Tea Party turns violent

Written By: - Date published: 11:10 am, January 9th, 2011 - 225 comments
Categories: Media, us politics - Tags: ,

Only one US Congressperson has ever been assassinated – Leo Ryan during the Jonestown Massacre. Gabrielle Giffords may become the second after a gunman shot her and others, killing at least one, in Arizona. This appears to be part of a rising tide of violence from America’s far-right Tea Party movement, driven on by Glenn Beck and others.

Ever since Barack Obama became President, and even before, the rightwing media in the US has been fomenting paranoia among their target audience. You’ve seen the youtube clips of Beck crying about his ‘fear for my country’ and drawing elaborate conspiracy theories on his blackboard – and you’ve laughed (hopefully). But a lot of Americans take the message very seriously and I’ve been worried for a long time about how they will act.

With Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limburgh, Ann Coulter, and others spreading fear that Obama is planning a socialist military coup and calling for opposition in quasi-militaristic terms to ‘defend the constitution’, it was inevitable that some of their audience would react with violence towards Democrats.

Congresspeople are receiving an unprecedented number of threats, mostly from this Tea Party Right. Last year, a man ‘expressed his constitutional right’ by openly baring an automatic weapon at a rally attended by President Obama. A man recently plead guilty to calling former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and threatening to blow up her house. In July, a man got in a gunfight with police on his way to attack the leftwing American Civil Liberties Union. The architects of the Tea Party movement have encouraged their followers to want their opponents dead – it was only a matter of time until someone acted successfully.

Yesterday a gunman, identified as Jared Laughner (now in custody), a US, opened fire with an automatic weapon on Congresswoman Giffords, her aides, and constituents meeting her at a supermarket. At least one aide is dead and Giffords is in critical condition having been shot in the head.

In a sign of the times, Laughner left what he thought would be his last statement on Youtube. It’s a confused, ranting all-text message that calls the Obama and the Democrat’s laws are treasonous, talks about defending the Constitution, says the revolutionaries have taken control, and says that the currency should be backed by gold or silver. All these are regular themes of Beck and his peers.

The Tea party movement, a creation of extreme rightwing media outlets like Fox News and funded by rightwing billionaires the Koch Brothers, has brought a new level of hatred to the US political environment and incited violence. Perhaps this who movement is just an inevitable expression of the turmoil that always occurs when an empire collapses on itself but, as long as the rightwing elite continue to whip their followers into a frenzy, we will see more and more acts like this.

PS. the pic on the front page is of a Tea Party protester. His sign is a reference favoured by Tea Partiers to Thomas Jefferson’s quote: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

Update: illuminatedtiger has supplied links to two Sarah Palin messages that imply violence towards Giffords. A map with Giffords’ seat in the crosshairs and an event message saying “target victory … remove Gabrielle Giffords … shoot a fully automatic M16.”

225 comments on “Tea Party turns violent ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. The Voice of Reason 1
    9 January 2011 at 8:48 am

    US Democrat Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords assassinated:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12143774

    If only she’d been carrying a gun. Or a bigger gun. Or lots of guns. That woulda saved her.

    • ianmac 1.1
      9 January 2011 at 9:02 am

      VOR: Giffords is still alive- in surgery as at 9am.

      • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 9:23 am

        She was on Sarah Palin’s hit list.

        Whether related to this or not I hope our politics never ever get this low or offensive.

        Palin

        • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 9:39 am

          Palin’s presidential campaign should be over now. This will stuff her the way the Anderton ‘earthquake’ story ended his mayoralty bid.

          Desperate Palin press release just out:

          My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona.

          On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

          Sarah Palin

          • QoT 1.1.1.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 10:53 am

            US bloggers I read aren’t so optimistic – already the Republican Speaker of the House is spinning this as “an attack on a person who serves is an attack on all of us”, the “crazed lone gunman” rhetoric is going strong and frankly I have no faith in the US media to turn around after years of reporting and ignoring the eliminationist rhetoric of the right and actually holding them to account.

            Because apparently the cognitive dissonance required to believe that (a) Sarah Palin saying “don’t retreat, reload” and talk of “Second Amendment remedies” has nothing to do with (b) people shooting Democrats isn’t sufficient to make one’s head explode.

            • Deadly_NZ 1.1.1.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 11:15 am

              Give them time and the *lone Gunman* will become a terrorist they will arrest all his friends and aquaintances and grill them too, there will be terrorist cells and bomb threats suddenly exposed (live and in colour on all major networks). You really would not want to be in this guys address book.

              • QoT …
                9 January 2011 at 11:28 am

                I simply don’t accept that when at this stage it looks like Lone White US-Style Libertarian Gunman Takes Out “Liberal” Politician. If there were any suggestion of this being Middle East / War on Terror related, we’d already have calls for all dark-skinned people to be stuck in preventative custody. But Americans simply do not like to accept that people who are white and say they’re doing it for [the Christian] God and Country are “terrorists”.

                See the case of Scott Roeder. Because apparently years of Bill O’Reilly calling Dr Tiller a baby murderer, and huge nationwide networks of extreme prolifers, had nothing to do with … an extreme prolifer murdering Dr Tiller.

                • NickS …
                  9 January 2011 at 12:14 pm

                  Yeah, you’d think with all the noise over militant Islamists online forums etc the US media might have twigged that echo rooms like the FreeRepublic and other sites combined with utterly insane moonbats such as Glen Beck on tv might actually provide a fertile environment for legitimising domestic terrorism. Then again, white, GOP voting males can’t possibly be terrorists…

                  • QoT …
                    9 January 2011 at 2:38 pm

                    Thanks, Nick, I’d managed to block the existence of FreeRepublic from my brain for a few years there … 😛

        • Deadly_NZ 1.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 1:19 pm

          Read the comments at the bottom of this one the best is Sarah her self.

          http://www.blogforarizona.com/blog/2010/06/jesse-kelly-event-is-this-wording-intentional.html

        • Deborah Kean 1.1.1.3
          9 January 2011 at 4:35 pm

          Coincidentally, I am reading a thread on the ‘tin foil hat site’ about this
          http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread648434/pg3
          It’s about 50% paranoid victim-blaming, and quite terrifying really…
          I really thank God, can’t see anything like that happening here!
          Deb
          captcha bidding – as in the psycho-boy doing Palin’s bidding?

    • Bill 1.2
      9 January 2011 at 10:54 am

      Just in relation to the gun element. You are aware that she is pro-gun?

      More substantially, it’s been being said for some time now that the failure of the establishment’s liberals and their institutions to play the traditional role of allowing the populace to ‘let off steam’ and promote genuine reforms was going to lead to a backlash coming from the ‘hi-jacking’ and deliberate mis-targetting of legitimate popular anger.

      Maybe this is indicative of that prediction beginning to come to fruition?

      • mickysavage 1.2.1
        9 January 2011 at 4:06 pm

        You are aware that she is pro-gun?

        If she is an elected representative in Arizona then the chances are pretty good that she would be pro gun …

      • Deborah Kean 1.2.2
        9 January 2011 at 4:45 pm

        “Just in relation to the gun element. You are aware that she is pro-gun? ”
        This is one time where I can legitimately say “Oh the irony!”
        Deb

    • RedLogix 1.3
      9 January 2011 at 10:58 am

      In a civilised country Palin would be in custody and facing serious criminal charges right now.

      • Blair 1.3.1
        9 January 2011 at 3:36 pm

        In a civilised country, people have free speech. It’s the uncivilised ones which lock people up for saying things you don’t like.

    • Deadly_NZ 1.4
      9 January 2011 at 11:10 am

      Hmmm I thought Assassinated meant Dead.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/4523295/Congresswoman-shot-in-US-gun-drama

      Doc’s are optomistic she will make a full recovery Hmmm shot point blank in the head. Thats gotta scramble your marbles.

      • QoT 1.4.1
        9 January 2011 at 11:32 am

        Initial reports said she, along with several others, was dead. Nevertheless it’s an assassination attempt and it will be fascinating if the US media deign to report it as such (instead of a “shooting”, for example).

      • NickS 1.4.2
        9 January 2011 at 12:09 pm

        Hmmm shot point blank in the head. Thats gotta scramble your marbles.

        The fact that she’s still alive indicates that the bullet either didn’t penetrate the brain deeply, or grazed the side of her head. Provided they keep the swelling down, she’ll probably recover pretty closely to normal functions.

        • Deadly_NZ 1.4.2.1
          9 January 2011 at 12:55 pm

          Yep and it really wont matter in the end cos she’s a politician and you just cant tell.

          Or as a line from the TV series Bones when she and Hodgkins are buried alive goes.

          Bones “if this goes wrong it’ll scramble our brains”
          Hodgkins ” then we can run for congress”

          True so true

          • Deborah Kean 1.4.2.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 4:50 pm

            Neither funny nor true… Deadly NZ, the RW statement/belief that all politicians are stupid or liars, is getting pretty old.
            Deb

            • Deadly_NZ 1.4.2.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 6:18 pm

              Ummmm I’d have a good look at the guy we have incharge if I was you. he may not be stupid. BUT in the terms of running a country he’s an idiot. and as for politicians being liars well just look back at the last political year, the NACTS have very good at lying, unfortunatly for them they also got caught.

              • Vicky32 …
                9 January 2011 at 7:06 pm

                Some politicians are stupid. Some lie. They are (anti-gummint crazy rhetoric notwithstanding) human beings.
                Any time I hear a “joke” about stupid/lying/crazy evil politicos, I dismiss that person as not being a thinker.
                You should see the unspeakable hatred I am reading right now on the tin foil hat site – “the first shot in a war against the tyrannical regime”
                “The start of the necessary revolution” and in reply to someone who said pretty much “hey, include me out, I want no part of a revolution that starts by shooting an unarmed woman “Good thing the Founding Fathers didn’t think like you”.
                She’s a politician. They are stupid/evil. She deserved it.
                And someone greeted the news of the judge being killed with “He’s got to be a crook, after 40 years of feeding at the public trough”.
                Sounds just like Mark Bennett!
                Deb

                • Deadly_NZ …
                  9 January 2011 at 8:55 pm

                  Yep matches the rhetoric i am reading on a radical right wing site. gotta read em to keep up with the lastest insanity that they propose. and some just have me shaking my head thinking, the link is posted in here somewhere

                  Only in America..

  2. jcuknz 2
    9 January 2011 at 9:16 am

    VOR … I hope you are being ironic.

