way as National use ACT: they will articulate a more centrist-seeming position in the knowledge that the Greens will draw left-oriented concessions from them in government. That will suit some in Labour more, others less, but it will still happen to some degree.

        • karol 4.2.2.3
          27 August 2013 at 6:21 pm

          I would be happy for the Greens not to fight Labour over the centre ground. i’d like to see more focus on Turei’s campaigns against poverty etc. And to keep Labour honest re- the environment.

      • Lucas the socialist 4.2.3
        8 September 2013 at 10:25 pm

        It won’t happen, I believe David when he says it. I think he has the strength and conviction to state that and back it up. Key doesn’t believe him, because he would lie and say anything to stay in power, so he cannot relate to honesty, a fucking liar.

    • Tom 4.3
      27 August 2013 at 3:08 pm

      Unfortunately, sometimes, you have to do what you can what you’ve got.
      I think you are right in suggesting that any future effective Labour leader will need
      effective cross-party coalition building skills. I think that two out of the three have
      been in that position, but they are all intelligent and capable politicians.
      At the risk of being accused of heresy on this blog or being vilified by
      rural conservatives, I think that there is a simple way to assess this.

      Talk to Metiria and Russell ..

    • lurgee 4.4
      27 August 2013 at 4:17 pm

      Oh the mainstream journalists pick the nonsense Keys spouts up alright but they are mostly in collusion with National, hence the silence.

      I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest Andrea Vance won’t be making much of an effort to do Key favours.

  5. tracey 5
    27 August 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Mrp shares hit all time low. I smell another diversion Nd a some smoke from the PMs pants.

    • Sable 5.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:13 pm

      I think at this time its clear what Keys is and what he stands for, people are not easily fooled.

      The problem lies in the fact that people don’t expect honesty from politicians so it may not hurt Keys election chances as much as you might think.

  6. tracey 6
    27 August 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Key lies so much he assumes everyone else is.

  7. tracey 7
    27 August 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Norman cld still get assoc finance?

  8. beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 8
    27 August 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Mr Key is reminding me more and more of a wee parrot on his perch when standing behind that lectern, parroting lies and vitriolic spin that he, no doubt, has practiced over and over again like one has to do with a parakeet when teaching it to speak.

    He looks so pleased with himself when he gets the latest piece of spin out and the media keep dishing it out to us, nearly every night. Just giving us time to work out how mindless and parrotlike anything he says ever is.

    (Sorry to parrots, the parallel is purely being drown with the likely ‘hollowness of comprehension’ that parrots have when they speak and likening this to the hollowness of moral core required for Mr Key’s performances)

  9. Linz 9
    27 August 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Then there’s this: https://mobile.twitter.com/BillyRalston/status/371932115052412928?p=v
    A conversation between Claire Robinson, Matthew Hooten, Gerry Brownlies, Deborah Coddington and Bill Ralston. Toxic waste.

    • Hannah 9.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:39 pm

      funny though; see that’s what happens when you tell fibs, you get found out. Eventually. Think I’ll give my vote to Shane.

    • emergency mike 9.2
      27 August 2013 at 4:07 pm

      Matthew Hooten accuses x of lying. Also lol.

      • Rhinocrates 9.2.1
        27 August 2013 at 9:04 pm

        Oh Hoots, we miss you here! It’s been so long since you scuttled under the fridge! Please come back! Mwah! Mwah! Luvvies! Tell us how much you love truth and honesty! Make us laugh!

    • karol 9.3
      27 August 2013 at 4:15 pm

      I would prefer all MPs lived in their electorate. When did it become fairly common not to?

      Cunliffe claims he responded to his wife’s desire to be near work when she was breast feeding. Couples have to negotiate such issues around each other’s work, and that can be tricky. Other women may not have felt the need to live closer to work. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t an issue for Mrs Cunliffe.

      But, anyway, it’s a side issue: Cunliffe’s opponents are using it as a way of highlighting his wealth, as Mr Glower did in his questions to Cunliffe yesterday in New Lynn.

      That’s the issue Cunliffe needs to front foot on.

      • Tracey 9.3.1
        27 August 2013 at 4:25 pm

        do you know if he was an MP at the time? I also think electorate MPs ought to live in their electorate.

      • Colonial Viper 9.3.2
        27 August 2013 at 9:02 pm

        That’s the issue Cunliffe needs to front foot on.

        Cunliffe and his wife have successful private sector roots.

        Nothing to shy away from.

        • karol 9.3.2.1
          28 August 2013 at 7:08 am

          True. But Cunliffe already gave an excellent response: ie they were a couple of kids from modest backgrounds, who, unlike the Nats, won’t be pulling the ladder up after themselves.

    • karol 9.4
      27 August 2013 at 5:12 pm

      And a very good tweeted response to those tweets, from Cunliffe:

      David Cunliffe ‏@DavidCunliffeMP 2h
      @JudithCollinsMP @stevenljoyce @MutchJessica @TonyRyallMP always fun to see who you target – says volumes

      • Rhinocrates 9.4.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:57 pm

        Excellent.

      • QoT 9.4.2
        27 August 2013 at 8:59 pm

        Great response.

        And I love the idea that moving back into Herne Bay when they had kids (assuming that’s what happened) means the breastfeeding issue is a lie, when most of the people in that conversation probably own multiple properties (well, not own, just have-control-of-through-an-interesting-matrix-of-trusts) and would be quite happy to move to a different one if it were better for their lifestyle.

        • Matthew Hooton 9.4.2.1
          29 August 2013 at 3:53 pm

          But that’s just the point. According to Ralston, they have lived in Herne Bay for 20 years. (Fair enough, I’d live there (or St Stephens Ave) if I could afford it.) But their kids are only about 10. So he was lying when he said they moved to Herne Bay so his wife could breastfeed. Why not just say “we have lived there for 20 years and like our home”?

          • Colonial Viper 9.4.2.1.1
            29 August 2013 at 4:01 pm

            I dunno, but if you want to make breastfeeding one of the issues of the 2014 election, feel free. Or, maybe Ralston’s numbers are wrong. Or, maybe Herne Bay was just a pretty typical suburb in the early 90’s.

            Or maybe Cunliffe wasn’t expecting such an assanine question. What’s next – if you were a real West Auckland Labour MP, why aren’t you driving around in an XF Falcon???

            • Matthew Hooton 9.4.2.1.1.1
              29 August 2013 at 4:05 pm

              I don’t know either. And it is not a massive issue (Key also made a dick of himself when he bought a house in Helensville so he could say he lives there). Just a bit weird that he would make up a silly story when “we like living in herne bay and have been lucky enough that we can” would have been a perfectly sensible and politically acceptable answer.

              • Colonial Viper …
                29 August 2013 at 4:07 pm

                Sorry mate, but Ralston’s most likely the one who’s fucked up the facts.

              • Tracey …
                29 August 2013 at 4:14 pm

                Labour obviously still have alot to learn about politically acceptable answers

              • Tracey …
                29 August 2013 at 4:21 pm

                If anyone knows where he lives for $54 you can order the certificate of title and see when he bought it. You will get it within an hour if not instantly. I would but I don’t know where he lives.

              • Rhinocrates …
                29 August 2013 at 6:56 pm

                Hoots, I just want to see you say it, something without an agenda, something with no further intention.

                Try repeating after me:

                “One plus one equals two”

                “The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.”

                These are phrases that have no agenda, no subtext, no dissimulation.

                Try it. You might find it liberating.

                Think of it as the first step in a twelve-step plan that could lead you to being able to produce a better impersonation of a human.

                Or answer this question:

                Why on earth do you even contemplate thinking for even a moment that anyone would think that you have even the slightest intention of acting in good faith?

            • Tamati 9.4.2.1.1.2
              29 August 2013 at 4:12 pm

              Next door St Mary’s bay (where I live) was apparently not nearly as nice in the 1990s as it is now. I guessing Herne Bay was similar.

              I think the issue is not breastfeeding but Mr Cunliffe’s integrity and character. Why did he need to come up with some lame ass excuse of why he lives where he does. All he need to say is “My family is luckey enough to have the option of living in Herne Bay, we chose to live here because it is most convienant for my wife and children. Nowdays many young couples can’t afford to purchase a home …blah… blah…Kiwibuild”

              • Colonial Viper …
                29 August 2013 at 5:39 pm

                If this is the best the Righties can do, Cunliffe for Leader is looking pretty damn good.

                • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard …
                  29 August 2013 at 5:56 pm

                  +1 CV

                  It also brings to mind what Delia commented (at (33) further down on this thread):

                  When National people crack on about Herne Bay and they do, it just shows they are miffed that a Labour MP would actually live there…it wrecks their ‘they are poor after hand outs’ myths. It is about the only thing they can ‘get’ David on, —where he lives. How pathetic.

                  ~ I think Delia gets to the crux of the matter

            • Tracey 9.4.2.1.1.3
              29 August 2013 at 4:18 pm

              CV, IF what Mr Hooten says Mr Ralston has said turns out to be true then not expecting the question isn’t an excuse to resort to an untruth.

              However if it’s not true then you wonder why anyone would be bothering to check such a small issue (which even Mr Hooten says he doesn’t have a problem with) in the first place and then repeating it here.

              I despair that Mr Ralston, trained in journalism considers this would be the best way to spend his time when there is so much more to investigate and elucidate the public on (excuse the contortion of my English there).

              • felix …
                29 August 2013 at 4:37 pm

                Does anyone have the verbatim quote from Cuniffe handy? Because it seems like you’re all taking Hooton’s word for what he said.

                Maybe he said they moved there for breastfeeding reasons. But maybe he said they chose to stay there – i.e. not move to New Lynn on becoming an MP – for breastfeeding reasons.

                The wording and the context are both very important. I don’t know either way, I haven’t heard it since earlier this week. But if Hooton is lying it wouldn’t be the first time.

                • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard …
                  29 August 2013 at 4:47 pm

                  +1 Felix

                  • Anne …
                    29 August 2013 at 5:55 pm

                    Does anyone have the verbatim quote from Cuniffe handy?

                    No I don’t felix but what I can say: Cunliffe has been a member of parliament for 12 to 13 years. His elder boy is around 12 years of age – I think. So it would seem that his entry into parliament and the birth of the first of his two boys were roughly around the same time. It is logical that a shift to his electorate (ten minutes away by car for him) would have nevertheless been more difficult for his wife – an inner city environmental lawyer who wanted to be handy enough to be able to breastfeed her two children over the coming few years.

                    Methinks Hooton is belittling himself with his transparent and desperate attempt to discredit Cunliffe at all cost.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      29 August 2013 at 7:21 pm

                      Well, he’s probably getting extra pay. If he isn’t, he should demand it, since he’d have to be Sir John Gielgud to make it convincing.

                      Anyway, it’s kinda fun to see him caper in this manner. I’ve missed him.

                      (God, his clients must be thick if they think he’s any good – they really are wasting their money.)

                • Tracey …
                  29 August 2013 at 4:51 pm

                  you know felix, Mr Hooten could have purchased a title from cheaptitles and proved or disproved Mr Ralston before posting. He didn’t. He or someone he knows would know Mr Cunliffe’s address and for a mere $15 could have found the truth of Ralston’s claim. $15 and Mr Hooten’s alleged concern about why Mr Cunliffe would answer why he did would be gone. he didn’t.

                • Tracey …
                  29 August 2013 at 5:03 pm

                  “Matthew Hooton (104) Says:
                  August 27th, 2013 at 7:17 am
                  Re the claim that he moved to Herne Bay so his wife could breastfeed, this is almost certainly a lie.
                  According to Bill Ralston, the Cunliffes have lived in Herne Bay for 20 years.
                  According to Rob Hosking, the children arrived around 10 years ago.
                  So it seems more likely they moved to Herne Bay because it is a very nice place to live and they could afford it, which is all fair enough.
                  So why make up stories about breastfeeding? Weird.”

                  You were after Hooten’s original quote, yes?

                  Further down the same list of comments this appears

                  SW (70) Says:
                  August 27th, 2013 at 3:07 pm
                  ““He won Titirangi in the 1999 election, retaining it under its new guise of New Lynn in 2002 and 2005, even though he had moved to a well-to-do inner suburb. He and Price have two sons, William and Cameron, and he says the shift eased matters – it was “not manageable for her to do the commute and her duties as a mum”.

                  I found the source
                  http://www.listener.co.nz/current-affairs/politics/action/

                  Mr Hooten had probably seen this before he posted here today. Note the dates. Yet he posted anyway… It seems you can take the man out of the hollow, but not the hollow out of the man.

                  • NZFemme …
                    29 August 2013 at 5:43 pm

                    Ralston’s last tweet to Hooten (11.52pm – 25 Aug) says “late nineties anyway” in regards to the Herne Bay question. Does Hooten have dyscalculia, or is he just being his usual spinningly arsehole self?

                  • karol …
                    29 August 2013 at 5:57 pm

                    Cunliffe mentioned his wife breastfeeding in a response to Gower at the New Lynn launch on Monday. I can’t find a direct quote, but this is the NZ Herald paraphrase of it:

                    When questioned about living in one of Auckland’s most exclusive streets – in Herne Bay – outside his electorate, he said he had moved out of the area when he had a young family, so his wife, who was a Queen St environmental lawyer, could breastfeed.

                    “We were lucky as a couple of kids that came from very modest backgrounds we were able to work hard and get ahead. The point is that Labour people don’t pull up the ladder when they’ve done it, they want the ladder to be there for everybody else.”

                    But pretty much in keeping with his comments reported in the Listener as quoted by Tracey.

                    Full audio here of the press conference, but I haven’t found the exact quote yet.

                    • NZFemme …
                      29 August 2013 at 6:54 pm

                      Question begins at 18:32

                      David responds:

                      “We did live here in the electorate and the honest answer to that question, which I’ve been very honest about since I was first an MP, was that when we were approaching having a young family and my wife was a Queen St environmental lawyer, we moved in closer so that she could breastfeed those children”.

                      I’m reading this to mean they were in the planning stages of starting a family, and made the move to have all their ducks in a row before their arrival. And good on them.

          • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 9.4.2.1.2
            29 August 2013 at 4:04 pm

            Oh! So Cunliffe is a liar?
            All the more reason to vote for him. It seems to be a well admired and necessary quality in the type of circles he’ll be circulating in when he is P.M.

            Is that not so, Mr Hooton?

          • Tracey 9.4.2.1.3
            29 August 2013 at 4:12 pm

            I am not impressed that he may have lied, which he has if your statement is true. I will not vote for anyone who has proven to be a liar or to have misled. Good on you for pointing out liars to us. It does not serve our democracy well to have people wanting to be leaders who can’t lie straight in bed. Please keep on showing up the lies and liars to us, we are too quick to allow such behaviour just because it fits our views.

            • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 9.4.2.1.3.1
              29 August 2013 at 4:43 pm

              @Tracey,
              Mr Hooton is a right wing spin doctor, and will only ever attempt to show up someone as a liar if it suits his bosses/political agenda. He will also not be averse to lying (or as some may call it, ‘twisting the truth’ ) himself. Therefore I suggest that you mustn’t believe a word Mr Hooton’s says, otherwise you might end up basing your assessments on who is a liar on an inaccurate and dishonest opinion.

              • Tracey …
                29 August 2013 at 4:53 pm

                Thanks begone, did you click on the links in my reply? I wonder if Mr Hooten did?

                • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard …
                  29 August 2013 at 6:23 pm

                  @ Tracey,

                  I doubt Hooter would look much further, he’ll be working furiously out his next piece of tripe.

                  He works on the theory that you shared in Open Mike today.

                  Doesn’t care whether what he says is true or false. His job is to implant doubt into people’s minds.

                  • Rhinocrates …
                    29 August 2013 at 6:38 pm

                    Exactly. Hoots’ job is to muddy the waters. Alas for him, he can only do that if people think that he is “reasonable” and not just a whore (apologies to sex workers everywhere) and that’s wearing increasingly thin.

                    I wonder if he has another career ready, such as guru of a tofu-weaving commune/cult, a la L. Ron Hubbard or Bert Potter?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      29 August 2013 at 6:52 pm

                      Alas for him, he can only do that if people think that he is “reasonable” and not just a whore (apologies to sex workers everywhere)

                      You sir, are a man of distinction.

