States of it – Turei and Shearer

93 comments on “States of it – Turei and Shearer ”

• Comments are now closed

1. alex 1

   27 January 2013 at 3:00 pm

   Not a very substantive comment, but is anyone else sick of that stock photo of Shearer against the Green background? Something about it rings very hollow. Then again, I suppose its not like he can really claim to be a red.
2. Bill 2

   27 January 2013 at 3:03 pm

   As speeches go and as articulating vision goes and as offering promise and being inclusive goes, Metiria’s speech is absolutely streets ahead. And whereas she speaks to me and invites me to agree with her, David’s speaking at me and assigning attitudes and ways of thinking to me. And well, I don’t like feeling condescended to or patronised or any blanket assumptions being made about how I ought to think or perceive things.

   And…I would have really liked to have seen an up front and unequivocal acknowledgement of Green Party initiatives and some indication that the Labour Party was going to stop trying to assign itself the role of ‘appropriate adult’ in the Green/Labour political relationship.

   But hey.
3. Jenny 3

   27 January 2013 at 3:19 pm

   Sorry to be a pain EDDIE. But I couldn’t help noticing that in your summing up of both party’s policies you never mentioned Climate Change.

   (I hope you don’t mind me pointing this out. I previously copped a lot of swearing, verbal abuse and threats of deletion of my comments for doing so for pointing out a similiar omission by QoT.

   (But I think it is important that the Left engage in this issue relentlessly. In the coming years and decades it will be the one issue that all political parties or commenters will be judged on.)

   What comparison do you make of the respective two leaders remarks on this issue?
   • Eddie 3.1

     27 January 2013 at 3:35 pm

     Metiria talks about it extensively. Indeed, it’s the first thing she really talks about because it’s the biggest problem in the world.

     As I mentioned, Shearer made a passing comment that I didn’t really understand
     • Jenny 3.1.1

       27 January 2013 at 4:35 pm

       Metiria talks about it extensively……

       Shearer made a passing comment…..

       EDDIE

       I have gone to the trouble of extracting their comments possibly relating to the climate, to compare them. (Unfortunately I don’t know how to set them side by side like you have done with the full transcripts.)

       When set out like this, EDDY can you tell if your above statement is still correct.

       For added interest I have omitted to identify who said what. Without referring back;

       1/ Who is the speaker?

       2/ Who in your opinion talked more “extensively“?

       3/ Who in your opinion made “a passing comment“?

       There is always an excuse for why we can’t get ahead. For why we can’t be a leader in this field or that.

       For example, the National government aspires to being a fast follower when it comes to climate change.

       Hold that thought. What is a fast follower exactly?

       Does it mean that if we follow too fast we become … what…an accidental leader?

       But a leader with no clue about where they’re going.

       That’s not good enough with an issue that is so important to our planet, and our country.

       We deserve better than that.

       I refuse to accept that for New Zealand.

       And so do the Kiwis I meet…….
       ……I’ve spoken of a clean, green, clever economy many times.

       We need our environment to drive our economic success and our economy to keep our environment clean.

       The reality is we will not create more better paying jobs by simply exporting more milk powder.

       We’ve been talking about it since Mike Moore invented lamb burgers.

       Our future prosperity will be carved out by backing the talent of businesses working in high tech, or the innovations of those adding value to our natural resources.

       It will be built by those that see the promise and opportunity of a clean, green future.

       Great ideas are emerging from organisations like Pure Advantage, and from thousands of innovative can-do Kiwis.

       A thriving manufacturing sector is at the heart of my vision. That’s why our manufacturing inquiry that starts tomorrow is an important first step.

       But the commitment is lacking from government.

       Well I am committed to this future.

       There is simply no other option.

       That is why I have asked my colleagues to develop a clear plan to diversify our economy.

       A plan we can put in front of New Zealanders, not airy fairy concepts.

       The planet is suffering massive bio-diversity loss. Eco-systems are under more pressure than ever.

       The hurt of climate change is biting. Extreme weather events, storms, cyclones, droughts and fires are getting worse.

       I want to acknowledge the people of Samoa, Fiji and Australia who have suffered for extreme weather over this summer.

       The people of the Pacific can realistically wonder if their islands will even exist in a few years; threatened by a problem they did not create.

       It’s terrifying.

       But the tide is beginning to turn on the destructive thinking that has led to climate change.

       Here in New Zealand the will of the people has turned it already……

       …..The ***** Party will offer New Zealanders policies full of opportunities to build a better Aotearoa New Zealand, to give everyone a decent start in life, a good job with a living wage and an abundant environment to be proud of.

       Together we are powerful and passionate.

       Together, we will build a caring country that honours our past, makes good green change in the present and has our gaze set firmly on the opportunities of the future…..

       Put your pens down, and bring your paper with your answers to the front of the class.
       • xtasy 3.1.1.1

         28 January 2013 at 1:19 am

         Jenny – You will well know that NZ, no matter what past government, has largely only paid lip service to climate change, environmental and alternative energy issues.

         I would recommend every Kiwi, to make a trip to Central Europe, to Germany, Holland, Denmark and other places, and see with their own eyes, what highly industrialised and developed countries there are doing in that regards.

         Sadly few are able to, few know what goes on (even in other countries, incl. the UK, yes even Mainland China now), so we have this endless continuation of the buy and turf mentality, use and abuse mentality, of driving cars everywhere, so actually NZ is one of the highest per capita carbon emitters in the whole world. Education may help, information may help, but sadly governments and the people in general, they do not seem to be much aware, concerned and do not give a damn about the future.

         It is always someone else’s fault, and it would not make a difference, if little NZ may do more, is the common excuse. Others flatly deny it, along the thinking of the flat earth society minded.

         NZ though could be a stunning success, also for developing, and exporting, environmentally friendly technology and services. It would be seen in the world as a great example for the better change, for enlightenment and progress. Sadly, too few here in NZ are aware, interested and care.

