Someone please give Patrick Gower a hug

62 comments on “Someone please give Patrick Gower a hug ”

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1. Muttonbird 1

   18 May 2017 at 12:31 pm

   He’s still upset he didn’t score a hit on Willie Jackson.
2. WILD KATIPO 2

   18 May 2017 at 12:42 pm

   And while some have said Labour hasn’t made a noise about opposing the TTP, they actually have opposed it when Key was busy trying to slam that one through .

   ( I wonder how much the conference in Auckland , the policing and the Ministers travel fees and related expenditures cost us for all that …) .

   The reality is that both NZ First and the Greens have been stridently vocal against the TTPA. Both future coalition partners of the coming Labour led govt.

   I think Bill English should stop wasting the taxpayers money on these dead in the water TTPA negotiations.

   We don’t want it.

   We’ve spoken.
   • mordecai 2.1

     19 May 2017 at 11:48 am

     1. It is the TPP not the TTP.
     2. Whose ‘we’?
     3. Labour is traditionally a pro-trade party. The TPP discussions actually began on their watch. Their recent opposition to the TPP is cynical and, frankly, idiotic.
     4. The TPP will go ahead, with or without the US. I suspect eventually it will be with.
3. Bill 3

   18 May 2017 at 1:05 pm

   I read somewhere (the Herald? Stuff?) that concessions like those made around pharmac are now locked in and ‘open’ to the US whether or not it becomes a signatory.

   So the TTP may well be dead, but some of the things the negotiations spawned will continue to live and kick.
   • WILD KATIPO 3.1

     18 May 2017 at 1:31 pm

     Indeed , and this latest attempt at a USA -less TTPA is being conducted with the notion that the USA will eventually come back into the fold at a later date.

     I would say there are some pretty powerful self interest groups that are funding , planning and waiting in the wings for the fall of Donald J Trump.

     Such as the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry group that was charged with drawing up much of the terms to be ratified before Congress for one.

     Kim Dotcom could tell us all about that I’m sure…
     • Bill 3.1.1

       18 May 2017 at 1:48 pm

       My understanding from the snippet I read was that it doesn’t matter whether the US come to the party or not now. They get to enjoy the benefits flowing off the back of the pharmac compromises (and possibly others too) because they (the pharmac ones) were to apply to both signatories and non-signatories alike.

       I guess the way is open for the US to engage in a 21C version of gunboat trade diplomacy now – no compromise.

       Actually, that’s not right, is it? The NZ government has done the gunboat bit all on its own!
       • WILD KATIPO 3.1.1.1

         18 May 2017 at 2:19 pm

         Hehe… I didn’t want to say it but…

         Lil’ ole New Zealand was the ‘ test case’ for the free market experiment… what better country than ours to launch and then push the envelope from…

         Squeaky clean , ‘ nobody’s ever heard of ‘ New Zealand….

         And no I wont include Hugh Prices sterling historical account of the Mont Pelerin Society..

         Bugger it ,… I will. Its relevant .

         100 %.

         If only to educate and inform our fellow New Zealanders born as millennials. And that’s why I always include it. For the education of those born post 1984.

         New Right Fight – Who are the New Right?
         http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/pageA.html
       • Stunned Mullet 3.1.1.2

         18 May 2017 at 2:34 pm

         There was an extraordinary amount of uninformed scaremongering about medicine cost and supply in NZ during the TPPA fracas.
         • WILD KATIPO 3.1.1.2.1

           18 May 2017 at 2:40 pm

           And there was an extraordinary amount of undisclosed skulduggery going on during the negotiations of the TTPA that deliberately kept the public out of the loop as well.

           And one of them was the Investor States Disputes Settlement.

           Democracy has taken 500 hundred blood soaked years to come about.

           It wont be given away that easily.
           • Stunned Mullet 3.1.1.2.1.1

             18 May 2017 at 2:57 pm

             That’s some fine hyperbolic bombast WK.
             • WILD KATIPO …

               18 May 2017 at 3:24 pm

               Bombast?

               No more than I find so many of those who support National in their dogmatic parroted statements. The difference being, is empirical evidence aside , – National and its duplicitous policy’s are now being laid bare .