    • The Voice of Reason 2.1
      9 January 2011 at 9:28 am

      Indeed I was being ironic, JC, though I was watching the coverage on Fox News at the time I wrote, and it hasn’t occurred to them that they might be part of the reason she was attacked, nor that the US’s insane attachment to guns encourages this sort of incident.

      • prism 2.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 10:44 am

        It’s not guns that shoot people, it’s rabid, hatefull ideologies that pull the trigger.

      • Deadly_NZ 2.1.2
        9 January 2011 at 11:18 am

        Well no wonder you were watching Fox thats pretty much a radical misreporting arm of the Republican party, stick to sky news lol

        • The Voice of Reason 2.1.2.1
          9 January 2011 at 11:28 am

          Yeah, Sky (owner: R Murdoch) is miles better than Fox (owner: R Murdoch). I’ve been watching Fox just to see if they make any mention of Palin, the Tea party or themselves as being implicated in the hate. Nothing yet, but I’ll let you know.

          The shooter seems to be a mixed up young man, convinced that the government was manipulating the peeps by misuse of grammar. If only it was that simple, eh?

  3. Girlfriday 3
    9 January 2011 at 11:16 am

    This entire post is a lie. The shooter is against the constitution,religion, and voted for Obama. This is a poison blog.

    • RedLogix 3.1
      9 January 2011 at 11:43 am

      mmm…. where did this come from?

      • Marty G 3.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 11:50 am

        Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA.

        I don’t know how she would know how Laughner voted. Probably got it off a Beck/Palin conspiracy site.

        • QoT 3.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 11:55 am

          The current RWNJ spin is that it could, like, totally have been a Democrat! Because, um, Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi! And Democrats are also, y’know, totally the party of violent rhetoric!

        • IrishBill 3.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 11:55 am

          The tea party right has a very efficient and aggressive internet strategy. From what I can see across US and UK blogs there’s already a concerted disinformation campaign going on. Looks like we attracted our first tea party troll. cool.

          • RedLogix 3.1.1.2.1
            9 January 2011 at 12:07 pm

            Yes that’s what I thought IB. I have have heard about this sort of thing but to see it first hand with our own eyes is fascinating and chilling all at once.

            When you think about how fast and efficient this response was you get some idea of just how well organsised and resourced these people are. This troll posted six minutes after Eddie’s OP!!

            Only short-coming was that in their haste the actual attempt was rather clumsy. Often in the first 24hrs after an event like this little clues and snippets slip out that are later on covered up … I’ve seen this happen over and over. This was no ordinary troll, nor any kind of accident. We were targeted fast, cleanly and efficiently.

            The next round of disinformation will be a lot more sophisticated.

            • Tigger 3.1.1.2.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 12:57 pm

              “This is a poison blog” is one of the better crazy lines the trolls have come up with lately. So points for hilarity there girlfriday.

      • QoT 3.1.2
        9 January 2011 at 11:53 am

        Ain’t obvious trolls adorable?

        • logie97 3.1.2.1
          9 January 2011 at 12:38 pm

          Commenting.
          From memory a commenter on this site needs to register first, is moderated and then accepted. Therefore that “Troll” has been here before.

          Whilst I value the opportunity to read opinions of the political spectrum, there are times when some visitors to this site can be quite offensive/abhorrent and lend nothing to the debate. I particularly like the opportunity to develop threads. Comments like Girl Friday’s interrupt this process…

          Presumably the Sysops can recognise a country code/ISP of a contributor and take some control over them.

          I believe we have had this discussion before. This Blog is an excellent forum – it would be a shame if The Standard was to be dragged to the level of the Penguin or Cetacean.

          • Marty G 3.1.2.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 12:44 pm

            you don’t need to register but the first comment from a new email address goes to auto-moderation. I released this one because it was interesting to see how quickly they were on to us and it doesn’t violate the rules of posting.

    • Deadly_NZ 3.2
      9 January 2011 at 12:58 pm

      Or as the Radical Right over there put it

      http://rightwingnews.com/#post24690

  4. RedLogix 4
    9 January 2011 at 11:18 am

    If the kind of language used by Palin, Beck and other sundry nutters in the Tea Party was direct at say, gays or black Americans… we would have little problem recognising that kind of language as a violence inciting hate-crime.

    But when the target is political things get blurry don’t they?

    PS The reports I’m reading suggest that so far Giffords has survived surgery. But at least one child has been killed. If anything this makes it worse.

  5. illuminatedtiger 5
    9 January 2011 at 11:24 am

    Fire up a group of people who by nature lack the ability to think things through in a rational manner and this was bound to happen. Sarah Palin literally put a crosshair on Giffords ( http://imgur.com/Uw4RS , http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1294/aakelly048c.png ).

    • Bill 5.1
      9 January 2011 at 12:40 pm

      It’s not helpful to dismiss tea partiers and such like as mere idiots who “by nature lack the ability to think things through in a rational manner”. I mean, did you form your political opinions free from external influence? Or have they been shaped and guided by received information or received ‘wisdoms’?

      Fact of the matter is that there is a lot of justifiable anger around, and not just in the USA. The liberal elites ( all over the show) have forsaken their natural constituencies in order to accomodate corporate agendas. As a consequence, there are no avenues to express anger in ways that might result in positive outcomes. Liberal institutions that used to faccilitate positive reform have been neutered or dismantled while the corporate media peddle lines that reinforce feelings of insignificance and hopelessness.

      No vision or articulaton for feelings of general disquiet or anger by the left…articulations or visions that could engender hope in the form of reforms to come or whatever, leaves a vaccuum. And that will be filled by articulations predicated on putting a focus anywhere but on the real culprits behind policies that result in anger and discontent.

      And that means that liberals ( and liberal institutions ) that stood between us and corporate or private power are going to ‘get it in the neck’. And it’s not undeserved. They abandoned us and their moral foundations to sup with the devil in a quest for power. But there wasn’t a spoon long enough to keep them safe from a certain come uppance.

      Liberals have been complicit in the disempowerment of the citizenry. Now they ( the liberals) are isolated. And conveniently expendable little whipping boys.

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    9 January 2011 at 11:25 am

    The poor old Tea Party. Started as an ostensibly independent political movement and was then very efficiently and thoroughly hijacked by cynical big money Right wingers and Republicans.

    • Marty G 6.1
      9 January 2011 at 11:33 am

      exiledonline has very good coverage of the tea party. it’s been astroturf from the start. The term Tea Party was coined by a Fox News Presenter on a floor of a stock exchange.

      • THE MOUCH 6.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 12:34 pm

        Wrong Marty. The term was coined by Rick Santelli, a presenter with CNBC which is owned by General Electric. Nothing to do with Fox.

        • Marty G 6.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 12:41 pm

          sorry, you’re right – it was a rightwing TV commentator on the floor of a stock exchange though.

          • IrishBill 6.1.1.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 12:54 pm

            Indeed it was Santelli and exiledonline tracked his rant back to the Koch’s rightwing astroturf outfit Freedom works: http://exiledonline.com/exposing-the-familiar-rightwing-pr-machine-is-cnbcs-rick-santelli-sucking-koch/

            The teaparty movement is and always was an astroturf by far right billionaires which sucked in angry rednecks who have been disenfranchised by the same billionaires they now do the bidding of. Like they say, there’s two kinds of republican: millionaires and suckers.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 2:35 pm

              Like they say, there’s two kinds of NACT supporter: millionaires and suckers.

              Localised it for you

              • higherstandard …
                9 January 2011 at 2:38 pm

                Are these the same people who say “there’s two types of labour supporter: beneficiaries and morons” ?

                If so, I expect it’s the same lazy retards who can’t see beyond their own prejudices.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  9 January 2011 at 2:52 pm

                  Are these the same people who say “there’s two types of labour supporter: beneficiaries and morons” ?

                  Yep, NACT supporters.

                  If so, I expect it’s the same lazy retards who can’t see beyond their own prejudices.

                  Yep, I’d agree with that to.

                  NACT supporters tend to be lazy, uneducated (not willing to actually read the actual research) and delusional (willing to believe in that which is contrary to reality).

                  • McFlock …
                    9 January 2011 at 5:10 pm

                    And of course the stereotype of Labour/left supporters is easily disprovable, given the existence of lefties who are not beneficiaries (e.g. and electorate MP where the majority of voters aren’t beneficiaries), as opposed to the fact that National consistently, unfailingly, stuff things up (economy, society, budgets, departments) when in government but they still get votes.

    • adriank 6.2
      10 January 2011 at 12:25 pm

      Here’s a good piece from Rolling Stone’s Matt Taibbi on the the Tea Party movement:

      http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928

      The stuff about to co-option of Rand Paul is incredible.

  7. Kaplan 7
    9 January 2011 at 11:32 am

    Christ. What is the point. These mad arseholes that would be in charge (Palin etc.) are 100% in control of their message.
    There is no question they are responsible for this. It’s sick. And I despair for us all.

  9. Pascal's bookie 9
    9 January 2011 at 12:25 pm

    A vid released last year by country music C teamer and Tea party superstar Ray Stevens, of, Arizona:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpOcZVnBrc

    But you know, this sort of thing is all just talk. Propaganda shouldn’t be taken seriously, no sir, lookitthatoverthere some lieberal is being shrill!!

  10. higherstandard 10
    9 January 2011 at 1:02 pm

    I don’t know whether you can call the alleged shooter far right or far left…. certainly far nuts.

    search jared l lougher on google…….. whew what a looney pity these nuts don’t shoot themselves in the head first rather than turning their guns on others.

    http://themoderatevoice.com/97464/bio-favorite-books-of-man-in-custody-jared-lee-loughner-alleged-to-have-shot-and-killed-people-at-congresswoman-giffords-street-corner-congress-is-named/

    • Marty G 10.1
      9 January 2011 at 1:21 pm

      He’s a tea partier, HS. Just accept it.

      see the list of books – the Tea Party loves Orwell because they see him as anti-communist – they don’t realise he was a communist, just as they don’t realise Rand was an atheist.

      I’ve just read Fahrenheit 451 – great book for anti-hedonism but the author has a libertarian rant at the end in the coda of my edition. Bradbury is a rightwinger.

      sure, Laughner’s got the communist manifesto in there but he’s also got Mein Kampf.

      Look at the man’s statement on youtube. Look at who he shot.

      • higherstandard 10.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 1:33 pm

        Marty don’t you think you’re just a tad desperate to associate nuts with any group who you disagree with.