         So no wonder Shearer only makes some comments in passing. Metiria is more sincere and committed, as that is what a Green Party member bloody should be. I only wish they push more for the economic and business feasibility of projects, and then it will take off something huge. Ideas are good, but without realising them, to put them into practice, there is a risk of losing credibility.

         I though give Shearer little credit, he does NOT convince me. Someone else wrote his speech for him anyway. He is just like one of the old men on the balcony of the Muppets Show.
   • Coronial Typer 3.2

     27 January 2013 at 3:51 pm

     Apart from relatively oblique comments from the Greens leader about home insulation and cleaning up toxic waste sites, it was stark that New Zealand’s environmental political party barely mentioned New Zealand’s environment at all.

     The best environmental example Helen Clark made to environmental awareness, quite oddly, was Nordic skiing. She showed she was ready to push into the environment herself – notably hunkered in a snow cave for a few days. That did more for her environmental positioning than bunches of speeches.

     Mere allusion from either Greens or Labour to “clean” or “green” in any variant seem to miss how we are viewed by the world. Our entire economy now depends on that. I’m not asking for more holiday snaps of course, I’m merely expecting the Greens to show why their environmental policies are important to New Zealand. Otherwise, as Metiria does in this speech, the Greens are merely positioned like Anderton and New Labour did; simply Labour with stronger policies and a higher moisture content.

     Labour’s Shearer went for populist allusions to more mythical hard done by workers; good. The Greens need to speak as the Lorax said, for the trees.
   • handle 3.3

     27 January 2013 at 4:40 pm

     “I couldn’t help noticing”

     Please try harder. For all our sakes. Reducing every discussion to the same topic is not helpful.
     • Jenny 3.3.1

       27 January 2013 at 5:34 pm

       I couldn’t help noticing… that you can’t say the name of the topic we are not discussing.

       We are in a war. Don’t forget that.
       • handle 3.3.1.1

         27 January 2013 at 5:37 pm

         We have always been at war with Eurasia.
         • Jenny 3.3.1.1.1

           27 January 2013 at 7:20 pm

           We are at war with the climate and if we don’t do something soon it will start killing us.
       • the pigman 3.3.1.2

         29 January 2013 at 2:09 am

         I thought the anonymized quotes made the point well enough, Jenny.
   • QoT 3.4

     27 January 2013 at 4:54 pm

     Sorry to be a pain, Jenny, but you “copped” a warning for derailing my post and telling me what I should write about. That’s probably why you didn’t provide a link, because once again your allegations don’t stand up to the evidence.
     • Jenny 3.4.1

       27 January 2013 at 5:25 pm

       I am far to civil to air your foul mouthed abuse and uncalled for threats. And if I may say without having to endure another threatening and foul mouthed response. In my genteel and humble opinion, such behaviour exposes the weakness of your position.
       • QoT 3.4.1.1

         28 January 2013 at 7:46 am

         In my opinion, attacking a woman’s use of unladylike language is a bullshit patriarchal derail, and trying to make yourself out as superior because you’re “genteel” is wonderfully classist, which puts your continuing crusade to demand that everyone pay attention to your favourite issue and ONLY your favourite issue into a fucking interesting context.
         • handle 3.4.1.1.1

           28 January 2013 at 4:21 pm

           We shall have cucumber sandwiches at the next Country Womens Institute bash.
           • QoT 3.4.1.1.1.1

             28 January 2013 at 6:40 pm

             As long as they’re properly prepared. Can you believe that at the last Institute meeting the cucumbers had not even been seeded? The audacity quite affronted one.
             • handle …

               28 January 2013 at 7:05 pm

               So hard to get good help nowadays.
4. Coronial Typer 4

   27 January 2013 at 3:28 pm

   Shearer has made clear that merely exporting milk powder is not enough. But if National are prepared to become shareholders in irrigation companies, will Labour propose to be a shareholder in milk processing companies? Each step deeper into the commercial world gets more fraught and hotter as taxpayer funds compete more directly against private investors. This is the right fight to have; what is the nature of agency and intervention into promoting higher value from New Zealand products. I sincerely hope Shearer has the team to to it – this challenge was largely absent in the Greens address.

   Shearer has laid a major challenge at the feet of Jacinda Ardern there with Social Welfare. The policy generation beyond Working for Families is one which needs to aggregate into the public mind all social welfare – including retirement welfare – as the full sum of what a collective progressive government can afford from what we all collectively provide. This does not divide us into “makers”and “takers”, but summarises precisely the ambit and affordability of a new and much smaller state than even the one Clark left.

   In that sense, he was fully right to direct attention beyond state agency to local heroes who have inspired and changed this country for good. Transformation will take far more than the state itself can foreseeably ever do.

   If housing construction itself is Shearer’s one great roll of the dice for the first term, however, he consigns our urban economies into yet another sugar-rush, culminating in yet another economic binge-purge cycle. Whether Labour’s tax modelling shows a government can simultaneously temper real estate capitalism and redirect the productive economy remains, of course, to be seen. Big horses need strong reins.

   For me the main virtue of the Greens speech was to call out the NGOs who have been inspired by the Referendum petition. There is more to politics in this country than the Beehive and parliament. Progressive movements need to aggregate in order to sustain positive change beyond one (maybe two) heroic interventionist term. Auckland’s government is now the second government of New Zealand, even though Christchurch is getting full and deserved attention. Auckland’s social welfare, transport, and housing needs will shortly be 40% of New Zealand’s needs, by population.

   I would have liked either of them to say properly whether they could work together; every poll says they are going to need each other. A little generosity is not hard.

   I also wanted something deeper out of them: why are they in this fight as people, what drives them on, how are they inspired, what is their grounding. Thank God neither of them went for cheap jokes. Neither reached like Obama, but they were a country mile from the facile Mr Key.
   • Monique Angel 4.1

     27 January 2013 at 5:31 pm

     Shearer has made it more than clear that he is going to attack primary industry. This will kill off Labour. How the fuck can you get votes by attacking the basis of what made New Zealand great, Talk about a clusterfuck. Historically I was a Labour voter and the puppets that follow Helen Clark just would make me want to cry if I wasn’t the type to have a strong whisky instead.
     http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/shearer-wages-war-on-primary-industry.html
     • millsy 4.1.1

       27 January 2013 at 5:38 pm

       So you think that farmers should be given free reign to poison our water ways then. Fucking bitch.