               Lets take it a step further , National and its globalist neo liberalism.

               Its falling apart. It aint what people signed up for when they voted.

               ‘ hyperbolic bombast ‘ ?

               Nah.

               You haven’t been paying attention to worldwide trends. Brexit. Trump. Do you really think you can carry on rubbing peoples noses in shit before they finally turn on you?

               Here’s a wee story to illustrate.

               Our family always had dogs. Lots of them. One of them was a German shepherd. He was loyal and would give his life for you. But my father used to beat him with a 3 foot long inch thick alkathene pipe. When he had a few too many beers. I heard that dog yelping and screaming under the house for a full five minutes.

               Then I heard a low deep chested snarling growl.

               That dog had had enough . And he was fighting back for what he perceived was for his life against the natural pack loyalty’s he had for his pack leader…

               The beatings stopped from then on after. It never happened again.

               That dog was my faithful companion and I never felt afraid when he was with me deep in the bush in the Waitakere’s / Huia where I grew up. We were a team.

               And the same goes for trying to push the people of NZ. You fuck with them bad enough they’ll round on you.

               ‘ hyperbolic bombast’ ?

               Nah. Its called survival , mate.
               • Stunned Mullet …

                 18 May 2017 at 3:30 pm

                 Now you’re just being a flibbertigibbet.
                 • WILD KATIPO …

                   18 May 2017 at 3:53 pm

                   And your an idiot.

                   Anything more you’d like to add?
                   • Stunned Mullet …

                     18 May 2017 at 4:43 pm

                     “And your an idiot.”

                     Oh the irony
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     18 May 2017 at 4:55 pm

                     Only in your own mind. You set yourself up for it. It was a simple illustration of authoritarian abuse that sailed completely over your head. Therefore you remain , … simply an idiot and a dullard.
                   • McFlock …

                     18 May 2017 at 5:07 pm

                     WK, I think the irony might have been in your choice of “your”.

                     A variation of muphry’s law 🙂
                   • WILD KATIPO …

                     18 May 2017 at 5:24 pm

                     Aye that might be a point,… but the analogy is clear – that the TTPA WOULD NOT be good for the majority of NZ workers.

                     1) We would have to accept cheap produce that would threaten our industry’s / future industry’s and workers.

                     2) We would have to accept exorbitant prices with little recourse for cheaper products – and without the ability to include trade tariffs to regulate that industry and the TTPA selected importers.

                     3) We would have to bow to a globalist panel of corporate lawyers having the audacity to take our democratically elected govt to their ‘pseudo court ‘ because of the ‘ Investor State Dispute Settlement’.

                     4) And in view of the above points , – negating the full context of having a true ‘sovereign ‘ nation state and elected govt by the people . Which is of course , – anti democratic by its very definition .

                     * I might add, that trade tariffs were abolished quite awhile back. If anything , – they need to be reestablished. One of the reasons NZ’S manufacturing base was decimated was a direct result of trade tariffs being abandoned. Yet they persist in the USA , England and many other so called ‘ neo liberal economy’s’ in various forms , – so why should WE be any different???
               • garibaldi …

                 18 May 2017 at 4:35 pm

                 Wild Katipo, quite frankly I wouldn’t include stories like how your father treated your dog. Shame on him. People like that really piss me off. No excuse for it.
                 • WILD KATIPO …

                   18 May 2017 at 4:53 pm

                   That’s right .

                   And exactly the point.

                   And if even a dog can rear up and demonstrate when its had enough – how much moreso can a people of a democratic country ?

                   And that was EXACTLY the point.

                   Its called an analogy or ‘ parable’.
         • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2.2

           18 May 2017 at 2:43 pm

           No, really the wasn’t. There was a lot of BS from the right-wing about how great it would be though.
           • Stunned Mullet 3.1.1.2.2.1

             18 May 2017 at 3:25 pm

             I can’t recall anyone saying how great the TPPA would be for medicine supply and prices in NZ … perhaps you could paste a link or two ?
             • Draco T Bastard …

               18 May 2017 at 3:33 pm

               Why?