        The chap’s statement on youtube suggests he’s ingested one too many peyote cacti.

        Best you grow up and realise that the political spectrum ain’t a straight line it’s a circle with the extremists of all ilks meeting at the point flashing ”nut nut nut.”

        • Marty G 10.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 1:40 pm

          he’s a tea partier.

          • higherstandard 10.1.1.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 1:55 pm

            I’m still getting my head around the fact you’ve only just read Fahrenheit 451 – don’t they have it as part of required reading at high school anymore ?

            • illuminatedtiger 10.1.1.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 2:08 pm

              He was a tea bagger. A lunatic from the far right. Accept it.

              • higherstandard …
                9 January 2011 at 2:35 pm

                Well in your little world I expect you’d call the congresswoman he shot a far right politician.

                Nuts are nuts are nuts, how you define them and how they define themselves doesn’t change their fringe nuttery any less or more, what’s fairly obvious to all but the rampantly partisan is that they inhabit most if not all political flavours

            • Deadly_NZ 10.1.1.1.1.2
              9 January 2011 at 4:03 pm

              You are joking what with all the Cuts to the education, and preschool education by the NACTS you will be lucky if they can read and write teir own names and thats how the NACTS like it if they cant read then they cant complain and they will vote for who ever sounds the nicest..

        • the sprout 10.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 2:10 pm

          looks like Palin is going to pay for this going by her facebook comments…

          http://www.facebook.com/notes/sarah-palin/dont-get-demoralized-get-organized-take-back-the-20/373854973434

          • Deadly_NZ 10.1.1.2.1
            9 January 2011 at 4:08 pm

            Well here’s hoping that someone will have the balls to question her about her hit list and then arrest her for conspiricy to murder. She fanned the flames she should pay. but as usual she will wriggle out of it. My god she is as dumb as a doorknob. and thats what makes her dangerous. Even Mcain should be say what the Fark have i woken up? give her a little tase of power and she goes mad.

            • Tigger 10.1.1.2.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 4:43 pm

              I cam imagine what’s next, crazy tea partied hates fact that Palin’s been blamed for shooting and shoots up another senator on the list as punishment. It’s that kind of crazy logic that keeps these people warm at night.

  11. Afewknowthetruth 11
    9 January 2011 at 1:25 pm

    All of this is just a side show (just as NZ politiics is). The media focus on this trivia to keep the proles distracted from the real issues, which are:

    Collapse of fiat currencies -been underway for decades and now accelerating, especially with respect to food.

    The peaking of oil extraction. This occured over the period 2005 to 2008 and will lead to complete collapse of all current economic arrangements over the next few years, including elimination of most of the food supply.

    Collapse of the environment. This is ongoing and accelerating, and could easily lead to a largely unihabitable planet. Deforestation, acidification of the oceans, massive drop in plankton numbers, melting ice caps (December recorded the lowest ice cover since satallites began imaging, and now the jet streams look to be disrupted.)

    No wonder nobody wants to talk about the real isssues.

  12. deemac 12
    9 January 2011 at 1:40 pm

    can any posts that refer to the “liberal elite(s)” just be deleted to stop us wasting time reading them? Thanks!

  13. Name 13
    9 January 2011 at 3:13 pm

    No doubt this guy’s political leanings, or whatever idiosyncratic mish-mash of political views he has, will be much trawled over in the coming days.

    For the moment I’ve no idea what they were, but I am aware that a great many people who voted for Obama and invested a great deal of hope in him are feeling not only hugely betrayed by him and his unfulfilled promises of change and transparency, but are in a state of despair at the patent corruption of democracy in the US, the apparent unimpeachably of the rich elite, the joke that the “American Dream” has become, &tc.

    For that reason I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that this violence is an expression of the fury and frustration of those on the left who following Obama’s perceived betrayal have given up on the democratic process – and those who claim to represent them within it – and that is a deeply worrying thing.

  14. interesting 14
    9 January 2011 at 3:18 pm

    I understand that the shooter is in fact a democrat. But I guess we will see in the days to come because I am sure that tea party people will want to prove that he is not associated with them.

    • QoT 14.1
      9 January 2011 at 4:26 pm

      And of course the logical place to start is by trying to scrub the internet clean of all your “target” and gunsight-related rhetoric. “We must establish he was not one of us … by santizing our Twitter accounts!”

  15. Tanz 15
    9 January 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Typical of the left to blame the Tea Party movement, anything to discredit a movement that has gained much momentum and power, and for much needed reasons. Get a life, has nothing to do with the Tea Party movers, and they are light relief indeed. A true right wing group, rather than one who pretends to be.

    • The Voice of Reason 15.1
      9 January 2011 at 3:36 pm

      Have you met Girlfriday, Tanz? Up at comment 3. She’s desperate, too, but then her idol Sarah Moron has just seen her presidential aspirations go down the gurgler. What’s your motivation for ignoring reality?

    • Deadly_NZ 15.2
      9 January 2011 at 4:14 pm

      hey maybe you should READ some of the attachments (you click on the pretty blue underlined writing.) Maybe then you will see that your idol has blood on her hands, there again judging by your comments you have blinkers on. maybe you could buy yourself a one way ticket to the land of the Paranoid and Insane if they will let you in.

  16. Irascible 16
    9 January 2011 at 3:35 pm

    The Sheriff and Mayor of the city are registering anger about the attack at 10 on the richter scale. “Arizona” becoming the state of hatred, of prejudice and irrationality… This shooting is, unfortunately, a reflection of the dark under belly that comes from the constant appeals to bigotry that has become the modus operandi of right wing politics since the 1970s.
    We have seen how easily that bigotry can be tapped in NZ from Muldoon’s “Dancing Cossacks” in the 70s through to Pansy’s capitalising on the “Crime is aimed at Asians” campaign in Botany 2008, the ACT argument that “Opt out” Student Association membership is equivalent of gang rape and the NACT memes on light bulbs, shower heads and “nanny state.”
    We may not get the shooters but we will get the irrational violence against those who don’t buy into their belief system.

  17. RedLogix 17
    9 January 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Of course not Tanz… the revolutionary and violent language of the Tea Party, it’s focus on discrediting the entire political process and the very purpose of government… of course these things have nothing to do with formenting an environment in which violent revolutionary acts designed to discredit and destabilise government occur.

    Nothing at all sir.

    • Tanz 17.1
      9 January 2011 at 3:45 pm

      That’s because the American govt has been infiltrated by the Left, almost to a stanglehold, same as here. And it’s Madam, not Sir. Having a lovely holiday? Best wishes to you.

      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 3:51 pm

        That’s because the American govt has been infiltrated by the Left, almost to a stanglehold, same as here.

        What.

        • QoT 17.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 3:55 pm

          I want to see Tanz go to some country that’s actually leftwing. She might explode.

        • McFlock 17.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 5:20 pm

          POLS 100 class 1:

          When you have blatantly biased media propaganda media and outright lie to voters, that’s “democracy”.

          When more people vote for anyone even vaguely left-wing than vote for anyone else, that’s “leftist infiltration”.

      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.2
        9 January 2011 at 3:58 pm

        No Tanz, it’s the right that has got a stranglehold on politics the world over. This is due to them owning the MSM and thus being able to control the message.

  18. Blair 18
    9 January 2011 at 4:04 pm

    What a lot of bullcrap!

    Jared Loughlin had NOTHING to do with the Tea Party. He has a video of someone burning the American flag on his website FFS! People who knew him have described him as “left wing”. So cut out the crap about Sarah Palin.

    Gifford is a Blue Dog Democrat. DailyKos had her on a hitlist of their own, complete with a bullseye! In the last couple of days, Kos also posted that Gifford was “dead to me” because of her vote against Pelosi for Speaker. Maybe, just maybe, Loughlin read that and decided to act?!

    I’m sorry to shatter so many well-crafted and bigoted vents of hate against all things Tea Party and Palin, but the shooter is one of your guys (and he killed a Republican Judge too). Deal with it.

    • IrishBill 18.1
      9 January 2011 at 5:04 pm

      Welcome to New Zealand’s blogosphere Blair. What brings you to our neck of the woods?

    • QoT 18.2
      9 January 2011 at 5:22 pm

      It would probably help if you actually got the alleged shooter’s name right in your spin attempts, Blair. When trying to build some kind of credible opposition based on “facts”.

    • Deborah Kean 18.3
      9 January 2011 at 5:22 pm

      Blair, I have no idea who your are, except that you’te almost certainly an American…
      “Gifford is a Blue Dog Democrat. DailyKos had her on a hitlist of their own, complete with a bullseye! In the last couple of days, Kos also posted that Gifford was “dead to me” because of her vote against Pelosi for Speaker. Maybe, just maybe, Loughlin read that and decided to act?!”
      The above is almost word for word what I have just read on an American nutjob site, posted early this morning NZ time.
      You assert that the shooter is “one of your guys” which shows staggering ignorance of the site you’re writing on. The Standard and people on it, bear no resemblance to what right wing Americans call “left wing”..
      Deb

      • IrishBill 18.3.1
        9 January 2011 at 5:39 pm

        It’s posted from Arkansas and I suspect it’s cut and paste. Possibly from a distributed lines sheet. The freepers are working overtime today.

    • mickysavage 18.4
      9 January 2011 at 6:19 pm

      Does he mean Jared Lee Loughner? Did he get any of the other information right?

      I guess for those who believe that Obama was not born in the US anything is possible.

    • Kevin Campbell 18.5
      9 January 2011 at 7:53 pm

      Blair, dont bother trying to reason logically with inbreds that have accidentally bumped into sophistication.

  19. NameRequired 19
    9 January 2011 at 5:16 pm

    probably a tad early to say at this time if he was tea party or not

    • QoT 19.1
      9 January 2011 at 6:33 pm

      But, as I am happy to keep repeating for as long as it takes, definitely not too early to consider that when an elected representative is literally “targeted” by an opponent using gunsight imagery and talking about “prescribing solutions” to an audience of known extreme fringers … then that opponent needs to own the fuck up about the inappropriateness of that imagery and how they have personally incited and contributed to a culture of violence.

    • Bright Red 19.2
      9 January 2011 at 7:29 pm

      you can’t deny that Palin, Beck and co have brought a language of violence into the US discourse and hinted at ‘second amendment’ solutions to the Democrat ‘problem’.

      You can’t deny that Giffords is one of the people targeted by the leaders of the Tea Party Movement.