       IF I SEE YOU TRY AND POLLUTE OUR WATER WAYS I WILL MAKE SURE YOU ARE PUNISHED. I WILL MAKE YOU DRINK THE WATER
       • Monique Angel 4.1.1.1

         27 January 2013 at 6:13 pm

         No
         • millsy 4.1.1.1.1

           27 January 2013 at 6:18 pm

           What, you wont drink it, or you dont think our farmers should pollute our water ways.
           • Monique Angel 4.1.1.1.1.1

             27 January 2013 at 6:41 pm

             I don’t think farmers should pollute our waterways and I’ll drink anything made with grey goose vodka, a maraschino cherry and a small colorful umbrella.
             • xtasy …

               28 January 2013 at 1:23 am

               Mix the cow manure and piss with your vodka then, must be a real good kicking cocktail that!?
     • handle 4.1.2

       27 January 2013 at 5:39 pm

       How does investing in more modern industries mean “attacking” older ones?
     • Pete 4.1.3

       27 January 2013 at 5:44 pm

       There are four industrial sectors. Historically the primary sector was – and remains – important to this country. We also have a large tertiary sector providing services. But there’s scope for growth in the secondary sector, processing primary products and in the quaternary sector creating valuable intellectual property and doing the R&D to create a better return in the other sectors.

       Sticking to our knitting in the primary sector is not going to serve us well in the long run, especially when volatile commodities prices and the high dollar means that the prosperity generated in the primary sector is unpredictable. Diversification of our economy into a 21st century entity, rather than a 19th century one, offsets those risks and it also makes use of the surplus of human capital we have at our disposal.
     • Coronial Typer 4.1.4

       27 January 2013 at 5:55 pm

       Yes there was that strange comment a while ago by Nash about whether farmers pay their dues in taxes. Shearer should be razor-focussed that the primary industries are where we are economically set (supported together with some creative and niche manufacturing) for the foreseeable future. Can’t see any from the full set of blue regional seats won back yet.
     • xtasy 4.1.5

       28 January 2013 at 1:32 am

       This is an idiot comment, excuse me. Shearer only made clear that a focus on primary industry, which happens to now largely be dairy production, cannot be enough to move NZ into better economic circumstances. That is a fair statement by Shearer, and while I do not think much of him, I must defend him on that.

       We are experiencing an intesification of agriculture, that is resulting in levels of pollution, due to intensive fertiliser use, pesticide and herbicide use, increased affluents from more intense use of cattle farms, and so forth. There are natural limits to what the environment can handle. I come from a farming background myself, and I witnessed the radical changes due to intensification of industrialised farming in Europe. Wildlife largely disappeared, insects and flowers and so forth disappeared, that used to be around for centuries, and the increased monoculture destroyed heaps.

       Only over the last 10 to 20 years have governments in Europe slowly started to realise the immense damage to nature there, so they are now all pro environmental measures, which shows positive results.

       It utterly dismays me, that NZ wants to go down a way, that has done so much environmental damage overseas, and intensify, so that we have more cows, cattle, more dairy production, to earn dollars for farmers and exporters, but that ruins the land, rivers and lakes. It is insane and bloody stupid. I also think you live overseas, in California, and the Central Valley agriculture there has also led to immense environmental damages.

       It seems you are all for high incomes, exports, no matter what, and that is while only a selected few will benefit anyway. You better get a reality check and have a look at intensive farming, horticulture and fisheries to learn what is really going on, before you slag off with cheap comments here, dear Monique.
       • xtasy 4.1.5.1

         28 January 2013 at 1:42 am

         Further to my comment, what NZ must do is to develop quality products from primary farming products. You can do much more with milk solids and ingredients, than to turn it into milk powder and baby formula. I suggest NZ dairy industry do a study tour around various contries in Europe, the Middle East and elsewhere, to see what else can be produced.

         Although there has over years been a good improvement in dairy production, diversification and better quality, I think much more needs and can be done, to produce highest quality end products here, which could and should develop quality brands and could earn top dollars overseas.

         What about Emmental Cheese, other cheeses common in Europe, about curd, custards of different kinds, cheeses of many facets and types, better, more diverse yoghurt ranges, milk that also includes “butter milk”, and so forth. There are dairy products in Easter Europe and Russia that are not even known here. There are markets that can be gained access to, but without the product and quality, they will not even look at NZ.

         OK we got further from the 3 types of cheddar and the blocks of fake Edam here, but most is produced at inferior levels, highly expensive and is not meeting the international demand. So wake up, dairy sector, get cracking, talk to overseas specialists, hire them and produce stuff that is sellable and earns us.

         Asia is growing, and I am sure they want more than baby formula.

         With quality rather than quantity, NZ would become a Switzerland of dairy production, rather than a US type mass production of low and basic level products. That is what I can see and expect. But does anybody in government or for that sake the opposition have such vision???
         • Foreign Waka 4.1.5.1.1

           28 January 2013 at 6:51 pm

           A++++ So glad that someone is saying what needs to be said. Unfortunately, with the parochial attitude that is the same as 100 years ago, we have to wait for the next generation to get things rolling. “good things take time”
   • karol 4.2

     27 January 2013 at 7:33 pm

     CT: I also wanted something deeper out of them: why are they in this fight as people, what drives them on, how are they inspired, what is their grounding.

     We’ve already heard that sort of thing on more than one occasion from Turei – her working class background, her father etc. The latest mention was at Ratana this week:

     My dad would bring us to Ratana every year…

     I can see my dad now, leaning against the verandah, in his shorts and jandals, watching the politicians and saying “they talk a lot but they don’t say much”.