               I was talking about overall. You’re the one trying to limit it to just medicines and all of the research showed that we would be worse off there.
             • WILD KATIPO …

               18 May 2017 at 4:06 pm

               @ Stunned sprat

               Perhaps you should say why the TTPA would be so great for NZ and specifically , – what YOU would gain from it.

               Then juxtapose that with the harm it would do to other NZ’ers – such as the unemployed, and low waged workers and those reliant on expensive drug therapy ….
             • Tautoko Mangō Mata …

               18 May 2017 at 4:09 pm

               Here’s a link on ISDS- Investor State Dispute Settlement-

               In recent years, ISDS provisions of investment treaties, free trade and other agreements have increasingly provided an investment opportunity to make money by speculating on lawsuits, winning huge awards and forcing foreign governments, and taxpayers, to pay. Financial speculators have increasingly purchased corporations deemed capable of profitably bringing winnable ISDS claims, sometimes using ‘shell companies’.
               Some hedge funds and private equity firms even finance ISDS cases as third parties, with ISDS itself the raison d’etre for such investments. Such ‘third-party funding’ of ISDS claims has been expanding quickly as financing such claims has proven to be very lucrative.

               http://www.ipsnews.net/2017/04/dispute-settlement-becomes-speculative-financial-asset/
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 18 May 2017 at 5:40 pm

                 Well done , Tautoko Mangō Mata

                 You’ve shown these arseholes up for what they are.

                 Thanking you.
             • Johan …

               18 May 2017 at 4:47 pm

               Do your own bloody homework.
4. Phil 4

   18 May 2017 at 1:29 pm

   In my view, it is not really TPP without the United States. It is the “TPP in name only” or “TPP-lite”. It may soon end up on its deathbed again.

   The original TPP negotiations between NZ, Singapore, and Chile (and later Brunei) began in 2002. It was supposed to be an agreement between small open economies.

   A TPP without the US is not ‘in name only’. It’s exactly what the intent of original agreement was supposed to be.
   • WILD KATIPO 4.1

     18 May 2017 at 1:50 pm

     Interesting,… so why on earth did the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry become the body in the US to draw up so much of the terms to be submitted to Congress … were the USA always the Johnny come lately’s ?

     Or was the USA always involved but kept in the shadows , – so they knew they had to tread carefully and do things by increments because they anticipated there would be mass protest against corporate domination over governments and workers?

     Or was it a deal brokered behind closed doors like the TTPA seemed to be for most of its natural born lifespan,… and just when did they think it was such a smart idea to include such things as the ‘Investor-state dispute settlement ‘ mechanism ?

     Was that on the minds of just NZ, Singapore, and Chile ?… or was it actually – in keeping with TTPA negotiations with its media black outs and non disclosure, – a forewarning to its real extent of anti sovereignty legislation ?
     • Phil 4.1.1

       18 May 2017 at 3:24 pm

       The US came into the TPP ‘tent’ late in Bush’s 2nd term, and well after the core principles on trade tarrifs between the original members were settled.

       http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-origins-and-evolution-of-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp/5357495
       • WILD KATIPO 4.1.1.1

         18 May 2017 at 3:40 pm

         ‘ and well after the core principles on trade tarrifs between the original members were settled.’

         Yet were abridged and added to when the USA came onboard – as it was always intended the USA would join.
5. Dorothy Bulling 5

   18 May 2017 at 1:38 pm

   Blinglish gives me the impression that he would like to turn to Key and say, “am I doing it right John?” He is no more a PM than I am a man!
   • Whispering Kate 5.1

     18 May 2017 at 4:08 pm

     Don’t think so Dorothy – Blinglish is much more dangerous than Key. Why do you think Key endorsed him as PM. He is a globalist through to his bones, has been in the game for so long he has skin on it. He is also a policy wonk and totally dedicated to globalization. He is in it for the end game unlike Key who was just in it for the bells and whistles. That is why he is pressing on with it – against the country’s wishes. The sooner he is out of government the better off we will be.
     • WILD KATIPO 5.1.1

       18 May 2017 at 6:25 pm

       Well said Whispering Kate .

       You are utterly onto the Bill English trail.