                  • Rhinocrates …
                    29 August 2013 at 6:48 pm

                    “Why Do We Believe Lies Even After They Are Proven Wrong?”

                    because they think we want to, and Hoots and the Penguin and…. ah fuck it, you know who… know it. It’s all about “enabling”

                    “I can say it because it’s already been said” “It’s our shibboleth, cliched I know, but…” “It’s awful, but someone needs to say it”.

                    Say it out loud or leave it to the dirty operators like Whalecum to say it overtly, but make sure it’s out there, then dog-whistle so that people can follow the extreme and say, “No, I really mean what that reasonable chap Hooton said”, but Hoots all the time is pointing at the extreme.

                    He just uses “slightly” nicer language but has sentiments equally as vile.

                    Sometimes the mask slips, when he talks about Maori and women – “dumb bros” “stupid maori” and so on which pop up in his rants.

                    Hoots is an evil, corrupting individual who revels in his imagined ability to spread corruption – a Goebbels wannabe… and hopefully not as capable.

                    • Tracey …
                      30 August 2013 at 9:21 am

                      Frankly, deliberately spreading this when he knew from the thread at kiwiblog that Cunnliffe had said something similar to Ralston in the Listener and that he didnt bother to spend 15 bucks doing a title search to verify should render him illegible to get airtime or print time as a “commentator.

                      Remember Hollow Men

                    • beGone Craven SpyBill leopard …
                      30 August 2013 at 3:00 pm

                      @ Tracey,
                      I was truly shocked that Hooton is introduced as ‘a commentator’ on our TV/radio. This is really a very inaccurate label and allows him to be listened to with more openness than he deserves.

            • Colonial Viper 9.4.2.1.3.2
              29 August 2013 at 5:43 pm

              I am not impressed that he may have lied, which he has if your statement is true. I will not vote for anyone who has proven to be a liar or to have misled.

              Sorry but all you will do with that attitude is to pick politicians who will do nothing but lie to you through scripted lines and press management.

              Seriously who do you expect these politicians to be? Super human? Angels? Do you really want the truth on when Cunliffe’s wife was breastfeeding? I mean, WTF has that got to do with the price of snapper?

              • Tracey …
                30 August 2013 at 9:22 am

                Sorry if the nuances of my postings were lost on you and others. Sometimes it is better not to show your hand too early. I note Hooten never posted again, but he would have read.

            • Chooky 9.4.2.1.3.3
              29 August 2013 at 6:54 pm

              @ Tracey “I will not vote for anyone who has proven to be a liar or to have misled”

              …nothing is black and white…there are big lies and little lies….inadvertent lies….slips of the memory …brain fades under pressure….exaggerations….time warps …small fibs for a good cause…and there is mendacity on a continuing basis where the lies are designed to deceive…premeditated, constant and serve evil and wickednesses…eg. the suffering of others…injustice ….slander….revenge ….self- aggrandizement and personal greed….

              Learn to spot the differences in ‘lies’ and you will be a wiser person….

          • Tracey 9.4.2.1.4
            29 August 2013 at 4:59 pm

            Is Hooten plagerising Farrar or is Farrar plagiarising Hooten.

            Farrar doesn’t know the ages of the children. Hooten says he knows the ages of the children.

            Farrar doesn’t care just interested in the “rationale”. Hooten doesn’t care just wonders why “Why not just say “we have lived there for 20 years and like our home”?”

            Both of them have been around Key and his misstatements/lies/misleading for a long time, in Mr Hooten’s case even to help with election campaign/s (?).

            Yet, this has piqued their interest. I guess they have such indepth knowledge of Mr key’s rationale for lying, they don’t feel the need to share it with anyone else.

            • Rhinocrates 9.4.2.1.4.1
              29 August 2013 at 5:58 pm

              Interestingly, Armstrong is becoming more critical of Key and more respectful for David Cunliffe more often in his last few columns.

              He of course has no more backbone or brain than an amoeba, but Hoots and the Penguin have allowed themselves to be deluded by their impression that they are actually clever “power brokers” whereas Armstrong always knew that he is nothing but a follower.

              Look to a dedicated sycophant to see where the wind is really blowing.

              (That cocktail of metaphors must taste pretty bad…)

              I wonder if Key is weeping over Armstrong’s photo, crying, “You floozy, you slut! I thought you cared!“

  10. Winston Smith 10
    27 August 2013 at 3:32 pm

    I don’t see it as fear rather its a continuation of Keys tactic of putting his opponents on the back foot. He got Goff on the back foot in the debates and he never recovered, he did the same to Campbell in the interview so why not try it on Cunliffe?

    Control the narrative and make it sound like Cunliffes defending the indefensible, its simply good tactics on Keys part but we’ll see how Cunliffe reacts to it

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 10.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:49 pm

      It is fear.

      It is the fight part of ‘fight or flight.’

      And when the fight won’t work, it will be a flight back to Hawaii and his real bosses in America for Mr Key.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 10.2
      27 August 2013 at 3:52 pm

      He smacked the ball straight back at Key by pointing out just one of the items on Blip’s list.

      Incidentally, “very unlikely” is not the same as “ruling out”, no matter what that mendacious wretch the Prime Minister says.

    • McFlock 10.3
      27 August 2013 at 4:06 pm

      you’re hilarious

    • bad12 10.4
      27 August 2013 at 4:07 pm

      You might be correct there Winston Smith, the Alfred E Nuemann of Television Jonolism Patrick Gower tried much the same thing as what Slippery the PM is doing,

      i think Cunliffe in actually answering these sniveling little quibbles is buying into their narrative to some extent, i think He is way better than that and would suggest that the contest it’self will be distracting Him and He should relax,

      It’s pretty obvious to even the most dull that even at this early stage of the election David Cunliffe is the most likely of the 3 contenders to triumph and become the next Leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister at the 2014 election,

      Suggested answers for David Cunliffe when questioned on where He lives,

      ”i don’t think anyone really cares where i live, go and poll the hall and come back and ask me that question when you have everyone here’s opinion”

      ”Go ask the X thousand people who voted for me last election whether they care”,

      Suggested answer for David Cunliffe when Slippery starts whinging about Russell Norman being the next Minister of Finance,

      ”Well i was thinking of taking that portfolio Myself but tell me how much it worries you on a scale of one to ten, if it’s a ten i will have to seriously consider it”…

      • Winston Smith 10.4.1
        27 August 2013 at 4:20 pm

        ”Go ask the X thousand people who voted for me last election whether they care”

        – Something like that would put an end to the questioning for sure

        • Tracey 10.4.1.1
          27 August 2013 at 4:26 pm

          maybe.

          Of all the questions that matter to NZers that could be put to him, that was a preference?

          That speaks volumes about our media.

      • Chooky 10.4.2
        27 August 2013 at 5:37 pm

        bad 12 +1

        …think it would be very easy for a sincere person to get bogged down in trivia and superficial tricky questions….need to take distance and think ( f – yu ) Winnie is a master at this

      • phillip ure 10.4.3
        27 August 2013 at 7:33 pm

        “..the Alfred E Nuemann of Television Jonolism Patrick Gower..”

        i do see the nuemann similarities..

        ..tho’ i thought a minor dickens character…(a functionary..beholden for his position..and holding it.. by currying favour with the powerful/powers that be..

        ..one who stands behind a major character..(wearing high white/starched collars..)

        ..standing and bowing and scraping – and wringing his hands on cue..

        ..or perhaps one of the denizens of/from the further reaches of the castle from that mervyn peake masterpiece..’gormenghast’..?

        ..phillip ure..

        • Rhinocrates 10.4.3.1
          27 August 2013 at 7:38 pm

          Key as Steerpike? Brownlee as Swelter? Is Collins Clarice or Cora or both? That could work.

          • lurgee 10.4.3.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 9:32 pm

            I suppose David Shearer is poor, doomed Fuchsia.

            • Rhinocrates 10.4.3.1.1.1
              29 August 2013 at 6:03 pm

              Fuschia was pretty and she had a good heart. One, the other or both make a tragedy.