     He was not a learned man, but he had a strong view about politics. For him politics was about whether or not there was enough work, enough housing, a decent school for his kids. It was about whether his whānau had enough to eat. His politics was the politics of the whānau. And all the talk in the world meant nothing if his whānau still struggled for those basics.

     But he’d be proud to see me stand here, alongside you, to be part of this celebration still and to be talking on this paepae to the morehu.

     As long as I held to the kaupapa of whānau politics.

     In my work over the past few years, I have put child poverty at the centre of everything I do.

     Central to whānau politics is the right of our tamariki to a good life and a fair future. Central to whānau politics is the right of our tamariki to a strong and healthy whānau. Central to that vision is the rightful implementation of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and a return to the values of love and compassion in politics. This was the life’s work of the prophet.

     …

     Many of us here will remember our parents and grandparents using the family benefit to buy their home, or maybe the old Māori Affairs loans. Loads of kids in my generation and earlier generations grew up in their own home because their parents had access to a low interest mortgage, with no deposit needed. It is still considered by thousands of New Zealanders as the single most critical support that a government can give to a young family – a secure affordable home.

     I’ve yet to hear anything from Shearer that indicates what drives him, or what his core values are.
5. Tombstone 5

   27 January 2013 at 3:51 pm

   The more I hear from the Greens, the more I like them. I’m trying hard to like Labour but the message still isn’t quite resonating with me although I do agree with a lot of what they’re proposing. I guess I feel as though I need Labour to show a little more mongrel and bear its teeth more often than not to send a message to Key and his cronies that being smug is as good as poking the angry mutt with a stick and that it probably aint such a good idea. I don’t know if I articulated that point very well but I guess I expect to see a little more menace in Labour and a greater sense of determination to tear the mask from Key’s true face and expose the wolf behind the sheep’s clothing once and for all. Compared to Key’s speech the Greens speech was leagues ahead as was Labour’s but the Greens had this one hands down – easily.
   • Coronial Typer 5.1

     27 January 2013 at 3:53 pm

     And why would you not instead expect this mythical “mongrel” from the Greens, who as a permanent minority party have the width to be more radical? Or have the wild Greens wilted?
6. Pete 6

   27 January 2013 at 4:07 pm

   They are both good speeches and I think the parties will complement each other. I’m not awfully keen on the hints at austerity from Shearer, but Labour is going to have to find a way to counter the meme that they are spendthrifts that Key will inevitably use as a cudgel.
   • Monique Angel 6.1

     27 January 2013 at 5:32 pm

     I don’t think they are spendthrifts, I just think they hate the idea of a successful New Zealand. Daft wankers
     • millsy 6.1.1

       27 January 2013 at 5:40 pm

       No Monique. They want to tax rich bitches like you so people who aren’t rich bitches like you can have schools, housing and hospitals so fuck off back to the filthy stinking dirty shithole you came from. Why do you want the poor on the streets????!!!!!!
       • Monique Angel 6.1.1.1

         27 January 2013 at 6:08 pm

         You daft cunt. The filthy stinking shithole I came from was abject poverty where my Mum fed four children out of a food bank. Ever eaten from a foodbank, fuckwad?
         • millsy 6.1.1.1.1

           27 January 2013 at 6:12 pm

           Thats the thing about people like you. You rise from poverty and then when you get to the top, you do your best to kick the poor people. You support cutting the DPB, and americanising our health care, dismantling labour protections, holding wages down, getting rid of state housing (so you can have bigger returns for your ‘portfolio’).

           People like you should have empathy for those at the botton, and have no objection for paying taxes for things like state housing hospitals, working for families, etc, but oh no, you want to get rid of it all lock stock and barrell.

           Plus you hate rail.

           You are just like Key and Bennett.

           List of hospitals you want to close please. Right here, right now.
           • Monique Angel 6.1.1.1.1.1

             27 January 2013 at 6:22 pm

             No I don’t kick poor people. I don’t support cutting the DPB. I don’t support dismantling labour protections. You can’t hold wages down in a free market with worker protections and I don’t know fuck all about state housing. Anything else?
             • millsy …

               27 January 2013 at 6:26 pm

               Your blog suggests otherwise.

               Anyway, im done with arguing with you. Im too hot. Been slogging my guts out all afternoon building a fishpond in my back yard in the 30 degree heat.
             • mickysavage …

               27 January 2013 at 6:51 pm

               Um Monique I am really confused. Are you a communist?
               • xtasy …

                 28 January 2013 at 1:53 am

                 No, she is a professional opportunist, who chooses what benefits her, when it is convenient. So when Labour may have given her the “perks” she wanted and needed, she was happy with that. When she was not qualifying, the turned nasty on them.

                 That is what you call an opportunistic, self serving “swing voter”.

                 She left NZ for that reason, to have a better life and make more money, and she resents the thought of being associated with a country and goverment, that may ask her to contribute.

                 Sometimes those from tough, poor background turn right against others in similar circumstances, as they judge them, seeing themselves as “strugglers” and survivors, having no mercy for the ones less resilient and capable.

                 To judge on it is difficult, as much subjectivity and also a difficulty to understand all details of individuals may fog capability to judge fairly.

                 Rest my case on this.
         • xtasy 6.1.1.1.2

           28 January 2013 at 1:57 am

           You feel really angry and inferior about your background, aye? I have cousins like that, I know where you come from. To rubbish the ones that are there where you come from is not a good look though. Grow up, dear lady, that is my advice. Those that cannot accept where they come from, they carry a huge chip on their shoulders all their lives.

           Best of luck though, while you may enter a learning curve.
       • CV - Real Labour 6.1.1.2

         27 January 2013 at 6:12 pm

         relax mate, Monique’s just taking the piss. I hope.
         • millsy 6.1.1.2.1

           27 January 2013 at 6:19 pm

           Shes not. Ice queen she is. A poor woman’s Judith Collins (who is herself a poor woman’s Margaret Thatcher).
           • the Al1en 6.1.1.2.1.1

             27 January 2013 at 6:40 pm

             “(who is herself a poor woman’s Margaret Thatcher).”