  20. Michael 20
    9 January 2011 at 5:16 pm

    You guys apologising for John Hinckley Jr then? And Lee Harvey Oswald as well(you could hardly call him right wing).

    • Craig Glen Eden 20.1
      9 January 2011 at 5:41 pm

      Palin, Beck, Tea Party all nut jobs “God bless America” where health care for all is viewed as Evil.

      Carrying a gun which is ultimately for killing is believed by many as a God given right. This would be the same God who commands that “though shalt not kill”

      This is the Nation that worships money and the love of it yet the Bible clearly teach’s the love of money is the root of all evil.
      The United States of America is seriously mixed up when a person like Sarah Palin is viewed as a Serious candidate to run the country.It seems just like Rome it is endanger of self destruction.

      • Deadly_NZ 20.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 6:46 pm

        Well lets hope the right wing nut jobs don’t get into power or they could use the guns for medical reasons. You broke your leg and your poor BANG.

        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 9:39 pm

          Or, you broke your leg and you’re a Democrat. BANG.

          • McFlock 20.1.1.1.1
            10 January 2011 at 12:21 am

            Somebody paid us to break your legs, here’s the bill for our expenses, and a cash-in-advance invoice for the execution bullet, as per our normal terms and conditions.

            • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1.1.1
              10 January 2011 at 2:13 pm

              And if you could sign this for us, it’ll authorise us to sell both your kidneys on the open market since you will not be requiring their functionality any more.

    • Bright Red 20.2
      9 January 2011 at 7:35 pm

      this post is about how the violent rhetoric of the Tea Party has encouraged violence, including, most likely, the attempted assissination of a US congresswoman.

      It does not say ‘only rightwingers are ever violent’.

  21. john 21
    9 January 2011 at 6:39 pm

    This Sheriff says what is really going on there

    Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking about Arizona:

    “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.html

    • higherstandard 21.1
      9 January 2011 at 7:01 pm

      That’s probably the sanest comment on this whole thread, sounds like a good cop.

      • Zorr 21.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 7:09 pm

        And you are the biggest cocksnot. You sound like a complete fucktard.

        [lprent: That was completely pointless abuse. You’re lucky I was elsewhere yesterday and Marty saw it before I did. You’d have received a cooldown. ]

        • higherstandard 21.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 7:36 pm

          Delightful – where’s a moderator when you need one.

        • Marty G 21.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 7:41 pm

          unhelpful and uncalled for Zorr. Don’t do it again.

          • higherstandard 21.1.1.2.1
            9 January 2011 at 7:47 pm

            Thanks Marty.

            • Zorr 21.1.1.2.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 8:21 pm

              Sorry. Just… been expecting something like this for a long time and the obfuscation coming out of the US from the likes of FOX News, Palin, Glenn Beck, John McCain and their supporters is just infuriating.

              It is obvious from the initial research in to the guy that he is a genuine crazy. The important question to ask is “why did he choose to attack Giffords and who inspired him to do so?” Saying that the Democrats and their supporters espouse the same violent rhetoric as the Republicans/Tea Party types is a demonstrably false equivalency.

              • higherstandard …
                9 January 2011 at 8:43 pm

                Zorr

                Whomever is in opposition seems to be the most active in terms of violent rhetoric – certainly at the moment that is those towards the red side in the US political scheme but those on the blue side were just as vile when Bush and the republican were in power.

                It’s the same vitriol, but to a lesser extent, espoused by the activist and politically active groups in NZ depending who’s in power

                • Zorr …
                  9 January 2011 at 8:51 pm

                  I have to disagree. Democrat representatives have never espoused “Second Amendment remedies”. Telling people that it is okay to use their guns is a form of domestic terrorism and is even more so after this incident.

    • Bright Red 21.2
      9 January 2011 at 7:37 pm

      you encourage violence and eventually one of your unhinged followers acts – simple as that.

    • Inventory2 21.3
      9 January 2011 at 8:00 pm

      Prejudice and bigotry are not the sole preserve of the right …

  22. Zorr 22
    9 January 2011 at 7:09 pm

    For those who care, a list of the dead. This doesn’t include those in critical condition (that includes Gabrielle Giffords) but it does include a 9-year old child.

    http://www.kvoa.com/news/pcso-identifies-the-6-killed-in-shooting/

    Honestly, fuck you Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin and the stupid fucked up horse you rode in on (FOX News).

  23. Pascal's bookie 23
    9 January 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Local cops are looking for a second suspect…

    8:13 P.M. Officials Looking for Second Suspect in Shooting
    Officials in Arizona are looking for a second suspect in the shooting just outside of Tucson but declined to elaborate other than to say they have a picture of the person and would like to find him

    Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik said there is “some reason to believe” that the 22-year-old suspect they have in custody did not act alone.

    “He has kind of a troubled past, I can tell you that,” Mr. Dupnik said of the person in custody. He would not reveal his name, though many reports have said he is Jared Lee Loughner.

    “We are not convinced that he acted alone. There is some reason to believe that he came to this location with another individual. That the other individual may in some way be involved.”

    But the sheriff said that he could not disclose more information. “As much as we would like to find this person, and we have pictures of him” he declined to provide information.

    The sheriff later said that the second suspect was a white man in his 50s.

    Cite

  24. Kevin Campbell 24
    9 January 2011 at 7:38 pm

    EDDIE

    What brain cell sparked you into this inane link between patriots and the murdering nutcase that purpetrated this senseless violence?

    The fact that THE STANDARD allows this total gob shite proves pond scum are alive and well in the NZ political environment.

    • Marty G 24.1
      9 January 2011 at 7:48 pm

      let us count the links between this action and the Tea Party.

      Palin identifies Giffords with a target
      Her Tea Party opponent at the recent election wrote “target victory … remove Gabrielle Giffords … shoot a fully automatic M16.”
      An angry Tea Party audience member at the Giffords event had a weapon drop form his trousers while speaking
      The Tea Party has been constantly hinting at violent action to counter supposed attacks on the Constitution by the Democrats led by Obama and warned that he is planning a socialist revolution
      Giffords supported Obama’s healthcare reforms
      Laughner’s youtube video references ‘treasonous’ laws made by the government – as have the Tea Party leaders (Coulter wrote a book called Treason)
      Laughner says the revolutionaries have taken control, referring to Obama and his supporters like Giffords
      Laughner talks about the need for a gold standard – a Beck favourite (Beck has interests in a company that sells monetary gold)

      Laughner certainly seems to be unhinged but the rhetoric of the Tea Party has formed a basis for his actions.

      • Kevin Campbell 24.1.1
        9 January 2011 at 8:04 pm

        Marty,

        Shall we sit down and total up the number of murderers that have voted Labour against those that have voted National over the years?

        What a lame arse and disgracefully pathetic attempt to gain poltical advantage this post and your comments are. You should take several valium and lie down.

        • Marty G 24.1.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 8:15 pm

          There is no claim in my comement or the post that only Rightwingers are violent. The argument is that the Tea Party’s rheotric has inspired violence from its unhinged followers. Try to get the difference.

          • mickysavage 24.1.1.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 8:34 pm

            Where is Kevin from?

            • Marty G 24.1.1.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 8:47 pm

              domestic. we don’t usually go into people’s locations. It was just interesting when the Tea Party targeted us so quickly.

              • RedLogix …
                9 January 2011 at 9:06 pm

                What is most telling is that the USA is a nation of huge political diversity. Every conceivable extreme of opinion. But when events like this occur, we have new and vociferous vsitors from just one narrow segment of that diversity.

                Besides, while Kevin Campbell appears domestic, there are aspects that around him that are interesting.

                • Inventory2 …
                  9 January 2011 at 9:21 pm

                  Kevin Campbell is an Actoid with a strong and public dislike of Rodney Hide. I doubt that this dislike is strong enough to turn him into a Laughner though.

                  [Thanks.. that does more or less make sense. Event’s like this do tend to agitate my bs detector a little…RL]

          • Speaking Sense To Unions 24.1.1.1.2
            9 January 2011 at 9:15 pm

            any evidence that Loughner is a Tea Party follower?

        • Zorr 24.1.1.2
          9 January 2011 at 8:16 pm

          Or we could look at the driving motivators behind the crime instead of raising strawmen as you seem to want to do. You could actually engage with the issue at hand, admit that a tragedy like this was just a matter of law enforcement being unlucky once and a nutter (for that is what he is) getting lucky. This is not the first instance of violence being attempted due to the rhetoric employed by FOX News and their cronies, just the first example of a successful one.

    • RedLogix 24.2
      9 January 2011 at 8:26 pm

      As predicted abover Marty, subsequent attempts have proven to be a lot more sophisticated. “Mr Kevin Campbell” has a most interesting provenance.

  25. logie97 25
    9 January 2011 at 7:57 pm

    @marty 12:44

    There appears to be evidence from discussions above that this thread is truly global. I appreciate that that is the nature of the internet – comments can be read from anywhere.

    However, does that mean that commenters should have open entry?

    It would be nice to think that threads on most topics on this site are local. One assumes that the system could filter out non-residents and consign them to the bin.

    Captcha: proofs

  26. Vicky32 26
    9 January 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Just before I go and get dinner – I want to report that the tin foil hat site were all over the shooter’s Facebook profile that showed him as a “liberal” – yelling with joyful relief that his FB profile showed he couldn’t possibly be a Tea Partier.
    Until someone showed that the FB page was a fake put up 45 minutes after Loughner was already in custody. But what’s the betting that RWNJs will be pointing to the fake FB page for some time to come, as “proof” of his being a “liberal”?
    Deb

  27. Danyl Mclauchlan 27
    9 January 2011 at 8:30 pm

    I had a look at the youtube video – there’s some gold standard rhetoric, but also a lot of inductive logic (not a strong point of the tea party movement), post-modern ideas about government mind-control via ‘grammer’ and (I think) lucid dreaming. To me this doesn’t point towards the tea-party, it points towards an undiagnosed, un-medicated paranoid schizophrenic.

    • Zorr 27.1
      9 January 2011 at 8:32 pm

      My thoughts as to the origins of this is that the shooter is truly disturbed but was taken advantage of by others. They are searching for accomplices.

    • QoT 27.2
      9 January 2011 at 8:39 pm

      Oh, Danyl, must you too join the ranks of the unimaginative “only a Crazy Person would do this!!!” clairvoyant psychiatrists? Perfectly “sane” people belief bizarre shit all the time. Perfectly “sane” people commit violent crime. A perfectly “sane” person in the anti-intellect violence-inciting-propaganda-filled atmosphere of United States tea party politics is quite capable of recording videos about conspiracy theories and then shooting people.