       It has been Bill English all along. That man. Not Key. Key was the front man , English was the motivator. English is an ideologue , and his particular brand is of the Mont Pelerin Society vintage.

       Bill English is a left over from the latter days of Rogernomic’s.

       Like a dogged wolf , this man has persevered. He has done the Rodney Hide act and the Cameron Slater act in getting in the boxing ring .

       BOTH OF THEM DID IT.

       And they did it to appeal to the common folk and advance a particular agenda.

       Globalism using neo liberalism as the delivery mechanism.

       Whether it was done under the direction of international Jesuits aka Catholicism or Jacob Frank Zionism , –

       Jacob Frank – Wikipedia
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank

       The end game remains the same . To advance the cause of globalist one world governance using economics and ‘ free trade deals’ which cripples the autonomy of the democratically elected govt’s of sovereign nations.

       And THAT’S the end game they are playing to.

       Anyone in denial of that fact denies the reality of George Bush Seniors words ” No one shall stand against our new world order and against the thousand points of light ”… said over and over again in his speeches.

       President George H.W. Bush – Points of Light – YouTube
       Video for geaorge bush senior thousand points of light you tube▶ 0:50
       

       And that ‘ thousand points of light ‘ are a direct Masonic occultist reference to outright bloody Luciferarian worship.

       Alex Jones Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove Satanic Ritual …
       Video for satanic bohemian grove▶ 2:56
       

       Regarding English as opposed to Key … ‘ He is a globalist through to his bones, has been in the game for so long he has skin on it. He is also a policy wonk and totally dedicated to globalization. He is in it for the end game unlike Key who was just in it for the bells and whistles. ‘… there could be no more truthful statement than this.

       Well done , Whispering Kate.

       You have this odious little man well pegged and exposed for what and who he actually is.

       Further proof :

       New Right Fight – Who are the New Right?
       http://www.newrightfight.co.nz/pageA.html

       Thule Society – Wikipedia
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

       Young Hitler – Excerpts Appendix | The Thule Society
       http://www.younghitler.com/thule_society.htm
       • Whispering Kate 5.1.1.1

         18 May 2017 at 8:11 pm

         Thank you Wild Katipo – its nice to know there is someone else out there who is on to the case with our Billie. Why other folks can’t see through him I find surprising. He is a secular Jesuit with all the harshness and judgmental traits they had back in the dark ages. Maybe he is a reincarnation of one of Jesuits during the heresy era who frightened the bejesus out of non-believers – I hope that gives you a chuckle.
   • Johan 5.2

     18 May 2017 at 4:53 pm

     To DB,
     Poor Bill has great difficulty formulating a coherent sentence when telling porkies. John Key never had that problem. I believe it has something to do with being raised as a Catholic choir boy.
     • The decrypter 5.2.1

       18 May 2017 at 5:08 pm

       Bill is a slow liar, jonky was a speedy liar, bill is under speed liar training in preparation for looming leaders debates.
6. McFlock 6

   18 May 2017 at 1:39 pm

   I suppose the major risk is that they keep it twitching long enough that Trump gets impeached and president pence reactivates US involvement. The US demands were the really damaging ones.

   When these 11 trade ministers meet, how many will be wanting to ease back on some of the US conditions? It might be a slightly different beast.

   The other observation I’ll make is that is Trump’s trade, diplomatic and military isolationism is giving Abe the opportunity to expand Japan’s regional influence. It’s no coincidence that Abe is (practically) unilaterally taking the electric paddles to the tpp’s chest at the same time as proposing constitutional amendments for recognition of the defense forces.
   • weka 6.1

     18 May 2017 at 1:46 pm

     Isn’t it the whole governments can be sued thing that’s the main problem? And without that bit the agreement won’t exist?
     • McFlock 6.1.1

       18 May 2017 at 2:06 pm

       The investor-state dispute settlement bits were bad, definitely. But also the intellectual property sections were so strong as to stifle innovation, there were serious concerns about how pharmac could be affected, and istr some issues around the use of foreign labour under foreign labour laws in NZ, could be mistaken on that, though.