             Who is herself a poor woman’s woman.
             • CV - Real Labour …

               27 January 2013 at 6:48 pm

               http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/
               • the Al1en …

                 27 January 2013 at 6:50 pm

                 “Vulgar” – The Conservative Party

                 😆
               • rosy …

                 28 January 2013 at 7:23 am

                 e-petition
     • Coronial Typer 6.1.2

       27 January 2013 at 5:57 pm

       Take no mind of Millsy – completely inappropriate language and tone.
7. Robert Atack 7

   27 January 2013 at 5:30 pm

   It is all bullshit and it is all fucked up

   And we got the theme song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
8. millsy 8

   27 January 2013 at 5:48 pm

   From Monique Watsons blog
   ……….””I’ve spoken of a clean, green, clever economy many times.
   We need our environment to drive our economic success and our economy to keep our environment clean.”
   That is a rubbish statement first off. China has not needed their environmental record to drive their economic success. “………….

   Monique Watson fully endorses the lowering of environmental standards. This will include:
   1) The discharge of toxic waste into our rivers
   2) The discharge of toxic fumes into our air, causing smoking thick smog and respitory illnesses
   3) The destruction of our national parks for mining

   [deleted]

   Fucking [deleted] why does she want to rob the earth from our children, perhaps she should dump toxic waste in her back yard
   She also wants to get rid of state housing and public healthcare

   MEAN HORRIBLE NASTY PERSON
   • CV - Real Labour 8.1

     27 January 2013 at 6:17 pm

     That is a rubbish statement first off. China has not needed their environmental record to drive their economic success. “………….

     Monique, I think you should take a swim in some Chinese rivers, feed your children a meal cooked with produce grown next to a Chinese industrial park, and go for a run in Beijing on a smoggy day.

     In summary, Chinese and international corporations have made money through destroying the environmental commons of that country. Not a good example for NZ to follow.
     • Monique Angel 8.1.1

       27 January 2013 at 6:29 pm

       “Economic success is not driven by an environmental record.” I stand by that statement. This is not the same as saying I believe in polluting rivers. In fact I think Fed Farmers should be ashamed of it’s track record I am merely pointing out the inconsistencies in Shearers speech. Fuck you’re a touchy bunch.

       How many children do you have Millsey?
       • Robert Atack 8.1.1.1

         28 January 2013 at 7:12 am

         How many children do you have Millsey?

         Having children, especially under 10, just makes you out to be another fool who leaps before looking.
   • Monique Angel 8.2

     27 January 2013 at 6:45 pm

     Nah I’m a caring person. I volunteer 20 hours a week of my time to non profit initiatives and sponsor five children through world vision. Doe that blow your mind sweetheart?
     • CV - Real Labour 8.2.1

       27 January 2013 at 6:52 pm

       You should volunteer more time

       You clearly have too much on your hands still
       • Monique Angel 8.2.1.1

         27 January 2013 at 6:55 pm

         Touche’
         • xtasy 8.2.1.1.1

           28 January 2013 at 2:07 am

           Real angry women are a turn on to some. Monique you may appeal to some, keep it up, let off your steam. I disagree with a lot you comment, and I do not think that most here are too touchy, so do not turn against TS, there are many of us here, and even if we firmly disagree with you, it is always good to hear another view or side of the story. We surely can “handle” you.

           Have a nice bath in your spa tonight, and we will hear from you again. That means also, we will tell you what we think!
9. millsy 9

   27 January 2013 at 5:51 pm

   [deleted]
   • Pete 9.1

     27 January 2013 at 5:58 pm

     Steady on millsy. If I spewed ad hominem invective at every Randroid I encountered on the forums I visit, I’d give myself a heart attack. I’m sure every reader of the comments here is dismissing her but threats of violence – even in jest – reflect badly on the rest of us.
     • millsy 9.1.1

       27 January 2013 at 6:08 pm

       Calmed down now. I think I’m going to exiled for a bit for that particular outburst.

       [B: – Glad to hear it. Was just in the process of moderating you then. Caps? nah. Bold caps? Definately no. And the level of abuse… You might notice that your comments have been reformatted and subjected to some deletions. That took time. yYu’ve pissed me off no end and I’m suggesting you pull your head a long, long way in.
       • AmaKiwi 9.1.1.1

         27 January 2013 at 9:09 pm

         Lunatic: (historic definition) a person who is emotionally affected by the full moon.

         The moon was full at 5:39 pm today.

         Maybe that explains this series emotional diatribes and personal attacks. For me, they contributed nothing to intelligent discussion.

         A note for the moderators. Our next full moon will be at 9:27 a.m. on Tuesday, 26 February. Hopefully people will be at work so we won’t have this scene again.
         • Bill 9.1.1.1.1

           27 January 2013 at 9:22 pm

           Bosses beware 🙂
10. Afewknowthetruth 10

    27 January 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Drivel, drivel, drivel.

    “We are going to protect the environment by chopping down trees, building houses and stimulating manufacturing.”

    Plus a bit of ‘better, brighter future’ borrowed from National.

    They must think we are as stupid as they are.
    • Robert Atack 10.1

      28 January 2013 at 6:52 am

      They must think we are as stupid as they are.