              If Shearer had the makings of a great man, like Hamlet or Coriolanus or even MacBeth, then his fate would be a tragedy. Alas, he was only the pointy-haired boss from Dilbert. I don’t even like Dilbert – it’s far too much like the evil of banality under my former employer, Massey “University”.

              Shearer was a farce perpetuated into, um, something I don’t have a word for.

  11. Psycho Milt 11
    27 August 2013 at 3:36 pm

    “If, in the end, the price of having a government with the Greens is Russel Norman being the deputy prime minister and minster of finance, will he rule that out categorically? The answer will be no,” Key said.

    Well, Key is of course well qualified to express opinion on the subject of political leaders lying about who they won’t work with – one recalls, for example, his principled refusal to consider coalition with Winston First at a time when such a coalition wasn’t necessary for him to form a government. How swiftly principle was trampled when it began looking like such a coalition might become necessary for him to form a government in future. Obviously Key considers Cunliffe to be a man cut from the same cloth as himself.

  12. tracey 12
    27 August 2013 at 3:37 pm

    I think you mean negative personality politics. I wish you would call it what you have called it here in the past when opposition mps do it.

  13. tracey 13
    27 August 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Lol hannah but jones wrongly charged something to the tax payer. Which is like a lie.

    • chris 13.1
      27 August 2013 at 4:13 pm

      No it is theft…

      • Tracey 13.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 4:27 pm

        ok, I await Hannah saying why she prefers a proven thief to an alleged liar.

      • phillip ure 13.1.2
        27 August 2013 at 7:35 pm

        “..No it is theft..”

        ..a stolen pleasure..?

        phillip ure..

      • Populuxe1 13.1.3
        28 August 2013 at 1:05 am

        Actually it’s neither a lie nor theft. He paid it off out of his own money when he found out it had been charged to his work card and he admitted it when questioned. I don’t have a problem with that and I certainly am not a prude to get worked up over someone indulging in a bit of porn.

        But tell me, is it theft when someone steals someone else’s Facebook post?
        http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8713038/cunliffes-facebook-flattery-falls-flat

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.3.1
          28 August 2013 at 1:18 am

          The police prosecutor would probably suggest not proceeding with the case because Grant was deprived of no money or property by the inadvertent action.

        • weka 13.1.3.2
          28 August 2013 at 1:19 am

          The thing about Jones and the porn watching is that if it had been someone else it would have blown over by now. But Jones comes across as unsavory in too many other areas, so the porn thing will just stick. The porn issue is just a reflection of who he is as a man generally.

          • felix 13.1.3.2.1
            28 August 2013 at 6:04 am

            Yep, and it’s not our fault that it’s the only memorable thing he’s done with his time in parliament.

        • karol 13.1.3.3
          28 August 2013 at 7:12 am

          But tell me, is it theft when someone steals someone else’s Facebook post?

          You really think Cunliffe is so stupid as to deliberately “steal” Robertson’s statement?

          IT glitch sounds much more plausible – and calling it “theft” is really a stretch.

        • Tracey 13.1.3.4
          28 August 2013 at 7:23 am

          dancing on the head of a pin.

          It’s actually theft if you took without permission. Giving back is the reparation and doesn’t change the act.

          I agree with you that it shouldn’t make or break a career. Lying from 2007 to today should, and I speak of the PM.

          I am genuinely astounded by how many people believe constantly lying (or misleading) the people of NZ doesn’t matter.

          Apparently it is ok because the country is doing so well. HOW is the country doing so well?

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 13.1.3.4.1
            29 August 2013 at 6:57 pm

            I’m amazed no-one has realised the Truth™: that DC’s staff accidentally used GR’s lines because they’re all reading from the same script 😉

            Where’s a tiresome conspiracist cretin when you need one?

          • Rhinocrates 13.1.3.4.2
            29 August 2013 at 7:07 pm

            Alas, said by Harry S Truman of some South American dictator, “He’s a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.”

            I suspect that is why a lot of people still rate Key.

            On Shearer, they think, “He’s a fuckup, and thank God he’s their fuckup.”

            Hell, I’d vote for Hannibal Lecter or HAL 9000, deluding myself that they’d go after my enemies/bogeymen until they came for me.

            David Cunliffe may not be the messiah, but I hope he’s my naughty boy.

  14. Appleboy 14
    27 August 2013 at 3:49 pm

    “In the end he will be desperate to become prime minister, in the end he will do whatever it takes and say whatever it takes.

    He should know about that! Quite hilarious from the man who couldn’t lie straight in bed.

    Was this the man who said “No Winston At Any Cost” who’s being lining up Winston if he needs him next year?

    Was this the same dick who said working for families was communism…and kept it.

    Was this the man who said interest free student loans were a bribe ….but kept them?

    What an utter lying tosser.

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 14.1
      27 August 2013 at 3:54 pm

      +1 Appleboy

    • infused 14.2
      27 August 2013 at 4:25 pm

      Those will be revoked in the 3rd term. Wait and see.

    • srylands 14.3
      27 August 2013 at 4:54 pm

      “Was this the same dick who said working for families was communism…and kept it.

      Was this the man who said interest free student loans were a bribe ….but kept them?”

      This is hardly lying!

      There will be a myriad of Government policy settings that the PM will dislike. The Government is limited in what it can do by electoral acceptance of its policies. I think the PM has been open that he views interest free student loans as bad policy (which it is) but he can’t do anything because it has majority public support. The public are wrong but what can you do?

      • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 14.3.1
        27 August 2013 at 5:56 pm

        “The public are wrong but what can you do?”

        Oo I don’t know, how about set up laws that gives government a massive power to cut into the private lives of anyone they see fit, and set up legislation so that forms of protesting are a crime, get the mainstream media on board to promote interests that go against the publics interest and then start building more prisons and jail them all.

        Oh! hang on a minute, apart from the last point hasn’t exactly these things occurred recently in NZ?

        It is wrong-minded to view the public coming out in large numbers against a specific issue as wrong. It leads to wrong-minded governing, it is goes against democratic principles and this is what is happening here in NZ currently.

      • North 14.3.2
        27 August 2013 at 7:38 pm

        Forgive me Srylands but to abuse something as dastardly then when you have the power to fix it leave it in place – IS lying. If it’s not then it’s the height of hypocrisy……..like awesomely so.

        You clearly have the most defective moral compass. Which seems quite unremarkable for ShonKey Python acolytes. Never mind……..2014 the mongrel’s off our backs !

        Who you gonna declare your love for then ? Bogus Bishop Brian Tamaki ? ‘Cos the creep’s coined it ?

      • Tracey 14.3.3
        28 August 2013 at 7:25 am

        but but but he had a mandate to change them.

        Could you cite your source for student loans having majority public support?

        LOL @ majority support? You mean like the s59a referendum which he voted against?

        Selective srylands.

  15. emergency mike 15
    27 August 2013 at 3:52 pm

    ‘John Key accuses x of lying.’ lol

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

    “Later studies were critical of Freud’s theory. Research supports the existence of a false consensus effect whereby humans have a broad tendency to believe that others are similar to themselves, and thus “project” their personal traits onto others. This applies to good traits as well as bad traits and is not a defence mechanism for denying the existence of the trait within the self.

    Instead, Newman, Duff, and Baumeister (1997) proposed a new model of defensive projection. In this view, people try to suppress thoughts of their undesirable traits, and these efforts make those trait categories highly accessible—so that they are then used all the more often when forming impressions of others. The projection is then only a by-product of the real defensive mechanism.”

    Or just plain old cold calculated spin take your pick. Personally in this case I think it’s ‘all of the above’.

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 15.1
      27 August 2013 at 6:11 pm

      @ Emergency Mike,

      I am guessing the utter b/s spin Key makes up or regurgitates is more believable to people because he believes his own little made-up reality due to at least one of the first two reasons you supply. i.e. the spin really is secondary, yet obviously is a factor in his bosses little games.

  16. One Anonymous Knucklehead 16
    27 August 2013 at 3:57 pm

    “Book a very long holiday in Hawaii”.

    Cunliffe can easily take the fight to Key, but when two tigers fight one dies and the other dies later. They may decide to keep it a lot more civil than some here would like.