       There were some good things around CITES and general international cooperation, good governance/anti corruption, and some human rights sections, though. And then there’s the actual tarriff thing, which some people agree with and others don’t.

       So that’s why Labour were “we’ll renegotiate the bits we don’t like”. There were some good bits in the agreement, but they were buried in some great piles of shit.
       • weka 6.1.1.1

         18 May 2017 at 2:12 pm

         Thanks for the reminder round up (haven’t thought about it in a while). I think the temptation to horse trade e.g. re pharmac, while understandable is hugely problematic because of the ISDS. If it were an actual trade agreement instead of a surrendering of sovereignty, it would make sense to try for those things.

         Bill just poked the resistance. Just in time for the election 🙂 Sometimes I think he is a plant for the forces that want the govt changed, lol.
         • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1

           18 May 2017 at 3:19 pm

           I think the ISDS might have been one of the things Labour wanted to revisit.
           • Bill 6.1.1.1.1.1

             18 May 2017 at 3:26 pm

             Well whatever it was, it doesn’t matter. Any changes have to be ratified by (I think) every other signatory. It was and is essentially a “lock-down”.
             • McFlock …

               18 May 2017 at 3:28 pm

               Yeah, but the main signatory behind the worst bits of it has pulled out 🙂
         • Bill 6.1.1.1.2

           18 May 2017 at 3:21 pm

           You know I consistently want a change to the way of government 😉
           • weka 6.1.1.1.2.1

             18 May 2017 at 3:28 pm

             lol. So it’s not true you are a plant that has infiltrated The Standard to impose your evil authoritarian RW thoughts and ways?

             Can’t believe I just called Blinglish by his first name.
             • McFlock …

               18 May 2017 at 3:31 pm

               Our Bill is far more interesting than their Bill 🙂
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 18 May 2017 at 3:41 pm

                 L0L !
       • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.2

         18 May 2017 at 2:35 pm

         @ McFlock

         ‘ There were some good things around CITES and general international cooperation, good governance/anti corruption, and some human rights sections, though.’

         Possibly yes,… but don’t we already have a UN ? – and don’t we already have International bodies set up for CITES? – and isn’t it a burden on each govt of each state to ensure ‘ good governance/anti corruption’ measures ?

         Why do we need a panel of global corporate’s to decide what a democratically elected govt of a sovereign nation state deems ‘good governance ‘ ? I’m referring of course to the Investor state dispute settlement section.

         The fuck with corporate’s !!! – they do what WE bloody tell them to do – not the other way round !!! And if WE want to slap on a tariff because their cheap imported shit is hurting our industry’s and our workers – they can go shaft themselves. I find that aspect incredibly offensive.

         Anyways . That’s my rant and my main objections.

         And I’m happy to be described a moderate social democrat nationalist and totally unapologetic for being so .
         • McFlock 6.1.1.2.1

           18 May 2017 at 3:06 pm

           well, I seem to recall that the CITES and other obligations required the tpp members to take specific steps to meet the broader UN issues. Which is good because consistent regulation limits the ability to exploit gaps, like corporates do with different tax codes to create dutch sandwiches etc.

           Reinforcing obligations with multiple agreements isn’t a problem, and increases the motive to stick with them. I reckon you might be running up the wrong alley there.
           • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.2.1.1

             18 May 2017 at 3:44 pm

             ‘ I reckon you might be running up the wrong alley there.’

             Possibly , but why do we need TTPA signatory’s to endorse this?

             Seems to me to be more of a ‘sanitizing ‘ bit of lolly to mask the real intent.
             • McFlock …

               18 May 2017 at 3:49 pm

               Well, it depends how much of it was in before the yanks jumped in and started waving their dicks around.

               If a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, then conversely it’s quite possible that the current turdgarden we call the TPP will grow some nice veges if we water it regularly and let the smell disappear. The seeds are already in it 😉
               • WILD KATIPO …

                 18 May 2017 at 4:13 pm

                 And that’s the problem , due to the non disclosure to the media and the public, we cannot gauge it. And if its that cloaked in secrecy ,… even that bodes evil tidings for those who wish transparency in democracy.

                 Hardly a recipe for public input.

                 Which is probably why there was such general mobilization against it.