      No they know we are as stupid as they are ….. well at least the ones that vote and hope.
11. bad12 11

    27 January 2013 at 6:35 pm

    The above did get a little ‘intense’ didn’t it, my view of the speeches to day from Labour and the Green Party,

    Here i will stick my neck out and give Dave Shearer a ++ now your talking from within a framework that us lot on the left can appreciate,

    National are weak on both jobs and housing and your speeches as Leader should center around exposing these weaknesses both of which are at the heart of economy and society,

    I used to play rugby league years ago and my team mates reckoned that i never quite switched on and played to my full potential until the opposition put a low or high shot on me, perhaps Dave Shearer like Phill Goff befor Him performs at His best when He is provoked to anger,

    I do tho think that Dave should lay off of the Dairy industry until He has got that message into a full narrative that the average middle class voter can understand, having said that the message is correct but needs a bit more polish,

    The Green Party speech, good to see the Green Leaders having a day in the sun, well earned and when the OneNews at 6.00 starts airing praise for the Green Party i need say no more except that it looks like a good Green year,

    In conclusion, pluses all round for both Party’s and a good weekend for the left…
12. coolas 12

    27 January 2013 at 6:53 pm

    Shearer says, ‘A Government that says: you do your bit, we’ll do ours. That’s what a Labour Government will do. That’s what a government I lead will do.’

    I am so, so inspired.
    • bad12 12.1

      27 January 2013 at 7:14 pm

      John Kirwan reckons that a good swim as part of an exercise regime is good for depression…
    • xtasy 12.2

      28 January 2013 at 2:12 am

      Yeah, I forgot to mention: It reminds me of the “sickness benefit roof painter story” all along once again.

      Now Paula Bennett chose a similar tone when justifying her welfare reforms, read:

      http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-medical-professionals

      So where does Shearer stand on Bennett and her comments?

      He NEVER makes any excuses or statements on his roofpainter story, so I do NEVER trust the man either, nor his caucus.
13. karol 13

    27 January 2013 at 7:12 pm

    I am pleased to see that Shearer is giving some support for Jacinda Ardern working on policies to lift children out of poverty. Shearer links that to education and food in schools – all very important areas, and provisions.

    I hope also Shearer gives Ardern scope to work on returning social security to it’s original form and doesn’t continue down NAct’s punitive, service and benefit-cutting path. Ardern’s performance so far has been mixed. however, there have been times when she has passionately expressed a desire to end NAct’s nasty policies and do something more beneficial for those on low incomes. i’ll be interested to see if she can become a more consistent performer on such issues.
    • bad12 13.1

      27 January 2013 at 7:34 pm

      Yeah definitely agree with you there karol, unemployment as far as i am concerned is simply the score card of the effectiveness or not of Government economic policies and if there’s jobs out there for other than the university educated they are snapped up real quick so punishing the unemployed is just pathetic bullshit employed by politicians that have no other policy and such punishments simply take the place of actually trying to increase the number of jobs in the economy,

      ‘Child poverty’ the next biggie on the social policy agenda for me at least is in fact not a hard fix at all, as a minimum a comprehensive food in schools program starting with the lower decile schools and serving a bit of breakfast plus a comprehensive nutritious lunch along with the removal of income tax from those beneficiaries with dependent children would be a great start,

      i can’t help when supporting calls for food in schools programs feeling like i am buying into the nutjobs narrative of the beneficiaries blowing all their cash on the pokies and then having none left over to feed the kids, but, that couldn’t be further from the truth, my actual wish is for the Working for Families tax credit to be extended to all beneficiary families who have children,

      i cannot tho see middle class Labour having the will to make amends with WFF so being a realist would settle for the lessor of the amounts and while i decry the bad parent slur used against beneficiary parents i will happily admit there are the odd ones just as there are bad parents at all levels of economy within society, so ‘food in schools’ means that we all ‘know’ that all the kids are getting a couple of meals a day….
    • xtasy 13.2

      28 January 2013 at 2:18 am

      Karol: Child abuse and child poverty have become the “pet topic” of Bennett and even some on the opposition benches (Ardern and Shearer for example). What the root cause is is disputed. Bennett denies poverty is the reason for child abuse.

      What pisses me off something HUGE is, that nobody talks about the lot of sick and disabled! As if they either do not exist, do not deserve attention, and are just mainly maligners. That is to my impression where Bennett comes from. Shearer with his “roof painter bene” speech is not much different, I am afraid.

      So people that have serious health issues, unless it is terminal or wheel-chair stuff, are just dodging work, it seems. I wonder what is going on in Labour on this, and I am furious about what Labour do not answer to, as I and others raised their introduction of a system of Health and Disability Advisors (we know highly biased Dr David Bratt!) in 2007.

      I see a Grand Coalition of agreement between Labour and National, and if that is so, I would want to be dead soon, rather than face yet another medical review under either government. I narrowly survived the last harassment, honestly!!!
14. Ken Noes Aye 14

    27 January 2013 at 9:11 pm

    There is nothing new from the Shearer chap. It all the same as the Goff chap was offering.

    The nation said nae.
    • Jane 14.1

      28 January 2013 at 8:29 am

      Suspect this is caused by having the same expert team of advisors in Mallard, King, Hippkins, Goff etc, if changes aren’t made then nothing changes!
15. Saarbo 15

    27 January 2013 at 9:21 pm

    Labour needed to announce another big Policy. Shearer needed to build on the momentum from the Housing policy announcement, he needed something to grab the headlines. This was a wasted opportunity, this speech of Shearers is similar to his other speeches earlier last year. A wasted opportunity in my opinion….but I’m sure his advisor’s know what they are doing.
    .
    • xtasy 15.1

      28 January 2013 at 2:33 am

      Saarbo: Instead Shearer has exposed the initial announcement on housing as a bit of a “sell line”, not based much on fact and truth.

      Now the $ 300 k homes are no longer “houses” anymore, while after the original speech he and Goff and King and Sua went around ground level, basically quarter acre section style homes in Mangere and other areas, suggesting that is what voters can expect.

      Shearer has been disingenious, to be honest, he misled the public and media.

      Now the story is that those homes are likely to rather be apartments or town-houses (on shared land). And for those that want a 3 or 4 brm family home the price is now about 550 k.

      That seems to be for such in remote suburbs, far away from public transport and even motorways.

      Now David Shearer has proved to be as dodgy as can be, and his speech, more a general repetition of what Labour propagated during the last election, must be seen as a bit of a hollow exercise.