    Better DC (or any other Labour leader for that matter) point out the poor quality of the policies Key sells than go after him personally. As Cunliffe says, the crucial difference between them is that DC won’t pull up the ladder behind him.

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 16.1
      27 August 2013 at 4:14 pm

      @ One Anonymous Knucklehead,

      I thought that ‘pulling the ladder up’ comment was very strong and clearly said with a great deal of feeling. The spontaneity and visible feeling behind this comment isn’t something that can be manufactured.

      This comment and the way it was said, alone shows me that he would be effective in asserting policies that are in the best interests of New Zealanders when in power.

      I truly hope that those in a position to vote him in as leader see this and vote for him. The public, if given the chance, are likely to follow suit.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 4:23 pm

        The Daily Blog Bomber is quoting the New Lynn speech with relish and why not?

    • Winston Smith 16.2
      27 August 2013 at 4:23 pm

      “Better DC (or any other Labour leader for that matter) point out the poor quality of the policies Key sells than go after him personally”

      – Advice Labour should have heeded years ago

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.2.1
        27 August 2013 at 5:19 pm

        Yes! Because implying that Labour are the only party that does it is such an honest position to take. Truly. You’re so right and your sincerity shines like a beacon for all to see.

        Akshully, on the other hand, if the only point you can score is cheap and false you must be desperate. Sad but true 😆

      • Tracey 16.2.2
        28 August 2013 at 7:29 am

        unlike key the last few weeks.

        the veneer is cracking and his comment to red zoners was appalling but gives people a good look at the real John Key.

  17. busman 17
    27 August 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Smell the fear !!!!!!!!!!!!! what !!!!
    up against a poof a meglamaniac and the minister for porn !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ha ha ha ha ha you are just a bunch of losers

    [lprent: silly troll. bye. ]

    • McFlock 17.1
      27 August 2013 at 4:39 pm

      So were you the busman who was drunk on the job, or the one who pulled a u-turn on the harbour bridge?

    • Paul 17.2
      27 August 2013 at 4:54 pm

      Do you call this intellectual debate?
      On the issues?

    • Tracey 17.3
      28 August 2013 at 7:30 am

      apart from the overuse of exclamation marks and lack of commas, your spelling was spot on. You may be a gifted child.

  18. Plan B 18
    27 August 2013 at 4:51 pm

    JK understands Media Oxygen. Survival depends on it. He gets it by making noises. It does not really matter what the noise is. He could moo like a cow, it simply does not matter as long as he gets that Oxygen. It is his picture in the paper, him on the news , on the radio etc. Polls are a simple reflection of the amount of oxygen.
    Poll ranking and coverage will inevitably go together. And it is coverage that drives the poll ranking. So JKs job is to always be in the media. He can make up whatever he likes it does not really matter as long as he is there.

  19. BrucetheMoose 19
    27 August 2013 at 4:55 pm

    Reading Key’s comments, I thought Key was describing himself. But oh no, just more standard push play egotistic delusional rhetoric.

    • geoff 19.1
      27 August 2013 at 5:01 pm

      Exactly.

      Key is in a bit of a pickle really. He’s got limited ammunition against whoever the leader of Labour will be and any muck he throws will look like the pot calling the kettle black..

  20. Tamati 20
    27 August 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I’m struggling to understand Key’s tactics in this situation. He’s gone out of his way to single Cunliffe out as a liar but why?

    Surely, having the PM attack him will only invigorate Cunliffe supporters. It shows Key is fearful of him so they should support him. But perhaps Key is playing a longer game here?

    In a way he his helping DC by signaling him out… Perhaps he wants him to win?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 20.1
      27 August 2013 at 5:44 pm

      I doubt Key’s lines were off-the-cuff.

      The underlying message is that Cunliffe is so avid for power he’ll do anything to get it. It will be interesting to see if Key’s scriptwriters will push this barrow any further.

      Cunliffe and Norman both handled the question graciously. I think Key’s scriptwriters seeds are falling on stony ground 🙂

      • geoff 20.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 7:26 pm

        The underlying message is that Cunliffe is so avid for power he’ll do anything to get it.

        Which again is ironic because Key will do just about anything to hold onto it.

  21. hellonearthis 21
    27 August 2013 at 5:27 pm

    If Key was the head of the opposition and was saying who should be the next National leader, he would be going on about how Aaron Gilmore would make a great leader and if it was not him then Anne Tolley.

  22. Treetop 22
    27 August 2013 at 5:42 pm

    Key has become so adolescent in the debating chamber, (no offence to adolescents).

    • BrucetheMoose 22.1
      27 August 2013 at 6:01 pm

      After a small group of land owners were deliberately put in a financially desperate situation, they stood their ground and put up a valiant fight against the government. After they finally won in the High Court, Key’s attitude towards them is noted in this article today. If you want to see his latest adolescent ramble, try this – http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9089373/Govt-to-appeal-High-Court-red-zone-ruling
      Truly disgusting behaviour from our so called Prime Minister. Just a majestic idiot.

      • Treetop 22.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:13 pm

        Only about 150 properties affected. Threatening to walk away (immature). It suits Key to raise there being a precedent so he is not labled a thief.

        Most people are capable of thinking outside the box as USUALLY the land can be resold. There is a difference as the land cannot be resold.

        • Treetop 22.1.1.1
          27 August 2013 at 6:27 pm

          TV 3 news has stated about 150 properties, some had homes on them and were uninsured.

        • Bastables 22.1.1.2
          27 August 2013 at 11:32 pm

          So emulating Crassus stand over tactics to gain wealth/land most of which Plutarch declares Crassus got “by fire and rapine, making his advantage of public calamities”. Is thinking outside the box?

          Or it’s a goddam attempt at rort just as it was during the republic of Rome.

          • Treetop 22.1.1.2.1
            28 August 2013 at 1:44 pm

            “Is thinking outside the box?”

            Both parties, (the land owners and the government) both have to think outside the box. I do not have the figures to break down the uninsured sections with a home on them, vacant land without a home and those who have settled, know it is about 150.

            A section cannot be insured without the commencement of a build.

            A woman around 60ish on Campbell Live last night had an offer of $100,000 – $110,000 for her uninsured home and section which worked out to 16% of the value of her GV. I’d like to see the formula being used.

            So much is open to interpretation.

            1. In the process of placing a house on the market due to a divorce settlement.
            2. Thinking that the bank where you have the mortgage paid the home insurance.
            3. Waiting to hear back from an insurance broker to get insurance.
            4. The government red zoned the area and not the home/section owner.
            5. Relocating the home.

            The government gave two options to insured home owners which has its own set of problems e.g. The value of the section and the stage a build was at, (not sure how the value was worked out).

            The opposition need to take a good long hard look at the plight of uninsured home and section owners who are being ripped off and to do what is decent.

            Easier to fix this sort of problem in future, compulsory home and section insurance.

      • Pasupial 22.1.2
        27 August 2013 at 6:28 pm

        ShonKey’s compassion for earthquake victims:

        “One option is the Government says: ‘Thanks very much, it’s been a lot of fun. If you don’t want to take the offer, that’s where it’s at’.”

      • Tracey 22.1.3
        28 August 2013 at 7:33 am

        rio tinto $30m
        Warner Bros $20m

        small number of vulnerable red-zoners – $0 if Key has his way. The smiling assassin appears.

    • chris 22.2
      27 August 2013 at 8:45 pm

      @treetop… “Key has become so adolescent in the debating chamber”

      Key has simpered and smirked from the outset, he has never left adolescence.

  23. Russell 23
    27 August 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Cunliffe is a joke. As for not living out West in his electorate because his wife had to breast feed – Do Labour party faithful seriously buy into this crap???

    [lprent: Dickhead – what was the date of the purchase of house? Years before standing as a MP.

    Not to mention that his family was settled there. His wife works in the city. Why the hell you seem to think that the rest of the family should sacrifice themselves to a life of politics is somewhat beyond my comprehension.

    Really.. Such completely stupid pig-ignorant and misogynist trolling is getting irritating – permanently banned. Go to Kiwiblog and ask the same questions of John Key – you might get more sympathy there for being a dumb caveman. ]

    • Treetop 23.1
      27 August 2013 at 5:57 pm

      Have you ever breast fed a baby?