                 All that aside,.. as it was , there was more than enough shady deals being mooted to warrant those widespread protests in the first place. That aint how we do democracy.
   • WILD KATIPO 6.2

     18 May 2017 at 2:04 pm

     @ McFlock

     ‘ I suppose the major risk is that they keep it twitching long enough that Trump gets impeached and president pence reactivates US involvement.’

     I think you’re onto it.

     And as Bill said ,… ‘ it doesn’t matter whether the US come to the party or not now. They get to enjoy the benefits flowing off the back of the pharmac compromises (and possibly others too) because they (the pharmac ones) were to apply to both signatories and non-signatories alike.’

     They will not stop trying or ever give it up. And if it doesn’t succeed in this name or form ,- it will eventually in another. So we cant rest on the laurels at all. Rust never sleeps and neither to these bastards. And if they get a temporary set back they will settle for an abridged version until such times as they can lock it in in all its fullness.

     We are dealing with free market globalists who view national sovereignty as an anathema and impediment to their version of a centralized power and economic structure – yet one which is flexible enough and multi national to deny the obvious label of being an obvious centralized ‘ totalitarian state’.

     Those grey people busily working away in the ‘City of London’ square mile have a lot to answer for…
     • Bill 6.2.1

       18 May 2017 at 3:16 pm

       This is a bit tangential, but you’re touching on why I get so pissed off at the sheer idiocy of just jumping on anything that feeds an anti-Trump thing. The fuckers stoking it up are the very same ones that people in the US and elsewhere have sent a clear message of “anything but you” to.

       I commented in the run-up to the US election that if Trump won, the opportunity would be there for the left to organise and mobilise, and that the danger to that would be coming from the wound licking democrats and their fellow travelers seeking to rehabilitate themselves.

       Seems that danger’s risen up now – eg, vacuous ‘Russia meddling’ reports, bullshit CW reports, endless stream of baseless accusations feeding into general jagged finger pointing…and no-one’s calling it.

       Which is potentially going to leave us with a ‘nice’ situation in the US whereby the forces of “anything but Trump” (the ‘establishment’ as personified by Cain/Clinton et al) are aligned against the “anything but the status quo” (swathes of the electorate) and “the left” will be nowhere to be seen.

       Oh. And we all get fucked in the ensuing bullshit of onerous trade deals coming into being – whether pushed by the finance friendly liberals or the weird authoritarians
7. Gabby 7

   18 May 2017 at 1:41 pm

   So the yankers get what they wanted and give up nothing? Bingles you’re a fricking genius.
8. weka 8

   18 May 2017 at 1:46 pm

   Paddy being a try hard.
9. Incognito 9

   18 May 2017 at 7:23 pm

   Here’s the parliamentary history of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement Amendment Bill in all its gory: https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-proposed-laws/document/00DBHOH_BILL68998_1/trans-pacific-partnership-agreement-amendment-bill

   MP in charge: McClay, Todd; Minister of Free Trade; Minister for State Part-Owned Enterprises

   Why anybody would like to revive this Frankensteinian creation is beyond me but you have to be absolutely braindead to be cheering for it. RIP NZ journalism.
   • McFlock 9.1

     18 May 2017 at 7:31 pm

     Well, it’s blinglish. After their conference tanked, this might be his only achievement as pm.

     Still, boosts the stakes in the election.
     • Incognito 9.1.1

       18 May 2017 at 7:43 pm

       Surely, posting a ‘surplus’ again next week would suffice as an ‘achievement’ …
10. rhinocrates 10

    18 May 2017 at 10:16 pm

    I wouldn’t want to give him a hug. He has the permanent expression of a rodent that’s realised that it’s just sharted.
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    19 May 2017 at 3:49 pm

    Party at Shinzo’s
12. Logicgerman 12

    19 May 2017 at 5:32 pm

    Oh what would I give to have 5 minutes of fame. I guess that is a desire.

    How about the person who reads this? In short what this blog shows. We can talk endlessly. But to change needs another character.

    Patrick is a person who wants to go up the ladder. In this world, you kill your mother to achieve this.

    Real world and fantasay world

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