    • Marty G 27.3
      9 January 2011 at 8:45 pm

      The guy’s clearly nuts, the fact that he shot 17 people is evidence enough of that.

      But his writing also clearly illustrates the influence of the violent rhetoric of the Tea party movement.
      As does the fact that he acted out his violence in a manner prescribed by Tea Party rhetoric – ie. his violence was political and targeted at an enemy of the tea Party movement.

      Also, he had an accomplice, which doesn’t point to the lone crazy guy excuse you’re buying.

      • QoT 27.3.1
        9 January 2011 at 8:53 pm

        the lone crazy guy excuse you’re buying.

        I beg your fucking pardon? Sorry, I’m just all over the place today trying to explain why making assumptions about people’s mental health based on prejudiced notions about “rationality” and “normalcy” is both presumptuous and offensive.

        What you are buying into is the notion that Normal People Don’t Do Things Like This, a wonderful excuse for all occasions when you want to marginalise and invalidate people’s thoughts, feelings and actions. Which may seem fine and fucking dandy when we’re talking about Obviously Nuts People, but could you think for one fucking moment about the people who live with actual, diagnosed by doctors rather than people on the Internet mental illness every fucking day who get pretty much the same assumptions made about their thoughts, feelings and actions?

        What am I saying, I’m on the blog where people like to pretend “schizophrenic” exists in a mental-illness-connotations-free vacuum and it’s somehow a clever argument to write off Cameron Slater because he has depression rather than take the minimal effort to refute his bullshit.

        • Marty G 27.3.1.1
          9 January 2011 at 9:24 pm

          “What you are buying into is the notion that Normal People Don’t Do Things Like This, a wonderful excuse for all occasions when you want to marginalise and invalidate people’s thoughts, feelings and actions.”

          Shooting 17 people, killing six, even if your actual actions have been shaped by political rhetoric is an example of “invalid toughts, feelings and actions”. That doesn’t mean all mentally ill people engage in such actions.

          I’m saying that, by definition, taking the law into your own hands and killing six people including a little girl because of your screwed up political notions isn’t within the spectrum of normal human behaviour. And his writing – a mental health specialist has already said it shows signs of mental illness.

          Please don’t take that as ‘all mentally ill people are violent and dangerous’ because it clearly says no such thing. Just as it doesn’t say that all tea party followers are violent murderers.

          • QoT 27.3.1.1.1
            9 January 2011 at 9:29 pm

            Gee, Marty, because basing notions of “normalcy” on “what most people do” isn’t seriously fucking problematic.

            It’s ironic, though, how in a post about tea partiers contributing to a culture of violence – not by saying “shoot all these people” but just, you know, implying they should all be dealt with in some way – you’re going to act like your own implications about what constitutes “obvious” mental illness doesn’t likewise contribute to a culture of ableism.

            • Marty G 27.3.1.1.1.1
              9 January 2011 at 10:07 pm

              not all mentally ill people act violently. I am not, repeat not, saying that mentally ill people are all like Laughner. I am not stereotyping mentally ill people as being like Laughner – any more than someone seeing a person performing a kapa haka and says ‘that person is probably Maori’ is saying that all Maori perform kapa haka.

              A mental health expert has already said that Laughner’s writing points to mental illness.

              The whole problem with the Tea Party’s rhetoric of violence is not that it will provoke most people but that it will become a driver for people with violent fantasies to act on them.

              • QoT …
                9 January 2011 at 10:15 pm

                Marty, you don’t need to say “I’m not saying [thing you are clearly not saying].” The whole point of contributing to ableist discourse is exactly like what Sarah Palin did, i.e. making indirect statements that feed into a wider cultural set of assumptions.

                “Signs” of mental illness =/= mental illness.
                “Points to” mental illness =/= mental illness.

                Which of course is a distraction from the main point anyway: you are making assumptions about a person’s mental health based on bullshit notions of “normalcy” and because it’s an easy, lazy way to mark this person out as Not Worth Really Thinking About.

                “Normal” people believe propaganda and conspiracy theories and pick up guns and kill people all the time. For money, for land, for ideals. Writing off this guy as “obviously nuts” is about your intellectual snobbery and prejudice against mental illness.

                (I have no doubt that should this guy prove to actually have documented, properly-diagnosed mental illness you’ll feel very smug. You’ll still be judgemental and prejudiced.)

                • Marty G …
                  9 January 2011 at 10:27 pm

                  I’m not prejudiced against people with mental illness, QoT and this misrepresentation of what i’m saying, clearly arising from your prejudices and over-sensitivities, is unjustified.

                  ““Normal” people believe propaganda and conspiracy theories and pick up guns and kill people all the time.”

                  there are some political environments where mass homicide is a ‘normal’ form of political action (Pakistan, Palestine, etc). US domestic politics has not been like that for generations. Witness the Tea Party trying to distance itself – even it does perceive the realisation of its rhetoric as legitimate.

                  • QoT …
                    9 January 2011 at 10:38 pm

                    prejudices and over-sensitivities

                    Oh, Marty. How sweet of you to try to play turn-around and throw in a mildly-gendered insult into the bargain.

                    You’re making assumptions.
                    These assumptions fit in with a culture of prejudice against people with mental illness.
                    That’s shitty.

                    That’s all I’m saying. And it’s clearly borne out by everything you’ve said here (and previously, too!). But no, clearly I’m just an over-sensitive woman who hates you because … um … I’m sure you’ll come up with some reason in your own time.

                    • Marty G …
                      9 January 2011 at 11:03 pm

                      it has nothing to do with your gender, which I don’t know or care about. you’re just attempting a misdirection.

                      I don’t think you hate me, I think you have strong reactions over anything to do with mental illness and I don’t know or care what the root cause of that is.

                      I’m not saying ‘all mentally ill people are violent and dangerous, therefore that mentally ill guy is going to shoot 17 people’ – because that would be prejudice against mentally ill people.

                      I’m making the assumption that to do these kinds of actions the person is probably ill, and the particular shape of his actions (and even their realisation at all) has been shaped by Tea Party rhetoric.

                    • McFlock …
                      10 January 2011 at 12:41 am

                      Marty.

                      I get that you’re not saying that every mentally ill person might kill.

                      I do have an issue with the concept that only mentally ill people might kill.

                      We work within our environment, our perceptual distortions (which might not be to the degree of a clinical mental disorder), and our ability to put two and two together.

                      If we live off Fox news, our environment is distorted, our perceptions are influenced by this experiential distortion and we could end up committing nutbar acts from a perfectly rational point of origin. Especially if we have someone encouraging us face to face, and are socially committed to the act by a nice little internet video. We’d be wrong, but we’d still be completely “sane”.

                    • QoT …
                      10 January 2011 at 5:45 pm

                      Marty, you protest too much. You’re in fact confirming everything I’ve been saying, it’s just that you don’t see why it’s really douchey to assume to diagnose other people’s mental conditions.

                      Handily, you’re also factually wrong on those assumptions; but because I’m blowed if I’ll explain it just for the edification of someone making really swell insinuations about my own neurochemistry, you’ll just have to check out my post on the subject.

                    • Eddie …
                      10 January 2011 at 10:03 pm

                      Marty hasn’t made any mention of your mental state or your sex. None of this is about you personally.

                    • felix …
                      11 January 2011 at 10:14 am

                      Marty, you’re missing this so widely it has to be wilful and I can’t believe I have to come out of hibernation to point out the obvious bullshit of the position you’ve taken.

                      When you say “The guy’s clearly nuts, the fact that he shot 17 people is evidence enough of that.” you’re very clearly saying that only a mentally ill person could possibly be capable of doing such a thing.

                      If you can think of any – and I mean any, no matter how ridiculous – other way to interpret that statement, I’d love to hear it.

                    • Armchair Critic …
                      11 January 2011 at 2:30 pm

                      Marty
                      I’m firmly of the opinion that it is not right to link mental illness to the actions of the gunman, because:
                      (a) the gunman may not have been mentally ill, and
                      (b) even if he was, his mental illness may not have influenced his actions, and
                      (c) making this link perpetuates myths about mental illness, and
                      (d) bring the issue of mental illness distracts from the main issues, which are:
                      (1) the people he killed and wounded, and
                      (2) the role that the Tea Party had in encouraging this kind of action.
                      Your attempted defence of what may well have been an ill-considered phrase in a comment doesn’t wash – can I commend to you a small dose of humble pie? We all make mistakes at times, but perpetuating this one, IMO, does you no favours.

                    • QoT …
                      12 January 2011 at 8:12 am

                      Marty hasn’t made any mention of your mental state or your sex. None of this is about you personally.

                      Eddie … I really want you to just think, for a moment, about how amazingly cliched a response this is to a woman who is being told she has “obvious issues” and is probably quite justified in taking personal things personally. What groups in society are traditionally criticised for “taking things personally” and “being oversensitive”? This isn’t Radical Marxist Feminism 440 or anything.

      • Hollyfield 27.3.2
        9 January 2011 at 9:34 pm

        Pascal’s bookie at 7.37 wrote:
        The sheriff later said that the second suspect was a white man in his 50s.

        Based on the age of Loughner, my suspicion is that the second suspect could be his father. (My apologies to Mr Loughner snr if I’m wrong!)

        “The authorities were seen entering the Loughner family house about five miles from the shooting scene. Investigators said they were looking for a possible accomplice, believed to be in his 50s.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?_r=1&hp Sentences within a single paragraph should be related – so is it a coincidence that Loughner family house and accomplice are in the same paragraph?

        Here are some other father-son examples from the US:

        Father and son who bombed a bank in Oregan:
        SALEM, Ore. — A jury Wednesday recommended that a father and son be sentenced to death for planting a bomb that exploded inside an Oregon bank two years ago, killing two police officers and maiming a third. In a trial that spanned three months, prosecutors portrayed Bruce and Joshua Turnidge as bigoted men who hated authorities, were desperate for money and feared that newly elected President Barack Obama would take away their guns. http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_16923976#ixzz1AWXmL6J8

        Washington snipers John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo:
        Mr Malvo, meanwhile, had arrived in America from Kingston, Jamaica with his mother, Una James in 1998. In October 1991 they arrived in Bellingham, and fell in with Mr Muhammad, who started dating Mr Malvo’s mother and began to exert a warped influence over Mr Malvo, who became a surrogate son. In December last year Mrs James called the Bellingham police to complain about Mr Muhammad’s control over her son, and his demands that he eat only crackers and honey and diet supplements. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article817827.ece

    • Speaking Sense To Unions 27.4
      9 January 2011 at 9:02 pm

      spooky how intensely our own local version of the Tea Party has to shovel this into their World View without knowing what actually went on.