    • Chooky 23.2
      27 August 2013 at 5:57 pm

      @ Russell…get a life!….didnt your Mummy breastfeed you?….you poor dear….sounds to me like you were a bottle fed baby!

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 23.3
      27 August 2013 at 6:02 pm

      The chances of me voting Labour if Cunliffe is leader are very high. This is because I agree with the political statements he has made about the patent failure of our current economic paradigm.

      If, based on these intelligent, informed and up-to-date views, he aims to shift the hopeless direction that NZ is traveling in, Russell, quite frankly, I don’t give a damn where he lives.

    • the pigman 23.4
      27 August 2013 at 6:05 pm

      Do you think Labour party faithful seriously buy into your act? Personal incredulity, largely offered by tory concern trolls, is already wearing thin.

    • BrucetheMoose 23.5
      27 August 2013 at 6:06 pm

      Well Russell, not everybody grew up to be a tough bastard after being bottle fed on Lion Red

    • karol 23.6
      27 August 2013 at 6:18 pm

      As Cunliffe tweeted:

      National Party already moving into personal attack mode. Rattled by Labour’s invigorating leadership race?

    • Northshoreguynz 23.7
      27 August 2013 at 7:00 pm

      So let me see, John Key is an Auckland MP, despite being from Christchurch, and does he live in his rural electorate. Nooo, what a shock, he lives in swanky Parnell.
      The Wikipedia definition of a Tosser.

    • felix 23.8
      27 August 2013 at 7:51 pm

      Has he ever said he lives in New Lynn though? And then claimed public money to pay himself to live in the house he really lives in?

      You know, like English did, and Key changed the law to allow him to continue doing?

  24. lurgee 24
    27 August 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Any and all candidates and commentators under-estimate Key at their peril. I doubt he’s scared of Cunliffe.

    • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 24.1
      27 August 2013 at 6:22 pm

      Nah, noone would under-estimate how low Key would go to win a battle of the leaders, yet he’s scared alright.

      It is you who are over-estimating. Guess that is your job.

      • lurgee 24.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:28 pm

        Ah, of course. Anyone who disagrees has to be a troll or a nat infiltrator. Forgot that.

        Grow up, will you?

        Key is a massively cunning adversary. Otherwise, how has he managed to be Prime Minister for two terms and still retain popularity, inspite of pursuing an agenda at odds with what people actually want?

        He’s used to dealing with far more ominous fish than David Cunliffe.

        • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 24.1.1.1
          27 August 2013 at 6:47 pm

          @ Lurgee,

          It is hard to view anyone propagating a narrative that serves Key’s agenda as anything other than some paid spinner. It is hard to imagine someone stupid enough to provide such a narrative for free. Sorry if this is not the case, but that is the reasoning behind my inference.

          Key is used to dealing with people who are afraid to speak truth to power, I suspect Cunliffe is not the type of adversary Key is used to dealing with.

          • lurgee 24.1.1.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 8:27 pm

            I’m (vaguely) reminded of Orwell’s comments about HG Well’s mis-estimation of Hitler in Wells, Hitler & The Wolrd State. You can characterise Key – as Wells describes Hitler – as a screaming little defective, but I give him more credit than that. After all, he’s won two elections and STILL enjoys good ratings. If nothing else, belittling Key belittles the New Zealand public. We need to win these people over, not dismiss them as easily beguiled fools.

            Orwell defined Wells’s response to ultra-Nationalism and totalitarian brutality thus:

            The usual rigmarole about a World State, plus the Sankey Declaration, which is an attempted definition of fundamental human rights, of anti-totalitarian tendency. Except that he is now especially concerned with federal world control of air power, it is the same gospel as he has been preaching almost without interruption for the past forty years, always with an air of angry surprise at the human beings who can fail to grasp anything so obvious.

            That seems to describe the delusive state of the pro-Cunliffe faction very well. Though I am starting to feel a bit of ‘angry surprise’ myself, when I read, over and over again, that David Cunliffe is going to mop the floor with John Key. I don’t think it is going to be that easy at all. Cunliffe’s ‘truth speaking’ credentials are a bit debateable. Key’s credentials as a shrewd, ruthless and remorseless operator aren’t.

            • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1.1.1
              27 August 2013 at 8:31 pm

              No one thinks that besting Key during an election campaign is going to be easy. But at least with Cunliffe in the ring, its going to be an even fight.

            • beGone Craven SpyBill leopard 24.1.1.1.1.2
              28 August 2013 at 1:13 pm

              Yes to what CV says, thank you CV.

              Lurgee,
              If you read my first response to your comment you will see that I said the same as CV did here.

              I think I am ‘getting’ where you are coming from, I should have said in my first comment that you are underestimating what people are basing there support for Cunliffe on:

              There have certainly been times where it has been very easy to see NZers as ‘easily beguiled fools’. It is, however, incorrect to do so.
              From observation there are powerful tactics employed in order to ensure that people vote against their interests. For example there is a systemic bias in our media and systematic misinformation and a dearth of accurate information being propagated. People only know what they are told and sadly, people may still read newspapers and watch TV under the [mistaken] belief they are keeping themselves informed. It would be nice to see this mistaken belief change. I, perhaps, have had an early ‘heads up’ on the state of our media, because from an early age have happened to lived amongst people from a variety of countries and am [still] regularly told how appalling the information provided by NZ media sources is.

              A lot of people are also very busy and not too interested in spending hours digging around for accurate information on their countries political activities.

              For the above reasons it is simply incorrect to say NZers are ‘easily beguiled’.

              It is also incorrect to say that ‘belittling Key belittles the NZ public’. This is simply false logic. There are two separate identities in that statement, Mr Key and the NZ public, it does not follow that belittling one is to belittle the other.

              The above mentioned conditons alone, creates a huge obstacle for anyone with decent political views that actually aim to serve the interests of ordinary NZers over big money profit interests from being received onto the main platform.

              I guess these points are somewhat where you are coming from?
              I already take these factors into account when I view Mr Cunliffe as a good challenger to Key.

              What is hopeful in the above circumstances is when someone stands up and appears to have the passion, communication skills and ability to debate. Who can make points very clearly and quickly in a manner that is interesting for people to watch and is easy to understand. I believe Mr Cunliffe has shown these skills. An example being his interview with Mr English on Q&A before the last election (no link sorry, I haven’t broadband and it would take forever, although I suspect it would be available via the Q & A website )

              As others have mentioned, a ‘strength’ that Key has had is the incredible lack of strength of the largest left-wing political party’s opposition. ‘No credible other option to vote for’. It appeared that the spin doctors were out in full force influencing Labour to ensure this stayed the case in the last Labour leadership contest.

              It is well and good to be cocky and appear confident when you have such machinations working in your (or your bosses’) interests, however, as many people have said ad infinitum here on the Standard, if a person with good communication and debating skills and the knowledge to back it up is presented to oppose Mr Key and co, Mr Key’s seemingly endless popularity might well take a dive.

              Mr Key, also, has a clear weakness that he appears to have no real appreciation or understanding of democratic principles. It appears that the only approach he knows is to treat NZ as a corporate body and provide the only skills he knows-to do with money and firing- to that model. This is clearly proving to be an entirely insufficient skill set to run a country, which involves not solely a profit motive, also people interests and all the paradoxes such brings into play. This weakness shows up the most when Winston Peters attacks Key in parliament. Key really crumbles. He simply doesn’t have answers for such notions.

              Grant Robertson has already had a pivotal role in the NZLP opposition, and failed. I know v little of Jones, so can’t really comment on that, however it is clear that Mr Cunliffe has already displayed the type of skill set that provides a good challenge to Key.

            • North 24.1.1.1.1.3
              29 August 2013 at 6:45 pm

              For the life of me I start to understand that Lurgee is nought but a National Party troll. All armed up with obligatory denunciations of ShonKey Python fancying that to be a clever concealment of the trolling reality.

    • Colonial Viper 24.2
      27 August 2013 at 6:23 pm

      Possibly, but compared to Shearer he is.

      • karol 24.2.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:30 pm

        Key has a wafer thin parliamentary majority. So he will be afraid of a strong Labour leadership. hence the knives coming out.

        The good thing about such a public leadership contest is it is a baptism of fire. It happens with the US primaries. The successful candidate has to cope with a lot of shit being thrown at them.

        But Key could over play his hand in his wedge politics approach. Ditto Glower tonight with his shonkey little swipe at Cunliffe over the Man Ban – basically saying Cunliffe’s leave it to the members to decide, was interpreted by Glower as being prepared to say anything to get the members’s support in the leadership contest. Worthy of a major Jonolist award. Disgraceful man.

        • geoff 24.2.1.1
          27 August 2013 at 7:31 pm

          I note on twitter that Gower says he is not going to the Labour conference.

          • Anne 24.2.1.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 8:14 pm

            Well, he made a twat of himself last time constantly shoving his mike in people’s faces and in particular Cunliffe’s face. Not surprised he plans to give it a miss this year.

            • Colonial Viper 24.2.1.1.1.1
              27 August 2013 at 9:50 pm

              My recommendation: no press pass for Gower to the Labour Conference. 3News invited to send any other journalist.

              • Boadicea …
                27 August 2013 at 11:16 pm

                Hear hear.

                The Labour Press team needs to have a set of house rules for the media and to enforce them. It was bonkers what happened at the Ellerslie Conference last year. The Press were like a herd of marauding banoons.

          • Tracey 24.2.1.1.2
            28 August 2013 at 7:38 am

            Then they need to openly extend an invitation to him, so when he challenges them after the conference they can ask him what he bases his question on given he chose not to attend their conference?

          • Marksman 24.2.1.1.3
            28 August 2013 at 7:07 pm

            Lets face it,Gower,Garner,Espinier,the True Axis of Evil.Think revolution,think power poles.As Billy Connelly said “Hangings to good for him”

        • Tracey 24.2.1.2
          28 August 2013 at 7:37 am

          received a letter from ACT president recently. 3/4 of it is about how by voting ACT in Epsom “we” have been able to determine the government for the past two elections. LIGHT on policy but big on this fact. Sadly, I think they will win the seat again.

    • Chooky 24.3
      27 August 2013 at 6:26 pm

      @ lurgee….of course Key is scared!….Key knows he will be beaten in a face to face political boxing match with Cunliffe….BRING IT ON!….I want to see Key on the ropes out in the open…

      • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 24.3.1
        27 August 2013 at 6:33 pm

        +1 Chooky

      • lurgee 24.3.2
        27 August 2013 at 6:36 pm

        I’m pretty sure Key can handle himself. See above. I doubt someone who cooly ripped off his own country in his old job, knifed his party leader and stepped up to lead same country, is particularly prone to flapping or fear. Look at his CV. This isn’t the employment record of someone who can’t handle pressure. It IS the CV of a ruthless, self serving swine, but that’s an entirely different matter.

        • Hanswurst 24.3.2.1
          27 August 2013 at 6:45 pm

          His CV shows that he has handled pressure in the past. However, his record in politics shows that he does crumble under pressure: Tranzrail shares, incorrect statements to parliament regarding the GCSB, promises that he can’t keep to Pike River families, a throat-slitting gesture in parliament, lodging a complaint with the police about the teapot tape, mistaken comments about the GCSB Ammendment Bill on Campbell Live…. Key has a proven track-record of making mistakes and/or proving himself to be a dick under pressure. People have also noticed, they just haven’t seen anybody else they would rather vote for yet.

          • Rhinocrates 24.3.2.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 8:53 pm

            Key’s handled temporary pressure in the past, but it always went away as a new deal came up. With him, and the failed merchant banks, it’s always move on to the next scam, but even though they say that a week is a long time in politics, the teflon wears away over time, the skeletons gather in the closet, the enemies and grudges line up and won’t go away, and in the media, the boredom builds up like a blocked drain.

            Don’t rely on people with short attention spans, because eventually they’ll get bored with you too.

            “All political careers end in failure” – Enoch Powell. Laughing Boy’s time is coming. It’ll probably end in a gated community in Hawaii, but he’ll be gone anyway.

            People have also noticed, they just haven’t seen anybody else they would rather vote for yet.

            “Yet” Exactamundo. Fingers crossed…

            • Tim 24.3.2.1.1.1
              27 August 2013 at 11:56 pm

              🙂
              People used to think Nik Leeson was a great guy too – till Barings Bank turned to shit. Then they ran a mile

        • beGone Craven Spy Bill leopard 24.3.2.2
          27 August 2013 at 7:14 pm

          @ Lurgee,
          You just described a person who doesn’t handle himself very well at all and numerous examples of good reasons to be rid of him. Time to vote for someone else peoples.

    • Hanswurst 24.4
      27 August 2013 at 6:36 pm

      “Any and all candidates and commentators under-estimate Key at their peril. I doubt he’s scared of Cunliffe.”

      Nah. There is no “estimating” of any kind going on here. It’s just an assessment of facts; Key is clearly afraid of Cunliffe, otherwise he wouldn’t come out with a line that so clearly renders him vulnerable. Key’s criticism relies on hypothetical occurrences, whereas the same criticism can be proven in Key’s own positions on Winston Peters or, as Cunliffe pointed out, GST.

    • Murray Olsen 24.5
      27 August 2013 at 6:39 pm

      I don’t care who Key’s scared of, but why are all the NAct MPs so scared of him? Is there something deep in their psyches that only reacts to bullying and domination?

      Why does Cunliffe live in Herne Bay? Who cares? To dyed in the wool Tories, the address might be the most important thing on a job application, but the broader left has moved on from feudalism.

      • Colonial Viper 24.5.1
        27 August 2013 at 8:17 pm

        To dyed in the wool Tories, the address might be the most important thing on a job application,

        You see, I think that’s it. Just like state housing families are not supposed to live in amongst the well-to-do in nice suburbs, having a professionally successful democratic socialist on your street is even WORSE.

  25. feijoa 25
    27 August 2013 at 7:05 pm

    I’m sure I heard on TV last night, can’t remember which channel news, that at DC’s announcement he was running ” he was sitting under a photo of himself” !! FFS

    I would also like to point out Grant has a huge life size poster of himself in the front window of his office, but did the media comment on that?????

    John Key and the media are gunning for David Cunliffe – he is going to need all his smarts to win this race. I hope he has braced himself for the onslaught. Who said the problem was the Labour Party fighting itself – no it’s John Key dissing you DC!!

    • karol 25.1
      27 August 2013 at 7:10 pm

      Gower is really trying his best to undermine Cunliffe. He mentioned the Cunliffe painting yesterday at the Cunliffe press conference, and he slipped an image of it into his report tonight, plus smearing Cunliffe re the “Man Ban” – using it to smear Cunliffe as doing anything to get into power.

      It must be aggravating to Gower, after his campaign against Cunliffe at last year’s conference, Cunliffe is back in the contest again.

      • GregJ 25.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 7:28 pm

        I dipped back in to the NZ media coverage of the Labour leadership over the last few days – the reporting was absolutely dire – trite, trivial and tasteless.

        Having lived overseas for the last three years you tend to forget how poorly served New Zealand is by its media – both print and television (there is still some good Radio out there). It is no wonder when I return home that I am confronted by family & friends so ill-informed about their own country (let alone the rest of the world).

        S&*t – I live in the Middle East and the media here is better than the pulp New Zealanders are served up (and you know that is saying something!)

  26. Appleboy 26
    27 August 2013 at 8:09 pm

    What do you think about a broadcasting standards complaint? the treatment of Robertson and Cunliffe are not fair and balanced, and would not stand up to a reasonable person’s scrutiny of balance.

    • karol 26.1
      27 August 2013 at 8:18 pm

      Actually, that’s worth considering. How much time after a broadcast does one need to complain?

      • Hanswurst 26.1.1
        27 August 2013 at 8:40 pm

        I think that would be very unwise. Being associated with a broadcasting standards complaint (even if they didn’t bring the complaint themselves) can really backfire on politicians. Firstly, the fact that it is an MP’s job to frame issues and put their message across lays them open to the criticism that it was their inability to do that successfully which led to them being misrepresented. Secondly, the fact that they can make statements under parliamentary privilege leaves them more open than most to being examined and smeared for issues of fairness and balance on their own part. It would all be cobblers, of course, but it wouldn’t make them any more electable.

        The only time an MP could profit from a complaint in a high-profile situation like this would be if an outright and deliberate lie could be proven on the part of a reporter.

        • karol 26.1.1.1
          27 August 2013 at 8:54 pm

          Good points, Hanswurst. I’m thinking Gower may self destruct before too long anyway.

          • Anne 26.1.1.1.1
            27 August 2013 at 10:17 pm

            Within 20 days of the broadcast karol.

            After receiving the complaint they will contact the broadcaster in question for a response. The complainant receives a copy of the response and has 20 more days to respond. If the complainant does not withdraw his/her complaint at that point the BSA will make further inquiries of the broadcaster then reach a judgement. That can take a further 20 or more days – sometimes longer because they only meet every six weeks. So the whole process can end up taking 3 months from start to finish. Nevertheless if you know you have a strong case it’s worth it… even though the BSA is a pretty lily-livered outfit and more often than not comes down on the side of the broadcaster.

            That’s what happened to me when I laid a complaint over the Hobbit Affair a few years back. They actually agreed with every point I made but still came down on the side of the broadcaster concerned – and for a reason that wasn’t really relevant to the original complaint.

  27. vto 27
    27 August 2013 at 8:34 pm

    Smell the fear.

    Key can see the pinnacle of a third term but has this horrible gnawing feeling that he will never get there now.

    oh the poor man

    • felix 27.1
      28 August 2013 at 8:37 am

      He’s even started setting the backdrop for his failure by lowering expectations. He was quoted recently saying winning a third term was “notoriously difficult” or some such.

      Of course that’s bullshit. In fact if he loses this one, he’ll be the first ever National PM to not win a third term.

  28. Colonial Viper 28
    27 August 2013 at 8:57 pm

    Garner interviews Cunliffe – and says that Cunliffe is the man with the economics needed to win the Election.

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/David-Cunliffe-with-Duncan-Garner/tabid/506/articleID/37525/Default.aspx

  29. Tracey 29
    28 August 2013 at 7:41 am

    Maybe Garner is flexing his muscle against his younger protégé (Gower). It’s hard to see Garner coming to the above conclusion for any other reason.

    Garner versus Gower

    Now THERE’S a contest.

    • Colonial Viper 29.1
      28 August 2013 at 10:07 am

      gower’s a smart enough guy. He could – if he wanted – come up with some of the best political and critical journalism in the country. Relevant questions, relevant framing, relevant background.

  30. Takere 30
    28 August 2013 at 8:38 am

    Well yesterday…looks like Jonesee came out on top again! Cunliffe got caught out in the media for plagiarism and Grant got owned by PinoKeyo over unemployment numbers plus 1 and 3 MP’s applying for Shearers old job! What an embarrassing performance from the anointed one!

      • Takere 30.1.1
        28 August 2013 at 9:02 am

        And Cunliffe loses the next election if he gets through this contest and that’ll be the end of the Labour party. More overzealous supporters helping out on twitter …..Cunliffe for Leader account on twitter which had been sledging Mr Cunliffe’s rivals – who it dubbed “beltway Grant and porno Shane” and tweeting in support of Mr Cunliffe. That’s more ammo for Pinokeyo! You guys are running a great campaign for the messiah! Keep up the good work! Haha!

  31. Chooky 31
    28 August 2013 at 9:12 am

    @ Takere….completely the opposite of what you say…Cunliffe wins the next election!…thrashes Key and Nact!…. and the Labour Party become a viable force for the future …standing alongside the Greens and Mana and Winnie

    Jonesee and you retire to the smoko room where you ……?….watch the “geldings”?

  32. Takere 32
    28 August 2013 at 9:30 am

    You silly old Chook. You need counselling?? Must be a woman’s thing?? Fixated on yourself and obsessed with how your gender is perceived in the big wide world. I’m sure there’s medication that can be prescribed for that. That 5% of swing voters split 3 ways won’t win the election!

    • Pasupial 32.1
      28 August 2013 at 9:58 am

      @ Takere

      “Must be a woman’s thing?? Fixated on yourself and obsessed with how your gender is perceived in the big wide world.”

      Shane Jones: the misogynistic candidate for misogynists.

    • Colonial Viper 32.2
      28 August 2013 at 10:05 am

      There’s 800,000 non-vote out there to motivate Takere.

      That’s 40% more on top of those who did vote in 2011.

      Fuck your “5% swing vote”.

      • Tracey 32.2.1
        28 August 2013 at 10:10 am

        according to Takere they are all going to vote labour if Jones becomes leader.

      • Takere 32.2.2
        28 August 2013 at 1:33 pm

        CV. You obviously haven’t bothered looking at the results of 2011 or tracked the reliable polls, Pundits & RM’s. If you did, you’d know how many people didn’t vote and also the voting patterns in the run-up to the election & on the day. It might help.

        • weka 32.2.2.1
          28 August 2013 at 1:41 pm

          What’s happened to WaiTakere Man?! This beltway shit won’t go down too well with the Jones’ crowd.

    • Chooky 32.3
      28 August 2013 at 11:04 am

      @ Takere….squawk!!!! squawk!…..much mirth along the perches …it is really a question of how the public perceives Jonesee (and you) in the smoko room …more mirth

      …..I dont think your publicity pitch is a great vote winner ….especially for the 50% women voters…who want someone who is a professional politician as Leader( Cunliffe)

      ….not a self-indulgent old fashioned, middle- aged male who is obsessed with porn and geldings ….and does not seem to have much else to offer

      …it aint COOL …and it aint 21st century

      • Tracey 32.3.1
        28 August 2013 at 11:09 am

        takere is a parody. he is no more a Jones supporter than you or I.

      • Takere 32.3.2
        28 August 2013 at 1:40 pm

        And I agree, but for fucksake get over it. Or Kill off the internet/DVD’s. Everybody go to church and lets segregate men from women to stop that behaviour? Isn’t that what the Catholics and the rest did and we ended up with kiddie fiddlers and nuns abusing women that they were responsible for? You know women watch porn too? Or you can learn from it ….. was there a fulla a while ago and said something about cheeks? Not Tame Iti’s version.

        • weka 32.3.2.1
          28 August 2013 at 1:44 pm

          Hard to figure if that is outright tr0lling or you are just incredibly stupid and ignorant when it comes to issues of sexuality, child abuse and porn.

        • North 32.3.2.2
          30 August 2013 at 6:39 am

          @ Takere……..you’re losing it bro’. Felicity for your mate Jones is fine but tending to ugly cheerleading in favour of a guy whose major claim to fame is you-know-what and a peculiar mix of affected “street”, affected “smoko-room”, and not-affected imperiousness……..sorry, it just doesn’t cut the mustard. In short, Jones is a useless (right-wing) bugger who’s not past engaging cheap machinations for the sake of it. Hone’s coming out for Jones looks like an ill-conceived application of whanaungatanga.

    • Don't worry. Be happy. 32.4
      28 August 2013 at 12:06 pm

      Wow. That’s nasty! The Blog version of bullying and bashing…What’s Shane Jones got to say about supporters like you Takere?

  33. Delia 33
    28 August 2013 at 10:28 pm

    When National people crack on about Herne Bay and they do, it just shows they are miffed that a Labour MP would actually live there…it wrecks their ‘they are poor after hand outs’ myths. It is about the only thing they can ‘get’ David on, —where he lives. How pathetic.

  34. Phil 34
    29 August 2013 at 3:45 pm

    The notion that Labour in Opposition is somehow inherently more divided than National really is nonsense. National, at the best of times, has always been split between its traditional rural conservatives and its radical urban neo-liberals – and give National five minutes in Opposition and those divisions become screamingly apparent.

    Citation needed?

    I’m struggling to think of incidents during the English-Brash-Key opposition era where the Nats publicly displayed the kind of disunity and disorganisation that appeared in the final days of the Goff leadership. I mean, before the 2011 election the short-list of Cunliffe, Shearer and Co were sitting down to interviews touted as ‘profiles of the next leader of the Labour party’.

  35. Aotearoean 35
    29 August 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Cunliffe to win with Sua as his deputy.What a combination. South and West combined.

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