      I am NOT impressed at all, but then I did not expect anything else. Shearer talked about being “fired up”, but he looked very much like talk not action on that.

      Labour is lost with this leader, it is a dismal situation, and the members must see to it, to rid themselves of this lot at at the top. Do you want to wait for another 2 terms for a chance and change, I ask?
      • Saarbo 15.1.1

        28 January 2013 at 8:36 am

        Yes agree Xtasy, my view is that Shearer doesnt do the mahi required before announcing policies, I get the impression he isnt the sort of person that can get his head around a lot of detail. He needed the stuff he is now releasing on the Housing Policy, in November. Now National/NZ Herald are on a mission to dis-credit the Policy and in most peoples eyes they are doing a reasonable job. Labour have to work a lot harder than National because National have the backing of much of the MSM, personally I dont understand why…because National are not only a hopeless government they are also hopeless at running the economy, you only have to look at our Unemployment figures to work that out.
16. Naki nark 16

    27 January 2013 at 9:22 pm

    A few days ago I posted that I do not know if David Shearer is being used or if he is just a Nat in a mustache disguise.

    I am sad that I have my answer. I will not be delivering pamphlets for a while now!

    Mr Shearer should have manned up and called a leadership election.

    Shearer can not pretend that he does not know what members have been saying on blogs because the sprout has told us that Mike Smith who writes articles on The Standard is PAID by Shearer.

    GUTLESS.
17. Tiresias 17

    27 January 2013 at 11:32 pm

    D. Shearer:-

    “New Zealanders have always achieved what wasn’t supposed to be possible. ….. We’ve always dreamed big and succeeded ….. People overcoming adversity…. &tc.” So if you tried and failed, or didn’t get a chance to try, you’re a loser ‘cos you didn’t try hard enough or dream big enough.

    “It’s about getting our priorities right, being thrifty about our economy. Bringing our debt under control.” Ah yes, IMF song-sheet page 4. Clearly our priorities cannot be counter-cyclical Government spending to create jobs and repair/boost the infrastructure.

    “We’ll give tax breaks to companies doing world-leading research and development,..” Gonna be interesting to read the Tax regulation that defines ‘world-leading research and development’. And the regulation that stops any company with an office overseas utilising its research overseas, although presumably any international company that sees this as a problem won’t do the research here in the first place.

    “My promise to you as Prime Minister is that I will always stand up for the hardworking, forgotten New Zealanders.” Show me any politician from any party in the last 50 years that has said he wouldn’t.

    “It’s also why Labour will introduce a Capital Gains Tax to move investment into business and away from property speculation that is pushing house prices through the roof.” Now that is real news. I wonder if anyone else in the Labour caucus knew that. ‘Course a capital gains tax would generally also capture gains on shares and business investments, too, and so push investment overseas although you can try to limit it to bricks and mortar – as long as you also plug the myriad of loopholes tax specialists come up with the help the professional investor.

    “Labour will put food in schools, to make sure all our kids get the same chance to learn.” That’s more than a tid-bit, too. Most kids don’t need it and it hasn’t worked very well where it’s been tried unless you’re going to do cooked meals, which means kitchens and staff. Or is it just a return to free school milk?

    “Most Kiwis hate it. And we are behind them fighting [asset sales] all the way.” Can’t say I’ve noticed, but maybe that’s just me. But if you really meant ‘all the way’ you could kill asset sales dead today by announcing you’ll renationalise them at cost immediately after being elected.

    “New Zealanders are forward thinking and are prepared to do what it takes to create a better future.” Link, please? Certainly assumes that “New Zealanders” will all agree with you about what it will take.

    “We’ll make changes to monetary policy so that our job-creating businesses aren’t undermined by our exchange rate.” Didn’t work the last time the Central Bank tried to intervene whle bigger, richer countries than us have failed to manipulate their exchange rates and lost fortunes trying. talk to the Governor of the Bank of England about their 1993 experience. Or are you suggesting the Chinese model of subsidising your job-creating businesses? In any case, bringing the exchange rate down is going to have very nasty effects on the debt you’re so worried about. That’s why National isn’t doing very much about it.

    Didn’t bother analysing any more. Platitudes, meaningless feel-good phrases and general politician’s kiss-the-baby crap.

    5/10. Must try harder.
18. Green machine UpandComer 18

    27 January 2013 at 11:45 pm

    I heart Meteria. She is so good. I can’t wait for NZ’s main export to be windmills for wind farms. I can’t wait to get a house for $300k in Auckland. I cannot wait for our macroeconomic woes to be cured by printing money. I’m really looking forward to all the job growth that will come from a ‘clean green economy’. I’m stoked that a Wellington lawyer is going to ‘pick all the winners’ in our economy. It will be great when the DPB is ramped up, I might quit my job, why bother, I’ll do some fishing in Gizzy. I can’t wait for a capital gains tax, I mean, what a boost for small investors who can’t afford a house but who might buy some shares. It will be excellent when an oz union representing a few dozen members can derail an entire NZ industry. It will be great when the next transmission Gully gets held up another 25 years because a local taniwha didn’t like the smell of cordite. It will be so good not having to employ migrant workers because kiwis won’t do a job that me and my family did for years. I’m looking forward to a return to 1970’s industrial law, because boy that was excellent. I look forward to the repoliticisation of the public service – and my, the job growth that will come from this! I’m buying shares in Fletcher building, because 100000, or was it one billion? houses practically for free is going to need a bit of investment I suppose. I can’t wait for the status quo to be maintained in education – talking to people from Hamilton will be wonderful. They’ll use complete sentences that don’t involve the All-Blacks.