  28. Anne 28
    9 January 2011 at 8:59 pm

    RedLogix said”
    “Mr Kevin Campbell” has a most interesting provenance.”

    We can take it from that he is one of Girlfriday’s Tea Party superiors brought into the fray to defend the indefensible?

    My oh my… what a desperate, disparate bunch of w—–s.

    [I’m not certain at this point.. he does appear domestic. But appearances are not all….RL]

    • wasi 28.1
      10 January 2011 at 1:10 pm

      the Kevin Campbell that i know was the Alliance candidate in the Taranaki-King Country by-election in 1998…he is a lawyer and a devout catholic…he was very socially conservative and leaned to the right on many policy issues.

      • lprent 28.1.1
        10 January 2011 at 2:10 pm

        It is a common name in politics here apparently. All I did was google for people of that name in NZ and got a hit on a ex-MP’s wikipedia page and this linkedin page.

        http://nz.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Kevin/Campbell/

        Speculating on who it is tends to be faintly ridiculous when you’re just looking at a name (which may even be a pseudonym) and where we won’t give out information that is required to decide which one it is. You should read the policy privacy section.

        If I see more speculation on identity, then someone is likely to have a wee holiday from the site

  29. prism 29
    9 January 2011 at 10:03 pm

    “It is time to water the Tree of Liberty.”
    This is not as rabble-rousing as Jefferson’s quote as described above but pissing on the Tree of Liberty doesn’t seem in keeping with the sentiment of devotion and ideals expressed by all sundry.

    The USA sounds a bit like an ‘undeveloped’ country with ill-informed, bigoted peasants on one side following their own arcane rituals and the wealthy living wealthy, fortunate lives on the other. The role of the shit stirrer who doesn’t do any violence him or herself but plays on the latent anger and unhappiness of vulnerable people to vitalise them against some people assigned to be scapegoats is one of the most despicable behaviours of humans.

  30. john 30
    9 January 2011 at 10:16 pm

    there was a Kevin Campbell who was a Alliance MP

    [No I don’t think this is the same person at all. Normally we don’t allow speculation on exactly who people are, but in this case Kevin Campbell does appear to have posted openly under a name that is in the public domain …RL]

  31. john 31
    10 January 2011 at 12:39 am

    heres a interesting story… Tea Party Activism Tied to Extremists and Turning Violent

    http://www.politicalaffairs.net/report-tea-party-activism-tied-to-extremists-and-turning-violent/

  32. Danyl Mclauchlan 32
    10 January 2011 at 7:25 am

    Oh, Danyl, must you too join the ranks of the unimaginative “only a Crazy Person would do this!!!” clairvoyant psychiatrists? Perfectly “sane” people belief bizarre shit all the time. Perfectly “sane” people commit violent crime.

    I think the number of ‘perfectly sane’ people who commit mass-murder on the ground that the government is using grammar to brainwash everyone is actually pretty low.
    But the point you’re trying to make is that sane people commit acts of political violence – this is true in a trivial sense. But my amateurs impression of the youtube video is that it has all the characteristics of a mentally ill individual.

    • NickS 32.1
      10 January 2011 at 8:14 am

      The problem with inductive logic is that when you’re missing major bits of evidence, it tends to suck unless you apply the usual critical thinking tools to it. And in this case, we only have a small slice of his online activities available on top of the shooting incident, which as others have stated otherwise sane individuals tend to go on as well, but also his material thus far shown looks just like a person trying to grapple with po-mo concepts, but with out the tool kit to sort out the stupid shit*, along with ye olde fringe American Right concepts and a ton of anger. Thus while it might look like there’s a firm case for calling him “nutso”, there are factors which underdetermine any attempt at an ad-hoc diagnosis**, such as the lack of info about his day to day interactions and other online activities over time.

      And the “over time” is a key bit, as schizophrenia suffers have characteristic changes over time from non sufferer to various forms, which from memory is one the diagnostic indicators.

      Anyhow, I’m running late for work.

      _____________
      * Also seen in academia.
      ** Which you should leave to the professionals, because most times people only see the symptoms they want to see, leading to scores of self-diagnosed aspies, who art merely socially inept. Or assuming that mass murder + angry, incoherent videos = mentally ill

      • higherstandard 32.1.1
        10 January 2011 at 10:15 am

        All that is known about this fellow at present is the following.

        – apparently acted alone.
        – former classmates have described him as disturbed, a loner and given too odd outbursts, others have said he just kept to himself and his only friends were other band members at school.
        – has posted some very odd clips on youtube.
        – has been reported as using illicit drugs.
        – was known to law enforcement.
        – refused enrollment in military service.

        Of these the most interesting and the one that makes me wonder about his mental state is the last, it will be interesting if they ever release his medical history which would perhaps be very informative. There is no doubt that he is certainly very disturbed.

        • NickS 32.1.1.1
          10 January 2011 at 5:53 pm

          – refused enrollment in military service.

          That one is interesting, but because we don’t know why, it doesn’t help, as it could just as easily be physical health issue(s) or historical actions by him, rather than mental health issues, and even if we go with mental health issues there’s a whole range of factors that could get someone refused. And no, the US Army doesn’t just take anyone, even with the numbers issues there’s still a whole range of things that can get you excluded from enrolling.

        • QoT 32.1.1.2
          12 January 2011 at 8:15 am

          Why do you have to “wonder” about his “mental state” at all?

          People with mental illness are literally no more likely to commit acts of violence than neurotypical people (linked above, no time before dashing to work to retrieve it!)

          As for being refused entry into the military, I have multiple NZ acquaintances who didn’t get in, and it was because they were “disturbed” or “obviously nuts”, it was because their personalities were not a fit for military service.

  33. happynz 33
    10 January 2011 at 8:54 am

    TV3 of course led their 6 o’clock news broadcast with the Arizona shootings. They incorrectly stated that Jared Lee Loughner was an Afghanistan veteran. He was not a veteran. He did indeed try to enlist but he was turned down. This information was made public long before TV3 went to air at 6 o’clock.

    TV3 does a good job with sport and weather, but not much else.

    • Colonial Viper 33.1
      10 January 2011 at 6:05 pm

      TV3 does a good job with sport and weather, but not much else.

      Their coverage of celebrity marriages is usually OK.

  34. erentz 34
    10 January 2011 at 9:43 am

    When are the saner parts of America finally going to say, screw this, time for secession. At some point surely the Pacific and North East states have to recognise that patriotic feelings and tradition are just not worth it anymore, that they are being held back, having their quality of life erroded by these nutjob bible thumping states that can’t think straight. (This would either be bad for jesusland, allowing it to spin off even further into insanity — or it might snap it into sensibility. Either way it would be completely marginalised on the worlds political stages.)

    • Gosman 34.1
      10 January 2011 at 2:11 pm

      What a completely ignorant analysis of the US.

      The parts that you claim to be the saner parts of the US are among the worse in terms of their economic position. California for example has massive budgetary issues. Many of the states you decry and label as ‘Jesusland’ are economically dynamic.

      As far as I can tell there is little to distinguish intellectually between a religious fundamentalist in the deep south of the US versus some New Age following Greeny in Souther California. They both believe in some wacky ideas.

      Regardless of this the ideas individuals hold personally doesn’t necessarily make any difference to the well being of society as a whole. Certainly you can’t claim this for the Religousity of Americans.

      • Colonial Viper 34.1.1
        10 January 2011 at 2:19 pm

        Many of the states you decry and label as ‘Jesusland’ are economically dynamic.

        Don’t think so. If you can, name 4 such states with U-6 underemployment under 15% please.

        By the way, Texas – a homestead of Republican conservatism and oil wealth – state budget is about to come unhinged

        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/07/opinion/07krugman.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

        • Gosman 34.1.1.1
          10 January 2011 at 2:37 pm

          http://www.bls.gov/opub/gp/pdf/gp09_chart1.pdf

          As of 2009 the states that erentz suggests should break away from the US on the whole have a higher unemployment rate than much of the rest of the country. Certainly States such as Texas, Arkansas, Virginia, and Kansas (Bible belt country) have lower rates.

          Even if we look at the U6 rates (http://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm) you have decided to use as your yard stick, Bible Belt States such as Texas, Oklahoma, Virginia, and West Virginia as well as non Pacific and North Eastern States such North and South Dakota have lower rates than 15%. This is much better than most of the Pacific and North Eastern States.

        • Gosman 34.1.1.2
          10 January 2011 at 2:46 pm

          Just looking at those figures the Pacific coast is one of the worst economically. California, Oregan, and Washington State have U6 Unemployment figures of 22.1, 20.2, and 18.1 % respectively. Perhaps they should break away from the Union so the rest of the country can do much better economically.

          • Colonial Viper 34.1.1.2.1
            10 January 2011 at 3:18 pm

            Perhaps they should break away from the Union so the rest of the country can do much better economically.

            Only if the Union thinks it can do better economically by losing companies like Intel, Apple, Oracle and Boeing.

            Mind you what you are suggesting is the equivalent of a free market asset strip – dump operations viewed as unprofitable or undesirable and in doing so make the rest look better.

            • Gosman 34.1.1.2.1.1
              10 January 2011 at 4:36 pm

              I notice you aren’t disputing that the Pacific coast is not doing as well economically, (as determined by your own choice of statistics), as a number of States in the so called “Jesusland” area of the the US.

              Also you have no idea about the concept of asset stripping. The key is to sell off the more valuable aspects of a business when the whole has less value than the individual components.

              • Blighty …
                10 January 2011 at 4:55 pm

                Gosman. The Coast states have been hard hit by recession but they’re still a hell of a lot wealthier per capita than flyover country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita_%28nominal%29

                • Gosman …
                  11 January 2011 at 9:54 am

                  Historically they have been wealthier but they are no longer as dynamic economically as many of the other parts of the States. It is like Japan now. It is still wealthier on a per capita basis than China but China is more dynamic and is cathcing up fast.

              • Colonial Viper …
                10 January 2011 at 5:24 pm

                Also you have no idea about the concept of asset stripping. The key is to sell off the more valuable aspects of a business when the whole has less value than the individual components.

                Uh that’s pretty much what I said. Get rid of the undesirable parts of the business to make the remainder look better (for sale).

                • Gosman …
                  11 January 2011 at 9:51 am

                  That’s not Asset stripping. As stated, it is when you sell of the valuable, (i.e. the DESIRABLE), parts of a business because they are worth more than the company as a whole. After Asset stripping there is usually not much left of the original business.

          • Blighty 34.1.1.2.2
            10 January 2011 at 4:13 pm

            yeah, let Georgia, Tennessee, Missouri etc strike out on their own – they’ll do great!

      • erentz 34.1.2
        10 January 2011 at 6:00 pm

        Looks like some others have responded to you regarding your economic argument.

        So let’s forget economic arguments because it’s hard to dispute these states would survive and thrive perfectly well economically if they split off from the union (even if they do have some debt issues at this time) — what about the non-economic reasons for why secession might be good for these states? Are differing opinions on how people should be governed, healthcare, foreign policy, education, etc. not important? It seems there is a fairly distinct difference between the preferred policies of people in the Pacific/Northeast states and those in the Middle/South states (sorry if my use of ‘jesusland’ offended you). The people in the Pacific/Northeast states should have the right to assert themselves and get the kind of policies they want.

        Now I would probably agree with you if you were to make an argument that this might be bad for the well being of the people in the Middle/South states because their craziness would no longer be tempered by the Pacific/Northeast states, but like a women in an abusive relationship, I don’t think she should should stick around because her abuser’s wellbeing might suffer without her.

        As for asset stripping — again, forget the economics, this is about policy issues: if the majority in the Pacific states want better healthcare why shouldn’t they be able to bring this about for themselves? How can they create a better life in those regards if they don’t seceed? The only other answer would be a serious overhaul of the federal election system, which would be far more difficult to achieve than secession.

        • Gosman 34.1.2.1
          11 January 2011 at 9:48 am

          You really don’t understand the U.S system of government at all.

          The country is a federal republic where the individual States have an incredible amount of autonomy in setting their own fiscal policy priorities.

          If a State like California wishes to set up a publically funded health sector then there is very little stopping them doing so except a lack of cash and/or political will.

          States certainly don’t need to secceed fronm the Union to achieve what you think is a good thing.

          • erentz 34.1.2.1.1
            11 January 2011 at 7:39 pm

            Gosman, I understand the US system perfectly well thank you. Let’s not ignore the fact that the federal government is now involved in just about everything, there’s no clear demarcation between state and federal responsibilities. States are paying huge federal taxes, but representation that decides how to spend that tax is not fair or proportional (e.g. stupid shit like not spending your tax dollars on stem cell research because some nutjob fundies can’t get a grip, or going to war, etc).

            Evolving the electoral system to allow wider and more proportional representation would be great* and go a long way to solving the problems. But I think doing that would be harder than seceding.

            * My thoughts on that: having the elections run by a federal agency rather than each state. It is ridiculous that the opinion of someone doesn’t count because they’re in a blue or red state or district. So 1) make the presidential election a popular STV style vote, 2) make senate elections an STV vote in each state, 3) make representative elections an STV vote with large districts that elect a minimum of 5 representatives so minority groups are no longer unreasonably marginalised without representation. (Alternatively consider a MMP style system for the house, but that’s probably even harder) Set a 12 year term limit for the senate and house. Increase the terms for the house from 2 years to 4 years, reduce the senate terms to 4 years, and synchronise these with the presidential elections. Reduce the powers of the senate with regards to legislative activities to make the house almost entirely responsible for this, thus laws and taxes and the like that affect all US residents equally are handled with fair representation, while the senate is responsible for the checks and balances of the administration and things like the supreme court and doing things like foreign policy, treaties, what have you.

            • Gosman 34.1.2.1.1.1
              12 January 2011 at 9:15 am

              There is no ground swell of opinion in the US to change the political system at the moment. There may well be at some stage in the future but until there is then they have to put up with what they have got. On the whole the US seems happy with the political system they have anyway.

              You ignore the point I made that if individual State’s want to adopt policies such as a universal health system then they are free to do so under the current arrangements. In fact I believe Massachusetts has something along these lines already.

              As for your position that the current arrangement leads to situations where Stem Cell research cannot progress, I could equally argue that NZ political arrangement has led to GM crops being stopped from being commercialised just because of the objections of some unscientific Greenies.

              Your views that the Pacific and North Eastern States should consider breaking away because somehow they are being held back therefire doesn’t really hold water.

              • Bright Red …
                12 January 2011 at 9:24 am

                “On the whole the US seems happy with the political system they have anyway.”

                Actually, they seem incredibly disenchanted. They’re switching from democratic to republican and back every few years. They tried tearing up the rule book by electing an african-american whose promises bioeld down simply to ‘change’ – which shows how desperately they want change. Now, the Right has spawned a reactionary (and increasingly violent) movement, so familiar to students of history looking at how other powers in decline have torn themselves apart.

  35. Blighty 35
    10 January 2011 at 4:54 pm

    The information coming out points to Laughner being a Randriod.

    Just a couple of weeks ago he asked Giffords in a public q+a session “What is government if words have no meaning?”

    That’s a very Objectivist thing to say – the idea that there is fundamental truth that is obsecured by the language and culture of socialisation spread by statists and swallowed by the ‘sheep’. Apparently, Laughner is obsessed by this concept of fundamental ‘Objective’ truth and how government stops people achieving it.

    Some people think that since he’s an atheist he can’t be rightwing but they forget that any true Objectivst is atheist, just like Rand.

    • Pascal's bookie 35.1
      10 January 2011 at 5:03 pm

      Try this:

      http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47329.html

      David Wynn Miller.

      I’ve not heard of the guy, but he looks to be more akin to the ‘sovereign citizen’ crowd than the objectivists…

      • Blighty 35.1.1
        10 January 2011 at 5:11 pm

        that sovereign citizen thing sounds a lot like Objectivism though – all far out rightwing stuff, that basically boils down to ‘i’m a super man, stopping holding me down, parasites’

        • higherstandard 35.1.1.1
          10 January 2011 at 5:37 pm

          I was thinking the more information that comes out about him the more he sounds like a severely disturbed young man – the continued efforts by section of the right and left leaning political tragics trying to label him as a rightee or leftee is all a bit of a fucking sideshow.

          • Blighty 35.1.1.1.1
            11 January 2011 at 8:53 am

            more from Krugman’s column for you HS:

            “It’s true that the shooter in Arizona appears to have been mentally troubled. But that doesn’t mean that his act can or should be treated as an isolated event, having nothing to do with the national climate.

            Last spring Politico.com reported on a surge in threats against members of Congress, which were already up by 300 percent. A number of the people making those threats had a history of mental illness — but something about the current state of America has been causing far more disturbed people than before to act out their illness by threatening, or actually engaging in, political violence.

            And there’s not much question what has changed. As Clarence Dupnik, the sheriff responsible for dealing with the Arizona shootings, put it, it’s “the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business.” The vast majority of those who listen to that toxic rhetoric stop short of actual violence, but some, inevitably, cross that line.
            ..
            The point is that there’s room in a democracy for people who ridicule and denounce those who disagree with them; there isn’t any place for eliminationist rhetoric, for suggestions that those on the other side of a debate must be removed from that debate by whatever means necessary.

            And it’s the saturation of our political discourse — and especially our airwaves — with eliminationist rhetoric that lies behind the rising tide of violence.

            Where’s that toxic rhetoric coming from? Let’s not make a false pretense of balance: it’s coming, overwhelmingly, from the right. It’s hard to imagine a Democratic member of Congress urging constituents to be “armed and dangerous” without being ostracized; but Representative Michele Bachmann, who did just that, is a rising star in the G.O.P.

            And there’s a huge contrast in the media. Listen to Rachel Maddow or Keith Olbermann, and you’ll hear a lot of caustic remarks and mockery aimed at Republicans. But you won’t hear jokes about shooting government officials or beheading a journalist at The Washington Post. Listen to Glenn Beck or Bill O’Reilly, and you will.

            Of course, the likes of Mr. Beck and Mr. O’Reilly are responding to popular demand. Citizens of other democracies may marvel at the American psyche, at the way efforts by mildly liberal presidents to expand health coverage are met with cries of tyranny and talk of armed resistance. Still, that’s what happens whenever a Democrat occupies the White House, and there’s a market for anyone willing to stoke that anger.

            But even if hate is what many want to hear, that doesn’t excuse those who pander to that desire. They should be shunned by all decent people.

            Unfortunately, that hasn’t been happening: the purveyors of hate have been treated with respect, even deference, by the G.O.P. establishment. As David Frum, the former Bush speechwriter, has put it, “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us and now we’re discovering we work for Fox.”

            So will the Arizona massacre make our discourse less toxic? It’s really up to G.O.P. leaders. Will they accept the reality of what’s happening to America, and take a stand against eliminationist rhetoric? Or will they try to dismiss the massacre as the mere act of a deranged individual, and go on as before?

            If Arizona promotes some real soul-searching, it could prove a turning point. If it doesn’t, Saturday’s atrocity will be just the beginning. ”

            [lprent: How about linking to it? I tend to cut comments with massive quotes. It is safer for your comment to put in a link and quote smaller sections than it is to drop bloody great hunks of quoted material here. The site is for putting up your thoughts rather than someone elses.

            Check out how Draco did it here

            Consider yourself warned. ]

            • higherstandard 35.1.1.1.1.1
              11 January 2011 at 9:13 am

              Krugman’s a clever guy.

              There is no doubt most of the toxic rhetoric is from the GOP side at the moment, however there does seem to be a short memory in relation to the same toxic rhetoric from the other side when Bush was in charge.

              I’m still of the opinion that the efforts of each side in US political media to put this chap in each others camp is a sideshow and pretty sick.

              • Blighty …
                11 January 2011 at 9:20 am

                Yeah, I’m struggling to remember leftwing political commentators joking about Bush bring shot and darkly hinting at the need for people to be prepared to prevent Bush leading a coup, which would be signalled by Bush trying to take their guns away

                Must be my short memory.

              • Pascal's bookie …
                11 January 2011 at 9:47 am

                Ok hs.

                Here is speech given at rally in March 08. now senator Rand Paul shared the platform at this rally, (you can see his speech in the sidebar at the link)

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4G5185jpOo

                We are the original homeland security, not the paid agents that today masquerade as such in ninja outfits, dressed in black to intimidate the people with their faces covered to keep them from being held accountable for their actions. I have even been shown proof that they consider the founding fathers like George Washington, Sam Adams and Thomas Jefferson to be the terrorists of old.

                Unless you are a member of the active military, it is your historical, constitutional and moral duty to participate in a citizen’s militia. And I’ll say this, shame on those who are either too busy or too scared or too apathetic to step up.

                The British aren’t coming. It is the Soviet socialists that have occupied our Capitol. It might as well be Moscow on the Potomac.

                The question is: do we have the courage and the spirit of our forefathers? Our people do. Today we want to tell the Marxist control freaks out there, don’t dare cross that bridge. But we know they will. We the militia, and hopefully with your support, stand ready with no apologies, cause what we have forced upon us is not from a legitimate government, or the American values of self reliance and independence. If you want to be a European, move.

                The Declaration of Independence says that when a government is no longer beneficial or responsive to the people, it is our right and duty to change it. Now some citizens are holding out hope that the upcoming elections will better things, and you know we’ll wait and see. Lots of us believe that maybe that’s not reliable, considering the fact that the progressive socialists have been chipping away at our foundations. Regardless, the founders made sure we had plan B (holds up his gun). You know what that is.

                The treasonous left wing socialist politicians, and their lapdogs in the press, have gotten a wedgie here recently in their underpants over the tea parties. And a little broken glass (wink, wink). I sure hope they’re out there today. If they read history, they should know and fear what came after those events over 200 years ago. This latest forced health care bill, which is really about people control, the same thing as gun control, is the modern day equivalent of the 1765 standback, its only more disastrous to our freedom living way of life, etc…

                History it seems is ready to repeat itself. After a long and costly civil war that is eminent, and sure to be forced upon us, we are taking note of those who are responsible for the treason, and they will be held accountable. I advise the press to start getting it right from this moment on, and stop aiding and abetting un-American activities. Like the Tories of old, the worst shall be hung, most will be exiled, and I’m a contractor so I have a little bit of tar and feathers for those who are only partially guilty.

                In closing, let me implore you to keep the torch of freedom burning bright, god bless the republic, death to the New World Order. We shall prevail.

                You keep saying that there is stuff that is the ‘same’ from the left that we are forgetting, so remind us with some links please. From equivalent figures on the left, people that got to share platforms with Senatorial candidates.

                I remember calls for the impeachment of Bush, (but not from senior Democratic party figures, more’s the pity) and I remember those calls being derided as ‘shrill’ partisan nonsense.

                Impeachment is what the constitution says should happen if a President fails to uphold his oth. The calls from the right are not for impeachment however, they are threats about revolution.

                • higherstandard …
                  11 January 2011 at 10:20 am

                  As I have said below Ron paul could charitably be called quite odd.

                  There appears to be plenty of quotes from democratic figures that are also somewhat inflammatory.

                  Obama:
                  “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
                  “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
                  “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
                  Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose tail to kick.“
                  Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

                  It’s a very odd country see some of the quotes below.

                  “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” – The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

                  “I know how the ‘tea party’ people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their ‘Obama Plan White Slavery’ signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.” – The Washington Post’s Courtland Milloy

                  My Congressman Eric Cantor, and you and your cupcake evil wife…” “Remember Eric…our judgment time, the final Yom Kippur has been given. You are a liar, you’re a Lucifer, you’re a pig, a greedy f***ing pig, you’re an abomination, you receive my bullets in…your office, remember they will be placed in your heads. You and your children are Lucifer’s abominations.” – Obama campaign contributor Norman Laboom

                  I hope we never get to the same level of vitriol in NZ, perhaps they just take politics, politicians and themselves too seriously in the US.

                  • Pascal's bookie …
                    11 January 2011 at 10:34 am

                    I was looking for actual calls/threats of armed revolution from the left that you claim exist, and links to the original sources please, rather than cut and pastes from wherever…

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    11 January 2011 at 10:55 am

                    Perhaps Sarah Palin should have been the shooter. Despite all her gunning and hunting rhetoric on the road we know that she can’t shoot the broadside of a moose at twenty paces so the Congress woman would have been quite safe.

    • Vicky32 35.2
      10 January 2011 at 7:43 pm

      Rand herself was a very dedicated atheist, and when she was alive, would have been very upset at the idea of a follower who also followed any religion! IMO, no objectivist ought to be religious – if they are, they severely misunderstand one of their belief systems, possibly both…
      Deb

  36. Draco T Bastard 36
    10 January 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Climate of Hate
    It’s an opinion piece by Paul Krugman about the shootings.

    I’ve had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since the final stages of the 2008campaign. I remembered the upsurge in political hatred after Bill Clinton’s election in 1992 — an upsurge that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. And you could see, just by watching the crowds at McCain-Palin rallies, that it was ready to happen again. The Department of Homeland Security reached the same conclusion: in April 2009 an internal report warned that right-wing extremism was on the rise, with a growing potential for violence.

    So, even Homeland Security has been warning that right-wing extremism was on the rise and would lead to violence. The right, denying reality as per normal, denounced the report and now we have had some of that violence and the right are still denying that it’s due to the vitriol that they use.

  37. The Voice of Reason 37
    10 January 2011 at 8:10 pm

    I put “loughner is a hero” in google and it didn’t take long to find a classic nutter. Reverend Fred Phelps, crawl on down:
    :

    http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/010911_westborobaptistchurch

  38. Irascible 38
    11 January 2011 at 12:21 am

    The logic of the Palin – Tea Party supporters can be seen in this circular sent to me by a GOP supporting Doctor from the States.
    Why a Doctor would take the position that this piece argues is beyond me but….. here’s the piece. It might also show the sort of thinking that inspired the shooting in Arizona.

    Need something to get your blood boiling???? Has anyone heard of this new word? Dhimmitude?

    Amish and other religious groups may be exempt from forced purchase of healthcare policies under Obama care. You know what other groups this could include ???Muslims and Christian Scientists may be exempt from having to have government healthcare.

    I had my doubts so I checked with Snopes. There is an exemption for “certain religious groups” in the Health Care Bill. Obama supporters check it out yourself.

    Had never heard the word until now—Type it into Google and start reading Pretty interesting. Note that Muslims and certain other religions are exempt from the Obamacare penalties and it is supported by law. We are surrendering from within! The prez is leading us right down the path to total Muslim control and you don’t care! Maybe you voted for him but now the truth comes out. Maybe you should rethink what you have done.

    Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to islam.

    The ObamaCare bill is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims may be specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be “gambling”, “risk-taking” and “usury” and is thus banned. Muslims may be specifically granted exemption based on this. How convenient. So I John Smith, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets, including real estate, cattle, cars and etc. and even accounts receivables, and will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance at our expence. Non-muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize muslims. Period. This is Dhimmitude.

    Dhimmitude serves two purposes: it enriches the muslim masters AND serves to drive conversions to islam. In this case, the incentive to convert to islam will be taken up by those in the inner-cities as well as the godless Generation X, Y and Z types who have no moral anchor or belief in God! If you don’t believe in Christ to begin with, it is no problem whatsoever to sell Him for 30 pieces of silver. “Sure, I’ll be a muslim if it means free health insurance and no taxes. Where do I sign, brother?” Now all you Obama voters get in line for your free stuff!…However, I suggest you don’t hold your breath!…

    I recommend sending this email to all your contacts. This is desperately important and people need to know about it and what the past election has done to all of us!

    PS Have you heard about the summit Obama is holding this month in DC for the future Muslim business leaders in the US? He wants to increase their ability to begin business opportunities in the US for the Muslim community! Better start looking for a country that doesn’t cater to the Muslims ~ Austrailia doesn’t because this country will be overrun by Muslims like Europe is currently experiencing.

    [Bunji: put in quote for readability]

    • higherstandard 38.1
      11 January 2011 at 8:39 am

      I’ll think you’ll find that’s actually a Ron Paul diatribe.

      http://www.dailypaul.com/node/140282

      • NickS 38.1.1
        11 January 2011 at 9:01 am

        Words fail to describe the shear fractal stupidity of that fully.

        And what’s really ironic is the citing of a Snopes article, which clearly states that it’s unlikely that a super majority will use the religious exemption clause, and like certain Christian sects (and cults) only a few sects will likely seek to avoid the health insurance clause…

      • Gosman 38.1.2
        11 January 2011 at 11:17 am

        I think you will find it isn’t a Ron Paul diatribe at all but one from a regular contributor to his blog.

        Just as the people involved with The Standard take a very dim view indeed of individual views being attributed to the collective I would expect your, (and others) linkage to Ron Paul to be frowned upon and perhaps even edited for correction.

        [lprent: We moderate for our cooperative and not for others. For instance we don’t try to tell the No Minister cooperative how they should run their site (pity you guys don’t follow that precept when looking at this site). Of course as individuals we do occasionally spend some time writing about what dickheads (or even rarely otherwise) some of your authors are.

        The actual request that can be asked for in this site is that the author of a comment links to quotes so others can look at the veracity. Irascible obviously didn’t because it came via e-mail (as he noted). If he’d had a link then he probably wouldn’t have quoted to the same extent because he will be aware that we’re not much into cut’n’paste. HS gave a link to it on the web. People like yourself pointed out an error in what HS said.

        That is exactly what is meant to happen – why would a moderator get involved in the normal practice of the comments section? Readers that are interested in the thread will read down and find the additional info generated in comments. ]

        • higherstandard 38.1.2.1
          11 January 2011 at 11:27 am

          If that’s the case I apologise – I do find Ron Paul a bit odd though.

        • Gosman 38.1.2.2
          11 January 2011 at 1:39 pm

          I was expecting higherstandard to edit his own comments. He has essentially done so with his apology.

  39. Irascible 39
    11 January 2011 at 3:16 pm

    The letter sent to me by the GOP supporting Doctor was unattributed by him. What is of concern to me is that an otherwise very bright and competent individual should accept the argument put forward in the circular letter and, based on that “information”, engage in a campaign to disassemble the Health Care programme Obama managed to get through the legislature.
    Given the acceptance of such a specious argument by my Doctor friend I then find it difficult to consider the actions of the individual in Arizona as those of a “mentally deranged” individual and conclude that the young man has been persuaded by the rhetoric of the Tea Party and its ilk to take the actions their logic takes them to.

Links to post

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.