    Yay for the left in NZ.
    • xtasy 18.1

      28 January 2013 at 2:37 am

      F you, you distorter, liar and manipulator, I do not buy into such crap being allowed here.
      • CV - Real Labour 18.1.1

        28 January 2013 at 8:39 am

        It was pretty comical, from start to finish.
19. xtasy 19

    28 January 2013 at 3:31 am

    FYI

    See ‘Monique Angel’ aka ‘Monique Watson’, and what she posted on Kiwiblog yesterday ato 05:10 pm on 27 January:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/01/shearers_state_of_the_nation_speech.html#comments

    She is only here to do some “stirring”, for those that do not know her!
    • QoT 19.1

      28 January 2013 at 7:51 am

      I quite liked what she had to say about me on Tumeke.
      • the pigman 19.1.1

        29 January 2013 at 2:50 am

        By the looks of it, Monique had “had a few” before that post, QoT. A bit of a pattern from what I’ve seen of her posts on “left” blogs (here, Red Alert and elsewhere).

        No doubt, despite her professed AD&D alignment, she was feeling passed over on Tumeke… nary a mention, even after the charming backstory she spun one hazy frisco mid-afternoon of having once been a homeless P addict.

        What I really can’t handle though, even more than the Cameron Slaters off the world, are those who position themselves as “centrists” but then espouse right-wing rubbish, because it allows them to shift the political goalposts for the whole political conversation.
    • Pete 19.2

      28 January 2013 at 9:05 am

      I’m not sure it matters why she’s here. I didn’t read her comments as trolling. And if she was trolling, the number 1 rule of the internet is “Do not feed the trolls”. A lot of people bring baggage with them if they have built up an identity online. It’s far better just to address their comments – not of the baggage they carry, rather than try to shut them down in such an objectionable fashion. Heck, I even regret calling her a “Randroid” upthread. I’m sorry for that, Monique.

      I get the same feeling when Matthew Hooten comes on here too. I know he can handle it, but it derails discussion. We’re supposed to be a compassionate movement of ideas. The best way to counter positions we object to is by detailing better ideas, not by brow-beating people in the hopes they’d just go away.
20. Afewknowthetruth 20

    28 January 2013 at 8:06 am

    The trouble is Turei and Shearer are just shills for the destruction of the planet we live on by corporations and money-lenders, shills for the maintenance of the slave state. That is the REAL state of the nation……. a nation that is a slave of the international money-lenders and corporations (both overseas and local). And the people are just the slaves who wreck the environment on their behalf. Political parties are just the overseers and facilitators of the destruction of the planet we live on.

    Obviously this despotic system will keep going till there is insufficient fossil fuel to run the machines,, insufficient soil or water to feed the people, air so polluted people drop like flies, an epidemic of preventable disease (preventable by having a healthy environment, clean air and water), nutritional foods etc.). Of course that is already happening around the world but not yet in NZ……so it must all be rosy.

    This despotic system certainly won’t end by people waking up to reality in time to prevent catastrophe. Most people would rather die a horrible way and destroy their children’s future than become informed and do something to save themselves. Most people look to someone else, i.e. a party leader, to do something for them. And it’s not going to happen because, as I said at the start, party leaders are just shills for corporations and money-lenders.

    See ya all at the bottom of the cliff. By the way, the cliff edge is now crumbling.
21. Sore Eyes 21

    28 January 2013 at 9:53 am

    It hurts my eyes trying to read this.
22. blue leopard 22

    28 January 2013 at 12:17 pm

    I find the two speeches in combination very promising. It appears that the 2 parties (or parties’ strategists) are working together. It appears that Labour are aiming to target small business owners (a very forgotten constiuency) and farmers, hence the repetitive use of “hard-working”; having met these types they do pride themselves on their “hard-working” characters. The Greens are targeting a different range of people, [obviously] those with environmental awareness, urbanites, the younger generation (well done!!), probably Labour’s traditional supporters, and [hopefully] some of the non-voters.

    Based on these speeches, I would fit in much more to the Greens target audience, and therefore the approach in their speech “works” more for me than Labour’s. (n.b. I have to date never voted Greens) Having noted my bias, and even taking account of it, I view the Greens speech as stronger. They were able to list what they have DONE recently including the tangible opposition they have [consistently] applied toward this [joke of a] Government. Labour was unable to do this because their opposition has been weak. This gave Greens the edge because it wasn’t all about “we will do…”, “we promise to do…”; it was “this is our stance, here is our aim, look, we can show we mean it because we have already achieved this”

    Yeah, so Mr Shearer may not be reading the blogs, yet I would consider it foolhardy that his strategists would turn down the free source of feedback that blogs can be, so Strategists reading this, I suggest you pay some attention to creating clearer, louder and thus more effective opposition to this crazy government this year, not doing so is creating doubts in many as to what Labour’s real stance is, and whether they are capable of acting on their aims. Without doubt Labour will be losing potential votes if this weak opposition carries on. Let’s not forget there is a duty (and a purpose to that duty) to oppose a government, when in opposition and this government provides you unbelievable opportunities to do so, so please get to it.
    • CV - Real Labour 22.1

      29 January 2013 at 7:55 am

      I think your scenario of high level tactical co-operation between the Greens and Labour is a nice one to have, but from what I hear, the two parties have difficulties getting together on even basic operational matters. For that a small number of staffers on either side are to blame.

      What I think you are actually seeing is Labour staying appealing to a centrist, pragmatic swing voting constituency and the Greens deliberately targetting Labour’s traditional working class, Left Wing constituency. So it looks and smells like side by side co-operation, but isn’t really. They’ve picked their markets and are pitching at them. Labour (the NZ Liberal Party) has vacated the Left and the Greens see a gap to grow into, one which includes the 800,000 non-voters from 2011.
23. Robert Atack 23

    29 January 2013 at 7:30 am

    Lets pretend Turei and Shearer are good honest people who have a clear understanding that at some stage in the life of the average young Kiwi Saver, the fund is going to go tits up.
    This blog has some very aware contributes, my question is to them
    I’m sure most of you would say the KS will not be around in 47 years, yet Turei and Shearer are telling all 18 yo’s that KS is a sure bet, I think telling 50yo’s is way to hopeful, so at what stage should these honest upright ‘leaders’ come clean?
    Is it right for these so called honest people to keep this lie alive?
    Are they trustworthy?

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS